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118 - Make More. Keep More. Be Smarter. Shop's Leaving Money on the Table with Derrick Van Ness
April 16th, 2025 - 00:51:31
Show Summary:
In this enlightening episode, Jimmy Lea welcomes tax and wealth strategist Derick Van Ness to help auto repair shop owners uncover overlooked strategies to save thousands on taxes every year. From foundational tactics like business structuring and paying your kids legally, to advanced moves like cost segregation and research & development (R&D) tax credits, Derick shares proven tips that can dramatically increase your financial efficiency. With humor, clarity, and decades of experience, he breaks down how shop owners can shift from reactive to proactive tax planning, and reveals how seemingly small changes can add up to $25,000+ in savings annually. The conversation also explores how financial literacy can be passed on to the next generation, and why working with the right advisor makes all the difference. If you're tired of overpaying the IRS and want smarter strategies for your business, this episode is a must-listen.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
Derrick Van Ness - Wealth Strategies, Investor, Life Adventurer at Big Life Financial
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:12] - You don’t have to keep having bad experiences with your CPA, there are better advisors and strategies out there.
[00:04:02] - Derick will show how shop owners can save at least $25,000 a year in taxes with the right strategies.
[00:06:09] - Quick self-assessment: How well do you understand taxes, and how strong is your current tax team?
[00:13:11] - The way you pay yourself, through W-2 vs. distributions, can save you thousands in self-employment taxes.
[00:14:53] - The Augusta Rule: Legally rent your home to your business for up to 14 days a year, tax-free.
[00:20:18] - Pay your kids legitimately and tax-free while teaching them financial responsibility.
[00:26:01] - Using just a few of these strategies can result in $23,000 - $31,000 in annual tax savings.
[00:30:10] - How structuring real estate ownership separately from your business can reduce taxable income.
[00:34:00] - Cost segregation accelerates depreciation and significantly increases your short-term tax write-offs.
[00:39:02] - R&D tax credits aren’t just for tech firms, they apply to innovative auto shops and can yield five-figure refunds.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5N1zO3cDAc
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: So excited to be here today with you as we are gonna have some phenomenal discussions about your business, about taxes, about the things that you'd love for your CPA to tell you, but they really won't do it.
Jimmy Lea: I've got my very good friend with me here today that we're gonna have an awesome discussion. Now, before we get into this, because this is to be an interactive. Webinar. Put into the comments whether you are watching us on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, YouTube, wherever you're watching us from today, put into the comments where you're joining us from today.
Jimmy Lea: I'd love to give you a shout out to your shop, to your business, to your location. Shop name, city State, love to give you a shout out. Thank you so much for doing that. I gotta tell you a quick little story. Two days ago I went and got my hair cut and it was probably. One of the worst haircuts that I had gotten in quite a while.
Jimmy Lea: So why am I gonna tell you that? 'cause I, you know what, haircut looks pretty good today. Yeah. Because I had to go back and get it fixed, not by the same person. I went to somebody else, I went to somebody else. I found my old stylist and I found her at the salon. And it was just a boon of a haircut because I walked in and she was there and it was like a great reunion.
Jimmy Lea: Why? Why tell you this story? Well, because you don't have to keep having bad haircuts. You don't have to keep having a bad CPA. You don't have to keep having a bad experience with your taxes, with your advisors. I wanna introduce you to a very good friend of mine, and as we have a discussion today to talk about your business and your taxes.
Jimmy Lea: My good friend is Derek VanNess. Best man at my wedding. Best man that I know. He and I, together at Fraternity Brothers way back in the day, met up our freshman year. Derrick, it's been a long time together, brother. A long time going. It has. Thank you for being here, Derrick. I'm so excited for this presentation today.
Jimmy Lea: This is information that I have not seen you present before, mixed in with a little bit that you have done before. So I'm super excited for what you've got to share with us today.
Derick Van Ness: Me too. This is gonna be fun. Very special on the day after tax day. Right? So.
Jimmy Lea: Very strategic on our part.
Derick Van Ness: Yes, it is. We were talking about that before the show here.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. So I'm gonna turn it right over to you, Derek. Everybody's cringed. Everybody's winced. Everybody's upset about having to file their taxes. They're feeling the pain. Yeah you've got a special offer for everybody here by the end of the presentation, so everybody needs to stay tuned in for that special offer.
Jimmy Lea: And Derek the floor is yours, brother.
Derick Van Ness: Well, let's do that. And just so you guys know, my commitment to you is I think I'm gonna be able to show you how to save at least $25,000 a year in taxes if you're paying that much yet because there are enough strategies out there that apply to shop owners.
Derick Van Ness: That you can do right away, that we're gonna show you how to get that kind of value. So definitely gonna be worth your time today. And I'm excited. And we're really just gonna be talking about smart tax strategies. Every shop owner needs to know, because listen, every dollar that you make is important, but every dollar you keep.
Derick Van Ness: It's the same as a new dollar you make, it stays in your bank account. Now, my disclaimer is I own, I'm a part owner in an accounting firm, but I am not a CPA myself. We have CPAs and EAs and tax professionals that do the work. But I am a tax and wealth strategist, so I know the strategy piece. I just don't file returns.
Derick Van Ness: Right. I'm obviously, I own a couple of businesses, consider myself to be a life adventurer because. Listen, that's something Jimmy and I have in common. We both love adventure. So before we get started, I just wanna do a quick tax quiz with you guys, right? And so on a quick piece of paper or in your mind, or if you don't have a place to take notes, you should do that today for sure, right?
Derick Van Ness: But I want you to write down, on a scale of one to 10, how much do you personally feel like you know about taxes? So one being I don't know anything. I show up at the shoebox and my CPA just takes care of it from there, a 10 being I should probably have my CPAI live and breathe taxes and you know, that's what we do for Christmas is give each other tax code books.
Derick Van Ness: Second question, on a scale of one to 10, how good is your tax team? Now I bring up the term team because a lot of shop owners have enough going on. That you might need more than just a tax person, right? You might need a tax attorney, you might need entity structuring or investment advisors who understand taxes.
Derick Van Ness: How good is your tax team? Once again, a one being terrible, a 10 being best of the best. The Rockefellers would be excited to hire this team. Right. And then the third one is, over the last three years, how good have you been at keeping your taxes optimized? Right. We're not talking about going into gray area or doing a bunch of crazy stuff.
Derick Van Ness: But really, like, are you proactively doing strategies that are gonna help you to reduce taxes? Once again, one being we haven't done any of that. 10 being, we're literally looking at it, you know, every single month looking for opportunities to reduce taxes. So the question with those or the thing I want you to look at is, do you like your answers?
Derick Van Ness: If you're more on the 1, 2, 3 area, there's a ton of room for improvement. If there's an 8, 9, 10, hey, we've got a job, maybe we can hire you. Right? But most shop owners I talk to are somewhere between a one and a six, right? They get their taxes done. They may know a few things, but they're really not doing a lot.
Derick Van Ness: My goal today is to help you up your game, and the reason I'm so passionate about this is I have been. Very successful in my life. Had a couple of different success stories, but, you know, where I really got passionate about this was back in 2008 up to that point from 2001 to 2008. I was a house flipper.
Derick Van Ness: I was those guys like, you know, flip this house, buy a house, fix it up, make it look cool, resell it, make more money. I know some of you do that with cars and other kinds of things. But the reality was I was making really good money. I just didn't realize at the time that I didn't know that much about taxes or finances.
Derick Van Ness: And what happened was I had a good income, but I did not have a good plan for building wealth, even though I was in real estate. Right. That seems like one of the easier places to do it. So when the oh eight came, I was unprepared. I thought I was prepared. I had a bunch of money set aside. I had a bunch of things in place.
Derick Van Ness: It was not nearly enough that tidal wave. Of the mortgage meltdown wiped me out. And at that point I became really passionate about understanding as a business owner, how do I translate my income into building wealth and taxes is a huge piece of that because quite frankly, I went from being a multimillionaire to filing bankruptcy in about 18 months and it sucked.
Derick Van Ness: And it was a really hard lesson, but it also put me on this path of helping small business owners 'cause I know so many of us, so many of you. Work so hard for your money. I wanna help you keep a lot more of what you make because efficiency matters, right? And you guys know that so already, disclaimer, I'm not a CPA.
Derick Van Ness: We do own a firm, but I don't do the filing. Okay? So what does make me a little different than a typical CPA, and this is where we're gonna start to divide, this is your typical CPA does taxes, right? They're what I would call a tax recorder. And so what that means is they, you bring your stuff to them, they take your stuff, and they basically copy it from your profit and loss onto the tax return.
Derick Van Ness: And maybe you do a couple of things with depreciation and interest write offs and so forth, and then they tell you what they owe. What we really do is we pick it up way before that, and we kind of do a lot of the work that they don't do with how do you structure your business, structure your life? I'm gonna be giving some examples as we go through this today.
Derick Van Ness: What are things that you can proactively be doing and really that gap that if you have a tax pro, you probably think they should be helping you. And all they do is do your taxes. We fill that gap, right? So we create the tax breaks rather than recording them. And we coordinate this because ultimately taxes is part of your financial life, and your financial life is part of your real life, right?
Derick Van Ness: So we wanna help that. A couple of quick statistics that I think are important here. 70% of small business owners believe they're overpaying taxes, so you can ask yourself, do I think I've had this right? My guess is if you came today, you feel like there might be room for improvement. What's wild is the real number is actually about 95% of small business owners are overpaying.
Derick Van Ness: When we've done internal audits with our firm or other firms that I've worked with. More than 95% of them were significantly overpaying taxes, and I'm not talking about a couple hundred bucks here. Typically per a hundred thousand of income we were seeing without even getting into the advanced stuff, just the basic stuff, they were overpaying $11,300 per a hundred thousand dollars of income.
Derick Van Ness: So if you make a couple hundred thousand, multiply 11,300 by two or three or four, that seems to be pretty consistent. Actually, the more money you make, the worse it gets because taxes get more expensive. But I just want you to do some mental math there real quick. If you're making a couple hundred thousand bucks, then you're probably overpaying 20,000 or more.
Derick Van Ness: And I'm gonna show you how to save that. So the three things that you need to master to build wealth, and this is going to be one of those categories, is you need to make more money. And that's where the institute comes in, right? They help you guys run your shop, be more profitable, keep more of that money that's coming through the door, but then after that, keeping more of the money you make through tax efficiency is key.
Derick Van Ness: And then something I want to encourage you to do is as you save the taxes, rather than going and buying a fancier car or a swimming pool, put that money to work and help it to start to build more income for you. So that you don't always feel like everything has to come from the business. I know a lot of shops feel that way.
Derick Van Ness: So we're gonna help you to create a bunch of money that you can then use to reinvest in the shop or to build wealth outside of it. So today's going to be more about the keep more of what you make component, right? Okay, we just went over that. So let's get right into strategies. I'm gonna cover seven or eight direct strategies that you can use this year to keep more money in your pocket.
Derick Van Ness: So the first thing I wanna talk about is how you pay yourself matters. A lot of you are doing this and a lot of you aren't. So if this doesn't apply to you, that's great, but ultimately it comes down to this. Once you're making more than about $75,000 a year there, you want to consider having some sort of entity, not just a sole proprietorship, right?
Derick Van Ness: If you have an LLC. Or you have an S-corp. The LLC can file as an S-corp, but s corporations allow you to take money that's not your W2 income, but your distributions or your, you know, the money, I call it your business income for being the business owner. And you don't have to pay the self-employment tax on that if you take it that way.
Derick Van Ness: So you pay yourself a W2 where you'll, you're gonna pay full blast on those taxes, but on the dividends or distribution income. You're going to save six, six and a half percent roughly on that money. So if you're paying yourself $250,000 a year, you take 150 thou or a hundred thousand as a W2, you get the hun other 150,000 this way, that's probably gonna save you about $10,000 in taxes.
Derick Van Ness: Just that one move. By having the right entity structure and paying yourself effectively, and this is something you wanna work with your tax pro on, like how much should be W2 and how much can you take as distributions? Some people get weigh to one side or the other. I think there's a proper way, ideally, I like to think of it this way, if the IRS or someone was to look at this and they would say, how much are you paying yourself as a W2, you'd wanna say, well, it would cost a hundred thousand dollars to replace myself with a key person in the business.
Derick Van Ness: So that's what I pay myself as a W2. Then the rest comes as my, as a result of me being a business owner. In other words, that's money that is made on top of what I would have to pay someone to do my job. Right. I've heard other CPAs say. Roughly 30% of your overall income should be taken as a W2. You can talk to your tax pro and see what they say, but if you are way outta whack on those things, one way or the other, I think you should consider it.
Derick Van Ness: 'cause it can be a pretty huge tax savings. And listen, an extra five, 10, $15,000 a year is not so bad, right? Just for doing it that way. Plus, I'm not an estate planning or entity structuring attorney, but. If you have a sole proprietorship right now, if you're not just getting started, you probably want some liability protection.
Derick Van Ness: Entities can do a great job at that and, you know, you could talk to someone about that. So, strategy number two this is something a lot of people have may have heard of. It's affectionately known as the Augusta Rule, but what it is it is a way that you can take your home and you can rent it out and the code tax code says you can rent your house out.
Derick Van Ness: Up to 14 days a year. Tax free.
Jimmy Lea: Question, Derek? Yes. Okay, hold on a second before we get into the Augusta rule. I wanna go back to strategy number one. You talked about $75,000. And I wasn't, I, my mind went way down a trail. I don't know if you said 75,000 as I pay me as an owner or as my business is making or producing 75,000 a year.
Derick Van Ness: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: What were you talking about there?
Derick Van Ness: The reason I say 75,000 is it'd be hard to hire an employee who could run your business for a lot less than that. Yeah. So at that point, it's hard to justify a W2. Too much lower. Even if you paid 'em 65 and you take 10 as dividends, like there's not a huge amounts, maybe 600 bucks of tax savings.
Derick Van Ness: But once you start getting above that, it's like, oh, I can pay myself. Let's say you get to a hundred.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Derick Van Ness: Now I can pay myself half W2 and half distributions, and the numbers are worth the change. So I feel like 75,000 is about where it really starts to make sense to use that strategy. That's why.
Jimmy Lea: And I love this Augusta rule because not only can I do this from.
Jimmy Lea: The business point of view, isn't this also something that we can do on a house?
Derick Van Ness: Well, so what you do is you actually rent your personal home, your primary residence.
Jimmy Lea: Okay?
Derick Van Ness: You rent it instead of renting it to strangers. You can rent it to your business. Right now, a lot of shop owners, very community oriented.
Derick Van Ness: They use their home anyway, right? And so they may be doing team building barbecues. They may be doing retreats or bringing their management team or their key employees to the, to, to their house. But where this really comes in is if you're already spending money. Let's say you do team building, you do holiday parties, you do trainings or retreats for your team.
Derick Van Ness: That kind of stuff. And you normally go somewhere and you rent a hotel room, like a hotel conference room, or you go to an event center, or you rent the back room at the local steakhouse or whatever. You can do those things at your house, and then your business pays you personally, just like you would've paid the restaurant to rent that back room.
Derick Van Ness: Your business pays you, and you can take that income tax free up to 14 days a year. Right now you can't pay yourself a million dollars. Right. You can pay yourself market rates. But if you say, Hey, my house, we're gonna be using 500 square feet for this, you know, for this holiday party you can look at what would it cost me to get a space that's equivalent for 505, 500 square feet.
Derick Van Ness: Yeah. And you can pay yourself that, right? And so for a lot of people, that might be a thousand, 2000 if you've got a really nice, beautiful house, it could be more than that. In your area.
Jimmy Lea: Well, especially if you spill out into the outsides and you've got parking and you've got people on the street and
Derick Van Ness: Sure.
Jimmy Lea: It does take up your whole house.
Derick Van Ness: It, it can. Right. I don't want to over exaggerate and tell people to get crazy, but the reality is what you're really using, you can, and honestly, if you wanna document it, a, you should have a real lease just like you would with any other entity. Right. Treat it like two third parties.
Derick Van Ness: That don't know each other. Yeah, do some paperwork. Obviously you don't need some kind of airtight lease because it's you renting to you or your business renting to you. But take some pictures, show that it, show what's going on. If you ever got audited or whatever. It's like, Hey, here's the pictures, here's what we did.
Derick Van Ness: It's clearly business. We've got a lease. Everything's, all the boxes are checked. But this is something, this is another way to get an extra 10 to 20 grand a year, maybe a little bit more if you've got a nice house into your h into, your personal bank account from the business tax free. And in a lot of cases, this is stuff you're already doing, you may as well get the tax breaks for it, right?
Derick Van Ness: Yeah. If you're not doing this, you can look at it and say, well, do we want to have our team retreats and other kinds of things offsite? If we do start using your house for this, you know? And you don't have to hit 14 days, but that's the limit. So obviously if you're doing this stuff, you may as well, you may as well be tax efficient, right?
Jimmy Lea: That's right.
Derick Van Ness: And that's the name of the game here. This is not about beating the IRS. This is about knowing the rules, taking a lot of the stuff you're already doing, and just doing it in a way where you can get the tax breaks, right? They want you to take tax breaks. The tax code is as big as like the Harry Potter book series.
Derick Van Ness: It's super thick, like the first 30 pages are on how you pay taxes. The other. 4,000 pages are on how you cannot pay taxes. The government uses the tax code to get you to do things. They want you to start a business. So they give you tax breaks. They want you to have kids. 'cause when people have kids, they're not so crazy and they're a little more stable, right?
Derick Van Ness: They give you tax breaks. They want you to own a home. 'cause that creates stability in the country. They give you a tax break. That's how they do this. So let's take what the government wants us to do. And let's do it in a way that works for us that we were gonna do anyway and save the taxes, right?
Derick Van Ness: Everyone calls 'em loopholes. They're not loopholes, right? Okay. Strategy number three here. Paying your kids, right? This is one that brings up, like everybody raises their hands, and I'll be honest with you, we have a whole system that we've developed teaching people how to pay your kids and then use that as a way to start educating your kids on money.
Derick Van Ness: A whole nother thing. We call it the family Fortune formula. But the idea here is you can pay your kids up to, it changes every year, but it, so I don't know what it's for twenty five, twenty five yet, but let's call it a between 13 and $14,000 a year that you can pay your kids income tax free.
Derick Van Ness: Right now. This is where this comes up. People are like, how, you know, what can my kids do for this? Because if you're going to pay your kids, they need to be earning some money for kids who are. 12 and older, they can help around the shop, they can do social media, they can file things, they can clean up, they can do a lot of that kind of stuff.
Derick Van Ness: But another thing that allows you to pay your kids is use them in your social media. Almost every shop has social media. You've got a website, you've got Instagram, you've got Facebook. You've got these kinds of things to build that community feel. Use your kids, put 'em in the pictures, have 'em hold up signs that you put stuff on.
Derick Van Ness: Get your social media team or whoever handles the marketing for the company to, to do that. Put 'em on the website. 'cause almost every shop I know, it's like a family brand, you know, it's very community oriented. So put the kids in that stuff and pay them. Like you would pay a spokes model or like you would pay a, you know, someone who's gonna be a representative for your company.
Derick Van Ness: And you can pay them that money. If you're making a lot of money, you might be paying 30, 40% or more in taxes. Your kids will pay pretty much zero. Right? Even if they make a little bit more than that. Or have to pay some payroll taxes. It's super, super low compared to it. And then let your kids, you know, if you want them to save for college, that money can go toward that.
Derick Van Ness: If they wanna pay for their own baseball or dance or music lessons or whatever they're into, you can let the kids pay for the stuff, but a much lower tax bracket of dollars. Use it as a chance to teach your kids about money. People put it into Roths, they put it into life insurance. There's a million things you can do with this, but the key is.
Derick Van Ness: How do we legally get money from the business where it's gonna be taxed at a higher tax rate into the household at a much lower tax rate or tax free. And do that in a way that's consistent, right? And I like to use it as a way to teach your kids about money anyway, but that's a whole nother thing.
Derick Van Ness: But yes, once again, if you've got three kids, you know, paying yourself, paying them 13,000, that's $39,000 that can come into the household. At a zero or a very low tax rate, that can be huge for you. Right.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and Derek, I love what you were talking there as well about teaching the kids about money.
Jimmy Lea: Uhhuh, I, a buddy of mine down in St. George, he pays his children and his children have to buy their own groceries. They have to pay for their own sports events and their own sports equipment. Yeah. So. It while he's using it in his business and he is paying the kids are paying for their own groceries.
Jimmy Lea: They're paying for their own clothing. Their own sports events. Their own sports equipment. Yep. They wanna go out, they wanna buy a, a bike. They wanna buy a new jigsaw puzzle. They wanna buy a new video game. Hey, that's great. It's your money and as long as we all approve it. Yeah. Because they have family banking going.
Derick Van Ness: Yeah. The, these are all exactly what I'm talking about. And you can take it to the next level. Have your kids saving for their own college and planning for that. Have your kids doing their own investments and different kinds of things, even if it's at a small level to get the experience, because these are all super valuable experiences and you can take a lot of what you know
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Derick Van Ness: As a business owner and pass it on to your kids. Right. And it means something when it's their money.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. It was eye-opening to discover how willing they were to spend my money and how frugal they were to not spend their own.
Derick Van Ness: Yeah. It's great. Right? It changes the whole conversation and listen, I know a lot of people, they don't have their finances totally together, so they're a little bit afraid to like include their kids on some of this stuff, but.
Derick Van Ness: You gotta start somewhere. And this is a great place to give them a chance to have a real world experience. And like you said, Jimmy, they have to make the decisions. Not you, do I buy this or do I buy that? If I want a new car, I've gotta save up for it. Whatever it is. These kinds of things really start to matter and if you can teach them at an early age, they're just miles ahead of other people.
Derick Van Ness: So, so, yeah, getting the kids involved. So strategy number four, and we've all heard of this, right? As a home office. Now I bring this one up partially 'cause there's a little bit of a tax break there. But the big question is something like a home office, a red flag? And the reality is if you're lying about it, it's not a red flag.
Derick Van Ness: You're just lying, right? I don't want you to lie or make stuff up on your taxes. If you have a real home office, like quite frankly, I'm working from a home office. I literally have a lighting setup in here and cameras, and I've got all the screens and all the stuff. This is a home office. Write off. If you have a laptop in your bedroom, probably doesn't count, but if you're really using your home space, dedicated space for your home office, then you can write it off, right?
Derick Van Ness: It's not going to be a huge part, but generally how it works is, let's say your office is. 400 square feet and your house is 2000, right? So that's 20% of your house is your office. Then you can write off 20% of your costs, of your mortgage, right? I bring this one up, not because it's a huge tax saver, but if you are doing it, you can write it off, right?
Derick Van Ness: It's not a red flag if you're really doing it. But the bigger thing is, if you're really doing these things, you can write them off. And if you're not, you shouldn't. And some of them, it might encourage you to do certain things. But I want you to be aware that you don't need to be afraid if you're really legitimately doing something of writing it off, right?
Derick Van Ness: So that's the bigger point here. But this can save, you know, a couple thousand bucks a year depending on how big your office is and how big your mortgage is. So, so if you just use these three strategies, right? And I've kind of given a range here based on your tax bracket, but if you know, if you did a salary versus owner's draw took a hundred thousand of that.
Derick Van Ness: As passive versus W2, that'd save you 7,500 bucks. If you did the Augusta rule at 1250 a, you know, a day for 14 days, that would save you between 52 and $7,800 depending on your tax bracket. The average family has 2.5 kids, so I went with 2.5 kids, right? $30,000 coming into your household, depending on your tax bracket, that's gonna be between nine and $13,000, and then a home office.
Derick Van Ness: 500 bucks a month, that's $6,000 a year. You get to write off that could be between 1,820 600. So if you look at that at the bottom, that's 23 to $31,000 a year just by using these really basic strategies that apply to almost everybody, almost all the time. Right? And I realize that 23 to $30,000 one time isn't gonna totally change your life, but here's the thing.
Derick Van Ness: You can do this every year. Most people I meet aren't even saving that much money. So if you can just take this outta what you were gonna give to Uncle Sam, leave it in your bank account and now put that money to work and add it to what you were already going to save anyway. Suddenly you can just massively supercharge the amount of money you've got working for you, or the amount of money that you have to build your shop or add to it or hire that extra employee or put it into marketing or a million other things.
Derick Van Ness: Or one of the best things is run your shop better, right? Work with someone like the institute and learn how to be more profitable. You can do this every single year. Over the next 20, 30 years. I mean, we're talking about half a million to a million dollars. That's a lot of money. So just that alone, everybody can do.
Derick Van Ness: Now we're gonna get into some other strategies here that may not apply to everyone every time, but will apply to a lot of shop owners based on the hundreds that we've worked with. So I want to jump into that. I think this is such a great one. If you've started making good money. A lot of people ask their CPA, what do I do?
Derick Van Ness: How do I save taxes now that I'm making a couple hundred thousand or more? And the CPA usually says, just get used to paying more taxes. Right. That's not true. There's a ton of things you can do. We won't get into everything today, but but we're gonna, we're gonna tackle a couple more here, right? The first one is, as often as you can, you want to turn active income.
Derick Van Ness: To passive income. So what's the difference? Active income is like that W2 income, right, that you pay full blast on. Passive income is taxed at a lower rate, more like your di dividends, but also has the ability to be written off against against passive losses. So this is, this comes into play a lot with how you structure your entities and a lot of times if you have real estate.
Derick Van Ness: It gets into this, right? So how you structure your entities can allow a lot of income to become passive. So the most common example of this is if you own your shop real estate, and I know a lot of shop owners do, instead of you having the same entity own the business and own the shop, and all the money just goes in one bucket and it comes through to you for taxes, if you have the business.
Derick Van Ness: Have an entity and the real estate have an entity, the business will pay the real estate company. And then you still get the income from the real estate company. But now that income is passive, so it's taxed differently and you can take the depreciation from the shop and you can write it off against that income.
Derick Van Ness: So it makes a lot of that income feel like it's tax free. Right? So here's an example of how I would structure that. The business pays the W2 income. The owner's distribution into, we call it a wealth reservoir 'cause I think it's worth it too. Instead of just paying it straight into your living account, you pay it in here, then you put the money into your account that you spend out of.
Derick Van Ness: So that way if you're got extra, it stays here instead of coming over here and burning a hole in your pocket. And then of course, everybody should save. We're not going crazy into all of that, but the money that for the real estate company comes here and it's paid as passive income into that. So it ends up in the same place.
Derick Van Ness: Now you can take losses against it, like the real estate company gets to depreciate the value of the real estate. We're gonna talk in a minute about how to accelerate some of that depreciation, but it can make a huge difference in how much of that money you get to keep, right. So this is a very simple version of how you can structure entities and how you pay yourself that's going to allow you to keep more money.
Derick Van Ness: And once again, if we just do some simple math here. Let's say you're paying. 5,000 bucks a month for the shop. That's $60,000. That's passive income. Let's say the shop is a million dollar building. You get to write that off over 39, 39 and a half years. So you get like $25,000 a year of depreciation.
Derick Van Ness: So now you're only gonna pay that first $25,000 that you get as the 60 grand of income. You aren't gonna pay taxes on it. It's gonna be offset by the losses. So you're only gonna pay taxes on like 35. Now that's really. Basic math, but I want you to see that first 25 grand basically feels like it's tax free because of the depreciation that you get to use it against.
Derick Van Ness: So hopefully that made sense that I didn't go to make it too convoluted. Right? And this works if you own any kind of commercial real estate. It's a good strategy. So now what's even better is if you have, like in that case you have 60,000 of income, but you only have $25,000 of write-offs. There's a strategy to accelerate depreciation on real estate.
Derick Van Ness: And I would say if you've owned your shop for less than I'd say seven or eight years, this is a really powerful strategy. As long as the shop's worth more than a couple hundred thousand, the real estate itself what cost segregation is it's taking your costs of your real estate and you're breaking it up into pieces, right?
Derick Van Ness: You're segregating it out in layman's terms. What happens here is you take the shop. And it's classified as real estate, but you have someone come through, usually it's an engineer and there are companies that do this and we can refer you to someone if you don't, you know, don't wanna go find your own person.
Derick Van Ness: They come through and they classify as much of the building as they can, as equipment. Instead of real estate. So all the build out the garage doors, the plumbing if you've got AC units, all these kinds of things that are a huge part of the value of the real estate, not the structural component, but a lot of the other stuff can be classified as equipment.
Derick Van Ness: That equipment can be depreciated much faster, right? Maybe 5, 7, 10, 15 years. It is not that you necessarily get more depreciation, it's just if you can get depreciation and keep the money today instead of 30 years from now, that's worth a lot. You get to use that money, grow that money, put it to work in your business, a lot of other things.
Derick Van Ness: So this is a strategy where you get that depreciation faster. And once again, if you can do cost segregation, maybe you get to write off that whole $60,000 against passive losses. Instead of only 25,000 of it. Right. So that's another 35 grand you're not paying taxes on, or you're paying a lot less tax on because you've accelerated the depreciation.
Derick Van Ness: Right. So I know there's a lot of probably numbers and things going through your head. I just really want to open you up to the idea that there's a lot of stuff out there. That is not proactively being brought to the table. Like I think every tax pro should be talking to you. And if you have real estate, they should at least be bringing up cost segregation.
Derick Van Ness: If they're not bringing this up, and lemme tell you this is a pretty obvious one then you gotta wonder what else they might be missing. Right? So passive, the key here is passive losses can only work against passive income. And this is important because. Let's say you do cost segregation. You get $120,000 worth of write-offs, but you only have 60,000 of passive income.
Derick Van Ness: You can only use it against that 60,000. It doesn't do anything against your W2. So as often as we can, we want to take money and shift it from active income to passive income, it will allow you to get a lot more of these losses, and that's just something a lot of people don't know is you can't take that depreciation against your regular income.
Derick Van Ness: So, so we wanna find legal and ethical ways to shift it whenever we can. Strategy number seven, and this is something we've done for a ton of shop owners, is the research and development credits. Now, there's been some interesting things. We did research and development credits for a long time, and then in 2022 the rules changed just a little bit.
Derick Van Ness: The credits are still there, but there's a little bit of an offset short term on those. We actually think that's going to change. With this new tax rewrite that's going on right now basically it got kind of screwed up with the tax rewrite from 2017. It took place in 2022, and for the last two or three years, we've just had a lot of people sitting on the sidelines.
Derick Van Ness: But here's the good news, with research and development credits, especially if they changed the tax code, you can go back and claim this. You can also go back and claim depreciation like cost segregation in arrears so you can actually get money back from the IRS. We've done this for a ton of shop owners, and even if it doesn't get changed, it still continues to produce credits for you.
Derick Van Ness: You just have to understand the little bit of offset that happens in the first couple of years that you do it. But at the end of the day, you end up getting the same amount of credits. So I want to talk through this real quick because it's a really powerful strategy that almost no tax firms are doing, right?
Derick Van Ness: This is something that came about in the eighties, so this isn't like some new thing. This isn't like one of those CO credits or whatever. This is a completely different thing that basically the government wants you to be innovative in what you do. Or people who create new products, they want you to bring those into your business so that you can continue to improve.
Derick Van Ness: So these actually were established in 1981 to help American automakers compete with a lot of the foreign cars. And they wanted to make sure that the US companies tried new stuff, essentially, right, to keep it really simple and and did research and development. So they said, we'll give you credits if you do that.
Derick Van Ness: It changed a lot over the years, but ultimately it comes down to these four questions. This is called the four part test, and I won't get too deep into the weeds, but basically is it for a permitted or qualified purpose? Which really means are you trying to improve something? Are you looking to develop or improve a product or a process?
Derick Van Ness: As shop owners, I know that you're always looking at. How do we bill faster? How do we, you know, quote better? How do we figure out how to get in front of people more effectively? How do we improve our communications and follow up? How do we use better equipment for better diagnostics, more accuracy? All of these kinds of things.
Derick Van Ness: Anything in that realm is probably going to qualify for improving your service or your process. Right. Does it reduce technological uncertainty, really? Are you looking to get more consistent outcomes when you run a diagnostic or when you're trying to figure out what's going on with someone's car?
Derick Van Ness: Do you get the right answer more often? Right. Is it more certain? Almost everything you do is probably working that direction, especially in the shop. Is there a process of experimentation? In other words, is this new to your business? And this is a big misconception. People think it needs to be new to the world.
Derick Van Ness: It doesn't. It just needs to be new to your business, right? So if you're bringing in something new and is it technological in nature? Does it use engineering, computer science, biology, or physical science? You guys obviously have a ton of engineering and computer science that goes into a lot of what you do.
Derick Van Ness: So if you're buying new equipment, if you're trying new processes, if you're adding new software or creating custom software, there's probably credits on the table for you. And most shops we look at that's happening. Now, these credits, the more you make, the bigger they get. But I think it really starts to make sense to look at it if you're doing 500,000 of top line revenue, right, or gross revenue, and if you're paying more than $10,000 in taxes, you are probably big enough that these credits will add up to something.
Derick Van Ness: It's not that you can't do them if they're smaller, it's just not necessarily worth the work. Usually shops if they're less than two years open, they probably aren't big enough or making enough money. There are exceptions, so you could still qualify but usually it's for shops that are a little more established.
Derick Van Ness: 'cause usually the first year or two, you have a ton of write-offs. You didn't pay taxes, so there's no credits to get that money back for. Right. Couple quick examples of shops. We had a an MSO up in Minnesota. It was two brothers. They got about $171,000 when we did a three year look back in their RD refund.
Derick Van Ness: So ton of money, four shops, pretty awesome stuff. Another one in New Hampshire, they had a couple of auto shops. They got about $31,000, so about 10 grand a year. And then we had someone with a little, you know, a little bigger single shop in Oklahoma. He got $26,000. You know, so these guys are getting between 2030.
Derick Van Ness: Thousand dollars a year type of type of credits for a typical size shop. We do have some bigger shops, you know, 2 million plus that are getting a lot more than that per year. So the question I wanna ask you is, I mean, when we're looking at this, $25,000 a year for the first four or five strategies, 10 to $15,000 for r and d credits.
Derick Van Ness: Plus if you own the real estate. I mean, what would that kind of money every single year do for your life? Right? An extra 30, 40, $50,000 that you just don't have to give Uncle Sam, because you can write it off, right? You can use the tax code in your favor, and ultimately it's not how much you make.
Derick Van Ness: I hear people brag about this all the time. I mean, I have a client, he's in California. California is a high tax state as you know. He made 1,000,002, he paid nearly $600,000 in taxes, you know, and he wanted to complain about it like it was a badge of honor. It was terrible, right? Who wants to give $600,000 to Uncle Sam?
Derick Van Ness: So it's not about how much you make, it's about how much you keep, and that's the golden rule, right? How much gold do you get to keep? So. I think it's pretty clear that these could be worth $25,000 or more per year. And I'll be honest with you, especially if you make over $400,000 a year, there is a ton of stuff you can do.
Derick Van Ness: 'cause at that point you get into some pretty big tax brackets. So adding a little more complexity is totally worth it. But even for those of you who are newer in business, you know, this could easily be worth 20, 25, $30,000 a year, every single year for as long as you're in business. So. Those are the key things I wanted to cover today.
Derick Van Ness: 'cause we didn't want to go too long and maybe leave a few minutes for questions. But if you're curious to see how much have you been overpaying Because of our affiliation with the the institute and our relationship, we're willing to do a free three year tax review to explore what have you been overpaying.
Derick Van Ness: I'm not gonna tell you that we can go back and claim all that for you. There may be things like the RD credits like. Honestly, you know, if you've been in business for a while, we can still go back and claim 2021 and it's super clean for the next six months or so, and maybe help you get 10, 15, $20,000 back depending on the size of your shop.
Derick Van Ness: Depreciation is another one we can go back on. But the bigger thing for you is if you've been overpaying in the past, how do we help you to not overpay in the future? Right. Even if we start from here, forward 2025, and you can keep an extra 20, 30, 40, $50,000 a year, that's a ton of money. Where I come from that makes, I mean, they'll pay for your kids' college that'll pay for, I jokingly call it a government sponsored retirement plan, right?
Derick Van Ness: Because it's the tax loopholes, the tax opportunities they're giving you that you're using. To pay for your retirement. So all you gotta do is scan the QR code or you can see the link down here at the bottom. It's just big life financial.com/the-institute. You can just sign up there, you'll meet with myself or someone from my team.
Derick Van Ness: We'll gather your tax returns. We'll go through 'em with a fine tooth comb, and we'll give you an exact number of how much. And we actually do a range of high to low, like if you did everything or if you just did some things. How much is on the table? I think if you're overpaying, if you're paying 10 or $15,000 or more in taxes, it's definitely worth looking at, you know, so that's our gift to you is we'll do all the work for free, and if we can save you a bunch of money, great, you can take that.
Derick Van Ness: You can go to your existing tax person or you know, if you feel like you really want someone more proactive, we can talk about what that looks like. But I think it's important for you to know if you're massively overpaying taxes. I want you to keep a lot more of that money. It just makes such a huge difference over time if you can keep that much more money.
Jimmy Lea: This is huge. Derek, this is amazing and thank you for putting this up there. An offer to review the last three years. Everybody that's watching this. You need to scan the QR code, scan it now, scan it and get on Derek's calendar so that you can have this conversation. Now, Derek, here's a interesting question for you.
Jimmy Lea: I meet with a lot of shop owners Sure. And we talk about taxes, we talk about accountants, we talk about what's working for other shops around the country. And one of the interesting questions that I'm asked by a lot of shop owners is there a list of items. Statements, financial statements, concepts, ideas that I should have on a piece of paper that when I come to my tax advisor, they're able to advise me better because I'm listing out things that they might not think to ask.
Jimmy Lea: Is there a list of items that we can bring to a tax advisor?
Derick Van Ness: Yeah, so there, there are definitely a topic or topics that we cover all the time, right? Equipment's a huge one. So any equipment you have purchased or any equipment you're looking at, purchasing and making sure you're doing that optimally is a key one.
Derick Van Ness: Anything once you understand the RD credits that's related to new technology, new advancements. Different things you're bringing into your shop, being sure that you keep track of that along the way can be super, super proactive and really help to optimize those credits. And then anything else you're looking at investing in like real estate or buying additional shops.
Derick Van Ness: I know you guys work a lot with that. Planning those things out in advance because then you can optimize, Hey, we don't need to be paying so much in quarterlies 'cause we're gonna take, you know, we're gonna buy a bunch of equipment, we won't have any taxes due this year. We're gonna get those write offs.
Derick Van Ness: No reason to pay that into Uncle Sam and then have to wait a year to get it back. Right? Yeah. So just being aware of what's really happening. And I think in a perfect world, you wanna meet with your tax pro, I would say three to four times a year throughout the year, so that you can bring these questions up, they can help you to structure things and think about them and make informed decisions along the way.
Derick Van Ness: We don't have a specific, like we have. Forms that we use with our tax reviews and with our quarterly meetings, but we don't have a specific checklist of like, what should you be prepared to bring to your person? But I'm sure we could put something together.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I'd love for us to put something together, Derek, because what is second nature to you?
Jimmy Lea: Seems to be. Groundbreaking to 95% of other businesses or other accountants or other bookkeepers. They don't understand that. And Shayla, there you go. There's the QR code again for you, so you can scan that and get on Derek's calendar. Yeah, Derek I think we ought to create something because Yeah, it's second nature to you.
Jimmy Lea: It's groundbreaking to everybody else. So I think we ought to come up with something and maybe that's our follow up email. We can send a list that people can bring to their accountants or tax advisors to start the conversation because they if I come to my CPA and I say, Hey, I want to take advantage of the Augusta rule, and they say.
Jimmy Lea: What's that?
Derick Van Ness: Right, right.
Jimmy Lea: Chances are you might not be talking to the right person.
Derick Van Ness: Well, and what I see that's more common, Jimmy, is you go to them and you're like, Hey, can we do this thing? And they're like, oh yeah, we can totally do that. And you're like, well, why haven't you been telling me? Right. I hear that all the time.
Derick Van Ness: 'cause we tell people strategies and they take it to their person. Their person's like, oh yeah, that'd be great. You should totally do that. And we're like, where's this guy been the last 10 years? And so, and then you start to wonder if they're missing this, what else are they missing? You know, that, that starts to really leak in and truly, you know, to defend CPAs and tax people, most of them have been trained to file taxes on time and accurately.
Derick Van Ness: It's not, yeah they're not trained when they get their CPA and when they go to school to save you taxes. They're trained to record accurately and on time. And so sometimes I think we're expecting too much of them. We think it's their job, but a lot of them don't think it's their job. So, you just, you have to kind of separate, Hey, strategy and recording are actually two different jobs.
Derick Van Ness: Some CPAs, some tax pros are proactive and are strategy driven. A lot of them are not, especially if they don't own their own business. And they're just like working at a firm. Yeah. They just they, you know this, you're a business owner. You think differently as a business owner than you do as an employee.
Derick Van Ness: So I'm not trying to bust on these guys. I'm just saying it doesn't serve you well as a business owner if you don't have somebody who understands this and is really looking out for you from an advice perspective, not just a recording perspective.
Jimmy Lea: So true. So true. Thank you, Derek. Any questions, comments, concerns from those who are listening to this live?
Jimmy Lea: Go ahead and put them into the chat. This will be available on YouTube. It'll be available on Facebook and on our website. We are the institute.com. Of course. You wanna get ahold of Derek VanNess? He is At Big Life. You're at big life financial.com.
Derick Van Ness: That's correct. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. So let's get in touch with him.
Jimmy Lea: I know a few shop owners that have worked with you and a few, I mean, quite a few that are working with you and have taken that up to that next level.
Derick Van Ness: Yep, yep. I mean, we've had a couple of shop owners who have saved six figures in taxes. Obviously they run pretty big shops and have good things going on, but the reality is the opportunities are there for people who are interested in it.
Derick Van Ness: For sure. And the more you make, the more you can save. 'cause they just, they get more expensive.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that's awesome. And thank you Crystal. She, thanks for the information. Be reaching out. They have records. Nobody can really answer questions.
Jimmy Lea: Come to Derek Crystal. I think you'll be very happy with the information you get.
Jimmy Lea: I have yet to hear anybody who was not pleased. That's not true. I think they're upset. They're upset that they just barely got introduced to you. Where have you been for my last 10 years of business? That's the question they're asking because the strategies that you have and that you put into place with these shop owners is life changing.
Jimmy Lea: And I applaud you, and thank you for doing that. Thank you for working in the automotive industry. I'm so glad that we were able to recruit you away from anything chiropractic or doctors or whatever it is you were doing for that. You are in the automotive world. I'm glad that this is such a good fit for you, man.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
Derick Van Ness: Me too. Loved working with shop owners and just appreciate the opportunity to share this stuff, jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: You're awesome. Well, thank you very much. Thank you everybody for joining. And make sure you connect with Derek. Get on his calendar, big life financial.com/the-institute.
Jimmy Lea: Get onto his calendar so we can get some things going here. And thank you to everybody watching live. Thank you very much. We'll see you again soon.
Derick Van Ness: Thanks, Jimmy.

Monday Apr 07, 2025
117 - Becoming a Champion in Communication with David Boyd
Monday Apr 07, 2025
Monday Apr 07, 2025
117 - Becoming a Champion in Communication with David Boyd
April 2nd, 2025 - 01:00:14
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea welcomes David Boyd from Inbound to discuss how technology, communication flow, and consistent training shape the customer experience in auto repair shops. They explore how shop owners can use AI to streamline call reviews, build advisor confidence, and ensure consistent, high-quality interactions with customers. David shares the importance of shifting from rigid scripts to natural, process-driven call flows, and how shop owners can better define their expectations and measure performance. Together, they emphasize the power of call analysis, customer journey awareness, and daily coaching to drive shop success. The conversation wraps with a live demo of Inbound’s AI tool and thoughts on the future of AI in customer communication.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
David Boyd - Founder & CEO of Inbound
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:08] – David shares his passion for improving communication in the independent automotive repair industry.
[00:03:13] – Call flow should define expectations, build confidence, and lead to customer satisfaction.
[00:04:00] – The biggest challenge in call coaching is finding the right calls to review.
[00:05:48] – Using AI to pre-screen and identify meaningful calls saves time and improves coaching.
[00:07:06] – Scripting is outdated; teaching flow and natural conversation is more effective.
[00:09:12] – Advisors must be trained in communication and soft skills, especially with a younger workforce.
[00:14:05] – Calls must build trust and credibility within the first 15 to 30 seconds.
[00:18:43] – Every customer interaction is an opportunity to create a lifelong customer.
[00:26:06] – Normalizing call reviews improves team performance and builds comfort over time.
[00:51:01] – A live demo shows how Inbound’s tool identifies coachable and champion calls instantly.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kk2jVaCR8s
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
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________________________________________
Jimmy Lea: Welcome. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening or good night, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. Thank you very much. I'm excited to be here. David Boyd is coming into us from Minneapolis, Minnesota. Minneapolis, Minnesota.
David Boyd: That's correct. Minneapolis.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Glad you're here. David, this is going to be awesome.
David Boyd: I am enjoying our fresh blanket of snow outside in Minneapolis. So for those of you, Cindy, I think you got a little bit up in Alaska. And, thanks for sending that down to Minnesota. But for the rest of you around the country that aren't familiar with snow, let me just tell you, it's, a real, sad event in April to have a fresh layer of snow hit the ground.
David Boyd: So, thank you, everybody, for joining today. Our our content is going to be very exciting, and I'm glad that we can share it. I've visited with Jamie before where we've talked about, communication and I of course, I'm in the communication industry. And with inbound we focus exclusively on the independent automotive repair industry. So I work with, many, many of your peers across the country, and we talk about, communication and the various aspects of communication to drive growth and, to drive training.
David Boyd: And so it's something I'm very passionate about. And I'm glad that, you're able to join us today. So we have a great line up for you today. We're going to talk about, how to get started with, you know, a communication plan. What is coaching and training look like? What is call reviewing look like? Some of you are likely doing that today.
David Boyd: And there are areas and opportunities to improve as you move down that path. We'll talk about a call flow. There's a, dirty word that we used to use in the industry called a script. And, I'd like to, you know, read rethink that terminology because it speaks to how we look at, the communication process.
David Boyd: I'm a process guy. I come from a background of process engineering and corporate America. So I look at things as process flow. And, we'll talk a little bit more about what that is, what is a call flow. And as we look at, creating this process and moving down the path of this process, we want to, define aspects and clarity, develop confidence for your team, and ultimately drive customer satisfaction.
Jimmy Lea: So, David, thank you for filling in. A couple of shout outs to, inbound from Todd. Todd says he loves inbound, so thank you very much, Todd. And, Ed chair is joining us from Las Vegas. Thank you, chair, for being here. The super awesome. Glad you're here. So David, to your point about call tracking and call scripts and call.
Jimmy Lea: I've listened to hundreds of thousands of phone calls. I can tell you right away why it is a phone call was not successful, why it did not connect, why it did not close a deal, it because of the thousands and thousands and thousands of phone calls that I've listened to. That's also the challenge. David. Finding the call. Right.
Jimmy Lea: So previous life coaching and training with sales skills and customer service skills at a at a former company. And we had to go in and find the calls. So if you rely on your person that you're coaching to send you the calls, it doesn't happen. Send me a good one. Send me a bad one. It generally those that are good for the coaching, that that want to succeed and want to progress, they're the ones that will send you the calls.
Jimmy Lea: Those are the ones that don't. They? I'm being forced to do this. I really don't want to do it. It's a totally different experience. And so I would love to talk to you about your program, because it is so cool what you have done in your process procedures, in your advancement, in your technology. Yeah, you're a nerd when it comes to this as well.
Jimmy Lea: And I say that nerd in a loving, kind and generous and respectful way that you are amazing. Thank you. You've done this work and this coding to get there. So the first thing I'd love to talk about is. Oh, and a quick shout out to Christopher Johnson, Southern Ontario. Christopher, thank you for being here. You're awesome. To the phone calls.
Jimmy Lea: Your system has an amazing method and an amazing way of finding those phone calls and identifying a closed deal, or a closed opportunity, or a missed opportunity. What does that look like? What are you doing?
David Boyd: We're really using technology and it's a great point. You you've touched on so many, parts that, every, every owner I talk with wants to do call reviews and training and coaching, but they also acknowledge that there's this heavy lift of time. It's always the time. And you talked about the scenario where the service advisor may send in the, call examples to the coach.
David Boyd: Well, if they do it, you know, they, they may be softballs. Right? So, they're going to self-select something that isn't that bad. And we miss that opportunity. So assuming that we understand what we're trying to accomplish in the coaching process, and I do want to make sure that we cover that as well. We want to make sure that we have the ability to very quickly get to effectively, you know, pre-qualified, meaningful calls for this coaching review process, something that, has evaluated the call.
David Boyd: We use technology. Now AI is everywhere, right? So how we utilize AI to evaluate key performance indicators in a call to evaluate key insights. I can be used in a positive light to help us reduce that heavy lift of time required to listen to call after call after call, and very quickly get to something that would be effectively prescreened or pre-qualified to benefit our call coaching and review process with the service advisor.
Jimmy Lea: What? So no question for you in that process. And I love the AI is involved in this. It is a when it comes to a script, I've always thought that you should memorize the script and then couple it up and throw it away. You don't want to sound robotic. You don't want to sound like you're reading a novel or, write a script to somebody nobody wants to be read to.
Jimmy Lea: But let's have a conversation. Can the AI, can your software can your program identify? Is the service advisor following the pattern that we've established?
David Boyd: Yeah. And you've in that statement you've asked two questions there. One is are we doing a script anymore. And at the, at the risk of, of upsetting maybe people that are holding tight to their script. I'm sorry in advance. Scripting is, I think, a little bit antiquated, where we really want to train to the flow so that it isn't robotic and it doesn't become this.
David Boyd: I need to, you know, did it, did it, and go step by step through this process. The, the flow of the call now becomes, really the important aspect of what we want to evaluate. So and I like that that was that flow and understand what is the context of the conversation. And that's now where, the tools and technology can help us.
David Boyd: They're very powerful in this regard because that, that is much like having a person sit on the call. Yeah. And listen to it and review it from that standpoint instead of, was this word spoken in this order in this sequence that's can still be evaluated. We may want to hit those key performance indicators, but it needs to be a little bit more natural.
David Boyd: So we want to identify who I am and who the customer is called. We want to know who they are and how did they hear about us. And we want to go through this flow, but it can be very much conversational. You and I can just sit down and have a conversation. I can get to know you. Now we're developing a relationship, right?
David Boyd: And we're communicating rather than me going through the checklist of how I check these aspects off of my script.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. And I think a lot of the, service advisors that you are analyzing or the that are part of your program have gone through an extensive phone training program so that they now know the flow of what to do. There's an entire generation now that would rather text than talk, right? I think there's an entire generation that has lost the soft skills of how to answer the phone properly, how to greet a customer, how to acknowledge.
Jimmy Lea: And so, I agree with you. It's the flow. Let's back up a couple steps. We've got to teach a script first for you to follow, and then crumpled up, throw it away and now you've got the flow. Now it's just bullet points, and you're able to do it because you know the right words to say in the right order to say them.
Jimmy Lea: But it's not scripted. It's now conversation.
David Boyd: Yes. And even prior to this, it starts with the owner's expectation. So does the owner have a clear understanding, an idea of what they want to accomplish and call handling? Who are they hiring to be in the front office and represent the face of that business to the customer? Assuming that somebody is calling and and overwhelmingly, people are still calling today, they may text at some point in the interaction, but they are absolutely calling.
David Boyd: And the people that we hire and have on the front counter now, we need to understand emotionally, which is funny to talk about in this context, but emotionally, where are they coming from? Do they even do they even feel comfortable talking on the phone? Right. So if I hire a younger service advisor, as you mentioned, they may be coming from an upbringing that doesn't have this type of, interaction.
David Boyd: So thinking through a conversation may not be natural. So that might be part of our training. The owners need to understand and acknowledge that's the case. Do I need to go out and get some third party help to help with this? This is something that we're going to do ourselves. Ultimately, we still have to have that basis of understanding.
David Boyd: What do I want to accomplish as the owner? And then, here are the things that I want covered the script, as you say. And here's how we want this to go. Well, we'll talk to this, will train to this so that we have a core understanding. Now, this is going to go away. And we're going to talk about communication, and, and personal interaction.
David Boyd: That's where we get into the call flow that it does become a logical progression. It starts with the owner. And of course, if they don't have a, sense or concept of what call training can be and should be, there are plenty of helpers out there, like contact Jimmy at the Institute. You got a camera over there just to touch.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
David Boyd: And, you know, I work very, very closely with. Yeah. Make the noise as well to go with it. Gotta get Mark and the crew, that do a lot of call coaching with the Institute. Just fantastic. So getting the business process nailed down is a core, competency for the owner to have as well.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it is 100%, because there's a lot of people that can't talk on the phone or. And here's where I discover those that can't talk on the phone. Oh, can't. Wrong word. Those who are intimidated by the phone. It generally comes down to two things. One is training. Have they been trained that phone is the most powerful tool in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: It's more powerful than the air gun, more powerful than the the lift in the back, more powerful than the engine hoist. It is what determines if the vehicle comes into the shop or not. So the most powerful tool is the phone. Are you certified to operate that phone? Most people that are intimidated haven't been trained, so they don't understand the basics of what needs to be done there, and that's where they need training.
Jimmy Lea: The institute can definitely step in. Mark Seawell, phenomenal program for the APG. The advisor performance group. We call that the APG phenomenal program. The advisors that graduate from this program are, by far the best in the industry. So that being said, the second reason somebody is not confident on the phone goes into their mindset. And it could be that their self-esteem, their self-confidence, they've been just hammered so much with the no, no, no, the negative, the slammed phones, the yelling, the screaming.
Jimmy Lea: Their mindset isn't right. Well, that's a whole other course on a different subject, you probably can't test for mindset with inbound communications.
David Boyd: Kenya mindset is is not something that we can test, but we can look at other aspects of the call because that's really our ability to overcome objections. Yeah. And we can evaluate that. And if somebody has a tendency to cower back when an objection is met, right. They may not know how to overcome an objection. So this becomes a turning point.
David Boyd: And these are the parts that we learn as we as we, you know, have consistency in our review process over time. What is the capacity of my service advisor to handle calls for them to recognize where they're at in the conversation, to control that conversation, have ownership use their own sales skills, and we can develop sales skills.
David Boyd: We can teach how to overcome objections. And these are key components that help us make sure that, you know, we are understanding the customer because, I mean, when we think back, there's the cliche, right? When a customer calls the shop and they don't know what to ask, what are they going to ask? How much?
Jimmy Lea: How much is it?
David Boyd: How much is it? Right. And how many times to service advisors hear that? Well, if we change this mindset just by a simple understanding that that only means that my customer needs to be educated, right? So now that's my job. I'm an advisor, I will advise, so let me understand more. Why do you think you need XYZ. And we're going to we're going to flow into this conversation.
David Boyd: I'm going to take ownership of this of this call. I'm going to ask open ended questions. I'm going to overcome these objections. And ultimately I'm going to get them to agree to come in and, visit with my ask certified technician. And we're going to take care of them. So we're going to build this confidence. We're going to develop this relationship.
David Boyd: All of these things can happen, you know, in fact, they should be happening to establish credibility within maybe the first 15 to 30s of this call. Right. We want to make sure that we're controlling this or we're not going to go down this other path. Right. The other problem that we see and we can test for and call analysis is things like diagnosing over the phone.
David Boyd: That's a whole separate webinar. Right. So let's maybe not go down that path today and, we can have Mark join us for that one.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. For sure. Yeah. There's just so many stories coming up in my mind as you talk about these, service advisor skills in the questions that can be asked or should be asked, my brother called up the shop and said, hey, I want all new shocks and struts. Sure. We got you booked in today at 2:00. Come on down.
Jimmy Lea: That that that that one simple question. What makes you think you need new shocks and struts? Because my brother left the shop, went around the block, came back in and said, you didn't fix my car. Yeah. We replace all the new shocks and stress. There's four of them. They're brand new. Come here. We'll show you what's going on.
Jimmy Lea: What's wrong? Well, the. It shakes. The whole truck is shaking as I'm driving down the street. Oh. Let's go look at your tires. You needed all new tires. You had a big old bubble on one of his tires. Simple question. Would have avoided that. Whose fault is that? Is it my brother's for saying, hey, I want new shocks.
Jimmy Lea: It struts. Or is it the service advisor who should have taken the position of professional authority and say, what makes you think you need new shocks and struts? I'd be happy to do it right. How come? Why?
David Boyd: Yeah. So the mindset and the mindset shift now is I'm not an order taker on the front counter. Right? I mean he's not going to call and just order a set of shot and shocks and struts from me. They're going to order, you know, a competent review and inspection of their vehicle. So my job then is to get them to gain, you know, agreement that this is how this how this works, right?
David Boyd: We are a professional organization or skilled and qualified, competent in what we do. And I'm going to build your trust. Mr.. And Mrs., car owner, and we're going to come in and work together on this, and I'm going to keep you informed and advised every step of the way. So these are the trust components that are important when we're looking at, call reviews and training.
David Boyd: Are we, you know, identifying, who we are that we're, you know, a trusted organization. How do we establish our credibility right off the bat? Where are we building brand value throughout the course of our conversation? And a conversation may be 90s. It could. I mean, it could be several minutes, but it's not like we're having this very long dialog.
David Boyd: We're not speaking for 15 or 20 minutes on the phone. These are relatively short conversation. So this is a, a, trainable, teachable skill. Some people are more capable to do this naturally, and some, everybody can do it. I think we need to all acknowledge that that, for somebody who says I just I'm not good at that.
David Boyd: I don't I don't buy that because there are plenty of things that I thought I wasn't good at in my life that I recognize. Looking back, I now I'm very good at those things. And it really has to do with, again, what's the expectation, what tools and training do I have available as an advisor to develop these skills required to meet and satisfy or even exceed the owner's expectation?
David Boyd: And then we all share the need to share the understanding that it is really about the customer. So at the end of the day, the experience of our customer is paramount. And, the if I'm talking with somebody for the first time this now we're setting the tone of our relationship literally forever. So the likelihood of them coming back depends on, you know, this first 15 to 30s of the very first time they ever call our shop, what are we doing in that period of time?
David Boyd: How are we? Establishing our credibility, building confidence in our brand?
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. And, you know, when they do call in to the shop, you've got to take that full customer journey experience coming in that the time that they actually call into the shop is the second opportunity you have to make that first impression. And I say that because they have looked at your website, they've looked at your social media, they've done some research about you before they call you.
Jimmy Lea: Now that they call you, they want to confirm is my research correct and my calling the right shop? Do you guys actually know what you're talking about? So that customer journey becomes very powerful in communicating with those customers.
David Boyd: I love that that I think I, I'm familiar with the term customer journey. I don't know how much we talk about that as an industry. I think we're I'm hearing it more, but I think that's an important part of our dialog. As successful high performing shop owners. Yes. And operators within the industry is do we understand the customer journey.
David Boyd: So this call process is part of the customer journey. And I love that that picture you paint to that it is the that phone call. The first phone call is the second impression. We're making the second opportunity to make a good first impression. Because it does come down to, the search that they've done or the referral that they heard from their neighbor or the, the reviews that they've read out on, on the website or, and other sources.
David Boyd: So it's a, it's a valuable, understanding that feeds nicely into this call handling process.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it does, it does. And, and luckily, unluckily, okay. So to our ability to analyze the customer journey, you may you, as a shop owner may want to talk to your neighbors and, and recruit them as secret shoppers that you're going to comp their oil service, but you're looking for their customer experience. You want to know from them as a secret shopper what's their customer journey.
Jimmy Lea: And we as shop owners, we need to do this often to look at our full experience. Is it easy for somebody to book an appointment with us? Is it easy for them to call in on the phone? Is our phone easily identifiable? Does it ring one, two, three and we answer it? What is the customer journey? And to that point the customer journey?
Jimmy Lea: Is it consistent? Is everybody having that same experience as they're coming through?
David Boyd: This is good. And consistency is driven for the customer experience and our, our internal, process. Right. Do we have consistency in everything that we do with does every vehicle receive a complete inspection. And do we estimate, the entire inspection? Are we presenting all of this, all of those? We learn about consistency. That ties back to the phone as well, because I'll tell you, it's super easy to be distracted by something when I answer the phone.
David Boyd: Oh, we got I've got a technician that is chewing me out because of I don't know what reason right now. And I go answer the phone and I'm angry and they can hear it and it comes across a little bit of like, yeah, what?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
David Boyd: Oh. Okay. I need some help.
Jimmy Lea: You breath first, buddy. Deep breath.
David Boyd: That's exactly it. And that's what I talk about, like, okay, no matter what's going on around me, no matter what noise is happening or, how busy I am, it's always that moment of pause before I answer the phone. I'm going to take that breath. I'm going to, you know, collect my thoughts, regroup, and then I'll answer the phone and I'll the I'll let them hear me smile, because when I'm physically smiling, it sounds different.
David Boyd: It sounds better. Right? And when I'm, you know, I'm when I'm tensed up like this because I'm angry and I just whatever had, some interaction, believe it or not, that's easily detectable on the other side of the phone.
Jimmy Lea: It is important.
David Boyd: Parts.
Jimmy Lea: It is absolutely. And even a fake smile is better than a real frown. Right? You can hear it. Every service advisor class that I've taught, every, phone skills course that I've taught over the last 15 years. One of my questions is, can you tell when a customer is multitasking? Oh, yeah. Totally. Can you tell if their feet are up on the desk, if they're reclined in their chair?
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Me too. And guess what? They can hear the same thing about you, right? Are you multitasking? Are you distracted? Are you being lax a days ago? Do they have your full attention? Yes or no? So not only does this phone skills help on the phone and the front counter, it also helps in communication in life.
David Boyd: Right? It does the way that we interact with one another. It's it's very important. Am I distracted and am I sitting here trying to have a conversation with my kids while tapping away on my phone? Right. Because that leaves an impression on the recipient. And, it's so it's so true in every aspect of communication through our lives.
David Boyd: And, you know, I, I spend a lot of time. Thanks for bringing that point up to me. But I spend a lot of time thinking about how we, handle calls and manage communication in the front office. It's easy to lose sight that it does apply to every aspect of our life. And setting the phone down, making this connection here some eye contact.
David Boyd: I'm going to smile. I'm happy to see you. I'm enthusiastic about being able to talk with you today. Jimmy, I'm going to use your name. Not too frequently, but I'll use your name, Jimmy, because you're worth it, right? You have my undivided attention, and this becomes important. When we talk about technology and call reviews, it, it's important to have the process and expectation established to go through this consistently, so that we don't develop complacency and then, manage the make this normal.
David Boyd: Right. So we want to make our, review of communication. And the review process is always backward looking. We don't want to spend too much time looking in the rearview mirror, but we want to know what's been on the road behind us so that we can, make better decisions about how we're going to navigate going forward.
David Boyd: So if we do this consistently now, it becomes a familiar process. We can sit down and do it very quickly, and we have to, have the ability to, you know, quickly get to a call, that isn't in in a lot of cases. You know this very well. It it happens more frequently, probably than it ought to.
David Boyd: But in the shop, the only calls that are reviewed, so to speak, are where something's gone really wrong. Yeah, right. And now we have a problem. And this becomes an uncomfortable experience. It doesn't feel normal. So we want to normalize the the review process. The other part of this too, is boy listening to myself in a recording.
David Boyd: Man, that sounds funny. It really does. It's uncomfortable for the first half a dozen times, and then it becomes normal. But if I if I listen to myself in a call and then it's six months before that happens again, now I'm right back to the beginning where it sounds unusual. It's not normal. So we want to drive consistency around this.
David Boyd: And consistency is important for you as an owner to determine what is that? I'd like to see something done weekly. If we can spend ten minutes a week on this, I'll tell you what. Your performance on the phone is going to go to the moon.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, and daily, let's do it daily.
David Boyd: Why not?
Jimmy Lea: Quick, quick phone call. And this goes to providing feedback. How can in let's back up a little bit. My mind is getting a little bit further ahead of the conversation. My mouth is just wanting to be there with it. The mind. If you're not having weekly company meetings or daily company meetings, you're having company beatings. And what that means is there's a problem.
Jimmy Lea: Let's talk about it right. If it's a consistent company meeting and you always have the agenda and you follow the agenda and you play a good call, you play a call that needs attention. Even the good calls can be improved. But playing that for the entire team allows them to hear it, see it, feel it, imagine it, and it becomes easier for them to then duplicate it and do it again.
Jimmy Lea: And when you're asking for feedback on how can we make this our best call from yesterday, how can we make this best call from yesterday? Even better today when it happens to play that call, everybody listens. They give their feedback and it goes on. So what, how can you. And maybe I just answered my own question.
Jimmy Lea: How can you start reviewing calls and turning that feedback into improvement? Well, you got to be consistent with it.
David Boyd: It is definitely about consistency and the ability to to get to those calls quickly. Again, I keep I feel like I'm saying the same thing and I apologize for that. But, the heavy lift of time, if we remove that barrier now, this becomes natural. It becomes easy to do and becomes fun and engaging. So how can I quickly get to those calls?
David Boyd: Because my only other option historically really has been listening to call after call after call after call until I find something that's reviewable. Right.
Jimmy Lea: I've done that. So your software identifies that these are the, angry customers. These are the missed opportunities. These are the top performers.
David Boyd: All of these things. So it will review the call and transcribe it so you can read it like a text message. You can look at a an AI generated summary, evaluate the key performance indicators that are important to you. And then we, you know, take additional, steps like having the AI determine is this is this a lead?
David Boyd: Basically, are we talking to a customer? Right. Because the other funny thing about, call recordings is, everybody calls the shop, including our parts suppliers and vendors and distributors and, you know, the, the various, dealerships and all of this stuff, those, when we start to introduce technology, those can look like bad calls because, you know, we tend to answer with the parts guy down the road in a very familiar way.
David Boyd: Hey, what's up, man? That kind of thing. Well, now, right off the bat, this is going to but this isn't a reviewable call. So we want to know that this is a customer interaction. We want to know is this an appointment setting conversation or is this a status check. Let's talk about that. Is check just for a second.
David Boyd: Right. When a customer calls us at 2 or 3:00 in the afternoon and says, hey, what's the status of my vehicle? And they might use those exact words.
Jimmy Lea: Well, you dropped it off at lunch.
David Boyd: Yeah, yeah. Or they dropped it off at seven in the morning or the night before.
Jimmy Lea: And that's true that that's a different scenario. Certainly somebody should have called early in the morning and followed up with them. But let's say they didn't. And now it's 2:00. The customer's doing the heavy lifting. That shouldn't be the experience, but that's training for a different day. Yep. To that phone call 2 p.m. in the afternoon. Hey, what's the status on my vehicle, David?
David Boyd: Well, yeah, let's check on you. I mean, we're going to go down this path right? And I'm like, oh, let me look up and see. And we want to know how well that that call is handled. I, I agree with you. I think that, that I didn't mean to get us off track on, on a status call because that's probably a webinar by itself.
Jimmy Lea: But yeah, it is, but that's okay, David, let's go down there.
David Boyd: So, do we have an expectation to, get in front of that for the customer? Really, no matter what time, they have dropped their vehicle off, did we establish an expectation on when they're going to hear from us, and then how they're going to hear from us? How are they prefer hearing from us? That could be a text message.
David Boyd: It could be a phone call, whatever that happens to be. But whenever, whenever a customer calls and they're looking for a status check, I shouldn't say whenever the majority of the time from what the types of calls I ever hear and see. This is a this is a defect. I'll use that word. It it's an error.
David Boyd: We've let somebody down. So now we have to backpedal. And I got to go look up the status of this vehicle. I got to go and ask the technician who's still working on this. Where are we? I haven't done that pre-work that might take 90s, but I haven't done that and then proactively communicated to the customer.
David Boyd: So now they're calling the shop. What's the status of my vehicle? And I see that usually happening about 3:00. They're beginning to mentally kind of shut down for the day. You're thinking about I'm going to check out from work here shortly. Do I need to go get my car? What do I need to do for taking the kids to practice tonight?
David Boyd: They're asking, an innocent enough question, but we've created some customer disappointment in that process.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No. It's true. Yeah. You have. And hopefully somebody is taking care of that earlier in the day. But those are coachable.
David Boyd: Calls coachable calls. Exactly. So then we can go pick them up. Is this the status call. Is are we using words or terminology. You know the nice thing about technology, because we're transcribing calls, we can identify if a word was spoken.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
David Boyd:
And, and I have, I have a customer that it was, feeling plagued by, service advisors that were using the word unfortunately.
Jimmy Lea: Ooh. Okay. Tell me more about the story.
David Boyd: We want to use. We want to know when that happens so that we can coach an alternative option. Right. Is it really unfortunate for the customer? Unfortunately, I can't get you in today. Or fortunately, I can get you in, next Tuesday at 10 a.m.. Is it unfortunate that it's going to be a $1,300 repair or. Fortunately, we found this now, right.
David Boyd: How do we frame that up? And where are we using, terms that could be off putting to the customer. That makes them defensive. So this was the my customer's mindset. I don't want to hear that word, unfortunately out of my service providers mouth. So we said, well, we're going to analyze the calls. We're going to find out when your service advisor speaks that one word, which is easy enough for the technology to pick up.
David Boyd: But then I'm also going to send you an email with that transcription and the audio file that you can listen to within moments of that call, and now have an immediate coaching opportunity. So and then you see that change in behavior almost immediately. The other thing that if I can talk about this just for a second to me, is when we do this consistently and we know that the review process is happening and this is normal.
David Boyd: Yes, in the shop it's normal for the service advisors. The next time they pick up the phone there, they have this conscious awareness. This might be the next call that we're reviewing. Well, what happens when I feel like somebody is watching me? I'm going up to the next level. So I, I'm driving accountability of performance. Right. We establish the expectation.
David Boyd: We do this review process. We do it consistently. We understand what the outcome is going to be. And now we're driving the accountability through, you know, improved behavior. They are aware that this is happening. And, you know, it's not like they're operating in fear. I don't mean to confuse what we're talking about here, but there's an awareness, right?
David Boyd: And where there's awareness, we understand that things are being measured. When something's measured, it's improved.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, 100%, 100%. And you remind me of a story that I just barely heard up at 80 and in Seattle, Washington. Katie, service advisor for a shop up in Washington is in the APG program. The advisor, advisor performance group, a PG program. And her complaint was, I'm selling everything. So nobody there's no objections to overcome.
Jimmy Lea: Everything is being sold.
Jimmy Lea: Interesting feedback. Thank you very much. Interesting complaint. I don't take that as a complaint though. Congratulations. That is awesome. Awesome for Katie that she's operating at a level with her coaching and training. And she's got that feedback. To your point, the sooner the quicker you can come to an advisor with feedback that change will happen faster. If this is a call from last week, forget about it.
Jimmy Lea: This is a call from last month. Forget about it. Old news.
David Boyd: Right?
Jimmy Lea: Old news. Even yesterday. It's going to be a little bit old. Yeah, it's better than last week or the last month, but yesterday, is good. Hey, here's a call from this morning.
David Boyd: So. Yeah, it's going to be great. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You're using this word. Unfortunately, we talked about using the word fortunately instead of the opposite. A word for me. And I'm wondering if you hear this on the phone calls as well is the word just, just as a weak word. I'm just calling to follow up with you. I'm just. It's just going to call you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Just checking in. So the word just justified can justify. It's a weak position to take as opposed to. I'm calling you back about your vehicle. I'm calling to tell you we can get you back safe on the road, and it's going to be $1,300. That's the other thing I hear a lot from service Advisors is that they're selling from their own pocket book, right?
Jimmy Lea: Their own wallet, their own bank account. Don't do that. Don't do that. You are an advocate for the vehicle. The car right now is telling you, I need $1,300 worth of work. I need $2,500 worth of work. You as a service advisor are the advocate for the vehicle, right? And it's your job to be able to explain to the customer what your vehicle needs.
David Boyd: It's a mindset, a mind shift. Again, this comes through training because I, I might think that $1,300 is a lot of money or too much money. So if I frame my presentation to the customer for my personal financial perspective, that can influence how I present that to the customer. Yeah. I'm like, I'm sorry, it's going to be 1300.
David Boyd: You know, it's not the it's not the professional, mindset that we want to have. Even if I feel like that $1,300 is a lot of money, I can still come from the mindset or the perspective that my customer and I share the same objective. My belief is that they want to keep their vehicle and they want to be safe.
David Boyd: Yes, I understand what they're doing with their vehicle. Is that a commuter? Is it the, you know, is it the proverbial grocery getter or am I taking the kids to practice on, on Saturday morning? What am I doing with this vehicle? And do I do I understand do I believe as the service advisor that, it's my job to inform my customer and share their interest to be safe and have a reliable vehicle?
David Boyd: Reliability and safety are the top two things that most customers will tell you as important about their car and if they're going to if they just want it fixed so they can sell it, and they'll tell you that. Right? So, that doesn't happen very often though. But I think that's kind of the.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, David. David. David. It happens more often than you want to admit. I'm sure this car has been for sale for three years. I just want you to do the minimum. It's. I'm going to sell it next month.
David Boyd: Next month? Right. But I still want it to be reliable and safe in the meantime.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, and that's what that's where advisors need that coaching and training to be able to overcome the objections and be able to talk to the client. Customer, help them to understand that, yes, I understand what you want, but it's not safe if this is my own vehicle, if this was my mother's vehicle or my father's vehicle or my daughter's vehicle, no, absolutely.
Jimmy Lea: This needs to be fixed and repaired today. It's really it's not safe. Right.
David Boyd: And if there are things that are going to be do soon like they're, they're invocations. Right. What are those. Yeah. I'd be it'd be best to do that all today. We're already in here working on this. Right. And however that is presented. How but we may need to be, you know, earn our keep as an advisor and put this plan in place.
David Boyd: So in three months, we're going to do this and, that, I mean, that's, that's getting kind of far in the weeds here because a lot of times this is much better suited for, the advisor, the sales training part of this, the AP GM program, does such a good job. And training. How to do this really super effectively and, making sure that, you know, we understand and we're following up with the customer if they ever have decline services.
David Boyd: So what does it come all down to though, Jimmy. It's really it's it all comes down to the customer experience isn't it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. What is that customer experience.
David Boyd: Yeah. Yeah. The customer experience is paramount from the, from the time that they're, looking at, at our website or they hear about us from their neighbor, maybe they have a, you know, a, referral card with a discount in their hand. Something of the sort. Yeah. Now they're going to call, they're going to begin checking us out.
David Boyd: And, I've, I've seen, you know, the, the, the journey that we talked about earlier in our session here, the customer journey, suggests that as we get to the fourth and fifth visit, now, we, we have brand champions and people that are they're loyal to us. We develop loyalty. But that loyalty that dates all the way back to that first phone call and the first the first information they've ever heard about us, really their first experience.
David Boyd: So every customer interaction is an opportunity to create a lifelong customer. Owner spent a lot of time generating, customers to come in the front door. And we know that there are, you know, the back door is pretty big on some shops. Hopefully the owners know what's going out their back door as well. So if we invest in the, the, the, call review time, if we invest in the process and the training for the service advisors, that back door now begins to swing a little bit more closed and a little bit more closed.
David Boyd: And it's because the customer experience has been elevated. They really trust and believe that, you know, you know, no matter who I talk with here, maybe you have 2 or 3 advisors at your shop and you're not going to talk to the same. The customer won't talk to the same person every time. Do I have a vastly different experience depending on who I talk with?
David Boyd: This is important to know. So, training and coaching and call analysis and review, in my humble opinion, is best done when we're looking at everybody. And sometimes it's necessary to, you know, take the new person and bring them up to a certain point. But then are we are we consistent internally in our dialog and our conversations, looking at everybody's calls and, addressing those?
Jimmy Lea: I totally agree, totally agree. I'll give you my mother's advice when it comes to that sort of coaching and training is that we praise in public and we reprimand in private, or we instruct in private, or we provide that feedback in private, because you don't want to embarrass somebody in the in front of everybody. Those public meetings.
David Boyd: Not this is important for, the, the process areas that I help owners with because, a lot of times we're looking for bad calls, and it doesn't have to be. There's just be bad calls. Right? I, this is where, sometimes, an owner will tell me, I can't listen to calls because I'll choke them.
David Boyd: Well, whether they will or won't, I don't know, but, the whole point in all of that is, if I, you know, as a, as the shop owner, if I listen to my service advisor's calls and they do something that's upsetting to me, how am I going to respond to that? I have an emotional response to that.
David Boyd: Yeah. So it speaks to the, the normalcy. Right. Is it normal for the owner to review calls and listen to calls? But are we also reviewing good calls? Right. Can I listen to and can I identify what has gone well in a phone call? Right. It was, you know, efficient. It was effective. We made good use of the customer's time.
David Boyd: We got an appointment set. We didn't diagnose over the phone. We did all of these things well, and we're going to listen to that and identify. This was a good call. You did a great job on this one, boy. If you know, especially when we're doing this, as a, as a group or a team effort, when we listen to good calls together, now we know what good sounds like.
David Boyd: Yep. And then separately, we can go and listen to a I. There may be times where you do want to listen to something that didn't go quite so well, but I want to be very careful now about how do I correct somebody on this. Right. If I, if I talk to the group, versus Jimmy, I've talked with you about this before.
David Boyd: I, you know, and I start to listen to you now. Now we're reprimanding publicly and that can be very, very damaging for employee morale and the culture in the shop. So I agree with you 100% praise publicly. And you know, correct privately. And there are there are times and certainly we want to make a habit of evaluating when things go well and, you know, giving the, the, the fist bumps and the high fives for doing so.
Jimmy Lea: I love it, I love it. In fact, let's ask our audience, how many of you guys are doing weekly meetings, daily meetings, monthly meetings. How often are you having quick meetings, stand up meetings with your service advisors, your technicians? How often are you having these meetings to provide feedback on phone calls? How many of you are listening to phone calls?
Jimmy Lea: I'd love to hear that as well. So go ahead and put those into the comments, because, David. Yeah, if we are not having those morning huddles, if we're not having those quick stand up meetings, it's a public meeting because it only gets addressed when it's a problem. Oh yeah. Look there Bill is weekly. Cindy is morning huddles and weekly meetings.
Jimmy Lea: Very nice. And Bill and Cindy for your phone calls. Phone call reviews. Is that also a weekly event? Is that a daily event? Is that only as needed? Cindy says she's listening now.
David Boyd: Now and then and then. Yeah. Thanks for your, like.
Jimmy Lea: I'm only tasking. I'm listening to this webinar, but I'm, I'm checking all these phone calls as well, and. Yeah, now and then Mike's.
David Boyd: Mike's point is, that that's a key takeaway, that, it's important to acknowledge that we never want to lose the, the intent. So, And good job, Bill. The intent is super important. So as an owner, you can begin to skirt yourself by saying, I've told myself, I want to do this more for three years now, and I forget that I'm going to give up on it.
David Boyd: So, point well taken. It it it's if you want to do it more, great. Maintain that and then do it more. And if you don't, because something, you know, busyness gets in the way, maintain the intent to do that and pursue that, pursue the intent, because it will, will, elevate your service advisors and elevate your customer experience.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, and I love it. And you see Cindy's comment as well. They've got a new person. And with that new person, they're doing more phone reviews than they previously do. Why? Because you've got a new person. You want to make sure that they're part of the company the culture, the process, the procedure, the look, the feel, the customer journey experience.
Jimmy Lea: They want to make sure that that resonates. Yes, with the new people.
David Boyd: So I'll go back to the, the process part of this. Right. So the, the owner's expectation, for the owners and thanks for the, the real time feedback from those that have, you know, voiced their perspectives. If you don't have a clear understanding yourself of what you're wanting to accomplish, just take a little bit of time and do that talk with your coach.
David Boyd: You know, the service advisors can get involved in the coaching and training program, but I know, certainly a number of the people, live with us here now are also part of coaching. So talk with your coach and help define what that expectation can be and should be because, there, there are, good, healthy ways to define as the owner, what do I really want to accomplish in this phone call?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. And to that point here, Cindy is saying, hey, you know, I'm super interested in this, I programing. How will that, I well, Cindy, I think it is and save you a ton of time.
David Boyd: Right. It's it does save a ton of time and, I don't I don't know that that we want to. I mean, I'd be happy to just show real quick and give a, quick overview of what it what it looks like. Yeah. Right. I would say, you know, I'm happy to talk with anybody, whether you're an inbound customer or not.
David Boyd: I can talk with you about what? What the tools can help you accomplish and how you can quickly get to the review process. And, what we have is, is our insights platform. And I have this set up based on some real data here. We're looking at a, at a subset of calls. And, I think Stu will be able to flash this up on the screen here, but.
Jimmy Lea: Michael, Michael, I'm sorry. Michael. Michael, pull up the screen here, Bubba. So you've click it and, we're going to be able to see, your live screen. This is your probably your demo account I'm guessing.
David Boyd: Yeah. So it's based on real data. But it's so we have, you know, we have the ability to look at a subset if you're a multi shop owner, we can look at a subset of locations and we can filter in on a specific service advisor. We have different scorecards that we can use. But what I want to really help illustrate to Cindy's question point here is, you know, I have a subset of calls, this is actually filtered down for leads.
David Boyd: Like I know that these are customer interactions. And the appointment was not set. So the appointment set is false. I want to identify calls where we didn't set the appointment, but this was a customer interaction. So I have set up calls where things went well except we didn't set an appointment. And then I have defined coachable calls, but I can look at a summary on this and figure out, you know what?
David Boyd: And just like, very quickly, what, is going on with this call, I can look at a transcription of this call. I can if the funny thing is I can read through a transcription very quickly. Yeah. That's super helpful. And then if I want to, I can drill into the, the call in more detail. And this gives me an interesting perspective to not only telling me about the, you know, the length of the call, but who's talking.
David Boyd: And when this we were talking a little bit before about, you know, ownership and control, these are some leading indicators about who is in control of the conversation of, you know, if the customer is talking two thirds of the time, we might want to question, really who is in charge of this conversation. So just wanted to give you a, you know, a quick peek.
David Boyd: But the whole idea here is that I can quickly drill in for a particular service advisor, or maybe one location that I'm working with if you're an MSL and then, filter down based on certain criteria, I want to evaluate, if I, if I just want to look at if these are leads, these are all of the lead calls, whether an appointment was set or not.
Jimmy Lea: And, seven days. This is looking at seven days, 200 and.
David Boyd: 60 days worth of data here. So I have 216 calls to look at which is way too many. Right? I can't get 216 calls over here. I see a gross conversion of the customer interactions of 70% conversion. So 70% of these 215 calls, we had, an agreement to buy or an appointment set. And then I can go down into here and identify there is a subset of five each.
David Boyd: So five champion and five coachable calls that I can very quickly go to. These are prescreened qualified. I have all of the key performance indicators here that I know that's super small on your screen, but you know, was this an existing customer? Did we take ownership? Did we leverage our sales skills, build brand value things of this sort and at a super high level?
David Boyd: That is what technology can do for you. So Cindy, this is how you can, you know, leverage, technology to, to really drive this process for you and others that, that, you know, we're hearing this today or in the near future.
Jimmy Lea: Because what you're going to do is say, Cindy, hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of listening to phone calls, looking for that one call to find it coachable. It just stacks it right up for you. I love that. That's absolutely amazing.
David Boyd: It really puts it right in front of you. And when I, when I talk about taking the heavy lift and we can go ahead and take that off the screen now, but when we take that heavy lift of, of time off of the owners table or the call coaches table, that is where it becomes a force multiplier, right?
David Boyd: I have the ability to do more in less time. Yeah. And that's, that's, super powerful for the owners. Who if they're, if they're taking this responsibility on themselves. But it also means that that my, call coach, who I brought in to come alongside in my training process, can maybe work with, 2 or 3 of my advisors instead of just one.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it.
David Boyd: They have the ability to very quickly get to these calls.
Jimmy Lea: And I love your drill down as well. Were you able to drill down to the specific advisor. So to our audience, are there any questions, comments or concerns you have that you want to address here with David that we're coming in quick here to be landing this plane. If you've got questions, let's type them in now. I love that we can drill down to the specific advisors.
Jimmy Lea: That's for to see their close rates too. Will it show you, a, Eric is closing at a 99% or let's call it 90%. And then I've got Joe over here that's closing at a 30%, where they might say the shop averages 55 or 60. That's not bad. Yes, but can we look at each advisor to say, all right, Joe, you need to shadow Eric for the next 3 or 4 hours.
David Boyd: Exactly. So, so it does just that to answer your question, the short answer is yes. So, with our insights dashboard, when, when you filter, if that filter includes just the advisor that, that that those numbers, the conversion and the data and the metrics, the key performance indicators. That's only, looking at just that one advisor. So it really it is a powerful tool because if I have an advisor who's, you know, conversion is 50%, an appointment setting calls.
David Boyd: And I have an advisor who's 90% on appointment setting calls. We can do a couple things. One, we can acknowledge that we have an appointment setting problem, and, we know who to work with, but two, we can leverage, my stronger advisor to have examples. Right. We were talking about the review of good calls.
David Boyd: We can take some of those good calls and say, hey, underperforming advisor. This is what a good call sounds like, because once I once I hear those examples, now I can begin to relay, relate and adapt to my interaction with the customer and begin to emulate what a stronger advisor is doing, in order to perform better.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. I love that. And, there was a testimonial there a minute ago from Jenny that's using you at, Titan Auto entire Chesterfield, Virginia.
David Boyd: Thank you. I saw that pop up. I didn't read it, but,
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's good, man. It's been a wonderful coaching tool. It makes monitoring advisors easy.
David Boyd: Thanks, Jenny.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you. So, to Ed Scheer's question here, what do you think about the AI driven automated phone answering system? So this will be our last question before we land the plane here.
David Boyd: This is a good question. And, this is a yeah, I would say probably a different type of AI. So now we're doing some customer interaction, with, with the use of a bot. And, my preference would be to not use the bot, but I also see that there's value in the industry to be able to do that, because I, I fully acknowledge there are times when we can't handle 100% of the calls.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, we've got four clients in front of us. The phones are ringing off the hook. We can't get to the phone because we got to take care of who's in front of us. If we take care of who's in front of us, we miss all those phone calls that could have come through. Or maybe it's after hours, right?
Jimmy Lea: So that would be better.
David Boyd: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Let's say that's the scenario. We're not having a service advisor not answer the phones because they want it to go to the bot. That's bad right? Let's assume that it is a scenario that it's the safety net. What do you think of that?
David Boyd: I think that if we have the correct perspective that really this becomes an interactive voicemail, then it's a powerful experience. It can benefit the customer. And this is about the customer experience. And you may also know that there are times that a customer may I say I'll say annoyed, but they may just be like, I whatever, you know, hang up.
David Boyd: So, if you have the correct expectation about what that type of, tool can do for you, it's important to know that it can and will benefit you after hours. Because it allows you to take that appointment. Right. And, and I partner, with somebody that provides a very powerful tool that does this and integrates, you know, with, with the vehicle history.
David Boyd: And it can pull this forward and, you know, allows us to, to really be sophisticated in that appointment setting process. But that is probably the, the, the ideal time to use this is after hours. And if we look at this is really the sophisticated or interactive voicemail. This is a good use of, of AI in this way.
David Boyd: The last thing and thanks, Cindy to, I love that comment. I on the phone, has gotten a lot of heat lately. I don't know if you've seen or heard about this, but, I as a communication expert focused on the industry, I pride myself in my ability to protect my customers. So, there is some case law coming forth now with regard to the use of AI.
David Boyd: Whether it's kind of I, I do with car reviews or the bots and things of this sort. And we want to be, very particular in the way that we deploy that. So, I've got my thumb on that. It was on a very extensive, call, yesterday with a law firm that, is a frontrunner in the industry, in the communication industry.
David Boyd: So, these are all of the things that are important. And as an owner, there's a lot of, you know, cool and flashy tools out there. I would say I make sure that that you understand, what you're deploying and the potential legal implications, particularly in states where we have two party consent laws with regard to phone use.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. David. Thank you. We'll have to do a follow up webinar to this webinar to find out what the ruling is or what happens with this new case law that that would be fascinating.
David Boyd: It's important. Yeah. It's important, you know, the wiretap call recording all of these. And I'd love to, have a follow up for your audience because it is important, and, we don't hear about it. Often. People get in trouble. So. Yeah, you got to have an advocate on your side that can that can help you with this, right?
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it with that. Thank you. David. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your effort, your energy to our automotive aftermarket industry. You are an awesome asset for everyone here and those who use your services. They know how great you are and the services you provide. So hats off to you brother. Thank you very much.
Jimmy Lea: You make the coaching and training side of what we do with phone skills and advice and following that proper phone flow. So much easier.
David Boyd: Thank you Jimmy. This has been a lot of fun. I really appreciate you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah you're welcome. Thank you brother. And for those of you still with us, there are some upcoming events. Check out our website. We are the institute.com. Go under all events. See that we have a leadership intensive coming up very soon. If you want to dig deep into the human centric side of why you choose to do what you do and why your clients are the way they are, and why your employees are the way that they are.
Jimmy Lea: And how can you best communicate knowing these? This information is going to be very important. That leadership intensive happening in April. We are in April, happening in April in Salt Lake, Salt Lake City, Utah. Love to have you be a part of that. It's going to be awesome, awesome and amazing. We've also got some service Advisor training coming up soon, and in September is September or October.
Jimmy Lea: I think it's September is the next mini Mars series we are going to have at in the office in Ogden. It's going to be limited seating, 50 people only, limited seating, mini Mars. Love to see you there. Thank you very much, David. Thank you to everybody who is here today. Good to see you my friends. Thank you. Cindy.
Jimmy Lea: Bill, Ed Sheer, Jenny. Mike, you guys are awesome. Thank you so much. Have a great day.

Friday Apr 04, 2025
Friday Apr 04, 2025
116 - The Golden Rules of Listening – Part 3: Strengthening Business Partnerships & Relationships
March 26th, 2025 - 00:56:14
Show Summary:
In this episode, Jimmy Lea from The Institute for Automotive Business Excellence is joined by life coach Juliana Sih of Crescendo Coaching for a masterclass on the Golden Rules of Listening. Together, they explore how powerful listening skills can transform your business, relationships, and leadership approach. Juliana shares actionable insights and data-backed reasons why deep listening is essential, offering tools to increase awareness and intentionality. Through real-life examples and practical exercises, listeners learn how to minimize distractions, let go of judgment, and build trust through reflective communication. Whether you're managing a shop or navigating personal challenges, these skills can help you unlock better conversations and stronger connections.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
Juliana Sih, founder of Crescendo
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:00] – Jimmy introduces the webinar's interactive format and the power of today's topic: life-saving communication.
[00:00:59] – Juliana Sih joins and shares her passion for helping leaders and teams grow through better conversations.
[00:04:08] – Juliana introduces the “Golden Rules of Listening” and how applying them can increase your skills by 30%.
[00:07:36] – Only 2% of people are formally trained in listening, yet it's the most-used communication skill.
[00:10:53] – Listening is crucial for building trust, catching key details, and aligning teams for better decision-making.
[00:15:09] – Juliana introduces the three levels of listening and how great leaders operate at level three.
[00:20:49] – The group discusses what makes a good vs. bad listener, with input from the live audience.
[00:28:22] – Active listening involves full-body engagement and thoughtful clarification to build connection.
[00:30:29] – Golden Rule #1: Be Present - Juliana shares a personal story about missing out by being mentally distracted.
[00:36:04] – Golden Rule #2: Listen Without Judgment - understand context over content and put “Bob” (your inner critic) in the back seat.
[00:44:47] – Golden Rule #3: Reflect and Rephrase - this technique helps diffuse conflict and deepen collaboration.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5DPfR3OZb0
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
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Jimmy Lea: Morning. Good evening, good night. Depending on when and where you're joining us from today, it is a beautiful day outside. Glad to be here with you in the automotive aftermarket, as we talk about all those things that you just don't always have time to talk about, these are some of those discussions that are deep conversations that really help us to take it to the next level.
Jimmy Lea: Joining me today is a life coach, and we're going to talk about some of those things that will help save your life, help save your business, help save your marriage. Help save your relationships. Help save your communication with employees and spouse and clients and customers. This is going to be a great discussion. I'm super excited for this.
Jimmy Lea: And it's to be an interactive webinar. Interactive in what way? How do we do that? We're not going to save all your questions for the very end for the Q&A. We want your questions in the middle of the discussion. So you have the voice. You are able to kick it in and join us in this conversation.
Jimmy Lea: So go to the comments button. And this is new for us. We're first time we're streaming live here with StreamYard. This is going to be awesome and amazing and so much fun. Click there in the comments button and put in where you're joining us from today. So we can give you a shout out in the comments just like that and see that there.
Jimmy Lea: It's going to give you a shout out. Super excited to be back on StreamYard. It's been a couple of years since I was on StreamYard, so I'm super excited to be back here in StreamYard to give you all a shout out. And thank you for joining us as we're having this conversation. So type in where you are joining us from.
Jimmy Lea: Those of you who are on Facebook, you can join this conversation as well. Type it into the comments. Same with those of you on joining on YouTube. Click into the comments and you can tell us where you're joining us from today. And since you are all being a little bit shy, or maybe you get comments button, I don't know who's on or who's not.
Jimmy Lea: Love to have a give you a shout out. All right. Well I guess we'll have to keep this to the three of us. I think this is going to be a great conversation we're having with the three of us. Hey, you know what it is? It's going to be a great conversation. And those of you who are watching the recording, this is some of the great information that we at the Institute are able to, give out to you as a shout out.
Jimmy Lea: And you know what? It does look like things are starting to work. We got Stu in the Salt Lake City, Utah area, and, we've got the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. Shout out from Ogden, Utah. And, well, Salt Lake. So yes, we are working that that's a, a YouTube. So it's working. Hallelujah. All right, so here we go.
Jimmy Lea: On to the next. And joining me today is Juliana. Si. She is a life coach with Crescendo Coaching. A phenomenal friend in the industry. We have done quite a few webinars together over the years talking about communicate and talking about, marriage, talking about life, talking about running a business and running a marriage and being partners in running a marriage, being partners in a marriage and running the business and not killing each other.
Jimmy Lea: So Juliana and I have had some really good conversations. I'm so excited to welcome you here. Juliana. Thank you for joining me today.
Juliana Sih:: Yes, Jenny, I'm so excited to be here again. What I love about the institute is just helping the business owners grow, be their best self, and help their employees.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, that. That's so powerful. It's so powerful when we can make a difference. And that difference comes when we lock arms together and decide that we're not going to leave anybody behind. We are all going to make this storm together, because it's a strange and crazy storm that we're in. We're all locking arms together to make sure that we can weather this storm together.
Jimmy Lea: So with that to Juliana, where are we talking about today?
Juliana Sih: Today we're going to be talking about the golden rules of listening. And I think this is a skill that is a really a game changer, because I truly believe that leaders, coach and coaches lead. And one of the great skills that I've been able to expand on, and I'm still working on it, it's a work in progress, is the skill of listening.
Juliana Sih: So I want to teach your audience and your people and your shop owners all about this skill. But if you just have a little bit of awareness and a little bit of intention, you can increase your listening skills by 30%.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. I'm down for this 30% increase. I am working on my skill of listening, so I'm super down with this information. I'm excited.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, because really listening helps to strengthen personal professional relationships. That helps you to navigate difficult conversations right? When you're triggered and you have like strong emotions inside or your employees triggered and you don't know how to be with them, listening is the key. So listening can help you break through communication barriers, and it can help foster deep and trusting relationships.
Juliana Sih: So I want your audience to do just a little quick, question. On a scale of 1 to 10, I want you to rate how would you rate your listening skills just on a scale of 1 to 10? Just think about it. Put it into the comments. I want to know where you feel like you're at with your listening skills.
Juliana Sih: Jimmy, what do you think you're listening skills are,
Jimmy Lea: I think I'm at a solid 7.5.
Juliana Sih: Beautiful. And then for the audience, too, just you don't necessarily need to think about this now, but maybe just in the back of your mind, what would make it a ten?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I think oh, can I answer this one.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Because I think I have an idea. I think for me it's putting away the distractions. So that in that conversation, in that moment when, we're having a conversation and it's one that needs full attention, which is all conversations, I need to put away the distractions and give that the full attention because, as much as I like to think I can multitask, I really can't.
Juliana Sih: I'm fearful I'm going to talk. I'm going to actually talk about that a little bit later today. During this masterclass. So I mean, one of the what. Oh, wait. Sorry. So listening is actually the most common communication skill that we use more than speaking. We listen 45% of the time, which is almost about eight hours of our day.
Juliana Sih: And then we spend about 30% of our time speaking, and then 25% is split between like reading and writing. And the statistics are pretty sad. On listening, only 2% of people are formally trained in listening, and it's people like coaches or therapists, and most of the money that is spent on personal development and communication skill all goes to speaking rather than, and very little on listening.
Juliana Sih: So today I want to talk about, you know, why does this matter? Why does listening matter? I want to talk a little bit more about some of the statistics. I have some, things I want to read off here. I want to talk about the difference between passive listening and active listening. And then we're going to go into the three golden rules.
Juliana Sih: And then I'm going to share the rest of the rules with you. And then we'll go into some Q&A in case the we don't answer all the questions before that. So as Jimmy shared with you, my name is Juliana and I'm a leadership coach, and I help leaders find their authentic leadership style so they can make a bigger impact.
Juliana Sih: I've been doing this full time since 2018, and as a coach, my main job is to listen deeply, to be radically curious, and to ask thought provoking questions, to evoke new awareness. So what I've done with this masterclass is I've really condensed what I've learned in the past seven years as a coach and put it into really layman terms so that I can teach a business owner or a spouse and leaders in the community to deepen their listening skills.
Juliana Sih: And really, my mission with all that is to elevate conversations. One deep conversation at a time. Because all the time I hear this in my practice is like I hear people telling me that they haven't shared what's on their mind with other people, right? Like, I get that all the time. Like, people know and trust me for a reason, but I don't think I have anything special.
Juliana Sih: I think I just listen more deeply and people than open up. So that's why. That's why I care about teaching this topic. Here's a few reasons why I think you should care, right? Miscommunications happen all the time. If you can listen more deeply and you can understand the other person's lead, it's going to lead to less disagreements and unresolved issues, likely if you're not a good listener, there's a lot of frustration, and people may choose to stop sharing openly, which can lead to feeling of resentment or isolation or being left out of a conversation.
Juliana Sih: And I know as a shop owner and as a leader, you don't want that. Frustration is an energy leak. There's a lot of missed opportunities. Also, poor listening can cause you to overlook valuable information, feedback, or potential new ideas. And of course, limited growth. Bad listeners missed out on learning new perspectives that could spark personal development and make better decisions.
Juliana Sih: So really, when you can be a better listener, you can be more efficient. Effective people will trust you, and you'll have more influence in either in your community or in your business. Because I know as business owners, as leaders, you want to be more efficient, right? You want to catch kids, you want to catch key details of first time and reduce miscommunications and unnecessary back and forth.
Juliana Sih: You want to be influential. You want to get everyone aligned on the same page. You want to be able to solve problems faster by really understanding the real issue and not the surface level issues. You want more collaboration. You want people to work together, clear communication and stronger relationships. And that's really the power of deep listening.
Juliana Sih: You want to be able to make good decisions, right? When you listen deeply, you can gather insights. You can ensure you don't miss the critical information that's needed to make a really powerful decision. And you also want to build influence. Influence is built when people trust you and people trust you, when they feel heard and seen and they feel important.
Juliana Sih: And that's what listening can do. So so I hear this quote often. It's like, don't be the most interesting person in the room. Be the most interested.
Jimmy Lea: And and oh my gosh, Juliana right there. You just hit on an an on a solid topic, a solid almost another webinar. Two things that I that I hear when I hear you talking about communication and listening. As you can imagine, in high school, I in college and in life, people remind me that I have two ears and one mouth.
Jimmy Lea: So I need to listen more. And I'm trying to I'm trying to listen more. I'm trying to listen and be better. My mind tends to go pretty fast, and I try to hear what you're saying, but my mind is, and this is my fault. This is where I'm trying to draw back and listen better rather than anticipate what your problem is.
Jimmy Lea: You concern is, and I'm trying to fix it. Before you even get to your point, I need to listen better instead of thinking ahead. Are you gonna be talking about that as well? Where I want to solve all the problems and they don't even know the problem?
Juliana Sih: Yes, Jimmy, you bring it up. Such a good point. Really? There's a reason why this happens. And it's scientifically based, right? So our brain is brilliant. It can process up to 400 words per minute. And the average speaker talks about 100 words per minute. So that's only 25% of your brainpower. Guess what it's doing. The other 75% of the time it's we have our inner chat, right.
Juliana Sih: You're either like maybe judging, trying to give advice, you're trying to mind read is what you're trying to do, trying to anticipate what they're going to say so that you can try to solve their problem or you're trying to one up someone or you're trying to, or you're just daydreaming, right? Someone's talking about their weekend. You're like off thinking about the vacation you had five years ago when that pina colada.
Juliana Sih: That was delicious. So I think part of it is like we're how how do we refocus that 75% or, you know, 60%, whatever it is to something else so that we're actually present with the person. And I am going to talk a little bit about some of the things where you can, put that beautiful brain power that we have to good use.
Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice, awesome.
Juliana Sih: So there are some different levels of listening, and this is kind of something that we don't really think about. Right? There's the internal level of listening. Level one. So I want you to picture yourself at a restaurant. You're sitting with a person on the other side. Maybe you're on a first date or someone you admire. And then the waiter brings you the menu and you're looking at the menu, and you're.
Juliana Sih: This is where you're at level one. You're looking at the menu and you're like, what would look good right now? What do I what am I, crazy? The focus is on you. The spotlight is on you. Oh, should I have a drink before I start eating? What? Appetizer. Sounds good. So that's level one. All right, let's say you ordered, some spaghetti and meatballs and you're happy.
Juliana Sih: And now, level two, you're focused, listening on the other person. Your sole focus is on them. It's like the whole world could fall away, and they would just be you and the other person that's focused, listening. You're paying attention to what is said and not said. You're paying attention to their nonverbal cues. So that's level two. The spotlight is not on you, right?
Juliana Sih: Level one is on you. The spotlight is on the other person. So we're going to be talking a lot about some strategies to be more and like level two, level three is global listening. And level three includes the action, the inaction in the interaction. And it includes, like all your senses, not just your hearing, but also your senses, your intuition.
Juliana Sih: You know when you get that gut feeling, someone tells you like I'm doing fine, but deep down you kind of know, like something's up. That's global listening, that's level three listening. So I just want to distinguish these three levels because we all have access to them. Global three takes a lot of practice. The most influence, and successful people are able to practice at a level three.
Juliana Sih: They're able to read their impact and adjust accordingly. So some of this, the success that I already shared with you about listening, I told you they're a little sad. And that's okay. This this is why I want to teach this. And others already teach this to change that narrative. Right? Only 2% of people have formal education and listening.
Juliana Sih: 75% of people are preoccupied while listening. They're either thinking about their to do list. What to say next, just waiting for the other person to kind of like, stop talking. 80% of organizations spend money on speaking, but they don't spend money on listening and building the listening skills. So it's all about like talking and how to talk more effectively, but not on listening.
Juliana Sih: So we're kind of in a crisis and listening just because there's not enough, resources spent on that. I'm going to share a few other statistics here that I found. A survey found that 96% of people believe themselves to be a good listener. There's actually a Google did a three year study on trying to figure out what the most effective teams did, what made them different from other teams, and what they found is that the most successful teams were better listeners.
Juliana Sih: They were better communicators. They had, you know, when someone speaks, everyone listened and their ideas were all exchanged and shared. Everyone felt curtains heard and seen. Then they were like contributing. So the most successful teams have a good listeners where people can feel heard and seen, and they have this sense of safety within them. The funny also thing is that most people believe they're a good listener, but they think they're a better listener than they are.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. No, of course. Right. I mean, we always think that. So to to the Google analysis was, were these teams trained and taught how to do this or they just discovered that they were better listeners.
Juliana Sih: They just discovered like an outside party was evaluating, these teams. And that's what the outside party discovered is that these teams had really good communications skills internally in their team. Everyone felt like they were contributing to the whole, and everyone felt like their ideas were being heard and valued.
Jimmy Lea: Well, that's fascinating. Fascinating that that Google would analyze that within their own company to see what makes a good team great.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, yeah. Some of the other statistics here listening to 30 minutes or more of nagging complaining can negatively affect the brain problem solving skills. Active listening is identified by 64% of HR professionals as the most critical leadership skill. Being able to actively listen is shown to increase productivity and collaboration by up to 25%, and it's also shown to reduce the number of misunderstandings by 40%.
Juliana Sih: So a really, really valuable skill to have. I showed this a little bit earlier, but we spent a lot of time listening. 45% of our time is spent listening. 30% is spent speaking, and then around 25 is writing. And, reading. So I would love to hear from the audience a little bit about what they think.
Juliana Sih: Hang on this, which may I said, let's talk a little bit about the good, the bad and the ugly of listening. So I want to hear from your audience just a few things about what they what they believe is a good listener. What makes a good listener just put into the chat in the comments just right. So the first thing that comes to mind when you think of a good listener.
Jimmy Lea:
And while we're waiting for people to chat in something that I, it just reminded me I saw on Facebook, reels and on TikTok is that we listen and we don't judge. So judging, would be one that I need to work on to make sure that I'm not judging when I'm receiving information. But then the second, as a good listener would be that I am listening, not multitasking.
Jimmy Lea: So something that goes a long way for me when I'm talking to somebody or giving instruction, is for them to acknowledge. Acknowledge goes a long way in my book, attentive writing says attentive. Yes, absolutely.
Juliana Sih: Using mirroring, repeating what they're saying.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah. And I love that Mary said this because in that mirroring, the sender of the information is able to hear what you heard, and it might not be what they meant to say. It might be, oh my gosh, now that I'm hearing that back, wait, there's a couple of changes we need to make to that because that a lot.
Juliana Sih: Yes. You bring up such a good point when you mirror and when you when you can be that reflective mirror like then they also know what they're saying because most of the time people don't actually know what's coming out of their mouth. They have some ideas, but then things slip and you know, they don't know what they're saying.
Juliana Sih: But by being a mirror, they can learn about themselves as well.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I like John suggestion here too. And there's a fine line. I don't know if you can talk about this or not. Juliana, in asking questions is asking questions that are good and important, but at what point does it go to an interrogation from the the receiver side? You're asking me questions. Well, at what point does it go from you're asking me questions to now it feels like you're just interrogating me.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. That really has to do with the quality of the question. You really want to make sure that it's not pointed, right? Like if someone's telling me about, like, their marriage and they're struggling and I ask, well, why don't you just divorce them? See, I'm going to that is. And how like, instead of like, oh, what? Don't what don't what aren't you happy with in your marriage?
Juliana Sih: So really that really depends on the quality of the question that you ask. You want to make sure that a you're being curious, you don't know the answer. Right. And also you're not leading them somewhere and you want to ask an open ended question. Not like a yes no question which usually starts with a what. Versus like a did or how goes sometimes in the explanation and people can feel a little bit defensive also when they have to explain themselves.
Juliana Sih: But there's a purpose and reason for those types of questions as well.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah for sure. It's something that, that I've, discovered in my communication, is, acknowledge before you go asking me the next question, I need some sort of a verbal cue body cue that says you're hearing me. You're listening. You understand? There may be, affirming, confirming, acknowledging or saying yes. And, that goes deeper into it.
Jimmy Lea:
So, if I get a barrage of questions, probably three in a row without acknowledgment, then I it feels and I'm discovering this about me. I mean, I'm 51 years old and I'm finally learning these things that I, I feel, interrogated.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. And it's. Yeah. You mentioned something really important to asking one question at a time.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Juliana Sih: Oh, yes. When you stack questions, people get overwhelmed. They don't know where to, where to start, what to answer first. So really, like, you know, asking good questions, the quality of the question matters. Making sure it's from curiosity, but also, yeah, asking a simple question as you can long winded questions are also make it very difficult because, there's like some explanation in there and, you know, other components.
Juliana Sih: The most powerful questions are the simplest.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. I learned, 15 years ago about asking multiple questions at the same time. They'll only answer the last question. The first two weeks, they don't even remember what they were, but they'll answer the last one.
Juliana Sih: Yes, yes. Beautiful. So good leaders, we have a very good responses here. Very attentive. They're focused, they're connected. And they're responding either by nodding, nodding, acknowledging that they are either here in you, seeing you, or in the conversation with you. All right. Let's talk about a bad listener. What are the qualities of a bad listener or just like someone who's not?
Juliana Sih: Yeah, I don't like the word bad, but, you know, a bad listener. Let's talk about that. What are some of the qualities of that?
Jimmy Lea: I think distraction is top of the list.
Juliana Sih: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Or dismissive. That is right up there with, being distracted, dismissive. Yeah. My my concerns, my questions, my comments, my concerns have no weight in your world. And you're going to just dismiss me.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Maybe I didn't say right. Maybe we need to repeat this, but, yeah. Dismissive that’s a...
Juliana Sih: That's a tough right. It makes you feel like, disrespected or not important or just like you're they're not even listening, right. They interrupt. Bad listeners also are closed minded. They just want to, like, share their ideas. And they're not actually even it doesn't even feel like they're allowing what the other person is saying to enter.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it feels in those situations it doesn't feel like a discussion. It feels like a instruction.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Like I'm being instructed and told what to do, where to go, what to think. And that's not good. Nobody wants to have that type of a relationship with a business partner, a client, a spouse.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. People really want collaboration. Yeah. And that's where, like, the listening skill can really come in. Is like, if you want to collaborate on a solution, right? Everyone has input, then everyone's involved, everyone's aligned. Everyone's like, ready to go because they all felt like they contributed. And they're part of the whole, something else that makes people or that looks a little too busy.
Juliana Sih: They're distracted. They're, you know, they're on their phone, they say they're listening, but you kind of know they're they're not.
Jimmy Lea: There's some that I've seen before is, talking over here. I am telling you about a situation or a story or some information and, it's it's as if, though I'm not even there. I'm not even talking because somebody just comes in, blows right over the conversation, takes right over it.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's very frustrating.
Juliana Sih: So common because we all want to like, relate it to ourselves also. And then we don't need to bring that spotlight back on us. But we unintentionally bring it back. Right?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Juliana Sih: So it's like initially it was on you and then they want to bring it back to them, but not intentionally. It's just like a very subconscious thing very often.
Jimmy Lea: So what's a way to be able to do that so that we're not doing that too. It's about them. It's not about me. They're telling me about a problem, a question, a concern. And how I, I guess it's just focusing with full intent on making the conversation about them and zero about me. Is that the listening skill for that one there?
Jimmy Lea: Juliana.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, the listening skill. Again, it goes back to that, brain power like our brain has. It's so it has such a high CPU and we're not using all of it when the other person's talking. So it's just about where can I put my focus? So it's not just going back on me. So it's about listening to the content, right?
Juliana Sih: Making sure you're understanding them. It's about reading their moods and emotions like the subtle things it's about, like noticing if they have any vocal changes that are happening. Like, you know, someone says they're really they say the words, oh, I'm so excited about something. But the voice is it or the like. Body language is there. That's where you tune and that's where you put the energy when you want to actively listen.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Juliana Sih: So when you're just listening, you're, you know, focused, you're focused on the speaker, but you're not fully in it with them. You know, you might be kind of disengaged. You might be doing something else. So that's not really active listening. Yeah. Active listening is more on the, sorry, just my slides. Active listening is more being fully with the speaker.
Juliana Sih: It's having the spotlight, being fully on the person. You're understanding the speaker's message, you're understanding their feelings. You're understanding their perspective. You're putting yourselves in their shoes so you can try to understand them completely and do your focus on understanding and responding thoughtfully. And you take into account those verbal and nonverbal cues to understand. You make eye contact with your present within you.
Juliana Sih: Ask clarifying questions. How often has someone been talking to you? And they're chatting about something and you're lost, but you're just like, yeah, yeah, right. Instead of pausing and being like, actually, hang on a second, I'm not quite sure what you're saying there. Can you clarify that? So active listening is all about, you know, engage in the conversation and ask those clarifying questions and paraphrasing.
Juliana Sih: So active listening aims to understand passive listening is just hearing. You know active listening involves reflective responses and asking clarifying questions and involves the whole body, not just the words. It involves the mood and the motion, the body language, the vocal changes. So that's where all that CPU can go, right? Because in listening, the thing that we're doing often is we're judging not I don't mean like bad judging, but we're just judging what the person saying, whether it's good or bad, whether it's right or wrong.
Juliana Sih: We might be trying to give advice for like, I know the exact solution to make this person, successful. And then you're thinking about all the advice that you want to give. But unfortunately, that's not active listening. We all have really good intentions. We want to help people, but the best way we can help people is by active listening.
Juliana Sih: So the thing about listening is we often think we are better at listening than we really are. Study showed that managers will rate themselves high on listening, but their employees who report to them will rate those same managers as poor listeners. So we all think we're, like, better listeners than we are. And I think that's just because we have a lot of blind spots when it comes to listening.
Juliana Sih: You know, we learn listening from our families, peers and our life experience, mostly through trial and trial and errors. And they've and we've just compounded over the years, they have become habits that we don't even realize are getting in the way. So like I mentioned earlier, just a little bit of awareness and, just a little bit of awareness and some attention can go a long way when it comes to listening.
Juliana Sih: All right. We're going to get into some of the rules now. And Jimmy, you are so spot on with some of the things that you talked about earlier. Because the golden rule number one is be present. And I know this sounds repetitive and simple, but we have to put it into practice. Because this is the one of, one of the key ways to really be with the other person.
Juliana Sih: We got to be present. You know, we're often thinking about the future, the past, how it's gone, how much you know this person, how much you know about their problems. And then we can't be with who they are in this moment. I'll share a story about a time with my boss. Hang on. Oops. When I thought I was being present and I wasn't.
Juliana Sih: So I was in a one on one with my boss, and they were walking me through some, like, crucial technical aspects of my job, and she was like, dropping some gems, some insights, things that would have made me better, faster, more effective. But where was I in my head? I was miles away. I was like thinking about some personal problem that needed fixing.
Juliana Sih: So on the outside I look like I was listening. I was nodding, making eye contact, even throwing in the occasional but I wasn't actually there. And then I realized at some point that I was just completely lost. And I had no idea what she was just saying. And instead of owning up to it and interrupting her and being like, hey, can you like, repeat that?
Juliana Sih: Or can you say that again? Some way to get back, engage in the and the conversation? I was too embarrassed to just do that. So I just kept nodding, hoping she wouldn't notice. And by the time I walked away, I knew that conversation had been really a complete waste of time. I had missed something important, something that could have helped me grow simply because I wasn't truly listening.
Juliana Sih: And here's a real impact, right? Not only did I miss out, but my boss wasted her time pouring knowledge into someone who wasn't even present. And that's the thing about listening. It's not just about hearing the words knowledge. It's about like doing the the the gestures. It's about showing up and being fully present and respecting the person speaking by actually taking in what they're sharing.
Juliana Sih: Like the one of the key ways to build respect is by acknowledging and listening to the other person, especially in a world of so many distractions. So one of the things you mentioned earlier, Jenny, was put away your distractions. One of the simplest things we can do is put away our distractions. Right. I don't need you to throw your phone out, but, yeah, put your phone away.
Juliana Sih: Put it on silent. If you're on a zoom call and you know all your windows distract you, close them all down. Keep it simple so that you can put all your attention. On to the other person. If you know that being in the office is distracting for you to be present and you can't focus, go have a one on one out on a walk.
Juliana Sih: Get creative with what works for you. I tell people, like, if you're meeting someone at a coffee shop and you know you're facing the door is going to be distracting because you're just going to watch people going back, you know, in and out, like face the other way. So these are just like simple things you can do to start being more present with people.
Juliana Sih: Because at the end of the day, people are always revealing something about themselves for a reason. And as a listener, it's your job to try to find out. Why are they telling me this? Why is this important to them? What does it say about their values, their worldview, and what they care about? And I think one of the things that we forget is we have to be responsible for minimizing distractions, right?
Juliana Sih: Like, if, you know, like when me and my husband try to have a conversation and the kids are around, we can't have a conversation because, you know, two minutes in, my daughter wants something, the other one's crying. So I have to be be intentional and create a space. Honey, let's talk when the kids are asleep. And then I have to remember to go back and do that.
Juliana Sih: So this can look many different ways for each relationship in your life, but you need to figure out what works for you, right? To be present if it you know, I think we talked about this in another webinar, Jimmy, where when you cross a bridge, you don't talk about any more work, right? If you work together and are married and have a business together, like you have that bridge where you, don't talk about work anymore, that's very similar.
Juliana Sih: Like be present, like set yourself up to be present. Get curious with other person. Create an internal game for yourself. You know, ask why are they sharing this? What? What has them share in this room? Why is this important to them? What are they experiencing as they share them? So getting curious, asking questions. And I think the thing that we really forget is it's okay if there's silence in between.
Juliana Sih: We're so used to thinking that we need to fill in the space, that we need to think of our response. We don't. If there's like a three second silent pause, that's okay. Just let them know that you're thinking about your response and you're really absorbing the information that they're giving you. Oh, I realized, sorry. The other thing to do is start a simple practice of meditation.
Juliana Sih: I think I think one of the most important things that we can do as humans in general is like learn how to quiet our mind. And that's what presence is also with other people. If we can learn to quiet our mind and train ourselves either through meditation or through other practices, then that can really help people be present.
Juliana Sih: Something else that you can put your focus on as you're being present is notice if someone is stating some contradiction, you know, like if someone is saying that, they're doing fine, but they look really sad, or they're saying, that they're really excited about something, but then they on another set and this sentence, they say they're really mad.
Juliana Sih: Notice start noticing those contradiction. The real powerful thing about listening is that you can help the person speaking see themselves in a new way.
Juliana Sih: Okay. We're going to go on to Golden rule number two. Jimmy, you talked about this too. So I love it. Listen, without judgment. Yeah, judge. And I don't mean judgment, like in a bad way. I think this is, you know, what is judgment. Let's talk about that for a second. Judgment is a mental habit of labeling or categorizing someone's word are literally judgment making machines.
Juliana Sih: That's how we evolved. That's how we've probably survived, is we need to be able to evaluate people fairly quickly. But there's also probably holding us back now, it's often based on our past experiences, past conditioning, and often it looks like being right or wrong, agreeing or disagreeing. And it's really a self-protection mechanism. Part of the reason, why we judge is because our egos like to be right.
Juliana Sih: We want to be right. So it's a self-protection mechanism. We don't want to be we don't want to be vulnerable. So we try to fill in what we already know about the person. So we don't have to be in the unknown. Like, for example, if you like, label someone as, let's say, like you label someone, let's say you're going to go into a conversation and you already know this person is kind of like you think they're a jerk, right?
Juliana Sih: You're going to experience them as being a jerk just because you already have that prejudgment about them. So that's that's kind of the impact of judge, judging is that we it's a filter. It acts as a filter in our listening. If you know you're going to meet someone and they're energetic and fun, you're going to show up differently than if you think they're a jerk.
Juliana Sih: So those judgments will filter what we hear and what we see in the person. Does that make sense?
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, yeah, it totally does. Not only from, prejudging somebody for for where you think they are, but there's also that judgment that says under these same circumstances, I had something similar happened to me before, and this is what I learned from it. And this is what I want to avoid. You may need to ask more questions because not all circumstances are the same.
Jimmy Lea: Not all conditions are the same. It might be a different situation and asking more questions will help you to discover. Yes, you've had this great experience in the past that's helped you to ask the right questions today to avoid conflict.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, yeah. And that's what judgment does. That really shuts down our curiosity and our empathy with it, which are like two cornerstones of listening. And then we have we think we can mind read or know who they are. So letting go of judgment is really important when it comes to listening. And it's all about awareness with judgment, like, what are we judging about?
Juliana Sih: Who, what, what do I think about this person? Sometimes it's as simple as just like writing out what you think. So you can see it on paper. And the real reason why letting go of our judgments is important is because then we can understand the context of a conversation, and the context means understanding the full story behind what someone else's, what someone is saying.
Juliana Sih: When you understand your judgment, you can move the conversation from content to context. So content is just like what's being said. The words, facts, data, surface level, information, context is a deeper meaning behind what is being said includes emotions, intentions, perspective, the bigger picture you want to get. Like the 10,000ft view of why is your employee telling you this?
Juliana Sih: Like do they have a suggestion? Do they want to make an improvement? Or are they struggling and frustrated? Do they need time off? Sometimes when people are sharing, they're all in the content. And if you can put your judgment down and you can get to the 10,000ft view, then you can understand their context of the conversation. You don't want to be in the weeds as a leader.
Juliana Sih: You want to be in the context. Understanding the bigger picture of why they're sharing, what they're sharing. So, you know, context. What's being said. Staying here leads to reacting rather than understanding. Just imagine like, you you know, I can't believe I have to stay late at work again. Right? From content, you might be like, oh, well, you know, maybe it's really busy.
Juliana Sih: I'm sorry, you have to say, like, maybe you're going to try to make them feel better, right? Versus maybe what they're if you're looking at it from a context point of view, you're going to understand what's really being expressed. Are they frustrated? Are they feeling unappreciated? Are they feeling disrespected or they're feeling like their boundaries aren't aren't being honored?
Juliana Sih: That's the power of being able to uplevel the conversation and getting into the context.
Juliana Sih: So context means understanding the full story. It means what's really going on here? Why is this person, what does this person feeling or need right now? This behind every complaint is a need. But people don't know how to share their need directly. So they might be complaining or, or be shut down. It depends on the person. So if you want to stop judgment in real time, there are few things you can do right?
Juliana Sih: Take a breath, breathe. And just like try to bring yourself back into the present because the judgment is all up here in our head thinking right? Get back down to the breath, acknowledge the bias. Maybe recognize you know, I like to I like to name my judgment. I like to name him Bob. Oh Bob's around like oh is he like trying to protect me.
Juliana Sih: What is, what is Bob need right now. Right. Because it is a self-protection like judging is a self-protection mechanism and sometimes it's needed but also acknowledging like oh Bob's around. Oh Bob, I don't really need you. You can take you can, you can be in the back seat. Thanks, I got this. I can drive a car.
Jimmy Lea: That's funny. That's really good. I acknowledging the bias. I think that is probably going to help me a lot. Going forward, because, I want to listen better. I want to not judge according to past. And my might have to park Bob for a minute. Yeah. So I can listen without the prejudice of of things of of the past.
Juliana Sih: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Something that I also find helpful, but I didn't share in the being present is maybe find something that helps you be present. Right. When I started coaching, I would just doodle on paper. I wasn't like trying to be an artist, but I would just doodle because it would help me to, listen better. By just like writing on my page, like writing little drawing little things on my paper.
Juliana Sih: So sometimes maybe it's like you have a squishy ball where it's just like, you know, that physical thing that helps you to be present.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Juliana Sih: But yeah, and also naming that part of you, we all have different personalities. We all have like a little internal family, and they all have different roles, but they're not always needed. Bob doesn't need to be here. Thank you, Bob, for being here. I see you, I hear you take a backseat. Please. Stopping judgment in real time can look like asking any questions, right?
Juliana Sih: If you're asking questions, you're more concerned with the other person. You're not in your head judging or do an empathy check with the other person, like, oh, what is this person actually feeling like? Put yourself in your shoes and that will get you outside of your head, inside of the judgment. And the outcome of that really is helping the person that you're talking to feel understood, connected, seen and heard.
Juliana Sih: It's really all about them feeling safe with you because that's when they trust you, and that's when you have more influence. All right. Moving on to, golden rule number three. I think someone mentioned in the comments before, but we're going to talk about it, reflect and reflect. Rephrase.
Jimmy Lea: So Mary was talking about that with the mirroring repeating what they're saying. So yeah. Thank you Mary that this is rule number three.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. Rule number three. And this practice is really powerful because when you reflect and validate, it shows the person not only that you're listening and you're there, but that you truly understand them, that you honor their experience. And these are some of the keys to building trust, empathy, and stronger connection. Because as I mentioned earlier, most people don't know what is coming out of their mouth.
Juliana Sih: So being their mirror helps individuals gain clarity and insight into their own thoughts and emotions, and knowing this will help them make more informed decision. Also, this is a great way to use some of those CPAs of our brain as it ensures that we're listening and understanding what they're saying, because people just want to feel understood. And that's the simplest way to start a rephrase and reflect conversation, as you say.
Juliana Sih: Like what I'm hearing is I think people think that you have to parrot the exact same words, and that's not what you need to do at all. You need to summarize and rephrase what the person is saying, and make sure that you're on the same page with them so that you're really getting what they're saying. The power of this reflection and rephrase is amazing in resolving conflict because it shifts the focus from it.
Juliana Sih: Shift the focus for me, the spotlight on me to the other person. Right. And that's important because when we're in a conflict, there's a lot of emotions in the space, and the conversation is often not very constructive. Let's say, for example, you know, I tell my husband, you never help around the house, right? If my husband goes into like, well, actually, you know, I take the garbage out and, you know, I did this for the kids and I did that for the kids, that would not lead to any good, fruitful conversation.
Juliana Sih: What now? If he said something like, sounds like you're feeling overwhelmed with the household chores, how can we balance things out? Can you see how that would be a very different conversation from going into defense? Because then there's collaboration. Then it's people getting on the same page and feeling heard. And that's the power of rephrasing and reflecting.
Juliana Sih: It's like people feel heard. They feel seen. And they open up to you. And it also reduces emotional escalation. When people are emotion, people tend to react quickly. When people react quickly, we want to go into defense. We want to use that self-protection mechanism. When we can rephrase things, we slow down the conversation and we tune into the present and we slow things down.
Juliana Sih: And then the reframing helps shift from the negative emotions to potential solutions. So the next time you are going to argument, I challenge for for everyone here, use the reframe and reflect and see what happens. It's going to be it's a it's a game changer because you're not going to go into defense trying to defend yourself. You're going to go into potential solutions.
Jimmy Lea: Julianne, I really like that. Because I, I personally, feel like when I'm attacked, I and I go on the defense, I need to put in a whole ton of grace into that situation, which I'm going to implement going forward, is reflecting back and trying to certainly de-escalate the situation about the house and the chores and not doing things.
Juliana Sih: Yes, yes. And then there will be collaboration. You'll be on the same page again, because when you're on the opposite team, you're you're fighting, you know, in some way, shape or form. And the reflecting and rephrasing will help you get back on the same team with some solutions versus just talking about the problem. So here's why this works.
Juliana Sih: It reduces misunderstandings and the emotional escalation. It promotes empathy and understanding. Connections shifts from a reactive response to a thoughtful dialog, and it encourages collaborative problem solving. So I was going to, oh, sorry.
Jimmy Lea: Oh.
Juliana Sih: So here's the practice for you to take on the next time you're in a conflict. The next time you want to use this, reflect and reflect. Just pause and listen fully focus on the words that are being said. Focus on what they're doing with their body language and then rephrase it. Rephrase what they said to you to make sure you're understanding.
Juliana Sih: Because when we're in our emotions, we have that filter, right? We have like a similar filter to judgments that can alter emotions, make us poor listeners, to be honest. Like when we're either when we're excited or also negatively like if were frustrated. So that makes us, our listening goes down when we're having those strong emotions. So by rephrasing and reframing, you can get back to the present and make sure you're in the conversation.
Juliana Sih: So here's an example. No one at work is listening to my ideas, right? Someone could say, oh, that's not true. Like I listen to your ideas. You have really good ideas. You might try to be making them feel better. You might try to be like minimizing their experience. But the power of reframe and rephrase is, oh, it sounds like you're feeling frustrated and move it.
Juliana Sih: Maybe even a little dismissed. That shifts where the conversation will go.
Juliana Sih: So I have a practice for you, to do, homework. I want you to practice with someone I want you can do this with anyone, whether it's with your spouse, with your business partner. But I just want you to for two minutes. Just share a little bit about the context of this exercise for two minutes.
Juliana Sih: I want one person to share a short frustration, and then the other person is just going to listen. And then they're going to practice rephrasing and reflecting. They're going to listen. They're going to practice reflecting reflecting and then just switch. So go practice it with your partner and go practice it with a friend. Get someone enrolled and doing this I wanted to do this live, but we're in a we don't quite have breakout rooms like I was hoping.
Juliana Sih: So, do this at home, though. Do this at home. Because, really, I mean, I want you to imagine a world where you're running a meeting and everyone's feeling heard and engaged. Kind of like at Google, right? The best teams, they feel heard, they're engaged, they feel like they're making a contribution. Imagine if your team was running like that.
Juliana Sih: Imagine if your relationships with loved ones or colleagues felt easier with less conflicts. Imagine instead of reacting, you can be fully present and listen. That's the power of building the skill. So just to kind of recap, we've gone through the three golden rules of listening. Stay present, listen instead of judging, reflect and rephrase. Now I created a cheat sheet that I want to share with you all.
Juliana Sih: Where it's going to help you to nail communication. It's this cheat sheet has like kind of all the golden rules, plus a few things. And what I want you to do with this guide is I want you to download it. I'm going to have a QR code on the next slide, and then I want you to print it out, print out this cheat sheet.
Juliana Sih: And then I want you to practice one of these each day. Use the Kiss method message method. Keep it simple. Just pick one and utilize that one per day. The great thing about listening and deepening the skill is that intention and practice go a long way. Literally, you can increase your listening skills by 30% just by kind of knowing these things and practicing it regularly.
Juliana Sih: So here's a QR code for the cheat sheet. Go ahead and do that. Now print it out. Pick one that you do daily. Put it in in your office or somewhere you can see it and then practice it consistently. Literally. You can change the way you listen with just something as simple as this. And then, of course, there are a few more golden rules to listening, right?
Juliana Sih: We talked about the first three today. And then of course there's asking powerful questions which we kind of touched upon, as Jimmy, as we were talking. The next golden rule is be curious. The next golden rule is watch for those nonverbal cues, whether it's in yourself or others. And number seven, acknowledge and stay silent. So I know we're up at how are we doing a time, Jimmy?
Jimmy Lea: We're right up at the end. I mean, like, professionally, you've entered exactly on time.
Juliana Sih: Okay. I'm just going to leave it at that. I did have a few more things to share, but if anyone is ready to learn more about the next Golden Rules, please book a quick call with me. And I'd be happy to share more because I do have a little mini course kind of sharing all of these seven rules that I'm going to be doing.
Juliana Sih: So if you're interested in learning more and you want to unlock the seven Golden Rules, please book a call with me and we can chat about it. And then.
Jimmy Lea: That's it. Nice. Oh my gosh, such great information. Julianna, thank you so much. This is how people can communicate with you. Send an email to coach at Giuliana cch.com C is ach.com. And this is your office phone number (831) 245-5362. Yep. All right. Very good. That's awesome. Well thank you so much, Julianna. And I hope that we can be better listeners.
Jimmy Lea: It's definitely something that is hard work, something you have to consciously, effectively do every day. All day is listening. Listening to yourself, listening to that other person.
Juliana Sih: Yes. And that's a beautiful thing. You can practice every single time you talk to someone. You can just be like, oh yeah, let me practice that presence. Oh yeah, let me practice that rephrasing and reframing. There's always an opportunity to practice and there's simple. But yes, it's hard Jimmy. It's simple consistency just like learning the piano. But we all have we all have the instrument already.
Juliana Sih: We just got to learn how to use it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that instrument's there. We got to learn how to use it. And once we do, we'll play beautiful music. Nice. Well, thank you very much. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute for Motor Business Excellence. My guest today, Julianne C with Crescendo Coaching a life coach. She has a tremendous friend and I appreciate you being here.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much.
Juliana Sih: Thank you.
Jimmy Lea: Talk to you guys soon. Thank you.

Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
115 - 3 Essential Steps to Save Your Home and Your Business With Wayne Marshall
Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
Wednesday Apr 02, 2025
115 - 3 Essential Steps to Save Your Home and Your Business With Wayne Marshall
March 18th, 2025 - 00:56:44
Show Summary:
In this insightful episode, Donny Seyfer from WTI and Jimmy Lea, from the Institute, hosts a special podcast featuring Wayne Marshall, Interim CEO of The Institute to tackle a critical topic for small business owners, how to protect your home and your business through the proper legal and tax structures. The conversation focuses heavily on LLCs, S Corps, and C Corps, demystifying the differences and outlining the benefits and risks of each. Real-world scenarios highlight the consequences of not setting up a legal firewall between personal and business finances. Wayne provides practical advice on taxes, ownership structure, planning for a sale, and maximizing profitability. Listeners walk away with clear guidance, actionable steps, and a new sense of urgency around legal compliance and business structure.
Host(s):
Donny Seyfer, National Automotive Service Task Force
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
Wayne Marshall, Industry Coach
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:21] - Many shops are operating without legal protection, putting their homes and future at risk.
[00:03:02] - 95% of U.S. businesses make less than $3M annually, laying the foundation correctly is crucial.
[00:04:24] - LLCs offer tax flexibility and create a vital firewall between your business and personal assets.
[00:07:26] - LLCs allow for separation of finances, tax structure options, and credibility with banks.
[00:11:03] - Failing to separate business finances can result in major IRS penalties and even losing your home.
[00:14:27] - Pay yourself a reasonable salary and take additional profit as dividends to reduce taxes.
[00:18:06] - Commingling funds hurts valuation - $13K in personal spending can cost $120K at sale.
[00:23:58] - LLCs are ideal for most small business owners, especially those making over $60K annually.
[00:32:35] - Life insurance and annuities can secure your business in succession or ownership changes.
[00:50:57] - Track your net worth yearly to measure real progress and business impact over time.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpHnWSHicMQ
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
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Want access to our online classes? Click Here
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Jimmy Lea: If you're not having fun doing it, then you're doing it wrong. We're gonna have a great time. We have a phenomenal discussion gonna be happening here. Donny, do you wanna kick it off with any words in the beginning here or what? What? What's your M.O.
Donny Seyfer: M.O. Well, I just wanna say thank you to the institute for agreeing to do this for us.
Donny Seyfer: It's been something we've talked about for a while, and Jimmy and I met up at APEX and SEMA and I said, Hey. How about we do a session, because we've got some, we've got members who've had some really interesting things happen to their businesses and I said, I told 'em, let's call this thing how to lose your business in two minutes, and they're like.
Donny Seyfer: Maybe we better not do that. So I thank you guys for doing this for everybody and and everybody that, that showed up to listen. I'm gonna turn it over to you and just listen in.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Awesome. Well, thank you for being here. And thank you for meeting up at the conference.
Jimmy Lea: That was super awesome. We, we catch caught each other there in the I think it was in the elevator, the escalator we were coming down. Donny says, Hey we really wanna do this webinar about, we gotta help our shops and our companies and our businesses and our members. They're losing their business.
Jimmy Lea: They're operating dangerously. And I said, oh, so you're, you want something around the lines of how to protect your home? How do you not lose your home in 30 seconds? 'cause there's so many businesses out there that are operating without the protection of a corporation. And that's what we're gonna talk about here today is essential steps to save your home and save your business.
Jimmy Lea: Joining me today in our webinar is Wayne Marshall. Wayne is with the Institute. We are excited to have him here with us as our interim CEO. Thank you for being here.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. And everybody who's aware Cecil Bullard has been through some surgery. He is in recovery. He's doing extremely well. He's been into the office twice now.
Jimmy Lea: And it was only a week and a day ago that he had some brain surgery. So that is one resilient. Resilient man. Pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. This is to be an interactive webinar. Interactive webinar in that we want to know what you are thinking. We want to know your questions. You've got questions.
Jimmy Lea: We've got the answers. We're gonna talk a lot today about. Corporations and incorporating and how to do it, why to do it, what are some great ways to do that? To, because this is gonna help to protect you and that's what we wanna do here, is to be able to protect you. So Wayne, we brought in Wayne.
Jimmy Lea: Wayne I have your slide deck here, so when you give me the signal, we'll make it happen.
Wayne Marshall: So, yes, you can go back.
Jimmy Lea: Got it.
Wayne Marshall: So it's an honor to be here because when you stop and look at, you can look at the statistics too. Come from the Department of Labor. 95% of all businesses that are in our country operating today do $3 million, is less in revenue.
Wayne Marshall: So when they say the small businessman is the backbone.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it totally is.
Wayne Marshall: It really is. When you look at this and you start thinking about how small businesses start and grow and they get going, many of 'em do start just as we see in our industry.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah.
Wayne Marshall: As a small might be one person, two people, and eventually they start to grow and they start to increase those revenue.
Wayne Marshall: But it becomes really critical and very important whenever you get started that you start doing things and you build the right foundation. So that when you get ready to take some of those next steps and you start to add an employee, or you might say, I want to have my own facility or own building or property, that you make those moves that put you in the right position legally,
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Wayne Marshall: that gives you the right things you want, but also that you start giving some forethought to the right moves you want to make, so you put yourself in the right place, taxable. Because like me, I don't want to pay any more tax than I need to. And there's things you do when you start thinking about that corporate structure that can and will make a difference.
Wayne Marshall: And we're gonna point out a few of those things for consideration. And also hopefully through some of this we'll be able to look at this. It gives us some of that scalability.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Of where we began starting small, but giving us the opportunity to go and get it up to that bigger level that we wanna get into.
Jimmy Lea: We want to, we wanna, we want to grow the business. We want to be protected by the business. We want to protect you on the business as well. And for those of you who are in the audience, you're listening to this live the q and a in the bottom section of your window for the zoom in the q and a.
Jimmy Lea: That's where you want to put in your questions. And just to make sure that this works for everybody. I wanna give you a shout out, go to the q and a and type in where you're joining us from today. If you wanna put the name of your shop, your business your mobile business at city and State, love to give you a shout out.
Jimmy Lea: I wanna make sure that this q and A is working. So if you're listening, yes, we do want you to type that in there. Virginia. Got Bruno from Virginia. Kyle from Crystal River, Florida. Oh, you guys are awesome. John from East Ohio. Lawrence in New Jersey. Rock on. Thank you so much you guys. Yes, it is definitely working now.
Jimmy Lea: Jacob Bell. Jacob Bell from J Tech Automotive Solutions, Tucson, Arizona. Jacob, welcome, glad to have you here with us. Jeff from St. Paul, Minnesota and Jeremy from Columbia, Kentucky. You guys rock. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for participating. You've got questions, we've got some answers.
Jimmy Lea: We've got a lot of really great information to help protect you, help protect your home, help protect your future retirement, your future of everything.
Wayne Marshall: Benefits.
Jimmy Lea: Because you don't want to lose everything because of a mistake, an accident, and the way to do that is to protect yourself.
Wayne Marshall: So let's jump to this first slide. Many people are very familiar with the different structures that come.
Jimmy Lea: Put your mic a little closer?
Wayne Marshall: Is that a little better?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Richard's saying can't quite hear. And this is Wayne Marshall. I know you think it's Cecil. Cecil had surgery a week ago. This is Wayne Richard. No. Jeff. Jeff. Can you hear Richard better?
Jimmy Lea: I mean, Richard, can you hear Marshall better? How's that, Michael? We good? Okay. Rock on.
Wayne Marshall: So let's jump to that first slide that we talked about. Most people are very familiar with some of the different structures that are out there, and most people at the small businesses are taking advantage of just putting together an LLC, and we all are familiar with within that LLC, there's a lot you can do, but on top of an LLC, you can also do an escort.
Wayne Marshall: Which is a sole proprietorship, or ultimately you can have a C court. C Corp are usually regulated to more of the larger companies and the things you're gonna do. And what I've always done, I've had and started and sold many of businesses in my career and I've done every one of those as an LLC.
Wayne Marshall: And one of the things that's really great about that LLC is we're saying at the very top, it's gives you limited personal liability. It becomes that firewall and that shield from you and your personal. Your home, your savings, all the other things to what you're doing on a business. So those debts and those things that are going on there can not transfer over and affect you on a personal level, and that's what you want to do because you never know when something happens, especially when you get a little larger.
Wayne Marshall: You might have an employee or something else could go on within those that can affect your company and that limits you from having anything cross over into your home or putting in at risk. It also gives you a lot of tax flexibility that you can pick how you wanna do your taxability of the income and the money that you can make on that.
Wayne Marshall: If you're in an LLC, you can choose to file as a business as that LLC. You can choose to file as a sole proprietorship or you know, the S corp. And you can even choose in an LLC to be incorporated and fire taxes as if you were a C corp. Obviously you want to probably stay to where it's the most easiest, and we'll talk a little bit about, and I've got a few key things that we'll be sharing as we get into it.
Wayne Marshall: The other thing that's nice about an LLC is there's less formality or compliance requirements that you come into. If you take a C Corp as an example, many of your large corporations are C Corp. There's a tax. Ability of it that's higher than what you're gonna get as a personal business owner. And the other thing of it is that you're gonna have much more structure, in a lot of cases, even the requirement to create shareholder board meetings and other things that can come into play.
Wayne Marshall: One of the other things that's really nice about once you start forming your legal corporation or your LLC, is you enhance your overall credibility, but you bring legal protection. So think about what you're doing and you don't want to be sitting there and have a, your. Business finances, co-mingling with your personal finances.
Wayne Marshall: If you create an LLC, you're gonna get a tax EIN number. You take that EIN number, you can go to your bank. You can then create that bank account. You don't co-mingle your monies. You keep it separate, which again, keeps you in that credibility and legal protection because you can start talking about and how you're gonna receive in the handling of those funds.
Wayne Marshall: And then the last thing that we talk about is very flexible ownership and management. Just because you. Start the LLC, you can have what they call a manager managed LLC. Someone else can manage it, someone else can run it for you. As you get bigger and you say, I don't want to sell my business, but I want someone else maybe to run it now.
Wayne Marshall: And you can have a manager run the LLC that you still own. And it gives you that flexibility where obviously when you get in some of the other absentees, you don't get all that flexibility and there's much more compliance that you have to deal with.
Wayne Marshall: So those are some of the key benefits of, and the most and biggest is number one, you wanna create that firewall.
Wayne Marshall: You want to separate your business life, business, money, all the things that go on from your home. So you don't get into a litigious situation where someone can tie it all together. You can say, Nope, everything stops with the LLC.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Ha has have the, do you know of any situations where someone was operating as a sole proprietor?
Jimmy Lea: And they got into a sticky situation. Do you know any of those situations?
Wayne Marshall: Most people that I have seen, yes I do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And most people who have not filed and done, they end up in a tax scenario. And the IRS, they get kind of funny with their money and they think they always gotta have it. And if you don't keep those two things separated, which comes down to some of the things that we're talking about in number four and five.
Wayne Marshall: You got that flexibility, you get credibility, you get the bank account set up. Right. You can keep those things where they don't look at it in a funny way. Yeah. So because he never separated out and you just kept running everything through him as a person under a social security number, because you don't have a tax number of an EIN.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: The business now it's gotta go to your social security. Yeah. He ended up about 400,000 in the rears with IRS. Oh boy. Lost his house, lost everything. 'cause he didn't have the firewall.
Jimmy Lea: Oh boy.
Wayne Marshall: So they don't like that?
Jimmy Lea: No, they don't like that. They don't like that at all.
Wayne Marshall: That's probably one of the more extreme cases.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that would be an extreme case, but that's also what can happen if you're not set up right.
Wayne Marshall: That is correct.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Wayne Marshall: Very much correct. So let's jump into, if you want, we can jump to some of the tax benefits. I did share, and I know this slide is a little bit. Busier than the other. But the first thing, and one of the biggest benefits of the LLC is that you have pass through taxation.
Wayne Marshall: And what happens is if you're a C Corp, as an example, you have to pay a 21% corporate tax, but then you gotta pay tax again on the income that you make. Soon end up paying tax on it twice.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Wayne Marshall: And if it's just passed through, there is no business tax. It only passes through you and then it comes back to your personal taxes when you file, where you'll be getting your K one or other things.
Wayne Marshall: And if you work with any of your local, a county professional or tax repair, they can help you work through these things. That can help you do, but it helps you on your tax standpoint. Which is a good thing to have. The other thing is obviously you can have the, we talked about it earlier a little bit, was very flexible tax classifications, and then you can decide.
Wayne Marshall: Most people, once they get into an LLC, they keep it down to a sole proprietorship or partnership...
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Wayne Marshall: If you bring someone in and they don't do anything with an S or a C, even though you could. But you wanna avoid that begin 'cause of the taxable aspect of what you're gonna get and you can get into a lower tax bracket, right?
Wayne Marshall: That you want to keep. Obviously if as soon as you become an LLC there's a lot you can start running through, that becomes deductible business expense. So many of us people we've o and I did it many do you start thinking of having a company vehicle.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Other activities that go on. You maybe need a new computer or laptop.
Wayne Marshall: Sure. Am I gonna use it at home? Yes. Am I gonna use it for business? Yes. I'm gonna use it as a business deduction. And there's other things that can come into play that helps. Because now that becomes a deductible expense. You don't have to pay tax.
Jimmy Lea: Because it's a business expense.
Wayne Marshall: Because it's a business expense that you can come into.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Obviously there's a self-employment tax savings. There's things that can come into play here that really becomes nice under the LLC. Okay. And I know we tell a lot as I coach people also, we tell them this a lot, that it pay yourself a reasonable salary.
Jimmy Lea: As an owner?
Wayne Marshall: As an owner, but take that additional profits at distribution because if it's a W2 income that's taxed at one rate.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Dividends or profits. If you do a distribution or an earning payment out, that's at a lower tax rate.
Wayne Marshall: So as you start to go up, and if you get to a point. Like I was, we tell some of our coaching clients, Jimmy, is we get to a certain point that I tell people, if you're gonna pay yourself about 90,000, talk to your tax professional.
Wayne Marshall: Don't exceed that. Talk to 'em about doing dividends. If you're having a really good year,
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Wayne Marshall: pull it out as dividends 'cause it's taxed at a lower rate and it won't take you to the next tax bracket.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Wayne Marshall: So it's a way to also help save money and not give it to. IRS keep more of it in your pocket and or reinvest in your company.
Wayne Marshall: The other things that have happened here in the last few years is there's been some different things that have passed legislatively that, and again, those tax professionals can help you get into the qualified business income deduction, along with some of the tax cuts and job acts that can help qualify you for a one time 20% deduction.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: On different income. Because they're trying to help the small business person keep the money so they can reinvest. 'cause again, I go back to 95% of all small businesses. Or what we have in the United States that is the backbone and the more that we can put in their pockets, the government's saying that's more reinvestment, that helps them bring more money back to the IRS eventually.
Wayne Marshall: 'cause they're helping to grow the economy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And that's a significant tax savings too, to give.
Jimmy Lea: There's a I think there's a misnomer or a misconception within the industry that says. I as a company owner, as the corporation owner, I can't take a paycheck. Is that true?
Wayne Marshall: No. You wanna, like we said, you wanna be really mindful of how much you take,
Jimmy Lea: right?
Wayne Marshall: That can put you into a higher taxable event than if you keep it lower and it'd be no different. I mean, as small business people, we start to grow. And I started in rented space, some of my companies. Eventually, I got to a point I said, you know. Instead of paying rent, I'd rather own and let it help pay for the mortgage and create more wealth.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: And change my overall net worth. 'cause now I have commercial property that I've bought. So again, I started another LLC that owns the property that I then now pay to them out of the first LLC, the company. And now there's other things you can do that helps because I can also pay extra to the property LLC and the IRS, for the most part, if you're paying an extra 15% above what the going rate is for a lease, you can put that into a maintenance fund.
Jimmy Lea: Sure.
Wayne Marshall: It's not taxed.
Jimmy Lea: For the cams.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, for the cams, but it's not taxed. So now you got more cash sitting there that's giving you the opportunity to do other things and reinvest.
Wayne Marshall: And do things within your property or other stuff. So again, a good tax prepare, a good account can help you navigate these waters. But it's so important to start and have those right business entities.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: Get 'em legal. Get the LLC, get your EIN, keep your money separated. Your personal or business don't co-mingle. That can create you issues, but you can start to create and it'll improve your overall net worth. And. Build it.
Jimmy Lea: What advice would you give the shop owner or the business owner that currently is commingling their funds?
Wayne Marshall: You're hurting yourself.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: So think about it this way and we I talked to one of our coaching clients and I'm looking at his p and ls and we're talking, and one of the things he's trying to do is increase the overall value of his company.
Wayne Marshall: He wants to, in the next three to five years, sell his company. Any good person that's gonna come in and do their due diligence or the discipline to look at the financial is gonna go back to three years. Well, we're going through and I said, well wait a minute, gentlemen on this. I won't say his name, but I said, I see $13,000 that was spent at Walmart.
Wayne Marshall: And he goes, well, yeah, that's my groceries, that's this, that's that. And I said, okay, I get it. And you can do that. And there's some gray area.
Jimmy Lea: Sure.
Wayne Marshall: But here's what it meant. I, and I explained to him, I said, okay, so you spent 13,000 this year, and if we go in the arrears three years, and you do that every year, so that's 13, that's 26, that's 39,000, let's say $40,000.
Jimmy Lea: Okay?
Wayne Marshall: And you're trying to sell the company and you want to get three x or four x on your ebitda, that was $40,000 that used in personal, that was really profit for the company. Take that 40,000 now times three X ebitda. That's $120,000 less you're gonna get when you sell your company.
Jimmy Lea: Ouch.
Wayne Marshall: And all of a sudden he is like, yeah, I'm not gaining anything by doing it through the company. I said, you're not.
Jimmy Lea: No. Clean up your clean up your finances.
Wayne Marshall: Don't mingle 'em together because where it can hurt you, especially if you're trying to get to a point that you want to sell your company.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: You don't want any of those personal expenses because that's gonna make the company not look as profitable and that might help you today in taxes.
Wayne Marshall: But that $13,000 is gonna end up costing him 120,000 or more 160 if he got four x. Ebitda. So that is why you want to be really careful.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: About how much of some fringe personal things.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And you can do it.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: You're not gonna get in trouble with the IRS unless you get really aggressive on it.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: But if you're thinking you're gonna be in a position to sell, or you're gonna bring a partner in that maybe wants to buy into your business, you wanna look the best you can look.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And you wanna maximize those bottom line earnings. That's where it's hurting you, and that's where it can really multiply up big.
Jimmy Lea: So at what point do you start the process that says, Hey, you know what, I'm ready to sell my business now. Should we start today with that process? Or do you start two years down the road.
Wayne Marshall: I tell everybody that we talk to, with our clients, if you think you're gonna want to sell your business and you tell me I'm gonna do it in the next year.
Wayne Marshall: We can do a few things, but we're not gonna move the needle much. Yeah. You need almost a minimum of three years to really clean it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And make year after year look good. Right. 'cause when they look, they're gonna take those three year numbers, they're gonna average it out, and that's where your multipliers gonna come from.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. I hear it said all the time that three to five years.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Three to five years is what it takes. But really and truly. You should start today.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: I started my business yesterday. Good. A good habit. Start today and build that habit.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, good.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. So one of the things, I don't know, do we, I think we had some questions there. Anything here that we should stop and talk?
Jimmy Lea: Let's see if we have any questions yet.
Jimmy Lea: Nope, no questions yet.
Wayne Marshall: Alright. Just wanna make sure, because I see on the screen here and I see something popping. I'm like, oh no. It's big deal. One of the things that we get asked, and it's like one of our coaching clients right now jimmy is he's going from a C-corp and he's moving it over to an S-corp. And a lot of this is because of the tax taxation aspect of, and he's also in a position, just as we talked about, that he's trying to get ready to sell his business
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: And transfer out. And he's trying to maximize his income.
Wayne Marshall: And with a C corp, you're limited. On what you can take out of it. And I, and obviously it's gonna be just on your W2, if you get into an S or you get into some of the things we're already talking about, where you got flexibility, he can get more cash out in earnings in the short term. That will help maximize and then also put 'em in a better position.
Wayne Marshall: Because most companies, unless you're a large company, and when I say large, I'm talking 50, a hundred million and more, you don't want to be a C Corp and it's gonna limit his. Possibilities of selling without restructuring his company. So he is in the process of doing it. So one of the things we get into conversations with him here recently, which I wanted to share a little bit more, which is on that next slide, is, which is right for you?
Wayne Marshall: And again, it's like he's doing, we started talking about these things, but at the end of the day, I says, you know, again, your accountant knows better what should be done, how to do it. They know your personal situation, but. One of the best things, again, if you're just in a default LLC taxation, you can see what happens when you sit there with the pass through.
Wayne Marshall: And basically when you're a self-employed, you're at a 15.3 tax. That's a lot lower than what's gonna be on a W2.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure.
Wayne Marshall: And those are some of the benefits that you get when you start looking at this thing with your profit pass through on your personal taxes and some of the things you can do with the earnings and it, I mean, and it's perfect.
Wayne Marshall: Perfect for that small business owner I. Without employees for most part even. Or if you got one or two employees, it's the perfect place to be.
Jimmy Lea: So that single member LLC.
Wayne Marshall: Yep. Keep it simple. Keep it simple, and. Like I said, there's the benefits of if you go to and you start getting employees, you start making more money, you do other things, then you wanna start maybe looking at filing as an escort.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Wayne Marshall: Sole proprietorship. Then there's also partnerships you can look at and we'll talk a little bit about, but what you can start doing here, especially if you think your earnings are gonna be over 60,000. In the course of a year, you have that ability, which I was talking about earlier. If you can take so much as income and then take another portion of it as a distribution or an earning or a dividend, yeah.
Wayne Marshall: People will talk about, that's going to put you in some of your best spots,
Jimmy Lea: right.
Wayne Marshall: To maximize. What you get in income and put cash in pocket compared to how much you're gonna end up paying in taxes and that will reduce your self-employment tax. Again, there are some things you gotta do, obviously to set up payroll, which I've mentioned here.
Wayne Marshall: You're gonna have to for file in form 25 53 with the IRS 'cause you got employees. There's gonna be other things that gotta be done around that. But again, it's about keeping your tax bill low, keeping the money in your pocket so you can reinvest. Everybody's got a unique situation, so I know I say it multiple times.
Wayne Marshall: Talk to your tax preparer, talk to your professional accountant. Ask these questions. Yeah, ask what's best for me. I'm, I think this year, take 2025. I'm having a really good year. Yeah, I think I might make $120,000. They're gonna say, that's great to know because here's what we're gonna do. I'm gonna do this, we're gonna do this. Take this much in distribution, pay this much in your quarterlies off that distribution, what have you, and it'll put you at the right spot at the end of the year, minimizing that exposure.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Now speaking of talking to your tax professionals the question came up, what is an ebitda?
Wayne Marshall: Oh, EBITDA is earnings before interest taxes and amortization.
Jimmy Lea: Right. So what does that mean?
Wayne Marshall: So you got your earnings?
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: We all know which comes to your bottom line.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Wayne Marshall: And then before interest, if you got interest loans that you're paying, which is a deductible, and then you got taxes you gotta pay. And then if you take that depreciable asset, amortization of it as it's going down, because all of those are different things that write off that change what the net is.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. That add to it. So is the ebitda. And these are questions coming in. Is EBITDA the same as net profit?
Wayne Marshall: It depends on how your books are set. But yes, they can be.
Jimmy Lea: Pretty dang close.
Wayne Marshall: Pretty dang close.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: But usually when you get into your ebitda, you're taking your, so people are using QuickBooks.
Wayne Marshall: And you get your QuickBooks set up and you can run all the different categories and you got all your different things you're set up, you got income, you got expenses, then you got some, all those miscellaneous things. And then you got earnings. This money's left over. Some of the things, unless you accountant is going into QuickBooks and set up your depreciation schedule, you're not gonna get to the EBITDA at your net.
Wayne Marshall: So it will change some. If you've got, so if you had a property LLC, you're gonna have big amortization of your building because you're paying a lot in interest. And you got a lot of that's flowing through. So it can change the bottom a lot, but usually most small business people, what they've got, maybe they've got a vehicle.
Wayne Marshall: Which isn't overly, I mean, they're expensive, but they're not over the top like a building. It might be a lift or like for us, a lift and alignment rack, some of those things,
Jimmy Lea: right.
Wayne Marshall: You're gonna put it into a depreciation scales or you're gonna amortize it out
Jimmy Lea: right
Wayne Marshall: over time, depending in, but there are some things, which many people are familiar with, you can do accelerated depreciation.
Wayne Marshall: There's other things you can do, right? Again, a good preparer can tell you when you should take it. Right. And when you shouldn't.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: And when we wanna schedule it out, or we wanna just go ahead and take it all in the first year and just be done.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Beautiful.
Wayne Marshall: Just depends on how much money you're making.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. Okay, so one more question here about the LLCs. You talked about a manager to run your business.
Wayne Marshall: Manager managed LC they,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. You said as an LSE, you could have a manager run your business. Could you review again, what are the tax. Overall benefits of doing it that way of having a manager run your LLC?
Wayne Marshall: There's not, so there's not really anything on a text, right? 'cause it's still gonna float through. Correct. Just because I started the LLC and maybe I'm saying, you know what, I'm gonna still work, but I'm tired. I'm gonna have Jimmy. Okay. As my manager managed LLC, I can put 'em on the legal papers, he can get all the legal docs, do all the things that need to be done.
Wayne Marshall: IRS and so on and so forth. And he's got that power and authority that you're gonna have in your operating agreement. But I still have to take care of all the taxes and the things that are being done. Now if I'm an LLC, and one of the things we talked about was flexibility of how we can pay. I can pay Jimmy however I wanna pay him and not worry about certain things.
Wayne Marshall: Where if I was a very structured like a C Corp. You got shareholders. It's very structured and everybody's paid whatever. So as an example, if we were in a C corp Yes. And we owned it 50 50, we'd have to split the earnings in half.
Jimmy Lea: Oh wow. Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: But if he's here, let's just say you're still 50 50. I'm doing not doing squat.
Wayne Marshall: I could pay Jimmy 90% of the earnings. I can do anything I want to do under the LLC. You can't do that in a C court. It's very rigid based on the shares and the percentage and so
Jimmy Lea: on and so forth.
Jimmy Lea: So I think a lot of the members here for Nasiff are mom and pop shop shops, mom and pop structures, mom and pop business you know, pop is out as the technician.
Jimmy Lea: He's either working on cars, popping locks, working on vehicles. He's in the shop. Mom's up at the front. She's doing the books. She's doing the counters, right? So in those situations. What is a good LLC for a mom and pop structure business?
Wayne Marshall: Well, this gets into some other things that could come into obviously trust and wills and
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: Other things that could be considered with obviously transferring of Yes. Now most people. I'm not trying to take a deep dive into the legal language of, but most people, when you sit there and you'll hear about setting up a corporation, you've got articles of incorporation or you're gonna have an operating agreement.
Wayne Marshall: They're very similar. It's not. Just how people define them. Yes, it's really not a big difference. But part of all those agreements, we'll also have in there certain things under buy, sell, things that, how you would transfer what happens up on death of a partner or an owner in, if you have a husband, wife, I can give you a strong argument because you've created the right firewall to put both on.
Wayne Marshall: If you want to do some things that put you in favor with female owned or whatever, maybe make the Y 51, 49.
Jimmy Lea: Yes
Wayne Marshall: to keep that as you wanna do. But in that we'll also have some of the structure about the passing of others, which you can then say, how does that affect the outstanding stock, which can easily then if you create the right trust, that everything can move into the trust.
Wayne Marshall: And again, a good legal professional can help do. But, 'cause the one thing is one of my businesses, I had four partners, great guys, but I told all, every one of 'em. I says, I don't want to be a partner with your wife.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Wayne Marshall: So if something happens to you, we're gonna write in there that upon your passing your shares, go into a holding state.
Wayne Marshall: You have no voting right. You don't have anything 'cause, but we're gonna take care of your wife correctly. We're gonna do the valuations and we're gonna buy her out and give her the money that she should have. Nice. As an example. Yeah. But I don't want any of your wifes jumping in actively to the business.
Wayne Marshall: Not trying to be a jerk, but
Jimmy Lea: No. And when my dad has his business with his partner, he had a a death benefit, a key employee benefit. So if you got a mom and pop situation. And mom was to pass away or dad was to pass away, right? You can have a life insurance policy on that person. That is correct.
Jimmy Lea: It comes to the the business.
Wayne Marshall: And again, I, you know, which I did that, we did that too, right? So we did the company bought, we did it instead of a keyman policy with obviously death benefit. We did it in a combo with an annuity. So it was a way to, and again, talk to a professional on, but there's a way to structure this.
Wayne Marshall: That we were buying The death benefit. Yeah. If something happened, right? That's right. We were the beneficiaries. We got the money and then gave the money to the spouse 'cause that bought the shares. So they still benefit.
Jimmy Lea: That's perfect.
Wayne Marshall: But the other thing we did, what have you doesn't die. So what we did is we started putting the money into an annuity with the death benefit, which the policies are there.
Wayne Marshall: We're paying more. And we're getting a return if, which happened. None of us did die, fortunately, never had to deal with, but the beauty of it was when we sold the company, every one of those annuities came back to us and it became deferred income.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's beautiful.
Wayne Marshall: And it was a way, and again, you've gotta talk to a person to get it set up right?
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. That you can do it to keep the tax ramifications out.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: But it ended up being that we were putting not a ton of money, but we were putting about $10,000 in each. So pretty soon we got up there and before we know it, it's worth a hundred thousand dollars. That's, it's multiplying in value
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: And growing off the annuity that's given a return.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's beautiful.
Wayne Marshall: Instead of money just going away. Yeah. I needed a death benefit, but we also made it to where it had value that each of us got to benefit with a, basically a deferred payment.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Of income. Nice, excellent.
Wayne Marshall: Small little thing to get.
Jimmy Lea: So one more last question on the S corp before we go past this one questions coming in that says, under the S corp, is there a benefit of establishing a home office? And this person you may need to type in a little bit more to expand on this idea. I does this mean you have brick and mortar and you're establishing also a home office, or you're working solely from your home office and want an S corp, which I have that.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. So you can do, it's again, it's like anything in life. There was 20, 30 years ago, people were abusing this privilege with the IRS code and there was a lot of audits happening from people I know. 'cause they all of a sudden they were putting their dog on as part of their expense. 'cause it was a watch dog.
Jimmy Lea: Oh gosh.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, no. People do crazy things and then they wonder why they get audited.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And so the things I would say, 'cause look, I do it. I got a home office, right? You've seen, you know where my home offices and so yeah, I take a percentage of, and I can take a percentage of electricity, water, internet, all the things that I need to run my office.
Wayne Marshall: It's part of my tax.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: You know, deduction and write off that I'm doing. You just gotta be careful. Don't take advantage of the code. But yeah, you can do it again, your tax preparer, if you tell 'em how many square feet based on all these things, they can add it up. There's a, they've got the formulas .
Jimmy Lea: There's a formula that they use.
Wayne Marshall: They've got the formulas that they can use to help you get and stay clean with the IRS.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful.
Wayne Marshall: But yeah, do it. Might not be a lot, but hey, four or 500 bucks is four or $500.
Jimmy Lea: It all adds up.
Wayne Marshall: Amen.
Jimmy Lea: All right, well good. So are we going on to three?
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, let's go on to the next. So I mean, the last other one that we've got is obviously C Corp.
Wayne Marshall: No one's gonna do it. I just threw it up here just so you can kind of see.
Jimmy Lea: So everybody knows it's still bad.
Wayne Marshall: Why C- Corps really suck unless you're big. Because you can see it has a flat corporate tax rate at 21%, and then if you get a dividend, you got again. You gotta pay tax on it over again. So the company's paying tax, you then get a dividend of what's left and you gotta pay in, you know, a personal tax on it again, along with the tax that was coming outta your paycheck on a W2.
Wayne Marshall: And it's a very complex and there's a lot of formula formalities and garbage had nobody wants to do. The only reason that people choose this is if they're starting to really grow and you want to attract investors, you want to have obviously scale. And there are companies I know I. A few years ago I consulted with a company over in Illinois.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. They did convert, but they were 55 million privately held. They were growing and they were wanting to get to a hundred million. When you got to a hundred million, they were gonna go to a public offer in a small one.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Wayne Marshall: And that's the reason you do that stuff? 'cause it gives you structure and governance
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: That allows you to do, but.
Jimmy Lea: It's there. It's available. Yeah. It probably past what we're doing.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: All right.
Wayne Marshall: Obviously the best things that we get into when you get all done, when you look at corporations is obviously you can deduct everything, take advantage of retirement plans, other things that could come out of you can use different tax credits and things for the hiring end of people.
Wayne Marshall: You know, you gotta look at what state you're in. There's things around some states have no income tax. You know, you look at Nevada, where you live.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Florida doesn't, there's other things that you,
Jimmy Lea: Wyoming,
Wayne Marshall: consider, yep. Other things that you wanna look at in there. At the end of the day, it's like we talked, it really comes back to looking at your own personal situation, the size, how much money you gonna make, how big do you want to get?
Wayne Marshall: Talk to your professionals. Most everybody's doing that and they're putting together the different things with their tax preparers to help them ask those questions. Say, I'm gonna have one heck of a year. What should I do? How should I prepare? And try to have those conversations early in the year.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: If you get to the beginning of July or the, you get to that third quarter if you've paid your. Obviously you paid your quarter quarterly estimates based on what your income's going to be at that point. If it looks like it's going bigger and stronger and your tax repairs already giving you your coupons
Wayne Marshall: Go back to 'em and say, look, I'm having one heck of a year. How can I manage this to minimize my tax exposure? Should I change what my income is on my. Income or payroll? W2.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: Should I change dividends?
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Wayne Marshall: Should I leave the money in?
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: How does that, because again, it's gonna pass through and we talked about the 15% tax rate for businesses that's, you know, up on the LLC at the top. At the beginning of all this. So Yeah. You know, just have those conversations and the goal here today. More than anything was just to have these conversations that, that you ask good questions when you sit down and that you start talking about, here's what I got going on, here's what I'm doing, here's what I wanna do, here's how I wanna set it up.
Wayne Marshall: They'll help you. It's just asking those questions.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And that, I think that's what we're really empowering everybody here with is the knowledge, the information to be able to ask those right questions. Yeah. Knowledge is power, but knowledge is also dangerous. Yeah. Especially if you think you know the right way to do it and then you discover, oh, holy crap, I did it totally wrong.
Wayne Marshall: Nobody wants those oh crap moments at the end of the year.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Or. It's happened to me because I didn't do a few years back. Yeah. You're sitting there and all of a sudden your tax repairs going yeah. We kind of missed the mark and you're gonna have to write a check for $20,000.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, thanks.
Wayne Marshall: Or I've had the other side a few years back, I'm sitting down and I didn't do a good job. And he goes, you overpaid and you're gonna get a refund for $40,000.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow.
Wayne Marshall: And I'm going, you know what I could have done with that money if I had it every month and invested it or did other things.
Wayne Marshall: Oh, yeah. But I let the government hold on to my 40 some thousand dollars one year.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And did you get any interest on that 40,000?
Wayne Marshall: I got Zip zip.
Jimmy Lea: Ouch. All right.
Wayne Marshall: So I, I think I have one last slide that just says, Hey, you know, here's some things to consider. Obviously we talked about different states and certain states who have, well, some states have franchise taxes or annual fees.
Wayne Marshall: Don't live in California or New York. I apologize for any of you that are honest, that are in those states, but they're not business friendly. And obviously some states are right, more business friendly, but you know, real easy if you've got a low income business, just stay with your LLC taxation. Do the Schedule C.
Wayne Marshall: It's easy if you're starting to get up to moderate or higher, and that's 60,000 or more. Consider the, you know, the S corp and some of the things because it gives you flexibility of income. Distribution on a quarterly basis. If, hey, and God bless you guys, if someone gets big and they're gonna franchise them.
Jimmy Lea: Hallelujah.
Jimmy Lea: Let's go.
Wayne Marshall: We call a c -corp.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: We call Jimmy and I, we wanna invest.
Jimmy Lea: We wanna make money too. At what point does it make sense to go to a C Corp? Is that based on the number of employees? Is that based on the number of locations? It's all dollars, yeah. Dollars driven. Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: If you get, if you start getting really big and you get multiple shareholders or you wanting to go public
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And do other things.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: I mean there you look at some of the bigger companies today, and if you go back and look at their history, I. They started out like we started out. I mean, you hear the stories of, well, apple and Microsoft start in garages. I now look at 'em today. But there was a point where they said, we're gonna go and we're gonna become a C corp because we're gonna get shareholders.
Wayne Marshall: We're gonna do this, we're gonna have shareholder meetings, all the other things that come with it.
Wayne Marshall: But we want to be big. And when you get that size, you don't care about 21% of what the corporate tax is. 'cause the revenue's so high. It's so big.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh that's phenomenal. So knowledge and information.
Jimmy Lea: So powerful questions, comments, concerns. Would love to address any of those other additional questions that you might have. Maybe there's something that's sticking out in your mind that, Hey, you know what about this situation? What about my situation? I'm a small mobile tech. I'm doing 6,000 a month.
Jimmy Lea: What kind of a LLC should I have? There's a question for you. How about that?
Wayne Marshall: I would just, I'd keep it simple.
Jimmy Lea: Just the simple LLC.
Wayne Marshall: I would do, I would do the simple one if you're wanted, if it's just you and you're self-employed. You're running your business. Well keep it simple like that. If you're having a really big year, 'cause I've known some guys who are running an independent one person business.
Wayne Marshall: They're making six figures plus, then you need to start doing some planning.
Jimmy Lea: So that's when you start looking at the S corp.
Wayne Marshall: Yep. Even if it's multiples because your income's getting so high.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And I. I didn't look it up. I should have real quick, but I know in 2025 it's somewhere around 96 or $98,000 you go to the next tax bracket.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Wayne Marshall: So you know, this is again, where a good tax preparer is gonna tell you, look, we wanna look at this, pull this. And like I most, our coaching clients, oh my our coaching clients, as we talk, I tell 'em, if you wanna pay yourself, 'cause you know, and then see how your dividends are going. Your earnings are going start at about 90.
Wayne Marshall: If you want to go higher, that's fine, but again, talks to your preparer. Yeah. Start at 90, take those paychecks out and then look at what you're gonna do with dividends or earnings on a quarterly basis.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. We do know a couple of shops that are a single employee. The owner. And the owner is the phone, the computer, the wrench.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. And they're doing in the $400,000 a year range.
Wayne Marshall: I coaching with one.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: He's trying to get his company in a position to sell.
Jimmy Lea: So he, is he currently as an LLC looking to go to S Corp or does he just because he's looking to sell? He's probably...
Wayne Marshall: so he was doing exactly what we talked about. Yeah. When I started the whole conversation.
Wayne Marshall: He was an LLC for his business. He owns the building personally, and I'm like. Dude, you've gotta get an LLC for your business or the building, the property. And then you need to pay yourself rent. And then pay yourself a little extra rent because that generates a little extra income. We talked all this through, so he got it done at the end of the year.
Wayne Marshall: So he started this year, 2025, a clean tax year. So he now has a property LLC. So if he sells his business, he can now create income off renting his bus, his building back out. So that can be ongoing retirement income for him and his family as he wants to go. As an example, he could also turn around, sell the business.
Wayne Marshall: Put that on a five year balloon, sell the building separate of and create a different income stream. Love it. And it changes some of those tax ramifications because the other thing you gotta start looking at and then plan for, even on a business, if the valuation goes up, there's still capital gains.
Wayne Marshall: And you also have capital gains as we're all familiar with on property. Yeah. Again, and it's same as he's done and I keep saying, but he talked to his local preparer and I said, here's the things you wanna ask. Here's some of the questions we wanna address that get you set right for your personal situation.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Excuse me. No, some questions coming in from Jeff and Jeff, thank you. This is a really good question. The S corp breaks at $60,000. Is that $60,000 of profit or is that $60,000 of business? Revenue. After the owner gets paid, what? What is that? $60,000.
Wayne Marshall: So if you're gonna make 60,000 in profit or net. So let's just say for sake of argument, you did 400,000 in revenue. Yep. You paid yourself. 80,000.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Wayne Marshall: And the company still made over 60,000? That's where that would kick in.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I see.
Wayne Marshall: So even if you wanna look at it, 'cause it's gonna flow to you on a sole proprietorship in that pass through, it's gonna show that you really made 140 or more thousand, maybe 150,000.
Wayne Marshall: But that's when you wanna stop and say, okay. If I pay this and I'm at this tax level, I don't want to get to some of the next tier. That starts to happen when you get over the 96, 98, you get to a hundred, I can't remember where the next one is off the top of my head. But it's like 120, something, and then it just continues and you're just gonna pay more. So this is again, where you wanna stop and go, okay, I want to have my taxable income here during the year so I don't pay overpay, and then take dividends and other earnings. You can, or you can leave it in and then talk about how you can reinvest and other things you can do with it.
Wayne Marshall: But that's where, that's how that all adds up.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Wayne Marshall: So it's not your income's separate of the 60.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful, beautiful. Jeff, I hope that helps you out, brother. Cool. Good. Well, we're asking for final questions, comments, concerns.
Wayne Marshall: It went by fast.
Jimmy Lea: That I, it is like a flash man. And you know, I'm thinking of a client that we have in Texas.
Jimmy Lea: This is a shop that was struck by lightning flooded. Caught on fire. Yeah. Yeah. And and lucky for them that they were covered. They did have the right insurances in place. It's not even something that we're talking about today, but it is important. You do need to evaluate that. And there's been a lot of businesses that when they start, they have two bays.
Jimmy Lea: They have an insurance policy for two bays. Then they grow and they grow. And then there's a problem. And now that insurance policy that they set up originally doesn't cover. Four bays, six bays, eight bays, and then they get into a little bit of trouble. So lucky for this shop in Texas, they had all the right insurances in place that they were covered, right?
Jimmy Lea: And the trifecta within, I think it was within two or three weeks that they got struck by landing, caught on fire and flooded.
Wayne Marshall: Another thing, I didn't really, I should have said this earlier too, but one thing, if you start going down this road. If you don't do one, I do one annually, have done 'em for years.
Wayne Marshall: When I had my businesses, even still to this day, I do 'em do an annual personal financial statement.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Wayne Marshall: That list out all your debts, all your assets, the valuation of your business, everything else that you're sitting there, and you can see what your net worth is and how that net worth is changing year after year to year.
Wayne Marshall: Because it's a great scorecard. To just look at your overall, not only your personal financial health, but to even look at it from a bigger picture of your business and how everything is changing and growing. Because we, any of us as business owners, we work our butts off at times, and you sometimes wonder, am I really gaining, am I getting what I should get?
Wayne Marshall: It was always a nice thing to look at, and I'd try to sit down and then my wife and I would talk about it and I'd say, you know what? This is paying off. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it because you're just like, you're in the grind. You're in the grind. You're grinding it out. But when we would take the time and look and see that, but wait a minute, I did add this much to my 401k or my IRA or something.
Wayne Marshall: I did do this. We do pay down the building more that we were owning. We did this things and next thing you know, you just start seeing that growth and you're seeing that change and then you look at five years ago to there and you're going, oh my goodness. We are doing it well and we are making a difference in what we're trying to do today.
Wayne Marshall: So it's just a good exercise. I know we've, I've shared some things with the form I've used, I've sent out to others that I've coached with, and I say it is just one of those things to just, it's a good way to see am I going up or down? Am I winning, losing, and how it's, what's my overall health. That's what you're really trying to do.
Wayne Marshall: That's why we do what we do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And try to, that's why we got into business for ourselves.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, so true. So true. So question from Jeremy. He's asking when you pay yourself, do you deduct taxes? I. I think there's two answers to this question, correct? Yeah, go ahead.
Wayne Marshall: So if it's W2, so it's an actual payroll.
Jimmy Lea: Payroll, yep.
Wayne Marshall: So when you think about all the normal employee deductions that you would have, social security, what have you. Yes. I would run that, and I'd run it actually through with, you know, you. QuickBooks can do it. If you're just a single person and you're using QuickBooks, it can help you get and deduct the right things and make all the right payments that you need to pay.
Wayne Marshall: And then the second is if you pull it out as earnings. Yes, that's where your tax preparer. If you guys kind of remember, you're gonna get a coupon. It'll be for the four quarters of you need to write a check to cover your dividend tax or what you're gonna take on earnings or what the earnings of the company might be, even if you don't take 'em out so you don't end up with a tax surprise at the end of the year.
Wayne Marshall: Hence, I had to pay 20 grand 'cause I didn't pay enough. Ouch. Quarterly's going through and then you gotta pay it at the end of the year. So yes, I, my normal W2, yeah, normal taxes, everything. You run it as you normally would. The others are done quarterly on a coupon.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. So big compliment to you from Jason.
Jimmy Lea: Jason says, right. Well, what did we do this time? Jason says, thank you so much. I now understand it's so much better than when my accountant tried to explain it. Wow. LLCs, SCORP, C Corp. Thanks. Yeah. Good job brother. Appreciate that. Thank you Jason. Yeah. Alright one more thing. And this goes from. First is from Jeff.
Jimmy Lea: Jeff is saying, does Wayne offer coaching services?
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: As a matter of fact, we do. There it is. Matter of fact, we do. If you find this information interesting and inviting and educational, and that's really what we're here to try and provide for you is an education information knowledge. If you find it interesting, let's have a meeting.
Jimmy Lea: Let's see. If reach coaching would be something of value to your business, are you at a position that you're ready to do it? I knew of a mobile shop in Virginia that wanted to come on with the institute and he just wasn't ready. Just wasn't ready. It took him about a year and after a year, so I'm again at a show and he's like, yep, I'm ready.
Jimmy Lea: Let's go. Went from doing 6,000 a month as a mobile tech. To his first month, brick and mortar, $24,000 that month and started day one with coaching and training to make sure that he was doing it right. So big shout out to our friends there in Virginia.
Wayne Marshall: Well, that's noted. Everything. A guy, you met him, you know our guy from Canada, he started out with a mobile truck.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Truck mechanic.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And today he's got three mobile trucks and a 22 bay. He's gotten huge. That is huge. 22 bays each mobile and we've talked about it and we're working with him today and working on some things. But yeah, he talks about starting on that mobile truck to the point today, each mobile truck for him.
Wayne Marshall: 'cause he also does heavy earth moving equipment and construction equipment and service along with over the road diesel trucks. Each mobile truck's running about 400,000 in revenue.
Jimmy Lea: Wow.
Wayne Marshall: So he's getting 1,000,000 or 2 between his three mobile trucks. That's not counting all the stuff comes to the shop on 22 bays.
Jimmy Lea: Gotta love that. Gotta love that.
Wayne Marshall: Start with one mobile truck.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: And there he is today.
Jimmy Lea: There he is.
Wayne Marshall: Great story.
Jimmy Lea: So those of you who are interested, scan that QR code first name, last name, email address. Let's set up an appointment. We can sit down and review your business.
Jimmy Lea: Review where you are. There's no obligation, there's no financial cost to it. So that's a free resource for you as well. Check out our website. We are the institute.com. We are the institute.com. A lot of valuable information on the website as well, our YouTube channel. There's o easily over 160 hours worth of knowledge and information that you could gain a master's degree in running your shop, your business, your mobile business that, that's gonna help you as a business owner.
Jimmy Lea: I. Available on YouTube. And that's a free resource as well. Any things that you would want to include in an offer that we can send to our listeners that are on this webinar today? Maybe the the five steps to a 20% net profit? Maybe a couple links to some videos that we've.
Wayne Marshall: There you go. Sure.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Wayne Marshall: Let's make it happen, captain.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Well scan the QR code. Make sure you, as you talk to our representatives, you say, Jimmy told me that you were gonna send me the workbook, 5% net, five steps to a 20% net profit, five steps to a 20% net profit. And there's a webinar that goes right along with that, where Cecil breaks down those steps and exactly what you need to do every step along the way.
Jimmy Lea: So with that, thank you very much. Appreciate the time, Wayne. Thank you to you, brother. Appreciate it. Great knowledge, information you got another shout out here. It went away. Lemme get to it real quickly because Jeremy says Thank you guys. This has been a real eye-opening experience. I awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Lots of great information. Definitely gonna make some changes. Jeremy to you. Thank you very much, brother.
Wayne Marshall: Glad to help. Love paying it forward.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. That's what we do.
Wayne Marshall: All right.
Jimmy Lea: And with that, we'll see you again soon. Thank you.
![114 - Grow Faster, Go Further – The Peer Group Advantage [THA 423]](https://pbcdn1.podbean.com/imglogo/ep-logo/pbblog2982136/114_Thumbnailat9ti_300x300.png)
Friday Mar 28, 2025
114 - Grow Faster, Go Further – The Peer Group Advantage [THA 423]
Friday Mar 28, 2025
Friday Mar 28, 2025
114 - Grow Faster, Go Further – The Peer Group Advantage [THA 423]
February 7th, 2025 - 00:43:03
Show Summary:
In this heartfelt episode recorded live at The Institute Summit 2025, Carm Capriotto sits down with facilitators Aaron Woods and Jennifer Hulbert to explore the transformative power of coaching groups for auto repair shop owners. Aaron and Jennifer, both shop owners and coaches, share their journeys from struggling operators to impactful leaders, guiding others through growth and accountability. They dive into the importance of peer groups, the value of mirror people, and why coaching is about more than just fixing a business… it’s about changing lives. Their candid stories offer inspiration for those ready to level up their business and personal growth through community, vulnerability, and intentional action.
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
Guest(s):
Jennifer Hulbert, Head Facilitator/Coach
Aaron Woods, Head Facilitator/Coach
Episode Highlights:
[00:03:00] - Aaron and Jennifer reflect on the rewarding challenge of running a shop while coaching others through peer groups.
[00:04:13] - Jennifer shares a powerful story of shop owners rallying together to keep a fellow member’s business afloat.
[00:05:49] - Aaron explains how peer groups, not just coaches, drive meaningful transformation through shared experience.
[00:06:43] - They discuss how real business growth starts with personal transformation and leadership development.
[00:08:54] - Aaron unpacks the “law of the lid” and the importance of removing limiting beliefs to unlock team potential.
[00:11:20] - Accountability thrives when group members hold each other responsible for progress and action.
[00:15:01] - Jennifer and Aaron share the idea of “mirror people”—those who reflect and shape your growth.
[00:23:42] - Aaron tells his emotional story of public vulnerability at a conference that changed his life and business.
[00:33:59] - They emphasize that even as facilitators, they’re still shop owners learning from their own groups.
[00:39:18] - Jennifer and Aaron discuss the massive impact of helping 72 shops grow their profitability and lives.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfB6qhU79kc
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
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Want access to our online classes? Click Here
________________________________________
Carm Capriotto: Hey everybody, welcome back. Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio here at the annual. Nice. I think it's every couple of years, the Institute Summit 2025. Thank you so much to Cecil and Kent Bullard and the entire team from the Institute. We are the institute.com. Honored to be here. We were at the last one. Had a blast. We're having so much fun here.
Carm Capriotto: Hey, welcome back. Okay. Sometimes there's some behind the scenes stories that you have to tell and Carm, why are you sitting so close to Aaron Woods? One of our cameras kind of decided to die, so I asked Aaron if he could just chum up a little bit and he said yes.
Carm Capriotto: So this is one of the most uncomfortable places or positions I've been in my entire podcasting for a year.
Aaron Woods: For you, for you. It's very comfortable for me.
Carm Capriotto: Oh, well, I'm gonna have to talk to Morgan about that.
Carm Capriotto: Oh my. We're already starting to have fun, and this episode is gonna be about fun. Also, Jennifer Hulbert is here from. Service plus automotive in calcium New York, not far from Buffalo. Maybe about what, four hours?
Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah. Other side of the lake.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. At the end of Lake Ontario, we're on the edge of Erie, but on the show three times with us, Aaron, eight extra mile Autocare Stillwater, Oklahoma.
Carm Capriotto: Now, why both of you are here is you guys are leading the gear performance groups here at the Institute.
Jennifer Hulbert: We are.
Carm Capriotto: How do you run a shop? And coach and facilitate. I find it fascinating how many shop owners are getting involved. I mean, I talked to Parker this morning. He's got like eight clients. I love it.
Carm Capriotto: There's nothing like an individual who's been there and done that to help guide people down this pathway in life of improvement and coaching and leadership and all that stuff. And just to set the record clear, and I think we've done a podcast on this before. I was so honored, Tracy and I, to be invited to one of your peer reviews in Buffalo and you had your whole team there and we watched you facilitate.
Carm Capriotto: We saw a different side of Aaron Woods than we ever knew before, and it was positive those shop owners rallied around you. And of course you went and scoured my friend Tom Cino shop, and he worked almost like a year to get it ready. Nothing like pressure, right? He did a great job. Yeah, he did a great job and he learned a lot and he's improved his business in so many ways.
Carm Capriotto: So how do you get in front of these groups and facilitate them and have a little Jen or Aaron push? How do you do that? Is it your personalities to do this?
Jennifer Hulbert: Absolutely.
Carm Capriotto: Okay.
Jennifer Hulbert: So I was part of an actual group for 18 years, and my facilitator always joked that I was trying to take his job. Ah. So this has been an inherent part of my personality from probably the day that I was born.
Jennifer Hulbert: And
Carm Capriotto: I couldn't tell that about you.
Jennifer Hulbert: No. No.
Carm Capriotto: Could you?
Aaron Woods: Oh yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Oh he knows a different side of her.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well and these members are there looking for assistance, and that is our job. And if we're not going to push them, then they're not going to improve, and that's what they're, we're there to do. That's what the group is there to do.
Jennifer Hulbert: At the beginning of the GPG Day kickoff, I talked about the entire group process, just wrapping their arms around members, and we've had members. From, I've lost all of my employees and it was the owner and a wife, and we had two additional shops who drove to their location. Put on their technician hat and got work produced for that individual shop just so they could stay in business until they were able to hire technicians.
Carm Capriotto: There's all kinds of stories about that out there.
Aaron Woods: Oh, it's remarkable, really what the group process is. And we were just having this conversation with a shop owner at lunch today and they said, well, I really like working. And they were talking about, they were working with Cecil as like a one-on-one coach and they said, well.
Aaron Woods: You know, I have this fear about coming into the group because I really like working with Cecil and I said, well, with all due respect to Cecil and everything that he brings to the table, we all know that. But really, if the group process is doing what the group process does, the coach isn't, not that I'm trying to take away from what Jennifer and I do bring to the table, but what I'm here to say is that.
Aaron Woods: The coach is not the focal point of the process. The process works and changes lives because of the group members that are sitting there in that room. It's about them, not about you. It's about them. And so that's the power of what comes out of that room. Going back to what Jennifer spoke about in the beginning of the GPG Day when we both got up and addressed the group and Jennifer had, you know, talked about that.
Aaron Woods: And I stood up and I said, immediately, right outta the gate, I said, there's two types of people in this world. There's the people that learn from others, and then there's the people that touch the stove because they had to find out for themselves. Unfortunately, those type of people where I have a burnt hands.
Aaron Woods: But back to what I'm saying here is you have a room full of people that have been through those experiences, have lived those, you know, the ups and the downs and the rollercoasters, and are able to help each other and guide each other through those experiences, and that's been really powerful to see.
Carm Capriotto: Thank you for that. This is a pretty heavy question when you see a transformation in the business. What do you see in the person who helps make that happen? The shop owner.
Jennifer Hulbert: The shop owner. That makes the transformation in their own business?
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. What do you, what do you, yeah, the business is moving and there's a lot going on, but what do you see in the person, do you see a transformation in them? Do you see a new and better, stronger leader? Do you see attraction? There's gotta be, it starts with the person, the man in the mirror, you know, the ego, all that stuff. And I think it's important to know when people are considering coaching or grouping or networking, that you're gonna change as a person.
Jennifer Hulbert: Oh, absolutely, and that's what we're here to do. If you're not growing in your business is retracting and shrinking. So how can the managers or the owners make those improvements and then they have a different role in their business. I. All of us, most of us started in an actual day-to-day role.
Jennifer Hulbert: I was a service advisor. Aaron was a technician. Most of the shop owners are in one of those day-to-day roles, and as they take that step out, they can see the growth potential. I. Because there may not be holding back their business. And I said this, I think on my first podcast with you, is I was holding my business back.
Jennifer Hulbert: And until I took that transformation and had that epiphany of there are people who can do these individual roles better than I can, and putting those people in those seats allows the business to grow. And that was something that Dr. Jessica Kriegel talked about today. That kind of goes back to culture.
Jennifer Hulbert: If you have the people who are working in the same direction, your profitability is going to be extremely higher than just some growth because of a labor rate increase in Absolutely, you know, a parts margin change.
Aaron Woods: Oh, I agree. And to add to that point, yesterday, during, or not yesterday, Wednesday on, when we did our breakout, you know, GPG training, one of the things I talked about was just that, I mean, there's intentional growth and there's organic growth.
Aaron Woods: Organic growth is, yeah, we're gonna increase our labor rate. You know, parts prices aren't getting any cheaper, and so. You know, a 5%, 10% growth, to me is not really doing anything different rather than just natural environmental factors. But to add to what Jennifer is saying, it's the lid. It's the story of the fleas in the pickle jar that, you know, jump up and hit the bottom of the lid and eventually they quit jumping.
Aaron Woods: And then you take the lid off. And it's like, we as shop owners, and I say we, myself, Jennifer, all of us included, it's. We tend to put that lid on it, on our beliefs. Going back to, you know, Jennifer or Dr. Jessica Craigle and her talking about the belief system, where we believe in our business should be is where we put the lid and it's like we have to remove that lid and let our people.
Aaron Woods: Run with it. We have to train them. Well, we have to build the systems around them, but then it's amazing to see what they can do when we get out of the way.
Jennifer Hulbert: And we're building leaders then, and not managers or employees,
Carm Capriotto: followers.
Aaron Woods: Yeah. Correct. That was one thing actually that stuck out to me. I think, was it Dan Clark that said that?
Aaron Woods: He said a leader's job is to build other leaders. You know, and I thought that was a great point, right?
Carm Capriotto: There's an awful lot about micromanaging in the last couple of days, discussions with people, and I think we micromanage because we don't know what else to do. I think we love to turn a wrench, sweep a floor.
Carm Capriotto: I. And all the thousands of other things that we like to do and not lead. I mean, listen, for 10 years we've been doing this. This is not a redundant episode, but it's an episode that kind of shares the same themes or storylines that we've been talking about for years, and so why would I want all of this repeatable life's lessons to happen again?
Carm Capriotto: Because I believe I haven't gotten to everybody who needs to hear this. Okay? And if you're a top 20 producer, listen to this. Continue to affirm and confirm that you're doing the right thing. And if you are not and you want to get there, then listen to this. Write some stuff down. Listen to it three or four times.
Carm Capriotto: Listen to the wisdom that's coming from the real life's experiences out here. And that's kind of what I want to know. There's a level of accountability. Here's the law of the lid. I love the law of the lid. You did finish the story. The fleas, you take the lid off, the fleas not gonna come out because we've taught them.
Carm Capriotto: This is only as high as you can jump. But what I wanna know is with these groups, how does accountability. Happen. And what I mean by that is what I was so impressed by to be in your group was they seem to hold each other accountable. And you talk about the height of networking and the height of, I don't know this guy, but I've just been assigned to be his partner.
Carm Capriotto: I guess my job is to hold him accountable because he's gonna hold me. Wow. What a cool way. It's a tug of war baby, but the positivity's in the middle.
Aaron Woods: Well, I think Jimmy said this perfectly. I think it came from Jimmy or Jimmy during the summit was, you know, we're all in the same storm. We may not be on the same ship.
Aaron Woods: And our ships may not be the same size, but we're all in the same storm. And I think the power of the accountability factor that you speak to is the age old saying, right, a rising tide lifts all ships and maybe the ships aren't the same size, but we're all in this together. We're all here. In the same industry, and we're all battling a lot of the same, you know, day-to-day issues, whether it be technology, staffing and these things.
Aaron Woods: And so as that room grows and as the discussions happen, it's, I know that if I help Jennifer raise her tide, that in turn comes back to help me. Because it lifts the group up. Right. And you see that Jennifer like, absolutely. I'd love for you to get your input as well. Like, you know, you facilitate a several of the groups so well, you see that as well.
Jennifer Hulbert: We have these like-minded people in the same room. And Michael Smith uses the word or the phrase all the time that we're not gonna do business with jerks. So we're not gonna have someone who is gonna self-sabotage themselves in the group, that they're not gonna last because the other members are going to say, we are here to improve.
Jennifer Hulbert: All of us and we're all gonna rise together.
Carm Capriotto: That's right.
Jennifer Hulbert: So we're in the 1% the people in our groups are in the 1% of the business. That's been one of the trademarks of the institute for a very long time. So we're like-minded people and we want to improve everyone's business and everyone's lives.
Jennifer Hulbert: Again, going back to the theme and of the institute, better life, better business, better industry. So if you are not going to push your members and hold them accountable. We're not going to rise together.
Carm Capriotto: That's right.
Jennifer Hulbert: And sometimes in the beginning that accountability is forced. We've had difficult conversations with our group members and they see the potential.
Jennifer Hulbert: They see others making the improvements in their business and how they've rosen up and say, okay. Finally, I'm gonna commit to this. Yeah. And I'm gonna make the improvements and I'm going to listen to my other group members because I'm getting the same information.
Carm Capriotto: This is a behind the scenes on what grouping networking and coaching is all about.
Aaron Woods: Oh, and it is, and I'll add to this, you know, I think Jennifer and I share a great dynamic in this, in the sense of. Not only are we the ones leading these groups, but we come from the group process. Yes. And not only are Jennifer and I collaborating at this sense now of, you know, co-facilitating this program, but we were composite partners, which is the really accountability partners Oh.
Aaron Woods: And the group process. And so. We came from that. Oh, you know more about her than anybody. I see. I won't go into specifics, but there were several times where her and I would push each other on our meetings in the group process. And you know, we all still to this day, still to this day and. You know, I heard Jennifer mention this the other night, and it's something that her and I have been very vocal about back and forth.
Aaron Woods: It's mirror people. And I think it was something that came out of the first summit. Yes. Kevin Brown, who are your mirror people. You know, the people that when you look at the mirror and you say, this is where I am today because of people that have influenced me throughout my life. You know, who are those people?
Aaron Woods: Jennifer and I have been very vocal about each one of us being one of those people, but to the broader. Point here. 'cause we're talking about the group process, the people in that room that do hold each other accountable and do be there for them in the good times and the bad times of the business. A lot of times it's more than just running a shop.
Aaron Woods: It's those people become the mirror people. Yeah. That's the true bond in that room is you've earned the right. To be able to be that person for that person when they needed you. Yeah. That's powerful.
Carm Capriotto: Kevin Brown, hero effect.
Jennifer Hulbert: The Hero effect.
Carm Capriotto: The Hero Effect. We got the book at the summit. Oh my God.
Carm Capriotto: I think, was it a signed copy?
Aaron Woods: I still talk about that to this day.
Carm Capriotto: Tracy, you read it? I did that, yeah. Tracy read it. And we were moved by it. I believe it's on the books page on our website. Remarkable results biz , it's a must, must read. He's gotta be one of the top.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, oh, I loved it. From the minute he started to talk to the end. You were He had me, he had me. The hero effect, Kevin Brown.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, and to go back, just to expand a little bit on Mirror People, there are group members who become your chosen family. And again, I was in a group for 18 years.
Carm Capriotto: Your chosen family. That is big.
Jennifer Hulbert: I have chosen family members. And we support each other in all aspects of our life. Not just the business side, but the personal side. And I have people that I can make a phone call tomorrow or this minute and say, Hey, I'm really struggling this with whatever it is in my life. And they're gonna be there.
Jennifer Hulbert: We got you. We're gonna be there to support you. And that's really what I want the group process to be, or we want the group process to be. 'cause we do share that same thought is. How can this group become more than just a board of advisors or a board of directors for your business? How can it support your entire life?
Jennifer Hulbert: We have many group members and all across all of our groups, so vacation together. So again, it becomes chosen family, and that to me is the pinnacle or the ultimate part about being part of a group.
Carm Capriotto: That makes so much sense that if you are out there looking for a networking group to become part of, to your point, it's gotta be more than a board of directors.
Carm Capriotto: It ultimately has to be family. But here's my big think. Does everyone make it?
Jennifer Hulbert: No.
Aaron Woods: You know my saying there, Jennifer?
Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah. The easy answer is no.
Carm Capriotto: And what's the hard answer?
Jennifer Hulbert: Aaron saying.
Aaron Woods: The ship wasn't meant to save everybody Carm.
Jennifer Hulbert: No, Noah's Ark wasn't made to save everyone.
Aaron Woods: It's inevitable when you come in and not even just when you come in throughout your tenure of the process.
Aaron Woods: It's not always easy. I. It's not always going to be easy. We're not always going to hear from other people the things that we want to hear, and I think that ultimately that catalyst has to be there inside of you to want to change. I grew up, you know, in a farmhouse and we had a circle driveway around the house, and I remember.
Aaron Woods: I'll never forget this. I was young and my dad bought A Burrow, which is a cross between a donkey and a horse. Yeah. And it was for my little cousins to be able to come over the holidays and ride the Bur ride. Right? Because they didn't wanna ride the horse. We had horses, but they were too big. And so we bought this burrow and I remember watching my dad trying to get this borough to walk with a lead.
Aaron Woods: Right. For two weeks, he's dragging this burrow around the driveway. I mean, the hooves are shoved into the ground. I mean, it was amazing to see. It probably wasn't, but I thought it was funny. Carrots. Yes, that's where I'm going with this. Oh, no kidding. So, so he went inside after about two weeks, and he came outside with a bag of carrots.
Aaron Woods: And so he stood in front of the burrow and he pulled a carrot out and then the borough would walk up and get the carrot. And then he continued to do that. And within a couple of days. The boroughs walking right around the driveway, right. Looking for a carrot. I never knew until like just recently, like how did I learn so much from that moment?
Aaron Woods: It's people will only do what really they want to do. We can't make group members come into this process and want to change, or want to improve or fix this, or we just can't. And I think that's the thing is we sometimes we do get group members that come in and they say. Well, my business is failing. What can you do for me?
Aaron Woods: And that's a, whoops, if somebody says like, I can't do anything for you. Right? Like you have to do those things for yourself. The information, the knowledge, the gathering. The facilitation. We can pour the glass full of Kool-Aid and sit it in front of you, but I can't make you drink.
Jennifer Hulbert: And that for me was probably the biggest challenge of changing from group member to facilitator.
Jennifer Hulbert: I'll never forget, the biggest thing I took outta leadership intensive with Michael Smith is you put your hand up and you start to push. What does the other person do? They push back equally or harder, so how can we turn that push into a carrot and how can we make or help them realize that they have it within themselves to make these improvements themselves.
Aaron Woods: To take that step forward.
Carm Capriotto: So I want to join your group and I say, so what can you do for me? Would the next question say why? Why do you say that?
Aaron Woods: My next question would be is what can you do for yourself? What are you willing to do?
Carm Capriotto: Well, I don't know. You tell me.
Aaron Woods: Because going back to my story with the Burrow, right?
Aaron Woods: It's like, well, my dad got the carrot out, but the burrow still had to take the step to eat it. Yeah. So it's not, if somebody says, well, what can you do for me? It's no. What can you do for yourself?
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. You want direction, you want guidance. If they don't have the motive, obviously there's zero motivation. If they say, what can you do for me?
Jennifer Hulbert: Maybe not zero motivation. Maybe they don't know what they don't know.
Carm Capriotto: Yep.
Jennifer Hulbert: So think of typical shop owners. You're a technician. You're there to solve a problem. You're there to work with your hands. You're there to do step by step, a job to get an outcome. For shop ownership, there are outcomes that you can't control.
Jennifer Hulbert: Customer interactions, you can control them to a point, but there's, it's not like fixing a car. And sometimes that thought process for that member needs to come out, like, I need to look at this differently. I need to grow as a person. I'm no longer a technician, I'm a business owner and I need to look, do, see things differently.
Carm Capriotto: So I want to take the leap and I want to join a coaching group, company group like this, and what characteristics, I get what you're trying to say, that there's nothing you can do for them except maybe do, you know, bring the bag of carrots and let 'em walk to it and ultimately eat. But let's talk to the shop owners right now that are struggling and they need help.
Carm Capriotto: If you want to get into a networking group, coaching thing, what kind of priorities do you need to set for yourself? To make that phone call, to get on that website, to do some discovery of how to get yourself to the next level in your life and in your business.
Jennifer Hulbert: Aaron's story of how he became a group member is the perfect example.
Jennifer Hulbert: So I think your story is one that we should share.
Aaron Woods: You know, I was young in my shop ownership. I started my shop from ground zero. I had nothing, not even really many tools. I remember as I first got started, I didn't know, just like Jennifer said, I don't know what I don't know, and I remember just being extremely defeated when I worked so hard and I mean, seven days a week.
Aaron Woods: 18 hour days, and at the end of the month, I got a negative profit and loss statement from my accountant. And I'm sitting here and I'm trying to look at this negative profit and loss statement, income statement, whatever you want to call it. And I'm looking at all the hours that I just worked and I'm like, how does this make sense?
Aaron Woods: Like, I've always grew up, and I think a lot of us are this way. You grow up and you say, well, if you work hard. You get the things that you need to have, right? Or want to have whatever you describe it. And here I am, seven days a week, 18 hours a day, and at the end of the month, it's like I gave somebody else money, you know?
Aaron Woods: But the problem is that I didn't know why. I'm like, well, I know I can see this bottom number at the bottom of this sheet, but I don't know why. And so my next step was, and I was mad. I was really mad. Actually this was a couple weeks before vision and I remember going to Vision a long time ago when I was a rep for a sales company and I was there as a vendor and I'm like, I think there's this conference that I need to go to.
Aaron Woods: To learn. Right. And it happened to be vision. So I drove up there and I took my manager and with me and or he's now my manager. He wasn't at the time, but I took, you know, somebody that worked with me up there and we attended some classes and I remember on it was on Sunday. I was stewing over this negative p and l the entire time.
Aaron Woods: And that was really what I wanted to learn is like, okay, how do I fix this? Because I don't know what I don't know. And at the end of the conference on Sunday, I'm in this big room, there's a coach in there. I sit at the front of the room and I knew the entire time. I'm like, I am going to touch the stove today.
Aaron Woods: And so I sit at the front of the room and when that coach said, would anybody be willing to volunteer to sit up here on this stage and have us look at your numbers? And I didn't even raise my hand. I just stood up and started walking to the stage. And I'll never forget this, he pulled a chair up and he set it on the stage and he had a projector here, son, sit here.
Aaron Woods: Oh yeah. And I sit there and I pulled up my chop management system and I had it on my phone. And so he was writing these numbers down. He was asking me, and I didn't even know what numbers he was asking me. He's like, oh yeah this. I'm like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm giving him these numbers. I have no idea where he is going with it.
Aaron Woods: And he is writing these things down on this projector screen and it's on this big screen in front of the room, and he's asking me all these numbers and at the end of it, he's like. Group, what do we think? And there's like 500 shop owners in this room, and I'm sitting up on the stage. You were exposed. Oh, I got ran through the grater.
Aaron Woods: Oh, you were but the thing is I knew I was going to, and that's the thing is like I, that was your moment. That was my moment, right? I'm like, yeah, I know that if this burns enough that it's going to ignite me to go back and make the change. And so I did. And it did. I was so mad at myself. I'm a very prideful person, right?
Aaron Woods: And I said, never again will I ever be here. And it was a four and a half hour drive back from Kansas City and Tyler sat in the Passeng. You can ask him himself. Tyler Nichols Extra Mile Auto Care sat right there in the passenger seat of my Honda, and I did not say one word, leaving that conference center all the way back until about 15 miles from Stillwater.
Aaron Woods: And he finally, he looked at me and he goes. What is wrong? And I lost it. Blew up. Not at him, just blew up. And I said, but you've been planning that diatribe for four hours. In your mind.
Aaron Woods: And I said, I have failed you. I have failed this company. And I said, I'm sure there was more choice words there, but at the sense of it is never again will I be here.
Aaron Woods: Never again will I ever be here. I'm not saying that as the rollercoaster of our business, that we don't ever have a bad month, but never will I ever look at that number and not know why.
Carm Capriotto: I wrote down the word exposed. While I'm listening to him. 'cause I always take people's words and I'm saying, how can I really bring this inside of me?
Carm Capriotto: I also think about my listener and I know what you just heard about Aaron in his story, but you cannot be afraid. To do an Aaron story to be exposed, and you were exposed in front of 500 people. You find a coach, you're being exposed to one person who's willing to get on board to help you. And then if you get into a group, maybe it's 20 people, but at the end of the day.
Carm Capriotto: If you are not glowing and growing and doing all this stuff, then you've chosen poorly. They have not given you the right direction, and you need to move on, which is why people sometimes shift around until they find the right love fest, the right family, the right connections. But if you're not willing to expose.
Carm Capriotto: That I don't know what I don't know all the missteps that you've had in your life. If you're not willing to be humble, that's what happened to you, but you didn't think about the beauty of his story is it was an intervention. I bet you if I was in the room, I would've seen a lightning bolt come down, pick you up, and guide you to that stage.
Aaron Woods: You could have probably scrambled an egg on my face.
Jennifer Hulbert: And we have people, maybe not to that extent, but they'll go to a class that NAPA put on in their local BDG. Yeah. Or you know, another class in their market and they hear something and they're like, I have no idea what they're talking about. And then they'll watch one of your podcast and they'll say.
Jennifer Hulbert: You know, I don't know anything about this, but Carm just gave me an idea of where I can find the information and that's usually the first step.
Carm Capriotto: You know, I've been in a room where there's been a coach presenting, you know, over Zoom or a management video came up, and guy who's, does anybody have any questions?
Carm Capriotto: Nobody raises their hands. I look over at Tracy and I do one of these. I want to go to everybody's shoulders and I wanna shake them because their potential, everything's it is like, even though it was a, maybe it was just a mini, you know, performance. KPI, just one subject. No one had any questions.
Carm Capriotto: Everyone in the room's an expert on that topic. The answer is no. But no one wanted to have an Aaron experience.
Aaron Woods: I say that. I mean, I don't recommend that. Well, I do if that's what you need. It was not a fun experience. But at the same time, it's, go back to your original question, Carmen.
Aaron Woods: You said, what do those people need to do? And I think that for me it's kind of like goal setting, right? It's okay, so I have this place that I want to be. But that's not where I am. Right? And maybe I don't know what that place is that I want to be, but I know where I am and it's like, well, if all I ever focus on is that one day I'm gonna have all of these other things, then what we're missing is the path.
Aaron Woods: Right? And it's like, okay, well what can that shop owner that's struggling do today? You can make a phone call, you can reach out, you can do just a small action today. That gets you on a path to then having a different result. I mean, this was 2019 when I went to Vision in Kansas City. Wow. You know, and granted I never would've said, well, you know, in six years from now, Erin, you're gonna be a facilitator.
Aaron Woods: No, I would've known that. Right. But it's like, I didn't just go from vision to facilitating. What did I do? I did one thing. I reached out to. You know, the institute, right. Pulled up a podcast. I, and that's the thing is like, you're so inundated in your business and you're like, well, I can't just do this, you know, 20 group thing. It's like, but you can make a phone call.
Jennifer Hulbert: And don't be intimidated by the process. So we have so many new group members who come in and say, what can I possibly give to this process right now? Yeah. I've not been involved in. There are so many things that I'm not confident about, but yet they contribute to the conversation.
Jennifer Hulbert: They contribute to the meeting overall, they contribute to helping someone in a dinner conversation. So I guess if there's one thing that we could tell your listeners is don't be intimidated by coming and joining a coaching group or a group in general, because you have knowledge, be a sponge, you have experiences.
Carm Capriotto: Be a sponge.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yes.
Aaron Woods: And maybe that is the role. Right. That maybe that's the rule. I agree, Jennifer.
Carm Capriotto: Talk about an accelerated. I am worthless on the bottom of the ocean to a group facilitator.
Aaron Woods: I'm very upfront with my clients. It's. Just because Jennifer and I are facilitators doesn't mean we don't struggle with things in our own shops as well.
Carm Capriotto: Thank you for bringing that up. I think that's so important.
Aaron Woods: It is. It really is. I mean, I You're also, I'm a technician short at my shop right now.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, you're learning from the group too. Yes. Oh, wait a minute. You're absolutely, you gotta go back, put your money where your mouth is.
Aaron Woods: No, but here's the thing.
Aaron Woods: You're right. And that's powerful. It's like, because we sit at the front of the room, it's like, oh, well Aaron and Jennifer have the answers. That may not be the case. Like I always tell people. I learn more than I teach. And we should, right? And that's the thing, it's your end goal is never a destination.
Aaron Woods: It's always a journey. It's always a journey, right?
Jennifer Hulbert: But it's also who you surround yourself with. So if you surround yourself with those people who are going to help make those improvements or give those ideas, then that is why we are all here.
Carm Capriotto: Let's go down a different path. How does homework get done? I know that everyone who leaves their group sessions has homework. Does it get done?
Jennifer Hulbert: Most of the time, but it goes back to the same ideology of are you working in your business or are you working on your business? So if you go back to your shop and you jump right into a service advisor role, your homework, so to speak, or your ownership duties are gonna take a second seat to that.
Jennifer Hulbert: So do you have the proper people in place to be able to step out of the day-to-day role and say, I am going to make a commitment and I'm going to get X, Y, z done because I am looking for a goal or I'm looking for a different result of what I'm doing right now.
Carm Capriotto: Aaron, I wanna. Get a coach and facilitator and once we get over the hurdle that I can come in, the next question that I ask you is, okay, Aaron, oh, thanks for having me.
Carm Capriotto: Shall I start working on sales costs or margin? Where? Where do I start?
Aaron Woods: I think I. Margin is where I think the easiest thing that we can deploy in our business. Right. And that's when I begin working with a client. And of course the first thing I do when I look at a financial statement is I'll scan right to the bottom.
Aaron Woods: And give me a percentage of sales. Right. And if that net profit isn't where it needs to be. The second place I'm gonna go every time is to the margins, to the gross profits. Gross profits are the easiest and quickest way that we can fix, I don't wanna say fix the business.
Carm Capriotto: Legitimate fixes. Real live, honest to God. Oh. The coach is justifying their fee because I just raised my labor rate and we hear a lot of that junk out there. In many cases, it's way untrue because that's where a big fix happens, to your point.
Aaron Woods: Yeah. I don't know that. I mean, is there a time to increase a door rate?
Aaron Woods: Yes, but I look at it in a little bit of a different perspective in the sense of a door rate is really just a figurative thing. It's the effective labor rate is really what's important. It's how many dollars on average are you taking to the bank for every build hour, and that's your effective. So it's really where does our effective labor rate need to be?
Aaron Woods: And that effective labor rate calculation is really just looking at what are your expenses? What are your margins need to be? So then what does our effective labor rate? And the point I'm making here is. The setting of the effective labor rate. Now granted, the door rate might need to be moved to move the needle on effective, but that's just one of the four or five different ways to move effective labor rate.
Aaron Woods: That's what it's truly about, and that's oftentimes, if we do arrive at the conclusion that the door rate needs to be increased, it's not just to increase a door rate, it's. Because we've gone through and we've looked at the calculations, we know where it needs to be because of other information. Then we make that decision.
Aaron Woods: It's never, Jennifer, you might speak as well, but I don't think I've ever looked at a p and L and been like, well, it's a door rate issue or
Jennifer Hulbert: No. And more of what type of production is coming out of the shop. So you can set your margins to be whatever you want them to be. If you're not turning out the work or attracting the customers to be able to turn out the work, then what are we doing?
Jennifer Hulbert: And I use the analogy. Almost every meeting, and I did on Wednesday. If you had a 300 gallon bulk oil drum, would you turn the spigot on and watch the oil go down the drain? No, no shop owner would do that, but that is what we do with our labor inventory every single day. Correct. 'cause we're not managing it.
Carm Capriotto: I kind of knew the answer to this because although margins may be a quick fix, there are all the key issues of sales margin and cost management are just things you gotta pay attention to. Period done, case closed.
Jennifer Hulbert: There are so many, I mean, again, you have your labor. Do you have the right marketing to attract the right customer?
Jennifer Hulbert: Do you have the right service advisor skills to be able to turn that DVI into an average repair order? I mean, there's so many other factors besides, let's look at your parts matrix or your labor rate.
Aaron Woods: Jennifer's hitting the nail on the head. I love the analogy of the 55 gallon drum of oil. And it's like, yeah, I mean there's so many factors to pay attention to and I also understand as a younger shop owner, a struggling shop owner, I.
Aaron Woods: That's a lot to try and find and fix. And it's like, well, how do I have time to do that? And I think the ultimate goal is work on one thing at a time. Right. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the information is there. You have to buckle down and solve it.
Carm Capriotto: I'm with Jennifer Holbert from Service Plus Calcium New York. Also a facilitator here for the gear groups here at the institute and Aaron Woods from Extra Mile Autocare in Stillwater, Oklahoma. Let's wrap this up. Give me one aha moment of your life as a facilitator. Any aha moment you'd love to share?
Jennifer Hulbert: This is more rewarding than I ever thought possible.
Carm Capriotto: Wow.
Jennifer Hulbert: Being able to watch the improvements of the group members and the entire group process. So one of the notable achievements that we accomplished this year was increasing the net profit of the entire group process by almost 1% in 12 months.
Carm Capriotto: Collectively?
Jennifer Hulbert: Collectively across the entire program.
Carm Capriotto: Net operating income?
Carm Capriotto: Wow.
Jennifer Hulbert: So sitting back and saying, you know, wow, we had a part of that. And I say we, Aaron and I make a very fantastic team and we collaborate a lot with our different groups, but. Seeing that we are impacting 72 shop owners' lives with better profitability.
Jennifer Hulbert: For them to be able to take that and make notable improvements in not only their business, but their employees' lives and their communities is much more satisfying than I ever thought possible.
Carm Capriotto: You just said a big number 72, and I think about herding cattle.
Jennifer Hulbert: Or chasing cats.
Carm Capriotto: Wow. Okay. Because if I was to your group, this guy is a disciplinary and strictness guy, you know, in front of that group, I guess that's the only wage you've gotta have that structure, right?
Aaron Woods: Structure, yes. There's a time to push and there's a time to pull. Right. There's a time to lead, there's a time to motivate, and you know, and that's something that we, you know, continually learn, you know, as our experience grows.
Aaron Woods: But I love what Jennifer said, the 1% increase, and somebody might think, well, that's 1%, but we're talking about millions of dollars. Millions. That, and to take what she said and to build on that, it's when, just like the institute, better business, better life, better industry, right? It's. When we collectively, Jennifer and I make that type of impact, right?
Aaron Woods: You're creating a better business, and this is what I love about this. You are making a better business for not just the owner, but when the owner has a better business, then the owner has a better life and business for each one of his employees. And that the, each one of those employees that has a family that is in impacted and it's, and so when you look at the spider web effect of what that does. To me it's, it transcends auto repair. Right? It's making an impact to society. And that to me is my biggest takeaway. I don't have one.
Carm Capriotto: It's a good aha moment.
Aaron Woods: Different than that because I used to build upon that.
Carm Capriotto: You just, I think, nailed a great summary of why facilitating, why grouping, why networking.
Carm Capriotto: Why coaching so important. Yeah. We're doing this for you and your business, potentially your, you know, to build wealth for all the things you want to do as a spouse of a family. But you just nailed the fact that the work family is just as important. Talk about retention, recruiting, and all. I mean, there are some people that want more in life than we're currently giving them.
Carm Capriotto: They want more money. How do we get 'em that, how do we pay for their education? On and down the line. And for anyone who's listening, if your owner, your business owner, CEO, has decided to get into a coaching group, that's good for you too.
Jennifer Hulbert: It is.
Aaron Woods: Absolutely. My employees live better lives because of the group process.
Jennifer Hulbert: I would agree with that.
Carm Capriotto: Aaron. Jennifer, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Aaron Woods: Thank you.
Jennifer Hulbert: Thanks for having us.

Friday Mar 28, 2025
113 - The Blueprint for Growth: Business Management Best Practices
Friday Mar 28, 2025
Friday Mar 28, 2025
113 - The Blueprint for Growth: Business Management Best Practices
March 5th, 2025 - 00:46:13
Show Summary:
In this episode of The Digital Shop Talk Radio, host AutoVitals, Lauren Thunen, is joined by shop owner Bob Conant of Bob Kaiser’s Repair and Jimmy Lea of The Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. They dive into what it takes to successfully transition from technician to business owner, highlighting the power of coaching, team culture, and shop efficiency. Bob shares his journey from working every role in the shop to owning and optimizing it, with a strong focus on technology, documentation, and transparency. Jimmy emphasizes personalized coaching strategies, improving technician efficiency, and creating a strong workplace culture. The discussion includes practical examples of boosting ARO through DVIs and insights into what drives long-term shop success.
Host(s):
Lauren Thunen, AutoVitals
Guest(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Bob Conant, Owner of Bob Kaiser's Repair
Episode Highlights:
[00:04:00] - Bob explains the biggest challenge in becoming an owner was learning the financial side of the business.[00:07:15] - Jimmy outlines how The Institute tailors coaching to each shop’s specific needs before moving them into group peer-learning environments.[00:11:45] - Bob shares why he embraced technology despite being in a small town; efficiency, transparency, and customer education.[00:14:12] - The panel discusses how DVIs improve communication and trust, especially when customers can see issues firsthand.[00:16:00] - Bob’s shop averages 60 pictures per inspection, emphasizing documentation for both service value and internal use.[00:20:52] - Data from AutoVitals shows higher picture counts and longer DVI review times correlate with increased AROs.[00:26:09] - Bob credits his team’s buy-in and communication as key to increasing overall shop efficiency.[00:30:41] - Jimmy shares shop efficiency tips, including stocking drinks and tools nearby to reduce wasted steps.[00:34:25] - Bob’s shop achieves over 130% technician efficiency while maintaining a focus on quality, not volume.[00:38:09] - Both guests stress the importance of transparency with staff and building a strong culture to retain top talent.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8Xrs13vigU
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
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Lauren Thunen: Great. Good morning and good afternoon to everyone who has already joined us. Thank you to everyone who joined early and was waiting so patiently in the waiting room. I love to see that. So very prompt group of shop owners that we got today. I'm really excited about today's edition of the Digital Shop Talk Radio.
Lauren Thunen: Firstly because we have an amazing shop owner, Bob Conet, who is the owner of Bob Kaiser's repair in Hilton, New York, go Bills and. We also have Jimmy Lee. If you don't know Jimmy Lea , he has been an influential person in the automotive industry for decades. He is one of the core founding members of Auto Vitals.
Lauren Thunen: He's then worked for KUKUI , he's now with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, which is one of the premier coaching groups in the automotive industry. So instead of me doing all the talking and telling you how wonderful these people are, Bob, could you start off and just tell us a little bit about yourself and your shop so attendees can get familiar with you?
Bob Conant: Sure, yeah. I've I've been here for a long time, so since the shop opened in 83, I worked on and off here for Bob for a long time. I've been back for 24 years now, and I recently, I purchased it about four years ago.
Lauren Thunen: Got it. So you've been working at the shop for 24 years, and then you purchased it as the owner four years ago?
Bob Conant: Yep. I've done every position here from cleanup to tow truck, to tech, to advisor to, yeah, everything.
Lauren Thunen: That's awesome. That's awesome. And then how long have you been working with the Institute on the business coaching side of things?
Bob Conant: Well we rejoined, we were with the Institute before and we rejoined when I purchased the business.
Bob Conant: I rejoined then, so Awesome. Back with 'em for four years. I think we were with 'em for probably about five, six years before that.
Lauren Thunen: Got it. Cool. Cool, cool. And then Jimmy, could you go ahead and introduce yourself as well as tell a little bit about what the Institute does for shops?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. My name is Jimmy Lee.
Jimmy Lea: I've been in the automotive industry now for a while I lost a bet and that's why I'm here. So. Figure that one out. If you got questions about that, we'll have to talk on a personal basis. But I would love to tell you that story. It's so much fun. The automotive industry has been absolutely a blessing to me, to my life, to my family, to, to my wife, to my children.
Jimmy Lea: I. The automotive industry is the best vertical, the best industry that we could ever anticipate or even want is it's absolutely amazing. It's so much fun. We just have a great time and the industry is the biggest heart there is. I've never met a shop owner that's not willing to go above and beyond the expectations.
Jimmy Lea: And the Institute is. A premier coaching and training company within the automotive industry. We help shops and shop owners to understand how to run their business and be the business side of the business. Many of them are raised in the shop. They are raised in the. Shop environment. They know how to turn a wrench.
Jimmy Lea: They know how to service a vehicle, but there's a whole nother skill set that they want to develop, that they need to develop. And that skill set and that muscle set is business ownership. So it, the auto the the Institute side of coaching and training is business coaching and training for shop owners to help them understand what they need to do to run their businesses the best.
Lauren Thunen: Awesome. Thank you for that overview, and that ties in perfectly. So what we're gonna chat the most about today, I am sure we'll go off topic as sometimes happens with a group like this, but is about business management best practices to really take your shot. To the next level, calling it the blueprint of growth.
Lauren Thunen: And who better than Bob, who has not only been a shop owner for four years, but has made that transition as Jimmy mentioned, from working inside of the shop to taking that next step as being the owner. So, Bob, could you tell us a little bit about like what were the biggest challenges that, that you faced in moving from role to role in the shop and then eventually taking over as the business owner?
Bob Conant: Yeah, I think it's the unknown. I think it's what you don't know, right? So, for me, I mean, I knew how to work on cars. Yeah. And that was the easy part, right? And then moving into dealing with customers, that was actually, I enjoy that part. I enjoy the interaction and whatnot. But as you move along through there, and now you're into management and trying to figure out the numbers, which are the least fun of everything, right?
Bob Conant: To learn that. And that's where the Institute comes in and your peers of, you know, helping you go through that transition stage. 'cause it, it was, I mean, to learn QuickBooks and p and ls and all that stuff it's the non-fun stuff, right. Which is what I say to customers now. I said, you know, I get to do all the non-fun stuff, pay the bills, taxes, all that kind of good stuff.
Bob Conant: So, moving through that, yeah it was tough because you just don't know. You don't know what you're doing. And without the help of other shop owners and systems through the Institute, man, it would've been even harder, which is why I rejoined the group.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah, that makes ton of sense. I always say that my job would be so much fun if I didn't have to worry about making auto vitals money.
Lauren Thunen: Right. Like the. The end of the day when you are looking at the the p and l, that's when things get really real. So what Jimmy do you typically, what are kind of the foundations that you work with a shop owner like Bob to cover, to make sure that they're able to successfully make that transition from doing the fun stuff to doing the really hard stuff.
Jimmy Lea: You know, that's interesting. There's every shop has a little bit of a different journey that they're on. So imagine life is a long trail or a long path. Some are way off the path, some are close to the path. And so when we bring in a shop and a shop owner into the Institute to talk about their business, we're gonna meet them where they are.
Jimmy Lea: I'm thinking of a specific shop. You okay if I mention names? Yes. Tracy Holt with a performance place. He came to us and said, Hey, look, don't talk to me about car count. Don't talk to me about average repair order. That's not what I need. I'm doing very well in those spots right now. I'm a 7% net profit shop.
Jimmy Lea: I want more. I can't break that 7%, that 8%. I'm stuck. I've been through three other training companies. That's the first thing they want to talk about is about average repair order and about car count. He says, I need shop efficiencies. I help me with my shop efficiency and we will grow this business exponentially.
Jimmy Lea: Five technicians, 14 bays. Big shop in is he in Sandy or South Jordan? I think he might be South. Jordan, Utah. He's in Utah. I went and visited his shop. Phenomenal. Been in the family for generations. The oldest business in city, wherever he is. Man, I can't remember. I think it's South Jordan, the oldest business.
Jimmy Lea: Back in the day when dad was doing the business, it was all about working on the agricultural vehicles, agricultural tractors and that stuff. So we need to meet people where they are and then take them from there. So. Anytime somebody comes into the Institute the first thing we're gonna do is have those one-on-one meetings with the coach, because we want those meetings to be discovery.
Jimmy Lea: Where are you at? What are your inefficiencies? How can we help you the most? And there's a time period somewhere between three and nine months when a shop comes into the Institute, somewhere in between that three to nine months that it. Clicks, the lights turn on. Oh my gosh. I, yeah, I get it.
Jimmy Lea: I understand. Now this makes sense. Okay. Now that when that happens, there's a hockey stick, their business increases exponentially and the progression, the natural progression of a shop and a shop owner is to go from one-on-one coaching and training into a group environment. When you have that mastermind, that peer-to-peer learning, that the learning, the stickiness, the retention is so much higher than when it's just the one-on-one experience.
Jimmy Lea: The reason we don't throw people into that group environment first is because they're not ready yet. Their numbers aren't right. Their books aren't right. Their p and l doesn't look right. They may have personal expenses mixed in with their business expenses. I get it. I understand. I know. I it happens, right?
Jimmy Lea: Bob? I dunno what you're talking about. No, not anymore. Not anymore. Right. But it does, it happens. And shop owners, we, we do that. So there was a shop owner we were talking to the other day, $1,200 a month for Walmart. Like, what's this in your p and l? Oh, that's my groceries. I'm buying my groceries.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Well, I understand. Don't do that. Give yourself a raise. Buy your groceries outta your own private, and then have the business be the business. So when they get into this group environment, peer to peer, they open their books, they show each other, they have a composite partner. Who's your composite are?
Jimmy Lea: Are you in a group, Bob? Yes. Yes. What group? What group are you in? Oh, I'm in I'm group two, the best group. Group two. I do agree. I, group two is a phenomenal group of the groups. They each have their own dynamics, and group two is very. Let's say high tech. They're they're tech savvy.
Jimmy Lea: They're tech hungry, they're tech implementers. They're the alphas. If somebody's in beta group two is the one that's in the Alphas that is testing it, por the betas are testing it. The, this is a group that is really tech forward. So to your group, Bob, that's a phenomenal group. If I was to put somebody in Bob's group today, Joe's Garage.
Jimmy Lea: He would be embarrassed because he would have to stand up in front of the group and talk about his numbers and talk about his shop and talk about his business, but he's not ready yet. He, his p and l's dirty, he's got personal expenses in there. It's not a good thing. So we've got to get them ready. With that time period with a one-on-one coach.
Jimmy Lea: So they're meeting twice a month for an hour. Every other week they meet with the coach, and the coach is helping them to see where their inefficiencies are. So back to my story with Tracy Holt, 7% net profit in the month of, it was either December or January, had a record breaking month. And by the way, he's continues to have record breaking months to the point that he is now 20.
Jimmy Lea: It was 23.9. Percent net profit.
Jimmy Lea: That was within a nine month time period. He went from a 7% net profit to a 2320 4% net profit. That's pretty cool. That's a good place to be. And absolutely phenomenal. In fact, we'll talk here in a minute. When you ask me another question, we're gonna talk about some clubs that we have here with the Institute that are pretty amazing.
Lauren Thunen: Awesome. Cool. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that, Jimmy. And you mentioned that Bob's group, te group two is very tech forward. That is actually something that I wanted to ask you, Bob, because your shop is in a small town, right? Population's in like the 7,000 to 10,000 range, right? In Hilton. Yes. State New York, if you're not familiar, as almost as close to Canada as you can get without being, actually being in Canada what kind of was the impulse to be?
Lauren Thunen: You have such a heavy investment in technology. You've been with Auto Vitals for a while. I think you're using almost every product that we offer. I know you're also with Tech Metric. What has really driven that strategy? Because I hear a lot of shops that might be in a more. Like not in a big city, say like, oh, we don't need that.
Lauren Thunen: We don't need that. We know our customers. What was the impulse to be such a tech forward shop, especially given where you're located?
Bob Conant: Well, again, I mean, if you ask my family, I've always looked for the latest tech stuff and, you know, that kind of stuff is always kind of cool.
Bob Conant: But for me shopwise, it was it was just for efficiency and for ease. I mean, you know, going from written paper to a point of sale that now it integrates in with looking up your parts and then you tie that in with auto vitals to where you're able to do we call 'em health evaluations on vehicles and look these things over and document everything.
Bob Conant: And really it was more for me of the documenting stuff to be able to look back at. I mean, I remember the days of trying to find an invoice. And all it's, you know, it's, it was sometime in June. Now you gotta go upstairs, go into the file and kind of look through and hope someone actually put it in a proper spot.
Bob Conant: Where today everything is scanned in organized on a Google Drive, and you can find it by typing into search fields. So, you know, it's a lot about efficiency and convenience. And I, and for me it's been a huge change over the years compared to where we were, that's for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. And the tech forward that Bob is doing is to educate the clients, educate the customer. Yeah. Those dvs, they help that. That vehicle health check, that helps educate a customer so much when you can show what's worn, torn, leaking, broken, cracked, seeping. When you show that I, as a client and much more educated, I make better decisions when Bob calls on the phone and says, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Jimmy Lea: All these things are broken, $2,500. Dude I drove my car in. I'm gonna drive it out. I just want you to change the oil. Education is so paramount, and there's been beautiful ways that we've been able to educate our customers and our clients through dvs, digital inspections, through animated videos tech videos, informational videos that talk about a water pump, a water cooler, a timing belt, why it's important, why it needs to be serviced, why you need to change it now instead of.
Jimmy Lea: Down the road when you're stuck on the side of the road because your timing belt was thrown, broke, and worn out. The time to do your maintenance is now not then.
Bob Conant: And it just holds in for all the documentation. You can see what it was last time it was in and what it is this time, how it's progressed, you know, things like that.
Bob Conant: It really is. It's, for me, it's just one of those things of, it's the transparency to the customer. They're actually looking at what we're looking at. You know, it can be done in relatively real time, so. You know, that part of the technology of the days of, you know, having to try to explain it to 'em and then when they come in, show it to 'em you know, hang onto the parts for 'em.
Bob Conant: If they wanted them, you know, nowadays you're not seeing that because it's all already documented. They've already seen it. They could tell that it was bent or broken or leaking, whatever it is. So all that is already handled and it's just, it makes more seamless and more value to the customer for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Bob, did you have clients or customers that you'd take pictures in your DVI and you're like, yeah your upper sway bars are worn out, or your ball joints are worn or that bushing is gone or that motor mount and they, you send 'em a picture, so to you or to your technicians, it's like, yeah, right here.
Jimmy Lea: That motor mount, a client looks at it and goes, dude, I don't even know what I'm looking at.
Bob Conant: Right. Yes. Yeah. Well, yeah we've had that 'cause before, before auto vitals and the other DVI companies out there, they're, we were physically still taking pictures with cameras and up on a hard drive and storing all those, you know, so it was, yeah.
Bob Conant: People don't know. I mean, it's just like if someone showed the inside of your body without having, you know, someone explain it to you, arrows, circles, whatever it is, you'd have no idea. So that, that, that's where all that information that ties in with it comes in handy. I mean, all the documentation of stuff, of what a water pump does and all that kind of, you know, value to the customer.
Bob Conant: And it is teaching them to get a little bit more, you know, educated on the subjects.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. And Bob I know your shop is truly best in class in terms of the documentation I was just pulling up, you're at about 60 pictures per inspection. Yeah. So how many topics are you doing on your inspection?
Lauren Thunen: And then like Yeah, talk a little bit about that picture count and how you get there. Because if you're watching this webinar, you don't already know. The the picture rate is one of the highest correlations to average repair order value when we take a look at our inspection. So what's driving that, that picture count for your shop?
Bob Conant: One guy that's picture happy, that doesn't, does a good job. So the other guys are learning from that, right? So we have, we obviously we have our operating procedure of what we expect to have pictures of all the good, all the bad. And a lot of it is for documenting. I mean, if it's good and the tires are good and the struts and shocks are good, and you're documenting that you have that information for future, so. We had one guy that was, I'd say, overzealous on pictures and and he was actually the backbone of looking at it going, Hey, look at, we can get all these pictures. You're not still spending a ton of time doing it and document it for down the road.
Bob Conant: You know? So at least for me, if I'm an advisor and I'm, and you call up and you say, well. You know, what kind of condition the vehicle's in. I've got enough pictures to really to be able to evaluate it and say it's great or it's not. And without that it's, you know, it's, we used to take pictures of all your basics, you know, your steering, your suspension stuff, your tires and then you get into more stuff with, you know, frame condition points and just exhaust, you know, everything in between.
Bob Conant: Yes. You can look at it and I have no questions for the technician, which means I can service the customer better, give 'em more information. It's just it's been a huge thing. I almost thought it was too many pictures, but I mean, six, an average of 60 is, is a lot. And but it's great for documentation.
Bob Conant: I mean, we've had it, we've had it save our butt, you know, from time to time. And it's great to be able to have the customer see what we're seeing.
Jimmy Lea: So Bob to, to your 60 que pictures. I mean, that just absolutely blows my mind. I remember the early days of auto vitals and I was really pounding the drum saying, come on, you guys get 12.
Jimmy Lea: Make your standard 12 pictures per DVI and it'll increase your average repair order. 18%, 20, 20 pictures. Yeah. Average 20 pictures. Okay. CYA. Totally different topic. Yes, 60 pictures is definitely gonna cover your behind. Do have you analyzed each of these technicians to say, all right, Joe, 60 pictures, your average repair order is $1,800 or $800 or 900, what?
Jimmy Lea: Whatever the number is, you're this number. And Mary and Susie, your dvs are 20 pictures and your average repair order is. $300. Is there that plain and obvious of a correlation between these two?
Bob Conant: No. No. And it's not really cut and dry. And actually we just had this conversation about it is 60 pitchers too overwhelming?
Bob Conant: You know, either way it goes back to most customers don't know what they're looking at. Which is why it's our job to advise them of what they're looking at and the condition of it, right? Because I mean, that, that's actually the best part of my job is our job here really is to just educate the customer of the condition of the vehicle.
Bob Conant: Whether you have it done here or not really, doesn't matter to me. If you can trust me, then you'll have it done here. Otherwise, my job is to inform you what it needs and when it needs it and, you know, so that's why we document as much as we do.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. That's really good. And I like the advocacy that you're having for the vehicle that says, Hey, this is what your vehicle needs, whether you have us do it, or Uncle Fred or whomever, the guy down the road, or you take it back home to Arizona and have somebody down there do it.
Jimmy Lea: Doesn't matter. It still needs to be done. Here's the information. That you make a decision.
Bob Conant: Yes.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah we have a couple questions in the chat about the pictures. So Kelly was just saying picture 60 pictures is impressive. We average 40 sal. Just ask, similar to what you asked Jimmy, is there a point where it's too many overload also.
Lauren Thunen: Hi Sal. It's nice to see you. We haven't chatted a while. I think there it's, it, you definitely toy a a fine line there. Think probably Bob, what's setting your shop apart as well as your ability to walk the customer through the inspection. And also a lot of those pictures I know 'cause I've taken a look at your inspections are on items that are good.
Lauren Thunen: Where the customer might not be spending a ton of time going through that good section of the inspection. They're just like, oh, great. They're taking photographic evidence. They're not just looking for the things that are bad on my vehicle, they're actually documenting for my reference what's good. And then you can use those pictures later on to compare when something moves into the yellow or red of like, Hey, this was great last time we took it into the shop.
Lauren Thunen: No issues on your tread depth, but now 10,000 miles later, you're gonna have to start looking at replacing your tires. So I think it's also just like it's not all 60 photos in the red and yellow where folks are swiping through. 60 photos. It's spread out through every single inspection topic. And that's something that at Auto Vitals, we really remind folks is take pictures of what is good.
Lauren Thunen: That's so important. And then I also just wanted to share, it's kind of had this off the cuff, you're gonna see my whole desktop. I'm sorry about that. Just the way this Zooms share is, but I'll spread it out, is I actually took a look at all of our 2024 shop data that we collect and I graphed.
Lauren Thunen: Number of pictures in average repair order. So again, this is all auto vitals clients. There's some weird stuff that happens like in this five to 20 range where there's not a ton of change, but when you get into that 30 plus, I didn't map 60 plus 'cause there's not a ton of shops in that area, but you're the only one dramatically increases when you move past that 30 threshold range.
Lauren Thunen: The biggest thing is because you're giving something for the customers to look out. Right? Obviously, folks that are having 40 plus pictures are not only recommending two items, so there's some correlating factors, but you know, numbers don't lie. If you're getting into that 30, 40 range, your a RO will increase.
Jimmy Lea: That's, that is a cool thing to see.
Bob Conant: And I say we, we've seen that, and a lot of it is it's really just informing 'em. I mean, it's you're. If you're looking at the vehicle and looking it over, you're gonna find stuff that's needed. Right. So, and as long as you're not ramming it down someone's throat you know you're gonna, you're gonna eventually get the sale on him.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Because if you showed me 60 pictures and it was all red and yellow, you know, emergency, you have to do it now. I'd be like, deuce is I'm trading her in. I'm done. Yeah. This is I'm driving Swiss cheese here. No.
Bob Conant: Yeah, I don't know if you could tell how many are good or how many are marked good or not, you know, off of it.
Bob Conant: Then, you know, we take a lot of good, we take a lot of pictures of good stuff.
Bob Conant: Because that's really what matters. You know, what's the condition of the vehicle? What do you need to get out of it? How long is it gonna last? When are you gonna need it? Those are really the biggest questions.
Bob Conant: Right. So.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. What's your dreams with this vehicle? And there's probably some people that you talked to, Bob, where it is been for sale for. It's gonna be sold next month for like the last three years.
Bob Conant: Right? Yes. That happens.
Jimmy Lea: It does. It does. And maybe that's their true intention. I do intend on selling it, but then when it comes down to it, they just don't and who knows, but to be safe on the road, right.
Jimmy Lea: These are the things you need to pay attention to. Yep. Absolutely.
Lauren Thunen: And I saw that Kelly was interested in the graph that I shared, so I'm just gonna show one more graph that is similar in what we're talking about. So the other thing that I'm sure Bob and our shops folks a lot on is customer research time, which is just the measure of how long folks are looking at the inspection.
Lauren Thunen: And again, keep in mind these are all auto vitals clients, so these are not just specialty shops. But if you're, you guys can see my screen, right? Yeah. If you're able to get, this is the most direct correlation. If you're able to get a customer looking at an inspection for over 400 seconds, statistically compared to someone that's looking at the inspection for a minute and a half, your a RO is gonna be over double that amount if you're following industry best practices.
Lauren Thunen: So again, that's tying into what Bob's selling telling us is like. To get someone to look at the inspection for over 400 seconds, you have to have a lot for them to look through and for a lot for them to research. And your service advisors have to be making sure on the phone, Hey, pull up the inspection.
Lauren Thunen: Let's walk through the yellow and red together. Right? So it's a combination of the A great DVI process, a great selling that's from the service advisor and setting great customer expectations of what you want them to do with that DVI when you send it to them.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, that makes total sense too.
Jimmy Lea: If you, the people that are that down at that lower range, they're looking at it for a minute and a half, two minutes, three minutes, that's the quick decision of, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Nope. Okay. Do it. Those are the things. Yeah, let's do it. When it gets up into that $1,100 average repair order, it's probably got three or four or $5,000 worth of work that needs to be done.
Jimmy Lea: They're having to look at it to prioritize. All right, Bob. What do I have to do today and what can I do in 60 days and what can I do in 120 days?
Lauren Thunen: Yep.
Bob Conant: Yep. That's the whole purpose of it. And it, and again, yeah, it is a lot of pictures and you gotta take good quality pictures and informative pictures. So it's, but we've been looking, trying to look at that to see is it too much?
Bob Conant: Are people, and we've been asking our clients and. For the most part, the response is, wow, you guys, you know, I didn't know there was that much in my vehicle. And you know, you guys really take a lot of pictures and look these things over. So, it's, everything's a work in progress. So, you know, you have to look at that and say, okay are we giving the customers what they need?
Jimmy Lea: And it sounds like you are, it sounds like the customers are saying, no, don't change it. We like what you're doing. Thank you.
Bob Conant: The response has been overwhelming, especially for new clients that come in that, that, you know, a lot other shops may not be up to this speed and you're, they're getting a report and they're like, oh my gosh, I had no idea.
Bob Conant: So, which is what you want?
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. That's super
Lauren Thunen: good.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. Awesome. Cool. I, well, I wanna change, pivot a little bit slightly 'cause that was a great conversation about the DVI process. Bob, I know you had mentioned that one of the biggest things that your focus when you became the owner of Bob Kaiser's repair is on efficiency.
Lauren Thunen: So what are some of like the biggest wins that you've made in the shop since you've been in the shop? To increase the overall efficiency.
Bob Conant: I think a lot of it, it starts with my staff. I mean, I've got a, I've got a great group of guys now, and I think for that is they were, they're all on board and they're bought into what we're trying to accomplish.
Bob Conant: And there's a lot of communication back and forth to where everybody has input. So if you want things to change, you need everyone to make a change. And for me, that's been the biggest thing for me, is just sitting down with everyone and going, all right, hey, let's figure this out. How can we do it?
Bob Conant: You know, instead of me just saying, this is how we're gonna do it. You need everyone's input. So I think that has increased the flow of knowing why we're doing things and pushing it in that direction. So yeah, for me it's, it is been my staff. It's, I've been very fortunate that it is been easy.
Bob Conant: I haven't had a lot of fight back on any of the things we've imple implemented.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. And why do you think that is that you haven't had a lot of pushback? 'cause I think that probably speaks to you being a great leader. And I think that's one of the most important things as a shop owner.
Lauren Thunen: So what have you done to, to get everybody on board? Give yourself some credit.
Bob Conant: I like to have fun.
Bob Conant: For me. I want to come to work every day and have fun. Right? We all know we're gonna have problems. We all know that this industry and this job can suck at times. Right. So it's the best of what you it is whatever you make of it.
Bob Conant: And for me, I've always told my advisors and my techs look at, we know things are gonna go wrong. You know, it's all on how you respond to 'em. That makes a difference. So for me, when things go wrong, for me not flying off the handle and, you know, handling it in a certain manner, you know.
Bob Conant: Gets them in that same kind of habit of affecting, you know, addressing things the same way. So, yeah, I think for me it's just been I like to have fun. I do a lot for my staff. We do a lot of things together and, you know, cooking breakfast and lunch and, you know, cornhole games and all that kind of stuff in the shop.
Bob Conant: So I, I think I just like to have fun, which I guess my personality kind of goes to them and lets them en enjoy their job, I guess.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, that's great to hear, especially with, I know a ton of shops are having retention issues across positions in the shop and like that you can't underrate like liking where you work.
Lauren Thunen: You know, even if you're not getting paid as well as the shop maybe next door or there might be a different opportunity that you wanna explore if you like going to work. Most folks are not gonna be shopping around for another job.
Bob Conant: Yeah it definitely makes a difference. I mean, your culture and atmosphere are huge in re retention and nowadays, I mean, you know, it's bad enough trying to find, everyone is dealing with staffing issues and it doesn't matter what industry you're in, I don't know where everyone went, but everyone's having a hard time finding staff and in this industry it's even worse.
Bob Conant: A lot of the older guys are, you know. Away and the new generation doesn't wanna learn like the older generation. So it's a little challenging at times.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. Yeah. And Jimmy what from like the Institute's perspective and your perspective, when you think about workflow and efficiencies, what are some of the common areas that you guys recommend shops taking a look at in their process to improve efficiency?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, thanks. That's a great question. I think a lot of that falls right in line with the technician and their efficiencies. What I see a lot of shops is that they are 50% or lower, the 50% or worse in their efficiencies. The national average is about a 70%. At the Institute, we're shooting for a hundred, 110, 120% tech efficiency.
Jimmy Lea: How do you do that? Well, it takes some leadership, it takes some direction, and it getting their buy-in to do that is paramount. So when Bob stands up and talks to his technicians, talks to his shop, talks to his people, he's probably asking a lot of questions like, Hey guys, what can we do to be more efficient?
Jimmy Lea: I want your input first. Then we'll talk about what Bob sees that he thinks needs input. Bob is that about right?
Bob Conant: Yeah, no, that, that's, I mean, right. I mean, they're, you know, again, they're the ones that are pedaling the bike, right? So, you need to get the, you need to get their input too to let just find out what they know and what they know works and what doesn't work and then you still guide it from there.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, so I'm gonna use just some numbers, easy numbers, easy math 'cause it's public math is never a good thing. So, for example, if your door rate is $200 and your technicians are 50% efficient, you are not making $200 an hour. You might be making a hundred, maybe 120 because those texts aren't just, aren't efficient.
Jimmy Lea: Improving their efficiencies through parts, how they're ordered, how they're brought in, how they're staged for the technicians. Huge. Putting your filters by the quick Lube Bay, paramount. Why are you making the tech walk six miles a day just to get those filters? Put the filters close. What can we do? So ask, I would start by asking the technicians, what can we do inside the shop?
Jimmy Lea: What have you noticed? What do you, what would you change? If you had your magic wand bing, and there was something you could change inside of our shop to be more efficient, what would you change? And you'd be surprised at what they come up with. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, boss, we need a coffee machine in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: Because there's a black trail from the shop to the coffee machine inside of the customer waiting area. Right. Bob, you're laughing. Is this your story?
Bob Conant: Oh no. They're pretty good.
Jimmy Lea: Because if the techs don't have their coffee machine out there, they're gonna come get the coffee. So what can we do to be more efficient?
Jimmy Lea: They can have a coffee machine in the shop. Saves them all those steps, all those back and forth, and the customer waiting area is cleaner. The customers have a better experience. Your technicians aren't gone as long. They're able to stay at the vehicle longer. It just goes a long way. I know some shops that, that they're buying Red Bull and Monster and Rock Stars and whatever it is that the technician wants to consume during the day.
Jimmy Lea: Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, mountain Dew, whatever it is, it doesn't matter. They keep the fridge stocked for 'em so that they don't have to leave, go to the gas station and then come back. They keeps 'em at the shop and they're more efficient because they're constantly working inside the shop. They don't leave.
Jimmy Lea: In fact, there's another shop up in, I think it's up in Michigan every day. Lunch is at the shop. All the technicians that the shop owner brings in lunch every day, they eat together. So techs don't leave. They don't have to leave and come back. They're there, they get some relaxed time. So it only takes, what, 20 minutes, 15, 20 minutes to eat.
Jimmy Lea: But if you're going offsite all the time, well, it's 10, 15 minutes to drive. You wait, you order, you have to shovel quick. You're 10, 15 minutes back. And what if you're late? Now you're 5, 10, 15 minutes late, getting back to the shop. I thought it was brilliant that this shop owner brings in food for everybody, everyday.
Lauren Thunen: yeah. Yeah, it's a good to call out that there's a lot of things that, you know, technology can help with on terms of the efficiency, but also there's a lot of quick wins that regardless of what you're using for your workflow process, just sitting in the back of the shop. And, you know, something that we did at Lauren Thunens, I'm sure Jimmy you'll remember this when we first started, is we went and.
Lauren Thunen: Clocked how long? With a stopwatch it takes technicians to run from the front to the back of the shop to ask the service advisor questions. It adds up to like nine hours a month per technician of wasted time running back and forth to the shop. So just things like whenever you can minimize running from front to back of the shop, whether it's implementing like.
Lauren Thunen: An automatic dispatching system through workflow or an internal chat or moving the fridge to the back of the shop, you could save nine hours a month per technician. That's a lot of money. And I just wanted to compliment Bob, I was just taking, again, taking a look at your numbers. You have one of the best technician efficiency rates I see when I just, you know.
Lauren Thunen: Pull numbers, you're a hundred over 130% efficient for your technicians. So again, going back to what Jimmy mentioned, that if your walk-in rate's $200, you're able to make more than $200 an hour, right? Because your technicians are producing more than what they're billing. So just a great job. You numbers are looking great.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. That's super awesome. Congrats.
Bob Conant: I got great staff. I got a great staff. That's for sure.
Lauren Thunen: And then Bob, one question for you. Someone in the chat asked how many cars a week do you do at your shop?
Bob Conant: We're scaled down. It's kind of funny 'cause, you know, when I was prepping for looking at this webinar, I'm like, you know, some of the challenges we've had, I'm like, I remember we used to be a breakdown shop and we're a four bay shop in a old bus, you know, garage.
Bob Conant: It's got two bay doors and four lifts. We were doing, you know, over 500, 500 cars a week and we were, or a month, I'm sorry. And we were, 'cause we were just a breakdown shop. And then we kinda said, all right, we need to slow it down and, you know, service our customers. Look these vehicles over and take the time and give the customers what they should be getting.
Bob Conant: So now we're down to about, we average probably about 60 to 70 cars. I'd say a week. Yeah.
Lauren Thunen: Nice. Yeah, and I think you, you call that an important thing and I think a lot of shops especially like that move into a more robust DBI process start to actually reduce their car count because they're getting more out of every car and kind of shifting the focus from turning and burning to like, let's spend a little bit more time on every car.
Lauren Thunen: And typically you end up making a little bit more money anyway with that strategy.
Bob Conant: Yeah, I mean for ours it was, is we realized we weren't servicing the customer and we're going back a lot of years, but we had a customer come in with a leaking fuel filter and his car had already been in, you know, three times for that year and he gets towed in because he has a fuel filter leaking.
Bob Conant: Well, whose fault's that? Well, it's clearly ours. So, you know, that, that's kind of when the light bulb went off and said, Hey look, we need to make sure we're, it's not just a breakdown. You get it in, it's broken down, you fix it, you get on the road. We need to start looking these vehicles over. And, you know, for me.
Bob Conant: It's, I'd love to see that our tow in rate is low for our clients because we're maintaining their vehicle and advising on what it needs. So if they're getting towed in, either we did miss something or it's just because it wasn't done when it should have been done when they were advised.
Bob Conant: So, but again, that goes, falls back on us and that's our job to advise them. We're the professionals.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. I've heard a lot of shops that auto repair, they also have a towing side of their business. Once they're educating their customers, their clients using technology, dvs, texting, communicating videos, their tows went down so much that they decided to sell off their tow trucks because you're not towing your clients in anymore because they're not breaking down.
Jimmy Lea: They're maintaining their vehicles. Not breaking their vehicles.
Bob Conant: Yeah, absolutely.
Lauren Thunen: Awesome. Well, we are, we got about five, five minutes left. So just a note to attendees, if you have any questions for Bob and Jimmy while we have them. Throw them in the q and a. It's at the bottom of your screen. You might have to, can we just start, I know this is one of the fastest 45 minutes I think since I've been back doing the digital shop talk radio, and I wanted to ask both of you.
Lauren Thunen: Your parting thoughts? Bob I'll have you go first of when you look over like the past four years as being the business owner and making that transition, what is your biggest piece of advice to the other shop owners on this webinar to really take, continue to maximize their business and grow their business?
Bob Conant: I, you know, that's a great question. I think for me it's just, I, I've. For me, I've been me to my employees and I don't hide anything. I share everything with 'em. They know all the goods and the bads. So for me, I think that's been the biggest difference for me from other employers that I've worked for, is I'm more upfront and honest.
Bob Conant: And what you see is what you get. I'm not hiding numbers, I'm not hiding, you know, the goods and the bads because they should know it. They're all part of it. So. Yeah, I would say that's it for me.
Lauren Thunen: That's awesome and that's something I think I hear echoed through all of our top shop owners and you know, if you're providing the transparency to the customer on the DVI, you have all that information, all of the numbers through the business control panel, through your point of sale, I share that, be just as transparent with your staff. Because that is one of the biggest things in terms of retention as well, folks want to know how the business that they're working for is doing. No one wants to be blindsided. It's okay to have a bad month. It's okay to even have a bad year. As long as folks feel like they're on board, they know what's going on, and that you're really working to make changes 'cause you're gonna have a bad just happen.
Bob Conant: Yeah, we're all people. We're all in the same boat.
Lauren Thunen: Yep. Awesome. Yeah, that's great, Bob. And then, you know, Jimmy when you're thinking about, I know you visited thousands and thousands of shops. What is your biggest, you know, if you could give one piece of advice what's the biggest thing that you echo?
Jimmy Lea: Thank you. I, yeah. And I have been in thousands of shops all across North America, which has been such a blessing to see each one of these shops. They're unique. They're unique. What, what makes them different? What makes 'em stand out? What is that thing that they're doing that is just a little bit different?
Jimmy Lea: And it's wonderful. Some shops you can walk in and you can feel the tension. You can feel a horrible culture. It's so hard. There are shops that you can walk in and feel the excitement and the light and the energy. I. It's just absolutely paramount that we as business owners take care of our people to Bob's credit and props to you, Bob, for informing your clients not your clients your staff, your people, your team, that they know all the numbers.
Jimmy Lea: That beauty of doing that is you may be developing the next entrepreneur and helping him or her understand how to run a business properly. So that they can be efficient in their shop or in their business, who knows what they're gonna do, but you can help them to see what's coming down the road.
Jimmy Lea: Props to you for doing that, bro. So my recommendation as I go around and I see a lot of shops is start where you're at. Look at your, a lot of shops come to the Institute and they want. Coaching and training. My car count is down. My average repair order is down. I need to ramp up my marketing.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, well, let's look at what's going on inside the machine first before we go marketing the machine. Start with those efficiencies inside. What are you doing? How are you doing it? Is it documented? Does everybody understand the process, the program, the mission, the vision? Do they all understand why we're working here every day?
Jimmy Lea: That is gonna help that shop more than marketing. Marketing might sink that ship. If you are an inefficient shop, and let's say for example you're doing a hundred cars a week and you do some marketing and now you're 150 cars a week, your shop can't take that. You don't have the policies, process, procedures in place to take care of the people, the product and the program.
Jimmy Lea: It's not gonna work. Work inside, get the efficiencies down. Then we can look at ramping things up. And like with Tracy Holt, he his shop, the natural result of not paying attention to car count and average repair order, looking exclusively at the efficiencies. The beauty of that, the come around is.
Jimmy Lea: Because they were more efficient. Their average repair order went up because they were more efficient, they had more time to take care of more cars. The car count came up. Yeah. Yeah. And now and Tracy is in group three, so shout out to group three as well and shout out to any, all, any and all mastermind groups when you are in that peer environment, you've got.
Jimmy Lea: Another set of eyes looking at your business. We become snow blind to certain items or things. When you have an accountability partner looking at your business, he or she's gonna point out things about your business, Bob, that you may be glance over. You don't hold yourself accountable for. They're gonna hold you accountable for it.
Bob Conant: For sure.
Lauren Thunen: Yeah. Well, that takes us exactly to, to 10 :45. So thank you so much Bob and Jimmy for spending almost an hour. I know you both are extremely busy and your time is very valuable. So thank you for sharing it with us. Anyone watching this, we will send the recording to you via email.
Lauren Thunen: The email that you registered with. After this, if you have any additional questions, just reply to that email and we'll make sure that your questions get answered. We'll also include a link to the Institute's website if you're interested in how to stay in touch with Jimmy. And if you want to join one of the groups, get some more information, that'll all be included in the fall email.
Lauren Thunen: So stay on lookout for that. With that being said, thank you so much Bob and Jimmy, I'll follow up with you over email as well. And have a great rest of your day.
Bob Conant: Thanks, you too.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you. Thank you very much.
Lauren Thunen: Bye.

Friday Mar 28, 2025
112 - Great Leaders Don’t Just Manage—They Inspire! 🚀
Friday Mar 28, 2025
Friday Mar 28, 2025
112 - Great Leaders Don’t Just Manage—They Inspire! 🚀
February 20th, 2025 - 01:03:42
Show Summary:
In this impactful episode, Cecil Bullard of the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence shares powerful lessons on what it means to be a truly inspiring leader in the automotive industry. He breaks down how leadership is more than management… it’s about creating culture, communicating vision, and empowering teams. Through personal anecdotes and practical advice, Cecil outlines six core stages of leadership, including building trust, fostering connection, and showing genuine appreciation. With a focus on aligning actions with values, Cecil challenges shop owners to think deeply about the kind of business and culture they want to build. This is a must-listen for anyone looking to lead with purpose, clarity, and heart.
Host(s):
Amber Wright, AutoLeap
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder & CEO, The Institute
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:35] - Leadership is about creating a culture of excellence, and it starts with the owner.[00:04:40] - The best leaders focus less on words and more on behaviors and consistent action.[00:06:42] - Leadership is about inspiring others with your vision and turning team members into leaders.[00:13:35] - Your attention as a leader should be on helping others succeed, not just fixing daily problems.[00:17:32] - Inspiring teams requires sharing a meaningful vision, like building a “cathedral,” not just laying bricks.[00:20:12] - Core values like "do the right thing" and "always be learning" are central to great leadership.[00:25:08] - Empowerment happens when you allow your team to make decisions and learn from mistakes.[00:29:21] - Trust is built through consistency, confidence, and being aligned with your company’s values.[00:43:44] - Show genuine appreciation, listen actively, and surprise your team with thoughtful actions.[00:56:03] - Clear communication boosts morale, deepens trust, and makes people feel truly heard.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctYimcH_5FQ
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
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Amber Wright: Hello everybody. Just waiting just a second while we get on. Super excited to have you guys here. While we have Cecil joining us, I am going to first and foremost, I apologize we were a few minutes late. I had some technical difficulties with my Zoom webinar link where it was being used by a colleague for another call and unfortunately I didn't realize that you couldn't have two people on your Zoom links at the same time.
Amber Wright: So I need to apologize for a few minutes late and do a couple housekeeping notes. Hey, Cecil. Do a couple housekeeping notes while we get up and ready. We are recording this session right now and so the recording will be shared with everybody by tomorrow at the latest. So if there's for any reason you will have to drop we will share that with you.
Amber Wright: We do wanna make sure that we make this as engaging as possible. I love to see that everybody is already in the chat here messaging us and saying hello. So please make sure to ask your questions. In the chat I will pose them to Cecil. But really here today we are to talking about how to become an inspiring leader.
Amber Wright: I know it seems like a fluffy conversation, but it's a really important one. Especially as we just ended the summit. Cecil, you guys had a fantastic summit, but one of the things that was really discussed was creating culture of excellence. And one of the biggest takeaways was. That it needed to come from you as a leader, as the owner in the shop.
Amber Wright: And so excited to have a conversation about what a great leader is today and how it's not just about managing your shop and your employees. So, we're gonna talk about things about fostering trust, strengthening communication, and developing high performance teams. And for those of you just joining, before I hand it over to Cecil, I do again want to apologize for starting this a few minutes late.
Amber Wright: Had some technical difficulties where my zoom was being used by a colleague and couldn't start this on time. And I also see that Jimmy Lea is here and I wanna give a huge shout out and happy birthday to him as well. So let's definitely show him some love. So Cecil, hi.
Cecil Bullard: Howdy.
Amber Wright: Howdy.
Cecil Bullard: Wow. Good to be here.
Amber Wright: Thank you for being here. I appreciate it. And thank you for bearing with me. I know that is not ideal. So appreciate it.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah it's funny, you know, you think you've only done a thousand of these, so probably shouldn't be stressed at all. But I'm one of those guys that I'm like 10 minutes early, and if the plane's gonna be delayed, I'm gonna be stressed.
Cecil Bullard: So we'll see If I can't mellow out here.
Amber Wright: I, I am the same way. I am very poignant about time. It's really important. So I was on the back end stressing with you, so I do apologize about that. All right. Handing it over to you.
Cecil Bullard: I am I am as ready as I'm gonna be. So, welcome everyone. I'm Cecil Bullard with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence.
Cecil Bullard: We've been around for, I would say since 2011 and I've been coaching and consulting for a bit longer than that. I think I started my journey in 19 80 long time ago. So, we're gonna talk about leadership today, and I'm the kind of guy that when I'm teaching I don't mind having questions and I actually think the questions make it better.
Cecil Bullard: So if you have questions, please go ahead and ask 'em. Amber's gonna be paying attention to that. And let me know what the questions are. If you would like a workbook, and I'm gonna explain this class originally was probably an eight hour class that's been honed down to a four hour class that's now been honed down to a one hour webinar.
Cecil Bullard: And so the workbook that I decided to give you has a lot more material. It has the eight hour class material in it, and we're gonna cover the most salient pieces as we talk today. And if you'd like a copy of that workbook, you can go right here to this QR code and and go ahead and get it.
Cecil Bullard: Now. I'm gonna go ahead and get started and go. So, you know, leadership is, it's about creating culture. What's the culture within your company? Do you have a you know, do you have a culture of productivity? Do you have a team culture? Are we all on the same page? Do the people you know, respect us as leaders within our company?
Cecil Bullard: I think that. You don't have to like me necessarily, but you have to respect me if you are going to work with me within my company. And so I have to be respectable. But it helps if you're likable, frankly. I think when you talk about sales and management, and sales and leadership have a lot in common in sales.
Cecil Bullard: I, I, people need to like me, they can't dislike me. And as a leader in a way, I'm selling my ideas, my thoughts, my vision for my company, to all of the different employees staff team members, however you wanna call it. And at our summit week and a half ago, two weeks ago. One of the comments was made that the leader's job is to create other leaders.
Cecil Bullard: And I think in the last two weeks I've had a lot of conversations with shop owners. My clients are clients. We do coaching and consulting, 20 groups one-on-one stuff sales training, et cetera. I've just had so many conversations about guys that want their business to go faster, do more create more profit less fires, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And they I don't know that they completely and absolutely understand that a lot of that has to do with leadership. Are you leading and guiding people? So I'm gonna, I'm gonna rock and roll here and see if we can get as much as possible out in the next hour. Leaders it's about your actions and your behaviors.
Cecil Bullard: So, I was in a meeting yesterday with a guy that's got, I believe, 12 shops at this point in time. And they're really struggling because they have a good culture. But they're not, all of the people that are in the key positions have never necessarily run a shop before. And so they think that I can just put this if I have good people and have good culture, I can just say, go do this and it'll get done.
Cecil Bullard: And so during this particular conversation I had yesterday it was less than an hour long. I think he said, it's my fault I don't know, 12, 15 times. And finally I said. You know, stop talking about how it's your fault. It's fine to take to say it's my fault. Start solving the problem, right?
Cecil Bullard: Start. It's about your actions and your behaviors. It's not about what you say. And I think if you don't have if you're not doing the right things and setting the right example for your company, then you're not, they're not gonna follow you. They're not gonna lead you. And if you don't have a good vision, if you don't have something you can share that where they say, wow, I can get what I want.
Cecil Bullard: If I join in here and I give all my time, energy, life et cetera to this company, I can also get what I want. And so what are you doing where, you know, where are you? Are you talking about it all the time or are you doing, you know, 10% talking in 90% doing and I think. That a lot of people would maybe misinterpret this conversation right here to, well, oh, Cecil, so you're telling me I need to be writing up work orders and working with customers and I need to be handling fires and angry customers and I need to be fixing cars and all of that.
Cecil Bullard: And I would say absolutely not. My job as a leader of the company is not only to help create the vision and solidify the vision, but help everyone in the company to be successful and give them the tools that they need to achieve the vision. So, you know, if whether that's money, a CEO of the company, the financial security of the company is solely on my back as a leader in the company when we.
Cecil Bullard: Are starting to drift from our original vision. It's up to me to bring us back to our vision. When I bring somebody in the company that has strong will somebody with a great personality who can really drive the company forward, it's up to me to help them to use that energy in a very positive way.
Cecil Bullard: So what are you actually doing? You know? And if you're coming in to your business every day and all you do is complain about everything, that's not right. If all you do is come in and you know, pigeon management, you come in, you fly in your crap on everybody and then you leave that's not inspiring and that's not leadership.
Cecil Bullard: If all you're doing is putting out fires, I. In order to be a leader, you have to lead, which means you have to have time to think about things like culture and mission statement and vision, and what are the foundational principles that we wanna operate on as a business. So, what are you doing?
Cecil Bullard: And where are you paying your attention? Right? Don't get me wrong. So, I'm a, those people that know me would tell you wow, he's a pretty high strung guy and he's a bit neurotic. Neurotic to the point. We have a cooler here when we bring people here. We have, you know, Coke and Red Bull and, you know, all the stuff.
Cecil Bullard: And I like to have the cooler full all the time, and I like to have all the labels out. And then I don't wanna have any garbage on the counters. I don't, I, I don't want things that are kind of left. I. Unattended, stuff like that. And over time, you know, you work in a place and you walk in every day and you know, something gets left out or something gets left on the counter or maybe some of the cans aren't lined up.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, you could, I could come in every day and find something to be upset about and say, wait a minute. I told you guys I want blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I actually did that last night. I did it in a very, I thought, a very subtle way. I brought my manager in and I said, Hey, you know, let me walk you around the facility and let's talk about whether or not the facility really sends the message to our clients that we want that facility to do.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, we were able to point out six or eight things that weren't quite where they needed to be. And of course, I came in a little late this morning. I get to do that occasionally. And everything had been kind of cleaned up. All this stuff had been kind of put where it was supposed to be.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, it's kind of, it's kind of exciting. I didn't have to come in and scream and yell or I'm not spending a lot of time on that. So where are you paying your attention? Where are you spending your time? Are you spending your time and paying your attention on you know, helping people succeed, have the tools they need for their job learn how to make great decisions et cetera?
Cecil Bullard: Or are you spending your time with your head buried in a car, or buried at the front counter? I've got a guy that's running a pretty well run shop. I mean, the numbers are good. And he wants to be the manager of the shop. But really all he has time for is to write service and.
Cecil Bullard: Somehow you have to find time to lead and to inspire people. So, what do you reward and what do you punish? I think this is a place where Kent, my son, those of you again, that know the company ha has really helped me because I grew up in a family where my dad would come in and look and find whatever was not right and go off the deep end a little never really saying, wow, you guys have made a real effort here or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: It almost cost me my marriage in the early parts of my marriage. My wife and I just celebrated 42 years yesterday. But I think one of the things that Kent talks about is you reward people for their effort, right? I, I tried, I put the energy, I put the effort in, maybe it didn't quite get the result that I want, but even if we didn't get the result, now that gives me the opportunity to say, okay, that didn't get the result we want.
Cecil Bullard: And now what else can we do? How do we, you know, how do we change our behavior if what we're doing is not getting us the results we want? What do we do differently that we believe will get us where we want? And I think I think I'm a pretty good leader. We have a company that's growing fairly rapidly.
Cecil Bullard: I think we have a really good culture here. You know, I have my frustrations, but I. I think that, in part, I'm good at that because I'm constantly going through this. Okay what else could we do? Right? That didn't get us the result. I'm not beating people up. I'm saying, you know, wow, we put a lot of energy and effort into that.
Cecil Bullard: That's not gonna get us what we want. So now what do we do? Right? And guiding people to the right answers. And so what is the allocation of your attention and your resources? If all of that allocation is going into the let's get cars fixed and get money in the bank? I think you're in trouble because you never build the culture or spend time on the vision.
Cecil Bullard: Kent taught a class last night having to listen in, and I thought there was something that came out of it that very applicable here. Guy comes upon two brick layers and one of 'em is they're both sweating. They're both working really hard. One of 'em is really dour and unhappy and et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And the other one is just whistling away. You know, he's sweating just as hard as the other guy. He's laying just as many bricks, but he's happy as can be. And the guy asked the two brick layers you know, what are you doing? And the guy that's the sour guy says, well, I'm laying bricks.
Cecil Bullard: Can't you see that? And the other guy says I'm building a cathedral that will house God and where my community and my family can can come together. And so. Somebody in got that idea into the head of the one brick layer at least that we're building that cathedral.
Cecil Bullard: And the other brick layer is only laying bres. I would ask you, is your leadership strong enough that your team understands you're building a cathedral and you're not just laying brakes? And when you put all that together that creates your culture. So, we could talk mission statement. I don't have that in here.
Cecil Bullard: We could talk about vision. We could talk about foundational principles. There are other classes that have all of those things in there. But you need to have a clear vision and a statement about that. What's your cathedral? What do you, why? And if it's only about so I can put more money in the bank, I don't think that's inspiring.
Cecil Bullard: Also guys, all of you that are online if you have questions, please feel free to ask 'em. I am not paying attention to the chat, but I know that Amber's gonna do that for me. So, am I through my mission statement, the Institutes is a better business, better life, better industry. We have a huge belief that if we can help our shop owners run better businesses, that they, the people that work for them, the families of the people that work for them will have better lives.
Cecil Bullard: I. They'll create a better product for their clients who will also have better lives, and that will raise our industry up. We have a vision of being the most effective coaching and training company in this space and having the most influence on positive influence on the industry and our clients.
Cecil Bullard: And then we have core values. I always have one that I'm, I miss. Core values are make a difference. Core values are always be learning. So, we're always looking for something else that we can learn. Core values on ev everyone has to win. The client, the company the employees, everyone and the customers.
Cecil Bullard: Everyone has to win. Core values are have fun. It should be fun. And then core values are do the right thing. And so when you have a good solid mission vision and core values now you have people and you have people that can get behind that. Now you have leadership and now you have a machine that can build a cathedral.
Cecil Bullard: You don't have a bunch of people laying bricks. I love that. I heard that yesterday. So I want to talk about the six stages of leadership. Number one, vision. Do you have a clear vision? Have you discussed that vision with your team players with your team, with the essential management people in your company?
Cecil Bullard: And is it easy to share that vision? How well can you paint the picture of. The cathedral for your for everybody. And in fact, I would tell you that we even use this vision in our advertising for potential team players, for potential teammates, for you know, potential employees.
Cecil Bullard: Because if you just want to lay bricks, we're not the place for you. We're building the cathedral. And oh, always popping the wrong button. I think passion matters a ton. Passion is that thing that when you talk and I don't know, you get a little excited people look at that and they go, wow.
Cecil Bullard: He really believes in what he's talking about. I really think as a presenter trying to get my ideas across online, in a webinar or in a class or talking to my staff here one-on-one. If I lack passion for the ideas, if I lack passion for the vision, then nobody's gonna follow me.
Cecil Bullard: They're not coming. So, do you have passion and do you show that passion? And I'll agree that we don't all show passion in the same way. Mine is I get excited. I start talking loud. I you know, I get a little more talking with my hands. I et cetera. And I speed up.
Cecil Bullard: Et cetera. But if I didn't have that passion would you listen, right? Would you say, wow that's a guy that, you know, he wants blah, blah, blah, but he's not really or because of that passion can you see that what I'm talking about is something that I truly believe in. And then I would tell you a passion that people aren't willing to settle.
Cecil Bullard: We don't settle for second best. We never settle, frankly, which is a little frustrating probably to the team and team members. It's a little frustrating to me, but every day we look for something that we could do better. And if we do something and reach our achievement though, whatever that is we take a moment to go, wow, that was fantastic.
Cecil Bullard: And then all of a sudden we're like, okay, what's next? What's the next thing? Can you connect? Are you connecting with people? Do you hold yourself in a place where you cannot connect because you can't influence people that you cannot connect to? I, maybe it's an art, maybe it's a developed skill.
Cecil Bullard: But I think that leadership means you have to kind of be above it a little bit, but you also want to be able to connect to your people. You can't be above it so much that they can't see a path to you. And I think, you know, you should spend time getting to know. The people that you have on your team, you know, what do you have in common with them?
Cecil Bullard: How do you make a difference for them? Are you showing them that working on your team, working towards the goals of the company? The vision of the company is gonna make a difference, or again, are you just are you just setting bricks in the ground? I don't think people will engage and fully engage unless they believe that you care, that it matters that they're here.
Cecil Bullard: And I think also you have to be kind of careful sometimes because you'll keep an employee that doesn't fit the team because that employee does something for you that's beneficial, but in so many other ways is damaging to the team. Yesterday I was reading through, I don't know what it was, YouTube, Facebook, whatever, one of the, channels. And the guy was saying, well, I've got this technician and he's been with me from the start and he does 65 hours, but man, he is caustic to everybody. And I know what you're all gonna tell me, but what should I do? And so please don't tell me just to get rid of him because I really need that 65 hours.
Cecil Bullard: Well, I got news for you. That's someone that you probably need to get rid of because the rest of the team, if you keep that person in the rest of the team, is not gonna think that you really care about them and they need to. Stage four we gotta have trust. There has to be trust. I'm teaching some new material at vision for sales.
Cecil Bullard: And I think you know, I'm going back through the commonalities of you know, what are the objections that people have? And I would tell you that I. Almost every objection, if not every objection, is probably a trust objection. When someone says I'm not willing to spend my money with you.
Cecil Bullard: My belief is that they probably don't trust that what you're telling them is the solution and that the price is the fair price. So it's a trust thing. And so you have to spend time building trust. And building trust goes back to, you know, the beginning. Have we done the foundational things? Do we have the mission, the vision and the you know, foundational principles, but also are we living, those are, am I in line with what we talk about myself as a leader?
Cecil Bullard: And I don't think that you can get trust. I wrote an article, I don't know, it's probably 15, 20 years ago now. I. Because someone said to me, Hey, Cecil what do you think the employees owe the company? And and I turned it around and I said, well, what does the company owe the employees? And then for part of the article, I said, I.
Cecil Bullard: Now if the company does what the company should do, then the employees should grant their trust to the company. And I think that they at least owe the owner some respect for the work and the effort and the energy that the owner has put in. You know, working hard to create a place where they can make a living, working hard to create a place that is safe and comfortable and where their opinion matters.
Cecil Bullard: Things like that. So, you know, we earn trust. It's not just granted because I'm the, you know, 'cause I have all the gray hair and I know everything and I'm the guy that's the meanest and the biggest and the baddest. That, that never gets you the trust that you need to really lead and guide people.
Cecil Bullard: And I'll go to the next point under this you gotta say what you do and do what you say, and you can't. Those two things cannot vary. And you can't keep saying the same thing over, but not making a change like, oh, it's my fault, it's my fault, it's my fault. Well, let's go back and do the same thing we did in the last three weeks because what you're telling me is, okay, you're taking all the blame, but you're also, we're doing the same things.
Cecil Bullard: It's incongruous. It doesn't come together. It creates it creates stress, it creates disbelief. It creates the opposite of trust. So you need to be you need to do what you do, what you say and say what you do. And you need to be consistent in your thoughts and actions. I'm gonna break in here.
Cecil Bullard: We're not done with the six stages of leadership, but I'm gonna talk about four stages of building trust. Consistency. We've already talked about that. You must become consistent in your behavior and your attitudes. And by the way, you know, you can you can go cry behind closed doors. You can have a confident in the company that you meet with and discuss all the doubts that you have and all of that stuff.
Cecil Bullard: You can hire a coach or a consultant to, to have those conversations with you probably should but you can't do this in front of the team, you know, any inconsistency in you, any inconsistency in your belief, any weakness there? I. Is going to deteriorate trust. It's gonna be difficult for you and not be a positive thing.
Cecil Bullard: So I need my messaging and my direction to be online with what, you know, again, I don't wanna say, Hey, we're building this beautiful cathedral, and then when it comes time to decide, you know, are we gonna use marble? We gonna use mud? I'm not gonna have a beautiful cathedral with mud. It's, it doesn't match what I'm trying to, to my people.
Cecil Bullard: We talked about confidence a little bit. You, that excitement that you have, that confidence that you have in your team. I got a guy that if I said his name, almost everybody here would probably know who that guy is and, it really upsets me how negative he can be because he can take something very positive and find the one negative thing, and that's what he talks about.
Cecil Bullard: And then he struggles with his team because he can't figure out why he can't lead them to the promised land. They won't go with him to the promised land. You can't be negative. You have to be confident. Maslow has this thing. If you study psychology Maslow, and basically people will act like you treat them well.
Cecil Bullard: If you don't believe in yourself, if you don't believe in your company, if you don't believe in what you're doing. If you have doubts and those doubts come out, then it's not gonna build trust with the people that want to follow you. So, as your confidence increases, as you look more on the positive side, yeah, we're gonna have I don't think anybody would say I'm Pollyanna.
Cecil Bullard: I know that we're gonna have problems. I know that we're gonna fight things. I know that we're gonna have difficult times in the company. I'm not saying that we're never gonna have difficult times, but I do also know that my team can work through all of that and we will survive this thing and we will come out the other side and we will have a beautiful cathedral.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Trust is sacred. You need to be very careful with the trust that they give you because one, one mistake can destroy it very quickly. How do I inspire? Because leaders need to have some, they need to be a little inspirational. I inspire through my confidence, I inspire through my belief that we're moving in the right direction.
Cecil Bullard: I think I even inspire sometimes when I go, oh, whoa, oh, whoa, boy, we really blew it there. Let's get let's get lined back up and you know, hey, did we forget this principle? We gotta have fun. Or did we forget this principle? We need to be doing the right thing, the legal, moral, ethical thing. Or did we forget this principle of we have to have relevance?
Cecil Bullard: You know, and I think even sometimes when I'm going uhoh, I forgot one of those principles that can be inspirational to my team. If it's not, oh my gosh we're done forward. Oh, it's just terrible. Everything's terrible. You know, I always have this this saying when I'm talking about leadership, if the IRS was gonna come and lock my doors when do I want my employees to know that?
Cecil Bullard: Well, probably after the IRS came and locked the doors not before. So even though you have these stresses and things, don't use those don't let those things come across. Because you have to inspire. You have to guide, you have to be the one that can see the cathedral and know that the cathedral's gonna be built.
Cecil Bullard: I I find it fascinating. You know, I was in lake Cuomo is in a cathedral there that was built in the, I think the 11 hundreds or something, and it took 157 years or something more than two or three lifetimes to build. And somebody had the vision of that, and they shared it with these craftsmen who gave their lives to this thing, but never actually saw.
Cecil Bullard: The cathedral done. Finished, and, I think that is inspiring. Like somebody was able to share that vision so well with these people that they were willing to and able to give their lives up to this and and really make a difference empowering others. I, it can't be. People have to make some decisions and have some power to do some things in your company, kind of on their own without your looking over their shoulder, without whatever.
Cecil Bullard: And they're gonna make a mistake occasionally, which is okay. You have to allow for some mistakes to be made. I think that how you get people on the team, you get people moving forward. You get them involved in the vision of the cathedral that you're gonna build. And you get their input and sometimes you make an adjustment.
Cecil Bullard: Having a conversation with Kent last night a little about this and, you know, only hold the line where the line really matters. So, you know, in our logo you know, I always talk about this. Our logo is not the logo I picked. It's a logo that the team picked. And you know what? It doesn't really matter.
Cecil Bullard: We've got a great logo. It's come to be known very well known in our industry. And and other people on my team said, this is the one we want. This is the one we think will you know, get us where we want to be and represent our company better. And I was like, ah, it's not the one I want.
Cecil Bullard: And I think I really struggled over that for the few minutes that I struggled over it, and then I let it go. Don't fight. The simple stuff, the dumb stuff, the stupid stuff empower your people. And but you cannot just give them free reign. But remember, if you do have a mission and a vision and et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And they understand that, and they also have a vision of what you're doing now. You can empower people and you'll most likely have success in them moving in the right direction. I see. Amber, is there a question here?
Amber Wright: There is, yeah. There's a lot of good conversations going on. I have two questions, Cecil, if this is now a good time, but how do you work through a position where you are the leader but not the owner, but when the owner is in the building?
Amber Wright: There's a difference in energy paced and respect as where I don't get the same results from the team when the owner is gone. Jeff, I would love to know what your position is currently. I don't know if that makes a difference, but Cecil, that's where the question is.
Cecil Bullard: So, so the answer is yes. More than once.
Cecil Bullard: I work for a couple of very strong-willed people as a manager in a company, and I think it's very important that you, you set the terms of what you're willing to do and you're not willing to do. And so in the very beginning I made it very clear and in my contract for working there that that from this point forward, me coming in as a manager meant that, you know, you look at the chain of command and I'm in the chain of command in the middle between the owner and the employees, and therefore now I manage the employees and the owner doesn't.
Cecil Bullard: There were a few times that the owner and his wife kind of came in the middle there, and I had to pull them aside with all due respect and say, here's what's going on. It is not healthy for the business, and I had to make my case there. And by the way, if they wouldn't have seen it, if they wouldn't have.
Cecil Bullard: Come along. I would've left and been, went somewhere where I could be more successful. Now Jeff May be talking about something that's very caustic. He could be talking about something that's not as caustic and not as important, but for me I told the owner, I said you manage me. So if something's happening in your company, you don't like it, come to me.
Cecil Bullard: Right? And then I will deal with it with the employees. And I have another company, believe it or not. I just met with him yesterday, a couple of managers. The owner's a great guy. I love him to pieces, inspirational guy, et cetera. But he's so overpowering in his company that the managers are having a very difficult time managing.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, I think that's the point where they all three need to sit down and go. This isn't working the way that it, it is, what are the terms you need to create the terms? And I used to sit down with the owner and his wife once a week. And to tell you the truth, I prepared for those meetings. Wrote three page, five page things that said, here's where the company is, here's the issues that I believe we're dealing with.
Cecil Bullard: Here's the solutions that I have and this is how I'm moving forward. Not because I was asking permission necessarily, but because I wanted that owner to have as much information as possible, be very comfortable, because that meant that I had more freedom and more availability to do what I needed. Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: So, and I think anytime somebody's coming in and if it's, if there's a, they're getting in the middle and it becomes like I'm getting my knees cut out from under me. Because now you've made it impossible for me to be successful in my job. You and I are gonna be having a conversation in my office with the door shut, and it'll be a peaceful conversation.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause I know what I'm willing to do. I know what the goal is, et cetera. And so I know how tough that is 'cause I've been through it. But man if it continues to go on, you're not gonna get where you need to be. You're not gonna be as successful as you need to be unless the two of you can get in line.
Cecil Bullard: That's the first place we need to be in line. And so, I would work with the owner to get the owner in line with the vision. What kind of cathedral are we building? You know, how high is it gonna be? What's it gonna look like? You know, et cetera, et cetera. And if I can get that person, there's a whole nother thing about managing people and sales.
Cecil Bullard: If you can get that person, if you can change the conversation from, well, you're bad because you're not doing what I want to. Does this fit the. Company that we want to be, right? Oh no, that action doesn't fit the company. Okay, great. Then how do we change the action? Right? Because it doesn't fit the mission, the vision the core values.
Cecil Bullard: And it's not about, well, you're a bad person 'cause you're doing bad things. It changes the way you have that conversation. Okay, so hopefully I answered that one.
Amber Wright: Yeah, no, that was fantastic. One more and then we can get back to the regular program. What is the best way to get respect out of a tech that is about 12 years older than me?
Amber Wright: I am not sure if it's an age thing that he knows more technical stuff than I do or if it's something else. That's a good question, cliff.
Cecil Bullard: Well, I think, huh I started, when I started writing service, I was 23, 24 and I was working with Tex were in their forties and it was very hard to earn their respect.
Cecil Bullard: I. I think that I'm on your side is one of those things. How can I help you? What can I do for you? That, that makes your job easier? So when I'm writing service and I have older text, not anymore 'cause I'm the old guy in the room now but when that was happening in my life I need the if you remember in the beginning I kind of said you, you kind of need them to like you, right?
Cecil Bullard: I need to be likable. And so I need to be looking for opportunities to assist that person, help that person to achieve their goals. Because if I'm someone that is, is helpful to them and not an irritant to them, then I'm much more likely to gain their trust and their respect. So I'm on your side. I would I would make as a service advisor, I would, you know, I'd get an extra two tenths on a job and I'd go out and go, Hey, I got you a little extra time on that job.
Cecil Bullard: You know, I just let 'em know when I was able to do small things for them. Right. And I tried to do small things to get 'em on my side. And, you know, I've also had the place where I had to go sit somebody down and kind of say, here's the chain of command and here's where you are and here's where I am.
Cecil Bullard: And so this kind of behavior is not gonna be deemed positive. And we're not gonna move forward with this. And I want you on the team. I love what you do. I think you're a great person, but it has to be under these circumstances. Right. I think the more you clarify the circumstances without, I don't have to be a prick to do that necessarily, but I wanna make sure that we both understand, you know, that if we work together, then we can do some amazing things.
Cecil Bullard: If we don't work together, it's gonna be hard on both of us. Right. So that's what I would work on and try. Now back to your reg, regularly scheduled content. How do I create value for people? And I think this also probably may answer that question some amber and, you know, I understand what's important to them and and I'm trying to help them to achieve their targets and make their job as, as easy or as simple as it could be.
Cecil Bullard: So, and then also I believe being committed is thank you is fantastic. That when you have a vision and you have a mission and everyone knows what it is and you're not willing to let other things sideline that my commitment creates value for the people that are on the team.
Cecil Bullard: And what I'm willing to do for the team creates value for the people that are on the team. And I also go back to that consistency of thought and action. You have to continue to be consistent in thought and action. If I wanna be a good leader, I have to have influence. Influence is more about the fact that I know where we're going.
Cecil Bullard: I've shared that with you. You're on, you see it and you know that I care about it. And it's not me lording over the fact that I can fire you any minute. Because everybody knows I, you know, everybody knows I'm the guy that signs the check or, you know, everybody knows I'm the guy that can fire you.
Cecil Bullard: If you're going there, then you're not influencing. That's that's a different kind of pressure. And it's not a long-term solution or it's not long term. Whatever you get there that it, it won't be long term. So influence is kind of san's authority. It's without it I need to be able to influence because of my commitment, because of my personality, because of my unwavering.
Cecil Bullard: A belief in the fact that we're gonna win the game and that I'm gonna help you win that game and be by your side and make sure, and then also I think, don't misinterpret that I, I have a saying I will do anything for my people except. Their job. So it's up to me to help them understand what their job is.
Cecil Bullard: It's up to me to help them understand what the goals and the vision are and to help them buy into that. It's up to me to help them determine a plan or you know, are their actions actually achieving the goal or not. And then it's up to me in a way to help them determine if they cha what actions they might have to change to be able to hit the targets or the goals that they want.
Cecil Bullard: And if I can do those things with people, then I have influence, I think, in the industry. I've worked very hard for a very long time. You know, we just lost one of the greatest coaches and consultants, a guy that I started with, you know, 40 some years ago. And I think that I may have some influence in the industry because people that know me know that I really care about the industry and I care about, you know, almost everybody in the industry.
Cecil Bullard: I, I care that the owners are profitable and I care that the managers can manage. And I care that the customers get a great job. And I care that the employees get what they need. And I work very hard every day to try to create that vision, build that particular cathedral. And if you can do that and people believe it, not everybody believes it.
Cecil Bullard: I know there's three or four people that don't like me. I think you have to disregard that. Obviously you can't have those people on your team, but, not everybody's gonna love you. Not everybody's gonna allow you to influence them. And by the way, those are people who I probably wouldn't long term have on my team.
Cecil Bullard: How do I show people? I care. I'm gonna try to go fast. We started about seven minutes late. I'm gonna try not to go more than 10 minutes over. I love this thing with shy LaBuff. Don't say it, do it. Stop talking about it. Get it done, whatever it is. Don't say, oh my gosh, I know I'm a poor leader and it's my fault.
Cecil Bullard: You might say that once to let people know that you understand. But now what are you gonna do? Go do something that makes a difference. Stop talking about it and go do something. Quit doing the same things if they're not getting you what you want and do something different. Only fight for what's important.
Cecil Bullard: Stop fighting on everything. I'm not saying you give up the clean shop or you give up the well lit shot, or you give up the, you know, I was in the bathroom the other day and there was no toilet paper and usually there's like 23 rolls and I'm like, oh my God, how can that even happen? And now I'm ready to come out and yell at everybody because somebody left the bathroom without toilet paper.
Cecil Bullard: Well, slow down, Cecil. Take a deep breath. Go get some toilet paper, you know? And maybe in a company, our next company meeting have a discussion about how we take care of the facility instead of who the heck left the toilet paper. Fight for what's important. Fight in smart ways. Don't fight for the sake of fighting.
Cecil Bullard: And I think some of us have gotten in the habit of fighting just to fight, learn to apologize. My, my father was great at that when he did something wrong, when he made a bad choice, when he made a bad decision, he was the first guy to say. I'm sorry, I shouldn't have done that. My mother never did that.
Cecil Bullard: When you're wrong, apologize. It doesn't have to be you know, you don't have to beat yourself to death. You don't have to flagellate yourself. You don't have to tie yourself up in the village square and get whipped. Just say, I'm sorry. We're going to do some things occasionally lose our temper.
Cecil Bullard: I've done it with my son a couple times. I had to go in and say, I'm sorry, I'll, I will not do that again. And then when I did it again, I had to say, I'm sorry again, and I won't do it again. And you know what? I only did it like three times before I figured out that's not gonna get me where I need to go.
Cecil Bullard: And then I stopped and I don't know, for the last three years, we haven't had one of those. Because I changed my behavior. Do something uninspected for your people. Not because they hit the great target, not because, not because it's Valentine's Day or it's their birthday or something.
Cecil Bullard: Just figure out what they like and do something for them. Based on that. I, you know, don't just buy sandwiches for the team, buy the sandwiches that they would choose because you paid attention to what they like and what they don't like. You know, I, I always say this my wife you know, occasionally I just get flowers.
Cecil Bullard: I, I send 'em to her. She's like, what are they for? Because it's not our anniversary. It's not her birthday. It's not any special. It's not Mother's Day. It's because I care about you because I knew that these would brighten your day. So do something unexpected for your people. Share your thoughts and ideas.
Cecil Bullard: Not all the time, you can't always be talking about this idea or this thought that you never move towards, but if you're moving towards these ideas and thoughts share them with your staff and let them be a part of it. Let them be involved in, you know, creating the cathedral that you're gonna build because they're gonna, that's gonna mean you care.
Cecil Bullard: And then learn how to show genuine appreciation. I don't know that I've even completely learned this one sometimes I'm like ah but what's genuine? I really do care about my staff. When they have struggles, I. It bothers me, not just company struggles, even personal struggles. And I take some time routinely to go talk to them in their office.
Cecil Bullard: Not about something they did or didn't do right. But just how's it going and what's up and what's going on in your life and, you know, how can we help you? That's genuine appreciation. I'm gonna just skip through this one very quickly. I think we should always have our staff if we're leaders in our company.
Cecil Bullard: In front of us. And if I'm in the chain of command, I have people that are below me in that chain of command. There, there are people that I serve. I should always know what's going on with them. And I should always be saying to myself, how can I help them? What can I do to help them have a better time here to help their job be easier?
Cecil Bullard: What education, what training what what support can I give them that would help them be more successful? I would also tell you have a clear idea of when and why you might terminate somebody. And if you do that before you get to know people, then that helps not blur the line where people keep stepping over the line.
Cecil Bullard: I would tell you to do that in the beginning. I'm gonna go through this really quickly. I, all I want you to understand is that communication is gonna be your biggest issue, and clear communication is gonna be your biggest issue. And the clear your communication, the more you're gonna get done, the more people are gonna understand the easier it is for you to lead.
Cecil Bullard: So, we should always be working on communication because everybody wants to be heard, hear people. Biggest mistake service advisors make salespeople is not listening to the client or potential client. The biggest mistake owners and managers is not listening to their team. You know, we need to hear people and really listen.
Cecil Bullard: So you have to take time. To spend with them. You can't listen to them if you're rushed or if you're thinking about something else, or if you're talking. So, I'm a talker. Everyone knows me, knows I'm a talker. You gotta be quiet sometimes. You gotta remove all the distractions. No, no cell phones, no email, no newspapers, no other thoughts in your head.
Cecil Bullard: For those of you that are a DHD like me, a little difficult. But you gotta do it. You gotta give people your undivided attention. You gotta look at their body language. You gotta maintain eye contact. What's going on with these people? What's happening? You gotta put yourself in their shoes wherever possible.
Cecil Bullard: If you can't do that, do it anyway. You can't know me unless you've been in my shoes. And if you know me and I respect you for that, then I'm much more likely to follow where you lead. For those of you that are like me, that are 12 thoughts in your head at a time and you're rush, and I got too many things to do, slow down.
Cecil Bullard: Take a deep breath. Do not hurry them. Don't answer their, don't finish their answers. Don't let their habits or mannerisms annoy you. Really listen to their tone, their volume. I think we get good sometimes with people that have been in our lives a long time, and we need to take those skills and move them out.
Cecil Bullard: It's one of my favorite slides. Look for nonverbal communication, little happy stewy a little stewie that's disappointed with me. And then my favorite little stewie. What do they, what's their body language telling me? Their nonverbal communication. Learn to repeat their words back to them. What I seem to hear is this what you told me?
Cecil Bullard: From what you've told me, it seems like this is the issue. This is the way I understand it. Did I get it correctly? Create these phrases, these arrows, these things that you put in your vocabulary that you use routinely to make sure that you haven't jumped the gun and that you're really hearing what they're telling you.
Cecil Bullard: Listening is an art. It takes effort. Make the effort. Stephen Covey says, seek first to understand, then to be understood. That's that's what I, that's what I want to be, right? If I can create the vision, if I can create the mission, if I have people that understand the values that we want to live by here and what we want to accomplish, if I can paint the cathedral for them in their mind and get them involved in that.
Cecil Bullard: Then I can have people that are inspired that, and I can inspire people. If I can stay driven. If I can stay focused, if I can stay up and not be negative then I'm gonna have people that can be inspired. Improve your communication. Ask people, did I understand you right? Did I get it? Or not?
Cecil Bullard: And if you didn't, go back to the drawing board. Use gestures yourself. Ask key questions. Here's some of them, they're in your workbook. Here's why. Improving communication better communication will improve. Morale and self-esteem means that you'll have happier people, more sure of themselves.
Cecil Bullard: Better morale in your company are gonna keep people longer. People who feel heard are happier. They feel appreciated. They'll work harder and they'll buy more from you. It's a long-term solution. Stay away from victim behaviors. We're at the point. We got a couple of minutes. You're okay.
Cecil Bullard: You're good. I don't wanna rush through. Stay away from victim behaviors. Here's victim behaviors. Blame, get rid of blame in your company. One of the things, one of the many things that camp my son has taught me is this right here stop focusing on what's not right, and then how do we solve the problem moving forward?
Cecil Bullard: What will we do? That's the saying that I want to have as a company moving forward from here on out, what are we gonna do differently? We will get rid of blame as much as possible. And if you have to place blame occasionally, you might do it very carefully and do it very privately.
Cecil Bullard: All right I'm gonna open it up for a few more questions and all of this other material is in your thing and we can do another webinar and get into it deeper and answer a lot of other questions down the road. What questions do we have in the next two minutes?
Amber Wright: No questions right now that we haven't answered.
Amber Wright: Let me, okay, here we go. What do you do when you have a negative partner? They have 40% share, but he is the one with the experience in the industry.
Cecil Bullard: I think that people believe that I need to understand how to fix a car to have cars fixed in my business I don't need that. I think people believe that they need to know everything about the business or about the industry.
Cecil Bullard: I'm not sure that's true. Don't get me wrong. You know, I was a technician who became a service advisor who became an owner. Having all that experience was, I believe, a plus, but it's also a negative in some ways. I will go back to what do you do when you have an owner that you're the manager and they come in and all of a sudden the whole tenor of the shop is different?
Cecil Bullard: You need to sit 'em down and have a, an honest conversation about do they want to be successful or not, and if they want to be successful, then here's the support that I need. Here's what I believe we need to do, and get agreements from them. Because once you have agreements with people, now you can manage that.
Cecil Bullard: You have no agree. You let them keep doing the same behavior. It's gonna keep doing what it's gonna do. And if it's not getting what you want it doesn't matter. There are lots of coaches and consultants not necessarily me or my company, that can help you understand what you need as far as the company.
Cecil Bullard: I don't know that I need to have anyone who's gonna be negative or take us off track. I wouldn't be building a cathedral, have somebody come in and tear things down and then not say anything, not go, Hey, wait a minute, you can't do that. Because it's not just demotivating for me, but it's also demotivating for everyone else that's building the cathedral.
Amber Wright: Yeah. Yeah. Your employees definitely pick up on that. It goes back to the body language and the cues. All of that, which is a fantastic book on reading body language and knowing. Yeah. I don't, it's up there. An orange book. I think it's a fantastic book, but it's super important. I wanna go back just making sure we don't have any questions, but you made a point about know what to fight for.
Amber Wright: Yeah. And I think it's so important to know when to give your energy and allow situations to have power over you or your vision, right? Yeah. And it's really important to know and lead as a leader in that way. Because again, your employees do pick up on those things that you're giving energy to in your business that may not need it.
Amber Wright: Right. You create these small fires.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And if you if you don't do that, then it will suck the life out of you in other places where you really need that life to, you know, hold the line and to be excited about. You gotta be careful where you put your energy. Kind of goes back to that very first graphic where it's like, where do I spend my time?
Cecil Bullard: If I'm spending my time in areas that aren't getting me what I want and you know, that's might be putting out fires or arguing about stuff that's really not important then I can't spend that time somewhere that's gonna, you know, really take us forward.
Amber Wright: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. And it sounds like even going back to Jeff's comment about the owner coming in, right?
Amber Wright: It sounds like that's where the energy needs to be spent for you. But overall, just a lot of Thank you, Cecil. Appreciate it. There was a question about getting access to the workbook, if it'll be emailed to us. It is right here if you scan the QR code.
Cecil Bullard: You can go in there. We get your name and your phone number and your email, and then we send you in the email and you'll have the whole workbook.
Amber Wright: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Amber Wright: Well, I just wanna, again, thank everybody. I know we're a few minutes over and that is completely on, on me, not Cecil. And the institute being timely is very important. So really appreciate everybody's time here. And Cecil, as always, we really appreciate your expertise and everything that you and the entire institute coaches are doing for the industry.
Amber Wright: You really do what you say you're going to do, and it is something that is continuously wonderful to watch and be a partner of you guys. Knowing you over the last few years has been nothing short of a blessing. And again, Jimmy Lea, if you're on here, happy birthday. Have a wonderful afternoon.
Cecil Bullard: Thank you everyone. Thanks for the opportunity, Amber.
Amber Wright: Awesome. All right, bye.
Cecil Bullard: Bye. Bye.

Friday Mar 28, 2025
Friday Mar 28, 2025
111 - Never Miss a Call Again - How The Hive Automotive Repair Uses AI to Capture Every Opportunity
February 19th, 2025 - 00:47:52
Show Summary:
In this engaging episode, Jimmy Lea interviews Rob Borden, owner of The Hive Auto Repair in Moscow, Idaho. Rob shares his unique journey from civil engineering student to taxi company owner, and eventually, to successful auto shop operator. He discusses how entrepreneurial grit, strategic decisions, and excellent customer service helped grow his shop to over $2 million in annual revenue. The conversation also dives into how Rob implemented an AI-powered voice system to capture missed calls and increase appointments. This episode is filled with laughs, great stories (including a pet deer named Jorge), and actionable business insights for shop owners.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
Rob Borden, Auto Repair at the Hive
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:43] - Rob introduces his Great Dane puppy, Coco Chanel, and reminisces about a pet deer named Jorge.
[00:04:36] - Rob explains how a fraternity conversation shifted his path from civil engineering to entrepreneurship.
[00:05:56] - Rob and his business partner start a taxi company to solve a local transportation problem.
[00:08:15] - A tire machine purchase turns into acquiring a full-service tire shop.
[00:10:08] - Rob opens his own shop after a business split and grows it to a nine-bay facility.
[00:13:11] - Rob buys a neighboring car wash for extra parking and considers its long-term use.
[00:16:03] - Rob shares his $3M revenue goal and how he differentiates by being the most expensive shop with unmatched value.
[00:19:09] - Rob discusses implementing Voice Controller AI to capture missed calls and book weekend appointments.
[00:31:00] - Rob reveals how AI helped capture $3,000 in revenue in one week from missed or after-hours calls.
[00:41:25] - Rob shares his wish to elevate the perception of automotive professionals as industry experts.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
Links & Resources:
Want to learn more? Click Here
Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here
See The Institute's events list: Click Here
Want access to our online classes? Click Here
________________________________________
Jimmy Lea: Good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight, depending on when and where you're joining us from. Today or tonight or where in the world. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited that we are here to have this discussion. Good to see you, my friends. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute. Our discussion today is going to be epic.
Jimmy Lea: It's one that you definitely do not wanna miss. It is going to blow your mind. This is some pretty dang cool stuff on the horizon. And, they talk about the future is here. Well, the future is here. It's pretty dang cool. My guest today is Rob Borden. He is the shop owner of the Beehive beehive.
Jimmy Lea: I apologize. It's the Hive Auto Repair in Moscow, Idaho. Rob, thank you for joining us. How you doing, brother? Good. Thanks for having me. Oh, good. And you know when Rob's not out saving the world one car at a time, he does spend a lot of time with his Great Dane puppy. What's your puppy's name?
Rob Borden: Coco Chanel.My wife named him. Named her.
Jimmy Lea: Named her. Coco Chanel. Coco Chanel. All right. So how old is she and how big is she?
Rob Borden: She's a year old and 110 pounds, and she should be another 10 or 15 pounds. What time? She's full grown, so she's 110 pounds. We just had her at the vet the other night actually.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. She's a big puppy. Does she still think she's a lap dog?
Rob Borden: She is a lab dog. She doesn't think she is. She is.
Jimmy Lea: She is a lab dog. Oh my gosh. Kyle says, that's not a dog. That's a horse.
Rob Borden: It is. Yep. We had a pet deer once upon a time out at our property, and and I swear this dog looks just like the pet deer that we had.
Jimmy Lea: You had a pet deer, like serious.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Borden: Serious. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: How do you have a pet deer?
Rob Borden: Yeah, the long and short of it is is we have some property and we came across this little tiny fawn that was brand new. And so we're driving down the road right in front of our property and we see that the mom has been hit and is in a ditch and dead.
Rob Borden: And so the little fawn is right next to it. So we took the fawn in and then we bottle fed it, and we brought it in our house. I don't know if there's rules against that or whatever, but we totally had a pet deer and we fed it and all the things and anyway, it, it kept getting into the neighbor's garden and they were mad about it.
Rob Borden: And then it was eating the neighbor's cow feed. And so then all of a sudden one day the deer was just gone. And my guess is that the neighbor took care of it. So, I don't know. We had it for almost two years. It was a ton of fun.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I let's see, what was it? My parents used to tell us that that the dogs or the pets had gone to a better home.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Just happens. It happens. Wow. Was and I have so many questions about this deer. Was the deer house broke
Rob Borden: no.
Jimmy Lea: Oh no, you're kidding.
Rob Borden: No. We only had it in the house for like a couple nights and then we made a little place for it in the garage, and then it got big enough that we put it outside.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I agree. Everybody's saying we need pictures, ASAP.
Rob Borden: So yeah. I don't know if I can find 'em fast enough, but Yep.
Jimmy Lea: After we're done, we've gotta post them in the show notes or something. We
Jimmy Lea: had a pet deer. Alright. What was
Jimmy Lea: the pet deer's name?
Rob Borden: We called it Jorge. The way we got to that was my wife used to chase deer when she was a kid and she always wanted to catch Jorge.
Rob Borden: So then now we had the deer.
Jimmy Lea: Jorge.
Rob Borden: Jorge. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: And Jorge, was Jorge a buck or a fawn?
Rob Borden: No, it was a fawn. Oh. But we didn't know. That's okay. So to be fair, when we first got it right, I mean, it's so tiny and small and we didn't wanna just, you know, look and
Jimmy Lea: Right, right. Eventually you do, but you're being modest.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Eventually you figure it out. But,
Jimmy Lea: well, and my sister and her husband, they have a female cat named Henry, so I understand. It's okay. Sure. Not no judgment here.
Rob Borden: House guests, they can be named anything.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Especially if you're feeding them. Yeah, exactly. So, I have so many questions for you, but before we get into talking about voice controller, and this webinar today is co-sponsored by voice controller.
Jimmy Lea: I wanna know a little bit more about you, Rob. How did you get into the business? What was that point of you discovering? Oh, I'm working the auto repair business now.
Rob Borden: Sure. I came to it different than I think a lot of shop owners do. I went to school, I was in a fraternity house. I had a fraternity brother that I was gonna school to be a civil engineer and I had a fraternity brother that said, Hey, what are you gonna do as an engineer?
Rob Borden: So I was telling him, and he is like, do you know how much money Elon Musk makes? Do you know how much money you know Jeff Bezos makes? Do you know what they do? They all own businesses. So he was a business major, right? So he convinced me that it was, I should shift my focus to business. I did finish, I actually have a master's in civil engineering.
Rob Borden: Wow. But after I graduated, I was still in town. I liked hanging out. And so we were trying to figure out what to do with life and he said, where there's a problem to be solved. There's money to be made.
Jimmy Lea: True story. Nice. I like it.
Rob Borden: And so, we were having a couple drinks and we wanted to go to downtown to go have a few more.
Rob Borden: And and so we got on the phone and we tried getting ahold of a taxi 'cause we were being responsible young adults and we wanted to, you know, get a ride. This is before Uber days, so it's hard to remember.
Jimmy Lea: You're dating yourself now.
Rob Borden: It is hard to remember that it's not that long ago. I mean, really like 10 years.
Jimmy Lea: It's really not ago.
Rob Borden: Uber didn't exist, so, so anyway, so we were trying to figure that out and and there was no taxi companies in town and we said, oh, well perfect. There's the problem to be solved. So we started a taxi cab company. Oh my gosh. So we ended up with a fleet of almost 10 of them.
Jimmy Lea: And where were you?
Jimmy Lea: Where was this?
Rob Borden: Yeah. So this is still in Pullman, Washington, Moscow, Idaho. We're on the border two college towns.
Jimmy Lea: Which colleges?
Rob Borden: So, Washington State University and University of Idaho.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, and what fraternity?
Rob Borden: Phi Gamma Delta. Also known as Fiji.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. I did not know that one. I'm a Sigma Kai.
Rob Borden: Ah, nice.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Very nice. Okay, continue on. You now have 10 cars in the fleet and you have a taxi company, you and your buddy responsible adults.
Rob Borden: Yep. And and I had learned, my dad worked on cars, not in a professional capacity, but you know, in the driveway. And and I said.
Jimmy Lea: So is he your head mechanic?
Rob Borden: No, he lived too far away. But but I always knew I didn't want to do that. I said, I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna fix cars. That's not what I'm gonna do. I, and I like he always did, and he always kind of wanted to be a mechanic. And so he was a driveway mechanic, right. But he had a. A real job.
Rob Borden: Right. He was a sales professional in a totally different industry, but oh yeah, on the weekends he worked on the cars in the driveway. He loved doing that. And so, and I said, I'm not doing that. Did a remodel frame up restoration on a 86 Jeep with him as a project, as a kid through high school.
Rob Borden: So I had some
Jimmy Lea: And that cured you.
Rob Borden: So Yeah. So I had lots of experience from a young age and anyway, so. Both my business partner and I both had some automotive experience in fixing cars. Not that we like doing it, so we were fixing these 10 cars. Well, 10, 10 used cars. I'll tell you, they, they need a lot of maintenance.
Rob Borden: So the thing they needed most was tires. And so we ended up and we didn't, we got tired of buying those from the tire shop. So we bought a tire machine. Okay. And we went to go buy a tire machine. And when we were talking to the local distributor, he said, I actually know of a tire shop that's for sale.
Rob Borden: And so instead of just buying the tire machines, just go buy the whole shop. And so we bought the shop.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. 'cause that's a great idea.
Rob Borden: It seemed like it. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: So, okay, keep going.
Rob Borden: So that's how I got, that's how I got into the shop ownership game. Eventually the partnership fell apart as a lot of partnerships sometimes struggle.
Rob Borden: Sure. I learned a lot. We learned a lot. It was he is a good friend of mine. We still talk sometimes today.
Jimmy Lea: Still friends.
Rob Borden: We can be.
Jimmy Lea: That's good. That's important.
Rob Borden: Cordial. Yeah. Still cordial. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Rob Borden: We sometimes share employees actually 'cause he's, I mean, not like share, but you know, they'll leave me and then they'll go to him or they'll leave him and they'll come to me.
Rob Borden: Sure. So, I mean, we're only eight. Our two shops are only eight miles apart. I. So the other day he called me like, Hey, this you know, past employee of yours just applied for me. What do you think? And so it, it's nice to have somebody that you can bounce those things off of back and forth.
Rob Borden: So, nice.
Rob Borden: And maybe one day you might decide to buy him or maybe he decides to buy you.
Rob Borden: We've had that conversation. So
Rob Borden: yeah. One day.
Jimmy Lea: So the picture behind you, is that the tire shop?
Rob Borden: No, this is the, so. After we split ways, the way that split happened, I took the taxi cab company. Oh. And he kept the other auto shop.
Rob Borden: Okay. So I had the taxi cab company, I had it for about three months without owning a shop. And I said, oh, the whole reason we bought the shop was because the taxis need so much maintenance. So I opened another shop, I found a building, rented it, and here we are.
Jimmy Lea: That's the building that's behind you. Four bays,
Rob Borden: Nine actually.
Rob Borden: So they, you enter in from the back, so they're doubled up. Okay. So there's another base set of doors on the backside plus an extra door. So nine Bay. Got it. Nine Bay facility.
Jimmy Lea: Nine Bay facility. So how long ago was it this taxi scenario versus now you're in renting and you have your own facility?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so we've been here in this building since 2018, so seven years. So it's been a while. Oh.
Jimmy Lea: Dude, I was thinking 2018. Oh yeah, this is like a couple years ago.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Time flies.
Rob Borden: Yeah. See Uber was only 10, 12 years ago.
Jimmy Lea: YY yeah. Okay. So do you still have the taxi company or is that done?
Rob Borden: So sold it a year ago to.
Rob Borden: There was a new competitor that launched and like shortly after we did, so remember there was no taxis in our town. Yep. We launched this big company. We make it fun and cool to take taxis. We didn't continue to grow because we bought this other shop, so we were focused on the shop and we didn't just keep adding cars.
Rob Borden: Right. So it allowed room for another company to start. So that other company started and they did, they're doing a good job. Good job. And so we, when we were getting ready to, we were realizing the shop was just making so much more money than the cab company was. For our time. You were happy, the amount of time.
Jimmy Lea: You were happy part ways.
Rob Borden: Yeah. The time versus money scenario made more sense to focus on the shop. So, my wife and I were talking about it. We decided to let somebody else do the taxi thing and we evaluated a couple different suitors people that, you know, trying to buy it out. And we ended up going with the compe our com.
Rob Borden: We gave it to our competitor. So now they have a cute little monopoly in the town. And it, I think it made the most sense.
Rob Borden: You, you said for all parties.
Jimmy Lea: Gave you, gave it to them.
Rob Borden: No.
Jimmy Lea: So you sold it?
Rob Borden: We did sell it, yeah. Okay. So in, in selling it, we had multiple people who were interested in buying it.
Jimmy Lea: Got it.
Rob Borden: And we made the decision to sell it to our competitor, even though technically their bid was a little less, but I knew that they would have a higher chance of success.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. For sure. That's super awesome. And congratulations and for doing that. That's a good way to go out. So, you've sold the Cab company.
Jimmy Lea: 20 18, 7 years ago, right?
Rob Borden: Nope. Sold the cab company last year.
Jimmy Lea: Last year, yep. And so now you're focusing a hundred percent on the auto repair. And w So now what?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so we've dabbled in a handful of different things, kind of serial entrepreneur trying really hard. This year my wife and I, we decided we just need to focus on this business.
Rob Borden: We've done a number of other things that we don't need to go into today, but trying to start other various business ventures and make things happen. Yeah, including a car wash that we just bought. I mean, so we're doing lots of things but we're trying to focus, there's a lot of potential still that the shop has to offer.
Rob Borden: We did 2.2 million last year. When you look at congratulations. That's awesome. Thanks. When you look at what the shop could do I think that there's a lot of upward movement and probably more so than what I could get out of another venture, just tweaking of a few small things. I could get a lot more out of this venture than trying to go do a whole new something different.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so why buy a car wash?
Rob Borden: So as you can see in the picture behind me, there's only there's only room for a handful of cars. Yeah. So our this, you're looking at the entire parking lot. I'm taking the picture from the street, so it's very Well you got like eight spaces. Yeah. So in total on property, 'cause there's a few behind the building as well.
Rob Borden: We have room for about 15 cars. So you need a car wash for the parking. That's what it was for. So, it's, you could literally throw a football behind the building and hit it on the backside of it that way.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Rob Borden: Anyway, there's a car wash back that way. It went up for sale and I knew that if they were to tear the building down and turn it into apartments or something, I would lose the parking of the street that we used too. So,
Rob Borden: And then there's a big grassy space that we're gonna pave over there. So, I mean, that's kind of a bummer, but it'll then give us a bunch more parking stalls.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Good for you.
Rob Borden: It was kind of been a necessity.
Rob Borden: Yeah. You needed it for the parking space, not necessarily the car wash. So will you keep the car wash or will you flatten it?
Rob Borden: Yeah, I've kind of gone back and forth. We'll see if it's profitable. Okay. For anyone listening? Car wash. The car wash industry, at least so far, my experience three months in has not been as profitable as I would've guessed. So it might get flattened. We'll see.
Jimmy Lea: Interesting. Interesting.
Rob Borden: Yeah. I always thought laundromats and car washes were like just. Little quarter gold machines, but this one doesn't seem to be doing that.
Jimmy Lea: And the car wash that when I was in college, there was a car wash, laundromat. Pet wash. Altogether. And he did quite well, but he was the only one.
Rob Borden: Yeah. We do have three other car washes in town, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, interesting.
Rob Borden: Well, Kyle says, keep it value your clients. Do a quick wash after every repair. Yep. Do you do that?
Jimmy Lea: It's not something that we do yet. We're still trying to get the, it's everything over. There's currently on quarters, so we're trying to, we have credit card machines that are going in. Those credit card machines will then have a, an employee pass, and then we'll run our cars through it after we're done.
Jimmy Lea: So we will do that as a value add, but right now my employees would have to go over there and then put quarters in the machine to try and make the machine wash. So that just doesn't work.
Rob Borden: No, I hear you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: Which I think is maybe why it's not getting a lot of business. 'cause who has quarters?
Jimmy Lea: I don't. No, me neither. No, not at all. Not at all. In fact, we went on a trip on a cruise. We figured after we were done, we're gonna hit a hotel and go do some Disneyland. So we brought a bag full of quarters. 'cause we figured we'll hit the laundromat credit card. Yeah, you don't need quarters anymore. So I think you're onto something there.
Jimmy Lea: Hopefully you, you keep that and it works well for you. So what does the, what's the next steps? What's the future look like for you?
Rob Borden: Yeah. Our goal this year is to do 3 million. Wow. Which is a pretty big jump from the two two, but we did one eight the year before. So I don't know. We've found that we just need to keep putting another person in another bay and keep making more and more people happy and keep sending out the advertisements and people just keep knocking down our door and, for what it's worth, we are the most expensive shop in town by the dollar. Like the amount of actual money it costs to have a break job done. Yeah. We are the most expensive shop. Yep. We do all makes, all models. Cool. But the, our differentiating proposition, if you will, is that we offer amazing customer service three year, 36,000 mile nationwide warranty.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Rob Borden: Three loaner cars. By the time you start stacking up all that value master certified technicians, everybody in the building except for one guy who's currently working on it. So we have four master certified techs, a fifth person who's working on it. So we offer a ton of value. So, dollar per value. I think we probably offer more value than anybody else in town and we justify the price.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Congratulations. That's awesome. So I've always said that the positivity becomes a magnet and you just attract the right people. You have the right technicians in the bays, you have the right front counter.
Jimmy Lea: They're taking care of the people. The people. People want that. They want that. Yes. More than they want The inexpensive repair.
Rob Borden: Yeah. They want that perfect experience. That just goes well.
Jimmy Lea: I love that. Congratulations, Rob. That's awesome. So dollar amount wise, are you also more expensive than the dealerships too?
Rob Borden: Yeah.
Rob Borden: Yeah. That's.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Rob Borden: That was kind of, that was actually kind of tough, to be honest. That's a tough barrier to when a customer comes in and says, Hey, I was just at the dealer and they quoted this and you have it at this. How do you justify that? And I'm like, well, when you were at the dealer, did you ask for a loaner car?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: When you look at the bottom of their estimate, what's their warranty?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: I'm not sure that they're offering a better service.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: So oftentimes what we'll do in that moment, in full transparency is we'll just match the price. Right. But we do have a conversation about the added value that they get. And the reality is that's why they came back to us.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: Because, 'cause if it truly was just about price and they didn't see the value, they would've just settled for the cheaper brake job at the dealer.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And if you don't want the loaner, okay, we can match the pricing, but if you're gonna need a loaner, this is what it's gonna be.
Rob Borden: Yeah. And we sometimes have those negotiations. Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Borden: You just, you just, it's always on the up and up. Always smiles. I love it. Always having a good time. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Congratulations. That's super awesome. So, let's talk about the the phones. Phones ringing. Yeah. Sounds like your shop is very busy.
Rob Borden: Very busy.
Jimmy Lea: And you've implemented a program in your shop with ai, with voice controller. Tell me a little bit about this. Why implement something like this into your shop?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so a couple things. One, we're in a college town, so Okay. We have lots of students who come in. The students we're finding, I mean, mailers are generally a pretty good way of advertising in our industry.
Rob Borden: And we do them still, but we get so much more return from our Facebook and Instagram ads or Snapchat ads, TikTok, I mean, but we're on all those social media.
Jimmy Lea: That's where they are.
Rob Borden: And so we have to go where they're at. So we do advertise in all those medias. And so we're trying to stay on the leading edge of all that as best as we can.
Rob Borden: So having an AI help answer the phone just kinda makes sense. I did actually in my journey to finding voice controller I almost paid a hundred grand to have a a virtual AI service advisor built for me. So there's there's some god, ah, yeah. So I had the whole quote put up together and was really considering 'cause a hundred grand in the scheme of things Really?
Rob Borden: Well, a lot of money. That's what I paid my advisor a year and I got three of them, so, right.
Jimmy Lea: So that adds up quick, but that would be a hundred grand today and then nothing to up keep.
Rob Borden: Maintenance cost.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah.
Rob Borden: So anyway, so I didn't end up doing that. A hundred grand seemed like a lot. The technology I don't think is quite there yet.
Rob Borden: So, and so in really digging in, I just don't think it would actually provide the user experience that I'm really trying to provide at this time. I think the future's coming.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man. It is so close. So what is your ai, what does voice controller do for you right now?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so voice controller, what it's doing for us is, it's answering the phone when we don't, and so prior to finding voice controller, we never, we didn't have a voice machine set up. And it technically I think, went there after maybe two or three minutes, but we never checked it. We were just too busy. There's just too much happening. Yeah, it just fell there and they'll call back if it's important, so.
Rob Borden: Okay. And so it was really helpful for us. It then helped pick up the calls during the week, on the weekend when we're not here, 'cause we're Monday through Friday. So what happens on the weekend? People still call you a shop? I didn't know how many people called my shop. Actually kind of was embarrassed when I realized how many people called and we weren't open.
Rob Borden: So, I did pull some stats for whatever value it is. Last week.
Jimmy Lea: I wanna know.
Rob Borden: Yeah. So last weekend just couple days ago between Saturday and Sunday, we had 11 people call the shop over the weekend. Okay? So 11 people called. Out of those 11 people that called, three of them had meaningful conversations with the AI chatbot that they were talking back and forth with, and one of those ended up actually being a new appointment.
Rob Borden: So the other two were somebody saying, Hey, one guy, he was little. Interesting character. He called and he said, how do you justify? He's asking the ai, it's an elderly, it's an elderly gentleman. Yeah. He's asking the ai, how do you justify charging $180 for a headlight on my daughter's car? And he is, and he doesn't even talk about what car it is or who he is.
Rob Borden: But then the AI's like, oh, I'm so sorry to hear that there's a price discrepancy. Can I have a service advisor give you a call back? And he and the guy says, no, I don't need anyone. Call back. I'm just mad. And the AI's like, oh I'm so sorry. You're frustrated. And the AI just responded perfectly all the way through.
Rob Borden: And by the time the call was over, the the guy said, well, I guess have somebody call me. Thanks. And hangs up. So of course, Monday morning now, I get an email from Uhhuh a summary of this phone call and I go listen to the recording. And I realize he is kind of a crackpot. But anyway, I call the guy and make sure that everything's fine and talk through the, how we came to that pricing on that car.
Rob Borden: And anyway, so it was that was a call that we would've just missed maybe. Oh, totally. And I mean we did kind of miss it. Right. But the AI picked it up and was able to then have a conversation. The guy was able to get enough of his anger in that moment out that then Monday morning, he wasn't standing at our front lobby complaining.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Rob Borden: Right. He got enough of the complaint out that then.
Jimmy Lea: And then when you called, he was more receptive.
Rob Borden: Totally. So I think for all the shop owners on here, you guys have probably experienced, when you have a angry customer up front that's mad at your service advisor comes and finds you and then says, Hey, this is what's going on.
Rob Borden: You walk up front, you say hi to the person, you say, hi, my name's Rob. I'm the, you know, I'm the owner. What? What can I help you with? Everything just goes like this.
Rob Borden: It just drops.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: And it's because the person just wants to talk to the second person. They don't wanna talk to the first person.
Rob Borden: Yeah. So sometimes the AI can help you be the first person.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The AI is the first. Now you become the second. Oh, I love it. Yeah. So, okay. I want to do, can you put dollars to Yeah. Donuts here?
Rob Borden: Yes, I can. So I think it's worth going just a little further. So, out of the three calls that came in this weekend, yes.
Rob Borden: One of them was the angry older gentleman.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, well, hold on a second. Let's go back. So there's 11, that means that eight of 'em what? Eight of them didn't, yeah. Engage.
Rob Borden: Eight of 'em heard. Eight of 'em heard that it was an AI and said, I don't want to engage and hung up the phone. Okay. So, so there is a very real amount of people who just aren't willing to accept the technology yet, so that is a thing.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Okay. So eight. Don't engage. Three do. One guy complains, the other person said, Hey, I'm just calling to check up on the status of my vehicle.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Rob Borden: And the AI informs them that we're closed and does it in a really nice good way that then the customer's like, oh, okay. I guess that makes sense. Can you, and then the AI asks, would you like me to schedule a service advisor to give you a call back on Monday when we open?
Rob Borden: Okay, great. We'll do, so the customer ends that, fine enough. Right. But they had a conversation with it. I mean, they, I sometimes, I think when you listen to the calls, you can tell the customers are just trying to see how smart is this thing.
Jimmy Lea: Right? Yeah. I'm gonna test it.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Which is pretty cool.
Rob Borden: And then the third the third person called and they said, Hey, I'd like to schedule an oil change. And the AI just responded perfectly with, sure, no problem. Is there anything else going on with your car? No, nothing else going on with my car. Great. I can set you up on Tuesday or Thursday at this time or this time, what works best for you and literally just scripted right through it and the customer scheduled book the appointment.
Rob Borden: And then we got an email that then said all of the things that all the hit points so that, that way Monday morning we were able to enter that into our point of sale system. We're currently using tech metric.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Is there talk of that going directly into tech metric or, yeah, that's, that is always stay apart.
Rob Borden: My fingers are crossed. My fingers are crossed that's coming. It sounds like it's in the pipeline. I've I've just been told that there's some beta going on, so hopefully I get to be a part of that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that'd be fun.
Rob Borden: But that'd be cool if it could go directly in there. Yeah, I do know that it goes directly into their other shop management system.
Rob Borden: They have their own voice controller has their own shop management system.
Jimmy Lea: Shop controller.
Rob Borden: Yep. And so it does work with that. So if you have it, it's auto integrated already, but.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Oh, that, that's cool. So you imagine that the customer experience, here it is, the weekend, I know I need an oil change, but I'm so busy during the week, this is the time I can call, I can now call.
Jimmy Lea: Now I, I want an oil service. Now what if I add to my order? What if I want? It just says hot tires rotated. I need new windshield wipers and I want to air filter. Will it look for a block of time that is appropriate?
Rob Borden: You know, that's a great question. I don't know the answer to that.
Jimmy Lea: Probably.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Sounds like, so I know that at least with currently the way my system is set up Yeah. Or the way that we're utilizing it is we get an email that tells us all these things. So it's, when it's evaluating time of day, we have it set so that way it'll not do more than two appointments in any given hour.
Rob Borden: That's just how we set it up.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice.
Rob Borden: So it's just gonna call that an appointment, whether someone says it's a DAG or whatever, it's just gonna call it an appointment. Yep. And you can't have more than two appointments in any one hour.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. So it won't schedule more than two or.
Rob Borden: Correct.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Rob Borden: But it doesn't necessarily currently know what things we have in any given time.
Rob Borden: So that's, we have nine bays. Right.
Jimmy Lea: There's. They're still separate. You got nine bays, so you could take a lot more than a guy with four bays or six bays. You two an hour.
Rob Borden: That's some flexibility. Yeah. Yeah. Two an hour is no problem.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Rob Borden: And then we don't let it set anything for eight o'clock just 'cause there's so much that happens at eight that someone wants to schedule with the ai. We make a schedule after nine o'clock.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Rob Borden: It's just a little nuance.
Jimmy Lea: Well shoot. You're just barely showing up. Clicking on the coffee pot. You're, I mean, come on, we, and you're walking in the door. Hey, wait a second. We just got here five minutes ago.
Rob Borden: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Nine o'clock.
Rob Borden: So maybe that's my key. Maybe that's my key to the 3 million. Maybe I need to open it. Maybe I need to have the AI schedule at eight o'clock. We'll see.
Jimmy Lea: Well, do you have the night drop? You have a key drop?
Rob Borden: We do, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. There you go. They could drop anytime. Yep.
Rob Borden: Yeah. We do actually have people at the front counter at seven, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, well.
Rob Borden: We just, the technicians by the time we have a morning meeting and all the things. I just don't like having people wait in my lobby at eight in the morning.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I, yeah, I agree. I agree. I think it's wise. And if you have the choice to be able to do it that way,
Jimmy Lea: I mean, shoot, test it. Test it. Rob, for a week you do it 8:00 AM for a week, you do it 9:00 AM for a week, you do it 8:00 AM a week, you do it 9:00 AM what's the experience?
Rob Borden: Right. And when a customer calls and they're set on eight, we'll give it to 'em at eight.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. Sure.
Rob Borden: So that, so I just shared with you what happened over the weekend. Yes. Let's talk about during the week. So during the week. Okay. I have three advisors. Right.
Jimmy Lea: During the week, are you talking about last week or were you talking about so far this week?
Jimmy Lea: What do you where? Give us reference.
Rob Borden: Oh, recall. Yeah. Last week. So I pulled the information for last week. So Monday through Friday last week I had three advisors working the front counter. We handle just under 400 cars a month. Okay. Just in terms of size, that's what we're doing. Phone rings all the time.
Rob Borden: It's ringing. Yeah. And it seems like it's always ringing, but we got three people up there to answer it, right?
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Rob Borden: But I'll tell you, it's amazing how many calls get missed. You don't even know that you're missing 'em. Like I think that we run a good business. I like to think that my guys don't miss any phone calls and that they're excellent.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Rob Borden: But life happens. And if you're not on the front counter, you won't see that. It gets missed. They get missed. So we had 21 total calls last week that were missed.
Jimmy Lea: Missed.
Rob Borden: So we had 21 phone calls that the advisors didn't answer. That's an average of what, four a day?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,.
Rob Borden: It's busy. I. It was very busy.
Jimmy Lea: Well, okay, so we're blessed because you're busy and then you're, I mean, you missed 21. Okay, so gimme some numbers here. Now, what's some results from the 21?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so out of the 21, 7 people had a meaningful conversation with the ai.
Jimmy Lea: 30%. Okay. Keep going. Yep.
Rob Borden: And I say meaningful, you know, we kind of talked about two different examples of what meaningful meant, right?
Rob Borden: For sure. But during the week, most of what those are is the person is frustrated. They didn't make it to somebody, but at least they're being talked to and told. An advisor will call them back when we're no longer busy.
Jimmy Lea: Excellent, excellent. Okay.
Rob Borden: And so it at least appeases them in that moment to some extent.
Rob Borden: And then an advisor can then give them a call back.
Jimmy Lea: Caller number one.
Rob Borden: Yep. And then out of that, we actually had three people book an appointment during the week. So we had four total appointments between last week and the week and this last weekend. And we have an average a RO of 750 bucks. Times four.
Rob Borden: So that's $3,000 of business that potentially we would've missed.
Jimmy Lea: True.
Rob Borden: Would we have, maybe they would've called back. Maybe they would've called back a later time. Maybe they would've waited till Monday. But on the same token, I know when I've had my service advisors, every time I have a new service advisor in the first week of training, I have 'em call all of our competitors.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Okay.
Rob Borden: And I want them to ask some just basic questions. So they're calling some of you guys.
Rob Borden: Yeah. Not really. You're not my town, but.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and what's interesting too is you give them a solid foundation that says. This is why we're better because you've called everybody. You know what they're saying.
Jimmy Lea: And this is our script. This is what we're doing. This is why we're better. So, yeah. Okay. Keep going. You have 'em call everybody in town.
Rob Borden: Yep. And so they then get to hear how that process goes. And some people are not as good at answering the phone as others. And, so what I, how I believe a customer's mind works when they're wanting something fixed.
Rob Borden: I gotta check engine light and I'm frustrated. I don't know where to go. They go to Google, they look it up, and they start calling. They start at the top and they work their way down and they go until they find somebody that they like. I. It's not about money, it's about who they like. And so somebody says 150 bucks, someone says 120 bucks.
Rob Borden: Someone says 180. They're, it's not about price. They're asking you price, but it's not about price. They finally get to you and you have compassion and care and offer a solution, and the money doesn't matter, and then they come in. So I like that the AI answers the phone and has the compassion. And that piece of it and understanding, and I think that the caller, not all callers, right, we just talked not all of them, but some of them do then enjoy getting that moment and are willing to then set the appointment.
Rob Borden: 'cause they say, wow, that's kind of a cool shop. They're. Implementing, you know, state-of-the-art technology.
Jimmy Lea: Love it.
Rob Borden: Which is kind of a big thing, right? So maybe,
Jimmy Lea: oh yeah,
Rob Borden: I'll use that on my car. State-of-the-art technology.
Jimmy Lea: So it's a progressive shop, so chances are they're trained, they know what they're doing, they're implementing future technology.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna do some quick math here. Sure. $3,000. In one week times four weeks, let's call that $12,000. I don't know if that's what you've done with your,
Rob Borden: I haven't broken down the math over all time. I literally just pulled the stats for this last week, just outta curiosity before I hopped on the call.
Jimmy Lea: And I love it.
Rob Borden: So you assume that's an average 12 grand a month worth of revenue. That is at least indirectly related to that appointment being, I mean, it's directly related to that appointment being set.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: We had to do a lot of other things to earn the business. Right?
Jimmy Lea: Sure. Oh yeah.
Rob Borden: But but directly related to an appointment set by voice controller
Jimmy Lea: because the call would've been missed it.
Rob Borden: Yeah, it was missed. It was the weekend or my guys were busy, or it happened after hours.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And even if the projection is half off and it's not 12,000, it's $6,000.
Rob Borden: Yeah. And you gotta figure out what your a RO is, right. What your profit margin is. Yeah. What's, I mean, I mean, we. Our industry shoots for typically 20%, but even if you figure 10% for quick numbers, 10% of 12 grand on a month, 1200 bucks.
Rob Borden: Man, that's a killer. ROII, I don't know exactly what they're charging new customers these days, but I think it's about a hundred bucks though.
Jimmy Lea: So how long have you been on voice controller?
Rob Borden: Yeah, good question. We've been doing it for about a year. We signed up last August.
Jimmy Lea: Whoa. Yeah, so oh, August. So August will be a year for you.
Rob Borden: Yeah. So maybe eight months. Yeah. Okay. August. Yeah, something like that.
Jimmy Lea: And wow. Did you see it with immediate results or was it like something that had to progressively get.
Rob Borden: Honestly, it felt like I. It felt like right in the beginning, the results were honestly the best.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: And I think that's because it was so new.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: And I do think some of those people who called have probably called us before. They're repeat customers. Yeah. And they said I'll just wait and I'll call back. Right. And they understand maybe that we're busy. So in the beginning we had a lot, I think we had more engagement with it than we do now.
Rob Borden: And I think it's just because people have kinda learned what it can do.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah. So your clientele is becoming more comfortable with it as well, which is awesome. And you're able to capture those calls on nights and weekends. Okay. So Cliff's got a question here. What's your hours, what are your
Jimmy Lea: shop hours?
Rob Borden: Yeah, so our front door is open seven 30 to five 30.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Rob Borden: And our technicians are here eight to five and we're Monday through Friday.
Jimmy Lea: Eight to five. And so are people there answering the phone? Seven 30 to five 30?
Rob Borden: Yep. And to be fair, we have like two guys that are here at seven that are answering the phone early, and they're here till six.
Rob Borden: I mean, our official store hours are seven 30 to five 30, but I, everybody here is all on profit sharing. So they're all encouraged to get here early, stay late and work hard. And I mean, I got texts sometimes that are here until 10. So, I mean, they're not supposed to be, but they, you know, if they're trying to get a project out and they wanna make the money, their flat rate they'll get it done.
Jimmy Lea: There you go. There you go. I like that. All right. Kyle has a question as well. Is this only for landline services or does this also stretch into mobile cell phones? And I don't know if you'll know that answer, Rob or not.
Rob Borden: I don't, we use a VoIP phone VoIP or our phones voice over ip. Yep. Yeah. So that would be, and the way and I would guess that it actually probably does work on mobile would be my guess 'cause the way that our system is set up is what happens in. We've set our VoIP system up. So instead of going to a voicemail after a certain amount of time, it forwards the call to a different number that voice controller gave me. So it calls that number. So I would assume with a mobile phone that if you could set it up to forward to a different number, you, it would work just fine.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Interesting.
Rob Borden: And I think you can do that. 'cause I'm thinking back to my taxi cab business days. Yeah. And we used we used a different phone system for that, but our competitor, they went to, I don't know, Verizon, at t, whatever it was, and they had it, so it rang the first phone and then when they didn't answer, it rang the second phone cell phone.
Rob Borden: And then when it didn't answer, it rang the third phone. And so they had three drivers. And the drivers were always fighting over who had phone one.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure.
Rob Borden: So, the way our system worked is we used RingCentral and it hit all the phones at the same time, so it was whoever could answer it fastest good.
Rob Borden: We had 10 of them. Right. It wouldn't have made sense to be the 10th phone. You'd never have gotten any business.
Jimmy Lea: No. Never. Yeah.
Rob Borden: So I'm sure that voice controller works great with mobile. I'm sure that they could figure out a way to make that work.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. All right. So your advice here for anybody checking out phone systems, ai, voice controller what advice would you give anybody checking out this system?
Rob Borden: Yeah. I think maybe temper your expectations. I mean, it, I just shared last week's data. It's excellent, but if I look at it.
Jimmy Lea: But you're also eight months on the program. Yeah. Typical results, not typical in month one.
Rob Borden: Yeah. And you know, so 21 plus 11, we had 30. Two calls last week, right? And out of those 32 calls, only 10 people engaged and only four people actually booked an appointment.
Rob Borden: So if you start looking at all the ones if you view life from a half empty perspective instead of a half full perspective, you could say, well, it's not working it's not doing anything right. But I'm excited about just the little bit that it does do that I was gonna miss anyway.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Rob Borden: And now I turned the little bit that I was gonna miss anyway into something awesome.
Rob Borden: And I mean, we do, you know, 200, 250,000 a month, so 12 grand. I mean, what is that? 5% of our business? That's pretty big. That's a pretty big chunk.
Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. That is a beautiful scenario. I really like that. I like that it's working for you, so definitely need to check it out. And you're on tech metrics, so hopefully in the future there's some two-way integration with it probably.
Rob Borden: Yeah, sounds like that's coming.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I would guess that anybody that is a cloud-based system would be able to have that integration possibility in the near future. There's just, there's so code to write in the background.
Rob Borden: Yeah, there's I've noticed this last year there's been a whole bunch of partnerships between technology companies.
Rob Borden: Yeah. I mean, there's been lots of merges, right? So as those merges continue it will just continue making it better for all of us as shop owners.
Jimmy Lea: Yep yep. A lot of friend partners. Yes. Friend partners happening in that arena. Yes. Which is, that's awesome. So from our audience, any other questions, comments, concerns, go ahead and type those into the q and a.
Jimmy Lea: We'd love to ask Rob before we let 'em go. And Rob, I do have one question that I'm gonna ask unless somebody else pipes in with their questions as well. My question is, if you had. A magic wand and you had one wish, what would you wish for the industry?
Rob Borden: that's a good question.
Rob Borden: I am not trying to overthink it, but I think the one, the thing I would wish the most is that that we could help elevate our profession. Higher in the social status arena.
Jimmy Lea: I love that.
Rob Borden: I think that there's a lot of people blue collar work. I think we do. I truly believe we are in an industry that is uncomparable to any other, and I'm talking with my, I have a brand new service advisor this week and I'm doing some training with them and we're talking through, and I really just don't think that there's any industry that compares to ours.
Rob Borden: And I think that a lot of other industries, you can draw similarities between each other, but I think in ours there's just, it's such a huge field and there's just so much to it that we talk about often On our front counter, we talk about how our technicians are doctors and that, and we use analogies to, you know, the di the only thing that.
Rob Borden: It's different between us and going to the doctors. When you go to the doctor, your body potentially could heal itself before the next doctor visit.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Rob Borden: But your car will not heal itself between this next oil change, so you need to fix whatever this is today. Right. But I do think that we are up there in.
Rob Borden: Level of difficulty with some of that with those other professions. And I my one wish would be that, that the public would see us that way. So I think it's our job as shop owners to elevate the industry. And that's why I'm not afraid to, like I said in the beginning, you know, we are the most expensive and by dollar.
Rob Borden: Yeah. And I'm okay with that 'cause we provide a ton of value.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Rob. We are, we just came home from our annual meeting at the summit. Carm had a presentation, a speech that he gave that talked about the term mechanic, that our industry has changed it, it's now a technician. And over the last 5, 6, 7, 8 years, it's been changed again.
Jimmy Lea: Are you aware of this?
Rob Borden: So we call 'em experts here. Nice. I love that. Is that the terminology? Is that what you.
Jimmy Lea: What he determined is that it is now an automotive specialist. Ah, yeah, that's good. So an automotive repair specialist and the term technician has been utilized by so many other industries now that it has lost its luster and expert.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Because expert is always descriptive of what we do in the automotive industry. Automotive repair specialist. It's a bit, that's a good one too, of a long name, but you know, maybe we'll work on an acronym there.
Rob Borden: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That current one doesn't work. We'll have to work on that one.
Rob Borden: Sure.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yvette is asking, how did you come up with the name of your shop? The Hive.
Rob Borden: Yeah. So, back to the taxi cab story. So, when we very first started well not, so remember, there was a competitor that launched very quickly thereafter, and that competitor said, 'cause we had 10 cabs and they only had three.
Rob Borden: And so they said the. It was a little mini cab war that happened at the airport and there was, it's a small regional airport, so there's not a lot of parking and Right. We would take up all the taxi spots. They wanted room in there anyway, so they were making fun of us and they said, you look like a bunch of bees.
Rob Borden: Just swarming around this airport. 'cause we literally took 10 cars and you couldn't be in any parking stall more than 10 minutes, but there was only a couple of them. So we just had all of ours lining up and every 10 minutes it would move and another one of us would slide into the spot and we timed it so that, that way they couldn't get in.
Rob Borden: Like I said, there's a little bit of cab going on, so, so. Because they said, we look like a bunch of bees. We said, how fun. When we then decided that when we opened a shop, when I opened a shop and now we had a new space, we said, let's just go back to the hive. Let's go back to the hive. And so the shop actually started not as an auto shop per se.
Rob Borden: It started as a place where we were fixing our taxi cabs. It was a, you know, we had couches and a lounge in there where the drivers would all hang out and watch TV and whatever. And then finally I kicked 'em all out and put in lifts and made more money.
Jimmy Lea: There you go.
Rob Borden: So that's how we became the hive.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. And I like the idea of the hive too, because the bees as a collective, as a community, they take care of each other. So here you are al also taking care of. Moscow, Idaho and the surrounding area to make sure everybody's safe on the roads, which is good for you as well. Yeah. Very cool.
Jimmy Lea: Well, the last couple of questions that are coming through here are about who it is. Are you talking about there's so many AI programs available in the industry right now? Who are you talking about? The company we're talking about? Let's see who asked. And Kyle is voice controller, so use this link up here in the top left corner there.
Jimmy Lea: So that voice controller knows that you are coming to them from our webinar, and it helps us to prove that these webinars are valuable, that they're of worth, that they're getting good information out there for the industry. And that's our goal. That's our mantra is to help the industry. We're gonna lock arms.
Jimmy Lea: This is a crazy storm we're in, and not every ship is created equal, but together, if we lock arms, nobody will be left behind. We can weather this storm together. So there's my hive story for you. Rob, thank you for joining us today. Rob, thank you so much for your experience. Thank you for your insight and your influence in the industry.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for helping to elevate the automotive repair in Moscow, Idaho. Thank you very much.
Rob Borden: Thanks, Jimmy. Appreciate you having me on today.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you're very welcome and thank you everybody for joining. We'll see you again next week.
![110 - Future Proofing Your Shop: A 2025 Auto Repair Outlook [THA 419]](https://pbcdn1.podbean.com/imglogo/ep-logo/pbblog2982136/110_Thumbnail7ltx4_300x300.png)
Thursday Mar 27, 2025
110 - Future Proofing Your Shop: A 2025 Auto Repair Outlook [THA 419]
Thursday Mar 27, 2025
Thursday Mar 27, 2025
110 - Future Proofing Your Shop: A 2025 Auto Repair Outlook [THA 419]
February 7th, 2025 - 00:50:31
Show Summary:
In this episode of Remarkable Results Radio, Carm Capriotto hosts a roundtable with coaches Wayne Marshall, Ryan Daily, and Fred Hules II from The Institute for Automotive Business Excellence to discuss the industry’s “Great Correction.” They explore how shifting consumer behavior, dealership competition, and rapid tech evolution are forcing shop owners to rethink operations. The conversation emphasizes improving communication with customers, shifting from selling to allowing customers to buy, training service advisors effectively, and elevating shop culture. The guests provide tactical advice for better onboarding, pricing strategies, and creating lasting customer trust in a changing market.
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
Guest(s):
Wayne Marshall, Industry Coach
Fred Hules II, Industry Coach
Ryan Daily, Coach/Facilitator
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:40] - Carm shares concern over declining “auto repair near me” searches and the need for mindset shifts in the industry.
[00:04:51] - Fred emphasizes that the basics still matter, delivering value and educating customers should be the focus.
[00:06:04] - Wayne explains the importance of listening deeply to customers to improve diagnostics and technician efficiency.
[00:07:10] - Ryan outlines the shift from selling to building trust, letting customers want to buy based on value.
[00:08:18] - The panel recommends replacing the term "diagnostics" with "root cause analysis" to increase perceived value.
[00:09:56] - Ryan shares how transparency in DVIs, showing what doesn’t need repair, builds long-term trust.
[00:13:21] - Wayne highlights the growing importance of shop appearance and professionalism to meet rising consumer expectations.
[00:16:02] - Fred and Wayne stress that profitability must be intentional, owners need to believe in their value and price accordingly.
[00:21:19] - Ryan explains why training advisors before putting them on the phones is key to customer retention and shop success.
[00:34:23] - The panel discusses how strong internal culture fuels external customer experience and long-term business health.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
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Carm Capriotto: Hey everybody, Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio. So glad to have you here. I'm honored that you continue to support and listen to our podcast that we've been at for almost 10 years coming up in March of 2015 with over a thousand podcasts of just Remarkable Results Radio, 400 plus with the Town Hall Academy and so many more.
Carm Capriotto: We've got a great topic, something that's been really bothering me of late. There's, there is no doubt that doing business today is going to require a shift. In many things, a mindset shift, some of the processes that we do, what we need to start paying more attention to does your common sense and intuition climb up and say this kind of stuff doesn't work anymore.
Carm Capriotto: And I want us to, I've got three great business coaches I'm going to introduce in a minute. But I want to first thank so much. Our great sponsors here on the podcast, you know, for over 30 years, Napa tracks has made selecting the right shock management system easy. By offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry.
Carm Capriotto: Let Trax prove to you that they're the single best shop management system in the business. Find them at N A P A T R A C S .com. And if you've not yet done something with today's class, it's time ready to optimize your training with today's class, roll out a training plan for your automotive shop, just five minutes a day. Well, there is my panel. Good afternoon, gentlemen. Glad to have you here. Wayne Marshall is here. All of this entire group are coaches with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence on the web at wearetheinstitutecom. Wayne Marshall. Hello, Wayne.
Wayne Marshall: Good morning, Carm. Thank you for having us on.
Carm Capriotto: Retired, yeah, retired shop owner and coach. Ryan Daily is here. Hello, Ryan.
Ryan Daily: Hi, Carm. Thanks for having us.
Carm Capriotto: Glad you're here. The only, I think, guy with almost all brown, dark hair. Interesting. So, think about this. You get a bunch of gray haired guys on this thing, he says, they gotta have some wisdom, wouldn't you think?
Carm Capriotto: So. We earned every one of these gray hairs. That's right, Fred. And Fred Ewells II is also with us. Thank you, Fred, for being here. Look, as I was stating earlier. I'm really concerned that the business that we've had and how business has operated in the last four years may just be impossible. Same strategies going forward.
Carm Capriotto: I read this article from Auto Shop Solutions. Google's trends on auto repair near me had a significant drop in searches nationwide. Not uncommon, but it's the lowest in almost five years. And it was between December 1st and 7th, 2024. So I am not sure why that happened. I don't think anyone is, but it's something not to ignore, you know, put in the back of your head somewhere.
Carm Capriotto: So I'm thinking about costs aren't coming down dealership competition. How do we become more efficient yet? Keep our client experience. At its heights, labor challenges. We know all about four day work weeks and all about recruitment. We know all about retention. We all know the value of empowering culture inside of our place.
Carm Capriotto: And then think about the technology, EVs, ADAS, augmented reality, virtual reality, that's going to be kind of an interesting frontier for us. The technology inside of tools, CRM, SMSs, all these. Cool acronyms that mean so much to us. And then AI artificial intelligence. Ooh, don't ignore it. That's what I keep hearing and finding out on my very own.
Carm Capriotto: And then of course, think about the specialties that may really drive new revenue opportunities in our business. That maybe we shouldn't ignore like keys, eight S calibration, tires, and maybe even trucks. So Fred, I want to start with you. Basically, this stuff isn't rocket science, is it?
Fred Hules II: No, it isn't, Karm.
Fred Hules II: You know, one thing that's that I've come to learn in all the years I've been in this business is that we go through cycles. There's ups and downs. And I think we just experienced a tremendous. Upturn, you know, we're because of COVID and the money that was around and everything, you know, things became very easy for us, and now it's becoming a little bit more challenging, you know, that money's dried up. I know that, you know, talking with some of my clients, it's been getting a little bit more challenging to get some of the approvals, you know, like they're used to getting. And so it's just going to take us a little bit more effort and really focus on really what's important, you know.
Fred Hules II: I think it's really good. It isn't rocket science. It's all about taking good care of the customer and providing a value. And I think that sometimes gets lost in too many times that I'm finding with some of my clients, especially the service writers that work for them is that they assume too much, right?
Fred Hules II: They assume that the client knows why they should have something done on their vehicle. And that there's not enough time spent in educating and telling them, you know, this is the why's and what for. So it goes back to taking good care of that customer more important than ever.
Carm Capriotto: I just love what Fred just said.
Carm Capriotto: And I've been thinking a lot lately about the language that we use. Everyone knows I wrote this incredible declaration on a language shift. And in order to make that work in our businesses, we have to slow down. And remember that we're going to pick different wording and improve our language and the professionalism of our industry.
Carm Capriotto: And you just said a mouthful about our service advisors. Again, maybe one of the best coaching opportunities we can have in the next 30 days with our people is to slow down.
Carm Capriotto: You're speaking too fast. You're making too many assumptions. Your brain is here and their brains back here. That's a great point. You brought up.
Wayne Marshall: I just was going to add to what Fred said. And I agree 110%. We've got to turn in to be better listeners because again, just as you said, the customer doesn't know, ask good questions, but then listen, don't try to answer it for them. Don't rush them. Take that time. To get as much detailed information that you can get because it's going to make it so much easier that when that RO is written up and it goes back to the technician, they've got so much more information to do that diagnostics because the diagnostics as we all know is harder today than it used to be because the electronics and everything that's in the cars and you can spend a lot of extra time chasing things because we just didn't ask some of the right questions and or listen to.
Wayne Marshall: What the client or customer is trying to tell us as to what's going on with those vehicles?
Carm Capriotto: Ryan, you hearing much feedback from your clients about the dealerships.
Ryan Daily: Yeah, absolutely. So just to touch on that topic. I teach my advisors all the time. Let the customer buy from you. Don't sell them anything, right?
Ryan Daily: If the perceived value of the service exceeds the actual cost of the service, Now you got a buyer and I don't have to sell them anything, but if the perceived cost is lower than the cost of service, now I'm selling and it's so hard to sell today, it's virtually impossible. And in an era where we can YouTube and Google, we got a lot of YouTube master techs out there that, that love to tinker on their stuff themselves.
Ryan Daily: And that's great, but we've got to allow our customers to buy from us. And I think that's the significant difference between. What we used to do and what we're trying to do today. It's a big shift that we're teaching service writers and advisors, managers. It's a big part of what we need to do.
Carm Capriotto: I don't care what we want done.
Carm Capriotto: Plumbing, carpentry, HVAC. We go to YouTube. We think we know, we found the solution. We call the expert. They don't give us that same thing we think we know. And so, we don't buy, we don't get it, we think it's too much. Oh, it's easy. You can do this yourself. Just put your finger here. Right?
Ryan Daily: It's all about value terms Carm?
Ryan Daily: Yeah. We don't use the word diag has been just run through the mud with all these, you know, part stores that you can go to and get a free diagnosis. We all teach our clients at the Institute to use words like. I prefer to tell them we're going to do a root cause analysis because that's actually what we're doing.
Ryan Daily: We're not diagnosing, we're doing a root cause analysis. We don't scan anything, we onboard an interface. And those are value terms that actually bring value to our sales proposition.
Carm Capriotto: I have spoken to so many shop owners to your exact point, Ryan. And this has everything to do with this correction that we need to have inside of our business in the language that we use.
Carm Capriotto: Researcher testing instead of DIAG because people to your point about a root cause analysis. I love that it's a little scientific. Get it. But to say, listen, we've really got to get in there. I'm going to take my technology specialist and we are going to research everything we have on your computer, on your system, on your network, or we're going to perform, you know, at least a dozen tests probably in order for us to Get to the root cause.
Carm Capriotto: I think it is so critical today and I love what you said they want to buy from you. Don't sell them. That's powerful.
Ryan Daily: It's the basis of what it is that we do here at the Institute. This is how you maintain customer retention. This is how you we fixate on customer attrition rate. And, you know, we expect below a 5 percent customer attrition rate.
Ryan Daily: That's what we expect. And we can only gain that through trust. The customer has to trust that. We say it all the time, the green sells the red, right? Fred taught me that Fred taught me green sells the red. So when I'm doing my DVI, I'm not just sending out pictures of brake pads at two millimeters. I'm not sending out just the red.
Ryan Daily: I'm also sending out. the cabin filter and saying, Hey, look, this is great. You don't need to replace it. The air filter is fine. No need to replace it. And I think that's super important in gaining a customer's trust and allowing them to buy from you.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. It's almost like we need to see a lot more. Okay. So that we can say yes.
Fred Hules II: You gotta, you have to, the customer's got to know that what they're investing in makes sense. So, I mean, do I have a good horse to invest in here? So, you know, one thing that Ryan was talking about the attrition rate and, you know, we teach it, you know, what we look for is a 5 percent or less attrition rate.
Fred Hules II: And that's something we focus on. You know, I was talking to a client just the other day that, you know, his attrition rate seems to be increasing. And I was asking him, why do you think that is, you know, and Carm, you mentioned, you know, A bit ago about the, you know, the dealerships and whatnot. And he says we know that a few of our customers are starting to buy new cars.
Fred Hules II: Okay. And I don't know if anybody's looked at this number recently, but new car sales for the last year have been up for the first time in a while, right? The big three of, I think what the Ford is up 13 percent year over year. Last year already. So we're starting to see some of those new car sales again, right?
Fred Hules II: So it's about educating our customers again and making sure that they're aware of that. We can service their cars, even though they bought it new. It's not gonna hurt anything with their warranty. But knowing then to there is that possibility. A lot of these new cars are being sold with maintenance packages and whatnot that we might lose a little bit to that.
Fred Hules II: But we have to be. Proactive, right? So you have to be aware, you have to be listening and understand what's going on.
Carm Capriotto: And we've been there before.
Fred Hules II: Yes, we have. Yeah. But on the other hand though, what's really more exciting too, is that the average age of the fleet here in the States have gone up yet again.
Fred Hules II: Yeah, so it's up to 12. 5 years old in the fleet that's out there, you know, 150, 000 miles on average. So, I mean, that's a real sweet spot for us. And we're positioned like no other part of the industry to take care of those vehicles. You know, you mentioned a new car dealers. Are they going to be very well equipped to take care of those?
Fred Hules II: Cars and do they want to really?
Carm Capriotto: No, I think the answer is no.
Wayne Marshall: I think another thing that's really important that the service facilities need to recognize, just as we're talking about the new car dealers, look at the money that has been spent over the last five plus years. on their facilities. You've got waiting rooms with coffee stations, workstations, things.
Wayne Marshall: And I know most shops don't want customers to stay. As I talked to my clients, they want the drop offs. We'll give them a courtesy vehicle, but there's always going to be those times when that person's in for that shorter service, or maybe they're willing to sit there for a couple hours. We need to have all these people in their shops also start concentrate.
Wayne Marshall: Are we an attractive facility? What's our street appeal? Are we looking organized, clean, professional? Are your service and your writers and your service technicians, how do they look? How do they present themselves? All these things, the consumer's expectations are just starting to go up and up of what they should see and what we should be doing.
Wayne Marshall: And I hate to say this just because I am with Gray, but generationally we used to never worry about that.
Carm Capriotto: No.
Wayne Marshall: It was just like, no, that was what, you know, it was okay. If we were a little dirty, little greasy, little, whatever today, it's not people's expectations for it have really changed of what you should look and how you present yourself.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Perfect. Exactly. Completely agree. Wayne. I always love compare many of the. Situations in our world and in our life in the automotive to doctoring. Okay. And so to your point about upgrading our facility and making it look sharp. Okay, so there's no waiters. Think about picking up the phone, calling your doctor, listen, the internet's down, come in and pick up the script, or I'm going to drop by, okay, he's got something he wants you to test or try, and you walk in and you see, wow, what's going on here?
Carm Capriotto: This is really nice. There's a level of trust, confidence that happens when the place looks good. So thank God we've spent the money, maybe we had it to spend, I get all of that, but that was an investment in our future.
Fred Hules II: You know, to Wayne's point, you have to have though the resources to be able to, you know, make sure that your facilities up to date and looking right and fresh paint and the nice furniture and all that stuff.
Fred Hules II: So, you know, where does that come from? It comes from our customers and we got to take really good care of them and we got to know how to run our businesses and price things accordingly. You know, even then I still have some clients that I get pushed back on. Um, you know, wanting to raise their prices so that they have the profitability, not only number one, you know, one thing we've learned about going through COVID, how important it is to take care of our people, right?
Fred Hules II: And how do you do that? You have to have resources, right? You have to have the money in order to pay the top talent, right? What's going to keep these guys from leaving you or gals somewhere else. You got to be able to retain them, stay engaged with them, and you have to have the resources to be able to pay them what really they deserve.
Fred Hules II: I mean, this is a tough industry we're in, right? The technology is ever changing, right? And so there's a lot that we expect of our people to be on top of all that stuff. So we have to be able to pay them.
Carm Capriotto: You nailed the profit word. Let's talk about that a little bit. It was very easy for many people to climb up and out and find themselves a good, strong net operating income.
Carm Capriotto: But now with this shift, listen, let's just stop and think about the number Of very large corporations who've decided to cut a very big swath of their middle management out, gone, done. You've not read the articles. You need to be aware of an economic impact of middle management. That there was a lot of great money there.
Carm Capriotto: These were directors. These were VPs of companies that may not necessarily land somewhere right away. That's money. That's going to come out. Of, you know, the spend cycle. And I think it's something we have to pay attention to. So the profit issue, you all have great clients. I'm sure you have worked very hard to put them in a very sustainable profit mode.
Carm Capriotto: Is it difficult to get some shop owners to buy in and make this shift?
Fred Hules II: Yeah, we have some that will just listen to us and take the ball and run with it. And, you know, within a matter of. A couple of months, they've got things turned around profitability wise, and then there are others that just for whatever reason they resist, you know, and I think it has to do with their mindset.
Fred Hules II: A lot of it has to do with, you know, where the pricing is set. We got to go by that, you know, by somebody else, whether it be a supplier or they're worried about what the dealer charges and everything else. And they just can't get over the fact that it's all about the value part, right? Because my experience has been, I'm sure it's been for Wayne and Ryan.
Fred Hules II: The same is that if people know that they're getting something for their money, the money really doesn't matter, you know, just like Ryan was saying, you know, you give the value and everything. You're not selling anything. They're going to buy from you. It comes really down to that mindset. And we got the shop owners.
Fred Hules II: We have to believe in ourselves. Got to believe in our people, stick our chest out proud, that we're worth it, and we are.
Wayne Marshall: Fred's right. I get into conversations and I'm just blown away at times. You'll have someone and you'll start talking about, and we'll share, you know, here's what we're seeing. Here's the trends in the industry. You need to really come up five, ten dollars an hour. And they'll just Fights it tooth and nail over 5.
Wayne Marshall: We sit there and we go what's your average RO? It's this, and your average labor is three hours. You're talking 15 on a 750 or 800 average RO. Do you really think your customers are going to, and they're like I'm going to lose business. You really think they're going to leave over 15? If they're going to leave over 15, let's talk about the customer experience and that value proposition, big picture, because you've got bigger problems than.
Wayne Marshall: That 15. So you start there and you build from there, but it is, it's just blows me away at times. And then once they do it, this is the other thing I have found. And we've probably seen it also, Fred and Ryan, then they do five and 10 and they're like that was easy. There was no big deal. Then the next time they're like let's go another 10.
Wayne Marshall: And that's after just a few months. And it's like, let's be careful how fast you go. Wait, six months, go another 10 and then just kind of pay attention and see, but it's all about those hours and getting a billable hours. That's what you're selling is your knowledge, your experience, and you got to watch them.
Wayne Marshall: You got to get it.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, but Wayne, isn't it about, look, listen, we've done the math. We know where our profit target goals are. This is what we have to do up here in order to make something down there happen.
Wayne Marshall: So it's not only that, but I know I can, I'm not going to try to say what Fred and Ryan are seeing, but I'm sure what I see, it's not just, are we getting the right labor hour rate. It's about, are we charging enough labor? Because I'm seeing, and I'm sure we're all seeing at times, they're not doing a good inspection. They're not doing a good estimate. They didn't get the job and they didn't bill for that extra 30 minutes to an hour they should have. So they got labored leakage.
Wayne Marshall: So you're not being efficient with the hours you have every week with your tech to maximize. Even if you get the right hourly rate, are we getting all the right billable time into the estimate and charging the client customer what they should be charged for all the work you're doing. It's a, you're right.
Wayne Marshall: It's a combination of things. It's not just flight, raise your rate, but make sure you're getting everything else done correctly and properly.
Carm Capriotto: Ryan, I've got to jump to you on this because your expertise at the Institute is the service advisor segment. And I know that's what you're. extremely passionate about.
Carm Capriotto: And if we think about a great correction, one of the things that I have felt for the last, like six months is the critical importance of continuous training of our front counter and how impactful. To a degree, don't sell them, let them buy from you. That is a great concept that you spoke earlier. Let's dive into the power of our counters going forward.
Ryan Daily: Sure. If it's that old adage, right? A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. And if my technicians aren't doing a proper inspection on the vehicle that we have in the shop on a lift, and they're not doing a good inspection on that's our opportunity to allow a customer to buy from us if we don't know.
Ryan Daily: What the customer needs. We can't formally educate the customer on whatever their needs are. It's just impossible. And training advisors, we got to remember, you know, you only get one chance to make a first impression. Our advisors are our impression to our customers, right? They are customer facing.
Ryan Daily: They're the ones that are talking to the customer, educating the customer. So the customer buys from them at our shops. If our advisors are ill trained, I have a shop and they're bringing on another advisor here very soon. And their 1st thing was, okay what we'll do, they have a phenomenal advisor right now, and 2nd, because.
Ryan Daily: They're just so busy and it's a diesel shop and their whole thought process was we're going to bring in this junior advisor We're gonna let them answer the phone. I said no Don't let them answer the phone. That's where we always want to start We always think that we take a junior advisor and put them on the phone I take a junior advisor and I let them do the clerical work so they understand work order flow So they understand how a proper RO is written And the phone is our, one of our best tools.
Ryan Daily: I don't want somebody that is not formally trained yet to be fielding the phone calls from potential customers. that are coming in. And to Wayne's point, I think it's okay that we can say that not every customer is our customer as well. I have a whole price shopper flow chart that I go through with my advisors to teach them how do we deal with those price shoppers.
Ryan Daily: And I tell them all the time, what is your average technician worth? How many technicians do you have? I have three. Okay, and what are we paying those guys an hour? 50 bucks? So that's 150 an hour for them, and you're the one feeding that machine. So your time is just as valuable, if not more valuable, than the technician as an advisor.
Ryan Daily: And I don't think that we look at it that way sometimes. We constantly send technicians out for training. And we don't think about the advisors.
Carm Capriotto: So let me stop you for a moment and ask a couple of things. I love your philosophy. Let's not put them up and on the counter to answer the phones, but we need to have some training, probably get them hooked up with Ryan.
Carm Capriotto: We need to make sure they understand how the operation works, what our process workflow, as you said. But another thought that I had was, okay, for an hour a week, we're going to have them listen to calls of other people. Maybe even part of the training with Ryan, we're going to go in and just, this was a great answer that way.
Carm Capriotto: So the point of it is, I guess the conditioning inside the culture of the company, the right way to answer the right way to workflow, the right way to estimate the right way to, you know, talk about the DVI. It seems to your point, what is it? A 30 day wait before they become any perfect value for you?
Ryan Daily: Depending on the person. I mean, it really depends on their ability. Are they a sponge or are they a rock? And that's really what you hire slow and you fire fast. It's all about the culture. And if we have the right person in the right seat and that person is a sponge, I have advisors that I coach.
Ryan Daily: That have been advisors for over 10 years and they still want, they still need the coaching. I listened to hundreds of phone calls a week with my clients and we go through and we don't Monday morning quarterback it. We just talk about a standardization of the way that we answer the phone. How do we, are we building that value?
Ryan Daily: Are we talking to her? Are we educating our customer? Don't just send the DVI and sit on it. Send the DVI and then give them a call so you can explain it. And, you know, honestly, the advent of the DVI, a picture is worth 1, 000. That's what we tell our clients. You know, I have shops that minimum of 20, 25 pictures.
Ryan Daily: I don't care if they're all green, right? But at the end of the day, don't just send the DVI and then sit on it.
Carm Capriotto: The client needs to know that you care to the point where you're looking at everything. And thank God we have found this vehicle is in such great condition. You should be very happy and proud.
Carm Capriotto: And you know, the cost per mile is going to continue to. be solid. What about a role reverse in an idea where you have an individual listening to the call with you and say, is if you were a customer, how do you think you did?
Ryan Daily: Yep. We do that all the time. We have several different softwares that we use to listen to phone calls.
Ryan Daily: Every shop has their own. If you don't have a call recording software as a shop, I don't know what you're doing. You've got to know what's being said when you're not there, and it's super important.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, we've got a great sponsor in our network, Inbound, and I know there's a million of them else out there.
Carm Capriotto: Wayne, Fred, want to chime in on that service advisor section at all?
Fred Hules II: I think one thing that I picked up that you said, especially with the DVI and sending them out, Ryan said this, you know, you've got to call the people. You know, one thing that I think we ought to caution ourselves with, I mean, we've got technology all around us.
Fred Hules II: And we've got these fantastic tools at our disposal, you know, online scheduling, the DVIs, you know, all this stuff around here to make our lives easier, but what I want people to really understand, you know, as I said earlier, about the rocket science thing, we still need to build relationships. We still need to reach out and touch our customers.
Fred Hules II: As Ryan says, call them up after you send the DVI. You know, talk to them about it, right? Make sure they understand what they're seeing, educate them, right? So I think that's the part of the whole value part of it that I don't, that a lot of people are missing this day and age. You know, it's really important.
Fred Hules II: Stay engaged with your customer. It was just like we should stay engaged with our staff, right? To make it all work.
Carm Capriotto: Hey, Wayne. I just had a, I just had an outer body experience about that. What Fred just said, be a teacher.
Wayne Marshall: Yep. I'll tell you what, we're all saying the same things. I listen to a lot of calls.
Wayne Marshall: We give feedback. We talk about it. It is so simple. When anybody comes in as part of your intake, ask them how they want to be communicated to. Some people might be in a job that they can't take that phone call, but they'll easily take a text or an email through their smart. you know, device that they have with them, just ask them because me personally, I'd rather have someone just call me and talk to me than send me a text or send me an email.
Wayne Marshall: The other thing of it is obviously there's always, after you've had all these conversations and we've set this wonderful bar of expectation, one of the things I Tell people, and I just call it the two by two rule. After the customer leaves, what are you doing? Are you following up? Two days afterwards, are you okay?
Wayne Marshall: Was everything done well? It could be, and if you've qualified how they want to be communicated with, it could be a simple text. Did our service meet your expectations or follow up in two weeks? Is everything looking really good? But if you haven't had any touch, you need to talk to them in two months. Who else could use our services?
Wayne Marshall: I mean, everybody likes to say. Hey, let me tell you about the guy I have. I got this guy that works with my car and he's awesome. Everybody loves to be that person to say they got a guy or got a person. Encourage them, but that's gotta be after the sale and after the service is done. Because you know something, we all know some of the service intervals that the manufacturers are saying.
Wayne Marshall: There's no way on God's green earth I'm waiting 10, 000 miles for an oil change. I don't care what the manufacturer says. But these are these things that if we don't talk and stay in touch afterwards, two days, two weeks, or two months, whatever you choose to do, there's got to be some rhythm. It's too easy for them to forget who you are.
Wayne Marshall: And we want to stay top of mind because most service that needs to be done. There are things you look at it's maintenance, but if it's a break fix, your car won't start. You want to be top of mind that they look and call you immediately. They're not looking on the internet, who to call. They already know who to call.
Fred Hules II: Yeah. But Wayne, what about the guy that the shop owner, and I know that you know of them that will say the manufacturer is right. You know, they're the ones that say it's, you know, the 10, 000 mile interval or maybe the lifetime fluid in the transmission. I mean, what do you say to that guy?
Wayne Marshall: I always put it back to their personal vehicle and I use myself as an example.
Wayne Marshall: And I've owned European cars where they do have some, a BMW. It's a sealed unit. You never need to change the transmission fluid. But at the same time, BMW will tell you, flush your brake fluid, flush other fluids and replace, but don't worry about that. And you go into those conversations and I find it, you're always going to get the one guy who's going to go, I don't care.
Wayne Marshall: This is what I'm going to do. But usually when you sit and you talk to people. And it's like, if it was your vehicle, would you wait that? And then he goes no, then treat it like you, you know, or if it was your daughter's, there's another, it was your kid, I wouldn't do that.
Carm Capriotto: I heard a great response to that 10, 000 mile thing.
Carm Capriotto: And it says, listen, the manufacturer has worked very hard to get their cost per mile down so they could put it on the tag outside of the car. 10, 000 mile oil change is part of that formula. And it is just not, but then you get a YouTuber out there that says, listen, it's 10, 000 miles and don't let any shop tell you different.
Carm Capriotto: And the consumer is kind of, what do I do? You know, Wayne wants me to do this. I'm hearing from other people in the manufacturer that, and again, I think it goes back to this great. You know, the pitch, if you will, let them buy from you. The fact that you're looking for a longevity cost per mile for them.
Carm Capriotto: And God help it. If we go 10, 000 mile oil changes and all the things that can happen, it's too important not to get your customer to trust you for all the right reasons. Correct.
Fred Hules II: I think it's important to, you know, just realizing what the new car manufacturers, when they design these plans to get the cost per mile down.
Fred Hules II: You remember they're all in it to sell cars, right? And they're, you know, a lot of our customers are, you know, they're buying a car and they're keeping it for a long time these days. I mean, as evidenced by the number that I gave before, but the manufacturer's motivation is not necessarily the same thing.
Fred Hules II: So we got to recognize that. So that's a part of explaining and teaching our customers.
Ryan Daily: We always want to pre schedule too. When the customer comes and picks up their vehicle, we've held up our end of the bargain, we've under promised and over delivered, we've done everything right, and the customer's happy.
Ryan Daily: And Mr. Customer, you're, you have 98, 000 miles on your car right now. Manufacturer says you need 100, 000 mile service based on your driving habits. I'm going to schedule you for March 14th. If you get close to 100, 000 miles before then, give me a call. I'll move the schedule around and get you in. Cause this is a very important service and that's how we keep retention.
Ryan Daily: That's how we keep the attrition rate down. We keep our customers coming to us and you know, where we should be advocates for the vehicle, not advocates for the person. I think we get it misconstrued there. Customer service, good customer service. Isn't sugarcoating the truth to somebody. Good customer service is educating them and being an advocate for their vehicle.
Ryan Daily: We can speak tech and ease as advisors, right? We're bilingual. We're fluent in customer and tech and ease. We need to use that and we need to. Absolutely pre schedule your customers to come back and see you, whether it's for an oil change or 100, 000 mile, 120, 000 mile service, whatever it might be, we need to be an advocate for that vehicle and keep them on the road reliably and safe.
Carm Capriotto: Okay, we have had an incredible conversation so far, and I have only another nine thoughts floating in my head and, you know, because we're here talking about, we're in this great correction. What are we going to do about it? Advice from the experts. So here's the couple of the thoughts and maybe we can cover that this in the next 15 minutes, marketing, our marketing, spend our aging workforce to the point, not only for succession and selling, but many of our great specialists that work in the bays, they're getting old.
Carm Capriotto: We know that. Let's pick one of these. Let's get this, just this culture thing up in and out. I mean, we're culture, great culture inside breeds it outside to the client experience.
Fred Hules II: Without a doubt. I mean, if your people are in line with the owner's mission of the company. And everybody is pulling in the same direction and the staff knows they're appreciated.
Fred Hules II: They're going to be better apt to take care of that customer when it comes in with a, you know, with a willingness and wanting to be of help, versus a culture that is disconnected. And, you know, there are people are there just to punch the time clock, come in and do their job and go home. You know, that's a totally different.
Fred Hules II: Set of circumstances. So, you know, here again, I think that's one of the really, you know, benefits of us going through what we just did, this thing called COVID that we learned a lot of those lessons, right? How important it is that we take care of our staff and that, you know, one thing I always would tell my people is that, you know, especially when I'm bringing somebody on as a new hire, this business is here to serve us.
Fred Hules II: And what we want to accomplish for us and our families, not just my family, but your family, right? So that's why we're here. And while we're here, we need to make sure that we're focused and we're doing our job and take care of our people and our customers will take care of us. But that's why we're here.
Wayne Marshall: I agree, 110 percent and realizing the psychological aspect of how people are, if we don't stand up. As a business owner or manager and define our expectations and what we're trying to do and what we're trying to deliver, you're leaving it up to your employees. Which they'll all do. We'll all, we do it by human nature.
Wayne Marshall: Our imagination will fill in the gap. Now, our imagination, our assumptions might be spot on. And if I work for Fred, I may be, he doesn't have to tell me I understand it, but that's a rarity. Most people. They don't know if we're not taking the time to explain, just as Fred stated, we're leaving it up to them to create their own identity of what our brand is or our culture and execute it at their level.
Wayne Marshall: And then we can't be mad at them when they don't do it. When we never set the bar of expectation and gave them the definition of what it is and what those deliverables are.
Carm Capriotto: I have to tell you, that was a powerful statement. Our imagination will. Fill in the gap.
Wayne Marshall: It's a true statement , but it is so true. And it's just like when we, and you take a young apprentice who comes in and yeah, he just came out of school and you're going, yeah, he knows all this.
Wayne Marshall: And he went to this tech college or whatever. They've got the fundamentals, but when it comes to the daily operational, we're thinking they've been trained. What do you mean he doesn't know how to do this? So you always got that senior guy who's doing the QC for you and doing the other things and giving them the feedback so they know and understand what the deliverables are.
Wayne Marshall: One of the things I've done with clients when I start talking to them, I said, look at it this way. If you want to talk about culture and how people look at you, if for whatever reason your facility, your business was having a funeral and you died, who would come? Who would care? Would you have customers come?
Wayne Marshall: Will your vendors, parts suppliers come? Will your employees come? Or will all those people just say, Oh, it's too bad. And all they did was go out, find another place to get their car fixed, find another place to sell their parts, or find another place to work. When you can develop that, where they start feeling the impact, because as Fred said, we're stakeholders in this as a team.
Wayne Marshall: It's not just me. We're all stakeholders. Everybody's important. All the parts suppliers, they depend on us to spend money with them. You depend on us to do it right, to pay you your wages. So it's kind of a harsh and maybe a dark way to look at it. Talk about a funeral, but that's when you know when people love you, care for you, and they are sad to see you gone.
Wayne Marshall: Now you know you've created that culture. You've really done something.
Fred Hules II: Let that sink in.
Carm Capriotto: That is a great point. And I loved your point about bringing on someone in someone new and expecting, Oh, it was one of these, you cannot take a brand new person, even if they're. An established senior specialist that comes in, you cannot set it and forget it. You just can't. Now, if you want to lose your QC and your client experience going to go in the tank, just let someone come in and let me see a boat on steered.
Carm Capriotto: We'll go in a circle and it will just. Terrible. I loved your point about bringing on a young apprentice, maybe up and out of college. One of the things that in our mind we have to think about is this educational, this continuous education curve that has to exist in our business because everything is going on so fast.
Carm Capriotto: I don't care what it is, front counter, back counter, back office, in the bays, every day there's something new to learn. If you think about this level of Absorption and learning from one to a hundred and that one hundred keeps moving and moving and moving. Okay. It's a constantly high moving target.
Carm Capriotto: An individual comes in. That's a, an apprentice. Let's just put a number up there called 18 out of a hundred. And that hundred is going to keep moving. What are you going to do? You can't set it and forget it. You have to find mentors. You have to continue with education. And in fact, if you set the career pathing, Up is to the different kinds of jobs that person is going to be working on.
Carm Capriotto: They have something to look forward to. They're not making it up. They're not imagining the next thing.
Wayne Marshall: And that builds on culture that helps the, you know, most people, cause people, we all had someone in our lives who was a mentor to us at one time. And we think back fondly of those memories and the connections and how that person meant so much to us.
Wayne Marshall: And. It's not gonna be for everybody in a shop, but chances are when someone has an opportunity to share and teach, it makes them feel good. It's fulfilling for them just as much as it is to work with that young person, which creates connection, which creates them feeling their Belongingness, which helps everybody now not want to go find another job.
Wayne Marshall: You'll help in retaining because just as Fred said, you're explaining them that it's all symbiotic, man. It all works together and understanding that role is just as important as anything else that has to happen.
Ryan Daily: And investing in your staff, right? I mean, that's a huge part of culture.
Ryan Daily: You know, we oftentimes don't think of continuing education as an investment and it's a shame, you know, if it. People sometimes think, what if we spend all this money training this guy and he leaves? The worst case is, what if you don't train him and he stays? That's worse. That's far worse. So, that's all part of culture too.
Ryan Daily: I mean, your staff knows if you're spending Maybe a thousand, 2, 000 a month on training for them. They understand that's important to you because your customers are important to you and it starts to build that culture. They see that.
Fred Hules II: Investing in your staff is, you know, like you mentioned training too, but I'd like to suggest.
Fred Hules II: Investing in time also, you know, one of the things that we do, I mean, we, Ryan, I think you talked about, you know, be slow to hire and quick to fire when you really take the time to hire the right person on the team. And then they're there, right? You're on, what is your onboarding process, right? Are we setting them up for success in our company?
Fred Hules II: Do we have a process and a procedure that lays out what's going to happen day by day? You know, for the first couple of weeks to make sure they understand where everything is, you know, the parts, the hazmat material book, you know, all the stuff in our shops, you know, we don't want to leave anything to question.
Fred Hules II: As Wayne said, then their imagination is going to go the way it's going to go. So I think that's a really big part of it too. Are we investing time in our people to set them up for success and that's going to set up the right culture in our company.
Carm Capriotto: I am in love with that particular takeaway, Wayne, a 30 day onboarding process, and each and every day over the next 30 days, there is something going on inside your training process, and I'll bet you.
Carm Capriotto: Any shop owner can sit down and write 30 bullet points or just call it four weeks at five days 20 pick it four weeks of training 20 If you're a top tier shop, that's no problem to fill in those 20 days Not at all because you know The critical importance of no matter what job that person has the counter needs to know what's going on In the back needs to know what's going on in the front.
Carm Capriotto: The office, they need to know what's going on in the office. How do I do payroll? How do I sign up? How do I do this? How do I do get PTO? All of this stuff is so critical in an orientation, 30 day onboarding or orientation. Wow. You know, I don't know if we have even covered part, even part and parcel, 25 percent of the thoughts that I had about we're in a great correction.
Carm Capriotto: What are we going to do about it? And how are we going to move forward? I think we have to do a part two because there's so much more to discuss. And all of your great experiences were just, thank you for bringing them to us.
Wayne Marshall: One thing that I find really fascinating that we're seeing in The industry and we're seeing in businesses, small businesses across the country.
Wayne Marshall: It's that transfer of wealth. I mean, the government started talking about the baby boomers and the aging and the things that were coming. This started talking about five years ago. Plus we're in the heart of it today. And what is very encouraging for me at this industry, I know some of the clients I'm now working with, I've got some 20 year olds who have decided to buy or start their own shop and the enthusiasm and the way they're approaching is refreshing.
Wayne Marshall: So why there's still concern and we talk about the labor, the techs who are out there, the problem we're getting to get young people in the industry. I'm encouraged because I'm seeing some people and it's exciting to listen to them. I don't know about Fred or Ryan and some of your bases of, but I am genuinely excited the next time I get to talk to them as they're.
Wayne Marshall: Building and as they're getting excited and they're starting to make money and it's making a difference for their family and for their future. So if we can continue to work on that as an industry and we, as coaches, I think we're going to be fine in time. There's a, there's this day coming where there's going to be a continued transformation of who owns it, who runs them compared to those with the gray hair, as some of us on this call to those that are not.
Wayne Marshall: I'm excited that we're here to help. I'm excited that we get to do some things with some of those all on the selling side of the buying side. And even that developing the young people, there's some really cool people out there starting their businesses.
Carm Capriotto: I'm kind of moved by what you just said in something I very strongly believed in.
Carm Capriotto: Outsiders. From the industry that have some money, they want to come in and invest. I know a ton of them. They're doing so damn well because they approached it not from, I love to fix cars, but I love to make money. Okay. And some of the young people, so the outsiders and the young people are really doing, in my opinion and then the established.
Carm Capriotto: Strugglers are closed to new ideas and support and all these great things that we've talked about here on this episode. So maybe you're listening and you're one of those closed minded, stubborn people that have said, you know, this is how I do it. I can't work for anyone else but me, and this is what I'm going to be stuck in.
Carm Capriotto: And then that day comes that says I need to get out. Mama is driving me nuts. My significant other is saying, you got to retire, slow down. You know, we've got to buy an RV. We got to travel. We got to go see the grandkids. You've heard all the stories before, right? And then they stopped to think that they need five years to fix the problem that they have built.
Carm Capriotto: That doesn't mean they have anything to sell my passion in doing what I do to advance the automotive service repair business and to motivate some of that mid range struggle. To hot new heights by saying, damn it. Wayne was right. Wow. Ryan is hit me up top. Fred made so much sense. I got to do this. And that's all we hope for each and every episode.
Carm Capriotto: I love this. We've got to do a part two because we didn't cover, we cover good stuff, but nowhere near what I think are things we have to pay attention to in this great correction that we're in. So bring your common sense and your intuition to everything that's going on in your business. Listen to what this great team of Wayne Marshall, Ryan Daly, and Fred. You all coaches with the Institute and do something about it.
Carm Capriotto: Hey guys, thanks so much for being here.
Wayne Marshall: It was an honor. It's a pleasure.
Carm Capriotto: Thanks guys.
Fred Hules II: Thanks for having us.

Thursday Mar 27, 2025
Thursday Mar 27, 2025
109 - Collaboration Over Competition: Working With Your Spouse and Not Killing Them! With Juliana Sih
November 14th, 2024 - 00:49:08
Show Summary:
Join Juliana Sih, licensed therapist and life coach, as she leads this insightful webinar designed for shop owners and their business partners or spouses. As the founder of Crescendo Coaching, Juliana specializes in helping partnerships thrive both in business and in life. With her expertise, she’ll share proven strategies for balancing the dynamics of work and personal life, fostering clear communication, and managing the unique stresses that come with running a business together. Perfect for those looking to strengthen both their business and personal relationships, this session offers valuable tools to help you grow together, not apart.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Guest(s):
Juliana Sih, founder of Crescendo
Episode Highlights:
[00:01:00] - Coaching is essential for business owners - just like pro athletes, support is needed to thrive.
[00:03:23] - Couples in the automotive industry face unique challenges that require communication and balance.
[00:07:24] - Identifying your partner’s communication style can prevent misunderstandings and improve connection.
[00:12:01] - Active listening, including eye contact and emotional awareness, is a powerful antidote to conflict.
[00:15:09] - Conflict resolution is about managing emotions, creating mutual wins, and stepping away when needed.
[00:24:22] - Healthy boundaries, like designated business-free zones or asking permission, help protect relationships.
[00:34:16] - Keeping the love alive means investing in small daily gestures, shared goals, and appreciation.
[00:39:45] - Vacationing together offers valuable perspective and strengthens both the relationship and the business.
[00:41:12] - Prioritizing each other, especially in stressful times, contributes to personal and professional success.
[00:42:00] - Juliana offers a free 30-minute coaching session to help couples align in life and business.
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUkM-lFUPCU
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
Links & Resources:
Want to learn more? Click Here
Want a complimentary business health report? Click Here
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Want access to our online classes? Click Here
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Jimmy Lea: So excited to have you with us, Juliana. Thank you for being here.
Juliana Sih: Thank you for having me.
Jimmy Lea: Yes, we have had quite a few discussions in the past talking about shops, talking about business owners, talking about mental health, and this is something that's really big in the automotive industry that doesn't get a lot of attention.
Jimmy Lea: However, I think since COVID happened, there has been a tremendous amount of attention in mental health that it is getting its own finally. What are you seeing in your industry?
Juliana Sih: I truly believe that as well. I think people are more willing to get the support that they need to succeed. I like to think of A lot of coaching is like a pro athlete.
Juliana Sih: If you want to be a pro athlete, you need a coach, you need a chiropractor, you need a mindset coach, you need a weight trainer. And I think of it similarly, when you're building something bigger, a business and being married together, you're going to need some support.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes you also need that nutritionist.
Jimmy Lea: You also need that mentalist. You need that person in your corner to make sure you are in the right headspace. Now, not all of us can afford seven coaches or nine coaches to help us in our business, but we can definitely give attention to those that will help turn the needle the most business coaches.
Jimmy Lea: Ergo, the Institute, mental coaches, ergo, crescendo coaching.
Juliana Sih: Yes. Yes. And that's what we're going to be talking a lot about today is because some of the things that we need to implement into our life to have a better relationship, to have a better working relationship are just very simple things. But sometimes you need someone to remind you and you need that accountability.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's so true. The word remember. is so important. We've heard all this before. This is not any new revelation. Shazam. Hello. But remember, and if this is new information for you, make sure you connect with Juliana because she's awesome and she could do a lot of good for you and your business.
Jimmy Lea: But I think we've heard this and it's important for us to remember what we've heard before. And Juliana, thank you for putting a spotlight on this so we can remember.
Juliana Sih: Yes. I'm so happy to be talking about this. I'm really passionate about this topic. Couples who work together and are married because it's not easy.
Juliana Sih: Okay. Being married is already difficult. Let's just face it right. A few years in the honeymoon period is gone. And how do you keep that flame alive? How do you keep that love alive? I'm going to be talking exactly about that. But the one thing is I also really want to acknowledge. The people that are here today, because I think if you're here, that means you have a growth mindset.
Juliana Sih: You're ready for some change and you're ready to go. And that's what the Institute is all about.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. We are looking for change and we want to stand out. We want to be the company that stands out to you. We want our shops to be the shop that stands out in their market. By the way, that's our theme for summit.
Jimmy Lea: Those of you going to summit is to stand out. So Juliana, how can we stand out? How can we work together? How can we have that healthy relationship for couples that work together? And that's what we're going to talk about, right? Is couples on this one. We talked about business partners on part one.
Jimmy Lea: Here we are talking about couples that work together. So specifically to the Dave and Jeannie lights, the Dana and Julie. that work together. I'm trying to think of everybody else at Tim and Joanna.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: I mean, there's so many family businesses and that's the automotive industry. We are a family business.
Jimmy Lea: What does that look like?
Juliana Sih: And I think what sets those people apart is having a balanced approach to their life. Having those healthy boundaries, talking, communicating, because there are a lot of famous people out there like Barack Obama and Michelle, they work together and they haven't killed each other yet.
Juliana Sih: People like Jay Z and Beyonce, they work together and they have to figure it out because. Work can take over everything and people have different work styles and then you have to see them at home You can't just go away so it's really important to Have some strategies some tools some things to work through or some people to support you during those challenging times
Jimmy Lea: Oh, and I love that you say that support and I got to give a shout out to the Swifties out there Taylor Swift and Kelsey They support each other very well in their very demanding careers.
Juliana Sih: Yes, exactly. So I'm going to dive right in. Let me just make sure I can change my slide. So just a brief briefly about me. So my name is Juliana and I'm the founder of Crescendo, a boutique coaching firm. I've helped hundreds of people gain clarity and take meaningful action towards their goal.
Juliana Sih: My main. And the third thing is helping leaders find happiness, love, and wealth by overcoming personal roadblocks. We all have personal roadblocks that we have to work through and to, in order to be able to overcome our resistance and get to our fullest potential. So today we're going to be talking about kind of three main themes.
Juliana Sih: We're going to be talking about communication boundaries. I'm giving away a little freebie towards the end of the webinar, and then we'll go into any Q& A. I know we're kind of doing Q& A throughout the conversation today, but I'll have a little time to do Q& A slash contact info. So I believe that the bedrock.
Juliana Sih: Of a relationship is communication, right? There are other things that are really important, like respect and empathy and, you know, making sure your values are aligned, but without communication you really don't have much. There's going to be tension. There's going to be frustration. There's going to be anger.
Juliana Sih: And it's not only about the things that we say with our mouth. It's about like the nonverbal cues, our body language. Are you even paying attention to those things? Because those are really important as well. And what I love about communication is this is an area that you can really take control of things.
Juliana Sih: We can control how we communicate with others. We have control. If someone activates us or triggers us, we have control, how we respond to that other person. And. Let me tell you why I'm so passionate about this topic because I was a terrible communicator. So in my early mid twenties, I started dating this hot nerdy scientist and he was Italian.
Juliana Sih: He was a great cook, dressed well. I thought I had hit the jackpot, except there were a few key issues. One, we worked together, but I could, we couldn't tell anyone second we didn't want the same things. And third, I was a terrible communicator. So how did my terrible communication show up? It showed up as I would clam up anytime he wanted to talk about the relationship.
Juliana Sih: And I didn't think it was going to go the way that I wanted, or I thought I might hear something uncomfortable. I'd clam up. I wouldn't ask any questions. I had really poor listening skills because I was always having this mind chatter about how to defend myself. So the reason why I'm so passionate about this topic, not only today, but also with my clients is because I know what it's like to be there, to be a terrible communicator.
Juliana Sih: And I know What a shift you can make now. I'm not with this person anymore. We have ended our relationship. We had a long five years, which probably if I was a better communicator could have lasted probably two years. But I want to share some of the things that I learned along the way and also what I've learned through coaching.
Juliana Sih: So effective communication can start really simply something that I find really important is that our partners are going to have. And it's really important to identify our partner's communication style so that we can a anticipate their reactions. We can close communication gaps and we can respond in a way that resonates with them, right?
Juliana Sih: You probably all know this. Some people are direct. If they're direct, they might be blunt. They might get to the point, right. Versus an indirect person. They might be a little bit more diplomatic. You might need to read between the lines and you can see how there can be miscommunications between a direct and indirect person, right?
Juliana Sih: A direct person might be blunt and the indirect person might take that offensively and all of a sudden they can't communicate because of that. Or an assertive person, you know, an assertive person is direct, honest, straightforward. They might be a little aggressive or they might show a lot of emotion in the way of like anger, a passive person might need to create a little bit more safe space.
Juliana Sih: They might need more time to express. And if the assertive person just tries to fill in the silence for the passive person is just going to shut down. So I think one of the key things that is super simple that you can take on today is just determine your partner's communication style.
Juliana Sih: And I want to note that this is yes, for your partner, for your for your wife, husband, for when you work together, but this is also useful for your employees, for your family members, for your friends. So take A lot of the things that I share here is also for just how you communicate in general. So yeah, try to figure out your your partner's communication style and try to like match them a little bit more, try to change how you communicate.
Juliana Sih: So it resonates with the other person more, see if it makes any. Change.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Julian, I have a question and I love that you're bringing up communication and that you've also talked about being a good listener as well. I've seen a lot of I've seen a lot of what's the right way of saying this?
Jimmy Lea: I've seen a lot of advice that's been given that really focuses in on communication and teaching better people to communicate better, which has resulted in them. Actually being able to fight more viciously. And I think that's dangerous. I think it's important in our good communication to have a lot of listening.
Jimmy Lea: Are you going to go into a lot of listening here and empathy and what you're talking about as well?
Juliana Sih: Yes. Yes. But let me touch upon that since we're kind of already on that. When we're in a fighting mode.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Juliana Sih: We are in our when we're in conflict, we're in a fight or flight mode. That means our amygdala has taken over and it's literally like we're being chased by cheetah and we're trying to survive.
Juliana Sih: And so when we're in that type of conflict and we're fighting, we're not actually listening. We're not trying to resolve and come together. We are just literally trying to. Either win or get away from that person as quickly as possible or flee. We do, you know, fight, or flee are kind of like the three common ways that people do things.
Juliana Sih: And so if your communication style is fight and fight, unfortunately, it's not going to get anywhere. And then you start to erode the respect, you start to erode the empathy and those I know communication is a bedrock, but those are going to also start to collapse the foundation. So I don't believe like if you're angry, I think you need to be able to communicate what caused you to be angry what did they say exactly that caused you to be angry?
Juliana Sih: It's not to blame them because if you blame someone, they're going to go into defense. So it's about communicating what it is. That upset you. So I was hurt by what you said. I was hurt by the using the exact words. That's a way to start to a clarify what upset the person, but be also to dissipate the fight.
Juliana Sih: So I'll be going, I'll be going a little bit more into that. I have a specific section about conflict.
Jimmy Lea: Oh good. Yeah. I look forward to that one. Yes. Thank you.
Juliana Sih: So one of the antidotes to conflict, I believe, is active listening. So active listening is very different than listening.
Juliana Sih: Listening is kind of a passive process. We have two ears and one mouth for a reason, except that we forget that there's a yapper in our brain that is constantly chatting all the time that we sometimes don't really know how to shut off. And that's where active listening can come in, but active listening is really a practice.
Juliana Sih: It's kind of like an art. You need to be constantly cultivating it. There is also a science to it, but it's also, it's going to take practice. It's not a plug and play deal. So active listening is intentionally an engaged process where you fully concentrate on the speaker, understand their message, respond thoughtfully, and remember key points.
Juliana Sih: So here are kind of the ingredients to active listening. You need to be able to focus. You need to be present with the other person. You need to be making eye contact, not staring off into the distance. You need to be understanding what they're saying. How often have you talked to someone and you're nodding your head, but you have no idea what they're saying.
Juliana Sih: And you're just kind of going along with it. That is not active listening. You need to be asking clarifying questions or reiterating what they were saying to make sure you're understanding and that you're on the same page. You need to be giving feedback and responding thoughtfully, asking questions if you need clarifications, not just going along with the conversation just to be agreeable or not have to go more in depth.
Juliana Sih: You have to understand the emotion also, because oftentimes when we're talking, we're sharing an emotion and an active listener. Picks up on those cues, whether it's through body language or through, you know, little twitches in the eye, a little smile or a little frown. That's where the empathy comes in, is really putting yourself also in the other people's shoe.
Juliana Sih: And then of course, like I kind of mentioned the nonverbal cues. There is so much that is said in the nonverbal cues and it's really about paying attention to those things. Here are some examples. Of what listening, what is not active listening, right? If you're on your phone and you're talking to someone, yes, you may be able to multitask, but you are not active listening.
Juliana Sih: You are going to not be able to remember certain things that they said. And you're going to forget. And that means you weren't listening. It's not thinking about what to say next. How often are you talking to someone and you're thinking about, Ooh, how do I respond to this? How can I be right? How can I win up this person?
Juliana Sih: I don't agree with them and have a whole narrative around that. That is not active listening. Active listening requires a quiet mind, active. Active list. When you're not listening. You're also getting distracted by the bird outside or by some person that walks by or you're thinking about your to do list your grocery list.
Juliana Sih: So all those things are not active listening. They will not help you. It really requires focus and attention and understanding what they're saying or not saying.
Juliana Sih: So talking about conflict, right? Conflict is happens when there's a difference in opinions. And this is very common when you work together and are married, isn't it? Because not only are there. We all have different ways that we would do the same thing. And sometimes we just can't get over the hump and get on the same page, right?
Juliana Sih: We're like, no, my way's better this, you know, your way's wrong. And you end up in a fight or you end up resigned and frustrated, right? Because you're just. you're not upset that the other person just like bullied over you or something like that. So when, whenever there's conflict, there's some really easy, simple tactics that you can do, right.
Juliana Sih: Create a win for both people. If you create a win both for yourself and for the other person, then there doesn't have to be any competition or any defense like going into defense mode. They we don't have to go into a fight or flight or freeze. So practice creating a win. What that can look like is Let's I'm trying to think of an example of a win in a situation.
Juliana Sih: Let's say I want to go to the bakery on a Saturday morning and my husband wants to go to The ice cream shop so a win would be maybe stopping by both or a win would be you know getting something at the bakery shop that my husband also wants. So this, I know this is like a kind of a petty example, but create a win in any situation, and I guarantee you that there will be less conflict.
Juliana Sih: Another thing is when there's conflict, it is your responsibility as an individual to manage your emotions, right? Mastering your emotions is very, it's challenging. It's not hard, but it's challenging because we have a lot of automatic ways that we are, and they're very subconscious. So, but you have to learn how to manage your emotions.
Juliana Sih: So if you know that in conflict, you get angry or you freeze, you got to start working through that in the moment. You don't want that to have power over you, right? Because then all of a sudden the other person can snap you into a mood that you don't even want to. So learn to manage your emotions through self awareness, through meditative practices, through coaching, through a therapist, through getting those support things to really understand why you're getting triggered for the things you're getting triggered on.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you might have to go for a walk around the block a time or two or three or four until you do calm down because that fight or flight, you're just seeing red. Recognize it and say, okay, hold on. I'm taking a page out of Julianna's book here. I need to go for a walk. I need to meditate.
Jimmy Lea: I need to breathe because I don't want to get angry. I don't want to get upset.
Juliana Sih: Yes. Maybe I need to go for a drive. One I'll share one of my favorite practices when I'm in conflict and I'm angry. I will leave, I'll go for a drive and I'll listen to like a song that I know will activate my anger and I'll just scream in my car.
Juliana Sih: I'll do something that I know is not going to hurt me or hurt the other person. And that can look like, that's how I process the emotion in the moment.
Juliana Sih: Okay. That works.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. It really does. It can work with sadness. Also, if you need to process sadness, agree on some next step, some action step, right? If you can kind of move away from the conflict and agree on what's next, that can help dissipate the conflict as well.
Juliana Sih: Active listening is a great way to dissipate conflict as well. Start to listen, reflect back what you hear, make sure you're on the same page. And I think one of the most important things is to be willing to forgive. I'm sorry, I'm having a bit of a
Jimmy Lea: You're fine. Take a drink or get a cough dropper or something.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I agree. Having those next steps already laid out in front of you or agreeing to them ahead of time so that you can talk about next steps, that goes a long way to help the relationship to know there's a light at the end of the tunnel. We just need to keep heading towards the light. That will help a lot.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, one of the things that I created with one of my clients is Whenever they get into a conflict and both of them are activated. We created a practice where One of the people leaves the other person already knows that they're going to leave and they go for a walk around the block or they just take 10 15 minutes to calm down for both of them to calm down.
Juliana Sih: But they already created action for when they're in conflict. And I think this is a really good strategy so that you're not just going to that fight all the time type of thing. But you really have an intentional step like, Hey, if we get into an argument. I am going to step away and I'm going to take 10 minutes.
Juliana Sih: I'll put a timer and I'm going to take a little break, go around the block and we'll come back and resolve this.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's really healthy. That's awesome.
Juliana Sih: And then I'll talk a little bit more about that in boundaries, but I think the last thing it'll also is be willing to forgive, be willing to forgive both yourself.
Juliana Sih: If you get into a conflict, but also be willing to forgive the other person. I like to use this little rule of like, is this going to matter in five hours, five days? Is it really that important that I need to be holding on and stewing about it for hours and hours? That is an energy zap. That is not going to serve you or the people around you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Juliana Sih: So here are some next steps because I really want to be tactical and I want to be able to give you something that you can implement right away. So this is a piece of active listening. So go practice this with your partner. Go practice this with a friend, pick someone that you can practice this with.
Juliana Sih: I would say do it with your partner. So practice listening fully to the speaker. Reflect back what you hear, use the words that they say, Oh, so you, I'm hearing that you said you want to go to dinner tonight. Is that, am I hearing that accurately? Ask open ended questions, usually questions that start with what, not yes or no questions like, did you do that?
Juliana Sih: Or is this what you did? Those are yes or no questions. Practice asking open ended questions. And then also validate their feelings. If they're upset, say, Hey I hear you. I hear you're angry. And that can, I mean, we all just want to be heard and seen. And once we can be heard and seen, we can feel safe and we can open up and we can kind of move beyond the conflict.
Juliana Sih: So there's a practice for y'all to try out that you can try immediately.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So I have a question for you and maybe a lot of Other people have the same question. Validating their feelings. Help me out with that. Because sometimes I might feel like what they're saying is not...
Juliana Sih: they're overreacting or....
Jimmy Lea: yeah, maybe it's not realistic. But it's That's not the point there, right? Go how can we validate feelings, even though you might disagree with what they're expressing?
Juliana Sih: Yeah. Validating feelings is really just something small and simple. It starts with just recognizing that they're having their own experience.
Juliana Sih: The other person is having their own experience and that's okay. It's not your responsibility to change how they feel, right? But it might just be a simple validating their feeling is like, Oh, I noticed you're feeling angry about this. Right. Just seeing them. It's part of that empathy as well is just saying and seeing what you hear.
Juliana Sih: So if You bring up a topic and let's say your wife seems kind of like defensive about it. It might just be like, Oh this conversation that I just brought up, I noticed it's bringing up some defensiveness, you know, what's going on, what is it that I said? So it's not about like, Oh, let's go deep into talking about your emotions and why you're feeling this way.
Juliana Sih: It's just about seeing it and having them know that you see it and it's okay.
Jimmy Lea: Cool. I like it.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. All right. Let's talk about boundaries because boundaries is such an important topic and a lot of people don't know where to start and healthy boundaries help protect the individual's well being and nurture balance and nurture a balanced supportive relationship.
Juliana Sih: So, you know, I think that people that work together.
Juliana Sih: It's not like you can just leave work and you don't see that person anymore. You have to go home now with them, and you know, creating healthy boundaries is simple, but it takes a lot of practice because your spouse and your partner, they're used to you a certain way. So when you start to say no to things, they might not like that.
Juliana Sih: They might be like, whoa, what's going on? But that's okay.
Jimmy Lea: Why are you saying no to me?
Juliana Sih: Yeah. How dare you? Exactly. But that's where communication can come in. Like, Hey honey, I'm, you know, I don't want to hang out with you after work because Hey, I want to go do my exercise class. It's not that I don't want to be with you.
Juliana Sih: It's about, you know, it's about this and this. So healthy boundaries is really about like you. Taking care of you in service of filling your cup so that it spills over into the relationship. So if I just go back to like that example of the hot nerdy scientist, I was dating, we had like, we didn't have good boundaries.
Juliana Sih: We worked together. Couldn't tell anyone. We didn't want the same thing. And that ended up not having any boundaries ended up breaking our relationship because I started to become resentful. Like, so we weren't. We weren't girlfriend, boyfriend, and I, it was less about the title, but to me, it was more about just like, are we going to be monogamous?
Juliana Sih: Are you going to be dating other people? I was scared to talk about that. So I couldn't create that boundary for me. And when we begin to lose our boundary or we keep letting people cross our boundary. And so we become resentful in the process, we become frustrated. We start to close down and we start to not want to connect with the other person because we may feel like they're taking too much from us or they don't respect us.
Juliana Sih: Or, you know, some other narrative like that. So I believe healthy boundaries is really important. And I wanted to give some real life examples of what healthy boundaries could look like for you. Now, these are just some examples. They're not the end all be all, but start learning to say no. And this can be at work also.
Juliana Sih: Let's say your partner is telling you to do something that actually they should be telling their service advisor to be doing. You can say, no, like, Hey, why don't you go communicate? Why don't you go talk to the service advisor? This would be best for them to do. And I think a lot of healthy boundaries when it comes to working together and being married is knowing what roles.
Juliana Sih: You're doing clearly like person, a person B does this, because when it starts to overlap and people step to start to step on each other's toe, people don't like that. Think about that. Even at a regular job, not married and working together, like you don't want someone else to be doing your job and then maybe taking credit or.
Juliana Sih: So make sure when you work when you work together, have clear, very clear job descriptions for each person. Know what each person's doing. It doesn't mean you can't help each other out if you need help, but having those clear descriptions will help people keep them in the right lane and not overlap.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I've got some real life examples too.
Juliana Sih: Ooh, yes, let's hear it.
Jimmy Lea: So, Dana and Julie, they work together and they would drive home and the agreement was that once we pass over this freeway. We're now home. We're now a married couple. We're not business partners anymore. So they would they, there were times that they would have, they would get to the freeway and say, Okay, wait a second.
Jimmy Lea: This conversation is pretty deep. Do we need to pull over? And they would pull over in the parking lot and finish that conversation. It could be another five minutes, 20 minutes. Half an hour, 45, it could be an hour, it could be two hours, but that's okay. What you're, what they were doing was respecting those boundaries that said, here is the line that says, nope, we're not going to talk past this point about business.
Jimmy Lea: They would still talk as a couple. They would have those conversations as. As you would at home, but I always found that interesting that they would draw that line that this is the road that we stop talking, we stop having these conversations. I think of Chris and Tammy as well. They have a landmark that becomes the business stops here, Mark.
Jimmy Lea: And they don't talk about business until they cross that freeway again, or pass that landmark again, coming back towards the shop.
Juliana Sih: I think that is a beautiful example. And each person also has to be willing to honor it, right? Pull over if you really need to talk about it. Sometimes it becomes difficult to start these new boundaries because you're so used to the past five, 10 years, you've just been talking about work, home, all the.
Juliana Sih: And now it's time, now maybe it's time to make that change and make that, you know, draw that line in the sand. And create that boundary so that you can get to the next level of your relationship. And it does take discipline. It takes practice.
Jimmy Lea: It does. And I'll tell you another thing that Dana and Julie would use is asking permission.
Jimmy Lea: So after they cross the freeway and they're, they are at home, cause our brains are constantly going. We're constantly thinking about the business. What can we do? How can we make it better? How can we market it better? How can we increase proficiencies and the effectiveness of the shop? They would ask permission to bring up a business topic.
Jimmy Lea: And there were times where they would say, the partner would say no. I no I can't, or yes, you've got five minutes go, or no can write down your ideas. I want to hear them, but today I'm done. I'm done. I'm mentally exhausted. I'm done. But write it down and we can talk about it tomorrow once we pass the freeway.
Jimmy Lea: Asking permission was a beautiful thing that I really appreciated. And I just had another idea of a time period. It's after six o'clock. We don't talk business because there's, there are people out there in the world today that are working remote and husband and wife are together at home all the time.
Jimmy Lea: They're constantly doing work. But there has to be a time period. And maybe it's a time that says that six o'clock or at seven o'clock or at eight o'clock, that's where business stops. And we, as a couple step in and we can talk about our relationship.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. Yeah. Those are some really good real life example of healthy boundaries.
Juliana Sih: And I think what's important for couples is to really experiment, right? Like maybe the line in the road is not their thing, but maybe having that permission is what they need. And it's just about experimenting, like start saying no, maybe start hanging out with different friend groups. Right. Because I know when you're married and work together, your friends can all conglomerate and.
Juliana Sih: And you don't have those separate friends group, but really try things out because I like to think of everything is kind of like trial and error, right? The only guarantee thing is like doing the same thing over and over is insanity. So if something is not working or you want something to shift, just try different things.
Juliana Sih: And keep in mind that the first thing you try out might not work. But the next thing you try out, maybe it's a little better. And the next thing might be a little bit better. So try out different healthy boundaries, right? Maybe it's pursue separate passions. I know so many people that one of them is artsy, but they don't have the time, or they feel like they need to hang out their husband, but they don't go pursue that artsy thing.
Juliana Sih: And the other one is like an adventure and they want to go like skydiving or something, go pursue those separate passions. And then when you come together, you'll have something different to talk about. Not about work, not about things at home and then, yeah, have that personal time free of work discussions, that clear boundary where you just say, Hey, actually, I don't want to talk about work at 5am in the morning.
Juliana Sih: I want to talk about work at 9am. Make that clear boundary and make sure you adhere to it. Right. Because, well, I don't want to compare married couples to a child, but you know, when a child, you let them do you, you let them get away with a few things. Well, they know exactly what they can get away with. And we're the same way as adults.
Juliana Sih: We know what we can get away with. So be clear on your boundary and be disciplined enough to uphold the boundary because you will get the results that you want if you uphold to it.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. That's why the bovine cows, they always go around the edge of the field because they're always testing that boundary.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Interesting.
Juliana Sih: So here's a practice for you to take on right away discuss one boundary you'd like to set that could improve your relationship and reduce stress. So this is an exercise you can do with your partner in the car, in the shop, wherever you are, just start to discuss one thing that could improve your relationship.
Juliana Sih: And then of course, go take action and implement it because all these things are all valuable information, but it doesn't become wisdom unless you implement and take action on it.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, well, let's do this, Julianna. You've got suggestions that you're going to go through, and I'm going to encourage everybody to type into the Q& A, type in the Q& A what it is that you are going to implement.
Jimmy Lea: So pick one and try it. So, Juliana, you've got some ideas here. Everybody needs to pick one and type it into the Q& A. It only comes to us. We're the only ones that are going to be able to see it. You'll be confidential. We're not going to shout out your deepest, darkest secrets here, but what is that one thing that you're looking at that you're saying, Oh, you know what?
Jimmy Lea: I'm going to try that.
Juliana Sih: Yes. Yes.
Juliana Sih: All right, let's pivot a little bit and talk about how to keep the love alive, keeping the romance alive, how to stay in love, because we're, it's not enough to be together all the time. You already know that you work together, you're at home, you're married. Also, it's not enough to just spend time together.
Juliana Sih: I like to think of keeping the romance alive as a, like a fire, right? What does a fire need? It needs oxygen. It can't be smothered. It needs wood, needs material, new material coming in. If it's raining, it needs to be covered. If not, the fire goes out. And that is very similar to what a relationship is like.
Juliana Sih: I think we take for granted that like, oh, we spend a lot of time together and that's enough, but no, there needs to be a little bit, something more. So it's not an. Oftentimes we think of it as big things, right? Like we're going to go on this big vacation and spend a lot of time together. But I like to think of keeping the romance alive as like the little things.
Juliana Sih: So I'm going to share some really simple things that you can take on right away that can keep the love alive. One of those things is like a simple daily gratitude practice where you share with the other person, just one thing that you appreciate about them. At life and also in work, I think it's easy to, for us to focus in one area.
Juliana Sih: And I think we need to really acknowledge the other person in both areas. And so this can be a simple daily practice.
Jimmy Lea: So it's one thing in personal and one thing in the professional every day. Do we do this at the beginning of the day, end of the day, after the work day, after dinner, supper? What are you seeing?
Juliana Sih: I think it could be whatever works for the couple. Like, it could be spontaneous, like, you know, you do something at home that was really kind and generous for the family. Thank you for that. It could be like at the end of the day, you sit together and you create a ritual around it. And maybe you sit in bed and you hold each other's hand and look at each other in the eyes and then you say one thing.
Juliana Sih: I think this is really where you get to personalize and figure out what works for you. But just showing appreciation for the other person. I think when we spend a lot of time together with people, we start to take them for granted and we just expect them to be, do all the things that they've always done.
Juliana Sih: And we don't take a moment to actually like thank them for who they are.
Jimmy Lea: I love that. That's my one. I'm going to type that in the Q and a that's my one.
Juliana Sih: Nice.
Jimmy Lea: Daily, one personal, one professional. I love that one. Thank you.
Juliana Sih: Small gestures, right? It's all about the small things. We're talking about small things.
Juliana Sih: We're not talking about like the big grand vacation that you're going to go on for a month. I'm talking about small things. Holding the door open depends. This is all customizable to you and your spouse. A thoughtful gift. You went out into the world, you found a small shop and you found a small gift for your partner.
Juliana Sih: Go buy it. Saying I love you. I love you. I appreciate you. Thank you for cooking for me. Thank you for doing the PNL for me. Thank you for all the cars that you worked on this month. Thank you for dealing with that difficult tech. So just acknowledging and. Doing little small gestures like that.
Juliana Sih: I know I went in a lot into the gratitude practice, but I feel like these are all just kind of small gestures that I like to think of it as a piggy bank, right? You're just putting coins into a piggy bank and that's the piggy bank of love. And the more coins that you can put into the piggy bank of love, whether it's holding a door, whether it's a thoughtful gift, whether it's saying, I love you.
Juliana Sih: The piggy bank is going to get more and more full.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's true. And I'm going to go to my go tos unloading the dishwasher, loading the dishwasher, taking out the trash. These are the small things that, that I do to say I love you.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: And vacuuming. I love vacuuming, by the way.
Juliana Sih: We're learning a lot about you, Jimmy. We like vacuuming, unloading the dishwasher. I love it.
Jimmy Lea: Well, I don't necessarily like unloading and loading, but I do like vacuuming.
Juliana Sih: Yes.
Juliana Sih: Nice. I think something that's really important is having shared goals and values and not only at work, but also in life having personal projects, right?
Juliana Sih: So one of the pitfalls of that hot nerdy scientist that I was dating is that we did not have a shared vision or goal. A, I was too afraid to articulate my goals, what I wanted. I wanted to be in a Mormon August relationship that was leading to marriage, kids, all the things. And I don't think that's what I, well, I know that's not what he wanted because it didn't, he didn't act that way, but so having a shared vision, right?
Juliana Sih: Making sure that you guys are on the same page about how many shops you want to own or what country you want to visit next or what needs to be done at the house, have personal projects that you both are working on that. you can do together so that you guys are building something together, and it's not only work related.
Juliana Sih: Have personal projects also.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. One of the items that was given to me as advice when I got married was always have a trip on the books. Something you're looking forward to, and it could be one of those, one big trip a year. So you've got something to look forward to. We discovered we really like cruising.
Jimmy Lea: We really like Disneyland, Disney World. So our next trip that we're doing is a trip to Florida. We're at the summit, but we're also going to extend and go to Universal Studios.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, I think that's amazing. And a lot of the shop owners that I've worked with love vacationing. And I think that's a great place to also practice letting go and trusting your service advisor, trusting your texts that they've also got it.
Juliana Sih: And then you get an opportunity to figure out like, what are the gaps? While I was gone, what did they call me for? What do I need to improve? So when I leave there. Everything is taken care of, and I can go on my vacation.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Juliana Sih: And if you don't think you have the money or time to go, I guarantee that you need to go on that vacation to spend some more time with your loved one, and to be able to get away and get that perspective.
Juliana Sih: Because when you're, like, in the weeds, working, married together in the weeds, it can become daunting. So take that time to, to get out, get that perspective. You're going to learn a lot about the shop, what it needs in the meantime, and also you'll get to feel more connected to your spouse or partner.
Jimmy Lea: Love it.
Juliana Sih: And I think. One of the last things is just prioritize each other with all the mundane stuff with the housework and the stuff going on at work, it's really easy to just prioritize house work, getting the dishes done, whatever it might be. But always prioritize each other's happiness, even during those stressful times, I think during the stressful times is definitely the most difficult.
Juliana Sih: And that's when you need it the most. That's the example that I was sharing. Like if things are stressful, go on that vacation. Because when you prioritize each other, then you spend time connecting. And when you are connected with your spouse in a deeper, more meaningful way, the business is going to do better.
Juliana Sih: I do not know any business couples that work together where if when their connection was better, like the business got first. So invest time in each other and prioritize each other.
Jimmy Lea: Something my sister does. She has seven children, by the way, her and her husband take date night and date night is Thursday night.
Jimmy Lea: It's not a weekend, Friday or Saturday that with all the kids, so many different activities that are happening and going on. So, I take a page out of their book that says, I applaud you for having a date night on a Thursday. And it's just a time where she and her husband go out and it's just them time.
Jimmy Lea: Even if all they do is go to dinner and sit in the booth and talk for three hours, it's their date night, Thursday night.
Juliana Sih: Yes. Pick a day, go on a date your husband and wife as if you're courting them and you'll fall more and more in love with them and keep that flame alive.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Date your significant other date. You plus one.
Juliana Sih: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's cool. Yep.
Juliana Sih: All right. We're starting to wrap up now. If you are ready for a shift, if you want some support, I am giving away a free gift today. I'm giving away a 30 minute one to one coaching session to really help each and every one of you. And you on getting to your next level in your business and in your relationship, because I truly believe that we all get in our own ways and sometimes we can't see it.
Juliana Sih: We got blind spots. So I'm offering everyone here a 30 minute session. Use this QR code, just use your phone. And you'll go directly to my Calendly and you can schedule a call. I'm excited to have one to ones with some of the people here.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Everybody needs to do that and you need to do it now.
Jimmy Lea: We'll wait
Jimmy Lea: a few more minutes. No, go back. They need a few more seconds. Hold on. Or we need that slide, that QR code on the next slide as well. Okay. Did everybody get it? Everybody good? Okay. Okay. Now here we go.
Juliana Sih: All right. I want to leave you with this quote. A great relationship doesn't happen because the love you had at the beginning, but how well you continue that love until the end, make sure you put some wood in the fire, make sure you cover it from the rain, make sure you nurture it. Cause that's how great relationships last.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, take a picture of that. That's Juliana's information. Is that your cell phone? Yeah. Your work phone?
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Everybody needs to connect with Juliana. Thank you. Thank you for the information. Thank you for sharing. This has been such a powerful tool. Mental health is so important. Couples working together is so important. And being in love. Love isn't enough. You've got to do more there. It's a daily activity like you were saying, we're talking about the small gestures, talking about saying thank you.
Jimmy Lea: It's a choice. It's a choice you're going to make if you're going to stay in love or not and continue to build that fire, fuel that fire, fan that fire, because it does take oxygen fuel and shield it, protect it, protect your relationship. Because that's what's most important is the people that are around you.
Juliana Sih: Yeah, and have fun with it too. I remember one of my friends, he also actually works with his wife also, but one for one year, he had a journal and he wrote one thing that he appreciated about his wife every day. And a year from that day, maybe on her birthday, I don't remember the exact event on their anniversary.
Juliana Sih: He gave her this book that had a memory of like all the things he was thankful for throughout the year. So get creative, go have fun. This is like. An opportunity to like, I mean, bring the zest and bring the life into, bring the life force into the relationship through creativity.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. And that's 365 different thank yous.
Jimmy Lea: that have happened all throughout the entire year. That is going to be a phenomenal book for somebody to read.
Juliana Sih: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: And they will love it. They will love it. Very cool. Juliana, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for the the information, the discussion. This has been phenomenal. Thank you for being a coach, for listening to people, listening to couples as, and especially thank you for focusing on the automotive industry.
Jimmy Lea: We, we need it. And there's not a lot of people in the automotive industry that are going to stand up and say, Hey, we need this.
Juliana Sih: Yeah. I'm so honored to be here, Jimmy. I have fun every time with you and the Institute. So thank you for having me.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, you're very welcome and thank you for being here. And speaking of the Institute and our Candyland coaching map, do you see the map now, Juliana?
Jimmy Lea: Yes. So those of you who are on here, if you aren't getting this type of information from your coaching company, first of all why not? Second of all, we'd love to have you with us at the Institute. There might be a journey that we go on together. Excuse me, it's contagious. We have coaching for shop owners, for managers, for advisors.
Jimmy Lea: We're here to meet you where you are and take you to that next level. So go ahead and scan this QR code. This QR code will Set up an appointment with the Institute and no cost to you. We'll give you a quick business analysis, a quick business assessment of your business and what it looks like, and possibly even some of those areas that we can help you to improve your business and take it to the next level.
Jimmy Lea: My name is Jimmy Lee. Thank you very much. Been great to spend time with you today. My friends, always a pleasure. You guys are awesome. Thank you so much. And Juliana, thank you as well.
Juliana Sih: Thank you for having me.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, you're so welcome. Let's connect. This is my email. This is my cell phone number. Let's connect and take your business to the next level.
Jimmy Lea: So you can help take care of your spouse, your family. And guess what? This goes further than that because it is all about building a better business, a better life and a better industry. You are going to help your technicians, your service advisors, their families, their mortgages, their relationships.
Jimmy Lea: Let's take it all up to that next level so that we're helping our industry to be the best it can possibly be. With that, I'm Jimmy Lee. Thank you very much. Talk to you soon.