The Institute’s Leading Edge Podcast

171 - The Leading Edge Podcast: Standing at the Crossroads featuring Carl Hutchinson, Complete Automotive

171 - The Leading Edge Podcast: Standing at the Crossroads featuring Carl Hutchinson, Complete Automotive
November 20, 2025 - 01:42:21
 
Show Summary:
From technician to multi-shop owner, Carl Hutchinson of Complete Automotive in Missouri shares how he built a thriving, people-first business rooted in ethics, mentorship, and accountability. A Master ASE and AMI-certified professional, Carl opens up about the real leadership lessons behind sustainable growth and strong shop culture. Hear how hiring for attitude, creating apprenticeship opportunities, and balancing KPIs with team wellbeing helped Carl grow a high-performance shop that values learning and integrity. Standing at the Crossroads with Carl Hutchinson reveals how purpose-driven leadership can reshape the future of the automotive repair industry. Want help building your legacy and a people-first shop culture? Meet with Michael Smith for a leadership and legacy strategy session. Book here: https://theinstitute.zohobookings.com/#/Executive-Owner-Strategy-Session 
 
Host(s):
Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute
Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute
 
Guest(s):
Carl Hutchinson, Owner of Complete Automotive
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:00] – Kent introduces the Crossroads series and welcomes Carl Hutchinson, laying out his background and values.[00:01:50] – Carl shares how growing up around “basket projects” sparked his love for problem solving and automotive work.[00:03:31] – He explains why relationships, consistency, and decades-long customer loyalty kept him rooted in the industry.[00:06:01] – Carl describes being unknowingly groomed for ownership and the moment he realized he couldn’t stay under unethical leadership.[00:10:09] – A chance phone call leads Carl to the business he eventually buys, launching the next chapter of his career.[00:14:46] – Michael breaks down why accountability doesn’t start with pressure but with responsibility and authority.[00:20:04] – Carl opens up about losing people in the cultural shift and the surprising ones who chose not to grow.[00:28:24] – The group dives into how failure becomes a learning curve for people who choose mastery over comfort.[00:40:23] – Carl shares how hiring now includes deeper questions about passions, hobbies, and cognitive flexibility.[01:32:33] – In a powerful close, Carl defines the legacy he hopes to leave behind for his team and his industry.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Kent Bullard: Welcome to the Institute's Leading Edge, the Crossroads podcast where we examine the crucial decisions that professionals make that define careers, that shape industries that inspire thought leadership and that build lasting legacies. I'm Ken Bullard and I'm joined with my colleague Michael Smith.
Kent Bullard: And today we have the pleasure of interviewing with Carl Hutchinson, the owner of Complete Automotive out of Missouri. Our guest today is a seasoned automotive professional with both a MI and a master a SE technician certification with an extensive experience as a service advisor beyond his technical expertise.
Kent Bullard: He's a dedicated family man celebrating 40 years of marriage with his wife Maureen, and a proud father of three children. With a passion for scuba diving, spearfishing, and spending time at the lake, he finds joy in both adventure and travel and guided by his favorite saying, just because he can doesn't mean you should.
Kent Bullard: He brings wisdom and a thoughtful approach to every endeavor. A committed Christian, he's been honored with the Vision Humanitarian Award, and the Small Business of the Year Award, reflecting his dedication to his community and industry. Above all, he cherishes his role as a husband, calling his wife Maureen, his best friend and greatest support.
Kent Bullard: We're excited to dive into his journey, insights, and the values that have guided his success. Welcome Carl to the Institute's Leading Edge Crossroads podcast. Welcome, carl.
Carl Hutchinson: Thank you. That's quite our introduction. I'd like to meet this guy.
Kent Bullard: Just look in the mirror, man. Look in the mirror.
Michael Smith: We're glad we did. Yeah.
Kent Bullard: So I'd love to start off with we always start off with the same question. You know, what originally drew you into the industry, but most importantly, what made you commit to it?
Carl Hutchinson: Oh that's pretty in depth. What drew me to the industry was just kind of growing up in it, you know, like the short story is my stepfather was a technician and mechanic.
Carl Hutchinson: He didn't do it professionally af especially after I came along. But he still had that passion and I can remember many projects that he would buy and bring home. They were basket projects, something that somebody had taken apart and couldn't put back together. So he would bring them home and put them together and make them work.
Carl Hutchinson: And it's just kind of inspired us to, to be in, in that. And not having a lot of means, we'll put it that way. We did without a lot. So if we wanted something, it was usually a basket project. If we wanted a motorcycle or a lawnmower or whatever, we usually wound up buying something that needed to be put together.
Carl Hutchinson: And so that's how it kind of got started. And then I think my love of it was the projects, you know, just every day, honestly, two or three times a day, the projects change. So just being in the industry, you had multiple different projects and it was all problem solving. And you know, if you could make somebody's day by taking something that was broken or didn't work correctly and put it back together, put it, make it work, and they didn't have to go buy something new, I think that's really where it all started.
Carl Hutchinson: I guess what kept me in it, that's a totally different thing because I've tried to get out of this industry several times and I think this industry has teeth. Once you're in it and you're ingrained into it there's a huge draw to it, but there's also a huge security to this industry that, you know, the 40 years that I've been in it now I've pretty much always had a job.
Carl Hutchinson: I've always. Had security. I've always been in a relatively decent position of making money and having insurance and days off and vacations and things of that nature to where I've seen a lot of people around us. In other industries they don't have that. And especially when COVID hit, it was like, well, our industry was blessed and, you know, we had a job.
Carl Hutchinson: We didn't have to worry about, you know, staying home. And I mean, I guess that's what kept me in it is once you're in it and you understand it, and you have a little bit of a passion for, I don't wanna say just the automotive portion of it, but it's the people in the automotive portion of it, it's a steady customers that come through.
Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, just this past, oh, two weeks, I've had two. 30 year customers come through our doors. And to see them to know that I, as a technician worked on their car 30 years ago and they're still with us through all these years is that's fantastic to see that. So I think that's what keeps me in it more than anything is is the people of it, you know, just having that ability to make somebody's life and honestly change somebody's life in it or make it for the better, just have a part of it.
Carl Hutchinson: So that long answer to a short question, I guess,
Kent Bullard: Carl, was there a specific moment where you had to make the decision or where you made the decision Oh, ly, that this was where you're gonna stay?
Carl Hutchinson: Oh, absolutely. So this is how ignorant I was being in this industry. You know, I didn't realize I was being groomed.
Carl Hutchinson: To purchase the business that I was in. I actually worked for a good friend of mine for many years, and he was the owner of the business and he was grooming me to, to buy it. And I had no idea, you know, just I hate to say I'm using those same tactics on our employees now as we go along, just, you know, advance 'em along, give them a little more, and but I was being groomed.
Carl Hutchinson: And one day he came to me and he says would you like to own this business? And I thought, oh heck no. No way. Why would I wanna own this business? I mean, I'm very happy with the idea of, I, you know, I show up early in the morning, do my thing all day long, lock the door at night and go home. And I'm pretty happy.
Carl Hutchinson: And at that point in time. I thought I was actually going to get out of the industry. I had a passion to, to be in the home industry and building homes and things of that nature, and we were doing some of that on the side. Well, that was 2005, 2006, 2007, all in those years. And he sold the business to somebody that I could not work for.
Carl Hutchinson: And I didn't think that there was people out there that I could not work for, and I just, I could not work for this gentleman. The ethics, the they were not my ethics. The morals were not my morals, that the culture changed overnight and it really sucked. So at that point in time, I had to make a decision.
Carl Hutchinson: I either have to change industries. Or I've gotta figure this out. Well, by this time it's 2007 in the the sections there. And the housing industry comes to a stre and halt. And all of my dreams that I thought I had were just gone. And I found myself in an ultimatum that I can't work for somebody.
Carl Hutchinson: And so I went to this new owner and gave him an ultimatum. And then again, this is how ignorant I am. You know, when you're not the boss, you don't give the boss an ultimatum. Because the boss, I couldn't leave. So, so I found myself having to stand my ground and I had to leave which was the right thing to do.
Carl Hutchinson: So, 2008, I didn't realize that jobs were not available. And, you know, I wound up going to work for another competitor, which was a good and bad thing. I realized there was somebody else that I could not work for, but he taught me a lot. He taught me a lot of things I didn't know, and I thought I knew a lot, but he taught me a lot.
Carl Hutchinson: But I guess to, to answer the question, that's when I had to make the decision is right then is when I realized I could not work for somebody else. That the way that I had been brought up in this industry and the way that I wanted to operate a business and was not allowed to anymore. The only way to do it was to work for ourselves.
Carl Hutchinson: And the funny story is I was I was really looking for a job I needed to get out of where I was at. It was such a bad place, such a toxic place that I had to get out of there. And my mental and physical whole world was crashing. So I was just dialing everybody that I had in my index, anybody that I knew that was in the automotive world, I said, look, I'm looking for a job.
Carl Hutchinson: I'm looking for a job. I'm looking for a job. I gotta get outta where I'm at. I'll be a technician again. I'll do anything. I gotta get my head cleared. And this one guy that I called, he says, well, there's no jobs here. Oh. So the one and only time that I'd ever said this was I'm looking for a job or a business to buy.
Carl Hutchinson: I only said it once. He said, there's no jobs here, but I think the business is for sale. And I said, can you hand the phone to the owner? Can I talk to them? By the end of the day, I'd already, I toured through their shop and realized there was opportunity and then just kind of make the rest of the story short.
Carl Hutchinson: And about six months we became owners of that business. And that's honestly, that's when we had to make the decision if we were gonna do something, I had to do what I knew and this is what I knew. And I thought I knew a lot until I bought the business and then realized I don't know anything. It just.
Kent Bullard: Well, Carl, I gotta commend you for, you know, having the moral courage and the moral fortitude to stand your ground on that. I think a lot of people don't, and it leads to a very, a world that is lacking for sure. But I wrote down here, you know, it, you you decided to be the good you wanted to see in the world.
Carl Hutchinson: That's,
Kent Bullard: and that's
Carl Hutchinson: true. I mean, that's, so I'd worked for two people that I thought were very unethical and your ethics don't allow you to do that. Just because you need groceries and pay your mortgage and, you know, send your kids to school those kinds of things doesn't mean you can trash your ethics.
Carl Hutchinson: And I was really struggling with that, with both places that I was working, that just, it was a job. They were good paying jobs, but I couldn't stay. I just couldn't stay. And that was, so that was one of the driving things about why we wanted to do what we're doing and the way that we're doing it is that we wanted to make sure that we were on the up and up, that every decision that we made, that if we saw the customer in the grocery store, we wanted to be able to walk up to them.
Carl Hutchinson: We wanted to be able to have a conversation instead of it having to turn, walk away, or, you know, have people call your lawyer. I mean, I couldn't tell you how many times I heard that well just call my lawyer or sue me or something like that. That's not the world I wanna live in. That's not the way we wanted to run business.
Kent Bullard: So do you think that that tension or that moral tension that you were experiencing led you to seek, you know, high performance or people development driven practices in your business?
Carl Hutchinson: Now? Yes. Then no. Like I said, we didn't know what the heck we were doing. I thought all these years of experience, I knew everything.
Carl Hutchinson: And holy cow, once, once you become the owner, you don't know nothing. It took a long time for us to figure it out. And really, the blessing is you start surrounding yourself with people that know way more than you do, and you trust them and they, you allow them to push you. And then that's where all of a sudden you start changing your performance.
Carl Hutchinson: And when you start changing your performance, you start changing everybody else's performance around you. Now it's a little different now. I think our baseline expectations are much higher than the majority of the industry. And that's just our baseline. You know, what we consider a. What other people would consider be to be very good, talented people.
Carl Hutchinson: We feel like these are just basic places to start, and that's probably one of the biggest challenges for us now as we go into this. More of a high performance attitude or mindset and culture is weeding out those that that, that don't wanna play. They just don't wanna be here.
Kent Bullard: So I want to ask Michael, so the companies that know that they want to invest in, you know, the high performance or the people development, what are some of the things that they will experience when they don't have those pieces in place?
Michael Smith: You know, our industry is really a long history of focusing on the sales transaction at the front desk, the work that's done in the back shop, that it's accurate enough not to come back and cost a lot of money to refix, if you will, and running the basic financials just to try to be as profitable as possible.
Michael Smith: And you know what? Happened in the last 20, 25 years was that there was a lot of work done outside of our industry about humans and, you know, how do humans work and why do they work the way they do? And some of the science goes back many decades. But the work that was put together, and I had the fun and fortune of being in the middle of some of that, was trying to bring it forward and start to understand that humans are such a competitive factor in a business.
Michael Smith: And so, Kent, this is a setup to the answer to your question. Most people are either come at this human-centric people productivity competitive advantage of humans model. They come at it from a different philosophy more often than they do from a business experience, especially in our industry. And when they come to this and start looking around and realizing that human beings turned on outperform.
Michael Smith: All the rest of the, sort of the business models that have come before it. The answer to your question is what people who don't get excited about this get is what I guess you'd call sort of average performance and average, you know, organizational structure and average relationships with their people and that are on their teams and with their customers.
Michael Smith: And so it's kind of interesting when, like, when I met Carl and we started talking to each other Carl's had this in his heart. Carl, and I'd love you to speak to this a little bit. You had this in your thought process for quite a while, and I don't know how you got there from here, Garrett. It happened before I showed up in your life and we connected with each other and I'm bringing science to the table and some methodology and supporting you and, you know, development.
Michael Smith: Tools and that kind of thing. But you were on this track before that, and so Kent, that's kind of, kind of the answer. The majority of the industry is still focused on sales and production and the human side's a little bit new for us anyway. So Carl, would you take us there? How did you get there from working in the industry in a sort of an average kind of a way?
Michael Smith: What brought it to you in the first place? Was it fate? Like you mentioned that at the beginning. So,
Carl Hutchinson: There's probably several factors into it. I think that I think like-minded people draw like-minded people. You start running in groups and as you hire you start hiring people that think and act along the same lines.
Carl Hutchinson: So, we've not mastered this by no means. Honestly, we're, I think we're in the rebuilding stage of this more than anything 'cause I think I am. Probably the same as so many other business owners out there that have been complacent over the years, and especially in the last five or six years as talent is hard to get or just anybody is hard to get and you hire the best of available.
Carl Hutchinson: They may not be the best, but they're the best available. And then you start making concessions and you have a hard time weeding things out. So I, I think we, we started early on just really trying to find people that had the same viewpoints as much as possible. And that's a challenge 'cause you, you start overlooking people that just have a great resume.
Carl Hutchinson: Just because they did great things, one other place doesn't mean they're gonna do great things here. Or they might do a lot of production for you and they might do a lot of sales for you, but they do a lot of damage for you also. And that's a real challenge when you start hiring these people and then having to let them go and people don't understand the rest of your staffing doesn't understand and really you can't speak to it as to why, you know, to the technical pieces of it.
Carl Hutchinson: But that, that's a real challenge when they ask, well why did you let such and such go? And it's like, well, I can't speak to it, but he just didn't fit our culture. And that's a challenge, you know, when they start running customers off or it's more of a me, attitude as opposed to a we attitude when it's all about me and what I want, what I need, as opposed to what we need.
Carl Hutchinson: That those are the tough things. And that's, and we're still in that rebuilding. And honestly as we got more and more into this culture change, 'cause we thought we had a pretty good culture to begin with. Once we stepped it up a little bit, we were really amazed at how many people washed out.
Carl Hutchinson: And people that shocked me. I mean, people that I really trusted and really was trying to build a program around. And I think that's probably one of the things that's held us back or set us back more than anything, because I really wanted to be further along in the, in this business life that, you know, some of the people washed out that I was really trusting.
Carl Hutchinson: They just, they didn't see it. They just they couldn't get out of their way and see the bigger picture. So, so that's what we're What do you
Kent Bullard: think I'd love to dive into that because I think a lot of businesses run into this hurdle when they start realizing that I need to be investing in more than just competency.
Kent Bullard: Right. And you've gotta deal with that reconciliation of of competency versus attitude. You know, everybody hears it higher for attitude versus Yeah. But what does that actually mean? Right? I mean, it's so much deeper than that, but what is it like when you're transitioning your team from kind of, Hey, we've got a good culture to now this more scientifically driven approach to human development?
Carl Hutchinson: I don't know that I'm not sure that I can speak to that really well. You know, I, I think the warning, and I think Michael's probably warned us all, you start holding people accountable to do the things that need to be done and in a manner that you'd like them to be done. And either they get on the bus or they don't get on the bus.
Carl Hutchinson: And to, that was one of the biggest shocks to me anyway, is I knew some were going to go and that was okay, but then the others went and it's like, wow, I didn't see that coming. So I'm not real sure.
Kent Bullard: Well, Michael, what do you what happens? So when you start holding people accountable to the next level Sure. To basically saying, I know that you have a much higher potential, and I'd love to Right. Make sure that you meet it.
Michael Smith: Yeah. I'll preface this. It's, it doesn't start with accountability. It ends with accountability.
Michael Smith: And Carl, we've talked about quite a bit in the group that we're in too about responsibility and authority. And then accountability and people are wired to want more responsibility. I mean, that's science. Social science shows that people thrive when they're growing and when they're doing more and they're achieving and they're champions.
Michael Smith: And so they're, they want it. They need it inside. And so when we show up and say, Hey, we think we'd like to do something more together with you, once they sign onto that's it. That's exciting intellectually, right? Then we turn around and say, okay, we're gonna give you the authority behind that.
Michael Smith: It's not like I'm gonna sit there and watch you. You go do this new thing, and if you need some help. Come talk to me. Then they go off and start doing that. Here's what inevitably happens is they bump into difficulties in the new thing. Theoretically, they're over the other side of their comfort zone in a space they haven't been before.
Michael Smith: They're a little bit nervous, and oftentimes people just pull back and maybe stop trying or they back off and they don't try as hard or whatever. That's when the accountability part kicks in, is you need to be real close to them at the beginning when they're nervous about whether they're gonna make it or not, and that.
Michael Smith: Process of self challenge. And I'm coming back to the topic here. You know, it's a surprise sometimes that people will pay all the intellectual, all the verbal you know, say the right words and say, I really want to grow. I wanna do all this stuff. And then when you give them the right to do that, they scare themselves.
Michael Smith: They go back to old tapes that they heard when they were kids, oh, you're not very smart, or, you're gonna have a hard time with this, or whatever. They tried to learn things before and it didn't go well for them. And so there's all kinds of stuff creeps up into their mind and their and into their emotions out of the past.
Michael Smith: And then they decide that they're gonna slow down a little bit. And then, and that's really the challenge, right? Carl? Say you come to a point where some people. Given the opportunity to step up and swing for the fences, step up, and then they step back from the batter's box and they tap their bottom of their shoes again.
Michael Smith: They line up and then they gotta back up and do their grip thing. And they just, this is, you end up with this little dance and it's a surprise. I'm always surprised by the people that decide not to compete, right? They just step back and say, I don't wanna be the best that I can be. And there's lots of reasons for it, and we can all go forward, but some people choose not to for all kinds of different reasons.
Michael Smith: So what,
Kent Bullard: Michael, what's the, I mean, 'cause any time that you are pushing yourself to be better, you're gonna be in areas of discomfort, right? New things that you have to learn. What. Is different about the ones who put themselves in that space and pull back versus the ones who put themselves in that space and lean into it?
Kent Bullard: Yeah, I
Michael Smith: mean, I, Kent, that's a great question. I, if you asked anybody, Hey, would you like to play on a championship team and win all the time? Everybody would say, well, yeah, that would be cool. That'd be really fun to do that. It's like, okay, here's what it means. You have to put yourself out there and you have to challenge yourself, and you have to be humble and people have to be able to coach you and you have to, you know, you have to swing for the fences and you have to help other people do the same thing.
Michael Smith: And by the way, when you're trying something you haven't done before, you're gonna fall on your face a lot. And that might not feel real good. And some people are a little bit low on self-esteem from the way they were raised, and it's hard for them to fall down. And it's not really about what we're gonna say about 'em, it's what they say to themselves.
Michael Smith: And if they had, you know, people that told them in their earlier life they weren't gonna amount to much or they was gonna, they were gonna have to work hard to, you know, blah, blah, blah. Then when they go try something new and they fall down, that just validates those expectations that were set in their lives earlier on.
Michael Smith: And that's hard for them because it's like, I'm in tender territory now. This is stuff that I'm not comfortable with. And so again, they'll either step up and decide, no, you know what? Carl's behind me. This is the time we're gonna do this. The organization wants me to do this inside. I know I want it and I need it, and I'm gonna fight through this until I win.
Michael Smith: And Carl, we've been all down, up and down this road with all kinds of people. Once they start to get used to the fact that they can challenge themselves and actually succeed, then it becomes a little bit addictive. Right? It's kind of fun to say, Hey, I wonder what I can do next. Hey, I wonder what I can do next.
Michael Smith: And once you get that under your skin, then it's almost like they're striving for more and more. And that's, and this is back to our. First accountability question. You don't have to hold people accountable who are self-driving for continuous growth and improvement. They gotta make that transition though.
Michael Smith: They gotta get over that hump and into that self-motivated zone. Or once they do that, then, and those are the people that don't make it over that hump, that end up washing out, right? They're just, you chase 'em, you try to help 'em, you encourage 'em, you put your arm around them, occasionally you have to yell at 'em 'cause they're doing something really stupid to sabotage themselves, to keep you from, you know, believing in them.
Michael Smith: All kinds of weird stuff happens. But it's really interesting how the people who do want to go forward then just take that ball and run with it. And at some point there's self-correcting too. You bring in a dead new employee or you've got that one last employee who's not gonna play the team's all over them.
Michael Smith: And I don't mean in a mean way, but they're like, come on, you can do better than that. And at some point when they get frustrated with them, 'cause they're not gonna try and they're not gonna go forward, the team will turn to you and say it's time. It's time to get rid of this person. It's time to replace 'em.
Michael Smith: And by the way, while you're out there, go bring back another champion to join the team, right? So another star player who wants to play on the team, not just a rockstar, but a rockstar team player. And that it just cha, the culture changes. It's a beautiful thing to see.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, I think you said it much better than I, sorry, Kent, I didn't mean to jump in there, but No worries.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, the ones that, that have jumped in and said, yeah, I want that and I'll do it. Have succeeded. And yes, we've already seen those kinds of things come along. Instead of saying some of the things like can you help me with this? Or what do you think? It's, this is what I've done, this is the action that we're gonna take.
Carl Hutchinson: This is, oh, I screwed this up, but we're fixing this and as opposed to bail me out of trouble, or I don't wanna, you know, we learned a lot of that.
Michael Smith: Go ahead and make me go ahead and make me right. Yeah,
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I think you said, you know, you said it pretty well. I mean, there's a, I think everybody wants it until they get, get it, and then when they get it, then it's easier to revert back.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, it's, so, I gotta call it ownership mentality. Because if you owned it, you can't walk away from it. I mean, really you can't walk away from it. I mean, we could not walk away from it. It was, there was, failure was not an option. Hard, hard work was a great option. Working long hours was options.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, bringing in counsel was options. I mean, all the failure was not an option. So, we learned a lot. And I think that's what a lot of people are afraid of is that to fail and learn as opposed to just go, I'm done. I'm out.
Michael Smith: Let me jump on that for just a second, Kent, and then I'll turn it back to you.
Michael Smith: That failure is not an option. Model is something owners know very well because it's your house that's leveraged to buy the business in the first place or whatever. You can't just decide to take another job, right? You've got to make this thing work. And I'll say this though, the reason I brought this up was something you said.
Michael Smith: That's what happens in the mind of a person who decides to actively become a master. They develop this mindset to say, failure is not an option. It's like, I get it now and I'm gonna optimize my life, and I'm choosing not to live below my potential. And I don't know what the limit is, but I'm gonna start getting out there and just.
Michael Smith: Kitten into it, and it's not good enough for me to be the same as everybody else anymore the way I used to be. I'm gonna go beyond that and I'm not gonna live that way. Right. And that it's almost becomes a failure is not an option mentality, even though they don't own the business. Right? It's like, I'm gonna become a master or die trying.
Michael Smith: But then they do. All of a sudden it's like, well, geez, if I can do that, what else could I do? Hey, what's the next level up? Here's a huge step forward. I'll take it. I'm stepping into it. Then they do that too, and they're like, oh my God, I wonder what I could do next. And the leaps start to become exponential.
Michael Smith: They're little bitty steps at first, but then it's a big step, and then it's a really big step, and it's like, and shoot for the stars. What could I do? Well, this is the really big one. And then they go do that too. It's like, wow. And now they're in a pipeline for themselves. They do it themselves and it's a beautiful thing to see.
Michael Smith: It really is.
Kent Bullard: I, I have a working theory. Just bear with me. Here we go. As we were going through this, I'm like trying to diagnose what are some of the key differences? And I really like, you know, I think that those that do versus those that don't, they view failure differently. They have a different perspective of what failure is.
Kent Bullard: Absolutely. And the purpose of failure. And Carl, you put it. You put it beautifully. I screwed up, but this is how I'm fixing it, right? Yeah. Versus I screwed up. What do I do now? Can you save me from this? You know? 'cause that's when you really look at it and go, look, this is my problem and it's my responsibility.
Kent Bullard: I'm the one that's, that has the authority over the decisions on this. And I know that my team is gonna hold me accountable to the solution of it. And fully understanding that, you know, fail and learn. Right? So there was, rather than fail and secede
Carl Hutchinson: short story, that, and my wife's walking back and forth, they
Carl Hutchinson: want to hear this, but it's so my story.
Carl Hutchinson: So
Carl Hutchinson: she said one time, she said, you don't ever screw anything up. I don't know. I never see anything that you screw up. I said, oh my God,
Carl Hutchinson: you don't have many things I screw up. I just don't tell everybody. That's right.
Michael Smith: And really, it's a quiet, it's a quiet experience, right. I just fix it before
Carl Hutchinson: anybody
Michael Smith: else.
Michael Smith: That's why I go to work early to get it all fixed before the next day starts.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. That's why I work so hard. I wanna fix, I gotta cover that up before anybody sees that. So, but really that, I think that's what we're looking for
Carl Hutchinson: In people that we wanna put in leadership positions and the people that we want to advance is, you know, they're not afraid to push the button and go, oh, what does that do?
Carl Hutchinson: You know, oh crap, just nap. Right? Pull the plug and let's reset this thing. But I think that's what we're looking for in people to do that and not be afraid to take chances and. To mess stuff up and really to fix it and really going back to this leadership mentality kind of thing, and to give people enough rope to do those things and to stay out of their way.
Carl Hutchinson: That has been the biggest challenge for me. And as I talk to our emerging leaders 'cause I, I keep getting this question about, well, what do you do when others don't do the exactly the way that you want it done? And it's like, man, you gotta give them some space. You just gotta let 'em, you gotta let 'em fail to learn.
Carl Hutchinson: And that's the only way you're gonna be able to do that too. And that's really tough, especially for those of us that are in this industry. 'cause I hate to say this industry is a very precise industry. It is not an industry of, oh, take two aspirins and call me in the morning or in time it will get better.
Carl Hutchinson: It's either is or isn't in this industry and we have very little grace in this industry or forgiveness, and that's, it's a real challenge.
Kent Bullard: I've always had this thought and I've never been a technician, but I know that a lot of technicians put a lot of value in whether or not they have the answer.
Carl Hutchinson: Oh, absolutely. That they fix the
Kent Bullard: problem that's in front of them, right? But then when it comes to an owner in the position where they're training and bringing technicians on board, they're like, well, I need them to be up here. And it's like, well, they didn't have the same level of years of experience and the opportunity to fail like you did.
Kent Bullard: And you know, oftentimes in classes I'll say, how many of you guys have, you know, busted apart or done this? Or, you know, a lot of hands go up and it's like there was somebody there that gave you the grace to make those mistakes. I wrote down here, you know, failure is 'cause I always view failure as not the opposite of success, right?
Kent Bullard: So here, done here, failure is the cost for competence. And when you're striving for success, I mean, mistakes are gonna happen. And it's how you deal with those things.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. I think you have to fail. I mean, if you're not failing, you're not trying. It's the way I look at it. And to me. There's no I don't know how to say this.
Carl Hutchinson: It's not a bad thing to fail. It's a bad thing to quit. That's probably not the right way to say it, but
Michael Smith: that's a good way to say it.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, I don't mind people failing 'cause those are learning lessons and it's like, well always come away with, well, we're not gonna do that way next time. Or now we know, or, there's so many of these lessons in this industry that you can't tell somebody.
Carl Hutchinson: You have to live through them. And that's some of the challenges that we're having with some of our emerging leaders was, you know, I could have told you what was gonna happen, but you wouldn't have believed me until it happened. And then you're on the other side of it, and then you can see, oh, now I understand what happened.
Carl Hutchinson: And you're right, I wouldn't have believed you if you would've told me this was gonna happen, but this is what you have to do. So sometimes you have to let 'em go through it and to learn that lesson. And then they have that basis for the next one. The ones that get me are the ones that quit. You know, they're just, no, I failed. I'm done. I'm not gonna do that. I'm not gonna try again. I'm not gonna put myself out there. And the, those people, I don't know I'm not interested in putting a lot of sweat equity into those types of individuals. I'll help just about anybody that wants to help themselves.
Carl Hutchinson: If they wanna learn, if they wanna do, if they want to grow, if they want, I'll take chances on people. If they have a desire and a passion to do something, and I think that's what we should be doing. 'cause you never know there's a diamond out there that just needs to be polished up somewhere.
Carl Hutchinson: Somebody spent a lot of time with me to give here, so I think we need to pass that on to the others.
Michael Smith: You know, if you see, and I'll add to this, if you see failure as a mistake or you see failure as some kind of a character weakness or a an indication to others that you're not all, that you are trying to present yourself to be.
Michael Smith: If that's what failure is, then it's gonna be a painful, avoidable, you know, try to avoid it thing. If there's an emotional, an emotionally dispassionate approach to failure and say, look, I'm a master. And I'm a master in training and I'm gonna continue to master more and more things in my personal and professional life.
Michael Smith: And failure for me is nothing but an attempt at something I haven't done before that I'm gonna conquer. If I miss it this time, I'll try again. If I miss it that time, I'll try till I get it. And once I got it. And so failure isn't a mistake. Failure is a learning curve. Yes. Experience. And so then you can step back and you can make it intellectual and set the emotional part aside.
Michael Smith: You can be frustrated all you want, but don't take it personally. Right. It's like, it's not like, right. You as a human being have failed because you didn't finish this properly. It's just one more, one more chip on the pathway to getting it right and that, that. That mindset shift is huge for this path to mastery.
Michael Smith: It's huge because that's what allows people to say, Carl's not gonna think less of me. I work for him. He told me to take a chance. I tried my best. I failed. I'm gonna beat myself up more than you. I know you, I, you know, you, and again, as long as I'm trying and learning, you'll stand with me indefinitely.
Michael Smith: It's when I stop and lock up and say, oh, this is stupid. I'm not gonna learn. Or, you know what? I hate this and you know, I'm gonna just stay stuck or whatever. That's I'm with you. That's when I look at people and say, I don't know how I can help you at this point, because as long as you're trying this path is endless.
Michael Smith: And as soon as you master something, pick something else that's parallel to it. Pick something else. That's interesting. Add that to it. This is a lifetime journey. Endless learning opportunities and I'm with you. So it's that emotionally dispassionate approach that really helps a lot. So if anybody's stuck in that self separate your self-esteem if you can from the failure in a moment and realize it's just a learning moment.
Michael Smith: So,
Kent Bullard: thank you Michael. I needed that personally. Most of us
Michael Smith: do. Me too, by the way. Calm me. We, that's the thing
Kent Bullard: is like a lot of this, a lot of this stuff is like practice. It takes practice. Even I struggle with a lot of this stuff, you know, and just going, oh, I wanna quit, or I have these negative thoughts and I'm like, well, no, I can't.
Kent Bullard: I gotta get back up, dust myself off and keep going at it, you know? Yeah. I wanna put a pin in this. Just, I love this topic, but I wanna put a pin in it because I wanna move towards you know, looking at Carl, you know, what are some of the strategies or the philosophies that you have found have been effective for developing your talent?
Carl Hutchinson: Wow. Strategies. I really didn't know much about strategies until I met Michael. And I'm still learning about strategies. Most of the rest of it is just learning the hard way developing people. You know, you, I don't know. We come from an industry that has come so far in the last really 20 years, but in the last 40 or 50 years, it's really come a long ways.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, it's just the, we've cleaned up the industry, we've been become professional. You know, there's so much of that. The strategy is man,
Carl Hutchinson: probably to know them more than what I would've ever known them in the past, and I still struggle with that. And really knowing in depth. I think we have a surface level of knowing our employees and then maybe the second step down. We know 'em, maybe we know their kids' names or something like that.
Carl Hutchinson: But to really get to know that the really inner passions that's one of the challenges that I'm working with is to really, to get to know my employees better. Screaming and yelling. That's not a strategy that, that we done that once and that doesn't work both ways to me out from me.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. It doesn't work. I think trying to pick the right people, asking the right questions and if I can marry up what they want to do with what I need done is probably one of the biggest challenges. 'cause we've hired a lot of people in the past that we knew were not five year people. They were not 10 year people.
Carl Hutchinson: Which was okay to fill a spot to get us going, to get them going, to get them from A to B. But if they want to go on and be an architect, if they want to go on and be a lawyer, if they want to go on and be something else, and they need us for a short period of time, I think that's, we've done that. I'm still working on the strategies.
Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the best thing I can say is I don't know that I'm on my way to mastery, let me put it that way. We'll put the yet in there.
Kent Bullard: So well, let's look at let's take a pivot here. Then we can go onto another subject. Let's take a look at, you know, I mean, you're actively hiring and finding.
Kent Bullard: Team members to, to expand, you know, complete automotive and what you guys do. What are some of the unique qualities or skills that you tend to prioritize for a high performing team versus, or I guess above and beyond the competencies or the technical skills? Yeah,
Carl Hutchinson: and I'm trying to come up with some scenarios as to the things that we've hired to and the things that we've passed over.
Carl Hutchinson: I guess that falls into the strategic planning portion of it more than anything is I put a job offer out to a gentleman that had all of the credentials that really could have been a production machine for us, and I had to withdraw that job offer. The more we thought about it, the more we realized this was not.
Carl Hutchinson: A long term thing, and I didn't wanna do that for our team, and I didn't wanna do that for him. So that was the conversation that we had. So I think that falls into that category of, you know, just because they have all the credentials and they can come in and do, doesn't mean that they're going to be the right person for everybody else and for our long-term growth.
Carl Hutchinson: So I think that falls into that being selective and being more strategic there. I use the word in a sentence.
Kent Bullard: Does it hurt having to say no to somebody who looks really good on paper? It
Carl Hutchinson: really does. I mean, and I think I can say this for about every shop owner out there, probably every business owner out there, it doesn't matter that when you get somebody that has all of their credentials, you want so badly to hire that person that you actually make them the what you want them to be, as opposed to what they really are.
Carl Hutchinson: And that's a real challenge. 'cause that's where you have to have people around you going, yeah, I don't like the way he walked in. I don't like the way they talk to us as they come into the interview. I don't like the way they were dressed. I don't, you know, they, they see all the things you don't see because you're blinded because of the resume and.
Carl Hutchinson: What you need to get done. And you're tired of hiring, interviewing and it's like, man, I had to pass over somebody else. And then you think, well, I'm gonna hire somebody that's of a lesser caliber, but you don't know. You've not met that other person yet. So I think that's some of the strategic, if I can keep going back, I'm gonna learn this word at some point, I'm wanna get into my brain.
Carl Hutchinson: That yeah,
Kent Bullard: It's like good relationship advice, right? Yeah. You know, sometimes you just like the idea of them, you romanticize or fantasize this version of them that could just fit into your life so well and you don't look at them as a human being. And I think that's one thing, you know, especially in my interviews, in my, filters, right? Yeah. Is to ask specific questions so that I am trying to hit as many of my own biases as I can with logic, right? Yes. Yeah. Is this, you know, we look at a personality profile, there's gonna be this discrepancy here. How is that gonna play into the dynamic of my team? And frankly, if that were turned up to 11, how bad could that be?
Kent Bullard: Right? It just, it's the same as I would look at some of the good qualities and turn those up to 11. What would happen if I Right. Was able to put them in a position where they were using all of this. Right. What could that do for the business? Yeah. And that takes a lot of thought and consideration, not only from yourself, but also with your team.
Kent Bullard: And I think there's a lot of people who. Are just like, I need to put a body in the seat and so that I can get back to trying to, you know, I think I've said that keep bailing water out of the boat. Right? I think
Carl Hutchinson: I've said that a few times. I just need somebody here that can
Carl Hutchinson: do something. But yeah it's a real challenge, you know, and we've learned to ask more people-centric questions than maybe process procedural questions.
Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, one of my things as of late as I'm trying to get this leadership team to grow is I've handed off that hiring portion. So to let them do the interviews on the technical aspects, to let them do the interviews on the positional aspects. I may do some of the preliminary type of stuff.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, I may go through and look through resumes and go, yeah, this stack. And this stack? No. And and I may do some of the initial phone interviews to say, yeah, let's get this person in or not. But you know, I'm trying to ask more of the, I guess, the intellectual questions and more the deep thinking questions.
Carl Hutchinson: And one of the questions that I've asked over the years, and I really was surprised at how much effect it has on decision making is I asked them what their hobbies are and if they can't answer quickly, that's really not a good candidate. And it really amazed me that was such a defining question that if they don't have a hobby or a release or a passion for something other than what they're doing it was a big indicator and I was really surprised that it was such a big indicator.
Carl Hutchinson: 'cause the ones that really didn't have a hobby, they were pretty bl pretty just.
Kent Bullard: So, so let me ask you, does it matter what the hobby is?
Carl Hutchinson: Not really. I mean, you would think people that are in the automotive industry, that would be their hobby. And it's the good ones that's really not their hobby. And it's amazing, whether it's RC cars or whether it's archery, or whether it's horses, or whether it's motorcycle or motocross or whatever.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, the list is endless. Artist dancing, I mean, that was, that's the one that blew my mind. I hired this young man that when I asked him what his hobby was, he said, dancing. It's like, dude, you're 19 years old. Dancing is your hobby. He says, absolutely. I says, well, what kind of dancing? And then he rattled off stuff I'd never heard of.
Carl Hutchinson: And it's like, you're, it, I mean, but I was really shocked that was such an indicator that it gave me the idea that there, there was more to the person than just the job. And if you're just showing up here and you're going home and sitting in front of the television or you're, you know, you don't have another interest.
Carl Hutchinson: There's no driving. And I was really shocked that question was such a game changer as opposed to a lot of the other questions.
Kent Bullard: Michael, I wanna throw it over to you 'cause I just had a thought and I wanna ask a question here. So bear with me as I kind of flesh this out. Okay? Sure. Looking at this question, Carl do you think, Michael, that it has to do with the fact that the people who don't have these extracurriculars or these hobbies are somewhat locked?
Kent Bullard: Yep. I think
Carl Hutchinson: you're getting
Kent Bullard: it.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, I think you're getting it too. Yeah. They're,
Kent Bullard: they're locked in this space where they're not cognitively flexible and that prevents progress or growth. So an evidence marker to say that this is gonna be somebody that is gonna be hard to invest in their own personal benefit and development just because they don't have, like, they are already inflexible with their life.
Kent Bullard: They're doing this and this, and that's it. I don't know if that is a great question there, but I don't know. I don't wanna answer
Carl Hutchinson: for Michael, but I just. The more I think about it it's more of like the critical thinking. Like if you have horses and man, they're just problem solving all over the place with horses.
Carl Hutchinson: So if you have horses and you're trying to train them and you're trying to get them to do something, you're constantly just on the this thinking thing. RC cars or archery, I'm just thinking all these things. All of 'em have critical thinking. I mean, the hobbies that I have, there's a lot of critical thinking in it and problem solving.
Carl Hutchinson: And you're always challenging yourself to do something more, go places different. And so I really think there's something to that, that those are the ones that I kind of think set, are set apart. That they're already on a path. That if they're doing something like that, then they're teachable then they're.
Carl Hutchinson: Maybe they're more apt to take on that extra thing and not really know what the heck they're doing.
Michael Smith: And yeah, and I'd absolutely agree with that. And I would I'll add this to it, and sorry that my intercon internet connection this afternoon is just a tad unstable, so I caught most of that. Now, you know, I'll say this.
Michael Smith: We live our life in habits and Carl, we've talked about this and some of the stuff we studied together, we are 90% habitual. As average human beings. And so the point is we groove our lives in ways that worked in the past, and then we tend to stick with it because it's energy efficient, it's time efficient, it's, you know, it's success efficient.
Michael Smith: I know if I do it again, I'm probably gonna succeed. And so in some ways, all, every single one of us gets lazy. And whatever we habitually tracked is what we tend to continue to do. And so you can track sitting on a couch and playing video games with every ounce of free time you have. Or you can track, you know, dating your girlfriend, turns into your wife, and you spend all of your life focusing on just one person.
Michael Smith: And that's all you do outside of work too. You can track anything you want to in terms of this habitual model. And so I'm just sort of bringing the psychology behind what you guys are talking about. You can track learning too. You can become a learning, mastering being, and you can habituate that and you can then be interested in trying new things and doing hobbies and, you know, getting good at something.
Michael Smith: And you can have one hobby, or you can have a hobby for a while and then abandon it. I think those of you who know me know how much I think of da Vinci and how he would just grab some very strange challenge and work it, fail at it, work it, fail at it, work it until he mastered it, and then when he was sufficiently.
Michael Smith: Pleased with his level of progress. He'd say, okay, that's enough. I consider that I've mastered this particular thing. And then he'd turn around and pick up some equally difficult, impossible thing, and he'd take that on until he mastered it. And that, you know, that's the person you kind of, in some ways want to hire.
Michael Smith: Right? A da Vinci, of course, if he was still here. But beyond that, people who are just ready to try new things and say, you know what? I love this process of learning. I'm not afraid to fail, and I think it's great to do new things together. 'cause frankly, as a business owner in the industry that we're in, you can learn to run the operation better.
Michael Smith: If you're in the back shop, you can learn more about what happens at the front desk. If you're an owner, you can learn more finance, you can learn more psychology. If you're in the customer studying business, you can all figure out. What's happening in your community and in your particular unique customer base and watching the vehicles change?
Michael Smith: There is an endless number of things. There are an endless number of things that we can study and learn in our industry to be at the top of the game. And, you know, that's the thing. Are they habituated to couch sitting or are they habituated to the learning curve and to being excited? And that's where the hobbies would lean in dancing and motorcycle riding on the weekends and whatever, right.
Michael Smith: Whatever their things are. I, so I join you in that. There's a lot of psychology behind what you guys are talking about finding the champions in preparation. Right.
Kent Bullard: I wanna reiterate the question now that I've had a chance to think about it. So for now that we've
Michael Smith: the wrong question.
Kent Bullard: Now that we've answered the question, I'd love to reiterate the question. And we'll do this in post, we'll put it back in the beginning, but the question really is, do you think that the hobby question is related to the cognitive inflexibility of somebody who you are going to invest a lot of time and energy in developing and could bear evidence to whether or not there's somebody who can view that potential and pursue it?
Carl Hutchinson: I'll say yes. I mean, that's the short answer, just for the simple fact that I have passed over potential employees based on that answer. I mean, that's the short of it because if they don't have a driving interest it's a real challenge. I mean, that's just been my experience is it's a real challenge to get them to do anything that I need them to do and Right.
Carl Hutchinson: It's almost like a qualifying question as opposed to, you know, do you have a driver's license? We have to have a driver's license to, to work in this industry. It's like, do you have a hobby? And that ought to be like question number two, makes this interview really short. I don't know. But yes I think to me it does, and I don't know about to everybody else, but to me it does because it, I find it a real challenge to, to get somebody to go to where I feel like they can go or where I need them to go if they don't have that teachable or that ability to problem solve, learn self-motivated, I mean, those kinds of things.
Carl Hutchinson: Because I think that's what comes from hobbies. I mean, I mean, you think about it, if you wanna fly RC airplanes, there's a whole lot of stuff you gotta know. I mean. Way more than I ever thought about knowing. Like you just can't fly them any day. I mean, just because you're day off, that doesn't mean you can fly them that day.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, there's a lot of things that go into it, and you really have to be on this constant thinking and planning and I really think that's where, I think that's where the hobbies come into it. At least that's what I see. And I hate to say, I just stumbled onto it, just I picked it up somewhere.
Carl Hutchinson: In some class that I was in, it's probably the one thing that I got out of a class. I'm gonna say it was a Cecil class. We'll give them the credit for it. I
Michael Smith: picked it. You're not
Carl Hutchinson: here to defend
Michael Smith: himself. Go ahead. I picked it up. Now I'm in class and it's like, oh
Kent Bullard: yeah we are creatures of habit and we tend to habitualize the things that are successful.
Kent Bullard: Right. What we do. So to take it one step further, I guess you could even say, you know, is the hobby something that is mentally stimulating in the sense of dealing with problems? 'cause I could see people answering hobbies that are not necessarily like, that seem a lot more passive, you know?
Carl Hutchinson: I don't know.
Carl Hutchinson: My wife does needle point and I don't know. Yeah, I guess there's problems with that too, that you gotta solve and mean. She does all kinds of craft hobbies. This house is full of it and,
Kent Bullard: I guess aside from saying you, you enjoy watching tv, you know? Yeah. Which is right. Anything other than that? Yeah, I,
Carl Hutchinson: I was gonna say, that's a mental note to anybody that's doing any kind of an interview, even if it's a fake
Kent Bullard: hobby, don't answer with that question.
Kent Bullard: Make
Carl Hutchinson: a hobby, but be prepared to answer a few questions, because there may be somebody that knows a lot more about it. I mean, you know, I know a little bit about motocross or motorcycles. I mean, that's a hobby that I could ask questions about. You know, badminton, eh, probably not. You know, I don't, you know, pickle ball?
Carl Hutchinson: I don't know. It's like ping pong in a big court, I guess. But I don't know.
Kent Bullard: So let's refocus let's go into the next piece here. Because I think there's a balance here. A lot of people who are listening to this out there. If you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, this is a lot of,
Carl Hutchinson: where are they going with this mumbo
Kent Bullard: jumbo where it's like, we're, oh yeah, people, you know, all of this and can take it as this very ethereal intangible thing, you know?
Kent Bullard: How do you approach the balance between driving a team for performance? 'cause a lot of people are gonna be numbers driven. I wanna make sure we're hitting targets and all that. And also maintaining a supportive, human-centric environment with your team where you're having the time for the people, parts of it.
Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the one question that I put. I don't know. I got that one figured out that's a master level of somebody else there that I need to get in their wake and figure out how this happens. Honestly, it's a bigger challenge for me now than it had been because we were such a numbers driven and, you know, go push and, you know, we could make the numbers work.
Carl Hutchinson: But you also wear your people out and, you know, you don't have the right attitude. So I honestly, I'm trying to do the softer approach to it. I'm trying to back out and really give people a lot more space and a lot more ability to make those decisions and learn some of the tough lessons of making those decisions to get some of that balance because.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, I hate to say we can't work from home. Okay. So it's not, we can give you that kind of a benefit. And any kind of time off is a detriment to the company. Twofold. I mean, when you really think about it. So trying to work within the people that you have, trying to give them the time that they need to, you know, to buy homes to get off early, to go to their kids' school plays and, you know, to ball games and things like that, to be somewhat flexible.
Carl Hutchinson: I think we're a lot more flexible now than what we've ever been in this industry. And I think that's how you keep the good people. I think that's how you motivate and motivate, iss the wrong word. Maybe inspire the right people. To show up early the next day, maybe to work, I hate to say work through lunch, but work through lunch that kind of thing.
Carl Hutchinson: So,
Kent Bullard: well not only work life balance things, but what about, you know, the time to invest in development discussions and team meetings where you're talking culture and, you know, those are practical things that take time within the business space and leveraging whether or not those are valuable to the overall output of the company.
Carl Hutchinson: Well, right, and I hate to say I'm struggling with that piece of it just this week because we've got some planning meetings that. Don't tell Michael, but I'm a little bit behind on, and I won't tell him either. So in the years past, it was pretty easy to do all this, and I'll use the word strategic. I love the word now.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I was the guy that was doing it. I had my core people, they were around me. They and those were outside of my business. Those were the counselors and people that you bring in the group process. And we could go through and I could run budgets and I could run market plans and I could run projections.
Carl Hutchinson: And I could do all these things and I could have all this stuff done. The challenge is now nobody knows it but me. And now that we're trying to bring these other leaders in, and I really want their input and their buy-in as to what we're saying to be done. Now I'm running into this time barrier of vacations and, you know, people are off.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, I got a gentleman off right now for a couple of days, you know, he's moving and so now I can't take my leadership out. And so, no, I'm struggling with that. I'll be real honest with you. I'm really struggling with it. So one of the things that we've done to, to curb some of this is we went to a every other week lunch meeting entire staff at that location.
Carl Hutchinson: We're providing lunch, we're running a mini L 10 meeting or a mini leadership meeting. Don't tell 'em, but there's an agenda and I got the agenda in my head and we click through it. I'm not writing it out. I'm not telling you what the next steps are, but I mean, it's that check-in process. Tell me what works.
Carl Hutchinson: Tell me what doesn't work. Tell me what we can do better all of, get all this input as much as we can in a short period of time. So that's carving those times out. Honestly, even that as a challenge, because the pushback has been, you're taking my time, this is my lunch hour. I don't know I come up in an industry where you went to work and then you did all your training and everything after hours, you gave up your Saturdays.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, this is the old school we're dealing with the new school way. So it's a different way of thinking. Yeah. But so no, that's it. That is working for us. It's taken a long time for everybody to understand that it's a safe place and that they can speak, they can say. Such and such offended me. This tool doesn't work.
Carl Hutchinson: What do you think about doing this? You know, this needs to be fixed and it's fixing all the little things. Keeps them from being big things. I guess that's the best way to put it. And if we fix all the little things along the way, then they never become big things And you know, all of those big things have, we don't have the big fires anymore, they're just the little ones.
Carl Hutchinson: So that's, I guess that's the best way. And it's, that's probably the hardest thing is trying to carve out time now. 'Cause our industry and our people have changed. And I honestly, I think it's for the good, but then there's so many of us that are, my God, why don't we just stay after work and let's get this done?
Carl Hutchinson: And, you know, it's like everybody's wanting to, no, I'm going home. I, it's like, well, I really can't ask you or demand you to stay. So we have to figure out how to carve out time. Yeah,
Kent Bullard: that's right. You're hiring with pe people with hobbies. There's more to life than just work, right? I do wanna commend, I just wanna make a comment for Carl.
Kent Bullard: You know, he said we experienced this problem and here's what I'm doing about it. Just to, well, you know, talk about leadership, right? We
Carl Hutchinson: keep changing it, you know, 'cause I mean, we're running kind of the EOS program as closely as I can run it. So we're running an operating system and it's a lot of meetings and I, and I've told this to Michael several times, it's like, man, I'm meeting out and it's just every day there's another meeting, there's another meeting.
Carl Hutchinson: And but it works. And that's the challenge of it is it works. I think that what we're experiencing is we're running extremely lean right at the moment, and it's hard to carve out. It's hard to pull out that leader that you need with
Kent Bullard: everybody there. Yeah.
Carl Hutchinson: And still get stuff done because somebody's being shorted because that person's not there.
Carl Hutchinson: So if you're running fat, it's a lot easier. But if you're running very lean, which is where we're at right at the moment, and we chose to be lean at this point. We got tired of all of the distractions, so let's just run lean for a while. But that's what's also turned into a challenge, especially when you have a leadership meeting.
Carl Hutchinson: Then you have, you turn right around and you have a staff meeting, and you try to do all those in the same day. And then, oh, now we have a planning meeting to go to. Now we have a financial meeting to go to. Now we have a. Strategic, what are we gonna do for next year meeting? And yeah's,
Kent Bullard: there's always things that I personally like to prioritize when I'm having a meeting is just either this meeting is here to make a decision for how we move forward, or this meeting is gonna save us 90% of the headache later.
Carl Hutchinson: And the, just for clarification. Yeah. Right. Yeah. The second one is the biggest thing that I try to explain to all of our employees that speak up. Let us know what's going on. Let us help you, let us fix it. Let's figure out what training you need. Because if I can train you now, we have less headache in the future.
Carl Hutchinson: Everything has that. Let me get you through fire safety. Let me get you through whatever. And we don't have that big headache later. But to circle back, that's honestly, that's one of the biggest challenges we have in this industry. Not just in-house, in our house, but as an industry whole. We see our associations really struggling, and we see our business development groups struggling because the mentality is I don't wanna go seven o'clock at night.
Carl Hutchinson: I don't want to go eight o'clock at night. I don't wanna give up my Saturday. I'm already giving up. So honestly that's probably one of the biggest things that we have trouble with in our industry. And as, as I talk to people in other industries and I don't know how they relate because we're such a production oriented industry that like, if somebody needed to go get 20 hours worth of continuing education, they just go do it.
Carl Hutchinson: Well, I don't know who does their job when they're gone. You know, it's like if we sent two technicians out to, to do that, who does that? It just doesn't get done. And that's, that, that's a real challenge for us. 'cause we are so product driven, we're so sales driven. We're so, and it's tough to carve that time out.
Carl Hutchinson: Well, I think if you can communicate,
Michael Smith: Ken, can I, oh yeah, go ahead Mike. No, just a little bit. You know, I often meet owners who say, you know, I put in an EOS system or something similar to it, and they come and they say it's not working and this is not a slam on EOS or traction or any of that.
Michael Smith: And they come and they say It's not working because we sit in our meetings, we have our L tens, whatever, and people take, pick up their rocks and they promise they're gonna get it done, and we make all the commitments and then they come back to the next meeting and it's not done. And so then we sort of castigate each other and we reset the expectations and we add a couple more rocks and they go away and they come back to the next one and it's not done.
Michael Smith: It's incredibly frustrating. And then they'll say something like, this system doesn't work right, because they get to that point. And I'll say, it does but I'll say, here's the difference. If you do the accountability thing with those fine accountability systems, and there's many of 'em, you've got an accountability book.
Michael Smith: On your bookshelf right behind you that some folks know as well. Right? And those systems are great, but if the people aren't motivated from within themselves to be engaging in what they're doing, then these meetings are meetings for the sake of meetings and you hand them rocks and they're carrying a load and it's like, why do I have to carry this on top of what I have to do?
Michael Smith: Or do you know how busy I am already? Or blah, blah, blah. Right. Well, we, what we seem to find is that when the teams and Carl your is in the done a chunk of it, and there's still always more to do when individuals decide they're going to grow their own life. Right? It's like, I decide working for you, Carl.
Michael Smith: I'm gonna make the most of my life. I'm gonna make it. Personal side, professional side. I wanna master everything I do at work. I'm gonna go home and master my relationships. I'm gonna go back onto into my friend group and clean it up a little bit and fire some of the jerks that I should have fired a long time ago and all that, right?
Michael Smith: I had to decide I'm gonna lead a different kind of a life. All of a sudden. I want the metrics, and this is gonna sound crazy, but it's like, you know what? Now I come to the L 10 meeting and guess who I'm answering to? I'm not answering to you. I'm answering to me because I've decided that you're gonna help me.
Michael Smith: And you said it. You have so many seeds that you've sown through this. Carl, I'm gonna pick up on a couple you want you've aligned what I want with what you want from me. Right. Your job as the owner is, look, I gotta move the company and I got all the stuff that needs to get done. You guys are all here working and you're growing in your own profession.
Michael Smith: My job is to know you and what you want and need, and then I gotta put all that together so that I ask from each of you what you are gonna be able to give and want to give so that at the end that all adds up and we all get what we want, which is a highly successful company. Enough profitability to raise paychecks, all the stuff that we all want, all the way around the board.
Michael Smith: And when the culture takes that turn. And people aren't there anymore for a job. They're not there anymore because they have to be there. 'cause Carl's gonna be on their back if they don't, or the store manager or whatever. Accountability suddenly becomes this thing about, look, hold me accountable and I want you to pick out what I can do better.
Michael Smith: Most people are like, what? I don't want you to talk to me about my failures. Are you kidding me? It's like, no. At the end of the meeting, I don't want to hear what went well. I want to hear what we could do better next time because I'm on a journey here and you're here. You told me you were gonna come help me with this journey, Carl, and I want you to push me right?
Michael Smith: I want you to hold me accountable. I want you to kick my rear end, right? We have peer groups of owners and they always ask, we want our butts kick more. And it's like, you like this? It's like that's what helps us to stay moving, right? Because there are times when we sit down and go, I'm tired. Then you look in the mirror and it's only you looking at you and you go, Hey, that guy looks tired too.
Michael Smith: And then you decide to sit there. Right? But if somebody calls on the phone, did you get that report done? You're like just a second. I'll get it out tomorrow. Right. Yeah. And again, it's just back and that's where I'm just building an awful lot of stuff. You said when you get a true championship team turned on, they are in the metrics 'cause they want them for each of their individual selves and they want to know how the team's doing.
Michael Smith: 'cause you know, at the end of the day, the way you become a chronic champion is you beat everybody else more consistently than you lose. The only way to know that is if you keep score. As dumb as that sound. You can't just do it and go, well, that one felt pretty good. It's like, you gotta win. And that's where the metrics part comes in.
Michael Smith: So I, and you're, you have largely turned that corner and you know that you're past, the meetings are a pain in the neck. 'cause they just take time away from me. Now you're into the, well what do they really mean to me? And why am I here? And now I sure they care. And some of the folks that work for you are there and some of 'em are getting there.
Michael Smith: And it's good, right? Because 'cause that's when it takes on a whole different nature. Anyway, I wanted to add that to the mix. 'cause I often hear, oh, my accountability system doesn't work. It's like, well, let's dig into that a little bit. It's probably not the system that's the problem at this point.
Michael Smith: And you get back into the human side, right?
Carl Hutchinson: So give it a, you get the nail on the head and any operating system is not easy. I mean, really it's not, it doesn't matter what it is. You know, you can read all these books and do all, but doing it and holding yourself accountable to it is probably the hardest thing, right.
Carl Hutchinson: But yeah the, to carve out the time is probably the hardest thing. Because anytime you have people that are in production roles of whatever, it doesn't matter, whatever role they're in, they're producing and you take 'em away from that is a challenge. But I've always looked at it as, if I took 20 minutes of your time or an hour of your time, can I save you three hours later?
Carl Hutchinson: Can I save you upset customer? Can I save you some kind of headache? Or even if it's just a discussion or passing on the knowledge of, hey, let's don't work on that. You know, let's some of this old knowledge that we have, some of these newer people don't know. To not do. I think that's the best way to put it.
Michael Smith: Yeah. Well, let me add to your list. Can I, can we have a meeting where I share something with you that will help you to have a better life? Yeah. I mean, that, that's really what we're after, right? Is to have the meetings be productive in that way. And when people get it and they realize the kind of investment that you're making in them, that you actually care about 'em and you do know who they are, and you do understand their career and personal aspirations, and you're asking them at work to do what they're good at and also what's gonna cause them to go farther with what they want and dream about in their life.
Michael Smith: Why wouldn't I show up in a meeting that you hold at that point? 'cause I know I'm gonna get something outta it, right? Which,
Carl Hutchinson: well, and so many of them are shocked that we want them to be better husbands or better. Wives or better partners or better fathers or whatever. And a lot of the things that we try to teach and do is not necessarily for their professional position.
Carl Hutchinson: And it's how do we make them a better person? And I think if we can make 'em a better person, we've got a much better employee staff member, team player, whatever tag you wanna put on them. I try to, family members is really what I I don't know. It's kind of weird, but I think if we could, I think family members will call each other out faster than maybe coworkers.
Michael Smith: And they enjoy it more, do they? Right.
Carl Hutchinson: Well, yeah. Your brothers and sisters will pick on you. Depends on the family. Yeah.
Kent Bullard: Yeah. Or you get blackball. I will say this, I feel like as a society, we've forgotten the importance of mentorship.
Carl Hutchinson: Yes. And
Kent Bullard: I think, you know, with the advent of the internet, you know, I talk about this a lot, but with the advent of the internet the dissemination of knowledge and information is now, you know.
Kent Bullard: You've gotta go around on both sides because now it's easier for me to not have to go to somebody like Michael and ask him a question, but I can go online and Google an answer. But at the same time, it's also kind of a lot easier for the older generation to go, well, I mean, they can just Google it, so I'll focus my attention elsewhere.
Kent Bullard: And you kind of have this like, separation and really the younger people really need that. And I think they know that, right? And so just reaching out and making that connection and saying, you know, I wanna mentor you, not just bark at you and tell you what has to happen, but really invest in them because that's what we've done generations prior.
Kent Bullard: Yeah,
Michael Smith: I like that. Mentorship. Go ahead Carl.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah, go ahead. I mean, when I come into the industry as a technician, you know, 40 years ago, everything has a 40 years slant to it now. I begged for a mentor. Yeah, I mean, and basically they just threw you into the deep end of the pool and you either, you know, swam or you sank.
Carl Hutchinson: And I did not like that. I mean, I figured out how to swim, but I didn't swim well and I've been told that there's three things in my life and my professional life. There's the right way, the wrong way in Carl's way. Well, Carl's Way is because Carl learned it on his own, and he wasn't really taught anything.
Carl Hutchinson: What it works, I mean, I tell my son a lot. It's says, well, he looks at some of the stuff that I do and as, but it works. I, and that's all I need to know is it works. So yeah, the right way, wrong way in Carls way. And so mentorship in our industry, I don't think really came along until maybe 20 years ago or 15 years ago, that we really started talking about apprentice programs and bringing people in and.
Carl Hutchinson: Tutoring them. I mean, I think I'm a product of that. Like I said earlier in this was I was being what, I forget the word that I used. I was being I can't think of modified or groomed, that's where word was for groomed. I was being groomed for a position that I didn't know. The but we really need that in our industry and not just in our own houses.
Carl Hutchinson: I, I really think that I've had a lot of great mentors that own businesses, other places, and I get to watch and see how they interact and how they d deal with their employees and how they deal with their hiring and I, how they deal with those things. So I think we need to be mentors for other.
Carl Hutchinson: Businesses and in our groups. But in-house I think that's a huge thing. I think we're never gonna get our leadership teams to where we want 'em to be if we're not gonna mentor them, if we're not gonna bring 'em up, we're not gonna get our technicians to where they need to be if we don't have programs for them.
Carl Hutchinson: And really I guess one of the bigger challenges is hiring the experience that wants to teach the ones. That's probably one of the bigger challenges that I've seen in our industry is the ones that have a lot of experience are not necessarily good at teaching. They say they will, but when they get in, you know, it's that culture.
Carl Hutchinson: Well, I mean, they've had a,
Kent Bullard: they've had a system that has predominantly rewarded them on them being the one that answers the question. And so there hasn't been any in my, you know, yes. Just as a guess here, I don't think there's been enough utility for them to teach others. Right,
Carl Hutchinson: right. Yeah. And well, you're giving away their time to, to teach somebody else and you know, that's, you're back to that they're not making money.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. You
Kent Bullard: know, not making Right. Hours on, right. Yeah. You're back to
Carl Hutchinson: that. What's in it for me? And we have to figure out workarounds and I've I've learned a lot in that realm. I've learned a lot of things that you shouldn't do.
Michael Smith: Well, I have a question for you. I haven't you haven about one out
Carl Hutchinson: yet either, but we're still working on it and we're Can I
Michael Smith: throw one thing in?
Michael Smith: Yeah. Before we slide away from this one. I'll tell you what a number of the folks that I work with are finding the folks that have been in our industry for 25, 30, 35 years. And, you know, if you've been under a car for 30 years, your hands hurt, your back hurt, your knees hurt. There's folks that can't pull on a wrench the way they used to.
Michael Smith: And, you know, in their minds while they're working every day is, what am I gonna do? I'm X age and what's my future look like? And I just wanna throw this out there. The older we get. The more it seems that the legacy questions become important to everybody, not just owners, and what's the legacy for your business, but also, you know, what you start to think about the people that helped you in life and the people that, that you wouldn't be where you are if it wasn't for them.
Michael Smith: And it doesn't matter what your current job is or been seminal people in your life. You ask folks who are kind of wearing out, if you will, physically, mentally, emotionally, and you say to them what? What would you like to do next? The older we get, the more we tend to get a response. You know, I would like to help the next generation.
Michael Smith: I'd like to pass along to the folks that are behind me and help them pay it forward. Like, you know, somebody paid it forward to me back in the good old days. And from that perspective, I just wanna throw that out there for thinking that, you know, there's a change in the mentality, I think, from this transactional industry that we've been in.
Michael Smith: As we realize that humans are different today, they have a lower tolerance for BS at work, which may be a good thing. We also have a lower attention span, right? That means they don't, our younger generations tend not to be thinking about, oh, I'd like to spend 10,000 hours learning this. They're like, can I just find the hack on the internet and get there short way, the mentoring things up against it, but.
Michael Smith: The folks that have got the experience would love to mentor, and in relationships that are healthy, the people who are new to the industry, it's nurturing and positive and productive to have a mentor. And so even though we're up against the social trends of the quick and easy, you find a hack and, you know, cut the corner and not really learn, but just go find the next hack online.
Michael Smith: Next time you get into this genuine mastery conversation and both ends of the spectrum, it becomes meaningful very quickly. And I'm just throwing that in there. It's kind of a mystery, mysterious conversation when you first start having it. And people look at you like you're from another planet. But the more they think about it, it actually does match our developmental psychology, as you know, as adults from childhood to death, if you will.
Michael Smith: And so it, it really does bring us back to how we're made. When we start talking about this and people aspire to it, I'm gonna say, and end here very quickly. Once you put it out there and they start to get it, they're like, you know what, I really like this suits me. And it does, it suits humans.
Michael Smith: So just encouraging us on the backside of this, that this, even though it is becoming less of a common subject if you make it a subject that's more unique, but it's also very powerful human to human. So,
Kent Bullard: so Michael, we're probably gonna have to do another podcast on this subject. Just, you know, this question I'm gonna ask you.
Michael Smith: Sure.
Michael Smith: But
Michael Smith: I'll try to keep it short.
Kent Bullard: What are how do I, how do, how does the youth, the younger generations find a mentor? That's
Michael Smith: a great question, and I would I would ask, I, you know, here's the thing. I would, it's a little bit like we talk as owners about finding the rock stars, the unicorns, the champions to come work for us.
Michael Smith: Sometimes you have to kiss some toads, and if you're a young person, and you, and I'm gonna say this Carl, you probably reflect on this too, when I'm running a business and a young person walks up to me and says, I want to learn to be great and I'm gonna ask you if you'll help me. Not a lot of people have that conversation.
Michael Smith: And does that, I mean, that sticks out in my mind. I remember those people. I can count 'em on, you know, two hands after 40, almost five years of doing this. Right? And, but those people stood out and basically they were taking charge of their life and saying, I want, I'd like to ask you if it's not too much to ask, to spend some time with.
Michael Smith: Me, and I'm not gonna be obnoxious about it. Whatever you're willing to give. But I would love to have that if you're a young person, go have that conversation with somebody who looks like they're respectable to you. And you may get into it and find out they're not Carl. Maybe one of those people that once you start mentoring and they close the door in the office and go, now how can we lie to the customer and cheat that one back so we don't end up losing all the money on that repair?
Michael Smith: And you end up as the young person kind of walking away from that going, Nope, not for me. I mean, you're fully entitled to fire a menka too here, guys. Right? But I would ask Kent. I would just simply ask, and it's not, doesn't happen enough. It doesn't happen enough that's a wearing question.
Michael Smith: It's an attractive one for an old guy. Let me
Carl Hutchinson: jump in here. I think before you Yeah, go. Yeah, for sure. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead, Carl. So I don't think I've ever asked somebody to be my mentor. But I've sought them out. I have a handful locally and then. When we got into the group process many years ago, that's what you're asking for.
Carl Hutchinson: I mean, you know, you're I didn't know that. I mean, I was trying to learn all the stuff that I thought I knew and didn't know, and then you realize you don't know it. But then all of a sudden you're thrust into this group of, and there's usually four or five of 'em in there that have achieved, and you just marry yourself to them.
Carl Hutchinson: You just gravitate to them. I've never asked one of them to be my mentor, but it didn't take a whole lot to figure it out that all of my conversations were over here or over there, or, I understand this guy's. Good at marketing or I understand this guy is a good people person. I understand this person is a good process, procedure person, and you start marrying yourselves up with these people and all of a sudden they're your mentors.
Carl Hutchinson: And you know, I have a lot of those and a lot of 'em have went on now out of the industry to do other things. And you don't. I think that's what you need to do. Don't be afraid to you know, I like the ask the question. I feel like I'm very bold and I do a lot of things, but I don't know that I would go ask somebody to be my mentor.
Carl Hutchinson: That's our challenge. But I could sure be in the room with them enough that all I'll absorb what they're putting off, I'll absorb it. And honestly, I think that's one of the things that's gotten us to where we're at, is just being in the room with people that are so much smarter and they've been there, done that.
Carl Hutchinson: Or you ask 'em a few key questions and all of a sudden now you've got an answer to something. I think we as business owners in this industry, have to make an environment of when you're hiring people in a, we've got people here that will help you. You're not gonna be stuck out on an island. It's not a, an individual sport here.
Carl Hutchinson: This is if you're gonna come in at whatever level you're coming in at, there's somebody around here that probably has a little more experience and would be willing to help you get you out of that jam. I think that's the environment that we have to create whether we have an individual person that is the mentor, which we've had in the past, and or do we have a group of people that is a mentor?
Carl Hutchinson: And I think that's where we're at right now as we go through this lean stage is we have a group, it's a group effort, and I think we're in a very much of a help everybody situation. So I think that's. The young people that are wanting to be in this industry, God bless 'em to come in. We want 'em here.
Carl Hutchinson: But if I was coming into this industry, even with all the education that I think that you can get through the colleges, I think it's, you're just barely scratching the surface now. I mean, it was so different years ago. To come in now is there's it takes so much to spool up and be where we need you to be in four or five years.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, I think you could be 4, 5, 10 years into this industry. Now, when I come into the industry, it only took you a year or six months. I mean, it just the gap is so much more now. You know, we're not learning about fuel ratios and compression ratios and stroke and bore and all, I mean.
Carl Hutchinson: Honestly, it doesn't matter. We're learning about computer controls and, you know, how do your wipers work? And honestly, all this stuff is so computerized anymore that they have to be very intelligent. It's so, so the learning gap is a lot bigger now. I mean, it's takes a lot more. So I think the answer to the question is I think we have to be the ones that create the environment of you can come in here and learn even the master technicians that we hire, you're gonna come in here and learn.
Carl Hutchinson: You may know more than everybody here, but you are, you're gonna come in here and learn because you're gonna learn and then you're gonna teach somebody else. So I think that's the environments that we have to create in this industry. So I think that's the answer. I love that. Yeah.
Kent Bullard: So we're kind of getting at time here and I wanna do kind of a lightning round with you, Carl.
Kent Bullard: Okay. Oh man. Is that fair? That's fair. These are gonna, some big questions come. I don't have to date you at the
Carl Hutchinson: end of this, do I?
Kent Bullard: No. I think so, so three questions. Okay. First one, how has focusing on the human side of your business changed you as a leader?
Carl Hutchinson: It's made me more of a thoughtful leader.
Carl Hutchinson: I think. I think I would have to ask the people around me. I think I've softened my position a lot on some of the, what I would call my demands or my requests. I think I hire differently now than what I did in the past. I think I interview a little differently. I think our conversations that we have maybe not quite structured as opposed to more getting to know you, finding out what you're wanting to do and can we marry that up with what we're trying to achieve.
Carl Hutchinson: And really find out what's important to people. You know, 'cause that's, it's so different from employee to employee every, you, there's so many things that are different and finding out those things. So I think that's probably one of the biggest things that has changed me and honestly I'll give kudos to Michael on this one, is telling people that they are better than what they think they are because they've been told incorrectly.
Carl Hutchinson: And to get that out of their heads. So every time I hear these negatives is to reinforce them with positives. And, you know, I think I'm also telling myself that as I'm telling them, because I've heard so many of these things over the years. I think we all have. So I think those are one of the biggest changes in the way I view what I do and our teams.
Carl Hutchinson: Check that box. What
Kent Bullard: advice? Yeah. What advice would you give to other leaders that are aiming to create a workplace culture that is gonna prioritize wellbeing and growth and personal development?
Carl Hutchinson: Gosh, what advice would I get? I would think figure out what you want and who you are first. And I'm only saying this because I'm going through this myself.
Carl Hutchinson: I thought I knew who I was, but I also know what we were portraying. And the two are different and I'm trying to figure out how to marry those. And I think we, and I think I'm going down that path. I think I'm starting to live that path a little better. So I think figuring out who you are and what you want to portray it is a team concept, but the team is only as good as the leader.
Carl Hutchinson: So if the leader doesn't believe in what they're doing, I think we're really struggling right off the bats. And I'm just saying this because this is where I'm at. So once you figure out what you want and who you are, stick to your guns. I think that's it. Because there's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna fall off the bus, the boat, whatever the heck you wanna call it.
Carl Hutchinson: I think there's gonna be a lot of people that's going to fall off. They may not like the direction that you want to go, or they may not be willing to go where you're wanting to go. And that's some of the things that I've learned in this past year or so is, don't be afraid to lose some of the people because you will find people that will fill the void.
Carl Hutchinson: Your people will fill that void and then you haven't found, you haven't hired the person yet. You haven't met the person that you need yet. And you'll get through it. And I think that's the biggest thing. And I'm only saying that because I have to speak that to myself. 'cause I'm in that boat.
Carl Hutchinson: I'm in that same position as we're in this evolving position of really trying to figure out, well, I need to get back to our roots of where this business came from and get back to what got us here. And I think that's going to shake it up a little bit. And don't be afraid to put yourself out there.
Carl Hutchinson: I think that's the best advice that I could give anybody at this point.
Kent Bullard: I love that. Last question. You know, what do you hope to leave in your organization and your community and beyond for your legacy?
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. Legacy's a great thing. You know, and I'm trying to get away from these truth tapes that, that stuck in my head.
Carl Hutchinson: Yeah. The old messages of the new one. The old messages, yeah. You know, the uneducated guy that, you know, you know, if you work really hard, you'll eventually get there. It might take 40 years, but you'll get there. And honestly, the legacy that I wanna leave is not about me. The legacy that I wanna leave is about those that I leave behind.
Carl Hutchinson: The complete automotive name. I would love to see that. The rest of my life here on Earth and into the next generations and the next generations. But I think that's asking a lot. I think the legacy that I wanna leave when I step outta this industry is that we've left people behind that have the same passion, morals, and ethics and views that I have and that I've been brought up with.
Carl Hutchinson: And I think that's the best legacy that I wanna leave because I just keep thinking that it's not about me. It's not about complete automotive, it's not about it's just not it. It's the people that are around us and the, and what we're gonna do. You know, I would, I like to be as famous as Coca-Cola or Disney prob.
Carl Hutchinson: Then again, yes, but no, I'm not willing to put that much effort into it. So I think that's the legacy that I wanna leave, is the people behind me, they can be proud of what we've done and proud of what they're doing, that they're stepping into. I think that's probably the biggest, the best legacy that I could leave is not only for our community, for the people, but for our industry also.
Carl Hutchinson: You know, I think there, there's a lot of people that come and go in this industry and there's a lot of people that do it dis disservice to it and really make it tough for the rest of us that are trying to do well and not just make money at it and not just whatever, you know, we're actually trying to grow people and to be a good service service to our community.
Carl Hutchinson: So I really think that's a legacy that I really wanna leave. Legacy is a tough question because six months from now it might change, but I think that's where I'm at on, on this ones. That's what I want people to speak. At my funeral about, that's what I want people to speak about. Not only me, but the people that, that I've trained or brought in, that they have that same type of outlook on life.
Carl Hutchinson: So, yep,
Michael Smith: it'll play that out. Great answer.
Kent Bullard: Well, from, you know, what it takes to hold a team accountable to our perspectives on failure, all the way to does, do you have a hobby? And what is it? This has been such a tremendous conversation. I definitely would love to bring you back, Carl, to dissect some of these things.
Kent Bullard: Even just the idea of, you know, what is mentorship? How do we pursue it from both ends, I think would be a phenomenal conversation to have. Absolutely. This has been absolutely invaluable. Those of you who are listening to this and have found value in this conversation, please help share this with others like and share.
Kent Bullard: It helps the algorithm, but most importantly, it gets this content to people who need it. If you want more information about what we do at the institute, you can find that at we are the institute.com. And Carl, thank you again so much for your time today.
Carl Hutchinson: You're welcome. Truly, honestly I enjoy speaking about the industry.
Carl Hutchinson: I don't necessarily like speaking about myself that much
Michael Smith: for you. I start seeing in my room ears, which for clinical learning experiences, right? So. Right, right. Carl, this is awesome. Thank you. All
Kent Bullard: of this, all of this is a part of a grander conversation. And again, those listeners out there who wanna join the conversation, please ask your questions. Let's continue this discussion in the comments below, and we'll see you guys in the next episode.
 

170 - Ask Me Anything: Financial Education and What the Numbers Are Really Telling You

170 - Ask Me Anything: Financial Education and What the Numbers Are Really Telling You
November 19, 2025 - 00:55:59
 
Show Summary:
This AMA with Cecil Bullard, Founder, and Wayne Marshall, CEO, dives deep into the financial realities shop owners face and how to interpret the numbers that drive the business. They open by addressing slow seasons and share practical strategies for building consistent car count long before the dips happen. Cecil and Wayne break down the roles of internet marketing, SMS outreach, community engagement and long-term relationship nurturing so owners stay top of mind when customers need help. They clarify how to build preferred customer programs, how to track ROI across marketing channels, and why added value attracts stronger clients than discounts. The conversation moves into financial structure as they explain proper P&L layout, separating labor categories, and how technician, advisor and admin expenses should flow through the business. From pay plans and KPIs to accrual vs cash accounting, they show how to read trends rather than reacting to one-month swings. They wrap with guidance on staffing, capacity-based sales goals, and why high-performing shops anchor their decisions in clear data rather than assumptions.
 
Host(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
Wayne Marshall, CEO & Industry Coach
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:00] - Cecil and Wayne kick off the AMA and dive into how shops should prepare for slow seasons long before they arrive.[00:01:27] - Cecil explains how pre-booking appointments and preferred customer programs stabilize car count.[00:03:03] - They discuss using events, community involvement and customer touch points to fill traditionally slow months.[00:05:25] - Wayne covers why consistent marketing beats stop-and-start efforts tied to car count.[00:06:52] - Cecil outlines the two sides of marketing: capturing today’s buyer and staying top of mind for future needs.[00:10:36] - They break down how preferred customer programs increase average repair order and long-term loyalty.[00:15:04] - Cecil explains why online marketing outperforms direct mail and how to watch ROI by channel.[00:20:31] - Wayne and Cecil clarify how to separate labor, parts and advisor costs correctly on a P&L.[00:23:37] - Cecil walks through target margins, expense percentages and the structure of a healthy composite.[00:33:55] - They discuss how to interpret financials using cash or accrual accounting without being misled by timing delays.[00:41:10] - Cecil shares staffing ratios, when to add admin roles and how to calculate their impact on labor rate and capacity.[00:43:20] - Cecil explains the daily KPIs he watches and why certain metrics should only be reviewed weekly or monthly.[00:52:14] - They address phone scripts, objection handling and how structured communication builds higher sales consistency.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Cecil Bullard: Welcome to the Institute's Ask Me Anything. My name is Cecil Bullard, founder of the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and coach Presenter. And today we have with us Wayne Marshall, who is our relatively new CEO. And he does coaching with us. Also started out as a coach and then we.
Cecil Bullard: Needed his help in some other areas, and so he got I, I don't know if I'd call it a promotion. It might be a demotion actually to.
Wayne Marshall: Level of service. It's just a level of service.
Cecil Bullard: If you are with us online we appreciate you being here. Please put your questions in the chat. I will do my best to pay attention, but we actually have a couple of people off site off camera that are looking at that, and they'll be popping those questions up as we, we need those.
Cecil Bullard: I've got a few questions that were asked to start. Quick tips for when times are slow. I think marketing is always a bit of a challenge, Wayne and right now, I think because of the government slowdown, there was a period where, you know, about a month where things were a little slower. I'm gonna tell you, first of all, don't wait for times to be slow, to be marketing.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause it's too late at that point in time. There are things that you can do if you have a good customer base. Number one book the appointment. Book the next appointment. You're the professional, you're the one that knows be like the dentist start booking your customer's next appointments, and if you want, give them a reason to do that.
Cecil Bullard: At my shops, we had a preferred customer program and part of the preferred customer program was booking their next appointment when they needed to have the car in for service. We had a 6,000 mile. Six month service schedule for our clients. And so number one, start now booking the next appointment.
Cecil Bullard: And if you do that, we had we had six to seven appointments booked per day and a 92% show up rate of our clients under that circumstance. I think there are some things you can do if you're already out there in social media or if you are. Regularly hitting your clients with some type of an email that they are looking at or opening or you're setting, sending some messaging through their texting.
Cecil Bullard: I know that we looked at our pattern. So when were we traditionally slow? November had traditional October, November had traditionally been a slow time for our shops. When we looked at that, we. Looked at events that were going on. The city had a pretty big event in October and we supported that event.
Cecil Bullard: We participated in that event and we actually did a shop where we had the event. We brought the event into our shop. And so we ended up having between three and 400 people in our shop in mid-October for an event between the Chamber and the BNI group that we belong to. And that made our Novembers our, that finished our Octobers out really strong and made our Novembers very strong.
Cecil Bullard: So within a year we were able to, because we were aware of the fact that November was a slow month, we were able to do some things that made November a much stronger month for us. And actually November became one of our strongest months. I think if you're, it's like, oh no, I just don't have any cars.
Cecil Bullard: There are things that you can do. We did a, I did a pizza thing once. I just called the, one of the local pizza shops and I said, I wanna buy 10 you know, large pizzas with everything on 'em. What's it gonna cost me? And I sent a message out to my clients, Hey you know, it's February's a little slow for us, so we're gonna do something we don't normally do.
Cecil Bullard: If you make for the first 10 customers that make an appointment they're gonna get a large pizza at Giovanni's Pizza Place. And believe it or not, we made 19 appointments within about an hour. Sending that out. And it was funny 'cause I said 10, and when number 11 came on board, I said congratulations, you're number 10.
Cecil Bullard: And when number, you know, 14 came on board, I said, congratulations, you're number 10. We booked 19 appointments. Now if you're doing stuff like that and you're doing it kind of continuously that you can't make a business on that. You need, a website company that does good, S-E-O-S-E-M good local search et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And you can't, I love the shops that say, Hey, we're really busy right now, so we're gonna cut our marketing. We don't do that even when we're busy. We don't cut our marketing, and especially when we're not busy, we don't cut our marketing. So, Wayne, do you have anything to add there?
Wayne Marshall: We got a couple questions, but Yes.
Wayne Marshall: On what you just shared, Cecil, you're correct. Consistency. People get busy, they quit marketing or like, Hey, I don't have to do this. I got car counts, I got bookings, you know, out three, four weeks. No, you gotta keep marketing. Be consistent. Keep the message going, stay top of mind, and you know, and as people talk when it comes to what works and what doesn't.
Wayne Marshall: I see one of the questions was internet marketing versus SMS marketing more efficient. Some of that depends, and I always tell people, you know, kind of pay attention to what people are asking. If a customer comes in and it's part of your intake. What's one of the first thing your service advisors are asking?
Wayne Marshall: How do you wanna be communicated with? Do you want me to call you? Do you want me to text you? Do you want me to email you? If you're being told that, well, I like to be text. Make a note of that because that's telling you that SMS marketing or text messaging them and doing other things might be more effective for that particular client over some other things.
Wayne Marshall: So you've gotta look at your data, which you can get within your CRM. But yeah, the biggest thing is the consistency of what you're doing and how you're doing it. And don't stop. Don't stop. And
Cecil Bullard: so I, in that particular question that we just had you know, internet or SMS I'd like to answer that question a little more completely.
Cecil Bullard: There's two types of things that I'm trying to do with marketing. Number one, I want to capture the person that needs auto repair. So that person is going to, if they don't already have a shop, they're gonna go online and they're either gonna go to Google or one of the search engines and they're gonna say, you know, where do I find.
Cecil Bullard: Toyota repair or Toyota service, or how do I find someone to check my check engine light or whatever that is. That's someone that has a problem today, money in their hand, and they're looking for somebody that is internet marketing. And that's one aspect of who I'm trying to find. Right? And so I need to have that.
Cecil Bullard: But I'm, I also. Need to be top of mind. And that is more SMS marketing is more top of mind. So social media is more about getting my name out there so that when you need something, you remember my name, you know who I am. So, you know, if you if you never thought about coaching and you said to yourself, all of a sudden, oh my God, I'm going broke.
Cecil Bullard: I need a coach. And you went online and said, you know, who are the best coaches? You know, I'm going broke. How do I find a coach? I want to show up there. I want the institute to come up there. But I also want you to have seen things about the institute. So our YouTube channel, our our social media stuff that we do our regular emails being a part of our institute group.
Cecil Bullard: Because when you go to look for that coach, I want you to say, oh. Those institute guys, I've heard about them. I know who they are. I feel comfortable with them, and I'm, and that makes you more likely to then select me and show up at my place. So it, marketing is not necessarily one or the other.
Cecil Bullard: Marketing is, you know, I'm probably doing seven or eight things at any given time. So I have a website that's maintained by somebody that knows how to do that. I have sEO, search engine optimization, et cetera. I have social media. I, I book the, my customer's next appointment. I work within the community.
Cecil Bullard: I'm involved with BNI, chamber, rotary things like that. And so I, I also have a CRM that is sending my customer database information routinely. Maybe three, four times a month. Once a week a client will get something from me that reminds me that I, them, that I'm here and it reminds me of their name.
Cecil Bullard: So marketing is. I mean, I believe first of all that most shop owners are not qualified to do their own marketing. We love to, we're do it yourselfers. And I would just tell you, how do you feel when one of your clients who's not qualified to work on their car, works on their car, then brings it to you and says, oh, it won't run, fix it.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And yet we kind of do the same thing. I need to have someone that knows what they're doing, do my marketing, and I believe that marketing is an important part of a long-term successful business that makes a profit consistently. Okay. So, Hey Michael, you got another question for me there, brother?
Cecil Bullard: Eric Se, and by the way, I think that was Cheyenne if I mispronounce your name. Thank you for that question. Cheyenne. We have Eric seven. Hey Eric. Good to hear from you Bob, brother. Can you speak more about preferred customer program? What is the reason what you think most people booked and came back in?
Cecil Bullard: Our preferred customer program gave our client two car washes a year, two loaner cars a year. We did a windshield treatment as part of a preferred customer program, and we did bring the price of our minor service, which at the time 12 years ago, 14 years ago, was $165 down by $25 as a preferred customer.
Cecil Bullard: And the reason why. Was because we knew when preferred customers came in that their average apparator was a few hundred dollars higher than our normal, average appar of 800, whatever it was at the time. And so we were able to say if I gave them $25 as part of that program I asked everyone at the counter, if you wanna be a preferred customer my.
Cecil Bullard: Service advisors asked every single person, Hey would you like to become a preferred customer? We'd like to hear about that program. I think we even had some buttons printed that said, ask us about our preferred customer program, et cetera. And so then they said, well, okay, what is it? And we said, well, we give you to loaner cars and to car washes.
Cecil Bullard: So when your car comes in, we wash it. When you leave it, you have a clean car, which by the way. We did anyway, so all by putting it into a preferred customer program, we made it more formalized and we printed a card out for them that was a punch card that they had. And frankly, if you didn't bring your punch card, I'd still give you a loaner car or whatever if you were a preferred customer because you were gonna spend $1,100 on your car every time you came in.
Cecil Bullard: And so by creating a preferred customer program, I was also during that conversation, able to say and preferred customers book and keep their next appointment within, you know, 30 days. So, you know, we're gonna schedule an appointment for you six months from now. We don't, we know you don't know what you're doing and so, we're gonna send you a message three weeks before and three days before we're gonna call you.
Cecil Bullard: And if we need to reschedule, it's not a problem. We just need to know that three days before so we can plan our schedule and then we just reschedule 'em. And and so that was our preferred customer program and I think it was a really good, thing, no, I did not incentivize, I did not incentivize my service advisors to book future appointments or reward them part of their pay plan.
Cecil Bullard: I mean, my service advisors, you know, again, 14 years ago, were making 150,000 a year. They were getting paid exceptionally well. So, you know, there are things I'm an old guy. You can tell the white hair et cetera, and, you know, I just. Sometimes feel like it's your job, right? And so we book our customer's next appointment and we had an expectation of that and that was part of the job and it became a process and a habit that we did all the time with our clients.
Cecil Bullard: So thank you again, Eric, for the follow up. Anything else to add there, Wayne?
Wayne Marshall: No. But I agree with you. It's their job. And they get incentivized by selling the service, the work on top of what they're already doing. So it's about building it for everybody. Everybody wins type of thing, but that's part of their job.
Cecil Bullard: The other. The other part of that is, is preferred customers are more likely to buy. Their easy, easier to handle. You already have trust with them, so they're better for the service advisor. It's just easier to deal with that particular person all the way through. So if you don't have a preferred customer program, man, I would certainly think about that as part of what I do.
Cecil Bullard: Let's throw another one in. So this is if I mispronounce your name, just ignore it. I'm sorry. I apologize. I'm gonna say Isa Tola, how often do you send out mailers and how often do you send text blasts? We use shop Genie and Tech Metric. I don't, I'm not a big mailer fan. And so today I look at return on investment on mailers and return on investment on dollars spent online.
Cecil Bullard: And I was just looking at with a client yesterday. I think online we have a. Almost a five to one return on investment. On our lowest and on our highest, we have about an 18 to one return on investment on our online marketing dollars spent on our direct mail or mailers. We have like a half a percent, like a one to one ROI, maybe a one and a half to one ROI.
Cecil Bullard: So if I have a thousand dollars or $2,000 and I can spend it here and get $3,000 back, or I can spend it. Over here and get $5,000 back. I'm always gonna spend it where I can get $5,000 back. If you are gonna do text messaging or emails to your client base, one of the things you have to be concerned with is I don't want to send so many emails that they take me out of the system.
Cecil Bullard: And I would tell you that if you're sending probably more than two a week. That's probably too many and you're gonna get pulled from the system. So, you know, I kinda like maybe four a month, one a week. And sometimes that's difficult from our end because we'll have, you know, our normal stuff. Then we'll have some special thing like we're gonna do this event and that.
Cecil Bullard: And we'll have a class at the same time. So you might see two or three from the institute in a week, but you're not gonna see two or three from the institute in a day. 'cause we know you're gonna X this out. So you wanna be careful about how mu often you hit your clients and you don't want to overload that.
Cecil Bullard: You also don't want to, primarily if I'm going to use discounts as a way to bring people in. I don't wanna use discounts with the customers I already have because they're the ones that are most likely to spend the most money. I want to use discounts if I'm going to with the customers. I don't have as a reason for someone to come in and try us out.
Cecil Bullard: And I still, even though if I'm gonna do that, I'm still talking about added value. Things like loaner cars and rental cars and great warranties and things like that, both on my website and in anything I'm gonna do. Wayne, back to you, brother. Yeah,
Wayne Marshall: I guess the thing I would say, as we all know, if I'm sending an email or a text.
Wayne Marshall: You have to give people the option to opt out. So pay attention to your data. If you're sending out with frequency and you're not, you're seeing low opt-outs, you're probably okay. But if all of a sudden your frequency goes up and you start seeing a lot more people drop out, that's telling you, look, they're opting out because they're getting too much.
Wayne Marshall: The other thing when it comes to frequency of, and what you're doing, be it direct mail or anything. The reason certain things work better over others sometimes just comes down to what the offer is. And so again, pay attention to what the data's telling you. If I offer X and I see this return and I offer Y and I don't see as good and I offer Z and it's really bad, well obviously don't do Z again, but think about what's working and what responses you're getting.
Wayne Marshall: Same with direct mail. You know, I tell people if you send a direct mail. Piece on anything. It doesn't have a good call to action that you can see that card, you know, bring this card in for X and they don't bring the card back in. You're still gonna honor it, but, you know, get good data of what's working and what's not.
Wayne Marshall: Too many people just throw it out there and then don't track it. And that's the biggest thing of, you know, if you're gonna do it, track it, get the data, understand what's working and what's not.
Cecil Bullard: And I think you get the excuse, I've heard the excuse. Well, it's kinda hard to tell if they came online. And so anyone that came to me and said, Hey, I found you on the web, I ask a second question.
Cecil Bullard: Do you mind, you know, if I ask you another question, what. Specifically directed you to us. And that helps me determine, and then I get the best data I can and I make the best decisions. Wayne is talking about like AB testing, meaning that I have two messages that I send out and then I see what the return is.
Cecil Bullard: So this is one offer, this is another. And when we're talking offers, an offer can be a lot of things. It doesn't have to be a discount or a. You know, $25 off or something like that. It can be you know, if you come in off of this, you get a pizza, it can be if you come in off of this, you're gonna get a extended warranty on your card added value services.
Cecil Bullard: And I always believed, and I think the data supports that customers that are attracted to added value services are better customers that will spend more money on their car than per se customers that are attracted by discounts. Okay. I don't know what the next question is, Wayne, but why don't you let's see.
Wayne Marshall: Well, Levi, I've good to see you're with us. Levi had the privilege to talk to you and Sally I'm a firm believer and I think Cecil, you will agree, you need to separate those out on your p and l because your tech pay is part of what you're doing when it comes to the services being offered. And that's gotta be part of that cost when we're looking at our gp.
Wayne Marshall: The other costs that you have for advisors, that's an expense that's part of your overall operating expense. So when we start talking about those ratios of trying to get to 63 to 65% gp, your tech pay is in that top with the parts, what the revenue was minus these things. So you can see where. That return is coming and the advisors, yeah, I wanna show them separate.
Wayne Marshall: That's the cost of doing business as part of your overall overhead and expense of operation. Wanna
Cecil Bullard: add? They also, yeah, they also have different margins. So my, my. And I also want to measure my business based on, you know, parts and labor and based on sales expense and marketing expense. Even. I look at my banking expense cost separately than all the other exp expense.
Cecil Bullard: I don't just put that in the fixed expense pile because I want to know that I'm not paying, you know, three and a half percent for my credit cards. I want to know that I'm paying. 1.8 because there are companies that will get me 1.8 and if I'm gonna run a million dollars through credit cards, you know, 1.2, that's a substantial amount of additional profit for my company.
Cecil Bullard: Let me draw this out. We kind of got a new thing so. I'm going to draw this out with my unsteady hand. One sec here
Wayne Marshall: with this is on, it's been a pay plan for service advisors, so you could probably do a little of this at the same time.
Cecil Bullard: Right. So I have parts in labor here, and I want parts to be about 18% of my sales.
Cecil Bullard: And I want a margin on my parts of about 50 8%. If I don't break it out, I can't tell what the margins are and I also don't know what percentage of sales it is. My labor cost, which is my tax, and we'll call that a loaded labor. My tech cost is gonna be about 20% of my sales and I want my margin on my tax loaded FICA feta workers' comp to be about 64%.
Cecil Bullard: And then also my parts should be about 45% of what I sell, and my labor should be about 55%, and that would give me a cost of goods of 38%. I'm sorry. If my writing's a little sloppy and an overall margin gross profit of about 62%. Now, by the way, that's 62% with my labor cost in there. That's not 62%.
Cecil Bullard: Only with parts cost and no labor cost. And then under here, then I have marketing, I break marketing out so I can measure it better. That's marketing, by the way, if you're online, let's see here. Let me let me see if I can't make that a little clearer for you.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, that's marketing and I want that to be somewhere between six and 9% of sales. I have my sales cost, my service advisors, whoever's selling, and that's a loaded cost also. And I want that between eight and 10% of. My sales and then fixed expenses, which I will break up if you're one of our clients, will break up into about 12 categories.
Cecil Bullard: Fixed expenses would be 25% of my sales, which would leave me a net of just about 20% to about 24. And so that's the breakdown of what we're trying to accomplish. All right, so, we had the, another question, I think about pay plans. Yep. Where'd Wayne go? There you are. So, why don't you take the next question here, Wayne, while I try to erase the board and so it might be ready for another use here.
Wayne Marshall: The, well, the question was what's good incentive pay plan for service advisor? And I'm gonna default back to you, you're the master of, and I know pay
Cecil Bullard: plans,
Wayne Marshall: we'll explain it quicker, faster than I would be able to.
Cecil Bullard: So, you know, there's a bunch of theory behind how you pay people and you want pay plans that are motivational, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: I think if you're watching online and you're looking at changing the industry podcast or in that you're hearing about, a lot of techs complain about things like flat rate or and you're hearing maybe owners complain about hourly. Because hourly has no motivation to do more. Because if I do more, I'm still paid whatever I'm paid.
Cecil Bullard: So a salary or an hourly to me is not motivational to the employee. Flat rate is certainly motivational to the employees that can be motivated by money. But flat rate puts the whole load of the shop whether or not I have cars and work and flow on the shoulder of the technician, which I don't believe is fair.
Cecil Bullard: And so what you need is a blended program where we know that because I'm gonna have 20% of my sales be tech pay loaded, I could say to myself, you know, I'm gonna sell an hour's worth of labor. I happen to be $150, I have $30 an hour to pay that tech under that $150 an hour labor. So, that's all I can have.
Cecil Bullard: So it, I can't, excuse me. Hang on. Go back. There's two different things that we're talking about and I just got 'em mixed up of my. Total sales, 20%. So if I'm $150 an hour and I'm close to 50 50 parts in labor, I'm $300 an hour and I can afford to pay 20% of that out to a technician, which would be $60 an hour loaded.
Cecil Bullard: If I'm $150 an hour as my effective labor rate. I can afford to pay almost 40% of that, about 36. And so that would give me $70 an hour or so to pay a technician. If I hold effective labor rate very close to or above whatever my post-it rate would be at say one 50. So somewhere between, I don't know, $60 and $70 an hour loaded is what I have to pay.
Cecil Bullard: That technician that does that work, that gives me eight hours a day. I want to give my technician you know, Maslow says people that are not worried about food, shelter, things like that, can think about God and science and how to do the job better, et cetera. So I want to give my technician somewhere around 60% of what I can afford to pay them.
Cecil Bullard: So I can afford to pay $60 an hour loaded. Unload that it's somewhere around 50. So I've got a $30 an hour base rate, and I do that particularly on the clock. It's kind of like my minimum guarantee for that person. Now I have another $12, $15 that I can build in. To a bonus plan for my tech. And so what do I want from a tech?
Cecil Bullard: That's what I have to think about. And I would tell you that it doesn't matter what position you're looking at, service advisor, tech manager, parts person just did a shop foreman pay plan. The shop foreman's job is to make sure that the shop is productive and that the techs are getting educated and the problems are being handled, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: So if I can. Tie in the bonus structure to what I want from a shop foreman that 12, $15 an hour, then I'm gonna get more of the behavior that I want with a technician. I really want three things. I want a technician to be productive so the more hours they put out in a day up to and above eight hours of.
Cecil Bullard: Of time and since we are use, most shops are using a multiplier on book time. We should be able to get, if we're. Eight hours a day there, I should have a decent tech be able to give me 10 that I can bill out because of the 20 to 30% multiplier I'm using on time. And so I'm gonna pay them, you know, based on that's gonna be part of their bonus.
Cecil Bullard: And I usually put three different levels of productivity where it's a dollar, an hour plus another dollar, an hour plus another $2 an hour. And then I want. Quality of work. And for me, quality of work comes from someone that's being educated, has experience, et cetera. So I want certifications either from the manufacturer, the cars that they're working on or from a SC at this point in time.
Cecil Bullard: And I know we could argue about a SC and the validity and what it means, but I think that a guy today that, you know, takes the test, takes the time to take the test and. And seeks that out, is trying to do a better job and is gonna have more knowledge. And I like that. I also have a, so I have a bonus based on maybe being a master tech.
Cecil Bullard: There's a couple dollars an hour, I have a bonus on eight to 12 hours of education per quarter. So if you're getting classes and you're taking them I'm gonna pay you another $2 an hour in your bonus structure. And the, so I might have 12 to $15 an hour built in bonuses for that person. And they get that based on production.
Cecil Bullard: So I could have a guy come in and spend 40 hours on the clock and only produce 30 hours. He's gonna lose six bucks an hour in his bonus structure, but they're still. The potential to earn six, but he's gonna earn six from education and training and, you know, maybe a longevity you've been here for a while or a comeback you know, standard that you put in place.
Cecil Bullard: And but he's gonna earn six on 30 and now the same guy comes back and the next week he produces 50 hours in a 40 hour week. He gets the $6 for productivity. He gets his $30 an hour, he also gets another six for the other bonus stuff, and now he's made 12 times 50. So $600 in a week. As an additional bonus, over and above the $30 an hour, he got paid as a base rate.
Cecil Bullard: And I'm gonna put, so wherever I build pay plans, I'm thinking about what do I want from this person? And the motivational part, which is the bonus structure part, is going to be built around what I need from that particular position. And frankly, you know, someone mentioned to you, bonus, your service advisors for booking appointments.
Cecil Bullard: Well, maybe I do. Maybe that's one of the bonus things that, that's a dollar an hour or that's a percentage of sales. You know, you get 0.05% of your sales based on the fact that you booked 90% of the clients in for a ne their next appointment. Or something like that. And I would also tell you that the rules around pay plans a whole nother class.
Cecil Bullard: We have that online at@gearfreeshops.com, but the rules around pay plans, I have to have a bonus that is enough to motivate and change behaviors. So. Here I am a, you know, a master tech in your shop. You're paying me $40 an hour and, or maybe you're paying me 60, whatever, right? And that's all well and good.
Cecil Bullard: And now you're gonna gimme a bonus. And if I work much harder, you're gonna gimme a dollar an hour. That doesn't motivate me. In fact, that's almost insulting. So you have to have bonuses that are substantial. I need to make it so that a tech could earn another $2,000 a month. If they do what I want.
Cecil Bullard: And then the other thing is the more productive your techs are, the better quality of work. The more flow, the more you sell, the more money I have to pay the tax. And when you overcome a hundred percent productivity and you start to get into the 110 and 120% productivity outta your tax, I have a lot more money than I can pay tax at that point in time.
Cecil Bullard: And that's why we structure those pay plans in that way. Okay. I probably, I hope I answered the question well. If not that we do have a pay plans class online@gearforshops.com. And there's other YouTube stuff that we have at our YouTube channel. That would get you there and give you some more information.
Cecil Bullard: Melissa Velazquez, thank you very much. When looking at your financial information, I find it difficult to navigate the issue of vendor expenses lagging behind a month from the revenue. March vendor bills are being paid in April, so it seems a bit skewed. So I'm gonna make Wayne, this is more, I mean, this is good for you, so I'm gonna let you.
Cecil Bullard: Answer this, and I hope you're gonna talk about cash versus accrual. And if I am doing cash, which is what we're talking about here.
Wayne Marshall: Yes. I
Cecil Bullard: need a, I need a bigger picture, like three months to kind of get the feel of what's really there. So, go ahead Wayne.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, Melissa, in, in the question, it's looking like what you're lagging.
Wayne Marshall: And so if a bill comes in on March 31st and you've done the service, you've done the work, you've invoiced the customer, so the customer's paid for that part, and then you get the invoice and you know, obviously a few days later from the parts vendor. And then you pay that invoice in April. If you're posting it and you're showing it in April, that's being, you're doing it on your cash flow and you're doing it based on cash basis.
Wayne Marshall: If you're on an accrual, you're, you are accruing that expense. So if you've received the revenue, you're gonna accrue the expense and still show it in March, even though you paid it in April. So it really comes down to how are you setting your books, and if you're setting your books on cash basis. You're right, it will have a lag.
Wayne Marshall: If you're setting your books as accrual. You accrue that expense even though you paid it, it's still gonna go back and show it. It's all part of what you carry as work in process or whip. And then you also have the cost of goods and services once you close out your invoice. So depending on your shop management software that you are using.
Wayne Marshall: You can choose which one you wanna do, which will also change how you choose because of like if you're tied back to QuickBooks, you can decide and you can click it on and off if you want to be cash basis or if you want to be accrual basis. So that question as I read it, and as I think about what you're asking really comes back to how you're setting your books.
Wayne Marshall: And that's what we try to address and try to talk about. So maybe we didn't, it's something for us to go back and look at our material, but it'd be a little more, I guess, specific on the differences and why you would do what you're doing and how that does affect your cash flow.
Cecil Bullard: A lot of shops do an accrual base accounting because they do get a lot of their bills in the next month.
Cecil Bullard: Many shops, however, do a cash basis accounting, so they wait till they get their bills. Then they push that expense back into the previous month so they can get a clearer picture of what really happened in the previous month. And that's a great way to do accounting, frankly. On the other hand, you may say to yourself, wow, that's a lot of work and a lot of trouble.
Cecil Bullard: And so if you're going to run a, an accrual, or excuse me, a cash basis accounting, you don't wanna necessarily look at one month, you wanna look at maybe a three month period as your norms. And that'll help you understand because every month you'll carry parts pricing or you'll carry some of your expenses into the next month.
Cecil Bullard: And if you see a bigger picture, like a quarterly picture, it'll give you a more accurate data to make better decisions. So, and you know, I don't know that accrual or cash basis, some people probably tell you accruals a little more difficult because you are going. You know, f for starting here and moving that back into the previous month.
Cecil Bullard: But once you set it up and once you decide to do it that way. It's really pretty simple and pretty automatic if you have an accounting company or a bookkeeping company that does that for you. All right, Nicole Weller. Thank you. Nicole. What is the best way to know how many admin people you need in your business and how do you calculate their salaries?
Cecil Bullard: How many admin people do I need? I think in my shop we did. 2.6 million with Fourex. This is again, 14 years ago. So, we ha obviously you need someone to do accounting. We had a part-time bookkeeping person on staff that also helped with phones. I had a parts person and with those four techs and I had two service advisors and I was the manager so.
Cecil Bullard: You know, you look at that and you say, wow, that seems like it could be a little top heavy, except we had a very high average repair order and we had 120% productivity. So the four technicians did the work of five. And I think what happens if you have more than two techs per service advisor is that you'll, if you're paying attention, you'll see that your average apparator is starting to drop and customers are starting to be penciled out further and further.
Cecil Bullard: So my car count might even drop in a day. Because my service advisor is overwhelmed and my customer service is going down because I have too many cars for that person to deal with. And so I like one service advisor to two techs. Now I've gotta have accounting people in my business and I think, you know, you might say, well, wait a minute, I'm a really small business.
Cecil Bullard: We only have one tech, and I'm the owner. And so I'm either I'm doing the accounting or my wife's doing the accounting fine. At that point in time, that's what you're gonna do. But there probably is a point in time where you look at yourself and you say to yourself, okay, I've got two service advisors and four technicians in my business, and my two service advisors are having a hard time keeping up with estimating and selling and flow in the shop, which is one of the things that just kills.
Cecil Bullard: Productivity and profitability for automotive shops, and so am I gonna hire another service advisor? Or if I hired a parts person and they took that off the shoulders of my service advisors, would that give me higher average repair orders and higher flow? I, I do know, frankly, that I look at what a shop does and I say, okay, a manager of a shop that's gonna do say 3 million in sales, that's probably someone that's gonna get paid somewhere between one 20 and 200,000 a year, maybe even two 50.
Cecil Bullard: If the margins are right, the productivity's right, and the profits are right. Again. Now I'm building a pay plan for that manager where 40% of their pay is gonna come from margins and productivity and sales, as opposed to, Hey, you're just there, making sure people do what they're supposed to do. And then, you know, for my techs, like I said technicians 20% of sales were.
Cecil Bullard: You know, about 36% of my effective labor rate for my service advisors. 10% of sales, eight to 10% of sales loaded. And then if I'm gonna have a parts person, it would depend on the size of the business as to what I could or would pay that parts person. And if I did hire a parts person, I would increase my labor rate.
Cecil Bullard: So that I could pay for that parts person and not take that outta my pocket. And so I couldn't hire a parts person at a shop that had one tech and one service advisor because I don't have the money, the flow, or any of it built up to have that. You know, that parts person. So, you know, I want to keep my admin expenses in that 25%.
Cecil Bullard: And by the way, in that 25% of fixed expenses, I also have banking costs, debt costs management costs, my salary for managing the shop and the truck and the insurance and the. Liability insurance and, you know, everything else is in that pile, the building and the equipment and, you know, debt et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And so I want to have a fairly comprehensive composite. It's not just my p and l, but another way to look at my financials. To help me understand what those percentages are and to manage those percentages. We call that a composite. And all of our clients have one of those, or have the ability to have one of those.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. I, again, I hope I answered that question. Didn't create too much confusion. So, ia Tola, what are the top four KPIs you'd like to see in your operation? And does each KPI pay the team individually? I'll answer the second part of that as not necessarily. And I'll answer the first part of that in, there's more than four KPIs that I want to see.
Cecil Bullard: So there's the daily KPIs that I like to see. What did we sell? What did we close, what did we finish? What, how much money came in? I like to see productivity daily and I like to see opportunity, what did we find on the cars and and what our average repair order is. Those are five KPIs that I look at every single day.
Cecil Bullard: Now you notice I'm not looking at margin daily. And the reason I don't look at margin like parts margin or labor margin daily is because I could have a, an engine that closes today with a 35% parts margin. And I look at that and I go, oh my God, we are, we're not getting our margins, blah, blah, blah. I personally did not look at margins parts margin or labor margin on a daily basis.
Cecil Bullard: I looked at that on a weekly basis and a monthly basis through my composite and through my p and l. And what you hope is that you have processes for estimating in play that will hold your parts margin and will hold your labor margins because of the processes that you've built within the business.
Cecil Bullard: So I gave you my daily five. I would add cell rate into my weekly. What are we selling of the opportunity that we have, what the techs are finding on the cars. I look at that because you know, a bad attitude at the service counter, all of a sudden my average repair order and my cell rate will drop.
Cecil Bullard: And that's just somebody having a bad day or maybe having a bad week. You, you just don't know. We had a cell rate and an A RO drop. And cost us $3,000 in sales a day for three days. First day I didn't worry about it. Can't, you know, short, small amounts of data are not, you don't wanna make tough decisions on small data.
Cecil Bullard: Second day it made me nervous. By the third day it was, I go, we have a problem here. Went to my service advisors, brought 'em in, had conversations with them about selling. One of the service advisors, very defensive. Calmed that down, said, Hey, you know, I just need you to really focus on sales. We gotta bring these things back up.
Cecil Bullard: Sent 'em out of my office. The average apparator went up by $400 and et cetera. And then I found out three months later that the day that our sales dropped. His wife served divorce papers on him. Didn't find out right there. He didn't want to tell me he was whatever, embarrassed, whatever it was I found out later.
Cecil Bullard: But because I'm watching that number and I'm paying attention to that number on a daily basis, I was able to potentially probably save us maybe a hundred thousand in sales during a three month period that I would've dropped if I wasn't paying attention to those KPIs. And then we have a class I hate to keep, you know, but we do have a class.
Cecil Bullard: It's, I think it's called Everything you Need to Know about Numbers and Profit in our gear for shops.com. It's not very expensive. I think it's about four hours, and it's all the formulas, all the KPIs, what you need to look at, et cetera. And that'll give you a much deeper dive than we can do here into that next question there, and I think we got about 10 minutes left, so we probably could do a couple more questions.
Cecil Bullard: Hey Andrew. How you doing brother? Wayne, why don't you why don't you go there? Sure.
Wayne Marshall: I was looking at this question as they're showing up early for us. Andrew, and yes, I always look at it, it depends on, again, if you're building out a budget or a cashflow projection, you gotta work on averages.
Wayne Marshall: The big thing is, and I think this plays into, and it's a little bit of what we got talking about earlier when Cecil was talking about credit card expenses. You know, if you're paying X or Y and you're seeing certain trends and you're looking at that as a percentage back to your overall revenue. Yeah, that's where you want to go.
Wayne Marshall: You know that you're gonna spend somewhere around one point a half to 1.8% in credit card expense. You don't know how much it's gonna be. It's gonna go up one month, depending on how many people charge to them, what people don't charge the next month. So put in the average, do that percentage. Same with utilities.
Wayne Marshall: Look, there's so many different expenses that we have that have variability. So what I would do when I had my own business. I plugged everything in and I said, look, this is what my average is based on. I think sales are gonna be a hundred thousand dollars. I think I'm gonna run one and a half percent for credit card expense, so I'm gonna put 1500 bucks.
Wayne Marshall: It's that easy. Same with your utilities as you. And then when you look at things quarterly, when you run your p and ls balance sheets, those quarterly reports, a lot of that settles out. So those ups and downs that you get from month to month now start settling out. You can see trends, you can see averages, and then really decide what you want do or not do.
Wayne Marshall: If you need to tweak something or change up what your sales goal needs to be and some of the things that are gonna be done, which plays back into a lot of what Cecil was just talking about, of what different KPIs to look at, what are some of the different trends, and this all plays in that if you're seeing something go here or here Yeah, you wanna pay attention, do I need to change it?
Wayne Marshall: Is it just something that happened for those few days? Or do I got a bigger problem that's systemic because we don't have whatever in place that gives us the right checks and balances.
Cecil Bullard: I, I would also add to that sales goals are not necessarily only set on what my expenses are. I mean, that's one portion of it.
Cecil Bullard: I want to set sales goals based on, hey, I came in this business because I want a certain amount of profit. I also want to set sales goals based on my capacity. So if I have three technicians and I'm $200 an hour, and my parts delivery ratio are. You know, 1.8 eight, 8.8 in parts for every hour of sales.
Cecil Bullard: I of labor I sell that's $360 an hour times three guys times, eight hours a day. Times 1,960 days, which is what a average technician will work taking a month off for holidays and vacation. And then I want to know what that number is, which is probably today. Two, two point something, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 million.
Cecil Bullard: And I wanna set my sales goal based on that because if I'm paying the tech a certain amount of money, a certain percentage of that is going to my tech, but my sales aren't enough. Then all of a sudden my fixed expenses become more as a percentage, my costs become more as a percentage, and I won't make the profit that I need.
Cecil Bullard: And again, I hate to say it, but man, if you really want to understand this and dig deep into it everything you need to know about numbers and profit. I'd take it and watch it five times because I'm setting my goals, not just based on what my expenses are. Obviously I have to cover my expenses and I want them to be 25% without parts labor sales cost or marketing cost.
Cecil Bullard: Because I want that 20% net. But I'm also looking at, well, I've got the capacity to do 2.4. If I only do 1.6, then my margins, my, my labor margin's gonna be very low and I will not make the profit that I wanna make. I have to know what my capacity is, and I have to set the target in sales to hit that capacity at least at a hundred percent.
Cecil Bullard: And I can't say more. It's last question. I think, and then we'll wrap it up. We're gonna do this again next month. Do you phone script, huh? Yes. I think phone scripts are great. We have oh, I hate to say it, but we have a, you know, becoming great on the phones class. That, that is I think a four hour class, very inexpensive on gear for shops.com that will tell you how to do all the phone, you know, how to think on the phone, how to answer the phone, how to book appointments, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And I think phone scripts are great. To start. And I think, you know, everybody should have a script. We answer the phone in a very specific way, you know, put a smile on our face which I'm looking at myself and I haven't been smiling much this morning, but I'm gonna answer the phone, so I'm gonna think of a great joke.
Cecil Bullard: Let me do that. Oh yeah, that's funny as heck. Good morning. Thank you for calling Larry Autoworks. This is Cecil. How can I help you today? That's a script. Okay? And that's a script that I want everyone answering the phone to use every single time that way with a smile on their face. I think you need to have scripts for people that you're training so that they understand the basics and so that they could do it.
Cecil Bullard: How do I sell a coolant flush? How do I sell a brake, flush, or brake service? You know, how do I answer? Well, that's too much. Or I can get it cheaper somewhere else. I, that's a script that once I look at the common objections that I have on the phone. Then I write scripts for those common objections, and I teach those to my staff that is gonna be dealing with those things and then they make it their own.
Cecil Bullard: So, for me it's, I want you to use the phone script enough that it's part of who you are. And then I want you to make minor adjustments to that based on your personality or on who I'm talking to. And so we're gonna make some adjustments to those phone scripts. Phone scripts can't be. Well, we're gonna do this a hundred percent of the time every single time.
Cecil Bullard: That's exactly what we're gonna do, except for, and people don't like you gotta be genuine. It's gotta be you. Yeah. So, yes I absolutely love phone scripts, but ultimately I want you to follow the script, 80%. And be genuine and move around a little bit based on who you're talking to and based on your own personality and style.
Cecil Bullard: My style, I'm a much more direct person. I'm always gonna be more direct. Your phone script, if you're a. You know, if you're a supporter or if you're a interpersonal is never gonna fit me completely. And so I have to make adjustments to your phone script to fit my director style. Alright we are gonna do this again next month.
Cecil Bullard: Michael, you're gonna put the date of that up there, I assume. And if you would like to have a business evaluation, business review. No charge, no commitment, et cetera. We're gonna put up a QR code for that. Man, I thank you all for your time today. I thank you for your questions. I think Wayne, you're not gonna be with me next time, but Michael Smith will be here.
Cecil Bullard: It might
Wayne Marshall: three of us,
Cecil Bullard: so yeah. All, all right. That'd be great. Then somebody's never gonna get to talk, that's for sure. So, but yeah, it could be all three of the, of guys from the institute. So thank you very much for your time. Stay tuned for the for the QR code and the date of the next class.
Cecil Bullard: Thank you very much.

169 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil & Lucas: Culture, Accountability and Real Leadership

169 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil & Lucas: Culture, Accountability and Real Leadership
November 12, 2025 - 01:12:13
Show Summary:
What starts as a casual catch-up between Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard quickly turns into a no-filters AMA on the realities of running a modern repair shop. Together they examine why stepping back onto the counter resets an owner’s perspective, and how broken estimating routines quietly rob advisors of hours they can never get back. The conversation cuts into emotional discounting, “hero” pricing, and the financial chaos that follows when shops try to save everyone but themselves. Cecil and Lucas break down the power of documentation, signed warranty terms, and photo-backed repair validation when customers push back or chargebacks hit. Culture becomes the centerpiece as they discuss boundaries, accountability, and removing toxic influences before they shape the entire shop. The AMA winds down with straight talk about coaching, long-term planning, and why shops that prepare now will be the ones standing strong as the industry shifts.
 
Host(s):
Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:00] - Lucas and Cecil open the AMA and talk about why owners should revisit the front counter.[00:02:00] - Cecil explains how broken estimating processes drain advisor time.[00:03:58] - Lucas describes how weak training turns procedures into the “telephone game.”[00:07:15] - They discuss why repair shortcuts almost always lead to comebacks.[00:08:45] - Cecil and Lucas highlight the dangers of emotional discounting.[00:13:10] - Lucas shares his “cash on the counter” exercise for pricing confidence.[00:26:01] - They address a stopped $9,000 check and stress the need for signed warranty terms.[00:33:20] - Cecil explains how photos and torque marks protect shops in disputes.[00:33:58] - A culture question leads to insights on accountability and standards.[00:57:43] - They wrap with advice on hiring a coach and preparing for industry shifts.
 
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Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Lucas Underwood: Hello folks. My name is Lucas Underwood with the Changing The Industry podcast, and I am a shop owner, l and n Performance out here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina. I am so excited today to be joined by the one, the only Mr. Cecil Bullard. Cecil buddy. How you doing today?
Cecil Bullard: Howdy Brother? I'm great as usual.
Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I'm back in the shop working today. That's, and as you know, it's been a little bit I remember why I hired people now.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Like it's a reminder.
Cecil Bullard: It's a good idea every once in a while to get back on the front counter, just to stay grounded a little bit. I think. For
Lucas Underwood: sure.
Lucas Underwood: I, you know, I see that a lot. I see a lot of a lot of owners who will go to a training class. They will go and be involved in something and they'll come back and they'll say, I want you to do this, and I want you to do this, and I want you to do this, and I want you to do this. And I'll ask 'em. I'll say, Hey, could you imagine doing that?
Lucas Underwood: Like, seriously, could you imagine being on the front counter? And doing all of the steps that you just shared. And they'll say, well, I'm, I pay people for that. Okay, I understand, but I'm just saying like, let's say that tomorrow if you were, yeah. If you were on the front counter, tell me how that would work out for you.
Lucas Underwood: And he's like, oh, that would be miserable. Like maybe you should think about this process before you implement it. Right.
Cecil Bullard: Funny thing too, you know, if you look at service advisors, they, in my opinion, that's probably the toughest job in the shop being the service advisor. Absolutely. So much going on that you're trying to organize, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And they believe that they're really busy and they are really busy.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And so now you have an owner that comes in, comes to a class of mine or whatever, and goes in and goes, okay, hey, I want you to do these three things. And you're like, if you're the service advisor you're saying to yourself.
Cecil Bullard: Well, when and how would you like me to do those? Because right now I'm tied up.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And instead what we need to be doing is we need to be going, okay, how do we make you less tied up?
Lucas Underwood: For
Cecil Bullard: sure. So for instance, if you don't have a really good estimating process in your shop
Lucas Underwood: Then
Cecil Bullard: your service advisor is going out to the shop and talking to the techs, and every time they walk out to the shop and talk to the techs, that's 15 minutes, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yes. Yep. And so if you do that, say eight or 10 times, you've just killed two, two and a half hours of the day, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep, a hundred
Cecil Bullard: percent. And so instead of looking at your processes and going, oh, this one is not very efficient, this doesn't work Well, if we created a more efficient estimating process where the service advisor never had to really go out in the shop and look at the car or talk to the tech.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: That would save two hours of time. Now you could be doing some of the other stuff that you might need to be doing or want to be doing. I th you know, I think it's unfair to walk in and go, okay, here's five more things. Now we're yeah. Instead, you know, and we do this on A-A-C-E-O level. You know, what can I give away?
Cecil Bullard: Right? What do I do that I shouldn't do? Or what do I do that someone else? Probably could do or should do. And you know, I'm, I want to delegate that out so that I have the time to do things that are on a different level. Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep. Well, and you're so right and one of the things that I've noticed is that process builds garbage, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like through the daily basis of doing what we do, especially you have an advisor and I'm gonna tell you something this is not automotive specific. This is any business. No. Yeah. And I made a video about this, I don't even know if I've released it yet, but I was talking about the family business and, you know, what's happened with that?
Lucas Underwood: And it's this big mess, right? And so I was talking about it the other day to them and I said, Hey, like I see all these processes and I see all these policies, and I see all these procedures. Why is everything such a mess? Why is it like, why do we not do those things anymore? Because somebody put a lot of work into making this happen.
Lucas Underwood: They said, well, what happened was is it was trained once and then it was given to the employees to train the next employees. Who then train the next employees, who then train the next employees and it became the telephone game.
Cecil Bullard: But you have to, if you have policies and procedure, when you have policies and procedures,
Lucas Underwood: yeah,
Cecil Bullard: you need to have regular procedure review.
Cecil Bullard: Meaning, yes, are we doing it? Are we still doing it? Are we doing it correctly? Is it efficient? A random change, something change. Yeah. Yeah. And so what, every employee, everybody's going, well, wait a minute, if we did it this way instead of that way, it would be simpler, it would be easier, it'd be easier for me, or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Instead of having a, like a formalized. How do we get this done? Yeah. Where we're sure that it really made a difference where we're sure that it was better and where we're Sure now that everyone's being taught the same way. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And so what happened was is you ended up with this little bit of garbage.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Imagine a desk and there's all these crumpled up papers all over it. And so, you know, it's like you go and you talk to 'em and they say, well we've always done it this way. Yeah. And you work through the process and you can find where it happened at.
Cecil Bullard: Well you're
Lucas Underwood: managing that
Cecil Bullard: process. Yeah. We're creatures of habit.
Cecil Bullard: And so whenever I bring something new into the shop or into the business, I need to create a habit, right? Yes. And then I can bring in one of the problems with bringing in like really strong employees. You know, you bring someone that's really got good willpower for a service advisor manager. That's what I want.
Cecil Bullard: I want a really strong person.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: But when I bring a strong person in, one of the problems with that is. Let's change this. Let's do it my way instead of the way that a shop has done it does it. And sometimes that's good and sometimes that's not good. You have to be there or someone does have to be there.
Cecil Bullard: And paying attention to when it's not good. And also recording the new process, if that's the new process.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: And then you had a, you did something. I was gonna make a joke when you were saying, I don't know if I've released it yet. I don't know how you could tell you probably release like 27 things a day.
Cecil Bullard: So I don't know how you do anything else but then you have owners or managers, you know, high powered people that go, well, I'll I won't follow that process, right? Yes. Okay. This time, because I can make that decision, right. I, it's
Lucas Underwood: mine.
Cecil Bullard: I'm the guy. I
Lucas Underwood: can do this if I want.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I can do it however the heck I want.
Cecil Bullard: And unfortunately I think you and I were kind of talking before this, but you know, so when we did breaks in my shop
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: You know, we cleaned we cleaned the calipers up the slides, made sure they worked properly, clean the practice. We put new hardware, new pads and new rotors, period.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Okay. Unless it was like some giant. Dodge Diesel truck that had, you know, super, super inboard mount that you
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. That you could, or that it was built that way, right? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Other than that, new pads and rotors. Well, you know, the one time that the owner wants to save somebody some money and they go, okay, I'm not gonna put new rotors on this.
Cecil Bullard: The rotors are. They're okay. They're close enough, blah, blah, blah. I'm gonna save my pal some money, my buddy.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: That's the time that it bites you in the ass.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: You know, and
Lucas Underwood: Never fail,
Cecil Bullard: man. And you get yourself in trouble. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Well, and it happened just this morning. That's where the conversation came from is I've got a friend, Scott reached out to me and he said, Hey, Lucas I, man, I wanna go back and read a comment that you made about something.
Lucas Underwood: And I said, okay, what's up? He said, you were talking to this lady and she was talking about how somebody had purchased a car. They bought this car, they brought it in, it overheated before they left. It, it was just like a mile down the road from the dealership. They take it back, they put a thermostat in it.
Lucas Underwood: She makes it a mile down the road, it overheats again. She starts to question what they're telling her. So they bring it to the her shop. She begins to look at this car and finds out, Hey, it's got coolant in a cylinder. Thermostats aren't gonna fix this, and it's a really expensive repair, like $25,000 and I want to help her.
Lucas Underwood: And it's like, listen, the best way you can help her is properly repair the automobile. Yes. And charge what you need to charge so you can stand behind it if something goes wrong, being the hero is not helping. And see, that was something that messed me up for years because I always wanted to be the hero, always wanted to lower the price.
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna be the hero with awesome customer service and with a properly repaired vehicle that I can stand behind. And the minute that I deviate, I break that.
Cecil Bullard: I think we all want to be the hero and we all want to help people out. I think that's one of the things that's kind of indicative of our industry.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Hey, I wanna, I'm a nice, I'm a nice guy. I really want to help people out. And so, but you know, you can't help others if you can't help yourself.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly
Cecil Bullard: right. So, I got a shop I don't, it's three or four months ago, a relatively new shop to the institute. I think they made like three grand and they discounted almost $12,000 in that month.
Cecil Bullard: And, but they made three grand. And three grand was probably two, two and a half percent net. Yeah. And so that's not a company where I could help somebody out. I can't I'm giving away so much on the front end
Cecil Bullard: That I can't make a conscious decision to say, Hey, I want to do X, Y, Z at the shop.
Cecil Bullard: The last shop I ran we had, I think the budget was 30 grand and we went down to the, one of the local churches and we said, Hey, to the pastor, we said, Hey, we have $30,000. It's our annual budget for helping. Community, you know, we know you have people in your community that need help. We want you to send them to us.
Cecil Bullard: You can decide I'll use the whole dollars. I won't pay for labor or parts. Or you can say, Hey I'll pay for the parts, you'll pay for the labor whatever you want to do. But it's 30,000 and Yeah. But you can't do something like that if you don't have 30,000 to give away. Exactly. Right. Exactly.
Cecil Bullard: And I think, you know, in, in small business, again, I don't think it's automotive specific, I think it's small business specific.
Cecil Bullard: We, we, we don't understand what our real finances, what we really should be making. What is a fair profit? You and I were kind of talking about that before.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And therefore we do this in a. Like, I'm gonna help this one or that one because they got a great story or because I know that one.
Cecil Bullard: And by the way,
Lucas Underwood: it's not enough. And by the way, everybody has a story. Okay?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Every, everybody has hard times. Everybody has things that, that is not fair. And I'm gonna tell you something, if you wake up in the morning and expect life to be fair,
Cecil Bullard: oh yeah. Well, if
Lucas Underwood: You are asking for trouble,
Cecil Bullard: you're gonna have a tough life.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. No, my, my dad, you know, my dad was one of those guys that life's a bitch and then you die. Right. You know, that was one of his sayings. Right. And
Lucas Underwood: yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And I think he certainly understood that life wasn't gonna be fair. I don't ever wake up any morning and think, oh, it's gonna be fair today.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. It's gonna be what I make it. Right. Yeah, absolutely. And I'm gonna, the other thing too, I think we all have to realize in our lives and in our businesses, they're gonna be good days and bad days. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: Be I believe because of the government shutdown that a lot of shops have had a kind of a weak month last month more so than normal.
Cecil Bullard: We look at the numbers and yeah, we got more shops down. Now all of a sudden, it's picking up now that the wonderful people we have in Congress have decided to do their job. I think you sound
Lucas Underwood: sarcastic.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Oh yeah. Trust me. I was gonna say something else, but you know, I don't, I, my daddy, my mommy said don't swear.
Cecil Bullard: It makes you look dumb. So I only do it a little bit 'cause I'm only a little dumb.
Lucas Underwood: Oh my goodness.
Cecil Bullard: But now it's coming back. But I think you have to like look at that and you have to say, that's normal. I mean, yeah, there are gonna be times when our government can't get their crap in a pile and it's going to affect us.
Cecil Bullard: There're gonna be times when things don't work perfectly. They're gonna be community situations, they're gonna be personal situations that are either gonna affect us personally or they're gonna affect our businesses. And if we're not profitable to a certain degree, I can't ride through that for sure.
Cecil Bullard: So I've got a couple of different business I got a young couple that's kind of building their business. I think we're, when they started, we were doing like 57,000. We're probably up about one 10 now consistently monthly. And I keep saying to them, put money aside. Put money in the bank, have a savings account, and they do.
Cecil Bullard: So now they put 15,000 in this account where they never had money before and something came up and it's a $4,000 cost. And you look at it and you go, oh, okay. Not too bad. I can do that. Right. And then you pull it out of the pile, you put it in, and then you build the pile back up. Right? Yes. Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And, but I, you can't do that if you're not being profitable.
Lucas Underwood: Profitable, yeah. Okay. And you know, I've got a friend, his name's John. And John is a new shop owner, right? Never ran a shop, never was a business owner, anything like that was a tech. And we were having discussions a while back and I said, you know, he would call me and he would say, Hey Lucas I've got a 30% margin on this part.
Lucas Underwood: It's really expensive. I don't know if I feel okay charging this. And I said, okay, well let me give you a piece of advice. This was given to me years ago. What I want you to do is what you think is a fair price. I want you to go get that much cash outta your personal bank account or outta the business bank account.
Lucas Underwood: And then I want you to walk back into the shop and when he comes in, I want you to walk around the front of the counter and I want you to count out a hundred dollars bills, how much you think it would take off that, and I want you to lay that down on the counter and I want you to pay it. And he said, but Lucas, I don't have that much money in my bank account.
Lucas Underwood: I said, that's my point. Exactly. Right. Like, you, those don't have the money to do this.
Cecil Bullard: And yet we, again, this is another kind of piece you and I had have kind of talked about is
Lucas Underwood: Yeah,
Cecil Bullard: so many owners are. Doing this on the fly, right? Yeah. They don't really even understand how financially prosperous the business needs to be in order to be a comfortable, safe business where you can help when you need to help or when you feel like I just absolutely have to help.
Cecil Bullard: For sure. And I always say I hate emotional discounting. Yeah. And that's emotional discounting, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: If you you know, I would tell you that you need to make 20% net profit, and if you don't have a business designed, a machine designed to make 20% net profit, then you do not have a business that is safe work, come comfortable, and you do not have a business that can help people when you need to help people.
Lucas Underwood: Listen, I'm gonna tell you something. You know, I'm a huge Warren Buffett fan. Yeah. And you know, I became one of his fans years ago. I posted this in my LinkedIn, but I became a fan of here's years ago, and I was watching a YouTube or a Yahoo Money or Yahoo Finance video, and they asked, they said, Hey, Warren, what is the best advice you've ever given?
Lucas Underwood: He said I wasn't given this advice. I was taught this advice from my dad, and he said, my dad just showed me what unconditional love was. And he said, if you can do that with a child, you're 90% of the way home. And then she said, what's the worst advice you've ever been given? He said, you know, he said, I've always kind of known what good advice was.
Lucas Underwood: He said, I'm sure I gave plenty of terrible advice. But he said, I'm gonna tell you that Tom Murphy told me 40 years ago that Warren, you don't have to tell that guy to go to hell today. You can wait and tell him tomorrow. You ought to sleep on it and think, make sure you feel the same way. And he said, I've learned that instead of making decisions and emotion, I need to make decisions.
Lucas Underwood: In fact, yeah. Now I'm gonna tell you his retirement letter, if you've not read his retirement letters, one of the most powerful things you'll ever read. Right? Because he talks about an obituary and he said, you better be writing your obituary right now because you don't want somebody else writing it based on what you didn't do.
Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And so that's something that I often think about and emotion plays into this. I had a probably two hour conversation with a shop owner day before yesterday, coming back from sema, you know, over the weekend, that kind of thing. And I happened to see it and I didn't respond to him until yesterday.
Lucas Underwood: And he said, I've got this guy, he's been working for me since October, paying him 30 bucks an hour, flat rate, 30 hour guarantee. I'm doing all these things, trying to keep this guy happy, and all he does is complain and fuss and I don't get paid for this, and that's not my job. And this isn't that. I'm like, bro, right now's the time to send him down the road.
Lucas Underwood: And he said, yeah, but this is a nice guy and I, you just don't understand, and I'm trying to help him. I'm like, there is no place for emotion in business. Right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: It's not okay to keep this person because they're toxic. They're gonna make the environment toxic. It's gonna destroy your business. But see, as business owners, we often bring emotion into the situation.
Lucas Underwood: There is no place for emotion in business. It's by the fact. And if you look at,
Cecil Bullard: would you
Lucas Underwood: Go ahead.
Cecil Bullard: Would you talk to my CEO about that a little bit?
Lucas Underwood: Your CEO is a pretty tough guy. I don't,
Cecil Bullard: yes, he is. We all are emotional beings and we all. Keep people too long and we, yeah. Allow people to do certain things and, you know, so I had a, I got tagged by one of, one of my guys, and I'm not currently coaching with him, but you know, I love the guys I've worked with over the years.
Cecil Bullard: And he said
Lucas Underwood: Yeah,
Cecil Bullard: I got an employee. This is the second time that he's lied to me. What do I do?
Lucas Underwood: Oh,
Cecil Bullard: okay. And my answer is you can't have people working for you that you can't trust. Exactly. You get one. You know, you get one. Okay, you made a mistake. I'm going to overlook this. You can earn my trust back by doing this, and this over time.
Cecil Bullard: But if you come back a second time, you lie to me a second time and it's very obvious that you lied to me and there's no out, then you can't work for me. And it doesn't matter if, you know, I love this excuse. Right? Well, yeah, but Cecil, good techs are hard to find.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And back ones are fairly easy to find.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. So you might as well just pick another one, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Pick another bad one and see if you can't change their habits. But
Lucas Underwood: oh man.
Cecil Bullard: But it's the excuses that we use to. To the, you know, to justify whatever where choice we're making. And it's often an emotional choice and not a logical, or a good business decision.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. And I'm not saying fire everybody, and I'm not saying you, you shouldn't have grace and those kind of things, but you know, if you've got a guy that's worked for you for say 60 days and all he does is bitch and complain,
Lucas Underwood: it's only gonna get worse.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You're, that's
Lucas Underwood: only gonna get worse.
Cecil Bullard: Get used to that because that's gonna be your life as long as that guy's with you
Lucas Underwood: and you can set the standard. Yeah. And this is one of the things I see everybody do, is they don't set the standard fast enough. So the very first day you can ask my team, right? Like, you step outta line down here.
Lucas Underwood: I'm not waiting to talk about it. I'm talking about it right now. And they, I used to think, oh, this is very aggressive to do that and I care about my people, so I don't want to know. Like you, you set the standard from the word go. And if you let that slide once, we're gonna see a decline. If you don't let it slide at all, we'll either hold that line or we can begin to improve and go in a better direction.
Cecil Bullard: So, you know, one of the, one of the guys that spoke at our summit said something about you may have a standard here, but you allow this behavior.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: He said, congratulations, this is your standard. That's your new standard. This is not your standard.
Lucas Underwood: You.
Cecil Bullard: And so
Lucas Underwood: you promote what you permit.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we do that almost constantly.
Cecil Bullard: Well, that guy's a nice guy, so you know, okay, he's having a bad day, blah, blah, blah.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna let this slide and then pretty soon, that's the habit. And then now that they've created the habit, everyone else is looking at that and going, well, wait a minute. I thought we had this standard here.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Obviously we don't. So if that person can act that way, then I can act that way.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: And the other thing is, I'm not gonna spend my life and I, and believe me, I have made mistakes up the Ying yang. Just many mistakes. Business mistakes, personal mistakes, life mistakes et cetera. You know? But I'm not gonna live my life thinking, oh my God, I gotta go work with that guy and it's gonna be oh and oh.
Cecil Bullard: And I know he is just gonna, you know, all he's gonna do is bitch. Today we have we have our core values, right? Our five core values and one of those, it has to be fun. And so when it's not fun, we take a look around and we go, why isn't it fun? And if that's a person, then how do we help that person modify the behavior or how do we replace that person?
Cecil Bullard: That's all there is. There's no more.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Absolutely. And we want
Lucas Underwood: time. 'cause your business will become who you allow in it.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I want timeframes around that. You know, are we gonna give this guy two weeks? Are we gonna give him two months? What's the and by the way, I'm gonna let that person know you've got two weeks, you know, pull it out.
Cecil Bullard: Hundred
Lucas Underwood: percent because
Cecil Bullard: It has to be fun. I'm gonna, you know, I tell the story. I'm not supposed to be in the automotive industry. I never thought I would be in the automotive industry. My father didn't want me in the industry. And yet I've spent 45 years here. And you know, you wake up one morning and you look in the mirror and you go, wow, that guy's old.
Cecil Bullard: Who is that dude? And it's 45 years have gone by and I'm not gonna spin, I don't know, the next 15, the next 25, whatever I have left. I'm not gonna spin that being miserable. I'm isn't worth it.
Lucas Underwood: Right. I've told this story before and I'm gonna, Gary, I promise I'm gonna answer this question. I know the car's pulling into your driveway right now, so we're gonna go to it next, I promise.
Lucas Underwood: But I am gonna tell this story. You know, here's the thing. Years ago I walked into this shop. I had a guy who was here and he tinted windows. He had a Volkswagen and there was a Volkswagen specialist in town. And I knew the Volkswagen specialist really well. He was elite. I mean, like you, you wouldn't find a technician this good on Volkswagens anywhere in the country.
Lucas Underwood: I mean, this dude was just that good. And so he was known to be a little ornery. And so I, my friend took his Volkswagen over there. He didn't know, he worked over here, didn't know anything about that. And he went to pick up the car. After weeks, he hadn't heard anything. The guy called him and said, your car's ready.
Lucas Underwood: And he's what? Like, you didn't call me with an estimate. You didn't anything you, this, that and the other. And he was really rude and really short and really abrasive. And so I said, well, I'll tell you what. I'll go over there with you and we'll pick up the car. And so we go in and he walked in first and I came in behind him and this guy's just giving him up the road and he walks in.
Lucas Underwood: I said, Hey, what are you doing? And he said, oh, not much. What are you doing here? I said, oh, he is a, he works for me. And he said, oh, well let come on back here. Let me show you what was wrong with the car. Let me show you how you can avoid this next time. And by the way, you don't owe us nothing. Don't worry about it.
Lucas Underwood: Come on back. And I was standing there and the lady at the front counter was there. And I said, what makes him like that? And she said, sweetheart, he spent his entire life of making every person who walks through that door problem, his problem. And he's bitter his ill. Yeah,
Cecil Bullard: Can't do that.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly.
Lucas Underwood: And so that's what we do when we involve ourselves in these levels. We can't fix other human beings. And so if we run our business by the numbers and by the facts, it eliminates this emotional attachment that's unhealthy. Right.
Cecil Bullard: So, so that I'm a bit of a counselor often between partners or between Yeah,
Lucas Underwood: for
Cecil Bullard: sure.
Cecil Bullard: My husbands and wives even who work in the business together and I have this situation, had this situation where the husband was almost abusive, verbally, at least to the wife in the shop. And then the wife would, they had this pattern that she would just, you know, start screaming and crying and blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, I talked to her and I said who can you control? What can you control? What you know? Yeah. And she said, well, only me, that's what it came to. And I said, okay. So if he was abusive to you or verbally abusive to you in the shop, in front of people, instead of screaming and crying, what behavior could you do that might change the situation?
Cecil Bullard: And so what we came to was that she should say, that's not appropriate. That's not what you should be doing. You shouldn't treat me this way in front of all these employees. And then I'm gonna go take a break and then you and I can talk about it later tonight, tomorrow, whatever. But no screaming and crying.
Cecil Bullard: And you know what happened? It shifted the whole tide. You cannot control other people. You can only control yourself. That's all there is.
Lucas Underwood: Yes. Absolutely. So, absolutely. And E plus R equals O. See, a lot of people live life and they say E equals O No, the event doesn't equal the outcome. Your reaction is what creates the outcome.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so if you can learn to slow down and think about it before you react, don't let the emotion drive you into a reaction. Focus on the event and say, what are my options? What is my solution? What could I do? How could I make this better? But make good decisions after the fact because you can't control what happened
Cecil Bullard: and also under
Lucas Underwood: respond to it.
Cecil Bullard: And also understand that not every choice will be a good choice, even though you make it right. Yeah. So it's not about whether or not I have some failures, of course, I'm gonna have some failures.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: It's about am I moving forward in a, intelligent, logical,
Lucas Underwood: yes.
Cecil Bullard: Way that's gonna improve my life and improve the lives of others around me, right?
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. So, hey, listen, we're gonna jump in. We're going to answer this for Gary, okay? Yes,
Cecil Bullard: sir.
Lucas Underwood: Because here's what's happening.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Live right this very minute. This car go, Gary, that he's asking about, just pulled back into the driveway.
Cecil Bullard: Let's
Lucas Underwood: do it. He says, client from a big project came and picked up, paid with a check, no issues with the previous check from this client and send a message saying they're stopping payment on the check due to mechanical issues with the vehicle.
Lucas Underwood: Unable to contact the client at this time to retrieve the vehicle for diagnosis on the issue. What's your opinion on best approach? Mind you, this is $9,000.
Cecil Bullard: I gotta get the car back in the shop somehow, because number one if they're saying that I have mechanical issues, then they can decline the check.
Cecil Bullard: That's I almost have no recourse. And if it's something I did. I have a warranty and so what I've done in the past is made sure I got in touch with a client and that might take more than just, oops, I sent them a text or I sent them an email. It might be multiple phone calls. It might be chasing 'em down where they work.
Cecil Bullard: Yes, where you can be in front of them and I've gotta get the car back in my shop. Number one,
Lucas Underwood: absolutely
Cecil Bullard: to verify that whether or not what I did was done correctly. That's the first thing I'm gonna do. Yeah. Whenever we worked on a car and things didn't go the way they were supposed to, the first thing we do is we check the work we did to make sure that the work we did was legitimate and then it was done well, and then it, this is not our instance.
Cecil Bullard: I document that very clearly and I don't release the car until they bring me cash. Cash this time. Yes.
Lucas Underwood: No, no credit card, no check,
Cecil Bullard: no checks, no nothing. Cash on the barrel head.
Lucas Underwood: I have a very similar process, step number one, right? Because you're right, they can stop payment on a check. It does not have to be legitimate for them to stop payment on check.
Lucas Underwood: They can do that if they want. Same with a chargeback that it doesn't have to be legitimate. Nope. Now, an amount that high. Because I have warranty terms and service and I tell people this all the time. Your warranty terms and service, dang well better be on your invoice. Yes. And they better have signed something.
Cecil Bullard: Yes. '
Lucas Underwood: cause it says what my warranty is. And
Cecil Bullard: by the way, it doesn't
Lucas Underwood: say
Cecil Bullard: if they don't sign, you don't have a contract, you have nowhere
Lucas Underwood: to go. Exactly. Absolutely. And so own that warranty terms of service. When they sign their invoice it, it literally says, we don't do refunds. There is no refund policy. We correct the problem if it's related to something that we did, and here's how you obtain that warranty.
Lucas Underwood: If that is not on there, you are up
Cecil Bullard: the
Lucas Underwood: creek in many cases.
Cecil Bullard: It's a vacation warranty. You have to bring it back to us. We have to have the car. It's not take it somewhere else and then send me a bill. It's not
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: We don't pay for hotels or travel rental
Lucas Underwood: cars or Now if you wanna do that.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah,
Lucas Underwood: if you wanna do that's on you.
Lucas Underwood: Right. You can do that after the fact, but it needs to be on paper that you don't do that.
Cecil Bullard: The whole back page of our work order
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: Was printed with our warranty policy stuff.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: I mean the whole page. And they had to make it
Lucas Underwood: small to fit it
Cecil Bullard: off 0.9 or 0.8 to get it there. Yeah. So. So, and it's like, you know, we did a transmission and we got a call from somebody and they were 500 miles away from the shop and the transmission's leaking and they're at a dealership.
Cecil Bullard: And the dealership's like, well, we have to put a new transmission 'cause these guys are idiots, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And we're gonna send you see, so we're just gonna send you the bill from the dealership. Oh no you're not. Right. Yep.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: You will take it to a shop of my choice.
Cecil Bullard: I found a shop nearby there.
Cecil Bullard: There was a seal leak it, I think it cost me like, I don't know, $24 to have it fixed.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: The shop was being nice to me, but they didn't need a whole new transmission. Absolutely. And that, that the only way that happened was based on the warranty policy and the signature
Lucas Underwood: Yes. Absolutely. And I'm gonna tell you something.
Lucas Underwood: Listen when I go into these instances, I get a telephone call, Hey, there's an issue with something you did. Hey, I'm unhappy with my experience. You know what I'm doing? I am attacking it like you would not believe. I'm on the telephone, I'm calling them, I'm texting 'em, Hey, I wanna make this right. I wanna take care of this.
Lucas Underwood: Tell me what's going on. How can I help? What do I need to do? And by the staff is by,
Cecil Bullard: I'm also documenting all of that because I may have to go to court. Yes. And if it's nine grand, I'm gonna go to court.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And I might even talk to the district attorney because that's a felony for them to mislead and steal nine grand from me.
Lucas Underwood: Well, in North Carolina, theft of services.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Right. In North Carolina it's theft of services. And that's why the terms of service is very important, right? Because I have to have a terms of service that says what?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But this also goes back to the conversation that you and I also had, and that is we have so many guys that are flying by the seat of their pants.
Cecil Bullard: And you, they don't even understand the liability they have. Forget about the $9,000 job that the check got bounced on. Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Think about somebody you doing work on somebody. They take their car outta your shop the next day they kill somebody.
Cecil Bullard: You know? And who do you think is gonna be named in the lawsuit?
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely
Cecil Bullard: right? Yeah. Absolutely. No matter what, even if it's not your fault, even if it's not even remotely your fault, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with you because you touched the car, you're going to be named in the lawsuit. Yeah. And if you cannot prove what you did, how you did it, and why you did it.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And you don't have signatures. You are screwed. And
Lucas Underwood: We have completion photos. Yeah, on our repair orders. And so the part was replaced. Here's a picture of the part. Oh, by the way, you see that red mark right there? That means that we torque the bolt, right? Yeah. That's torque mark.
Lucas Underwood: And so we know that never gets put on until we torque that bolt. And so you can see the repair that was done. You can see the completed completion, you can see the photos of the parts that were changed. All of that is documented and available for you, for your review at any point in time. And people say, Lucas, that repair order is like 25 pages long.
Lucas Underwood: And I'm like, right, because shop wear makes it super easy. It's not like it's a lot of work for us to do that. I don't care how long it is, as long as it's documented
Cecil Bullard: and you better raise your labor rate by 50 cents an hour or so So you can pay for the paper.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Right?
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. So it is what it is.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And we used to, like, we always had an after fix report.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: So if the car came in with this symptom. And this is what we diagnosed. This is why we decided to replace that component. We replaced that component. We retested the vehicle, we verified that component is working properly at this time and that, and so that's always documented.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: In whatever repair you're doing or whatever service you're doing that, that was done legitimately. Especially if you're torquing. I love the idea of, you know, here's a red dot on that bolt. It means it was torque. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. Yes sir.
Cecil Bullard: Imagine, you know, going to court and then you can stand in front of a judge or whatever and go.
Cecil Bullard: Here's our process, here's how it's done, here's how I know it was done properly. Yes. You know? And by the way, it's
Lucas Underwood: documented. It's on paper.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Here's how this works.
Cecil Bullard: And we do that how often? Every single time.
Lucas Underwood: Yep. About
Cecil Bullard: just the way we do business, right? Yep. And nobody gets the choice not to do it.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Lucas Underwood: Now look I'm going to, we're gonna step on the accelerator here. I got yelled at by somebody last time. They said go. You didn't answer my question.
Cecil Bullard: Go.
Lucas Underwood: And I said, well, Michael Smith's a talker, man. You can't let him just talk on and on. I mean, he's smart. Cecil
Cecil Bullard: two, you don't hear
Lucas Underwood: what he says.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Cecil two. So let's, this is, I don't know about the smart part, but the talking part, we definitely,
Lucas Underwood: I tell you that Michael Smith is a very smart man, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yes. He
Lucas Underwood: is. Like, he's pretty awe inspiring when you get to talking with Michael and the way he asks questions. That's how you know he is really smart, is because the way he asked the question, you're like, you're trying to get in my head, aren't you?
Lucas Underwood: All right, Matt McCann. Now, I love this question. He says, we have a solid team of technicians and front staff. Oh, they moved it over so I can see it over here. We have a front staff who work well together, but it often feels like most of them work for the company rather than with the company. I truly believe a great culture and buy-in leads to a positive outcome in production.
Lucas Underwood: What are some effective methods or approaches to help strengthen our shop's culture and shift that mindset toward a sense of shared ownership and teamwork? Now, I'm gonna tell you this, okay, Cecil, I've gotta jump in and answer this first because it's something that's near and dear to my heart.
Lucas Underwood: Okay?
Cecil Bullard: Go for it.
Lucas Underwood: The first thing is there's this great video and it's by a man named Tim Kite. It's on YouTube and it's about leadership. And if you go search this, it's got some like yellow and purple dots or something on the title screen. You'll see it. And it is one of the most beautiful speeches on culture I've ever heard.
Lucas Underwood: And he names a couple things. And one of the things that's always stood out to me is that you have to be going on a journey. You have to be going somewhere, right? Because people today want to be on a journey. They want to be accomplishing something. It's bigger than just showing up and getting a paycheck for them.
Lucas Underwood: And so we have to show them what that journey is and why it should matter to them and why it matters to us. And you know, the other thing he talks about, you have to do it for the right reasons. It can't be a personal agenda. It can't just be about me getting a paycheck. It has to be about this business serves you too, right?
Cecil Bullard: You have to, you also have to talk about it. You have to document it, and you have to live it. So, you know, when we start talking about your mission statement, your vision statement, and your core principles, you need those documented. And I always tell people, look, if you're gonna write a mission statement, put it on the wall and then not live it, don't write it.
Cecil Bullard: But that, that in, in the, at the institute we worked together. Now I had a meeting the other night with a few of the top people here, and I was like, I need everyone to understand it's not a democracy. Right? Yeah. It is not everybody's not you're not gonna get what you want because there's three of you that want x.
Cecil Bullard: It's what does Dutch
Lucas Underwood: say as a benevolent dictatorship?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. It's, it is, it's a benevolent dictatorship. It, it is. Right. But, so there's that. On the other hand, people need to feel like their voice matters, right? Yeah. And that their
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And that their vision or their their, what they want lines up with what the company wants.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: So why do we have a mission statement? Well, 'cause Cecil's nuts and Cecil feels very passionate about what we need to do, but it's not Cecil's mission statement. It's a mission statement that was brought by all of the employees of the institute at a point in time. And it's been, it really hasn't been modified 'cause it's very simple.
Cecil Bullard: Better business, better life, better industry. But we, when we advertise for people, when we say, Hey, I want a new employee, it's there when you interview, it's there. When you have meetings with your people, it's there. It's constantly there. It's not just on the wall, but we also discuss it. We talk about it, we talk about how it applies when we have decisions to make at the institute that are tough.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Decisions. We say, how does that fall in line with our core values? Yes. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: We had one of those last week.
Cecil Bullard: And we decided that the decision that we were making didn't fall in line with our core values, so we were going to make another decision. A different decision. Right. Yeah. And I think that other piece that you and I talked about, when the owner or the manager doesn't follow the process or doesn't, then it's all out the window.
Lucas Underwood: You're taken outta that trust account,
Cecil Bullard: right. You're
Lucas Underwood: taken outta the trust account, you know,
Cecil Bullard: and now you. Go ahead.
Lucas Underwood: You go ahead.
Cecil Bullard: No you go ahead.
Lucas Underwood: You'd already forgot what you were gonna say.
Cecil Bullard: Go ahead. No, I haven't. I'm good.
Lucas Underwood: So, Tim Kit said the real challenge of like, because core values the way that we see it, right?
Lucas Underwood: Because core actually is a Latin word for heart. Yeah. And he talked about the fact that, you know, because you go to the coronary department of the hospital and he said the challenge is getting it off of the wall because those are poster values into the heart of your people. And so it means that we have to hire people who believe what we believe.
Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Now, I'm gonna tell you something. One of the, one of the coolest practices or I don't know what you'd call it that we've done in our shop, Jeremy Hoem is the business coach for the family business up the street, right? And he suggested something and I found it brilliant. He said, I want you guys to sit down and I want you to name three people.
Lucas Underwood: Each person in the room named three people that made a big impact in your life. Named.
Cecil Bullard: That's, you guys do that on the podcast?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. We name all those three people. And then he says, okay, now what I want you to do is I want you to name three things about those three people that was impactful for you. The reason that stuck with you and why you, why it emulate matter.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so we go down and we make this list. And you know, when we got done, we found out that the things that mattered to every single person in the room mattered consistently across the board. Honesty, integrity, doing what's right, regardless of who's looking right. It wasn't about money.
Cecil Bullard: We can't, yeah, you can't run a business and make.
Cecil Bullard: You know, poor decisions because that's gonna put more money in your company. Now again, you and I have conversations all the time and 'cause I love talking to you, and I don't know if you care about, I don't know if you love talking to me or not, but I do. I do, of
Lucas Underwood: course.
Cecil Bullard: So of course. So, you know, we have the shop owner who's not making a living who feels bad if they make a profit, et cetera, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: That's not what I'm talking about. I'm not saying that, you know, the business has to be profitable and it has to be profitable to a certain extent because that then allows me to take care of my employees and their families and my customers and my community and all the other things. But when you have a financial decision to make and you decide to go against your core values because it's a financial decision, 'cause it's gonna impact you, right?
Cecil Bullard: You are making a mistake. Okay. You need to build that bank account that allows you to make the right choice even when it hurts, right? Yes. And in order to do that, you have to charge properly on the front and be profitable on the front so that you have that opportunity. I would tell you, you know, that there was that post about, there's these dishonest guys and there's always dishonest people.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. No matter what industry you're in, right? Yeah. There's gonna be a certain percentage of those no matter what you do. But I think that most of the stuff that looks dishonest, it might actually be dishonest in our industry, but it's really because I put myself in a position where I could not make the right decision because I didn't have the money or the finances to make the right decision.
Cecil Bullard: So instead of, you know, pulling that motor out and putting a new motor in at my cost because we screwed it up, I'm gonna put it. Cheap patch on this thing and hope it gets past the warranty period. Right,
Lucas Underwood: right.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. 'cause I don't have the money to do anything else, and it's not the decision that I really, if it was my car, it's not the decision I would make.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And so I always look at it like that. I'm gonna be the one driving that vehicle. Yeah. And so if I'm gonna be the one driving that vehicle, how am I gonna fix that thing? Yeah. And if you charge enough, and I can't say that we always do either. You know, there's sometimes you come up against a financial decision and maybe there isn't all that money sitting in the bank, but if you make the wrong choice and you've got the writing on the wall and the mission statement and the vision and the values, and you
Lucas Underwood: value against that, but
Cecil Bullard: yeah.
Cecil Bullard: What message? You just wiped it all
Lucas Underwood: out.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And I think as business owners, as people who want to be leaders, who try to be leaders, that we need to be very conscious in the decisions we're making. We need to be very solid in the in, in our core values so that we keep making the right decisions. 'cause when we make the wrong ones, we can get a little grace from our people.
Cecil Bullard: But if that becomes a pattern
Lucas Underwood: yeah,
Cecil Bullard: Then there's no grace.
Lucas Underwood: They will not trust. Do you know how many technicians I talk to, how many service advisors I talk to and they say I don't trust them. I've seen what do to other people. I'm not gonna.
Cecil Bullard: But I, and I also think that we're not building the emotional bond with our employees that we need to build.
Cecil Bullard: And the emotional bond is not, you can walk on me and you can do whatever the hell you want. I'm gonna pay you whatever you want and all that. There, there are rules and B, my can't boundaries. Yeah. You gotta have boundaries. Boundaries. Okay. There, there are rules and boundaries but we need to have an emotional connection with our people.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: A around the core values of the business and that journey that you're talking about. You know, what's the journey that we're on together so that when we fumble, right, when we fall down, we have a lot of people there to pick us up and help us move forward.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And not point fingers and laugh at us while we're on the ground.
Cecil Bullard: Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And if we don't build that core, if we don't build that emotional bond. Yeah. Then we don't get Absolutely. We don't get what we need. Absolutely. What we should have.
Lucas Underwood: And you know, one of the things I'll say about this to Matt is that, that, for one, you need to be really careful here because usually if the culture, right, like, so I have a big personality and the people in the shop know my heart.
Lucas Underwood: They know what I believe, and I try my very best to live that. There's days that I don't hit that mark. Yeah. And they pick me up and they get me there and there's days that they don't hit the mark and I pick them up and get them there. There's days I don't feel like it, and they're like, Hey dude, it's okay, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like, we got this, we're fine. We're gonna get through this. Right.
Cecil Bullard: I,
Lucas Underwood: well, so here's the thing. It's like you need to be careful because if you don't have a culture that's developing underneath you, there might be a seed somewhere in that culture that something's wrong. There might be someone in the culture Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Who is trying to distract and pull back from it. Now, you said something about boundaries. I wanna just tell you how smart my wife is. Okay. The other day she can't be
Cecil Bullard: very smart. She's still hanging out
Lucas Underwood: with you. So,
Cecil Bullard: I don't know, brother. Go ahead. Sorry.
Lucas Underwood: She tolerates. Okay.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. There we go.
Lucas Underwood: I'm always gone.
Lucas Underwood: You notice that like, yeah. I'm always on the road. That's how she tolerates me.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: She said, listen, I'm gonna tell you something about yourself that may not feel very nice. She said, you're a giver. And I said, okay. She said, givers have to set boundaries because takers never will. And I thought, oh.
Lucas Underwood: Huh. Right. Because I'm bad. You've seen me do that. Yeah. You've yelled at me for doing that.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: And it's like, listen you have to set boundaries with these people. And one of the things I see shop owners doing, I just had a conversation with that guy who's having all these issues with this tech in the shop, only been there for a short period of time, super toxic killing the organization.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. If you don't set a boundary that says you will not behave this way, we do not tolerate this here. Right. Because see what I've learned, Cecil, is that I have to have a line. And that line is once you cross that, no, I no more Mr. Nice Lucas. Okay. I have a job to do. I'm not letting you damage the rest of the team.
Lucas Underwood: It's not that I don't care about you, it's not that I wanna harm you. It's that you're going to cause harm to the people that I care about.
Cecil Bullard: And that's the kind of the point I kind of wanted to make is that while I'm trying to be the nice guy, and I'm trying to be a giver and I'm trying to make sure everybody's taken care of.
Cecil Bullard: I can't have someone that, that routinely is not part of the team, is not part of the mission. It's not part of the vision. I can't do it. Exactly. You know, I was, I thinking, you know. What's your favorite whiskey or bourbon?
Lucas Underwood: What
Cecil Bullard: do you like best?
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna say horse soldiers probably my favorite right now.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. So I've got a really nice young, maybe I've got a really nice glass bottle. I'm gonna pour you you know, two fingers of horse s soldiers and but I'm only gonna put a little poison in it.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, just a little.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. I'm just gonna put a little poison. Probably won't kill you.
Cecil Bullard: Might make you sick a little bit, but it probably won't kill you. Are you gonna drink that or not?
Lucas Underwood: No.
Cecil Bullard: No.
Lucas Underwood: Even a little bit.
Cecil Bullard: No, I thank
Lucas Underwood: you. I like David. I'm not trying to have the stomach plug in the middle of a podcast,
Cecil Bullard: but kind of how do we do that in our lives? We keep poisonous people around, we keep poisonous ideas, we keep poisonous behaviors around us.
Cecil Bullard: But I'm
Lucas Underwood: gonna fix on Cecil.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Win because you know, I was invincible until I was, I dunno, 57.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, prior to 50, about 57, sometime in my 57th year, I looked out there and I thought, oh my God, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. I mean, there's a, there's an end to this life, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And it's closer now. Than it was, you know, now I can see that I got 25, 30 years left maybe. Right? Maybe. Right. And then quality of life and all of that. And when you're invisible, it's like, okay, so I'll drink that. It's got some poison in it, so what? Right. You know? Yeah. I'll take care of that tomorrow.
Cecil Bullard: I'll i'll do that next week. I'll, oh, you know, having to deal with that guy, you know, and then it's gonna be tough on the business because now I don't have that guy. Yeah. Well, I got news for you. Running shops and running, you know, the institute, when you get rid of toxic people, it's amazing how much the other people step up.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly.
Cecil Bullard: EE. Every single time I've gotten rid of someone toxic, the company has made leaps and bounds move moving forward. Percent. Right?
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. And look, here's the thing is there's a video of Jordan Peterson. It's actually the video that got him canceled. And you'd watch it and you'd say, how in the world did that, did they cancel
Cecil Bullard: him?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Right over this, right? It's in, it's insane. But he talks about fixing things and he said we teach all these kids in school that they're gonna be able to go out and do something. 'cause he taught psychologists, right? Yeah. He's like, you know, we teach 'em, they're gonna be able to fix something.
Lucas Underwood: And he said, no, the world's a really complex place and it's really hard to fix things. And you're the equivalent of a chimp with a wrench, right? Yeah. You're whack. Did it make it better? No. You, to fix a human being is a lot of work. And it takes years. And it's not something that as a business owner, you're really supposed to be doing in the first place.
Lucas Underwood: You're getting off into some gray area here. And so we have a toxic person in the shop because what, what happens? How many season, how many times have you seen it? They've got this toxic person in the shop. Yeah, but he's banging out hours. The minute he's gone, you're gonna find out that he was covering up all of his mistakes.
Lucas Underwood: And when that car came back the next time with loose bolts, he tightened them up and said, what do you think to do?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I didn't, it wasn't my fault. I didn't do that
Lucas Underwood: exactly.
Cecil Bullard: I'd rather have the guy go, oops, I made it. Yeah, I did it. Right. You know,
Lucas Underwood: a hundred
Cecil Bullard: percent. When I'm interviewing potential people, I'm asking open-ended questions that will direct me to whether or not they will take accountability or not.
Cecil Bullard: Take accountability for sure. One of the questions I might ask someone is, tell me about the worst mistake that happened. We all have a, like if I said that, I know you have a picture, you'd go, oh man, we did this. Blah, blah. And tell me what it was about and tell me what we did to take care of that.
Cecil Bullard: You know? Yeah. And a lot of people will instantly go, well, so and so did this, and so, and it was, it's never them. They never have a part of it.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: Another piece of that is we're all broken, right? We're not, none of us are perfect human beings. We don't, I mean, we're, I guess we're perfect human beings.
Cecil Bullard: We're just not perfect. Right? Yeah. Human beings are flawed. Yes. And it's not my job to fix you. It's my job to set goals, set boundaries. To run my business the way that I need my business to run so that my clients can be taken care of and my employees can be taken care of. 'cause you know, that's my
Lucas Underwood: job.
Cecil Bullard: That's my job,
Lucas Underwood: what I do, right?
Cecil Bullard: That's what I
Lucas Underwood: do.
Cecil Bullard: And when somebody comes in that's going to interrupt that or make that, you know, more difficult, the more I tolerate that, the harder it becomes because other people are also paying attention, watching, et cetera.
Lucas Underwood: And I'm hurting other people, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like, that's the thing we don't really want to talk about. I'm actually hurting other people. I'm impacting the lives of other people. I'm help I, we talk about negative attitude, right? And I tell people all the time, like, I wanna be careful about who my kids hang out with.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah,
Lucas Underwood: absolutely. 'cause the negative attitude is contagious.
Lucas Underwood: Don't
Cecil Bullard: one.
Lucas Underwood: You know,
Cecil Bullard: if I had only one thing I could do for my children when they were growing up Yeah. My grandkids now, it would be choose their friends.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Absolutely. Who they hung out with. Absolutely. Because you become like the people around you.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, when they talk about, you know, you don't wanna be the smartest guy in the room, you wanna be in a room where there's a lot more smarter people than you.
Cecil Bullard: That, that is kind of the example of, if I'm in a room with a lot of smart people, I might not be really smart, but I'm gonna get smarter. Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: If I'm in a room with a lot of yahoos and idiots, guess what? I'm gonna be a Yahoo and an idiot. It's inevitable. Yeah, so I, one more thing about the culture piece.
Cecil Bullard: Not only do you need to communicate routinely, but some of the things that are important to them when they fall in line with what's important to the company, you need to make a part of what your company is about in doing, and you need to make a big deal about that. So it's not just, well, the company's here to make 20% and take and have a great reputation, blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: It's also like, what do you want and how does that fit into that company goal and values?
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: And how can we help you achieve that
Lucas Underwood: a hundred
Cecil Bullard: percent by working here and doing your job here. Right?
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent.
Cecil Bullard: And if you're not having routine communication, and that's not, it is like, okay, I'm outta your toolbox, you know?
Cecil Bullard: Good morning, how's your family doing? How's your son, Bob? I know you had some problems with him. Is that okay? What can I do? You also have to be talking to the employee on a, this is your job. These are the boundaries. These are the things that you're doing fantastically. These are the things that we need you to improve.
Cecil Bullard: Here's how, if you need help, here's how I'm gonna help you as leaders in our companies. We should constantly be helping others in our companies become better and better. And we do that and they see us as that. They don't see the company as outside of themselves a different goal, different direction.
Cecil Bullard: Then I have people that work. With the company. Become a part of the company. Yeah. As opposed to, oh, I'm just here for a paycheck. I don't want people that are just here for a paycheck.
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent. I, one of the, one of my very close friends worked for a big national organization and he was so depressed and just really upset about the position.
Lucas Underwood: I'm like, dude, you're like their top sales person and all this crazy stuff's happening and you're doing all these amazing things and look at all the progress you've made. He's like, something just doesn't feel right. And he switched positions and he said, I figured it out. It was feedback. It wasn't good or bad feedback, it was just feedback.
Lucas Underwood: No feedback.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. '
Lucas Underwood: cause I was getting nothing.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: Right. And so if we're not talking to our people and they don't know the content of our heart, but
Cecil Bullard: so
Lucas Underwood: missing an opportunity. So
Cecil Bullard: how many small businesses shop owners have a goal for the company that they know that everyone knows what that goal is? A sales goal.
Cecil Bullard: A customer satisfaction goal, a comeback goal, you know, et cetera, et cetera, that everybody knows and understands that you're routinely talking about. How many of those shop owners now have a position that's well-defined? Here's what you're responsible for. Here's who you answer to. Here's who answers to you.
Cecil Bullard: Here's how we have our decision making paradigm. You know, it's how we make decisions in this company. And how many of those owners now have goals with the position and good position. Yeah. You know, agreement, contract description, whatever. And then how many of those people are having routine interviews?
Cecil Bullard: I mean, like, at least twice a year. On your position and on your personal checks, personal goals, et cetera. And I mean, I see employees. I've been working in this company for seven years. I've never once had a Here's how you're doing an interview.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: I mean, I've had the owner come out, yell at me because I, I did something that they didn't like, but I never had a sit down and say, this is my job and I'm doing a great job here, but I need improvement here.
Lucas Underwood: Well, I'm gonna get us through these last two questions. Go for it. I think you're absolutely right. And I'm just a little disappointed. Nobody's asked why you're in a 1970s bathtub for this recording. I don't even
color
Lucas Underwood: in the background.
Cecil Bullard: Don't even, I don't know why the green is there. I don't know what happened.
Cecil Bullard: So we're gonna,
Lucas Underwood: we'll,
Cecil Bullard: Michael,
Lucas Underwood: later we're
Cecil Bullard: gonna get some other acc later.
Lucas Underwood: There you go. Right. Go
Cecil Bullard: something.
Lucas Underwood: Okay, so, so one I'm gonna answer really quick. I'm just gonna go through, I think we're fairly close on this. Kyle says, Hey this is a weak point for me. Should we be telling the tech and advisors actual revenue numbers and goals?
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you
Cecil Bullard: something. Yes. Yes.
Lucas Underwood: I share every single dime of numbers. Yes. The only thing I don't do is share like individual payroll data. No, we don't do that. I share everything. I share the payroll.
Cecil Bullard: I'm not telling you what everybody else gets paid, by the way. Probably everybody knows anyway 'cause the employees are gonna talk et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: But why do I share the numbers? Because we have a goal and we have a target and we're not hitting that. I want you aware of that.
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: If we are hitting that, I want you aware of that. And if you don't think I'm here to, you know, make a profit and drive a nice truck, then we didn't interview you properly.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Here's the thing
Lucas Underwood: I'm training my staff every single day about how to look at those numbers. What those numbers mean. Yes. What number affects what, how it changes things, how it affects the bottom line. Because you know something, one day I won't be here anymore and if I can raise them up because what do we have happening?
Lucas Underwood: I told you this in the meeting we had a while back, we see all these people that are leaving shops and starting their own and nobody's ever taught 'em how to run a business. And so if we can advise them, if we can educate them and people say, well, what if they go start their own thing? So what? Yay. At least your competition knows what they're doing.
Cecil Bullard: At least they're charging a reasonable rate instead of 75 bucks an hour because they think I can be cheaper and blah blah, blah. The other thing, if you're not telling them what's happening, they are guessing what's happening. Exactly. And you don't want 'em guessing. You made a
Lucas Underwood: lot of money
Cecil Bullard: And when you come in, when you hang on, 'cause you gotta cover this.
Cecil Bullard: When you come into a shop and you have like the technicians going, well, the reason we're not busy is 'cause we're too pricey. You're not having the right conversations with those people. They don't understand why we have to be $156 an hour, a hundred, $200 an hour. And all of your employees need to know what your rate should be and why you need to hold that rate.
Cecil Bullard: Steady because if you don't, then you make 3% and you have a business that's unsafe and you can't make good decisions financially for sure. And so I'm the guy that says, you need to know where we're at. You need to know what the profits are, and you need to understand that the company is set up to make 20% net profit because I don't get to keep it all.
Cecil Bullard: If I'm lucky, I might end up with seven or 8%.
Lucas Underwood: Amen. I've got one question we're gonna answer. There's actually another one in there that I think's important. One is how to know when to hire a coach. And I'm just gonna say, like, for me it was very simply that I knew that my knowledge had gotten me as far as it was gonna get me.
Lucas Underwood: I was up against the wall. Every time I turned around, I was dealing with another problem I didn't know the answer to, and I felt super stressed out. I felt like no matter what, I just could not make progress. And that's when it's time to get that outside perspective. I'm gonna tell you that I think if you're starting a business, you should hire a coach when you start the business.
Lucas Underwood: And I understand the revenue concerns with that, Cecil, but I think having somebody help you set the business up properly, ensure success down the road. If nothing else, just somebody to help you set up a proper chart of accounts. Oh my God, I hate to even bring that up.
Cecil Bullard: So I'm a coach and yeah, and I've been a coach. You're retired. Let me, no, I'm not. No, I'm not brother. I'm not. I will kick you in the head next time I see you. And you don't want that. 'cause I have this giant boot on my foot right now.
Lucas Underwood: That
Cecil Bullard: we have clients that, that. Come to us and say, I'm buying a business.
Cecil Bullard: And we usually save them a hundred, $150,000 on the purchase price because they don't really understand the numbers and blah, blah, blah. We help 'em negotiate, we help 'em set up the systems and process. We help 'em get the goals in place. We help them understand the business as a financial machine, a model, you know, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And so our average client I think last month we were over 19% net for our average client. And that includes brand new people who are only at three or 4%. So our clients have been with us for a while, are making really good money, and they're not working 60 hours a week or 80 hours a week. These are guys that are now working 20 hours a week, 25 hours a week in their automotive shop, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And
Lucas Underwood: absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: And so, you know, it. Can I do it by myself? Yeah, probably. It might take me 20 years to figure it all out, or I may never figure it all out.
Team
Lucas Underwood: trying to get
Cecil Bullard: it here. And so guys like yourself, you know, if I asked you, I said, Lucas, you know, when did you first hire a coach?
Cecil Bullard: And you say, okay, I did it when, I don't know, I was in business 12 years, right? And
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: I finally thought, okay, I'm in trouble enough that I better hire somebody otherwise I'm not gonna be here. Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And that's a huge portion of guys that hire coaching. I've got to a point where I'm almost desperate.
Cecil Bullard: And my coach, the coach is the last straw. I gotta either, you know, I'm gonna go broke or I'm, they're gonna help me, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: But I will ask you, so I don't know if it was 12 years, 15 years, seven years when you got the coach and you started, you know, helping yourself and you don't run a perfect business.
Cecil Bullard: Neither do any of my clients. Okay?
Lucas Underwood: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: Sure. But do you say to yourself, man, I wish I'd had done this. Sooner.
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Cecil Bullard: Okay.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: So I have people,
Lucas Underwood: Do you know I, I mean like I know where, do
Cecil Bullard: you know how much farther along I would be if I had hired
Lucas Underwood: a coach myself? I would've money, I would have like college accounts for my kids and I would have a HSA and I'd have a lot of money put back in it.
Lucas Underwood: I'd be 10 years ahead towards retirement right now.
Cecil Bullard: My business instead I'm playing would be worth, my business would be worth twice what it's worth or three times what it's worth right now. Even though I did hire a coach and I'm working towards all those things, I could have done it better sooner, faster.
Cecil Bullard: It's
Lucas Underwood: kinda like compounding. The earlier you get in and get it started, the easier it is to get there.
Cecil Bullard: And so I get into a lot of meetings. In fact, I have one with a potential new client today. I'm, when we have someone who's kind of outside of what the institute normally does, like they don't just have a normal, like I work on Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Repair shops or whatever. I get involved and I have these conversations and what I really detest is this you go through and you say, okay, we do this for you. And they believe it. They see it. They go, okay, and you talk about, you know, your parts margin is off by 18 points and that's costing you $70,000 a year and you know, we may not get the 18 points, but we'll probably get at least 12 and that will certainly pay for us and put more money in your pocket, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And. And then you get done and you're like, okay. And they're like, oh yeah I really, I think this would be great. And you say, okay, sign on the bottom line.
Cecil Bullard: And we don't have long-term contracts. We're not even, we're not like signing for a $60,000 contract. We're just saying, yeah, you're gonna pay us month to month, and if you don't like what we do, bye-bye. You know? And if you do like what we do, you're gonna keep paying us. And our clients keep paying us because they like what we do.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But then they go, well, you know, I'm I'm gonna hire a service advisor. So once I do that, I'll then I'll come back. There's always a reason. Do coaching or I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, yeah. And you know what I tell 'em, I said, no, you're not. You will never come back. And I'm sorry, but if you think you can do this on your own, can you Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And you know what? You'll probably make half or less of what you should earn. Yeah. And your life will be, but the cost of doing it
Lucas Underwood: that way, do
Cecil Bullard: you know how much it's pain that
Lucas Underwood: causes, do you know what it
Cecil Bullard: does? It's painful not to for you, your family. Yeah. You know, and that's what they don't Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: That's what they don't understand. Right. It's like, you know, my, my dad all he worried about was the clients and he did care about his kids. Don't get me wrong. He loved us and he provided food and all that kinda stuff, but when it came decisions about where he spent his time and all of that, it was always with the business.
Cecil Bullard: It was never with the family and on, there was always
Lucas Underwood: another fire to put out
Cecil Bullard: on his death bed. After two months in, in the hospital on a breathing tube, knowing he was gonna die, all he could say to me was, I'm sorry.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. And it wasn't, I'm sorry that I, you know, didn't leave you $10 million or, you know, any of that.
Cecil Bullard: It was, I'm sorry that I didn't give you the time. That you should, that we should have. I'm sorry that we didn't have the relationship we should have. So they don't understand that. And if you talk to, I don't know, I could give you a hundred clients to talk to, and they would say, oh my God, my life is so completely different.
Cecil Bullard: I, I now have time for my family. I have a life outside of my business. I have money in the bank. I'm not concerned about, I, I can do investing in other areas. You know, Michael, Mr. Smith you know, brainchild there you know, he talks about like having that extra bid and peace.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Well, Maslow basically says if you're worried about money and whether or not you can pay payroll next week, you can't think about family. God you know, life.
Lucas Underwood: You can't have a good life. You can't enjoy life. And you know, here's on the other side of that, right? There's a lot of shops out here who are listening and they're saying, but man, you know, I've got things pretty good right now.
Lucas Underwood: I've got things pretty dialed in. I've got things lined up. And you know, the reason that I coach with the institute is this, because when I sat down and started talking with Michael Smith and because I'm not gonna lie to you, Michael and I butted heads when we first met. And I went to Michael and I said, I really like Cecil.
Lucas Underwood: I feel like he's a close friend of mine, and I'm worried that what you're doing with the institute and your engagement could be bad for them. And he said, why do you say that? And I said, because you're trying to tell all these people to go sell their shops. And he said, whoa, stop down.
Cecil Bullard: That's not what we're doing.
Lucas Underwood: That's not what that's
Cecil Bullard: about.
Lucas Underwood: Down we, we were at a conference and he pulled out a chair and he said, I want you to sit down and you need to listen to me. And I said,
Cecil Bullard: It's about creating a legacy and having the legacy and controlling some of that.
Lucas Underwood: Go ahead. But beyond that,
Cecil Bullard: yeah,
Lucas Underwood: but beyond that, what he did is he put his hands up on my shoulder and he said, I need you to listen to me because I have seen all of these businesses and other verticals go through what's getting ready to happen to you.
Lucas Underwood: He said, if you don't believe me when I say this, go look at the collision space and see what's happened to them. Because you work in the collision space too. I said, what are you talking about? He said, I'm talking about consolidation,
Cecil Bullard: mom and pop hardware stores, mom and pops, pharmacies, et cetera.
Lucas Underwood: Funeral homes, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. He said, what I'm trying to tell you is that the environment of which you operate now is not gonna be the environment of which you operate 10 years from now. And if you wanna sell your shop, great. If you wanna build a bunch of shops and sell them as a package and take the money and run, great. But what I'm trying to tell you is that you're not gonna survive and thrive in this market, in this environment unless you change what you're doing, because you're gonna be in a different market 10 years from now.
Lucas Underwood: You have to Yeah. The
industry
Lucas Underwood: prepare for it now.
Cecil Bullard: So I don't know you're not a young guy. You're young compared to me but you've been in here for, I don't know, 20 years, right? Yep. In the industry. And you've seen the changes that we have, not just technologically, but even Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Kind of business. And we have fought that tooth and nail, like Yeah. Raising our labor rates and, you know, charging what we're really worth and actually even paying technicians and creating a path. And we fought a lot of this stuff. Right. If they're good, they'll figure it out. Right? Okay. Yeah. That's what we should do is roll the dice and hope that we have good people.
Cecil Bullard: Why not help them become the best that they can be?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And. The changes we had in the last 20 years will pair pale in comparison Yes. To the changes we will have in the next 10.
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent.
Cecil Bullard: Okay.
Lucas Underwood: A hundred percent.
Cecil Bullard: I mean, we've got AI to think about how is that going to influence what, who is that gonna replace?
Cecil Bullard: How is that gonna be used in our business or buy the do it yourselfer out there. Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And by the dealerships and the manufacturers and, you know, there's so much going on here and what I hate we probably have, I don't know, at any given time we have I dunno, 50% of our clients are probably.
Cecil Bullard: 50 or older. And we have a good percentage of guys that are 70 and still working in their shops because they need to, because they have to, because they don't know how to do anything else. And they have no life outside of that. And they've come to the point where they're physically or mentally not capable of moving forward and they have no path.
Cecil Bullard: They haven't spent the last five years with one of their key employees helping their key employee understand the business so that key employee can pay them and get them out. Or they're you know, they go to sell their business and they need, I don't know, 800,000, but it's only worth two.
Cecil Bullard: And they don't even understand. I, we have an employee, a, an older gentleman, fantastic guy. He's been with us for a very long time and he's gonna sell this business for like, I dunno, 500,000. And we look at the business with him, we go, this business worth a 900, $950,000. And he cried. I mean, he cried because at 500,000, it wasn't quite gonna be enough to make him feel secure.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But at 950,000, it's enough to make him feel secure.
Lucas Underwood: He's gonna make it through it. Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And it's it breaks my heart
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: To see these guys at the end of their career. With no plan, no move forward plan for themselves. And I don't know how many shops closed this year. I can tell you we're not 240,000 shops anymore.
Cecil Bullard: And the only reason that we're maintaining numbers is 'cause you have all these technicians, all of a sudden we think, oh, I'm just gonna go do it. And now they're working out of their garage and they're calling themselves a shop and charging, you know, $75 an hour not marking parts up and letting their customer bring their own parts in.
Cecil Bullard: And we're gonna see that disappear. Yeah. We're gonna see it disappear because of regulations, because of technology. It's gonna be less and less
Lucas Underwood: different world. Yep.
Cecil Bullard: A hundred percent.
Lucas Underwood: And
Cecil Bullard: I'm telling you, in the next 10 years, there are gonna be so many guys that are going to have to be out of the industry.
Cecil Bullard: And it's a shame because they could control their destiny. So when do you hire a coach? I don't know if you're looking at going, yeah, why not? Right. Yeah. What's the first thing I'm gonna do? You're gonna hire me and the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna look at your parts margin. I'm gonna look at your labor rate.
Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna say you're, we're costing you x. You have to make that from your customer.
Lucas Underwood: I'm
Cecil Bullard: your new
Lucas Underwood: accountability
Cecil Bullard: partner. 10 bucks an hour, right? I'm your new And I have a big foot. That's but, and by the way, if it doesn't fit, don't stick. Yeah. Don't sign long-term contracts. Yeah. Percent. If it doesn't fit, don't stick.
Cecil Bullard: And if it doesn't fit, like we, we have, I don't how many coaches we have now. Nine or I don't 11 or whatever it is. Yeah. And I'm also the guy that gets the call, Hey, I'm working with this client, I'm kind of struggling. Not, and it doesn't it's not working well. So ciso, will you get involved? Yeah, absolutely.
Cecil Bullard: I'll meet with a client and I've taken on some of those clients, or I've moved them to other coaches where it fit better. Right? Sure. Where it felt better, where it worked better for them. So. You also want to probably hire a coach that, or a coaching company that has the philosophy that you fit with if you
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Are the discount, the
Lucas Underwood: belief and moral, ethical guidelines.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If you're the discount, get 'em in, get 'em out. Get as much as you can, and that's what you wanna be. It isn't gonna fit here at the institute. We're not, you will not be happy with us and we will not be happy with you.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: If you want great relationships in a shop that runs really well and people to build a great team with really good culture.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: That's what we do here
Lucas Underwood: to make the world a better place, baby.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. That's what we do here.
Lucas Underwood: Well, hey listen, I just got a text message from the producer. He says he too late, calls us too late, double overtime for every minute, past an hour. So I, we
Cecil Bullard: better go,
Lucas Underwood: right? You're gonna be yelling at me for my p and l here in a few hours.
Lucas Underwood: There we go.
Cecil Bullard: No worries, baby.
Lucas Underwood: It's a big bill, man. It's a big bill. So,
Cecil Bullard: and we can do this again. So
Lucas Underwood: that's it. No worries. That's it. Cecil, thank you so much. I think this was an awesome conversation. I appreciate all the wisdom and knowledge you shared and I can't wait to do you
Cecil Bullard: too, brother.
Lucas Underwood: See you buddy.
Cecil Bullard: You too brother. Bye-bye.

168 - Pay Plans, Profits, and People: Inside Lake Sumter Auto Repair with Bobby Lambert

168 - Pay Plans, Profits, and People: Inside Lake Sumter Auto Repair with Bobby Lambert
November 11, 2025 - 00:25:28
 
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea sits down with Florida shop owner Bobby Lambert of Lake Sumter Transmissions and Auto Repair to trace his journey from VO-tech student turning wrenches to successful multi-shop owner. Bobby shares how a high school instructor opened the door to transmission work, a move to Florida “chasing a girl” led to a lifelong career, and decades in one shop eventually turned into an ownership opportunity. After buying the business in 2018, he quickly realized how much he did not know about the numbers and credits coaching and 20 groups with reshaping his skills as an owner. Bobby explains how adding general auto repair around the 2008 downturn set the stage for growth and later expansion to a second location with a rough reputation that he is steadily turning around. He breaks down his approach to pay plans for techs and advisors, why flexibility attracts top talent, and how he consistently hits 20 percent plus net profit by controlling expenses instead of chasing every dollar of revenue. The conversation closes with his succession and retirement plans, traveling the country in a motorhome, and his belief that neighboring shops should lock arms instead of competing out of fear.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Bobby Lambert, Owner of Lake Sumter Transmissions & Auto Repair
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:46] - Bobby shares how a high school VO-tech program and his teacher’s transmission shop launched his career in the aftermarket.
[00:02:58] - Moving to Florida “chasing a girl” leads Bobby to Lake Sumter Transmissions in 1982, where he works nearly every role in the business.
[00:07:57] - Bobby buys the shop in January 2018 and quickly realizes ownership requires a totally different skillset than managing daily operations.
[00:09:47] - After hearing Dan speak at a NAPA conference, Bobby signs up for coaching and classes that reshape how he thinks about his numbers and his market.
[00:11:59] - Inspired by multi-shop owners in his Gear Performance Group, Bobby takes a chance on a second, struggling shop and installs a coachable manager.
[00:15:02] - With retirement three to five years away, Bobby outlines a plan for each manager to buy their location, supported by succession guidance from Michael Smith.
[00:17:47] - Bobby explains how disciplined expense control helps him consistently achieve 20 percent or better net profit at his shops.
[00:20:52] - He breaks down flexible pay plans for technicians, using hourly, guarantees, and flat rate to match each tech’s stage and strengths.
[00:26:47] - Service advisors earn salary plus bonuses tied to shop and individual gross profit, encouraging true teamwork at the counter.
[00:37:13] - Bobby urges owners to get coaching early and see neighboring shops as partners to lock arms with, not competitors to fear.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friend. Good to be with you again, this bright and beautiful sunshiny day. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is the one, the only, Bobby Lambert. Bobby, how the heck are you, brother?
Bobby Lambert: Doing great. It's a little chilly down here in Florida this morning, but it's a beautiful day. Like you said, it's sun shining. Birds are chirping. I guess I'm,
Jimmy Lea: It's not often that Florida is colder than Utah, but today it's colder than Utah.
Bobby Lambert: We'll get colder than utah.
Jimmy Lea: Well, of all the things, and in fact you're colder by 10 degrees.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Colder than what Utah is this morning. So are is Florida. Wondering, have the, has hell frozen over what's going on here?
Bobby Lambert: No. We we get these little cold bursts, but they're only every
Jimmy Lea: once in a while,
Bobby Lambert: one or two days, and then it is gone. So,
Jimmy Lea: so do you keep a jacket for those one or two days or do you
Bobby Lambert: just.
Jimmy Lea: Tough it out.
Bobby Lambert: No, we keep jackets. I was scurrying this morning getting propane for the shop heaters so the guys would, could function a little bit.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. That's hilarious. Because you, you're down in the 34 degrees this morning
Bobby Lambert: and we were
Jimmy Lea: Oh, my word. Yeah. And Utah, we were 44 degrees. And this podcast is being recorded on Veteran's Day, November 11th.
Bobby Lambert: Thank you to all the veterans.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you to all the veterans. Thank you for your service. Thank you for keeping us free and where Freedom Rings. Love it. Bobby, I want to get right into this in talking about your journey and your experience, how did you get into the automotive aftermarket?
Bobby Lambert: Pretty much like everyone else, I had this burning desire when I was a kid to wanna know how things worked and work on things and, you know.
Bobby Lambert: I went through the VO-tech program in our high school, and the instructor there had a transmission shop, and I worked for him in the afternoons, and then I moved to Florida and went to work here at Lake Sumter Transmissions in 1982. Pretty much had every job in this place up until 2017 when the previous owners decided they wanted to retire.
Bobby Lambert: And offered me the business and showed me how to make it pay for itself and with their help and help the institute here. I sit with the, you know, this shop on the verge of making its biggest year ever biggest profits, margins ever opened. My second shop this year it's just phenomenally rolling along and I couldn't be happier.
Jimmy Lea: Bobby, that is phenomenal. Congratulations. I'm so excited. I'm, there's so much to unpack in what you have just said. I wanna go back to the start here. You're at the vo-tech program at high school. Where did you go to high school?
Bobby Lambert: Camden High School in Camden, South Carolina.
Jimmy Lea: South Carolina.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Thank you to the vo-tech program. Thank you for those teachers who would take you under their wing, bring you into the transmission shop, which is the
Bobby Lambert: absolutely
Jimmy Lea: puzzle of a thousand pieces with no pictures.
Jimmy Lea: When did you start working on transmissions? When did you start breaking them down and putting 'em back together?
Jimmy Lea: What did that look like for you?
Bobby Lambert: Pretty much when I was a senior in high school, he, you know, we'd. We were working on 'em in the vo-tech class. And then, like I said, I was working with him in the afternoon, so I'd pull the transmissions out and have 'em torn apart. He'd come in order the parts and you we'd work on putting 'em back together.
Bobby Lambert: And then I moved to Florida and started all over.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. That's amazing. So, what took you to Florida from South Carolina?
Bobby Lambert: We're chasing a girl.
Jimmy Lea: Ah, there it is. Did you catch the girl?
Bobby Lambert: For about a year, and then she moved on, so I
Jimmy Lea: stayed. Ah, there you go. So you were already at Link Sumner when when she moved on?
Jimmy Lea: Yes. And your career just continued on there. So as you are working at Link Sumner did they have a program laid out for you? Did you have training laid out for you? Did what? What did that future look like for you?
Bobby Lambert: It, it was back in 82, 83. So really wasn't a whole lot of programs out there for this kind of stuff.
Bobby Lambert: It was pretty much on the job training. I was an r and r Tech for about a year, and then they started bringing me along, building transmissions. Started with the Turbo three 50 and it was pretty easy transmission. Okay. We would stay at. In the evenings about two hours a night and work on individual pieces of that transmission, how they worked, putting 'em together, you know, and it was just my time and his time didn't get paid for it, but I learned a huge skill.
Jimmy Lea: Wow.
Bobby Lambert: So, so
Jimmy Lea: is this something that the owner did know?
Bobby Lambert: The owner. The owners did, yes. For you? Yep. The owners did.
Jimmy Lea: So this is a two hour course every night that you're learning and learning more about transmissions. Yes. How they work, why they work, what each of the elements are inside of them.
Jimmy Lea: So this is your free education that only costs you time.
Bobby Lambert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. That's awesome.
Bobby Lambert: It was
Jimmy Lea: awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Your technical skill was growing by the school of hard knocks. You were, yes. You were learning and growing all along the way. And learning all about these transmissions. So at what point did you transition from transmissions to full auto care?
Bobby Lambert: Probably around 2008 when the economy tank and cash for clunkers were here and they were crushing all the cars that we were gonna have to. Put transmissions in and we were slow and customer would come in, Hey, while you got it, can you put spark plugs in? Sure, we can do that. I mean, so, you know, and it just, it started snowballing from there and it's probably 45 or 50% of my business now.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. So, and what does the layout look like of the first Lake Sumpter? What's that layout look like with your transmission shop?
Bobby Lambert: This particular location has 10 bays. Nine of 'em are inside, one's an outside bay for motor homes and box trucks and that kind of stuff. Six technicians, three service advisors, customer service agent, and my manager, my wife, my side myself and my wife.
Bobby Lambert: So pretty big staff here?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is 10 bays. And how many technicians did you say?
Bobby Lambert: Six technicians. I left my transmission builder out, so he's, that's all he does is build transmission. So he is not really out there slinging wrenches on the cars or anything. He's out there, you know, making sure the transmissions are fixed.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Right, right, right. So, of your six you have six technicians doing auto care. Do they also do transmission as well, or
Bobby Lambert: They'll r and r the transmissions? Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Wow. Okay. And at what point after you, well, what leading up to you buying the shop, what year did you buy Lake Sumner?
Bobby Lambert: I bought it in January of 2018.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word, congratulations. Exciting, scary as heck.
Bobby Lambert: Yes. Yes,
Jimmy Lea: yes. To all the above. And
Bobby Lambert: then
Jimmy Lea: some more. So what did that process look like for you with the previous owners and you buying it out?
Bobby Lambert: You know, they had brought me along every step of the way from the r and r tech building transmissions, and I was their diagnostic tech.
Bobby Lambert: Then I was a service advisor. And manager and the only thing I didn't do was sign the checks. But then, you know, they just taught me so much.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: But there was a lot that they didn't teach me, which I found out after I signed on the bottom line there. Hey, I knew nothing about these numbers in this office.
Bobby Lambert: And that's where. The institute, well, when it was RLO is when I signed up with them and of course when Cecil and everybody bought it, it was big change. But it's been a, it's been a huge help.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. So here you are growing up in the business, just like the Rockefeller, you did everything from sweeping the floors and buying the stir sticks to wiping the counters and working the front counter.
Jimmy Lea: You were the general manager, and you would've thought that doing everything in that day-to-day, you would've thought that you knew how to run the business, and then you discover
Bobby Lambert: no,
Jimmy Lea: being the owner is a different skillset,
Bobby Lambert: a whole different skillset set.
Jimmy Lea: So how long did you go from signing on the dotted line to saying, okay, I need coaching and training?
Bobby Lambert: We signed in January went to the NAPA conference in Biloxi in June and sat in Dan's class and says, damn, that guy's telling me everything I need to hear.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: So I immediately found him at the expo hall and said, sign me up.
Jimmy Lea: Sign me up. I'm in.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. I got, I had to do something because,
Jimmy Lea: oh, congratulations.
Jimmy Lea: That that's such a unique situation to know that you didn't know. And then once you heard it, you were saying, oh my gosh, yes. I need to know more about everything that this man is teaching and talking about whole different skill set.
Bobby Lambert: Then they put me through the Gorilla Shop management course with Vic.
Bobby Lambert: And went through that, signed me up with John LERs. A coach.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: And he kicked my ass for about a year and a half.
Jimmy Lea: Good, good. Sounds like you needed it.
Bobby Lambert: I did. I did so, and I was that I can't do that. My, my area won't support that. Yeah. It will.
Jimmy Lea: It will. Yeah, it does. Yes, it does. Right.
Bobby Lambert: And then we joined up in the BDG group or the, I'm sorry the
Jimmy Lea: BBL group.
Jimmy Lea: BPG.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Bbl. Yeah. Bottom line named Pat Group.
Bobby Lambert: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: And now you're in the Gear performance group
Bobby Lambert: with my, yep. Uhhuh.
Jimmy Lea: Which, which group are you in?
Bobby Lambert: Group two.
Jimmy Lea: Group two. Oh yeah. That's the technology, the best group technology. That is a very good group for sure. They are very forward thinking.
Jimmy Lea: Technology adopting group two is on the cutting edge. So yeah you are in a good group there, Bobby. That's awesome.
Bobby Lambert: And that brings us to where we're at today
Jimmy Lea: and where are you at today? Oh, that is awesome. So at what point do you decide you look around and say, Hey, you know what? I think it's time to open a second shop.
Jimmy Lea: Let's go find something to buy. Let's go find something to build. What did you do?
Bobby Lambert: You know, I'm sitting there in these these gear performance groups and listening to other multi shop owners. There's I think three or four of us in there, and I'm thinking. First we were in there with AJ and you know,
Jimmy Lea: AJ Neely, great
Bobby Lambert: guy,
Jimmy Lea: love him.
Bobby Lambert: And he scared me to death. I had no earthly idea how that guy just does what he does, but he does it. But and I'm like, man, that's some ambition. I don't know if I ever want two shots. And then one came available. So, and I had a friend of mine that wanted to manage a shop. I took a chance on him and it's it's doing well.
Jimmy Lea: Well, congratulations. What does this second shop look like? What's the footprint?
Bobby Lambert: The footprint of that one is four bays, again, one more bay outside. So five, five lifts in total two techs and my manager slash service advisor there. So just three people at that shop, but
Jimmy Lea: Wow.
Bobby Lambert: Wow. It didn't have the best reputation and we're slowly turning it around.
Bobby Lambert: I've gotten him in the the coaching program with Ryan in the apg With the advisor? Yeah, sorry. Advisor performance group. Yeah. And he's picking up something every time they talk and that's just so excited. So excited. I gotta reign him in. He gets going too fast and just gotta slow him down a little bit.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Don't outrun the horses. Come on now. Hold up.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. But that shop is it's turning around. Like I said it's growing every month. It's not putting up huge numbers or anything, but it's a steady climb and steady progression and we we're extremely fortunate.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. With these smaller shops, these three bays, four bays, two techs, one service advisor.
Jimmy Lea: It can be a lean, mean fighting machine. You know? Yeah. It doesn't put up the big numbers, but the net, the gross profit, the net profit, it can be very impressive.
Bobby Lambert: Yes. So,
Jimmy Lea: so if something came along again, Bobby and would there be an option for a third shop?
Bobby Lambert: I can say yes. 'cause my wife's not here in the office with me today.
Bobby Lambert: She's at home so. She would be shooting daggers if she saw that, but I would not be opposed to a third shop if one came along. Yeah. But the caveat to that is I've only got about four more years left in me before I'm ready to retire.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. No, let's talk about retiring and if you're retiring then what?
Jimmy Lea: Well, not the, then what, hold on. Let's back up.
Jimmy Lea: Who's gonna buy your shops from you? What's the plan there? Do you have a plan in place?
Bobby Lambert: I have a semi plan. Yeah. We don't have anything hammered out in full details or anything, but yes, my my manager at this location is very much interested in this one and the manager, the other one, he's interested in that one.
Bobby Lambert: So I'll split 'em up and, have them buy them if they want. And if we can't, then I'm talking to my buddy Michael Smith and I'm in his classes as well. So you can't learn too much in this business.
Jimmy Lea: And even if they are not the ones that end up buying it. Even if, and let's go with that as the current plan, you still need to talk to Michael Smith.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Michael Herzberg Smith about that succession plan. That's something that you do want to have in place and the way to start it is now
Bobby Lambert: yes.
Jimmy Lea: Anybody that wants to sell their business and they want to sell it today. We need a flex capacitor in 88 miles an hour. 'cause we gotta go back in time three to five years.
Jimmy Lea: So you are in the perfect spot is put in place so that your key employees are the ones that are able to buy it and there are ways for them to buy it where don't have to come in with cold hard cash and put 20% down.
Bobby Lambert: Right.
Jimmy Lea: Over the next three to five years, they're earning that 20% down. And then they are able to refinance it, get a small business loan.
Jimmy Lea: And and Bobby and wife are sitting on the beach drinking my ties.
Bobby Lambert: That's right. But yeah, the Michael Smith is he is a wealth of information and we've we've been talking and trying to hammer out a few details here and there, and
Jimmy Lea: good.
Bobby Lambert: But I'll go back to the previous owners that had this shop when I bought it there, there were two of them.
Bobby Lambert: And one of 'em told me, he says, the day you sign on the line, start your exit plan.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, so smart.
Bobby Lambert: So start right there, know where your goal is and keep it in sight.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah,
Bobby Lambert: the other one said, get yourself in a good 20 group.
Jimmy Lea: Bingo.
Bobby Lambert: Like I said, me, how do it,
Jimmy Lea: what's a 20 girl
Bobby Lambert: not go? Yep. Showed me how to do it and not go wrong.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. That's good. Congratulations, man. That's awesome. So the future is three to five years. Bobby's ready to retire.
Jimmy Lea: Gonna sell the businesses. And then what?
Bobby Lambert: Well, we just bought a motor home, so we're gonna travel the country a little bit in the motor home and see what's out there. Love
Jimmy Lea: it.
Bobby Lambert: Keep popping in here and see how these guys are doing. And
Jimmy Lea: there you go. I love it. I love it.
Bobby Lambert: Tell 'em all about my adventures and. Love it. I'm going again.
Jimmy Lea: We'll get you one of these water bottles that has the national parks on it and you go visit every single one of the national parks.
Jimmy Lea: And when you get to Utah, let me know 'cause I'll show you right where all the good Utah parks are.
Bobby Lambert: I'll do it.
Jimmy Lea: Cool. But,
Bobby Lambert: Yeah the future looks good for us. I'm super happy with where the shop is. We are consistently. That 20 plus percent
Jimmy Lea: net profit.
Bobby Lambert: Yes. Month after month,
Jimmy Lea: 20 plus percent net profit,
Bobby Lambert: month after month, year after year.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. How do you do that?
Bobby Lambert: How?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: You get a fantastic coach and facilitator like Jennifer. Jennifer Holbert.
Jimmy Lea: Jennifer Holbert is awesome. I agree.
Bobby Lambert: She. Helps me watch my numbers, but the key is control your expenses.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: If you're making money, save some money.
Jimmy Lea: Amen.
Bobby Lambert: You don't have to spend everything you make.
Jimmy Lea: That is so true. But I just did a podcast very recently with Clinton and he talked about how one year compared to the next, he cut. A ton of expenses. He did $16,000 less in total revenue, but netted an additional 8,000 for the entire year. If you can control your expenses, you can control what you take home, and that's where the awards come from, is you are awarded based on your ability to keep it.
Jimmy Lea: Keep it in the bank, keep it at home.
Bobby Lambert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Good for you. Congratulations. Thank you. That is awesome, that you're able to work on the business and not necessarily in the business that you are expanding the business and growing the business.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. I don't make any appointments. I go say hi to customers, but I don't talk to customers about their vehicles.
Bobby Lambert: I don't. It's just, that's not my job.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. It's I've got awesome people in place that do such a great job at doing that. Yeah. I don't need to, I just can go enjoy the customer, sit and have a conversation.
Jimmy Lea: Let your employees do what they were hired to do. Let them do their job.
Bobby Lambert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Congrats. What now? We talk about empowering the employees and, you know, we all have bills to pay and we can't pay the bills on feel good. We do need money. How do you pay your employees? What's your pay plans for technicians and advisors? And managers? What do you do?
Bobby Lambert: Well, no one pay plan is right for every technician.
Jimmy Lea: True. Wow. Okay. So do you have different pay plans for each of your techs in-house right now? I do.
Bobby Lambert: I do.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my
Bobby Lambert: god. I have hourly techs. I have techs that are on a guarantee and you know, I have flat rate techs. Just whatever that tech has. You can't take a 25 year tech and say you've been flat rate all your life.
Bobby Lambert: You're going hourly.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. He wouldn't know how to compute
Bobby Lambert: that. Yeah he's, so I. They know what they need.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,
Bobby Lambert: I know what I need. So you tell me what you need. I'll see how we can make it work and we make things work.
Jimmy Lea: So are there performance kickers in there as well?
Bobby Lambert: There are, yes.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So let's talk about your hourly employees.
Jimmy Lea: Your hourly technicians.
Jimmy Lea: Who are they? What does it look like? Not specific names per se. Yeah. What's the demographic of it look like?
Bobby Lambert: Basically, I've got two hourly techs and they're pretty much part-time. They're approaching retirement age, so they're not producing the hours, so let's keep them on an hourly.
Bobby Lambert: They're, their bodies are not letting them do the jobs that they have done all their lives.
Bobby Lambert: So we're backing 'em down. Yeah. Just. I'm not firing you. I wanna keep you going. You've got a great mind. You know so much about these cars. Let's keep you here. Let's make things happen for you. But at the same time, we're gonna cut your hours back so your body can let you enjoy some life.
Bobby Lambert: Because if I keep pushing you 40 hours a week and your body keeps breaking down, you're giving me 20 hours a week in production. That's not good for either of us.
Jimmy Lea: Wow.
Bobby Lambert: So we, we back it down and you know, we pay 'em what they need to make a living. My guaranteed texts once they hit their minimum hours, they get a bump.
Bobby Lambert: So, usually, so, so what
Jimmy Lea: is that number? Is it, is it a 40?
Bobby Lambert: It's around 30, 32 hours is the minimum they have to turn.
Jimmy Lea: Per week. Okay.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. So once they hit that, they get a $5 an hour bump back to hour one.
Jimmy Lea: That's phenomenal. And so these gen, these ladies and gentlemen that are on a guarantee, how often do they exceed that?
Jimmy Lea: 32
Bobby Lambert: Most every week.
Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful.
Bobby Lambert: So
Jimmy Lea: does that mean that they're up in the forties?
Jimmy Lea: 40 twos fi. 40 fives,
Bobby Lambert: yes.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. That's extraordinary. That's awesome. Congrats. And then you say you also have technicians that are flat rate. What does that look like?
Bobby Lambert: My flat rate techs, there's two of them.
Bobby Lambert: One of them is an r and r Tech. All he is, that's all he is done all his life. R and r transmissions phenomenal at it.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Bobby Lambert: He's producing. 50 to 70 hours every week, just slinging transmissions.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word.
Bobby Lambert: Just slinging transmissions.
Jimmy Lea: That's because he knows all the shortcuts. He knows the secrets, he knows the how tos and whatnots and have been, and probably could do it in his sleep blindfolded.
Bobby Lambert: And you know, you say that the secrets and the shortcuts, but it's so much more than that. It's a mindset.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
It
Bobby Lambert: doesn't look at the job as like, oh, I hate these things. It, this. He just looks at it and says, this is a job. It pays four hours. I can get it done in two.
Jimmy Lea: Ooh, bingo.
Bobby Lambert: And it is, just get on it, get it done.
Bobby Lambert: Gimme another one.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Yeah. Just line him up. Line him up and I'll knock him down.
Bobby Lambert: I have to slow him down sometimes because you, we have 10 lifts and he'll have. Six transmissions out. So you got six lifts tied up with transmission. So we have to drink. Reign him in just a little bit once in a while.
Bobby Lambert: But
Jimmy Lea: yeah, that's pretty, that was, that's pretty good. He's got six transmissions out to keep all those straight in your head and know exactly where you're on each single one of 'em. Oh my goodness sakes. What a mind That is phenomenal.
Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Bobby, that, that is amazing. You've got such a a diverse group, such a motley crew put together of hourlies and guarantees and flat rates. I mean, any discussion that comes around, you can participate. You're in there.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. Well, you have to, like I said, I mean, everybody doesn't work the same way.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: You when you want top talent, it's. Meeting them where they need to be.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. I love that you've got those performance kickers in there as well at a level that says, Hey, I know you can hit this every month. And this is, keep your job. Hit 32. Count 32, bonus. Let's go. Yeah. You want to rake it in for a really good Christmas?
Jimmy Lea: Let's go.
Bobby Lambert: Yep,
Jimmy Lea: we can do that. All right. Now what about your advisors? How are they, what's their pay plan look like?
Bobby Lambert: My advisors are all a weekly salary. Then at the end of the month they get bonuses off of their gross profit dollars. Usually it's one and a half percent of the shops gross profit dollars, 3% of their individual.
Bobby Lambert: So. They'll get a bonus usually in the neighborhood of about four grand a month.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow.
Bobby Lambert: So it, it keeps them motivated to help each other because they're getting one and a half percent of what the shop does. If it's just paying them what they do, I'm not helping him with that. That's his customer.
Bobby Lambert: He can, but no, I mean, you're all in this together. You're all getting paid but's.
Jimmy Lea: It's a team. It's a team effort.
Bobby Lambert: It is a team.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's extraordinary. And it's paid off of the gross profit. Did I hear you say that right?
Bobby Lambert: Gross profit dollars? Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. That's phenomenal. And each, and how many service advisors do you have?
Bobby Lambert: Three. Three At this shop and one at the other?
Jimmy Lea: Three at this shop. And one at the other shop?
Bobby Lambert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: But the, and the shops do operate separately, or is it
Bobby Lambert: They're completely separate businesses.
Jimmy Lea: Separate business. Separate business names.
Bobby Lambert: Well, they're, well this is Lake Sumter Transmissions and Auto Repair.
Bobby Lambert: The other one is Lake Sumter Auto Repair.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Okay. And they operate separate. So each one, each advisor is concerned about making sure that their company, their business, their operation is functioning at the best they can possibly. Exactly. It's phenomenal. That is phenomenal. That's very cool. I you've got a great program set up there and how did you come about all of these different ideas or all these different ways of paying all your technicians?
Jimmy Lea: Where did that come from?
Bobby Lambert: You? Just a lot of listening in my 20 group. And if you got a question, you put it out there, somebody's got an answer for it. So, and that's the. Biggest bonus to these 20 groups is the amount of knowledge that's in that room when you're in there, in that three day meeting.
Bobby Lambert: But it extends to every day. I can shoot a text out and say, Hey, I'm thinking about this. What do you guys, what do, what's your thoughts on this? Excuse me. And I'll get five or six answers in 15 minutes. And it, they are awesome people. Awesome businessmen.
Jimmy Lea: That is very cool. See, I and I explain this to a lot of people and I try to explain it.
Jimmy Lea: If you can confirm or deny. Here. You come to the group and you've got this huge mountain of a problem that you think is a huge mountain of a problem because you have thought about it and thought about it and thought about it, and you're thinking, oh my gosh, there's no way I'm gonna be able to get over this mountain.
Jimmy Lea: This is a huge problem. What am I gonna do? You put it out to the group and the group comes back and says, oh, Sally solved that here last week. And John was last month. And Joe did it the other day. So here's five different solutions. From five different areas, five different companies, what they did.
Jimmy Lea: So you listen to all this and go, oh, it's not a mountain anymore. This is a mole hill. I can easily step over that. And the group is saying, okay, come on, let's go.
Bobby Lambert: You the, you say that and it's, I think back to. When I bought the shop, what our hourly shop rate was and we were below a hundred dollars an hour.
Bobby Lambert: We were at like $96 an hour or something like that, right? And Waffler kept saying, raise your labor rate. You're way too low. You need to be 115, said John, I can't get 115. So it took him, I don't know, 3, 4, 5 months of just get over that a hundred dollars. Finally I went over a hundred dollars and it was like nobody noticed.
Jimmy Lea: No,
Bobby Lambert: it's 110. Nobody noticed it. It the only one that's noticing that labor rate is me.
Bobby Lambert: I, and I, and that's the same way with just about anything. I mean, you see a change that you need to make and you talk yourself and talk yourself, and it's. Not a huge deal.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: You make it a huge deal, but it's not a big deal.
Jimmy Lea: No, it's really not. And I talked I spoke with a friend of mine about this specifically raising your labor rate, and we were talking about $10, raise it by $10, raise it by $20, raise it by $30, and he's like, oh no.
Jimmy Lea: Okay I'm gonna raise it by $4 and 50 cents.
Bobby Lambert: You don't move the needle.
Jimmy Lea: Listen, shop owner I happen to know that your average ticket is two and a half hours. That's an additional 13 bucks.
Jimmy Lea: No. Is anybody gonna notice that? No. What if you do it by $10 and it's an additional 25 bucks? Is anybody get a notice?
Bobby Lambert: No.
Jimmy Lea: No? Okay. What if it's an additional 50 bucks? Anybody get a notice? Probably not, but maybe
Bobby Lambert: The ones that'll notice are the ones that you don't really want anyway, the customer that you don't,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah. And it could be a, an easy way of chasing off the customers that you Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Really shouldn't be servicing anyways. They're the 80 20 rule. That's that 20% that takes up 80% of your time,
Bobby Lambert: you'll get that better quality vehicle to work on.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, bingo. Bingo. What does your shops work on? What do you guys like to work on?
Bobby Lambert: We don't care if it's broke, we'll fix it.
Jimmy Lea: It's got wheels in an engine.
Jimmy Lea: We'll work on it.
Bobby Lambert: We don't shy away from anything. And maybe that's our detriment. Now in our main shop here, like I said, we have 10 bays here. We have two extra bays that it's in a separate building that we do classic cars in.
Jimmy Lea: Oh.
Bobby Lambert: So, you know, we're down here at the edge of the villages and there's so much disposable income in there.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. And disposable money. And they got the cars that they have always wanted when they were in high school. These cars leak constantly. They lease when they were new.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: So we keep two in that building pretty much all the time. And there's a list, a waiting list to get in that building. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's amazing.
Bobby Lambert: Just work on just about anything. Right now I think we've got a 70 Plymouth Road runner in there and a 72 Chevy pickup truck.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. What great trucks I, in high school or college, I drove a 71 long bed.
Jimmy Lea: Had a granny, granny gear and three.
Bobby Lambert: Yep. This one's a long bed with Power Glide.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, gee I tell you, any, if I tried to go faster than 65 miles an hour, that old engine was just a screaming at me. It didn't have any more gears.
Bobby Lambert: Kept you from speeding.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah, it did. Yeah. No, couldn't do it. The only way I'd speed is going downhill with a tailwind.
Bobby Lambert: But,
Jimmy Lea: Oh, so fun. So fun. Well, Bobby, if you had a a magic wand and you could change anything in the industry, what's something you would change in the industry and you can't wish for more wishes?
Bobby Lambert: No. I could change anything in the industry.
Bobby Lambert: Oh, man. Yeah. You know, I There's a lot of things that you could change.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bobby Lambert: In my little world.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,
Bobby Lambert: I, I, my little wand here says, Hey buddy, you're perfect. Let's keep this thing going. Let's just, let's not rock the boat too bad. But the magic wand I'D wave would be at insurance companies and try to get some decent rates.
Bobby Lambert: God, it's so expensive. Health insurance and garage keepers. It is all just way overpriced.
Jimmy Lea: Amen, brother. Amen.
Bobby Lambert: But everybody's gotta make a living, so that's what they're doing. So
Jimmy Lea: there you go.
Bobby Lambert: But no that's probably the only thing I'd wanna change would be something like that. 'cause I love my life right now.
Bobby Lambert: It's doing great. I can sit here and look out the door and I can see all my guys walking back and forth roundabout and the cars in the parking lot. And life is good over here in, in Lee Burke, Florida.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. It's a, it's good to live a blessed life.
Bobby Lambert: Its,
Jimmy Lea: you're living that blessed life.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Bobby Lambert: And that's huge respect and props to the institute for showing me how to live this life that that is been bestowed upon me, I guess.
Jimmy Lea: Ah, that's beautiful here. You were growing up in the industry. You have the chops, you have the technical background for everything technical, and you knew there was things you thought you knew at all and then you discovered, oh my gosh, there's things I don't know.
Jimmy Lea: I don't know.
Jimmy Lea: I need training, I need coaching, I need guidance and props to you for seeking out that guidance. And Bobby, I think I was at that Biloxi, Mississippi 2018.
Bobby Lambert: You probably were,
Jimmy Lea: I was probably there. You were probably there at the same time. That's pretty cool.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah,
Jimmy Lea: that's pretty cool. So, one, one last final question for you.
Jimmy Lea: If you were starting fresh today, what advice would you give yourself?
Bobby Lambert: Oh, probably the same advice that that I got when I did get started is yeah. Find someone to help you over the rough spots and you're gonna have rough spots. But they they're pretty easy If you get a good support system to help carry you right across the top of 'em.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Go for the coaching and training.
Jimmy Lea: It's gonna make a world of difference.
Bobby Lambert: It does. I've actually got two shops in our area that I got coaching. With the institute and now they're 20 group members as well, so.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations that Talk about locking arms with your neighbors. This is great.
Bobby Lambert: Yeah. That was something else that was taught to me.
Bobby Lambert: They're not competition, they're not competitors. They're other shop owners. There are other business owners. Everybody. There's enough out there for everybody
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. To
Bobby Lambert: help somebody along. Oh,
Jimmy Lea: amen.
Bobby Lambert: Don't kick 'em to the curb whenever they're down. Just, Hey, what do you need, buddy?
Bobby Lambert: Amen. Let's talk this thing through. Let's figure things out.
Jimmy Lea: For you. Congratulations. That's awesome. You've locked arms together with them and Yeah. I mean, think about it. If the three of you and the four shops that you represent, it, could you service every car that passed in front of your shop every single day?
Bobby Lambert: No.
Jimmy Lea: No. Not a chance. Let's lock arms, let's elevate the industry. And Bob, Bobby, props to you brother for elevating this industry.
Bobby Lambert: Sure. Thank you.
Jimmy Lea: That is super cool. Thank you very much, Bobby. I really appreciate it, brother.
Bobby Lambert: Jimmy, thanks for your time today. It was a absolute that had a lot of fun.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's what we're all about. We're here to have fun. If we're not having fun, we're not doing it right. If we're not doing it right, we better find something else to do. All right, Bobby, thank you very much.
Bobby Lambert: Thank you, Jimmy.

167 - Owning the Alignment Niche and Building a Happier, High-Margin Shop with Alejandro Muñoz

167 - Owning the Alignment Niche and Building a Happier, High-Margin Shop with Alejandro Muñoz
October 30, 2025 - 00:40:23
 
Show Summary:
From sweeping floors in New Jersey to leading All Four Tires in Marietta, Georgia, Alejandro Muñoz shares how he built a tire and suspension focused business that fits his life. He scaled up to 18 bays, then intentionally downsized to six to reduce stress and raise margins. Alejandro explains why not every shop needs a master tech and how a tight scope of work can improve quality and profitability. He details his apprentice-first training approach, consistent retention, and a culture that rewards learning and life balance. The conversation covers hands-on training goals, DVI-driven maintenance sales, and stocking strategies that speed throughput. Alejandro also describes designing a customer-forward facility to elevate how the public views our industry. His closing advice is simple and powerful: do not overspend, learn the business side, and invest in yourself.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Alejandro Munoz, Owner of All 4 Tires LLC
 
Show Highlights:
[00:04:27] - Alejandro buys a three-unit property, scales to 18 bays, then later consolidates to one unit to reduce complexity and stress.[00:06:56] - Intentional downsizing to six bays increases free time and lifts gross profit margin while keeping the business stable.[00:08:04] - Lean team model: two full-time B-techs, a part-time learner, a long-tenured service advisor, and Alejandro overseeing training and quality.[00:09:00] - Clear scope wins: tires, suspension, alignments, and emissions repairs, avoiding work that requires a different talent mix.[00:10:49] - In-house apprenticeship: classroom sessions, projector-based lessons, and a three-plus-year average retention for techs who start with little experience.[00:11:44] - Culture moments that matter: a paid December Caribbean trip for the whole team tied to collective performance.[00:15:34] - Tires are 30% of sales but drive most suspension work, with reputation bringing in six alignment appointments per day.[00:17:42] - DVI process and smart stocking of filters, wipers, and batteries convert inspections into fast, ethical maintenance sales.[00:26:22] - Industry wish: change how the world sees automotive careers and shops by offering professional spaces and experiences.[00:33:48] - Hard-earned lesson: do not overspend; pay for knowledge or pay through mistakes, but always invest in business education.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello friend. My name is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Alex, and he is in Marietta, California. California, that's where my other cousin is. He's in Marietta, Georgia, where my other cousin is. His shop is called All Four Tires website, all four tires.com in Marietta, Georgia.
Jimmy Lea: Welcome, if you will with me. Alex. Alex, how are you brother?
Alejandro Munoz: I'm doing great. Thank you so much for the invite. Oh, you're welcome man. I'm excited to be here.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I'm excited for your shop as well. It looks like I'm looking at your website. It's a beautiful shop. You've got it set up extremely well. It's, this is cool.
Jimmy Lea: How long have you been in business?
Alejandro Munoz: Well, I've been, overtime has been open for 11 years this month. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And I've been in the automotive industry since 2010.
Jimmy Lea: I remember 10. That's when I had to reinvent myself. So you got into the business, both of us. Let's go back to there.
Jimmy Lea: 2010. What? What happened? How did you get into the automotive industry?
Alejandro Munoz: Well, that's interesting you asked the question. I moved from Columbia, south America. I'm originally from there, and I, you know, for personal reasons, I have to move to the us. My mom lived in New Jersey and family members had a shop, a small shop, and I got the opportunity to get my first job there.
Alejandro Munoz: Basically, you won't believe this, but sweeping the floor and learning how to do all the changes.
Jimmy Lea: I believe it. That's where everybody starts.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So, I stayed there for probably a couple years and I learned a lot. I have a background of engineering, so I'm a mechanical, I'm biomedical engineer, so it didn't take me too long.
Alejandro Munoz: To kind of get my mind aligned with the automotive industry. I loved it since day one. Yeah. And I had great people around me. I remember I have a couple great technicians back in those days, which I learned a lot from, I. Watching, you know, passing them the tools and helping them clean their mess and, you know, asking them for the opportunity to jump on.
Alejandro Munoz: And definitely after a few months, I was able to start working. Own cars, getting my own tools and, you know, a lot of independent study. Yeah. I gotta tell you that even though I have a background in engineering, I have to learn how cars work and that most of that happened at night, you know, so I'll finish working, I'll go home and I sign up to any online class or, you know, training available, and I just started absorbing until.
Alejandro Munoz: Couple years later, I was already, you know, swapping engines and doing timing bells and all this kind of stuff. So we started selling tires in that same location in, in big volume. Yeah. And then I moved to a different company and this company was more towards tires. It was about 70% of their sales were just tires.
Alejandro Munoz: Their inventory was huge. And over there I learned that part of how to sell tires in the automotive industry.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah, a few year, years later in 2014 I moved to Georgia and you know, I thought it was a better place to live you know, compared with New Jersey. With all respect for people from New Jersey.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We love our friends from New Jersey. It's the garden state. There's a reason. It's the garden state and we know the history. Yes, but Georgia.
Alejandro Munoz: Georgia, so I landed in Georgia and about nine months later I have found a pretty good shop to open all four tires and the rest is just, sorry.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Jimmy Lea: Congrats. So what is the shop look like? How many bays? How many techs? And is this the, this is the shop you opened after being in Georgia for nine months.
Alejandro Munoz: Yes. Yes. Okay. We have never moved. Well, it is good you ask. Offer Tire has been, you know, up and down over the years, like any other business.
Alejandro Munoz: This shop is huge. The property has three different units. Each unit has about six base. So I was, I started leasing one after two and a half years. The owner was selling the property, so I bought all three units. 'cause it was, oh my
Jimmy Lea: gosh. Yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: It was part of the same parcel. So, and then I, with all the motivation and excitement that I had back in those days, I decided I wanted to occupy everything and didn't want to lease any part of the units.
Alejandro Munoz: I pulled all three of units together. And yeah, we did a pretty good amount of growth sales during 20 17, 18 yeah, part of 19 until COVID. And then it took a big toll the amount of stress to manage a big job. You know, I went through emotions and, you know, stress and, you know, I was getting sick because I was just dealing a lot of, dealing with a lot of the, you know, day-to-day duties of running a chop with multiple people working for you.
Alejandro Munoz: So, and then I I left the business running. With my service advisor, she's been with me almost since I opened. I mean, she joined me probably before nine months of being running the business and she's been with me since then. So yeah, I moved back to Columbia in 2021. Oh, and the business. Stay here, you know, open, and I came back about 18 months ago, but now with a different perspective, the small, the chop is smaller.
Alejandro Munoz: Right now our gross profit margin is higher. Okay. But I, that was a personal decision. Yeah. That was, you know, it was not everybody wants to be a multi-location shop, and I learned that. Yes. You know, based on the experience, so,
Jimmy Lea: yes. Yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: The other two units now are rented or leased to other companies.
Alejandro Munoz: What kind of companies? What, who's in there? We do have a mankey car care. Okay. We do have a car dealership. They don't do any retail, anything. They just fix their cars in that shop. There's really no customer flow there. Okay. And then we're here. Yes.
Jimmy Lea: So, so you went from a single location, bought the entire thing, went garage Mahal on it, 18 bays, massive COVID hits, oh, hold on a second.
Jimmy Lea: Let's reevaluate Now you're down to six bays. I'm assuming you're just in the one building, one location. Six bays and much happier.
Alejandro Munoz: Much happier. A lot of free time for me and my family. And yes. Oh, nice. Yes, that's exactly how, congratulations how it is going right now.
Jimmy Lea: So with the six Bays that you have now, how many technicians, how many service advisors what does the makeup look like?
Alejandro Munoz: We do have two and a half technicians. Two, when I say two and a half is two, two full-time. And I always have a learner that it works part-time and you know, I have my service advisor and myself.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. That's good. So the two technicians, do you have one that is the professor, one that is the trainer, coach for the half tech?
Jimmy Lea: The part-time tech? Well, they, is it an apprentice?
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah, I, oh no I do have a two B Techs. So they know enough to do what we do. Yeah. And it is interesting you asked the question 'cause not every chop. Needs a master tech that wants to make $200,000 a year. So our shop is limited to suspension tires and emission repairs, and we basically leave it there.
Alejandro Munoz: All right. So what we do is basic.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. And
Alejandro Munoz: it, you know, with some, you know, requirements for computerized diagnostic, for like emissions, basically RC and sensors, catalytics and you know, and so forth. So. What I have done for several years and it's good you ask that question, is I have trained most of my technicians, I won't say everyone from scratch, but most of them come with.
Alejandro Munoz: Little to no knowledge. And I've been a trainer, so I have a teacher inside of me. So I have the classes prepared. I do have, you know, a projector, my computer, we do have a pretty big training room here in the company, and I teach them everything they know. So I do, we do keep, I would say, an average of.
Alejandro Munoz: Three and a half years of retention. We do know that this company it's al it also plays a role as cool for those who wants to learn and then fly away basically. So I, and it is interesting because every time I hire someone that wants to, I always tell them like, you probably not gonna stay here your whole life.
 
Jimmy Lea: Forever. Right?
Alejandro Munoz: Forever. But I want you to learn as much as you can while you're next to me. So I do most of the training. I do oversee the shop. My friend Kelly, my service advisor she takes care of most of the customer. I'm, you know, as a business owner, I'm back and forth, you know. Sure. Customers know, obviously know who I am.
Alejandro Munoz: But I love spending more time with my guys outside and, you know, making sure everything gets out on time and, you know. So on.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, Alex, that is phenomenal. I appreciate the teacher spirit that you have in teaching your technicians. That's phenomenal. Have you taken your techs and gone to any conferences or trade shows?
Alejandro Munoz: Some of them in the past have been with me. The ones that I currently have, they're, they haven't been able to go. Okay. The one is, they've both been here for about a year and a half.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Alejandro Munoz: So, since I came back from Columbia, as I told you so the situation of when you have a small shop now that is a small shop, it's, you know who gets to go.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. You know, and sometimes it's difficult to pick that, but I tell you what, we do have a Caribbean trip on December for Christmas, and we're closing the shop and everybody's going, so
Jimmy Lea: bravo.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So, you know, those are things that, and I always tell them, you know, don't take me for it. I'm not doing this for you.
Alejandro Munoz: You guys are doing this for yourself. Like, you know, everything that we can do, it's. It's a teamwork. Yeah. Like everything that we do is for everybody. So we are gonna be living in about four weeks the first week of December, and we'll go to the beach. Everything pay. And that's good.
Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful.
Jimmy Lea: They have been a blessing to you. Now you are being a blessing to them. And that's beautiful. I challenge you or this is free advice, so you know what free advice is worth. Take it into advisement. There's a show not very far from you in Raleigh, North Carolina. It's called a STA, automotive Service Tire Association, A STA.
Jimmy Lea: They do it in, usually it's in September. And so if you set a goal that says, Hey guys, if we can operate at this level every month. We'll shut down the entire shop and we'll all go to training at A STA Raleigh, North Carolina. Anybody that operates at this level, you get a go. If you're down here, you don't get a go.
Jimmy Lea: If you're up here, you get a go.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah that's great. I'll take that. But I also wanna share something. You know, it's interesting 'cause after COVID everything turned into virtual. Right much. Everybody wants to virtual classes. Yes. So I tell you what, back in the days before COVID Yes. We did have several opportunities for training with Goodyear Michelin.
Alejandro Munoz: Yes. You know, we were actually part of a TI for five years. Yes. You're familiar with a TI, the coaching company? Yes. And we travel a lot and everybody. Got to go. Like we, but now, nowadays it's like you get this invitation to join a Zoom meeting. So yeah, training is pretty active. But it's most done online right now.
Jimmy Lea: It is. And I love the online availability of it. I love the frequency and the ease of use, if you will. So we can be in Georgia and here we are in Utah. We put on the training and you're able to join. Because you can't always travel to Utah. We understand that. Yeah. In this training that they're doing with Asta, that hands-on training takes that learning level just a little bit higher.
Jimmy Lea: So we, yeah, we learn on Zoom, we can do that, but now when we put hands-on, it elevates that education, elevates their learning.
Alejandro Munoz: Yes, sir.
Jimmy Lea: Every technician I've ever talked to, every shop owner I've ever talked to, when they come back from training, those technicians operate at a higher level. They have learned how to work a picoscope.
Jimmy Lea: They've learned how to diagnose something. They've come back away from this training and say, you know what, if I would've known this. These other cars, we would've been able to fix those. We would've been able to make those repairs. And maybe for your business, because you're doing the filters, the shocks, the struts, the brakes, the brake pads, the calipers.
Jimmy Lea: Maybe it's the easier stuff, but it's also what you're good at. Maybe you don't need to know about timing scopes and timing belts and water pumps and alternators and starters. Maybe you don't, maybe everything you need to know is right there in the tires and brakes and brake pads because what percentage of your business is tires versus auto repair?
Alejandro Munoz: 30% of our sales is the tire itself. But the tire brings a lot of suspension work. It does. We used to have on our website all four tires, your tire and suspension experts, because there was a point since we opened, most of it will be suspension. Yes. Why? We very throttle on if you're gonna get a set of tires, we wanna make sure your tires will last
Jimmy Lea: a hundred percent.
Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. So not only is it the suspension and the sway bars and the control arms, it's the alignment. Do you have an alignment machine too?
Alejandro Munoz: Yes we do. And and it's interesting you mentioned like not everybody needs to learn about, you know, how to do, use a scope or how to do an electrical diagnostic.
Alejandro Munoz: Suspension is a whole science. It is. So we are alignment experts here. We do alignments all day long. Just to give you an idea, we get an average six alignment appointments. That's how well our reputation is, where we at. People bring vehicles here with drivability issues that nobody has been able to resolve.
Alejandro Munoz: So it's a whole science we spend most of our time. There on. And then the 30% of the tire sales that we do brings another. 60% additional on suspension work?
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. For sure.
Alejandro Munoz: Absolutely. So I can tell you for sure, 80% of our business stays there. Tires and suspension. We do open hoods. Yeah, I know shops and I met a guy who actually was a trainer and I learned a lot from him.
Alejandro Munoz: He said he own a shop and never open a hood. That's how you know. Interest in the suspension and tire is Oh yeah. Just fixing drivability issues. But we can tell probably 80% of our business comes from suspension and tires.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. That's phenomenal. Do you also get into the, like the oil changes the fluid flushes filters, what?
Jimmy Lea: Windshield wipers?
Alejandro Munoz: Yes. We do all that. We do have a system in place to do a multi-point inspection and you get to. Sell most of these items almost guarantee per vehicle.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, you
Alejandro Munoz: pull your cabin filter, you air filter, you check your wipers, you check your battery, you have to have a battery tester and you have to have a pretty good system in place to do multiple inspections.
Alejandro Munoz: The customers can see the pictures and videos and. And circles and details of what, what is needed. Oh, I love that. So we do have a filter rack. We keep most, 90%, 95% of the filters in the stock. And that's the only way to get done. Honestly. Nobody's gonna wait half an hour to an hour for an auto part to bring an air filter.
Alejandro Munoz: So you have to stock your filters, you have to stock your wipers, you have to stock your batteries. So yeah, we do take care of that portion as well. We partnered with Baline about seven years ago. Okay. I would say already. So all our fluids are baling, so we do. Brake fluid replacement. We do differential fluid replacement.
Alejandro Munoz: We don't touch transmissions. Because nowadays every transmission is different. It's not like in the nineties it was just one transmission fluid for everybody. Right. So we stay away. Yeah, we stay away from that. But we do power screen even though it's tending to disappear. And we do coolant flush, I mean, you name it.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. All the maintenance items will include it as part of our service as well.
Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. So what do you do as a company to retain your employees, to keep them engaged? How do you work on company culture?
Alejandro Munoz: It's been a process. I can tell you this. From 2014 when I opened the doors, and you probably heard this a hundred times, you think you're a great technician, so you decide to open a shop and then you realize life is not as beautiful as you think.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: So first, let me tell you this, you gotta work on yourself. Ooh, nice. My temper is not the same that it was in 2014. My patient is not the same that it was in 2014. You know? My ability to listen to other people's opinion. The ability to be able to share my knowledge with other people is from zero to 100.
Alejandro Munoz: Like, I'm right here. I was right there. So that probably answers your question. You need to work on yourself. You have to have your personality in place. To be able to teach others what you want to transmit as a company, your culture, it starts with yourself. I do believe that if you're not honest, if you don't treat your customers well, if you don't show up on time, if you don't help cleaning the shop, if you don't lead by example,
Jimmy Lea: yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: It's it, your culture is gonna be completely destroyed. So, I have to obviously give credit to God. I believe in God. You know, I'm not a religious person, but I do know that, you know, God can help you significantly when you have challenges on your personality. Yeah. And he will, you know, he will guide you through it.
Alejandro Munoz: So, and also education. Man, as I told you, we joined a coaching company for several years. I learned a lot. You know, as a business owner, if you want to create a culture, you gotta be around. You know, with those that are where you wanna be. If you wanna be a million dollar shop, then you have to meet with million dollar shop owners.
Jimmy Lea: You gotta surround yourself with the same people that you want to be.
Alejandro Munoz: Exactly. So we do, I mean, what else we do? We do have some perks here and there for the employees. We do pay for some of the tools. We obviously, we listen to them, to their personal needs. You know, if they have a family emergency, we take in consideration if they're parents, they have kids.
Alejandro Munoz: You know, if at some point you might have people that have family members that you know depend on them to do daily duties. And you know, being able to listen to their needs as well. They will give you a hundred percent, 150%, 200%. It's not about the time or the amount of hours that they clock in, is the quality of service that they can provide you.
Alejandro Munoz: When you adjust yourself, and I'm telling you this from a very conservative point of view, because I was raised differently than the way these kids are now in the market. Trying to find a job.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Alejandro Munoz: It's a different world.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Alejandro Munoz: So you can't talk to them. Like, for example, I'm not too old, but I'm not too young.
Alejandro Munoz: I consider myself like I'm in that age that I'm like a sandwich in the middle. I learn a different way that I'm teaching my employees, but. Yeah, you got, you kind of have to get the best of everything, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: It's, it is just to get adjusted to the culture, I guess, to understand what these generation is looking for.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. You gotta be adaptable,
Alejandro Munoz: you gotta be fluid and it is continuously changing. Every two, three years, you start seeing, and I'm telling you, because remember I told you this company's a school. Yeah. So I do get young people constantly. Every three years I get to get someone that just got outta high school.
Alejandro Munoz: Right. And it's an, and I learn something every time you learning what you know their interest is and it's different every generation, every. Time that years go by. It's just different. Yeah. And you have to get adjusted to it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's true. I've heard it said before that just because you're a business owner doesn't mean you're a good leader.
Jimmy Lea: What does it mean to you to be a good leader?
Alejandro Munoz: Lead by example?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: I think that's key. The leader, you know, s. The leader is going to run next to you. It's not gonna ask you to run on your own. You know the leader is gonna be there to extend, you know, a hand when you need it, when you need to be lifted. The leader is gonna, it's just gonna show you, it's gonna transfer you information.
Alejandro Munoz: He is gonna want you to grow. The leader wants you to be better than him. I mean, I'm not an expert on motivational, you know, writings and words, but I think that's basically how I would say a leader should behave. It's very important that you are with them. You share time with them, you listen to them, as I mentioned before.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. It's important. You gotta pay attention to your people. You gotta listen to them. I applaud you for working on yourself to have the patience to work with people, to have the patience, to listen to customers, to have the patience to be there with your people. And it is not just about you.
Jimmy Lea: It's about them as well. That's very cool, Alex. That's really good. That's correct. So if you were to have a magic wand and you were to be, to have one wish, you can't wish for more wishes, but you have one wish, what would you change in the automotive aftermarket industry?
Alejandro Munoz: Whoa, that's a tough one.
Alejandro Munoz: I would say. The perspective of how the world see us.
Jimmy Lea: You would change how the world sees the automotive aftermarket? Yes. Yes. Nice. And yeah, I would Go ahead. What would you change it? What would you change? What would you change? What would be the difference between is currently and what they see tomorrow?
Alejandro Munoz: Okay. I'm a, I'm gonna give you this answer in two parts because there's two things that I wanna, two separate things I wanna discuss about what I just said. One is how people perceive it as a career, and the other one is how customers perceive you as a business. And that's why when you ask me what my wish would be, I'll say that one.
Alejandro Munoz: Well, obviously when I, you know, being a biomedical engineer. And with good grades at school. My parents were not too happy when I said I wanted to open a shop.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Alejandro Munoz: Okay. But I think that's normal. No, I don't blame them for it. And not only including my parents, but including most of my family members, you know, I got to love it.
Alejandro Munoz: I didn't know how to explain it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. They're wondering why do you go from being a doctor to being a tech technician, an automotive repair guy? I don't see the line.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. So how do I change it? I think I already did, you know, because I put a lot of effort in showing them this is as a beautiful career as any other, and I'm putting a lot of love on what you do every day.
Alejandro Munoz: And with this, I'm not saying I'm happy every day I wake up, but I know I love what I do. I know it for sure. And that conviction sends a message. When you love something, you're gonna make it happen. Yeah. It's that simple. Yeah. You know, from turning wrenches or as I said, from sweeping a floor all the way to, you know, now just to say, you know, having real estate investments and, you know, other type of investments and still working on cars, you know?
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah. Still doing what I love. Nice. That would that's one thing, you know, that's one of the things I told you and from the customer perspective is because when I wanted to open a shop the square footage in New Jersey is expensive. So you don't get to get a lot of space for cheap, let's say that way.
Alejandro Munoz: Yes. So it's really hard to find a place. Where you can have a clean bathroom, you can have a waiting area such as, you know, dealerships do, you know, you go to a dealership, buy a new car and you have probably 20,000 square footage of, you know, customer area for customers to enjoy. So I say when I open a shop, I do wanna offer that.
Alejandro Munoz: I do want to, I want them to walk in and they don't have to see an alternator on the counter. They don't want to put their fingers on and you know, so what I did to change it, man, we allocated about 2000 square feet of customer area, like just re between reception bathrooms and, you know, the TV room.
Alejandro Munoz: We have you know, working. Like a work workspace where Workspace, yeah. The laptops. Yeah. Yeah. So the coworking area. Sorry about that. Yes. And we do, we did allocate area for our employees to take a break and have, you know, a small kitchen where they can. So everything I dream of, at some point I executed it and I changed that perspective.
Alejandro Munoz: Some people walk in here and they say, man, this smells better than my house. Ah.
Jimmy Lea: So we, congratulations. So it doesn't smell like oil. It doesn't smell like tires. It doesn't smell like rubber. It smells like relax. It smells good. It's cool. I pulled cinnamon by the way. Apple cinnamon. It's apple cinnamon.
Alejandro Munoz: It's apple cinnamon. Yeah. Even when I'm here right now, I can smell it like every ev everything is, you know, putting love in details like every single nail on these walls. Because let me tell you another thing. I demolished about 70% of the. Office area and rebuild it the way I want it. Oh, wow. So I, yeah, I got to grab a hammer and take every wall down and we remodel everything and put new sheet rock and paint and everything is fresh.
Alejandro Munoz: And I, I'm telling you, every single thing you see in this shop, it has love in it.
Jimmy Lea: Congrats.
Alejandro Munoz: Every single. Every single thing. And we think about customers, you know, we have a baby changer on the battery. Like, you know, you never find a baby changer unless, again, unless you go to a dealership. Right. They probably do.
Alejandro Munoz: But it's the pleasure to change the perspective. Yes. Thank you for that question, by the way, because I think that question is. It is. It is probably the best question I've really been asked, to be honest, but this is how I created a change to change the customer and the family and friends perspective of the automotive aftermarket industry.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. We talk in the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. We talk about building a better business, and as a coaching and training company, this is what we are here to help you do, is to build a better business. Because when you build a better business, you have a better life. And not only do you have a better life, your spouse does, and your family does, and your service advisor does, and their significant others have a better life, and your technicians have a better life and their spouses and their children and their families, everybody benefits and has a better life.
Jimmy Lea: And for the institute, we know that result will be in a better industry. Better business, better life, better industry. That's the foundation of our company and what we do. That's our vision in helping shops to take that next level and become what you have done. Alex, that, that's phenomenal.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations brother. That is super awesome. Thank
Alejandro Munoz: you. Thank you so much. I'm actually happy to be able to share, you know, I love sharing.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, right. Yeah, it is. It is. In with the teacher spirit.
Alejandro Munoz: Yeah we do learn something new every day. I love it. I love it. Every day when I turn the key and I close at 6:00 PM I always go home with something new in my head.
Alejandro Munoz: Love it. I always learn every day.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Oh, congratulations. That's so beautiful. That is so beautiful. So, last and final question here, we come into land. If you were to talk to yourself today. This is you years ago, before you were starting, what advice would you give yourself today if you were starting your business today?
Alejandro Munoz: Don't overspend.
Alejandro Munoz: Don't overspend. Oh my God. I can tell you how. I mean, I can spend hours telling you how immature I was financially when I opened. Four tires. Tires, it's, I look back and I say probably would not do that now. You know, save and invest. That's what I will tell myself.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Save and invest and I, I hear you saying things like, make sure you have an education.
Jimmy Lea: Make sure you learn, make sure you have a good team that's helping you to build your business, because you as a technician need the business training. You need business acumen to take it up to that next level.
Alejandro Munoz: Sorry, I lost you for a second.
Jimmy Lea: You, you need the bi. So many of us as technicians, we have the technical training.
Jimmy Lea: We can fix cars, we can repair cars, and you did this for hours and hours every evening. You were learning how to fix cars, fix and repair. And what we lack in the industry is the business acumen, the business knowledge, the business knowhow. Which is where you were talking about in the beginning.
Jimmy Lea: You were very immature in your financial decisions. Where now, today, because of the school of hard knocks, you have learned how to be smarter with your business, how to be smarter with your money. Your advice is, hey, get the training and be smarter with your financial decisions.
Alejandro Munoz: Knowledge is converting into dollars. I'm explain myself what I just said. You learn two ways. You pay someone to teach you or you're gonna make a big mistake that's gonna cost you money, and then you learn
Jimmy Lea: either. It's so true. It's so true, Alex. You either paid somebody to help you get there, or you made a mistake and had to learn on your, I have a $17,000 lesson that I learned, but I want to hear what yours is.
Alejandro Munoz: Okay. Oh. No I got many. I got many. I got many. I've been smart in certain areas, but I've been a fool in others. You know, I'm gonna give you, I know we have to be done in a minute, but let me just tell you this short story. When I opened all four tires, I didn't have a lot of money, so there's something I know now.
Alejandro Munoz: I did smart. I bought. Almost brand new equipment from shops that were closing. I and I don't ask me how I found that. I think probably by just Googling, Googling at some point, you know, I got information and when I opened up four tires, I remember I got a $50,000 rack for like $3,000. And the, yeah.
Alejandro Munoz: I'm talking about the alignment rack, the alignment machine, all that. And it was barely used. Yeah. And I paid three grand for the rack. And I remember I paying like 10,000 for the system itself the digital system, but it was worth $50,000. And I. That for like with the tire changer and the now, nowadays I can probably, you know, something breaks, we're just gonna order a new, but not back in the days when I opened.
Alejandro Munoz: I that's a different story. It might take hours, but I can just tell you I didn't have what it was needed when I opened and it caused me a lot of stress at some point. So, and you can pay to get the knowledge. I told you I was trained, I was part of a coaching company, cost me thousands of dollars, but that also saved me a lot of trouble.
Alejandro Munoz: Not only that, the return on investment was great.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Alejandro Munoz: So I tell everybody whoever's listening, either way, you're gonna have to pay you, choose what way you wanna take, what route you wanna take. All right. So it's a learning experience anyway. 'cause even though you get coach, that coach is not gonna do it for you.
Alejandro Munoz: You need to start making changes on yourself, on your company. You gotta start influencing the people you work with. And then this is another thing when you start making changes, some of the people that you think they're with you, they will leave. Yes.
Jimmy Lea: The people that got you where you are today are probably not the people that are gonna be with you when you get to where you want to go. Because they're with you for today. They might not have the same vision, the and the drive that you do to take it to that next level. So they, yes, they'll be with you today, but they may not be the ones that land with you when you make it to the final destination.
Jimmy Lea: And that's, and,
Alejandro Munoz: and for those who actually have let's say some sort of faith or belief and you kind of have to, you have to learn how to separate the employee that comes late because you know, always something happened. I'm so sorry. And then you wanna give them opportunity, over opportunity and then you gotta understand this is a business.
Alejandro Munoz: Yes. Because if not, then you will go up in a church. It's that simple.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Alejandro Munoz: So it's to have that mentality clear because trust me, you can't run a business with emotions. You have to have a goal. You have to have your standards in place. You have to have a plan that your team knows what route you going to, so the goals can be met as a team.
Jimmy Lea: That's so true, man. We're either going there together or we're not going.
Alejandro Munoz: Definitely.
Jimmy Lea: And it takes a lot of individual input to, to make it to that final destination. So Alex, thank you very much brother. I appreciate talking to you. I appreciate the the banter, the back and forth.
Alejandro Munoz: Listen, I feel honored for the invitation. Thank you so much.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you, brother.

166 - Brad Updegraff on Scaling Dave’s Ultimate Automotive the Smart Way

166 - Brad Updegraff on Scaling Dave’s Ultimate Automotive the Smart Way
October 30, 2025 - 00:38:17
 
Show Summary:
Brad Updegraff’s journey from a small gas-station lube tech to leading a thriving multi-shop operation in Austin, Texas is packed with lessons for shop owners hungry for growth. In this episode, Brad shares how mentorship, smart partnerships, and a forward-thinking approach to technology helped him expand Dave’s Ultimate Automotive from two stores to seven. He dives into customer programs like the VIP discount tiers, lifetime “Premium Protection” warranty, and his signature half-price oil change promotion that doubles as advertising on the road. Brad also discusses the value of adopting digital systems, tracking KPIs, and investing in business coaching to break the $1 million barrier. His focus on training, apprenticeships, and gamified learning builds a culture that keeps his people engaged and his customers loyal. Looking ahead, Brad talks expansion, leadership succession, and his ultimate goal to strengthen trade education and solve the technician shortage for the next generation.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Brad Updegraff, Owner of Dave’s Ultimate Automotive
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:27] - Brad credits founder Dave and early internet marketing as the spark that drew him from a small gas-station shop into a growth path with real upside.[00:04:31] - From hands-on beginnings to master certification, Brad explains why learning the tech’s language made him a better advisor and leader.[00:06:26] - The buyout story: strong years opened the door to acquire and then expand the Dave’s brand, culminating in seven locations.[00:07:28] - Gold-certified NAPA Auto Care status becomes a competitive edge with stronger warranty coverage and brand trust.[00:08:13] - “Premium Protection” lifetime warranty and a clear VIP tier system drive retention by rewarding long-term customers.[00:11:27] - The half-price oil change sticker program turns customers’ cars into billboards and reliably brings new faces through the door.[00:14:32] - Breaking the $1M ceiling starts with tech adoption: DVIs, modern communication, easy payments, and financing.[00:17:48] - Coaching and KPI discipline matter; reading P&Ls and managing to benchmarks changed how the business operates.[00:24:03] - Multi-layered marketing plus visible community giving builds brand equity that reviews alone cannot.[00:26:29] - Apprenticeships with local schools and an internal “professor” tech at each store grow the talent pipeline while shaping culture.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. My name is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is one who is on a fast track for super growth. I'm so excited to have Brad here on this conversation as we are gonna talk to him about Dave's Ultimate Automotive.
Jimmy Lea: Brad, thank you for being here. Good morning.
Brad Updegraff: Thank you. That was quite an intro. I appreciate that, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: You are on a fast path. So Dave's Automotive, Dave's Ultimate, who's Dave?
Brad Updegraff: So Dave is actually the original founder of the company. Certainly somebody I considered a mentor as I learned in this business for sure.
Brad Updegraff: Nice. And how long have you known Dave? So I met Dave in 2009, became an employee of his in 2010.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. And that was some rough times in the world. We were recovering from a real estate boom bust.
Brad Updegraff: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Yikes. Yeah.
Brad Updegraff: Thankfully the Austin market was somewhat insulated from a lot of what we were hearing nationally at that time, just because of the tech boom we were actually experiencing at the time.
Brad Updegraff: But you know, certainly felt that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I think for the most part, the state of Texas. Was protected. State of Texas did a lot of really good things to insulate from that real estate. Boom. I was in mortgages back in the day, so when I hit oh 8, 0 9, 0 10, I was, oh boy. I was done. Wow. I had to figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Gotcha. Wow. Back to the drawing boards, that's tough. Yeah. Yeah. So you came on with Dave in oh nine.
Jimmy Lea: Was it a single location? What did that look like?
Brad Updegraff: He owned a South Austin location and this current one I'm in, which is the North Austin location. At the time I came to work at the North Austin location as a service advisor.
Brad Updegraff: I had actually sought out. Dave just basically through what I had heard about his reputation in the industry. He was one of the first to get into internet advertising for the automotive space, and that was super attractive to me. I was in this little gas station repair shop with a, you know, very clear ceiling for what that looked like, and knew I needed better and knew I had a lot more to give to this industry.
Brad Updegraff: And so, Dave looked like the opportunity that I wanted to be in.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, wind it back a little bit further. You're at a gas station a little bit further. How did you get started in automotive? How'd you start the 10 30 weight?
Brad Updegraff: So, that actually started in high school. I was actually, I took the automotive program the senior year we did the the practicum experience out of the dealership.
Brad Updegraff: And that actually was almost a huge turnoff. I wound up going into that. First week and I guess annoying the lead technician I was under long enough that they stuck me up in their tower at Acura watching training videos the rest of the time. So I got an A, but I don't feel like I learned anything, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. If you don't have that hands-on, you learn theory and theory only takes you so far. You've gotta have that practical hands-on. I, yeah. Imagine
Brad Updegraff: being 18, trying to learn theory too, you know, it was just more of like a
Jimmy Lea: waste. You know? No. And you've already got a DHD and you can't pay attention and you want me to watch a video?
Jimmy Lea: I don't think so. Absolutely. So senior year, you graduate. Then what?
Brad Updegraff: So I actually went to college for a non-automotive program. I was thinking law enforcement at the time. Oh. And was coming back to Austin for you know, basically just part-time work to you know, keep myself, you know, employed and you know, have some money in my pocket.
Brad Updegraff: And the natural fit was an automotive garage. And so I started as a general service lube tech and a state inspector pushing brooms and doing it from the ground level and learning my way through the industry, which, it quickly, I fell in love here in Austin and realized that college was gonna keep me away from her.
Brad Updegraff: And so it that was a career choice to just jump into the automotive space full time. And that really just kind of took off from there. I started trying to learn as a technician but then realized really quickly that my skillset was. Customers and people. And so I transitioned into a service advisor as an opening, came into that little gas station shop and had a great owner that was another great mentor of mine that taught me a lot about what I didn't know in, in customer management shop management and.
Brad Updegraff: I had an amazing time with him, but I still trained as a technician at the time, mainly 'cause I wanted to be able to speak the lingo. And so I actually wound up getting master certified actually after I joined Dave's, but I was on my way by that point.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. So the same gas station, the summer job became the full-time gig.
Jimmy Lea: And now you're up in the front. So how long did you stay there before you sought out Dave's?
Brad Updegraff: So 2010 is actually when I moved over to Dave's. I started making that that. Goal for a shift in 2009.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. Very cool. Very cool. Yeah. And so what does the journey look like with Dave's? And you start there in 10 as a service advisor at one location and.
Jimmy Lea: How does the conversation go that you start talking about, Hey I'd like to buy you out,
Brad Updegraff: Dave. Well, it actually kind of happened organically, but in the initial conversation when I'm recruiting him for my next boss I told him that I had a goal of being, being I love that
Jimmy Lea: you interviewed him just as much as he interviewed you.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, it was definitely that kind of interview for sure. I love it. And, I actually had told him right then that I had a goal of owning a third location. Should he decide to open it, I would like to, you know, have an opportunity to get into that with him. Didn't know how, or, you know, how that was gonna play out.
Brad Updegraff: But what wound up happening is we had such a great year in 2010 and 2011 that, dave had been able to step away from the co the company and really focus on what he I guess he found his new passion, which was coaching you know, and shop development. He was working with a TI at the time and decided to try to take that on as more of a a career path, and decided to put this particular location up for sale while he still owned the south one.
Brad Updegraff: My somebody who wound up becoming my business partner in this situation was basically the main financing side of my opportunity. But I had all the industry experience he needed and so we paired up and took off and we were able to expand that Dave's brand quite quickly. So.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. And did you buy the south location too?
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, that was actually our fourth purchase in the group. So we expanded into a close by city, another close by city in two subsequent years. And then that same year is when we actually bought Dave's fourth location.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Congrats. And now you're up to seven locations?
Brad Updegraff: Seven. We actually took on our seventh location this year actually.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I see your seventh location has like 12 Google
Brad Updegraff: reviews. It's literally started in July. So we're a building from nowhere side of things, so,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yeah, I was seeing that. Every location has 600, 6 50, 700, 7 50 Google reviews, and that's solid. I was like, oh, I wonder which one's new. Oh.
Jimmy Lea: That one right there.
Brad Updegraff: Definitely. Thankfully there's still all five stars, so
Jimmy Lea: we're happy. Yeah. Well, yeah. No, that's good. That's good. Congratulations. Oh one suggestion on your website, you do need the new NAPA Auto Care logo. You're right. Yeah. Good catch. And congrats on being the Gold certified.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you. Thank you. That's not an easy bar to step over. That is that's a high bar for you guys.
Brad Updegraff: It really is. And fortunately it was nice to be the first company to kind of, take that on in the Austin market. Really gave us a, an edge with our competitors to be able to offer a warranty that wasn't available out there.
Brad Updegraff: But also the features and benefits that Napa provided to a partnership like that were just accelerated more. And really just opened the door to even more opportunities for me.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. That's awesome. And I'd love to dig into, you've got three different programs that I was super interested in that I saw on your websites.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. One, one is the the protection, premium Protection plan. Yeah. What is that?
Brad Updegraff: So Ed is essentially a lifetime warranty that we will provide to our best of the best customers after they've earned, you know, kind of that relationship or we've earned that relationship with them. That, that is basically a service that we provide.
Brad Updegraff: And in addition to their normal VIP discount program we for any repair that we do, as long as we're following best practice procedures that, you know, include, you know, things that make sense to do as part of a made. Repair. Then we will honor that warranty for life of the vehicle as long as they are.
Brad Updegraff: Oh,
Jimmy Lea: wow. Yeah. Yeah. So are you then relying a lot on the, parts manufacturers on their warranties and on BG with their warranties and things like that. Are you're relying a lot on those two as well?
Brad Updegraff: Certainly, yeah. So, we do, you know, BG has a program that we've been using for years that is extremely helpful for the customers that are early in their maintenance and that we can start that program early.
Brad Updegraff: It, it does, that company provides an extreme level of. Extended protection just from using their products and been very happy with them. But to go back to that question, the parts vendors are a huge part of that. So we buy quality to make sure that we don't have to turn it in regularly, right. Napa Amen is great with helping with that.
Brad Updegraff: We use a lot of OEM stuff when it's required, but NAPA is by far the best independent repair, you know, parts company that we use.
Jimmy Lea: Napa has a great program and their, the NAPA auto Care program that all the shops that I've ever taken my cars to are Napa because of that nationwide Worry Free.
Jimmy Lea: Anywhere I am, I know I can take it to a Napa auto care center.
Jimmy Lea: And I know they're gonna take care of me.
Brad Updegraff: Fantastic. Yeah. Over 14,000 of 'em across the nation.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. So now also you talked about the VIP program as well. So this is, that's beyond the VIP. So what is the VIP program?
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, so VIP is a, basically a way of building customer retention for us. And we reward our customers with discount programs that are. Essentially anytime they come in, they can, you know, earn those. And we have simple qualifiers. They have to hit lifetime spend amounts that qualify them into the next level.
Brad Updegraff: And that discounts applied from that point on.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. I think I would be one of your top VIP clients. When I had, I, and I just sold my truck. I had a Ford F-150 and I was about every six to eight weeks getting that 5,000 mile. Full synthetic oil service. And I was always like, gosh, guys, we gotta figure out, there's gotta be a great program somewhere that we could put together.
Jimmy Lea: And I think you've nailed it with what you're doing on your VIP. So if anybody's interested and you're like, oh my gosh, I need to know more about what it is that Brad's doing here at Dave's Ultimate Automotive, you need to check it out. His website, he's in Austin, Texas, he's got, it is all laid out on the website, so very
Brad Updegraff: detailed, easy to follow for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Easy to follow. Yeah, very good. It's the KISS system. Keep it simple. Yeah,
Brad Updegraff: I hadn't heard that in a while. That's perfect.
Jimmy Lea: That is perfect. So, one of the benefits that I saw too on your website was the half price oil changes. Yes, sir. Talk to me about that.
Brad Updegraff: That is my baby. So, I thought during COVID there was obviously a an issue where everybody was very cost concerned with, you know, their, how much they're spending.
Brad Updegraff: And we needed to figure out a program that worked for, acknowledging that need and trying to also do what, where our need was, which is gaining customers in that time. So we decided to make our oil change program essentially an advertising piece. So how this works is customers purchase for $10 a small football shaped sticker.
Brad Updegraff: I'll use about that. Big says, take it to Dave's on it, as long as they keep that on their vehicle. We give them half price of the oil change. So essentially they're advertising for us that they choose us as their trusted service facility, and in turn we basically do the oil change at half price.
Brad Updegraff: That simple. Dude, I love it.
Jimmy Lea: I love it.
Brad Updegraff: And so what's really cool is having so many locations now and being that this program's several years in the works now I'm pulling up to traffic lights and I'm seeing, you know, one or two of those cars sometimes at a traffic stop. And it's really makes my day to be able to see that kind of membership taken on.
Brad Updegraff: And it seems like customers are really seeing the value in that.
Jimmy Lea: For sure. I'm scheming here, marketing. I love marketing and I love what you're doing with this sticker. Thank you. And I'm wondering, could we take it a little bit further? Could we take it to be a little bit more with this sticker and what comes to my mind, so riff with me on this.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. What if there was a QR code that at a stoplight or in a parking lot, somebody could scan the QR code, select the location they want to go to, and schedule an appointment.
Brad Updegraff: That's awesome. You know, we actually have a QR code already. We just don't put it on the sticker. So that would actually be a really cool addition.
Jimmy Lea: That might be a good thing.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I like that. Somebody might be like, what's take it today's about? And that would be a good, easy way to look it up.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Yeah. What is, take it, Dave's, what does that mean? I love what you're doing. Now there's also a danger in doing that. So if any shop is hearing this saying, oh, I'm gonna do the same thing.
Jimmy Lea: Whoa. Time out. You better evaluate your business before you start doing this. 'cause there's so many shops that hear this and go, okay, well if Brad's doing it, I'm gonna do it half off your oil service. Just put my sticker on your thing. Okay. But somebody has to pay for that.
Jimmy Lea: It's gotta be part of your business plan. Yep. So what do you think are some of those I'm gonna use the word things, but I hate using the word things. What are some of those? Activities marketing plans, pay plans, business plans that shops set up, they tried to implement, and it's what's holding them back from breaking the million dollar ceiling?
Jimmy Lea: What holds a shop back,
Brad Updegraff: in my opinion, it's really the, kind of the unwillingness to adopt, a lot of the technology that's available to us in our space today. If you think about digital vehicle inspections and how prevalent they are now if you think about really even from the repair order software, the ability to communicate with customers differently than picking up the phone now giving 'em easier pay features, things like that, that are designed to enhance the customer experience.
Brad Updegraff: I think when they're not being done and certainly somebody that recognizes that in a competitor or even a different area of their life, you know, they're gonna be attracted to, to looking for that in their service facility big time.
Jimmy Lea: Who, and I love it. I love what you're saying there.
Jimmy Lea: Because we as an industry all the way back to our roots as blacksmith of the town and the city, we were slow to adopt to technology. I'm glad that you are. What are you using
Brad Updegraff: for your DVI? We have used autos serve one from the beginning.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats. And they integrate in with your point of sale system?
Brad Updegraff: They do. They do.
Jimmy Lea: What are you using for your point of sale?
Brad Updegraff: We use NAPA Track.
Jimmy Lea: Napa Tracks, phenomenal program. And as a multiple shop operator? Napa Trax is able to track all of your locations. Yep.
Brad Updegraff: We actually have they have different enterprise formats you can use. You know, if you'd prefer to have servers in your locations, you can use it in that sense.
Brad Updegraff: They have a cloud option as well. That gives you a lot of on demand availability.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And you also talk about customers being able to pay and pay quickly.
Jimmy Lea: What programs are you utilizing for that pay here? Pay quick Pay now.
Brad Updegraff: So we actually still use a local merchant because I've just basic had a great relationship with them so long, and I'm, I value a lot of personal relationships in my business.
Brad Updegraff: So, we we have that, and then we also have a text to pay feature that we added through that business that I think is, handled through a company called ve, N-U-V-E-I. Okay.
Brad Updegraff: But there's several out there. In fact, one of the Napa sponsored ones is 360 payments. Yeah. NAPA Pay is also coming out, which is gonna be just an extremely good option to consider for certain management systems as well.
Brad Updegraff: Oh,
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Yeah. I have a Synchrony card. I have a, the Napa
Brad Updegraff: Napa Synchrony
Jimmy Lea: card. Yeah.
Brad Updegraff: Oh yeah, that as well. You bet. Financing is certainly one of those things that, especially in the time that we're dealing with in our industry, that you want to have an alternative for having to pay directly in person like that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. For sure. It all helps. So technology holding shops back and I agree. If they can adopt technology, I, I think as an industry, they've been burnt. In the past, and so they're slow to see it, but once they see others doing it, then it does trickle in more people are doing it. So I would say dvs are more prevalent today than they were 15 years ago, or even 10 years ago, or even five years ago.
Jimmy Lea: I think. Absolutely. If you're in a shop today, you're doing a DVI, it just depends on which DVI are you doing. Yeah, definitely. All right. What else besides
Brad Updegraff: technology? Well, I think if you think of the way that most shop owners become, shop owners in general, they're technicians first, you know?
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. At least that's what I've found in just through our networking and a lot of cases, those technicians don't have a business acumen that helps them with knowing how to manage their p and ls properly and how to structure and, you know, budget for things that they wanna be able to do.
Brad Updegraff: I would not have had that information myself if we didn't have a management success style company that was, that we partnered with to learn those things. And certainly it goes a lot past reading a p and l correctly. And that's really where a lot of the value is helping shops understand what.
Brad Updegraff: Key point indicators are important for for their business success. They are able to give you industry standards to use as a benchmark. Things like that, that are really extremely helpful though for somebody that doesn't have that experience to really gain and understand it in its full picture.
Jimmy Lea: Oh I totally agree with you. Who was your coach? Who was your trainer that guided you through that business acumen?
Brad Updegraff: So, we used a TI way back in the day and Jeff Berman was my particular coach at the time.
Jimmy Lea: I love Jeff. Yeah, Jeff is the man. Oh,
Brad Updegraff: he's great. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Are you still with a TI?
Brad Updegraff: No. We actually left the program a few years ago. There was a point where we realized that it wasn't for us anymore. They add a lot of value to a company that doesn't have you know, that foundation to them. But then at. At one point you know, at that point the coaching changes, you know, because you're just not in that same growth plan and need.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. And so the maintenance side of it just seemed a little redundant for us, and we felt like, you know, we could probably take it from here.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. We got this now. Yeah. At the institute we have a program for mergers and acquisitions. We call it the high Performance Group. So to be in that group, you have to be an MSO.
Jimmy Lea: Multiple shop operator. Makes sense. And Michael Smith is in charge of the program. He's the one that pulls these shops together. Have you heard about Straightaway Auto? I have not. Brian Bates. So he got these shops together and they decided, hey, we're gonna do this. We're going to represent, we'll have, there were five owners at the time, they represented about 42 rooftops, and they took that and interviewed different private equity groups.
Jimmy Lea: To find the private equity that would fund it the way they wanted it.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Not the private equity that says, Hey, we're gonna buy you out, and I'm gonna show you how this is done. I've got my MBA, I'm gonna show you how it's done. Yeah. Yeah. No we've seen that before. It doesn't work. You don't know this industry.
Brad Updegraff: Exactly. As soon as you mentioned Brian Bates, that whole story kept came back. It came back. Yeah. It's, it was quite remarkable how they pulled that off.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. He did. And they did, and they are, I think they're approaching 75 locations now, so here in another 25 locations, they'll look at bundling it again and selling it again.
Jimmy Lea: To a next level private equity. Yeah. So at certain levels of private equity, they pay six times ebitda, seven times ebitda. Now you're up to an eight or nine times ebitda and now you're at a 12 to 15 times ebitda. And once you have a package or a bundle, that is significant and this is what's happening in our industry.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I'm glad you got on that. Private equity is coming and bundling it up. You know, it's funny. So. There's a lot of shops you know, store owners that I know that seem to be very concerned about that buyout. Some of 'em are actually just waiting for the phone call themselves. But the ones that are planning on sticking in, it's kind of a mixed bag. You know, you have some that are concerned 'cause they don't understand what that's gonna mean to them and you know, if they're gonna have to align with certain pricing just to stay competitive, blah blah, blah, blah. But I have some that look like me, that look at that as a complete opportunity.
Brad Updegraff: The minute a shop goes corporate and it's felt by the employees and the customers, you lose both. Yeah. So that's an opportunity for us to gain so.
Jimmy Lea: And I love that. I love that you mentioned that. That's what Brian has done and the straightaway has done in their entire company and their culture is to keep the local family run business culture.
Brad Updegraff: That's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: That's important. That's so important. Yeah. The PE that they partnered with said, okay, we bought you and da, but you're still on, you're still with us, and we want you to continue to run your business. If you need any equipment. There's a blank check for that equipment. You just order it.
Jimmy Lea: You do it. Yeah. We know, you know this business and this is what we wanna do. This is our plan, this is our growth plan. Get us to that point. So now as these guys are going out looking at shops, they're evaluating, they don't have to spend their own money on it. They're spending the private equity money to buy the shop, so they're growing exponentially.
Jimmy Lea: It's just so much fun. Wow. It's so fascinating because not only were they able to sell the shop once. They're gonna sell it again and again. And again, and this is becomes generational wealth for these shop owners that they are going to be able to stay in the game. And at some point they may decide, Hey, you know what?
Jimmy Lea: Deuces I'm out, me and the wife, my ties on the beach.
Brad Updegraff: Exactly. Yeah. Isn't that everybody's goal?
Jimmy Lea: And when they do. God bless you. Exactly. Let's flip that. Okay. I'm not gonna leave, but eventually I do pass and in my will, I will it to my children. The children are now partnered with the PE generational wealth.
Jimmy Lea: It keeps growing and growing. Back to the original question, what is holding a shop back from breaking that $1 million per year annual sales.
Jimmy Lea: Adoption of technology. We got adoption of technology.
Brad Updegraff: I think actually, you know, being able to get the customers in the door is an evolving challenge. Okay. Internet advertising is obviously key for new customer acquisition. Everybody's using Google or something connected to Google to learn about a potential shop that they want to use.
Brad Updegraff: So it's important to have your space on there but you need to have a multi-layered approach to that, you know. People care that they're doing business with a company that cares about the community. Yep. So making sure that you have a strong community involvement, whether that's supporting local schools combination of that, maybe doing some community outreach if you have people that are willing to donate some energy outside of work.
Brad Updegraff: Things that, can help build that portfolio of your shop as far as the reputation that it has outside of just five star reviews is really big. And I think that unfortunately a lot of companies don't really invest the time and energy or money into those areas. Because it doesn't always give you an obvious ROI, you know, that's something the brand building that you do with that has a long run effect, you know?
Jimmy Lea: It does. I had an interesting conversation with Jeffrey, last name. Come on. Rudnick Pit Crew Loyalty. They run a pit crew loyalty program. And so you talk about community, his involvement is involving the community businesses. So you have an app for your shop and these businesses become part of your program where if somebody's coming to your shop and they earn points.
Jimmy Lea: They can donate those points to the local animal shelter. And once a year you show up to the animal shelter with a check for a thousand bucks. Wow. And you invite all hundred people, 200 people that made this possible. They're giving back to the community. Now you're supporting the next phase, the next level.
Brad Updegraff: I'm gonna write that down when we get off this call. That's a really good idea.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Jeffrey Rudnick pit Crew loyalty. In fact, I will send you his information and we should put that in the show notes because anybody that wants to check it out should check it out. It's pretty dang cool.
Brad Updegraff: That's a great idea.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's fun. It's fun,
Brad Updegraff: you know, so, kind of adding to that, we yeah. Going back into the school system. So one of the things that we felt was extremely important for the future and development of our industry as a whole was making sure that we had a good way of creating better interest for the young generation that we want into our industry that doesn't have as much of a, a.
Brad Updegraff: I guess an interest in it at this point and being able to provide a way of training through that. So, we partnered with a local school system and we actually serve as their senior apprentice shop that we work with right now. So what's been awesome with that is, you know, we wind up with more students than necessarily we can handle in our shop.
Brad Updegraff: You know, so somewhat overstaffed, you know, taking on a little bit of extra cost doing that. But we get to train people for our industry that might not even necessarily start out with us when they get into the career field, but hopefully they come back 'cause they really enjoy the environment.
Brad Updegraff: You know,
Jimmy Lea: and that's what they'll find out. They don't know what they don't know. They think every shop is run just exactly like yours is because that's the first shop they go to. Yeah. And then down the road they're gonna go to a different shop, a different location, different gas station, different dealership, different shop culture, company culture.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And hopefully they realize and they come back to you because like, Tim Kerian in California, he had a technician that moved away and when he came back he says, I don't care where you put me. I want to be here. He just wants to be there. Yep. I want this is home for me, so figure it out.
Jimmy Lea: So not only is he one of his best technicians, he's also the instructor for the Apprentice. That's awesome. They built him a lean to tent out in the back of the shop because all the bays were full. The bay he didn't have a bay for him.
Brad Updegraff: Okay.
Jimmy Lea: But he built him a bay, put a lift in it, and because it was a temporary structure that he got around a lot of city stuff.
Jimmy Lea: But the dude has to work outside Pasadena, California. Ah, you're fine.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. I could deal with that every day.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, tim, phenomenal job at creating culture. And it sounds like, Brad, it sounds like you are doing the exact same thing with your company culture.
Brad Updegraff: Definitely. It's important to have two different mindsets in our company.
Brad Updegraff: We need to be have a hospitality culture for our customers and a training culture for our team.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Talking about, and I almost felt you say technicians, training for your technicians, do you also train the whole team advisors, managers, leadership? Yeah, definitely. Nice. Nice. Where do you go? What do you do?
Jimmy Lea: Is it all in-house or,
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, it's actually, it's things we've learned through a TI, you know, through the years. It's a bit of a playbook and we've certainly have our own way of doing business that we certainly, follow a protocol and process for, I guess is a good way to put it. But we're accountable.
Brad Updegraff: You know, we review their phone calls. You know, we help them in their areas that they need to improve. If there's particular service development areas that they can you know, learn more in a particular class, we would pay for that, but another extra. Just daily training thing is, we're actually part of today's class.
Brad Updegraff: I don't know if you've heard much about that program, but it's in a fantastic way to keep consistent training in your program.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Yeah. Are you in the gamification? Do your seven locations compete against each other? Do you have a top tech?
Brad Updegraff: They do, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: That's a fun name. Are you meeting on it too?
Brad Updegraff: Oh yeah. In fact, we have an admin team that competes against the shops.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah. That
Jimmy Lea: is so cool. So they, we, we met with today's class here a minute ago. Probably sometime during the summer and the executive team is. Answering all those questions.
Jimmy Lea: So, Cecil, Kent, and Wayne, they're all competing amongst the three or four of them there in the office headquarters in Ogden. Yeah. And it's interesting to see that Wayne is answering the questions right? And he has no, well, okay. No, he has a pretty dang good garage and he has like five or six BMWs that he works on.
Jimmy Lea: But he's not a. Master technician.
Brad Updegraff: Sure. Kinda more specialized in that area then.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Well that's,
Brad Updegraff: I mean, that's awesome. I honestly thought I would answer more questions. Right. I get, oh, it's a good mix of technician and service questions that are peppered into my particular profile.
Brad Updegraff: And. I'll tell you if I'm trying to just, you know, get through it for the day and fast track my answers I miss a lot, you know? Yeah. It definitely takes some thinking. But I really I can't say enough about that program and what it means. You know? The other great thing about it, you know, for you talk about culture.
Brad Updegraff: So monthly we actually do prize raffles. So as they're answering questions, they're building points in the yes. In their game, and they're able to use those raffles or those particular points for either raffles or auctions that we host. And so, you know, we're using our vendors to give away products.
Brad Updegraff: We have certain things that we give away just in the store as well. Like PTO day or something like that, just to be kind of cool and give 'em, you know, something. Or, you know, one of the fun ones we get to do with the few of 'em, my employees is a day of golf with me. You know, just dude. Yeah. You know, just to kind of keep it different, you know,
Jimmy Lea: do a date night basket.
Brad Updegraff: Ooh.
Jimmy Lea: Dinner, gift cards, movie tickets. You know, here's a fancy box of chocolates. Date in a basket or date night in a basket. That's a great idea. Oh yeah, that, that'd be rad. I. Gotta love that. Absolutely. Cool. So Dave, what? Dave? Brad,
Brad Updegraff: I get that daily, don't worry. I'm sure you do. Yeah, I'm calling for Dave.
Brad Updegraff: Good being Brad. When the name on the building's, Dave, by the way. Yeah. There's a nice little ninja effect to that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, there is. And you know what, I've been to so many Dave's automotives across the country and it's never owned by a Dave. That's funny. It's owned by somebody else. Yeah. So, what does the future look like for you, Brad?
Jimmy Lea: You're currently at seven locations. Now what does success look like?
Brad Updegraff: So, we certainly haven't stopped our growth plans. But we now have the ability to be quite strategic with our next footprint steps. You know, now that we have a really good coverage of the Austin and kind of surrounding area map, we intend to go north.
Brad Updegraff: And there's areas, you know, between us and Waco that kind of makes sense to expand into. There's areas out east of us that are becoming more populous centers since Samsung's moving in and places like that. So, Bastrop, Elgin, you know, some little neighboring towns that, you know, seem like they would be good potential fits for our next move.
Brad Updegraff: But I'm also very specific about. What type of shop we're gonna get into. Sure. Size wise, you know, it needs to be 10 bays or more. 10. 10. Yes. That's
Jimmy Lea: a big shop, bro. Okay. It's 10 bays. Yeah, because that fits your footprint, that's your business model. You know how to effectively. Produce a 10 base shop.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, I would even say eight is a potential. Since state inspections have kind of gone away in this last year from the state of Texas it's less base space needed for that. So I think I could do the same type of business model in an eight based shop. Okay. And you know, certainly we have one in the company right now that's quite successful from a profitability standpoint.
Brad Updegraff: So there's definitely something to the manpower involved with an eight bay, eight bay versus 10 base.
Jimmy Lea: So when you've got an eight bay or a 10 bay shop, how many technicians do you have operating
Brad Updegraff: out of there? So, I'll use the example I'm in for a 10 bay shop. I try to structure four. Diagnostic skill level technicians and three general service technicians at some varying skill level that can do, you know, we call 'em GS pluses when they're kind of advancing to that level where they could become flag technicians. But we you know, also kind of can do ground level startups as well.
Brad Updegraff: You know, somebody that's just trying to learn and become an apprentice in the industry has a space in our environment to try to work underneath the team that, you know, can help them grow and accelerate as well. So we do have a range of that technician. General service technician structure that we try to keep in every shop.
Jimmy Lea: So you've got the general service, these are your C minus technicians. And an apprentice that's a C minus. They're coming up in the industry. And these four, are they the instructors, are they the oversight? Are they the quality control for your general service technicians?
Jimmy Lea: Is that what you do?
Brad Updegraff: We actually try to keep one particular technician equipped in each shop with that role. Okay. Instead of utilizing all of them.
Jimmy Lea: So one, one tech in each shop is the professor. Yes. Okay. Very cool. Oh, I love that. So if there's anybody in the Austin area or are you're, it sounds like you're also expanding out from that going up to Waco and out towards what's east?
Brad Updegraff: East would be heading towards Houston. You know, there's Houston, a little neighboring cities in the,
Jimmy Lea: anybody with a six bay or a 10 bay shop?
Brad Updegraff: Holler. Give Brad a
Jimmy Lea: call.
Brad Updegraff: Definitely give him
Jimmy Lea: a Hollerer.
Brad Updegraff: Yeah, brad@davesua.com. That's direct email, so
Jimmy Lea: Oh, perfect. That'd be good.
Brad Updegraff: So that's the future. At what point do you say, okay, we're good.
Brad Updegraff: So I actually put a date on that for myself when I turned 55. So I've got nine years left now.
Jimmy Lea: Nine years to 55. Yeah, dude. Congrats. Thank you. So at 55 that becomes the opportunity to cash out. Do you still have a business partner or is it all you? It's all me now. Oh, congrats bro. Thank you. Thank you.
Jimmy Lea: So by 55, how many shops you want? 55 shops,
Brad Updegraff: you know, I don't know that answer to be honest. Okay. It's more of a, more about, I don't wanna be putting words
Jimmy Lea: in your mouth, I don't want you to knee jerk reaction this, but it's something to think about. When you do hit 55, what's the goal?
Jimmy Lea: If it's just 55, you know you're gonna get there.
Brad Updegraff: Sure. I think we've already grown to the size of a company where it's gonna take a strategic buyer for for a purchase for us.
Brad Updegraff: You know, and so there's already that kind of, that mindset of what that looks like down the road.
Brad Updegraff: I
Jimmy Lea: gotta plan for you, brother. We need to talk. Okay, cool. Alright, congratulations. Well, if you were to have a magic wand and you had one wish, you can't wish for more wishes. What would you change in the industry?
Brad Updegraff: Just one wish. One wish? Yep.
Brad Updegraff: Ooh. I think the biggest one for me is. That there isn't a pre, that there was already a program built centered around the trade industry better than it is today that is focused more on automotive than it is. If you see, you know, electrical companies, plumbing trades those have had very thorough programs for the longest time.
Brad Updegraff: And it seems like the automotive space is just slow to catch up to that. And I think it's created the problem we have of a technician shortage right now. So if I could wave my widget magic wand, I would do away with the technician shortage and have a better building program.
Jimmy Lea: I love it better education for those coming into the industry.
Jimmy Lea: Better education for those that want to become part of the program. And I think what you've also dialed that in on your shops, you know that you've got a professor that's gonna guide the GS down the path. So you've got that outlined. We need that on a larger scale. Right. Brad. I love it. I love it.
Jimmy Lea: Brother, thank you very much. I appreciate your time. Appreciate you showing up for us. I've enjoyed it, Jimmy. Thanks for having me. Alright. Thank you brother. All right. We'll talk soon.

165 - Cruise Control to Cash Flow: The Mobile Auto Repair Journey with Clinton Coffman

165 - Cruise Control to Cash Flow: The Mobile Auto Repair Journey with Clinton Coffman
October 30, 2025 - 00:36:10
 
Show Summary:
Starting a mobile shop in December took grit, but Clinton Coffman shows how discipline on costs and smart marketing can outpace top-line growth. He walks through lessons from dealerships to Firestone to launching Cruise Control Convenient Car Care. Clinton breaks down why Local Services Ads beat DIY PPC for his model, why he prices a firm onsite minimum, and how he schedules 1–3 cars per day to protect quality. We dig into parts sourcing without delivery, the limits of driveway repairs, and the debate between staying mobile or moving to a small brick and mortar. Clinton shares a possible pivot toward a “basic services” lane that’s easier to staff and scale. The episode closes on family, legacy, and building a business his kids could choose to join.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Clinton Coffman, Owner of Cruise Control Convenient Car Care
 
Show Highlights:
[00:03:15] - Clinton’s path from WyoTech to dealerships and Firestone, and the spark that pushed him toward mobile repair.[00:06:11] - Launching in December on purpose: “If I can survive the slowest month, I can thrive in the good ones.”[00:07:42] - First two weeks hit about $7K; 2024 averages to ~$180K while learning what expenses to cut.[00:09:29] - Lower sales, higher take-home: $16.5K less sold but $8.5K more net by trimming subscriptions and spend.[00:10:24] - Marketing that works: monthly CRM text blasts and Google Local Services Ads with pay-per-lead economics.[00:12:16] - ROAS reality: some weeks are heavy diagnostics with low conversion; overall GP-based returns trend near 5:1.[00:16:41] - The mobile squeeze: scheduling is hard when each driveway job ties you up until it’s done.[00:19:56] - Parts without delivery: juggling WORLDPAC, Parts Authority, and O’Reilly means more drive time and will-calls.[00:23:39] - The non-negotiable trip minimum: why $140 to show up protects time and mirrors trades like HVAC and plumbing.[00:24:47] - What’s next: weighing a small shop, or pivoting mobile to a high-throughput lane of brakes, oil, filters, and wipers.[00:33:25] - Success defined: provide for family, build something durable his kids can choose to join.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, my name is Jimmy Lea, and this is the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. You are listening to the Leading Edge podcast, my friend. It is so good to be with you today. So glad you're able to join and listen to this conversation that Clint and I are gonna have about his mobile business.
Jimmy Lea: Clint Coffman is the owner of Cruise Control. Cruise control. Hold on, I'll get it. Cruise Control Convenient Car Care out of Tacoma, Washington, Clinton, thank you for being here brother. How are you? Clinton Coffman: I'm doing great. How are you?
Jimmy Lea: You know, that was a mouthful. I tried five times before I got it, but the, there it is. There's, that is a mouthful. And you've got all the C's in the name Clinton Coffman, Cruise Control Convenient Car Care, all the C's. Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. It, hindsight is 2020. Right. But I'm kind of stuck with the name now 'cause that's what people know.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The alliteration in your family must be epic.
Clinton Coffman: Yes. We have four generations of firstborn sons with the letters C in their first name.
Jimmy Lea: So are you the third or the fourth?
Clinton Coffman: I'm the third.
Jimmy Lea: I am also the third. We are James Lee. James Arthur James. Bruce, James Christian. My son is James, Derek, A, B, c, D. That's crazy. Did you guys do different middle names or is it exactly the same for James? So it's,
Clinton Coffman: it's different first names, but they all start with the letter C. So it was Charles was my grandfather.
Clinton Coffman: My dad's Chris. I'm Clinton, my son is Colin. Of course it is. Yeah. So you didn't have any option but to go with another C.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. No, and my son, his name was picked back in college when I was in college. When I was in high school. I knew he was gonna be a James D. James d something. Yeah. So are all of your children starting with the letter C?
Clinton Coffman: No, it's just the firstborn son. Just
Jimmy Lea: the firstborn.
Clinton Coffman: Okay.
Jimmy Lea: Firstborn son. First born son. Oh, is your, do you have an older, oldest daughter? I've got two
Clinton Coffman: daughters who are older.
Jimmy Lea: Me too. Did you see this here? These are my, I did see that. These are my, that's my oldest daughter and second oldest, and that's my son.
Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. Yes. So here's my connection to Tacoma, Washington, and I have a picture. This is an awesome picture. I think this embodies Tacoma, Washington ginormous. Imagine with me a ginormous. Pickup truck. Big, huge mud wheels. It's an older Chevy truck, maybe it's a Ford truck. And on the back tailgate is a bumper sticker that says I identify as a Prius
Clinton Coffman: that could be construed as Tacoma.
Jimmy Lea: I think what he was wanting was those those parking spaces that are right up front, say for the compact cars.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so funny. Hey, so Clinton, how in, how did you get into the crazy automotive aftermarket world?
Clinton Coffman: So, I've been in auto tech my entire adult life. Okay. 20 years old. I went out to Wyoming Technical Institute.
Clinton Coffman: Spent a year out there. Worked in dealerships for a long period of time in Wyoming. No I moved back here once I was so you moved back to Washington outta school? Yeah. Outta school in the Tacoma area, you know, eventually remember cash for clunkers. Oh yeah, cash for
Jimmy Lea: Clunkers. That just about killed us.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And I was like in between Lube tech and like a B Tech at the time.
Jimmy Lea: Okay, so you were a solid C plus is what I'm hearing. Yeah,
Clinton Coffman: yeah. And you kind of get pigeonholed.
Jimmy Lea: You
Clinton Coffman: do. You know, I was really good at. Doing inspections, right? So I could get on the Lu Rack and I could sell stuff. Oh. So they moved me back to the Lu Rack 'cause I was making them more money than the Lu Tech and they laid them off.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Then after a year and all the jobs are going through a tech not learning anything. No, of course not. So eventually I ended up leaving the Honda dealership I was at because I was like, dude. How am I getting any better at what I want to do? Yeah. This is a further in your career. I understand your need for what I need to do's do for you's, but like you wouldn't even send me back to school.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: So, I ended up going to a used car dealership, one of the biggest in the state. It was actually right next door. So I took my little tool cart and I literally pushed it up the hill to the next dealership. That's hilarious. That's awesome. And I spent about four years there. Then ended up going to Firestone.
Clinton Coffman: Oh, nice. Okay. So I spent five, six years of Firestone and then eventually I heard about this new company that was doing mobile repair. So I was like, oh, that's interesting. I've always kind of wanted to be my own boss. I mean, I wrote my first business plan when I was about 11 years old. So, nice. Yeah. I never actually pulled the trigger.
Clinton Coffman: 'cause you know, it's scary. Well, you're 11. Well yeah, but even at, I had kids young, so like going out on my own. The risk versus reward. Yeah. Kinda became like a fear factor. Sure. I spent about another four years there, kind of learned how mobile should and shouldn't work. Okay. And then I was like, you know what, like you only live once Yolo.
Clinton Coffman: If I've been wanting to do something like this my whole life and haven't figured out what it is, but I know how to fix cars, why not just do it? So, and. That was about two years ago now, and it's been a journey to say the least.
Jimmy Lea: So, so you struck out on your own, towards the end of COVID shutting down, people are returning to normal.
Jimmy Lea: They're still a little scared, but they're returning to normal and you strike out with a mobile business?
Jimmy Lea: Wow.
Clinton Coffman: Wow. In December. The slowest time of year. I figured if I could make it, then I could make it in the good months.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, right. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I saw the the, your kids' announcement on Facebook got a big announcement.
Jimmy Lea: We're so excited. Oh, bless your kids. That was fun. That's awesome. They did that for you. So you struck out in December. Is this December of 23?
Clinton Coffman: 2023, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Oh my gosh, man. Okay, so you strike out on your own. What is it you close your first month, your second month? What does that look like for you as a solopreneur?
Jimmy Lea: So, first month
Clinton Coffman: I ended up getting really lucky. Okay. The first phone call I got, I ended up selling $2,500 worth of work.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Love that. So,
Clinton Coffman: It was a short month because I started like the week before Christmas, so I only had like two weeks that month. I ended up doing about seven K,
Jimmy Lea: seven K in two months.
Jimmy Lea: Righteous. Yeah. That's pretty dang good, man. Congrats.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. And then January, do you remember what January looked like? January 24? I don't remember
Clinton Coffman: exactly off the top of my head.
Jimmy Lea: Ish. Ish. You can have a big ish on that. It was probably
Clinton Coffman: like eight to nine. Okay. Okay. Probably eight to nine. And it grew to closer to about 1516 KA month in total sales.
Clinton Coffman: Nice. Over the, over 2024. That's about what I averaged at about 180 k in sales.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats.
Clinton Coffman: Solid. Then once I looked at my p and ls at the end of the year and I was like, man, I've got a lot of expenses. I want the nice things, right? So I was paying for the marketing companies. I was paying for top of the line, all the bells and whistles, CRMs, and.
Clinton Coffman: I was like, man there's gotta be a different way. There's a lot I'm leaving out before it gets to my wallet. Yeah. Yeah. So I started, what can I cut? What can I cut? I have actually done, what was it? I got it here.
Clinton Coffman: I've got a 39% increase this year already in net, in sales, net revenue. Oh. In net revenue and net revenue 2%. De I've actually, where is it? Sorry, I got my notes here.
Jimmy Lea: No, you're good. So you, I have sold Uhhuh
Clinton Coffman: $16,500 less in sales, but I have made $8,500 more into my pocket.
Jimmy Lea: Dude, congratulations.
Jimmy Lea: Controlling those expenses. That's how to do it.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You know, your first year you just, I was like, I'm just gonna throw everything at the wall, see what sticks.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The mistake of many a business that does it, and most of them aren't where you are, most of them fail. Most of them have to close the door.
Jimmy Lea: 'cause they tried to stick too much and nothing stuck. So Yeah. They're out. Yeah. It's, so if you can reduce your expenses by $500 a month, five times 12, six grand a year, that goes right to the bottom line. That goes to your net profit. Absolutely. Oh, congratulations. So, so for marketing, what are you doing now as a mobile tech?
Clinton Coffman: So right now I've got a CRM, so I send a blast text message out once a month. Nice.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Clinton Coffman: Sometimes twice a month. It depends on how busy I am. Sure. And I do local service ads on Google
Jimmy Lea: local service ads. Okay.
Clinton Coffman: And it, local service ads has been a godsend for me. Good. Congrats. Because you, you pay per qualified lead, not per click.
Clinton Coffman: No. You know, because I spent a lot of time in the evenings learning Google ads. Yes. You know, it's like how do I do this so I don't have to pay somebody a thousand, $1,400 a month Yep. On top of my ad spend. Correct. Right. So, I mean, I even took a month long class. Wow. I paid for and
Jimmy Lea: to study Google ads, looking at local
Clinton Coffman: service ads, and there's nobody else secret.
Clinton Coffman: Nobody else in my area,
Jimmy Lea: knock on wood.
Clinton Coffman: Yep. Runs local service ads for auto repair.
Jimmy Lea: So what's and congrats on figuring that out and doing it. Most Google ads, you might be anywhere from a dollar to $5. To $8 per click and a a local service ad. What are you spending per click? Per, sorry.
Jimmy Lea: Per qualified lead.
Clinton Coffman: Per qualified lead. It's about, that's hard to say. 'cause they don't give you as much information. Yeah. Right. So I spend anywhere between 250 and $400 a week, depending on how I'm already doing. Yep. My return on ad spend is about three to one. Congrats. Nice. So, some months it's better.
Clinton Coffman: Yes. Some months it's worse, you know? Yep. Sometimes you go out there four or five times a week to do a diag for a no start, and it's like, oh, you have a blown head gasket. Oh, you have $9,000 worth of work to do on your 2006 Corolla. And they're like, I can't spend that kind of money on it. And so.
Clinton Coffman: That's where it gets real tricky with mobile repair.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because you're,
Clinton Coffman: you're limited on what you can do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. For sure. For sure. Alright, so, a three to one is good, however, your goal needs to be six to one. Yes. Okay. I totally agree. So you already know that. Totally
Clinton Coffman: agree with that. Yeah. At five.
Jimmy Lea: Five to one, you're covering your expenses, your labor, your parts, your da. If you factor it all in at six to one, now you're on the gravy side, so yeah. Yeah. Six to one. Love it. I love it that you already know that.
Clinton Coffman: Is that. Total sales are gross profit.
Jimmy Lea: Just on total. Ooh. Are you doing gross profit three to one?
Clinton Coffman: I base everything off of gross profit.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. So, okay, so if you were to convert that for me, if you would, if you don't mind. So if total sales to clicks,
Clinton Coffman: let's see, I, so I've got a 60 to 65% parts margin. So I don't know the math. That's beautiful to, to convert that. Nope, you're doing good.
Clinton Coffman: Probably closer to five to one.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I think you are. If you are let's do public math. Always dangerous. Yeah. So on a monthly, if you're doing 10 to 15,000, let's call it 15, 16, can I call it 16? So it's four grand a week? Yeah. Yeah. You could call it that. Four. Four grand a week and a $400 local ad spend.
Jimmy Lea: That's a 10 to one. Yeah. Yeah. Solid. And if you get it down into the $200 ad spend and you're at four grand, that's a lot more. Yeah. I'm not doing that public math. Not right now, dude. Congrats bro. So, and I applaud you for doing it off the gross profit because that gross, that's the
Clinton Coffman: number that really matters.
Clinton Coffman: Parts are expensive.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and gross profit, yes. But to your point before, even more important than gross profit is net profit. Yes. How much is in your pocket? At the end of the day, you have had to control your expenses. So important. You control your expenses. Now you control what comes into your pocket.
Jimmy Lea: Most businesses, most sales companies, will applaud those who sell the most. When in actuality they really should turn around and say, okay, but how much did you keep? Exactly. How much did you keep? Exactly. And that interestingly at the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, we're a coaching training company.
Jimmy Lea: You're aware of that? We have an awards ceremony, an awards program. We have the $100,000 net profit club. The 200,000 net profit, the 300,000 net profit, 400, 500, 700, I think there's a seven 50. And we have one shop that's doing a million dollars net profit.
Clinton Coffman: Shut up. That's amazing. That's gotta be a big shop.
Jimmy Lea: He has 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 bays in one building and four bays in another building. Yeah. He's up in Denver, Colorado. That makes, and yeah, he does. He does. Well. He is paying attention to the numbers. And that's what you did. Yeah. You're paying attention to the numbers. What can I cut? What is superfluous here?
Jimmy Lea: That we can vote it off the island and really do more with less. And that's what you've done. 16,000 less in sales. Okay. Big deal. We are eight grand up. We're doing more with less. So I applaud you Clinton. That's freaking awesome, dude. Congrats. So where are you at today? Here you are, two years down the road.
Jimmy Lea: Where are you at today? So
Clinton Coffman: my next goal is mobile is extremely hard to schedule. Whoa. Yeah. What if your appointments are like, say, okay, bring it in and then if it takes three hours to diagnose it. You've got another bay you can pull in and do the oil change or the brake job or whatever. I am in your driveway.
Clinton Coffman: You are my sole priority until I leave. Right? Whoa. Yeah. So, so it makes scheduling sometimes very difficult and you gotta be really picky about what you're going to go out and do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: You know what I mean? So,
Jimmy Lea: so do you, do those. No start diags late in the afternoon because you know it's gonna be heavy duty and you're gonna have to schedule it for later.
Clinton Coffman: So here's, I try to schedule as many jobs early in the week, first thing in the morning.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Okay.
Clinton Coffman: That way I can potentially have time if they wanna do it, go pick up parts or you grill them on the phone and you try to guess like, this sounds most likely, like you're gonna need a starter. So I'm gonna pick up a starter beforehand.
Clinton Coffman: Hopefully that's what it is. You're not always right, you know? 'cause customers, they say things
Jimmy Lea: yeah. They're not a technician. Don't, they're not, don't know. They don't know.
Clinton Coffman: They don't know. So what's their heart? You gotta try to guess a little bit. So there's a lot of picking up parts and then returning them.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And that all takes time, bro. Yeah. And then I'll schedule the next is a three o'clock, which I try to schedule like, Hey, we can get the diag done, most likely we're gonna have to come back. Yeah. If I get really busy and it seems right, I'll schedule a noon. So two to three cars, one to three cars a day.
Clinton Coffman: Oh, wow. One to three cars a day. Yeah. And that's the most I can do, you know, some weeks it's five cars.
Jimmy Lea: How challenging is it for you to get parts?
Clinton Coffman: So it's just, it's time consuming.
Jimmy Lea: Time consuming. Are you loyal to a flag? Are you loyal to. A particular parts store or do you just go for the most convenient?
Clinton Coffman: So it, it depends. Okay. I use three vendors mainly. I'll use worldpac, O'Reilly's, and Parts Authority. How do you wor use worldpac?
Jimmy Lea: I have an account. Well, I parts, I apologize. I understand that. And they deliver. So what are they delivering it to your house? Nobody
Clinton Coffman: delivers. I have to go pick it up because I'm,
Jimmy Lea: because you're mobile.
Jimmy Lea: Because I'm mobile. I thought Worldpac like they don't have stores that's a will call
Clinton Coffman: at
Jimmy Lea: their warehouse. At the DC Yeah, at the warehouse. Okay.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. So I, so you must be close to the DC and pick them up. I don't use Worldpac that often because they're kind of out of the way. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. You
Clinton Coffman: know but if I'm.
Clinton Coffman: Close to them and they've got, they make good parts.
Jimmy Lea: They do. You know what I
Clinton Coffman: mean?
Jimmy Lea: They do. Or
Clinton Coffman: if it's a European car, then I'm like, I would way rather just get the WORLDPAC stuff 'cause I know it's better.
Jimmy Lea: Yep yep.
Clinton Coffman: Then I use
Jimmy Lea: them. And who are your other two? 'cause as soon as you said Worldpac, I was like,
Jimmy Lea: wait a second.
Jimmy Lea: How in the world is he doing that? Are they. Delivering it to somebody's physical home address. Oh, wouldn't that be nice
Clinton Coffman: if I could get them just to bring it to their house, that'd be helpful. Oh, that would be so much better. But no, they're not gonna do that. That's kind of unfeasible. 'cause then I'd have to be like, here's the address.
Clinton Coffman: And then sometimes it's gonna take an hour and a half for them to get the part there anyways, and I'm just standing there.
Jimmy Lea: Well that, that somebody's driving to take off and go do another car and come back after the park gets there. But they don't do that anyways.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So, so the other two flags, O'Reilly's
Clinton Coffman: and Parts Authority.
Clinton Coffman: Parts Authority, okay.
Jimmy Lea: And you must have a pretty good saturation in your area of those stores so that you're able to be fairly loyal to them.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Parts Authority is just like worldpac. Oh really? They just, it's, you
Jimmy Lea: don't have physical stores.
Clinton Coffman: No they're a warehouse dude. I, I-S-I-N-C and Parts Authority.
Clinton Coffman: It's the same company, but they have different names in different places.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. I thought that we I thought that Parts Authority was also brick and mortar, but I, yeah, they might,
Clinton Coffman: they might be in other areas, but we've got in other areas warehouses, three warehouses here from Parts Authority. Oh, wow.
Clinton Coffman: Pretty good. So there's one way up north. There's one in Fife, which isn't too far away, and there's one just right down the street from my house.
Jimmy Lea: Got it. Nice. Besides parts, what else is challenging for you as a mobile tech versus what you might think brick and mortar has?
Clinton Coffman: Again, it's scheduling.
Clinton Coffman: Scheduling, yes. Scheduling is the hardest thing, and then it's sometimes I just can't do the job. Go out there. It's like you need a transmission in your Chevy pickup truck. I am not pulling your transmission out in your driveway. I'm just not gonna do it all by myself. Could I probably do it? Sure. But then how much longer than book time am I gonna spend on it?
Clinton Coffman: Twice. What if I drop the thing on my face
Jimmy Lea: and you're crawling around on the ground? Yeah. The Chevy truck's up on jacks, but that only gives you a foot and a half. Exactly. That transmission barely fits under the Oh, geez. Yeah. No, what
Clinton Coffman: a nightmare. Yeah. So it's that. And then the other thing is, for some reason, which I don't fully understand, the only people, this is gonna sound harsh, but the people who know who mobile mechanics are a thing, don't have a lot of money.
Clinton Coffman: Oh yeah. Then every once in a while you'll find somebody, like, it's always easier to make money selling to rich people. Let's just be
Jimmy Lea: honest. Yeah. They got the money, they got the funds, they can pay for it. Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: And so there's a lot of times I'll go out there and it's a $700 repair, which is not crazy expensive in the automotive world.
Jimmy Lea: No that's a pretty good average.
Clinton Coffman: And then I've got financing options with my tech metrics so they can't get approved.
Jimmy Lea: Oh geez.
Clinton Coffman: So it's like, okay,
Jimmy Lea: well pull the scratch together when you got it. I guess. I guess there's, lemme know,
Clinton Coffman: there's, and another thing that's difficult is I have to charge a minimum to come out.
Clinton Coffman: I can't do free break inspections. No, I can't go do a free battery check. No. So sometimes it would be great to do more breaks. Right. But it throws people off when I say, yeah, I can come out to your house, but it's $140 minimum, whether you buy the brakes or not, when they could take it to Midas or wherever and they'll look at 'em for free because it's not costing them any time.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I mean, it is.
Clinton Coffman: It is. But the potential upside is way higher than me. Driving 20 minutes to your house, putting your car on Jack's, taking the wheels off.
Jimmy Lea: But it's also the exact same thing that a plumber charges. That electrician charges. Yeah. The HVAC charges. If you want the convenience of me coming to your home, it's 140 bucks for me to show up to your front door.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Whether I do anything or not. And of course you're gonna do whatever it is they've hired you to come out there and do anyways. Oh, that's good. That's awesome. So what's what is the future? What does the future look like for you Clinton?
Clinton Coffman: So I'm going back and forth. Do I want a brick and mortar location, because that's fair.
Clinton Coffman: I don't wanna lay on the pavement forever.
Jimmy Lea: Amen. Yeah. There is a beauty. I don't even wanna turn
Clinton Coffman: wrenches forever. I would, I'm getting to a point in my life where I would rather have somebody else go do the work and I can operate the business instead of owning a job. Amen. With mobile it's.
Clinton Coffman: Finding talent. It's hard. That's willing to do it. Yeah. You know, and they're actually, I can trust them to not leave a wheel loose or misdiagnose or anything because there's no supervision.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. There's no key seat other than pictures on a cell phone.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. It's that, or I'm going to, I'm looking into.
Clinton Coffman: My top job categories.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,
Clinton Coffman: like, so I make the most money on brakes, engine repairs. That's like check engine lights, spark plug, stuff like that. And cooling systems. Those are my three most profitable besides diagnostics, because I charge a diagnostic fee for everything. So it's obviously through the roof.
Clinton Coffman: So. I'm starting to question whether I need to change the model from a diag heavy to a more of like a tire shop in your driveway without doing tires. Ooh, brake oil changes, air filters,
Jimmy Lea: which your
Clinton Coffman: wipers, the basic stuff that you can train somebody to do quickly and efficiently, right? Because, yeah, finding somebody would.
Clinton Coffman: My 20 years of experience, who's willing to do what I'm willing to do to work for myself as opposed to just getting a paycheck.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: I know that's gonna be hard to impossible.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: It's already hard enough to find tax.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and Clinton I do believe you will find there are many opportunities out there right now.
Jimmy Lea: As you're driving around. Pay attention to the shops and every once in a while, stop in, talk to the owner. See where they're at. You may find a shop with a lady or a gentleman that's 65 plus years old, and they're looking to retire and get out and be done. And you just keep courting 'em. Keep courting 'em.
Jimmy Lea: Keep courting 'em, keep talking to 'em. And eventually they're just gonna say, all right, Clinton, here's the keys. It's yours.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You know, I almost had a three bay shop last year. Ooh. That was getting ready to retire. It was about 30 minutes away out in the peninsula. It was a nice, affluent neighborhood.
Clinton Coffman: Beautiful. But as soon as we got his PS P and Ls, I was working with Kevin at the institute. Yep. He was my coach for the first year. Kevin Clark. We looked through those p and Ls and what he wanted and what he was making. Were not adding up. We were about 40 to 60% off on what it was worth and what he wanted.
Clinton Coffman: It's just like, man this place has. Amazing potential, but there is, there's no way I can give you what you're demanding.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I can't buy the blue sky you've you're offering right now.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. I can't buy, you can't buy a shop based on its potential. Yeah. You gotta buy on what it's actually making at that time.
Jimmy Lea: Are you still going around? Do you still stop by? Do you still say hello?
Clinton Coffman: So I'm not necessarily going from shop to shop and talking to people, but I'm keeping my eye out. I'm looking for empty buildings. I'm on prey and all those other commercial real estate sites, looking for a building. You know, there's a few around, but man, they want.
Clinton Coffman: I found a four bay shop right down the street. It's completely empty.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Clinton Coffman: I want 10 grand a month. Yeah. And I'm like, that's close to my total sales every month. I can't afford that. You know what mean not? Not right now. You can't this with a lot of money to begin with. That's why I started with mobile.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: You
Clinton Coffman: know, so it's tricky. It's tricky. It
Jimmy Lea: is tricky. And I, and you're right. And if I have some advice for you, unsolicited, unpaid, and you know what free advice is worth, take it into advisement. Yeah. Look at the shops that already have people in it. Stop trying to get the empty shop. 'cause you're starting from scratch.
Jimmy Lea: Zero. Start with something that's already in second gear, third gear. That's little better because you can take it up from there. Go back to this guy. So I'll tell you a story. Way back in the day, I bought, or I started a franchise. We did house cleaning, yard care and handyman services, and there was a cleaning business.
Jimmy Lea: Business for sale. And I saw it on Facebook or Craigslist or something way back in the day. And I called her up and I said hey, we own a cleaning company. You own a cleaning company, you're for sale. What's your number? And it was like way up here. And I was like, oh, okay. You know, I, thanks. I appreciate the number.
Jimmy Lea: Would you be willing to get together? I'd love to sit down and talk to you, see what you've got, what your assets are, look at the whole p and l and all that kind of stuff. So we get there, we get together and we get looking at stuff. And I said, Hey I'm not afraid by the number, but I am afraid that your business isn't justifying the number that you're looking for.
Jimmy Lea: What's what would be your number? And she came off a couple thousand. I said, okay, no, cool. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. And I kept in touch with her. I called every two months or so. And come to find out. She had gone and gotten her teaching degree and was going to the next school year, gonna be going back to teaching school.
Jimmy Lea: So in the meantime, she lost a couple of accounts and I came, I called her up and I'd say, Hey, so what's your number now? How's it going? How's business? What's your number now? And it just kept coming down and down and down and down. And it got to a point where it was like, okay, I can do that.
Jimmy Lea: What you've got left on the books, what you've got left that you're selling. I don't want any of your equipment. But if you're gonna throw it away, I'll take it so you don't have to throw it away. Sure. But you keep your truck, you keep your stuff I'm ready to just take your clients. 'cause that's essentially all I was buying.
Jimmy Lea: And that might be the situation that you're in with this per this shop out on the peninsula is, hey, they gave you blue sky here the other day. They've had time to marinate and maybe that couple got together and finally said, you know what, maybe we are ready to just get out and be done.
Clinton Coffman: That's what I was really hoping for, but somebody bought it.
Clinton Coffman: Oh, somebody bought it. Like for the number they were asking. We were about a month and a half after. I was like I can't you guys, somebody decided it was worth it. Where are they at? I don't know. Do you know the details?
Jimmy Lea: You don't know the details? I don't
Clinton Coffman: know. I heard a rumor the other week 'cause I have a buddy whose parents live out there.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. The building's for rent. Oh. And I've been meaning all week to call just to see if they're open. Nice. Because maybe I hope not for him.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: Right. But maybe that building is empty now. Because things didn't work out.
Jimmy Lea: Yep, yep.
Clinton Coffman: But yeah, I would feel, I'd feel really bad for the guy who ended up spending that money and then within a year it's
Jimmy Lea: closed down Ed
Clinton Coffman: and he's got a family.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. No I don't wish any ill will on anybody, but I also know what I'm go, willing to do for my family.
Clinton Coffman: Absolutely.
Jimmy Lea: And that's what you've gotta look after. You gotta look after number one. 'cause nobody else will look after you. Clinton. Nope. You look after you. I love it. I love it. Hey, well, one last final question for you, Clinton.
Jimmy Lea: As we land this plane, what does success look like for you? So whether that's today or in the future, what does success look like?
Clinton Coffman: So number one is taking care of my family, raising my kids in the right way, being able to afford. We're talking in a financial way to give them the opportunities my parents were able to give me.
Clinton Coffman: That's number one. Number two, I would love this to become something, whatever that iteration becomes, right. I'm not opposed to any direction that it goes. As long as it goes something I can pass down.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Clinton Coffman: Something I can be like, Hey, kid. Do you wanna learn how to do this or not? If you don't, that's fine.
Clinton Coffman: I don't wanna pressure any of them into following in any footsteps.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Clinton Coffman: But I would love, especially with the job market the way it is, and AI taking a lot of entry level jobs. Yep. Now I've got 17 year olds, she's been applying at places. For a year and a half now. Oh my gosh. And you know, McDonald's won't call her back.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word.
Clinton Coffman: It's crazy, right? Like when I was 15, 14, I had a paper route.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Those don't
Clinton Coffman: even exist anymore,
Jimmy Lea: dude. I was 12, 13. Yeah. Then I started a yard care. I was doing lawn mowing lawns. I was making more than teachers at school.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. And now, nowadays it's like. It's very hard to get these kids into something.
Clinton Coffman: Yeah. You get a college degree. It's hard to get in somewhere now. Yeah. So something that they can at least fall back on, you know? Yeah. Success is knowing my kids are okay, they're doing the right thing. That I can take care of my, myself and them.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. That peace, the happiness that comes with knowing the family's covered.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Well, Clint I know you are gonna be successful. I know you're gonna have a successful life, brother. Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you. Good luck. If there's anything I can do along the way to help you out, brother, I'm a phone call away.
Clinton Coffman: Absolutely. Absolutely. I appreciate you, Jimmy.
Clinton Coffman: Thanks for having me on.
Jimmy Lea: You're very welcome. Thank you, Clinton. We'll talk to you soon. Alright. Take care.

164 - What’s Your Shop Worth? with Michael Smith & Cecil Bullard

164 - What’s Your Shop Worth? with Michael Smith & Cecil Bullard
October 29, 2025 - 00:56:06
 
Show Summary:
Discover how real buyers value auto repair shops and how to increase your multiple. In What’s Your Shop Worth with Michael Smith and Cecil Bullard, they explain how to calculate true business value using EBITDA, owner compensation, and accurate add-backs. They share how profit consistency, team strength, and brand reputation impact what your shop is really worth. You’ll also learn the four value drivers that attract higher offers: human capital, brand and culture, customer loyalty, and solid systems. Whether you plan to sell to private equity, a key employee, or family, this session will help you build a more valuable business and secure your financial future.
 
Host(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:02:10] - Cecil details court cases that reveal how off-books decisions and owner roles can distort a shop’s true value.[00:06:15] - A 40-year legacy appraises at $13,000, showing how “cash machine” habits erase investor value.[00:09:50] - Michael cites that 80–85% of small businesses lack sufficient investor value and why that matters at exit.[00:12:15] - The real options at the end: close, sell to family/key staff, or sell to an investor—and the risks of each.[00:14:10] - Mindset shift: every owner is a private equity investor in their own company, whether they realize it or not.[00:19:40] - Build an exit strategy now; waiting until your mid-60s often means there is little to sell.[00:23:00] - Profit without guilt: you cannot win the lowest-price race, so price for quality and sustainability.[00:29:00] - The four capitals that drive multiples: human (team), social (brand/culture), customer (loyalists), structural (SOPs).[00:44:15] - Why today’s PE buyers pay more for well-run, team-driven shops and what they scrutinize first.[00:50:30] - The consolidation wave is early; position your shop now to ride it for the next two decades.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Cecil Bullard: Welcome. I'm Cecil Bullard from the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. I am the I guess I'm the founder now and not the CEO 43 years in the automotive business. Sitting next to me is Michael Smith. Hi, everybody. Michael and I met three years ago. Yeah, something like that, ish.
Cecil Bullard: Michael's an expert on mergers and acquisitions and has put some things together with some of our clients that were very successful and profitable for them. Yes. And a couple years ago, we decided that Michael needed to be a part of the institute. And so here you are. Here we are. Why don't you tell 'em a little bit about your.
Michael Smith: Yeah I love your background in the concentration of this industry. I came from a different background. I was in the Fortune 500 level consulting business, and I grew up in 50 or 60 industry verticals. I haven't ever really counted different industries, different dynamics, different edges to them.
Michael Smith: Gives me a great background to come here. I think I got here about. 10 years ago, met a guy who had three shops and he said, I'm not having enough fun with this to keep doing it. I either gotta make more money or have more fun or both. Can you help me? And I said, maybe what do you want? He said, can you look at my little three shop system, like you would have one of the bigger companies and help me, tell me what you see.
Michael Smith: And I want you here because you're an outsider to the industry, not an insider. And I want you to tell me what you see. And that got me started. Got me started loving this business. The operator, the owner operators that we serve, the people that we've become very fond of. Hardworking people. 20, 30, 40 year legacies in this business.
Michael Smith: I, I love the people that we have the privilege to work with.
Cecil Bullard: My, my dad was one of those guys that you know, when he was 12 he quit school and went to work at the Ford dealer. Pushing brooms and Yeah. Cleaning stuff up. And eventually became a Ford master mechanic at the dealership. And then he started his own shop in 1961.
Cecil Bullard: 61. Yeah. And he worked there for a very long time. He, you know, he's gone now. He's been gone for I think about 12 or 13 years. I try not to keep count of the time. Right. You know, 'cause it's emotional indeed. But he was the he was the guy that worked really hard in his business.
Cecil Bullard: But it didn't have the kind of value. And so today I think what we're talking about is value and how do we value these businesses? How are they valued? And I think I, I'd like to add that for about the past six or seven years, I've done quite a few cases where I've testified in court where we've either had like a husband and wife, they're getting divorced.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, the last one was kind of interesting. The husband was heaven. An affair with the service advisor. And the wife got kind of kicked out and then the husband started doing stuff off the books. And so it looked like the business had no value, but it really had value because of what had happened previously.
Cecil Bullard: And then there was one that I did in Nevada where two owners, one guy left for three years. The other guy closed the corporation and opened another corporation, and this guy came back and wanted a million dollars. And so I've testified in several court cases about how we do value. I wrote an article, it's probably 15 years ago now, about kind of the six or seven major ways that we kind of value automotive businesses.
Cecil Bullard: And that has changed a little. I think that's in, to me, it's kind of interesting that, you know, I think four x, maybe five x was five x times ebitda. So earnings before, which I wanna say income tax, interest tax, and depreciation. Ation and amortization. Yeah. And amort. Okay. And the amortization thing I always mess up, but basically at the end of the year, what do I have?
Cecil Bullard: F left in the pile before I pay taxes and interest on loans and things like that. And then, so, currently the industry 2.8 is the last number. I saw that about three months ago in a industry article. And so I've been kind of quoting that would fall in line with where we're at somewhere between about one x so, and about four x or maybe five x if I found the right buyer.
Cecil Bullard: But really now because of the mergers and acquisitions and the venture capital, some of that's kind of changed. I mean, the core of it really hasn't, you have to be profitable. You have to be growing as a company. You have to have a decent lease or be able to own the property. What does the owner do in the business?
Cecil Bullard: If the owner is the service advisor or the lead tech, then the business is worth less because if the owner leaves right, you know, et cetera, can you carry the staff forward? Do you have systems, processes procedures in your business? So I wrote that article I dunno, years ago, published in one of the.
Cecil Bullard: Industry magazines. And I think that's how I ended up testifying in court was because somebody dug that up and said, oh, this guy knows what he's talking. So I got 'em all. I got 'em all fooled.
Michael Smith: Yeah, no. Well, I, you know, one of the things that caused me to stay when I got introduced to this industry was the dynamic of where we're going.
Michael Smith: The fact that I think there's an estimated, at least two thirds of the owner operators, if not more in our industry, are baby boomers who are interested in getting out in the next handful of years or slightly more, maybe sooner if you're exhausted. And the stories are heartbreaking. We have, I have a high performance group of.
Michael Smith: Top shops that are becoming topper shops, if you will, and one of the guys told a story at our last meeting, bought the business from his dad. And he said, love my dad worked for my dad. We're th he was the third generation in that family. And he said, and we wanted to give our dad as much money as we possibly could for the business that he was selling to us.
Michael Smith: And he said, and we did all the right valuation stuff. And when we were done, the business was worth. Are you ready for this $13,000? Yeah. 40 years. Yeah. In the business it was worth $13,000 on paper from an investor perspective, and it broke their hearts, bought the business from 'em for that, gave them a job, all that right, and then has turned it into something extraordinarily different now.
Michael Smith: But that's one of the reasons I'm here, because there's a lot of wonderful car service companies that do a great job with your customers that. Take care of your people very well. Long years of long days, and all the stress that goes in our industry and you don't have enough to retire on at the end. And that just, it breaks our hearts.
Michael Smith: There's, it's one of the things that makes
Cecil Bullard: me very passionate about the industry. You know, having my dad, yeah. Work is, you know, just work his fingers to the bone his entire life. And don't get me wrong, he loved what he was doing, but it we were never. Well off. Yeah. You know, we were always on the poor side.
Cecil Bullard: Later when I managed his shop, we started making money and so he was able to do some things and put some money away for his retirement. But there's so many shop owners that are not only just like working so hard in their business, but. They don't understand at the end that it's not worth very much because you didn't do the things that, or maybe you did.
Cecil Bullard: You know, there's instances, even now we're doing some evaluation, we're doing a lot of this right now for some of our clients and some other people like, Hey what is my business worth? I think it might be worth, we got a guy he thinks it's worth maybe two or 300,000. And when we looked at what he's pulling out and way, he's pulling it out.
Cecil Bullard: Unfortunately, if he had not done it that way and done it a different way, then he would've got the multiple meaning he, he took 150,000 as a salary. That probably should have been a draw to put in the profit, and we can put some of that back and create some additional wealth outta that. But if he had done it right.
Cecil Bullard: Initially and knew what he was up to. It. It could even be I think we figured out it was a little worth a little over 800,000 when we did the bot, the put backs and Yeah. But it probably could have been worth a million too. Sure. Right. And so I think that's
Michael Smith: the, and that's one of the, you know, that's one of the statistics, one of the things we got to know each other, walking beside very successful clients.
Michael Smith: Either side of them, looked over at each other and said, you know, this is not like two separate sets of train tracks. This is a set of train tracks that the same clients are gonna go down. His is one track, mine's another one. We should make them parallel and do this thing together. But one of the topics that came up was that issue of value and the fact that, you know, the private equity world, when you ask them, take all small businesses that are privately held, like our industry.
Michael Smith: Primarily is, and you ask the private equity people, what percentage of those companies, out of a hundred percent are, have been run such that they have been good investment, they would be good investments for us to buy as an investor, not have they been good cash machines for the owner, but is there something to buy at the end, guys, the statistic is 80 to 85%.
Michael Smith: Of the privately held businesses in this country, and not just our industry, but all industries, 6 million plus businesses, 80 to 85% of them have been used as like a cash machine. And do not ha get this, do not have enough significant value in them for an investor to even buy them.
Cecil Bullard: So I was talking about the case that I did in Vegas a few years ago.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. In Las Vegas. The other guy came back and they had showed like a hundred thousand in profit.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: But they hadn't paid themselves. So one guy was the service advisor, the other guy was the lead tech, and then they had a couple of other techs and they did like 500, 600,000 and they showed a hundred thousand in profit.
Cecil Bullard: But when you put their salaries back into the company it actually lost like 40 grand. So it had zero value. Right. I mean, it really had no value. The when I got done testifying and brought all the pieces in play and I said, you know, an average service advisor in this area would make X and an average you know, tech would make wine.
Cecil Bullard: And so the company really lost over $40,000 in this year. And the judge was like you know, okay, we're done. There's no court case. They just dismissed the case. Yeah. Because there was no value, there was no conversation you had and you see it.
Cecil Bullard: You see it a lot. I mean, the other thing I see is guys that don't figure this out in a timely fashion, like okay.
Cecil Bullard: I don't want to think about it. I got a couple guys right now that that are in their, you know, mid sixties. Yeah. And by the way, I'm on the lower edge of the baby boomers. Right. So, so these guys are boomers, right? Yeah. Right. But they don't want to think about their retirement. They got sons in play.
Cecil Bullard: The sons are kind of being underpaid, undervalued. Right. But if they don't figure it out when the time comes, you know, when they have to. Five years from now, four years from now, there just won't be value there.
Michael Smith: Well, if you think, and if you think about it, you know, if we don't build businesses that have investor value, that's, that is obvious to an investor, what do you do with it at that point?
Michael Smith: You come to the end, you got really two choices. One close it. Just stop, which gives you really nothing other than the asset sale of whatever you can. You can dig outta the business and sell at a super discount to somebody, or you sell it to a key employee that may be a family member for as much as you can get out of 'em.
Michael Smith: If you're lucky, and I'm gonna say if you're lucky in maybe a non-ethical way. You sell it to them for more than it's worth. 'cause they don't know any better when you fix a price to it. They say okay, but that's it. Those are your, those are our two choices. Right? And
Cecil Bullard: You are an investor whether you like it or not.
Cecil Bullard: And there's a, I think there's a, an industry like I don't want to deal with private equity. And so, okay, so you're not gonna deal with private equity, so you're not gonna have an investor, like a cash investor come in, you're gonna deal with your son, your daughter. Your cousin or a long-term employee.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And that is a big part of what happens, right. But if you look at money management and they don't have any money,
Michael Smith: right.
Cecil Bullard: So maybe they've saved 50,000 or a hundred thousand Well, and they put a down on your business Yes. At 400,000 or 500,000 and you carry it. But those payments, first of all, won't, they're not gonna give you a lifestyle that is comfortable.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And if you have one health issue you're done. You're done. And then and the other part of that for me is it's just like that if they screw up a year and a half in and you think you're retired and they've screwed it up, and now you're coming back and you've got the original a hundred thousand and maybe you had 50 or 60,000 in payments over the year and a half, they were in.
Cecil Bullard: But you're you only got a third of the money and there's nothing there. Right. There's nothing left because they've chased the customers away. They've they've pissed off all the vendors, you know, et cetera.
Michael Smith: Well, I'm, I wanna go back to something you said. I don't wanna sell to a private equity investor.
Michael Smith: Okay. You're gonna, if you don't close the front door, you are gonna sell to a private equity investor. And this is something I talk to my clients about here all the time. I wanna see a mindset shift, right? I wanna see it in the industry. I wanna see us go from saying, oh, you know, if I say, what do you do for a living?
Michael Smith: And say, I own an auto service shop. Really? Tell me about that. I'm an owner operator. You know what I want the second answer to be? I'm a private equity investor who happens to invest in a. Auto service companies. And I'm gonna tell you that's a huge mindset shift because, and I'm not correcting you.
Michael Smith: I'm saying this is the conversation that happens is I don't wanna be involved in investment to conversations. You were, when you bought the company, you bought it as a private equity investor regardless of you bought, whether you knew it or not. Right. And you're selling it to somebody who's a private equity investor in your company.
Cecil Bullard: Oh, no I started it because I just needed to make a living and I didn't feel like I could make a living where my. Where I was and I wasn't getting paid enough and I wasn't in control. I can do it better than that. Crazy hunter do it. But you're a private equity investor for yourself. I mean, and that shift really does need to happen.
Cecil Bullard: I mean, and the other thing that I think is cool 'cause. You know, we have a lot of clients around the United States and Canada primarily, and I, I'm watching these young guys come in their late twenties, early thirties, and they're like, I'm gonna have 55 shops, and they're going out and getting 2, 3, 4, 5 really relatively quickly.
Cecil Bullard: Right. But they're coming in with a completely different mindset of this is an investment and you know, you, like it or not, you may have come in, like my father out of. Like, I call it serendipity, right? Right. Accidentally falling backwards into it. I opened a shop. I ended up working at Ford to sweeping floors and then learned how to be a mechanic, and so then I opened a shop.
Cecil Bullard: Serendipitously. Right. But you are an investor, whether you like it or not, in your own success or your own ultimate failure, right? Yeah. And there's nothing I had we've done multiple plans for guys. I had a someone who, if I said his name, most, a lot of people in the industry would know who I'm talking about, right?
Cecil Bullard: They know the guy and he's got multiple shops at this point, but he came on at a shop that was one of the guys in our group. Knowing that in seven years he was going to buy the shop. Right? But they didn't get the details in play, right? And so at the end, the owner is looking at what the value of the shop is, and so is he.
Cecil Bullard: He's going, well, it's only worth a million, right? And the owner's saying, well, I don't have any money set aside and I don't. I need a million and a half to retire. So now. The price is suspect after seven years of him putting his life in there. The price is suspect. Right. And the deal almost didn't happen.
Cecil Bullard: I had to tell the buyer you know, pay an extra a hundred grand. Just do it 'cause the value is there in the shop. We'll get it back. And he did. But then the owner wanted even more. He wanted like the roof. The roof needed to be replaced 'cause he'd never fixed the roof and it leaked for years.
Cecil Bullard: And it was like gonna cost $47,000 to fix the roof. And yeah, the owner wanted the new buyer to fix the roof and not have that in. And I was finally like, go back to the owner and go, sorry. No deal. Yeah, no, no deal. And but if you. So I did another one in for another guy, which if I mentioned people would know.
Cecil Bullard: They, I think they ended up with six or seven shops at this point, but I don't know, eight years ago, nine years ago, we made a deal with one of the key employees that if they grew the business, we would give them. Up to 25% of the company as stock over seven years, and at the end of seven years, if they had grown the business enough, they would have 25% of the stock, plus they would then be able to buy the business, but the business was worth.
Cecil Bullard: I don't know, 10, 15 times what it was worth before. Right. Even though I gave up 30%, I still came out way ahead. Right. And that deal went down as planned. Right. And so now there's a guy that owns multiple shops who came in, they negotiated, we were involved in those negotiations and setting that plan up.
Cecil Bullard: And then seven years later, okay, we have an agreement. This is the agreement. This is for market value boom. Right. And everybody's happy and walks away from it and the owner can retire if he wants to retire, he can do other things if he wants to do other things.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: But too many of the guys, I have another guy right now who is my age, and he's not unhealthy, but you know, who knows right?
Cecil Bullard: At this age, who knows? I mean, you could wake up tomorrow and they could tell you got a tumor in your head. Right, right, right. So that happened to somebody I know. Somebody we know. But he doesn't wanna have the conversation with his son. He doesn't want to do what he needs to do. Right. And it's really not.
Cecil Bullard: Like he doesn't want to take care of his kid or he doesn't want his business going. It's like, I don't wanna think that someday I might die. Right? No. So I don't wanna have
Michael Smith: that conversation. And you add to the fact that we do not work in an easy business. It is complicated, time consuming, energy draining.
Michael Smith: And the important stuff, some times we all talk about gets pushed to the back for the urgent.
Cecil Bullard: I cannot tell you, it happens a lot how many guys we have right now that are in their late sixties, early seventies. That have to get outta their business, just have to but they haven't done what they need to create the value to, to be able to, in my opinion, retire with dignity.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Et cetera. Yep. And it's it's, so, here's an idea. It's
Michael Smith: heartbreaking. So here's an idea. Yeah. No matter where they are in the business, right, that the owner operator says, you know what, from this day forward, I'm gonna see if I can make this as valuable from an investment perspective as I can, regardless of who I sell it to.
Michael Smith: So you don't wanna play the private equity game. Completely understand. Why don't, that's fine. But what does it hurt you to build a company that has as much investment value as you can, that along the way makes you more money than you've ever made before, continues to grow faster and better than you've ever had before, gives you the resources to build up a better team to go get better customers, right?
Michael Smith: It's kinda like what's the losing proposition in this? So if you just. Go that way and still decide to sell it to whoever at the end, along the way, you win. So the point is, start now. Well think about the end. Now, regardless if you're 20 years old or 65 years old, I don't,
Cecil Bullard: I don't care what age you are.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I don't care if you're matter brand new coming in or you're 65 or 70, you need to be thinking about what your out strategy is. Yes. No matter what. Absolutely. And the good news is if you're 25 or 30. You have lots of time. If you're 65 or 70, there's not much time left. Ah, you still got lots of time.
Cecil Bullard: Right, right.
Michael Smith: We keep telling ourselves that every day. We still got lots of time. Right. I got
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. But we are, you know, we are setting ourselves up as investors, right. To be successful. And I think one of the things that drives me nuts about our industry is. Understand how to run your business profitably and don't feel guilty about making profit, because that's what it's about, right?
Cecil Bullard: Because if you don't, you're gonna come to this point where you're like, I gotta get out. I'm not healthy enough, or whatever, and there's nothing there for you. I mean, that's no real value. So, so I wanna
Michael Smith: hear your opinion about this. So I'll toss out an idea, right? So if you say to yourself, I feel guilty about making a profit.
Michael Smith: And a lot of our clients, they struggle with this, right? And the whole industry kind of does. The whole industry does so, right? So if we say, okay you're welcome to feel guilty about that but let's say this you're gonna need to, when you go to another. Place to get service, whether you hire a lawyer to help you with a will or whether you go to buy a service.
Michael Smith: You know, you go to buy a product, you're gonna put an air
Cecil Bullard: conditioning in that house, anything or whatever, right? Right. Your HVAC goes
Michael Smith: out and it's spend 12 grand on a new one, whatever it is. Right? You sit down. Are you worried about their profit margin when you do that? No. The price matters, but it's back to the quality of the equipment.
Michael Smith: It's like, does it, is it the right fit for the house? Let's stay with hvac, right? Yeah. Do I overbuy, do I undery? Is there a warranty? What does it look like? Are these people are.
Cecil Bullard: Also ran piece of equipment. Are they putting, absolutely putting a ream in or something that has a brand name? Or do you
Michael Smith: go to your HVAC person, guy or gal and go, Hey, listen, I want you to put in the cheapest possible thing you can.
Michael Smith: That's gonna be problematic for me in very short order, and I don't care if you have a warranty or not. Just give me the lowest price you possibly can. It's kind of exaggerating, but like, what are you gonna, you're not gonna make that. Other decision, you're gonna make the decision to buy the quality, pay the right price for it, sleep at night.
Michael Smith: I don't wanna think about
Cecil Bullard: it for the next 25 years if I'm gonna spend that of money, I don't wanna think about
Michael Smith: it. Exactly. And so here's the point that I'm making. As you draw your customers in, and we know this based on how you approach that philosophy, if you feel guilty about making. A margin, a good margin in your business, a good profit.
Michael Smith: And then you start to cut the profit amounts to be able to be more price competitive in the market. I'm gonna say this, from a competitive advantage standpoint, you're already starting to play a losing game. 'cause if you think about it, there's only one low price player in every market. Just one. Only one person can be at the bottom of that game.
Michael Smith: And everybody, it's a race to, there's only one Walmart. It's ARAF to race to destruction, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. And you think about it and that's the thing I always say is that. Yeah. No matter how cheap you can be someone can be cheaper than you. Gotcha. Right. You can't win that game. You cannot win that game.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And so in my crystal ball, the future of the automotive industry is you got the cheap guy, you're always gonna have the cheap guy else working out of his house, not doesn't have workers' comp, whatever, don't know what they're
Michael Smith: doing.
Michael Smith: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: But you're also, you're gonna have the guy that gives really great service.
Cecil Bullard: And a great product. Those are the only two that, that are gonna exist. And we've seen this happen in multiple industries. I mean, Kmart, where'd they go? Right, right. I mean, target kind of holds on, it's a middle player if you's middle. If you think Walmart and Nordstrom's and you know, Target's a little bit of a middle player.
Cecil Bullard: But even then. We know that if I go to Target, I'm gonna pay a little more money. I believe I'm gonna get a little higher quality, blah, blah, blah. Right. They're not
Michael Smith: play on the low price game. No.
Cecil Bullard: They're really not. Right. And so let's go let's I guess this is about how do you value a shop?
Cecil Bullard: Yes. Okay. And so you need three years worth of profit and loss statements, minimal. For someone to really take a look at your business and go, here's what it ought to be worth. Right. Right. And it, the primary thing is. How much profit did you make? I mean, don't get me wrong. I mean, there's these other factors like, have you been growing or shrinking?
Cecil Bullard: You know, 2020, hurt a lot of companies, right. Not because they didn't survive or they didn't even make money in 2020. They just didn't make as much as they had previously. Yep. And the banks and everything, they're like, well, you're not worth, we can't loan you money, or we can't do this because you had a low year.
Cecil Bullard: So it's about consistency of profit that's. That's, I don't know, that's 50, 60% of it. And how much? Because if you make a 4% profit or you make a 20% profit, the 4% profit company has no value. I mean, almost nothing. Right. Even if it's, I did well, we did 40 million and we made 4%. You know, and by the way, there's no auto shops doing 40 million that made 4%.
Cecil Bullard: They won't. If they won't survive, they won't. You can't get that big on 4%. You can't do that, right? You
Michael Smith: have nothing to invest.
Cecil Bullard: But it that's like the bulk of it really is that consistency of profit over time. And because that's the, what the bank is willing to land on. Yeah. That's what creates most of the value.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. There are other things like if the owner doesn't work in the company as far as like, I might do the books or I might come in and, you know, once a week and kind of rah the guys, but I'm not fixing cars and I'm not right in service. That adds to that, that means I get a bigger X.
Cecil Bullard: But everything and so you, you also have these owners right now. They're like, well, you know, I'm I buy all my groceries through the company, right? So they're, you know, they're whatever. Bill is huge. And the company makes a lot less profit and they think they're saving themselves 'cause they're not paying taxes on that money.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Saves them that I don't know that 25% on the money, so. But let's say that I do that and it's $50,000 a year that I'm spending, and I'm gonna make 50,000 less, and I'm gonna not pay taxes on that 50 grand, which would be 20, I don't know, 23, 20 7% or something. So it's gonna save me 10, 12,000.
Cecil Bullard: But that 50,000, when I go to sell it, if it's a four x or A three X, just
Michael Smith: make it three x. Right. Three x that, that's
Cecil Bullard: $50,000. How many years do I have to do? That's right. To make up for that $150,000 I'm not gonna get at the end. Yep. I mean, and
Michael Smith: so, so let's pretend for a second that, that you do wanna play an investment game.
Michael Smith: And I, I call it a game because there's lots of strategies. It's like playing chess. Everything's a game. Life. Life is a game. Life's a game. That's how we, that's how we enjoy what we're doing. Here anyway, so what we talk about is just go with me for a minute. Say you want to make this worth as much as you can to an investor.
Michael Smith: So what Cecil was saying is absolutely right. The baseline you have to present into the investment community is better than your average shop in our industry. The average shop in our industry is a 4% net. At the end, the paycheck does or doesn't. Sometime one month the owner gets a paycheck. One month they don't.
Michael Smith: One month they get a paycheck. One month they don't. It's two to three employees. This is the average shop in our industry out of 235,000. Approximately. Okay. So if you think from an investor's perspective, that doesn't even get you to the table. And this is kind of the point that I think we're trying to make.
Michael Smith: If you're struggling at that level you can't stop now, right? If you want to put you, you don't even have to want to win at the investment game. But if you're gonna sell it to have anything really meaningful come back to you to retire on, we have to get out of this sort of typical industry thinking and start saying, okay.
Michael Smith: And I'm gonna put it this way, what does an investor want to see when they come to the table to give me more than that? That minimum amount, the two and a half times of that 4% net, right? They won't even pay you for that. But two, how about a
Cecil Bullard: 4% net? You're gonna. You won't make two and a half times won't, you're gonna make less.
Cecil Bullard: You won't. So yeah you might get a one x or maybe even a two x, but so what does it take
Michael Smith: to make more? Right? So let's talk about that. When an investor comes in, the minimum that you have to show them a steady growth of revenue and profits over a three better, a five year period of time that you can tell a story in the marketplace.
Michael Smith: What is your unique. Competitive advantage, not what your competitive advantage, that's the same as his and hers and his and hers. You gotta stop a unique thing and we have
Cecil Bullard: to, in our industry, we have to stop thinking about, well I can I use a better water pump? Or, you know, whatever. Or I have a SC certified master technicians.
Cecil Bullard: That's nobody. That's your, nobody else ever said, that's not your competitive advantage. Your competitive advantage is how you make your client feel. Right, exactly. And the consistency that you create in your company because of that. Right. That's those things are your competitive advantages.
Michael Smith: So there's a list of things that private equity will pay more for than just a well run financial shop.
Michael Smith: So let me give you the short list. Human capital. Do you have the rock stars working for you? Leaders and team members, that's one. Number two is social capital, your culture, your brand, and your market reputation. Is it superior? We know the definition of superior brand, superior culture, superior market reputation.
Michael Smith: Lemme just get the list out and we'll come back to it if I can't. Right? Number three is customer capital. Have you captured the premium customers in your marketplace? If you can make the case that the rock stars are yours, the market position is yours in terms of leadership and influence, and the customers are there.
Michael Smith: You got the best customers in town. Then they say there's one more thing we want to ask you. Have you institutionalized all of this so that when you, the owner, walk away with a check and we take the keys from you, that this thing will continue in the excellence that you built for us after we buy it? And if they feel confident that all of that is there, we're talking two to three times.
Michael Smith: More value coming back to you than if we just run the average kind of a shop,
Cecil Bullard: Cecil? Well, it's kind. So I wanna go back to those four, but absolutely. It's kinda like this. So I'm running a 4% shop and I'm making 60,000 a year, right? So I'm doing 1,000,002, I'm I'm net 60 plus whatever I'm taking outta the company.
Cecil Bullard: And I can do some put backs depending on how. What I do in the company and how in ingrained I am. Right? And so if I'm making 40,000. Then that shop has no value, no matter what. And these guys build like, well, we have the reputation in the area. Okay, great. But if you don't have the team, if you don't have the other things that go along with that then it does, it's not worth any that reputation. Absolutely. It by the way, I see guys with great shops as far as reputation goes with not enough profit. Where they're closing their doors because nobody can buy it. Nobody wants to buy it, no bank will loan on it, blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: And it, it makes me it, again, a lot of things make me crazy. It's one of those things. So go back to the four, what was the first thing that you said? Human
Michael Smith: capital.
Cecil Bullard: So human rock stars, human capital. So you're, what you're always doing if you do this right, is you're always building a team.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Right. So. Everything that I do in this company and in the shops was to build a team of successful people so I don't have to be there. Right. To guide that team or lead that team or answer all their questions. For them not because of value, frankly. 'cause I never thought of it that way.
Cecil Bullard: Quite, I thought of it in this sense. I don't want to be locked and tied into this day-to-day. Like my dad's shop had a, a room that was like probably 10 or 11 feet wide by 20 feet. That's where the counter was. That's what when I ran his shop, that's where I spent 90% of my life was in that 11 by 20 space.
Cecil Bullard: Right. And it drove me nuts. And I'm like, I can't do this for the rest of my life. I can't that's kinda why I like what I'm doing. 'cause I can go. I'll be on the East coast next week and you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But so I need to be building human capital teams Yes. Of people that can do the job without me.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. And some of these guys, God bless you, but you're so, I need to be the guy that. That literally is the guy that's the best guy that makes all the decisions that does because only I can make those decisions and only I really know how to fix the cars and only I know how to talk to. Yep. And that is so much crap.
Cecil Bullard: So lemme tell you is bad for you and
Michael Smith: lemme tell you how you break free from that, right? You have to have a mindset shift. That you're not, you shouldn't be the answer person. And that's a mindset shift. There's a dopamine hit that goes with being the mind to being the answer person. Right. I am Cecil, I'm stuck.
Michael Smith: Can you help me? Oh, sure. I can. Yeah, lemme help you. Let me tell you what to do. And then that. Thanks, boss. And then you walk away and cecil's like,
Cecil Bullard: well,
Michael Smith: he is glowing. Right? That's, I'm a genius. I'm kidding. I'm so smart. That's the same dopamine addiction that takes kids back to social media, right? That dopamine addiction owners who do this, that's so you feel good about that, but guess what?
Michael Smith: I talk all the time about an investor. I got a short list of questions. I got medium lists, I got long listed investors use. That's what we train our clients. And one of the questions on that list is, and this is serious, you've heard this over and over, how much do you work on the business versus in the business?
Michael Smith: Early owners will say, what do you mean? It's like, what are the roles that you play in the business right now? And an owner may say, oh, I'm the fallback guy. I answer the questions nobody else can answer. When the service advisor team is down, I'm at the front desk, I'm under a car. Whenever a tech doesn't show up, I do all the bookkeeping, my, my spouse and I, all this.
Michael Smith: Right? At the end of the day, you know, every one of those roles that you play, working in the business is something that the new owner has to pay somebody to bring to the table. When they buy the business. So you wanna work yourself into a position, and I'm going somewhere with this where you don't have to do that.
Michael Smith: And you may say, I can't do that. My people aren't that good. There you go. That's your problem. Your people aren't that good. Train them. Hire a different class of people. We know exactly what it means to be a champion, to run a champ. Team, we know how to turn champions on, get the rock stars to come to you.
Michael Smith: The kinds of questions to ask, we know why they come and stay. Rock stars are different than the typical employee. We teach you these things and we say once you get those people to come to you, then guess what? They don't ask you those questions as much anymore. And guess what? They're more reliable.
Michael Smith: 'cause they come to work and they'll call you if they're not feeling well. And you can make other arrangements not to have to be the emergency. Fill in. And the point is, it's like if you find yourself in a place where you're stuck doing that. With all due respect, it may be as much on you as it is on the people in your shop.
Michael Smith: There are ways to get around this stuff, and again, there's no guilt trip here. This is how you prepare your shop for an investor's sale, is you make sure that you take care of these value components and you put them in place before you try to sell it to anybody. Whether the investor is your kid or your key employee, or some private equity person walking in the front door with a big checkbook.
Michael Smith: Same dynamic.
Cecil Bullard: So we have a rather large client. They do. Exceptionally well. Yeah. And in their business, the owner was the head diagnostician. Yep. Right. And he als he had cancer and had to go in for chemo and Yeah. Et cetera and literally disappeared. And we didn't have anybody that could be the diagnostician.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so they're like, okay, well we're gonna hire this person or whatever, but you, where do you find them? And. How did you become good at what you do? I got news for you. I'm, I tripped. I made mistakes. I screwed up. I learned, right? And I didn't have somebody looking over my shoulder.
Cecil Bullard: Pointing out every right way I should do the job. Right, right. And so you're not doing yourself or your people any favors? No. If you are the shell answer man in your business, you're not doing it. Absolutely. Alright, so number two, what was number two on your list?
Michael Smith: I put it as social capital brand culture.
Cecil Bullard: So brand reputation, and. Some of our clients or some of the industry our clients, I think do a good job in a lot of ways. Yeah. But I think some of the industry does a pretty good job on the brand part, but there's more to brand than just the name of your shop. As being recognizable.
Cecil Bullard: Right. It's how does the rest of the community see you? Right. And how do your employees see you? Because if your employees don't see the way you need to, then your brand is not. What you think your brand is. If you haven't created that culture of leaders in your company, that team culture in your company, then your brand is not as strong.
Cecil Bullard: Right? And you may think, oh, well, everybody thinks of Bob's Auto and when they're in this city and we are the best and everybody knows we're the best, but frankly, that isn't gonna. That, that might carry you forward some, but doesn't carry you forward all the way. So what was number three on your list?
Michael Smith: Customer capital. Have you captured the loyal, the clients, the loyal brand ambassadors that are yours
Cecil Bullard: and by the market. And the way, if you have a bunch of people that don't come back, or a bunch of people that come in for cheap oil changes or whatever, and then that's not, you know, if I can show that I have these clients that keep coming back and spending money over years with us.
Cecil Bullard: That is I is of extreme value. Right. You know, 'cause Blue Sky, which we used to talk about all the time. Blue Sky is something that has almost completely disappeared. Right. Because when you're not there, if they're only loyal to you. Then they're not gonna be loyal to the brand, the company, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. And so I, again, if I can do these things right, I might have a business that's worth 2 million as opposed to 600,000. Yep. Right. So level four.
Michael Smith: The structural capital. Have you built it in to your company systems, processes? Have you, you know, pretend you have one, two, and three, right?
Michael Smith: Right. You're the rock stars, the great brand culture, market reputation, and the loyal clients attached to you. But what if it's all wrapped around you? Have you institutionalized it so that will continue without you having your hands on it at all? That's number four, right? So
Cecil Bullard: If you come into, if I come into value a shot, because the courts have asked me to do that, right?
Cecil Bullard: I'm gonna look at three to five years of profit and loss. I'm also gonna look at the p and l because looking at the p and l and the profit and loss gives me information about. Is this real or bs? Right? But I'm also gonna look at what is the owner doing on a day-to-day basis in that company? Because if you are that person, then your shop it literally could go from say, a five x down to a one and a half x. Even though you might be making money. Yeah. Right. Because I've gotta think about it. I'm, you know, I've seen people buy company I bought a company and the transition. Between getting those clients in, we lost more clients than we probably should have because I still haven't figured that out really but I've seen shops do it and the owner leaves and all of a sudden the techs leave and the service advisors leave.
Cecil Bullard: And then whoever bought it is standing there with nothing. Which is
Michael Smith: also a dynamic in the buying process with a real investor. They try to assess that too.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. How do I continuity? How do I know if there's some continuity there? And by the way, if you have a good team and you have those systems and processes that guarantee profit, and these people are being paid well and they feel good about being a part of this company, right.
Cecil Bullard: That gives you more continuity. So it gives you that fourth Yep, that fourth level of,
Michael Smith: of capital. There are, and I'll say this, there, there are processes and techniques and tools behind building all of these things. You start building a high performance company by being very clear about who you are and what you stand for and when you can articulate that, and I mean.
Michael Smith: Go through a process of writing it down with great clarity that the meaning and the intensity and the emotion of the meaning is available to people who understand what that's about, what that's those statements, if you will say, then you have the platform to build a brand and your culture on. By the way, brand is your external company.
Michael Smith: Personality culture is your internal culture. Personality the culture is your internal company personality. And I make a joke with people when we're teaching this and talking about this. Don't be schizophrenic. Yeah. Don't try to have a brand that's different externally than your culture is internally.
Michael Smith: When you get consistency on that, based on the meaning that you've articulated. Then you can, number one, attract team members who walk that out naturally and are aligned. Those people then bring in customers who are aligned with the meaning, the brand and the culture, and the structuring of, this is what I'm talking about, making this a process and making this become real for your company.
Michael Smith: There are tools, there are methodologies, there's nothing. Unknown about what we're talking about. It's unusual in this industry, but it's not unknown to science, business science, or in other industries. And that's literally what we're doing is bringing this and having these conversations with our customers, with our industry marketplace.
Michael Smith: And say, guys with private equity at the door, right? The baby boomers are getting ready to run from the door in volume. The private equity guys are sitting at the door salivating, waiting for the doors to open so they can run in. And this moment in time we sit in right now. What can we be doing to build as much value as we can to either present it to them for purchase or to say to them, I don't need you.
Michael Smith: I'm fine on my own. The boomers who are leaving, how can you build as much value in this thing as you can in the time that you have left? Whether it's a year or five years, or you could extend it to seven. We're not saying be working when you're 80, but we're saying don't walk outta here with the knowledge that's available to do this.
Michael Smith: Don't leave without understanding what you need from the company when you're gone. What are you gonna do after you're retired? When you sold this thing? What your life look like after that? How much money do you need to live that life? Yeah, and what's the business have to give you to get there? Do this thinking now, Susan, and think
Cecil Bullard: about all these guys that are, they're at that place in time.
Cecil Bullard: Where they think if I don't have my business, I have nothing. Yeah. Like it's so much a part of them. Yeah. And I want to talk private equity, but I wanna make a statement first. Sure. So, so then I want to talk a little bit about private equity. Yeah. My statement is this, if you're not profitable and profitable to probably 15%.
Cecil Bullard: 14%, maybe 18% is better. 20% net is better.
Cecil Bullard: If you're not profitable. None of the other crap matters. It's, it has no value. Right? So not only do I have to do these things, but I also need to understand and learn how to be profitable in my company and not feel bad about making a profit in my company right now.
Cecil Bullard: Let's talk private equity for a minute. Yep. So, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, a couple of private equity companies step into the automotive space and they're gonna. What do we consolidate? Right? Right. And so they go out and they buy shops, but the shops they're buying are really poorly run shops because they're, their thinking from their side is, well, we know how to run a business.
Cecil Bullard: That's
Cecil Bullard: right.
Cecil Bullard: And so we're gonna come in and we'll put our processes and we're we know how to charge margin and blah, blah, blah. We're gonna teach these guys how to do business. Yeah. And they, these companies literally fell on their face, one of 'em still here, and they're actually doing better.
Cecil Bullard: But only because they changed what they were looking for. And so now these private equity companies are not looking for companies that have no margin and where the owner's in the middle of it, right? They're looking for companies that have good margin. Where they built the team, where they have the people capital, where they have the brand capital, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And they're willing to pay more for those companies than they ever did. So instead of them coming in and paying somebody a hundred grand for their shop Yeah, which was poorly ran and really probably wasn't even worth that. They thought, oh, well, they're not marking their parts up and they're not getting their profits and they're not selling enough and their average repair is too low.
Cecil Bullard: We'll fix all those things. And number one, they don't know how to do that. Right. That's what we know how to do. But I know but they couldn't, they didn't because there wasn't the basis in the human capital, the other stuff there. And then they said, oh, we made a mistake. We've spent a few billion dollars on this.
Cecil Bullard: Now I want companies where that structure is there. That capital is there, that team is there. Yep. And I'm willing to pay. Five x for that. I mean, or four x at least at the top of the charts. Right. And I just find that interesting. So now we have a bunch of more private equity guys looking at our industry and coming in our industry.
Cecil Bullard: I don't know how many. But I would tell you that I literally probably get two or three inquiries a week from different investment companies, private equity companies, about we're buying up the automotive industry, we're interested in buying, either buying your company, or how can you help us find shops that they can buy at that are these type of shops.
Cecil Bullard: And so let's say that now we have 15 or so and the billions and billions of dollars that they have. This is you. You know, I'm sure that the guy that owned the Bob's hardware in the middle of town, you know, 20 years ago, was a great guy. I'm sure that he was doing everything that he felt he should.
Cecil Bullard: But Bob's hardware doesn't exist today. Right. Right. It's gone. Right. And there I you go in the Midwest, you go in the south, there are still some small hardware stores. But almost everything is Home Depot, Lowe's there's a Freedman's in California. You know, more of the bigger chain, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: And the rest are gone. Well,
Michael Smith: there's, there are cycles that roll, rolling up industries go through. We're at the beginning of ours. Yeah. And so that gives us. It gives us time.
Cecil Bullard: 10 to 15 years. Yes, it does. To figure this out and really work it well,
Michael Smith: yes it does. And I'm, I also wanna say this about us oldsters.
Michael Smith: I'm a early, I'm a sort of the end of the baby Boomer group too. Along with Cecil. I have a lot of clients that I work with and they. You know, they start, the conversation starts. I'd like to figure out how to do as much as I can before I'm done. And we get into this and they start to unpack what it takes to be a high performance company, how to put value in it, like an investor would see it.
Michael Smith: What if I chose to have expand my footprint, right? Take my tent stakes out further. Once they start to learn this and they realize there's a science behind it, I cannot tell you the number of people in their sixties that turn to me and they go, wait a minute. What am I gonna do when I retire anyway? And now stay with me.
Michael Smith: Right? Yeah. If I say that to some of you who are probably gonna catch up with this, you're gonna say, oh my God, I'm exhausted. What do you mean I'm gonna change my mind? There's no way in hell. But here's the thing, if you do the same thing over and over again, right? That's Einstein's version of what it means to be insane.
Michael Smith: Insane, right? And hope for a different outcome. But what if you're not doing the same thing over and over again? What if this wave of investment money, regardless of who's holding it, right, there's good guys out there holding it and bad guys out there holding it. We can decide. You can, we know how to decide which ones we do and don't wanna work with, but the money is here, right?
Michael Smith: The opportunity with the boomers that are gonna leave is here. It's churning the marketplace. What if the
Cecil Bullard: wave is gone, right? I don't, I mean, the wave is
Michael Smith: here, right? Yeah. And we're like, oh, look the water's receding on the beach. Let's go pick up seashells. It's like, guys, you should be getting ready here right now.
Michael Smith: How? Right? How many, how
Cecil Bullard: many times in your life have you. Said yourself. I wish I knew that 20 years ago. Yes. Right. And that's my point. Or I wish someone had, you know, frankly, I really wish my dad or somebody had just smacked me in the face and said, Hey, stupid, wake up. Right. You know? Because there are things that I learn as I get older.
Cecil Bullard: That. I'm like, man, if I'd have known that 20 years ago, right. I don't know how many clients have come to me and said, you know, that thing is what you asked me to do. I finally did it, man. I should have done it the first time you told me six years ago. Right. And I think we all, those are regrets in a sense.
Cecil Bullard: They could be huge regrets for you. Right? Well, for most of us it's like, oh, I could be further along or whatever. But what if you did it now? Right? What if you knew the wave was coming? What if you planned for the wave? What if you so, so lemme frame the wave. Got the best surfboard. So let's
Michael Smith: frame the wave.
Michael Smith: The wave is above the beach in terms of size, right? Some of it's dribbling on the beach already. But the reality is it's gonna take 20 to 25 years for that wave to hit the beach, go all the way up land, and then come out with a reformed industry 20 to 25 years. So from that perspective, it's like, okay, so I'm 35 years old.
Michael Smith: Where are you gonna be in 20 years? 55 or 25?
Cecil Bullard: You're gonna be 60. I got news for you wake up in the morning, you're 60. Yeah. And you look in the mirror and you're like. What happened to that 40-year-old guy that I used to know that had,
Michael Smith: you know, more hair,
Cecil Bullard: right. You know, et
Michael Smith: cetera, et cetera. So my original story about guys like, what the hell am I gonna do?
Michael Smith: Retired anyway, right? The young guys that are listening to this and gals that are in your thirties and early forties, there's a window of time here and there's no pressure that we have to get in or get out. Our industry's early in the rollup phase, the consolidation thing will go through four phases.
Michael Smith: We're at the beginning of phase two. We don't need to unpack that right now, so, but there's decades to go with this. And so knowing how it works and what's the science and what's the opportunity I'm gonna say this right openly to the marketplace. You guys owe it to yourselves to know what the options,
Cecil Bullard: your families,
Michael Smith: your, you need to know your wives, and then to decide your husbands yes.
Michael Smith: I mean, come on. Joking. The legacy that you leave to your communities, your team, your customers, you, and then when you know, you can decide with education, right? With knowledge. I don't want to be with private equity investors. I do wanna sell to a key employee. I know where Well, why not set
Cecil Bullard: that up and make that happen the way you want it to happen?
Cecil Bullard: Exactly. Instead of like exactly at the last minute. Go. Oh my God, the company Worth enough. I wish I'd lo love
Michael Smith: 75% of privately held business owners. Profoundly regret, you can put that in quotes. 'cause this is profoundly regret the way they exited the business because they did it so poorly.
Michael Smith: Within 12 months of exiting the business, three quarters. That's 4 million businesses that will transact and the owners within a year will look back and say, man, I blew that opportunity. So we're saying to you, don't blow it, guys learn. Right? So
Cecil Bullard: Think about, I mean, the guys, you put together a come on, Cecil what do you call it? A group of shop owners platform. Platform put together. Yep. You put together a platform. An investment platform. An investment platform with five Yeah. Guys. Sure. With multiple shops. Yeah. And then you went out and you shopped private equity after Yep.
Cecil Bullard: Creating the human capital. The other four steps and helping them get there. Yeah. And so I know all those guys, and they're smart guys. There's, there's not like a dumb guy in the group. Right. There's some guys, they're probably not as smart as some of the others, but there's nobody in there that's like, an unlimited genius, right?
Cecil Bullard: Like, like, I couldn't do it. They're normal, smart. They're normal, smart guys. They're wise in our industry. Yeah. And by the way. So they woke up one morning and there was millions, and millions in their bank account.
Michael Smith: Tended it's not nine.
Cecil Bullard: How much fun. How much fun? Are they having now? Right.
Cecil Bullard: Still playing in the industry. Right. With millions in their bank accounts. Right. As opposed to No I'm getting towards the end. I haven't built the capital. I haven't built what I need to create the value in my shop.
Cecil Bullard: Yep.
Cecil Bullard: And now I don't, I'm afraid what happens if I get sick? Or what happens if I can't?
Cecil Bullard: Who's gonna take care of me? Which kid am I gonna burden with myself? Right. Or. If there aren't any kids how am I gonna survive the, where do I go with this thing the next 15 years? Or should I just go in the back and shoot my brains out? Right. It's such a different dynamic, right.
Cecil Bullard: That it's so opposite. Right. Right. And the it's out there ready to go. Yeah. Right.
Michael Smith: Yeah. So I guess that's our point. Maybe if we have a thousand points we've probably made today without knowing it. Yeah. Maybe if there's a point, start thinking about it now. There are methods and tools to use.
Michael Smith: Exit strategy comes from what happens after you're gone back up from being done with it to what it takes to be comfortable being done with it, to what you need to get from it, to be able to get to that point. And then we can back up from that vision, if you will, to what you have in your hand today and figure out how do you close that gap in the timeframe that you have to achieve that long-term goal.
Michael Smith: And if you wait till the end, you're. Lot less likely to get that done than if you start that thinking right now. Tools are here, processes are here. The people who know how to do it are here. We want to help. We've done it. We're in this industry to help you with this. That's why we're here. So, yeah. Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: I'm good. I think yeah, I think we made the point, and I think we talked about value and Yeah. Creating what you want and you don't have to build I also want you to know that you don't have to build seven shops. No, you don't. You don't have to be part of a platform.
Michael Smith: No, you don't.
Cecil Bullard: But run the company that you have Well, as well as you to create opportunities for yourselves and your family and to live well, because when it's all said and done that's what it's all about is well, you
Michael Smith: might as well do well doing it. So
Cecil Bullard: If you wanna know like. You say to yourselves, well, you guys, you're coaches and of course you believe you're trying to sell us something, or whatever. Right? And yes, obviously that's how I make a living, or we make a living.
Cecil Bullard: It's by helping other people, which is I don't know that there's a better place to be, but we have so much information that we don't charge for. We have our YouTube channel. We have our gear for shops.com. In the next slide, there will be a QR code that will get you hooked up. And you don't have to pay us, you don't have to say, oh, Seesaw, I wanna buy a coaching program, or I want to be in one of your programs.
Cecil Bullard: Just get as much information as you can and make sure that you are doing the best that you can to move forward. Yeah. And then if you decide, Hey, I would like to have a coach or a coaching company, or somebody help me. We certainly we're here are more than qualified to do that, and we do that routinely with all of the shops, you know, several hundred shops that we work with.
Cecil Bullard: So, yep. In the next slide, take a look and at least go look at some of the classes that are free. And I'll help you make profits and help you get outta your own way and move forward. Yeah.

163 - Real Stories, Real Results: Shop Owner Success with The Institute’s Group Process

163 - Real Stories, Real Results: Shop Owner Success with The Institute’s Group Process
October 22, 2025 - 00:52:00
 
Show Summary:
When shop owners come together, powerful things happen. In this conversation, Jimmy Lea sits down with Jennifer Hulbert, coach and facilitator for The Institute’s Gear Performance Group, and Cindy Reason, owner of Frontline Automotive in Fairbanks, Alaska, to discuss the impact of coaching, collaboration, and group accountability on shop growth. Cindy shares her journey from mortgage lending to multi-location shop ownership, crediting the power of mentorship and peer learning for her success. Jennifer breaks down how the group process works, from financial composites to shop visits, and why accountability is the secret weapon of top-performing shops. Together, they explore how trust, training, and teamwork can reshape the reputation of the automotive industry and empower every shop to thrive.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Jennifer Hulbert, Head Facilitator & Coach for The Institute // Shop Owner of Service Plus Automotive
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:03] - Jennifer explains how “delegate and elevate” allows her to lead effectively while managing multiple roles.[00:07:04] - Cindy Reason reveals her new second shop and how she’s expanding into fleet work with FedEx and Amazon trucks.[00:08:26] - The story of how Cindy and her husband transitioned from mortgage lending and gold mining into auto repair.[00:13:20] - A turning point at a NAPA Expo where Cindy connects with a coach who helps her master shop financials.[00:15:06] - Why getting a coach early saves money and accelerates shop success.[00:17:34] - Inside look at how group visits provide honest feedback and actionable insight for shop improvement.[00:18:19] - Cindy explains how learning accountability in her group changed how she manages her team.[00:26:32] - Jennifer breaks down the full structure of the Gear Performance Group program, from shop reviews to training and composites.[00:37:15] - The value of DVIs for building customer trust and transparency, not just for selling more services.[00:48:03] - Cindy and Jennifer share how collaboration, friendship, and peer support drive industry-wide growth and elevate standards.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, my friend. It's good to see you. Good to be here with you at this fabulous Wednesday webinar Wednesday. And here we are with the Leading Edge podcast and webinar. This is the webinar portion of what we're doing. I'm so excited to be here with you. I'm so excited for our conversation today as we talk about.
Jimmy Lea: Reaching out, locking arms. Locking arms with our neighbors and our friends so that we can together elevate this industry and make it better. Jennifer is a coach and trainer here with the Institute. She's the one of the head facilitators for the Gear Performance Group and has been with the industry for a very long time.
Jimmy Lea: You have a shop in New York?
Jennifer Hulbert: I do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. What's your shop in Newark? How, what's the footprint of that look like?
Jennifer Hulbert: Service plus automotive, we have four technicians. One current location we're discussing becoming an MSO, so an exciting time for us.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. And how do you find time to run the shop as well as all the coaching and training and travel and visits that happen with the GPG?
Jimmy Lea: How do you do all that?
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, I follow the GPG advice and I delegate and elevate. So I've got a fantastic staff here that handles the majority of the day-to-day activities and elevated them into positions that they can take on that responsibility. And we're just kicking butt.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Jennifer, there is a shop I'm aware of that's for sale that you might be interested in. We're gonna have to have a conversation. I'll send you over some details on that one.
Jennifer Hulbert: Okay, sounds good.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, very cool. And joining as well. Today is Cindy Riesen. Cindy is from Alaska, the great state of Alaska.
Jimmy Lea: Absolutely gorgeous. I was there in February, which, that's the cold time, Cindy. It's a cold time. It was my birthday. In fact, I was there in February. I got snowed out in Las Vegas. Had to drive to Los Angeles to catch a flight to get up into Anchorage, Alaska. I barely made it in time for that NAPA Auto Care conference next morning.
Jimmy Lea: That's right. You remember that? I was on. I do.
Cindy Reason: Yeah. Everybody was wonder Were gonna make it. We were watching the weather and everything.
Jimmy Lea: Well, to be snowed, I was snowed out in Las Vegas. The irony is I'm stuck Vegas because it's snowing. I'm trying to go to Alaska. Oh my gosh. That was hilarious. Yeah. Cindy Frontline Automotive are, you are in Fairbanks, right?
Cindy Reason: I'm in Fairbanks, which is the center of the state when we're considered the Golden, golden state. Golden city of the state. Yes. So the golden heart of Alaska.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Well, here I was there in February and it was gorgeous. I was. So I've gotta get there in the summer when things are blooming because if it's gorgeous, when there's snow everywhere and the trees are there, it's gotta be just outstanding in the summer
Cindy Reason: and you need to get into the center of the state.
Cindy Reason: Anchorage is nothing compared to. The Fairbanks area. I just, I'm a little biased, but you know.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You know, you know, there was once upon a time that I was driving a sprinter van all over the world and we had plans. We had plans. I was coming to Alaska.
Cindy Reason: And you didn't make it.
Jimmy Lea: Didn't make it. Plans got thwarted.
Jimmy Lea: But that's, yeah. When things go, you know, we make our plans and then God says,
Cindy Reason: ha's cute. I got a joke for you. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Wait until you see what's next. No, that's very cool. That's very cool. Well, I'm glad you're here. And Cindy,
Jimmy Lea: What is the current look of your shop right now? What does that look like?
Jimmy Lea: Like Jennifer's got the Fourex. Are you at?
Cindy Reason: Yep. So we are a little bit different. We've got three different buildings and our main building is where our office is and in the back of our office is our shop or is our parts room. And then the other two buildings have four bays each. And we have four technicians.
Cindy Reason: So each technician gets two bays. We have two alignment racks. You know, everything is set up so that each one runs independently.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Oh, that's great. So as a technician is working on one vehicle, they can have one on the rack. So while they're waiting on parts you're not, you're hopefully not pushing in and out all that.
Jimmy Lea: All right.
Cindy Reason: In Alaska, you know, we are at the end of the food chain basically, so it takes longer to get parts. So there's times where we're waiting three, four days to get a part. So it's nice to have that option of keeping a vehicle on the rack after it's torn down. Most of the time you always run into something when you tear it down, you think you have everything and then you tear it down and, oh, nope, I don't have this.
Cindy Reason: So,
Jimmy Lea: oh my gosh. Yeah.
Cindy Reason: It's really beneficial to have the two lifts per technician.
Jimmy Lea: That's really nice. And three to four days really in the grand scheme. It's not that long. I thought you were gonna be in like one week, two week, three week timelines.
Cindy Reason: Well, times where that happens. But we really try to, you know, source as close as possible and.
Cindy Reason: As quickly as possible.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and John I know I have a real good friend, John via automotive in San Luis Obispo, California. He has more parts in his shop than the local Napa Auto Parts store.
Cindy Reason: Oh, wow. If I only had space,
Jimmy Lea: well see. Okay. Yeah. Yep. That he has a massive building. Massive building.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I think he's 20 lifts or so, and he's open seven days a week. Oh, wow. You know, when you're open on the weekend, 'cause somebody broke down, you gotta be able to fix it. So he's got almost like one starter, one alternator of 900 million different things. That'll work. Yeah. So I wondered if your parts department, were you, are you pretty loaded or are you pretty light?
Jimmy Lea: How do you No
Cindy Reason: it's fairly light. We do a lot of chassis work here in Alaska because of our potholes. I went to Boston and Boston's worse. I never thought I'd find a place worse, but Boston was worse. Wow. Wow. But we're really known for our dirt roads, our potholes, you know, and all of that.
Cindy Reason: So we do a lot of chassis. So our chassis parts is what we hold onto here. Otherwise it's, we'll get it from our local stores.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. And is your part stores, do they keep fairly well stocked 'cause of the distance? Yeah, I would imagine they would.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's
Jimmy Lea: cool.
Jimmy Lea: Well, so I wanna go
Jimmy Lea: with
Jimmy Lea: you. I wanna go, Cindy.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, sorry,
Jimmy Lea: go ahead.
Jennifer Hulbert: Cindy's being a little humble. So they now have two locations. So this year they purchased the second location. So she
Jimmy Lea: Last month.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yes. The footprint we purchased. The second,
Jimmy Lea: is it close to.
Cindy Reason: It's four miles down the road and and it's all, it's basically the same size. Eight lifts.
Cindy Reason: I've got seven technicians over there. And it's a, primarily, we do the FedEx and. Amazon Trucks and trucks. The fleets. Yeah. We do more fleet over there. And that was my biggest reason for buying it was because it wasn't a direct competition to what we do over here at Frontline. So now I'm catering to both into different locations.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's phenomenal. So you got Frontline, a whirlwind That is a whirlwind frontline fleet and Frontline Automotive.
Cindy Reason: Yeah, well we kept, we, we kept the name of the other business, what's itseparate? Can you say? Where It's Gabe's Truck and Auto. So we're working on that one. Like I said, we just took it over September 2nd and yeah, it's been very hectic around here.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. And everybody's still friends. We're all still friends. Are everybody still happy?
Cindy Reason: Yeah. Yeah. We're still married, my husband and I.
Jimmy Lea: That's good news. That's good news. That's going in the right direction.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Well, congrats to that. We'll talk about that here in a second. I want to go back in some time here.
Jimmy Lea: 88 miles an hour. Flex Capacitor, DeLorean.
Cindy Reason: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: When did you get started in the industry and what does that look like?
Cindy Reason: We bought Frontline Automotive in 2019, no, 2017. And before that I was a mortgage loan officer and Oh, we could talk
Jimmy Lea: mortgages, Cindy.
Cindy Reason: We can no.
Jimmy Lea: I had a a season of life.
Jimmy Lea: I was a mortgage broker too. Okay. Carry on.
Cindy Reason: Yeah. And the reason I'm getting outta that is because everything changes daily. And then my husband, he was working heavy equipment at a gold mine and was gone for a month. Time. He'd gone for a month, home for two weeks, gone for a month, home for two weeks. So a friend of ours said, Hey, I know a business that's opening.
Cindy Reason: And we checked into it and got it for a seal and started off with just four bays, two technicians, one building, and grew from there.
Jimmy Lea: So you built
Cindy Reason: a second building? We were in like a strip mall type. Built four buildings all next to each other.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. And so we
Cindy Reason: just kept acquiring. So in 2020, when COVID hit the building next to us was a kids' romper room.
Cindy Reason: Okay. And they closed because they couldn't have kids in there. Yeah. And so we ended up moving over to that one. And then in 2022 the other building. The peak tenants left, and so we moved over to that one. So we ended up with three and then they demolished the one next to us. So, and then we ended up buying, so more
Jimmy Lea: parking, lot
Cindy Reason: more.
Cindy Reason: That was it. We were not willing to share our parking lot with any other tenants, so we didn't have the space for other tenant or for other tenants to have parking, so Wow. That was what us brought us around to this.
Jimmy Lea: Well, congrats. It feels like it was just a heartbeat to ago. 2017 was like two minutes ago, but it's, it
Cindy Reason: feels like it
Jimmy Lea: eight years ago.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cindy Reason: Yeah. It's hard to believe that it's been that long.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. Time flies. That is fabulous. And congrats on the expansion. It feels like, or sounds like rapid expansion.
Cindy Reason: It was, yeah. Ever since 20, since COVID, we've been expanding every two years.
Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Yeah that, that's awesome. I think I'm
Cindy Reason: done for a while.
Jimmy Lea: Oh no, you've got 24 months and then we're gonna kick it back on. Wait a second. It's October. You have 23 months.
Cindy Reason: No pressure Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: No, none. None whatsoever. But in about 11 months, we'll start looking.
Cindy Reason: Okay. You do that.
Jimmy Lea: I'll do that. Okay. Well, and congrats on the expansion. That is just absolutely phenomenal.
Jimmy Lea: I love the I love the expansion into the fleet industry. I mean, that's, so just, I mean, you're able to work on the same vehicles. You just turn 'em and burn 'em and love it and yeah. Keep on going. So, at what point along your journey here, you're coming from gold mining, heavy equipment, mortgage brokers, lot of paperwork pushing.
Jimmy Lea: You jump into automotive and discover very quickly. We're not in Kansas anymore. This is not familiar language. What did you do?
Cindy Reason: Especially for me, you know? 'cause my husband's got the. And he understands the business and all of that. So he first, he's the one who started it. He was working it, he was doing the office work.
Cindy Reason: He was teching, he was supervising, he was payroll, hr. He was doing all of it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh boy. And then
Cindy Reason: four months into it, he says, I'm gonna have to hire somebody. And I said, well, I'm not paying somebody to do something I can do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cindy Reason: So then I took. I quit my job and came over, and then I realized I've never done HR before.
Cindy Reason: I've never done payroll. I don't know what these numbers mean, you know? Yeah, I know how to read a p and l, but what does it really mean for the business? So we had gone to a NAPA convention in Vegas, did not get
Jimmy Lea: that in the one in 2020.
Jimmy Lea: The Expo
Cindy Reason: Napa Expo in 20, I think it 2020. Shortly after.
Jimmy Lea: Supposed to have it in 20, but they canceled that. And it was in 21, 22.
Cindy Reason: No, it was 2017. Okay. The year that we bought it.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Cindy Reason: And they just, they connected us. We were invited by our Napa Auto Care people. Okay. That are local here. Some of our local people here.
Cindy Reason: And got us into, we, R-L-R-L-O was presenting. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: We went to
Cindy Reason: a couple of their meetings and decided, you know, yeah, this is something that could help us. And because of the way that RLO was structured, we couldn't be in a group process because I had too many other people here locally close to me that were in the group.
Cindy Reason: Okay. But I did a one-on-one coaching with John Loeffler. He was a lifesaver. He is the reason we were able to do what we're doing every couple years because he taught us everything from our numbers to, to expand you know, to how to bring marketing. Yeah. How to, you know, bring in more customers. It was.
Cindy Reason: So one-on-one with John was extraordinary.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Cindy Reason: That was our lifesaver.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I can imagine. And Jennifer, you were worked with John Effler for quite a few years as well, didn't you?
Jennifer Hulbert: I did almost 20.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my, well, that's just a hard thing. We all
Jennifer Hulbert: miss him.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. John is we wish him well. He's doing great in the industry.
Jimmy Lea: He's still with straightaway Auto correct, I believe. Oh, good.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Doing. I don't know what he's doing with them. Jennifer, do you know
Jennifer Hulbert: he's coaching and training with them. Nice. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: Very cool. Very cool. So your advice Cindy, to anybody that's starting a shop would be get a coach as quickly as you can.
Cindy Reason: As quickly as you can. The sooner the better, because you're not gonna be wasting money if you're getting the education.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Education. Education, so important. So at what point along the road here did you get into the group? Because I think you're in group. You're in a group right now, aren't you?
Cindy Reason: Yep. I'm in Group six with Jennifer.
Jimmy Lea: Group six. Okay. Yeah,
Cindy Reason: group six, rock there.
Jimmy Lea: Definitely. And are
Jimmy Lea: we recruiting? We're trying to get more into group six. We have a couple of spaces available, maybe we do.
Jimmy Lea: So at what point were you able to transition into the group? Because there are a few others that are there in Fairbanks that are also with the institute that were also with RLO.
Jimmy Lea: What, how did that look like
Cindy Reason: when they had the summit in 2023? I think it was the 2023 summit. We went to that in Florida. Yep. And I met Jennifer there. That was my first time of meeting her. She said, oh, we've gotta get you into a group. We've gotta get you into a group. And so she did her little magic because she's the queen of magic.
Cindy Reason: She can go back into the back and do her thing. And, you know, we're here. So we got the call and saying, you know, inviting us into to one of Jennifer's groups and we jumped on it, you know, and I have no regrets whatsoever. Love our group process. It's totally different than the one-on-one.
Cindy Reason: Okay, so one-on-one. You know you're meeting with John once or twice a month depending on what he your needs are. But with the group, you're doing group visits, which I volunteered right away. I said, I want you all to come and tell me what's wrong with my business. Love it. Come share. You know, and so you get the group visits, you get the feedback from the group of what they see as your business, where your books are, where your people are, what your fa, your facility looks like.
Cindy Reason: What are your hazards? What are your goods, your bads, your ugly the, that part of the process is my favorite is getting to go and do the visiting of. The shops and seeing how other shops run their business, how they look, how they're set up, and if you come back with ideas of what you can make, little changes to yours as well to improve your business.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. So
Cindy Reason: that, that is one of the biggest features that I love about the group. Then you also have a composite partner or two? I have two. We meet every week. We go over numbers, we go over homework, we hold each other accountable. You know, we say we're gonna do this, and if it's not done, you get a tongue lashing.
Jennifer Hulbert: It's one of my favorite words in the group process is accountability. Accountability.
Cindy Reason: And that's something, you know, with a, just a daily coat or just a straight coat, you don't learn that accountability.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. And
Cindy Reason: that's something I never really understood until Jennifer and the group process.
Cindy Reason: And now I'm learning how to hold my staff accountable, and that is making a huge difference in, but then teaching me how to hold me accountable. I'm now teaching them how to hold them accountable. So it's a domino effect.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, and you have more people involved on a regular basis. So the group process typically has, you know, 16 to 20 members in it.
Jennifer Hulbert: So you're not only listening to one coach or one shop owner, you're getting the feedback of. Multiplied that by 16 times and the ideas and that the history and what they've learned going through different processes. So it's almost like having your own board of directors that you can access for any time, any problem, any question, and getting some good sound advice from multiple people.
Jennifer Hulbert: That's why the group process works so well.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah I've heard it. Where a group member will bring into the group and say, oh my gosh, there, there's this huge red tape. It's this giant mountain. It's it, I don't even know how I'm gonna get over it. This is such a big thing. Help me. I'm paralyzed. I don't know what to do.
Jimmy Lea: And the group comes together and says, okay, well, Joe had this problem two years ago, and Cindy had this problem last year, but Jennifer solved it just a couple months ago. So here's his experience. Here's this experience, here's this experience, and it brings that mountain down to a mole hill very quickly where the group can say, all right, Jimmy, we got this.
Jimmy Lea: Come on you. You've already got that solved. That was yesterday. Let's go more to do.
Cindy Reason: Let's go. Move on. Yeah, exactly.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. So even when you go visit other shops, you come away with value that says, I need to look at this in my shop, this in my shop, this in my shop, to make sure that I'm optimized as well.
Jimmy Lea: Right. How many times did you go out and visit other shops before they actually came to Alaska to visit you? Cindy?
Cindy Reason: I think there was only two shops before. One shot before me. One or two?
Jimmy Lea: One or two visits
Cindy Reason: actually, yeah. One or two visits before me. Actually, I think it was just one. Joined last, it was Eptember.
Cindy Reason: They came here and I joined in May. I think of. 23.
Jennifer Hulbert: 23. Yeah. So there would've been three.
Cindy Reason: So, so there'd been Yeah. A couple of them. Yep. But yeah it was, you know, it was nice to do that a little bit before mine so that I kind of had an idea of what I was needing to get prepared for. Also, you know, you wanna prepare, but you also want 'em to see this is the life here.
Cindy Reason: Yeah. So you don't wanna hide things or, you know, you can't hide things because they really do dive deep. Yeah. And they talk, you know, they talk to your employees and your employees usually feel pretty good about opening up to other people versus you know, yourself. So it's a really nice process.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good.
Jimmy Lea: I love. The coaching process leading into the group process because it allows you the opportunity to get your data in order to have it, yeah, pump in the right information, the right order, the right way, so that when you do get into the group process and you're opening up your books to everybody. It's not as embarrassing.
Cindy Reason: Everybody under Well, and everybody understands them.
Jimmy Lea: Everybody understands because I think there's a few shops that I can think of that it had, they gone directly into the group environment. Their p and l was so bad that Oh, yeah. Holding 'em accountable to a level that they didn't understand yet.
Jimmy Lea: It would've been embarrassing and they probably would've left the group and never come back.
Cindy Reason: Yeah I could see where that would happen and thankfully I had John working with me ahead of time, so
Jimmy Lea: yeah. So you were ready? I was already
Cindy Reason: at standards.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You were there, you were ready, prepared to go into that group environment.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And it's just awesome that they were able to come and visit your shop too when they left. How many. Items items, how much stuff did they say, Hey, look at this. What, think about this. What did your action look like when they left?
Cindy Reason: We're still a year out and I'm still working on it,
Cindy Reason: but you know, a lot of it just minor little tweaks. Sure. And I had very old buildings and so there was a lot of things that I already knew about, you know, that I have to work on. You just gotta take a little piece at a time and dwindle it down. Yes, but never looking at that action. That's the key. You gotta continually look at it and take something off of it, you know, and work your way through it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Here's a year later and you're still working on, that's phenomenal. Jennifer, talk about the G. Talk about the GPG program. Jennifer, what? What is this? Why is it so powerful? This group environment?
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, the structure of the program is exactly what Cindy had, said is we have three in-person meetings a year, so we actually go to one of the member shops.
Jennifer Hulbert: Part of that meeting, or part one of those days is evaluating the shop. So we're breaking into four different teams. Those four teams are facility, so looking at anything facility, brick and mortar. Office admin. So we're looking at office systems, SOPs, personnel files, parts handling, marketing anything that would be office related.
Jennifer Hulbert: We have an RO audit team who does a deep dive. They actually audit 50 repair orders. Looking for things like proper gross profit, percentages on parts and labor, proper documentation of the three Cs. The DVI process and following the 300% rule. And then we have a personnel team. So each member of the HO Shop team is interviewed and we're looking for things like regular communication.
Jennifer Hulbert: Do they have quarterly conversations and quarterly reviews? Do they have team meetings? Is there a path set up for success for each individual employee? Our goal shared th things of those nature just to, to help increase the overall communication with the entire shop. So. Typically when a member comes in, they're in the process for two to three years before they host a shop review.
Jennifer Hulbert: And that's done strategically to make sure that the host shop knows what they're getting into knows exactly what they're their, their expectations are, but also that we are looking and digging deep into that shop's review so we're not talking about the same items at every shop review, and that's the expectation.
Jennifer Hulbert: Is you're going through these, you know, two years, so maybe six or seven shop reviews where you're a participant and now they're coming to your shop. So you're knowing what they're looking for, and the expectation is that every time you come back from a group meeting, you're making those improvements in your shop.
Jennifer Hulbert: So we're not discussing those same things every time we go to a host shop. So that's the shop review process and the other. A day and a half of the meeting is training. So currently, Aaron Woods and I are the two group facilitators and we're providing training in every area marketing, DVI, scheduling and dispatching, employee relations, marketing financial forecasting.
Jennifer Hulbert: So we look at what our members are needing within the group process and then creating training around that need to make sure that we're elevating our members.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that.
Jennifer Hulbert: In addition to the shop review, we have a financial composite. So each member is entering their financial data into a portal, and that portal takes that information and breaks it down into many different ways.
Jennifer Hulbert: So we're measuring things like gross profit percentages, effective labor rate expense percentage to get to what our desired net profit is. And my groups know, and I say this every single time we do a composite review, the most important number to me is net profit. Yes, it matters how we get there, but if you're a 20, 25% net profit shop, then we have very small tweaks to do.
Jennifer Hulbert: If you come in and you're a 2% net profit shop, well, we've got a lot of work to do to get sales in line expenses in line and gross profit percentages in line. So we're looking at the financial data to preserve the overall financial health of the business, and then the members and the group facilitator are holding those members accountable to those standards.
Jennifer Hulbert: And like Cindy explained, you know, you have a composite partner that you're meeting with. It's required monthly. Most of our shops are meeting weekly and they're holding each other accountable. So it's not coming from the talking head at the front of the room. You know, the teacher in a classroom setting, it's coming from their peers.
Jennifer Hulbert: And their peers are doing the exact same type of work that each member is doing. So sometimes that peer-to-peer accountability can carry more weight than a facilitator or a coach because there's no excuses to give to a peer because they are doing the exact same business and the exact same work that, that the member is on a day-to-day basis.
Jennifer Hulbert: So anyone who's talked to me about the group process knows how passionate I am about it because I was a group member. I started in, I'm gonna date myself here, 2004, and with John Loeffler and RO training transitioned into the institute and had the opportunity to become a group facilitator. And I love the process because we see people coming into the process with limited knowledge on certain areas, and then watching their business grow and expand, just like Cindy's has this past year that wouldn't.
Jennifer Hulbert: Maybe it would've been possible, it probably wouldn't have been possible without the knowledge of training and coaching just quickly. Right. So the, just watching members grow and succeed and help each other is very rewarding. And one of the. The pieces that I just absolutely love the most.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. And hey, you know, and let's open this up to the audience. Anybody listening, if you've got questions for Jennifer or you got questions for Cindy, go ahead and type them in the comments and we'll address each one of your questions. Some of the questions I have you talked about some of these shops.
Jimmy Lea: Wait. Back up man. My mind's going 90 miles an hour. So I think the only correct answer is this, is, it depends, but I'm gonna pose this to both of you, Cindy and Jennifer. If a shop comes to and joins the gear performance group and they're at a two to 3% net profit area, or maybe they're at 7% net profit, how quickly do they transition from two to three to 23 or 22 or 20?
Jimmy Lea: How quickly does do they make that transition?
Jennifer Hulbert: So I'm gonna say it depends on how quickly the member is able to make the improvements they need to make. Yeah. So if you're listening to the advice, you are, you're taking the feedback and you are making the needed changes, you're gonna move pretty quickly.
Jennifer Hulbert: Again. Net profit comes from sales, gross profit and expense control. Yes. So if you are at a low level of sales and we don't have a, you know, a lot of sales being generated, we can have a very high gross profit percentage, but we're not out running our expenses 'cause we're at below a break even. So that would be an area that we would focus on marketing and the DVI process and the sales process.
Jennifer Hulbert: To make sure that we can increase our sales level. Shops coming in who have high expenses and low gross profit percentages, that's typically a pretty easy way or an easy thing to fix is, you know, we implement a parts matrix, we implement a labor matrix or a labor rate increase, and just have that increase of profitability pretty instantaneously.
Jennifer Hulbert: So it does depend on the situation, but there is an answer that the group and the facilitator can absolutely help with if the member's gonna take the feedback and they're going to enact on the information.
Jimmy Lea: And Jennifer, I think that's exactly the right answer. It does depend. It depends on the person.
Jimmy Lea: Will they implement or not.
Jimmy Lea: Are they
Jimmy Lea: just gonna gather the information, get the inspiration, and never do anything with it? Or will they do something with it? Alright. Well, and that
Jennifer Hulbert: typically doesn't last long in the group process because the members are saying, we've been there, we've done this, and what you think is going to happen, like labor rate increases.
Jimmy Lea: Right?
Jennifer Hulbert: You know? You know, there's no way I can raise my labor rate by $10. Well, I did it. I did it. I did it. Hands go up in the room and nothing happened from a customer standpoint. So yes, you can go back to your shop and do it, and now you're getting that peer-to-peer accountability and not just the a coach or a facilitator.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Cindy, do you have a story about raising your labor?
Cindy Reason: Not so much on me. But we do have a member that we have. Quite a long time, ever since I started.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. And
Cindy Reason: they finally did it. And he did it in a big jump too. It wasn't just the five or 10, I think he went up 20 bucks and he came back and said, you know, finally and said nobody said anything.
Cindy Reason: We said, see, we told to, so just do it. Yeah. So, and you know, that was the whole entire group. Coaching and giving him the power, you know, trying to give him the power to do that, it's not gonna hurt you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cindy Reason: So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. So I wanna lay a little foundation here because a lot of people will hear this and they'll say, oh, well, all I have to do is just raise my labor rate.
Jimmy Lea: Is that true, Jennifer?
Jennifer Hulbert: No. To become profitable? No. Is that all they have to do? 'cause what I also said was making sure that you're, you have good gross profit percentages and expense control. You. You can have great sales and great gp, but then spend it all out the back door and you're still left with very limited net.
Jennifer Hulbert: So part of our composite reporting is looking at, oh, I don't know how many. 40 points of expense categories. And making sure that not only is your total expense within. Range, but also each individual expense. 'cause we have benchmarks for that.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Jennifer Hulbert: So if we get a member, again, the power of the peer group is saying, well, there's no way that, that I can, you know, decrease my dues and subscriptions from this to this.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well now we have a group average of this is the amount of dollars that the majority of the group is paying, or this is the percentage of their sales that they're paying. So yes, you can, you just need to be diligent and follow. Within a certain guideline.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you really can't pull the wool over anybody's eyes.
Jimmy Lea: Everybody is marching the same direction and they're not gonna let you do it. Correct. Oh, I love it. And I also love that with the institute we'll analyze your business to say what kind of business do you want? Depending on the kind of business that you want, da, and down the road, and how many vacations do you want?
Jimmy Lea: And what kind of pay do you want? And how do you wanna take care of your employees? And what kind of benefits do you want for your employees? Okay, well here's what you're charging today. And you know, if you just tweak it a little bit, you can do it. Or maybe you have to tweak it a lot and then you can do it.
Jimmy Lea: And maybe it's a huge jump that you have to take in phases. Because it takes a little bit of time to go from wherever you are today to where you need to be to operate the business that you want to have. So it's not always, yeah, it's not always about just, oh, raise your labor rate and everything's fine.
Jimmy Lea: No. There's so much more that goes into it, but nobody ever wants to talk about that. All these coaching companies are out there and say, so, raise your labor rate. Raise your rate. Rate, charge for shop supplies and LA raise your labor rate. Okay, but there's more to it than that.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, again, some of the things that I've already mentioned are the DVI process.
Jennifer Hulbert: Are we identifying the work to be completed? Are we estimating it? Are we presenting it? And are we having success with turning that into a repair? Yes. Marketing are we attracting the right client into our shop? So it's more than just pricing, it's the overall shop management and running of the shop.
Jennifer Hulbert: You know, do you have a service advisor on the front counter who is. Is pleasant from a customer service standpoint and saying yes to customers or are they driving people away? So these are all things that we look at. We train on, we create an owner's job description for the owner to have their own self accountability with.
Jennifer Hulbert: I am going to listen to phone calls. I am gonna do DVI audits. I am going to do RO audits. I am gonna look at my profitability. So, and. And again, then you've got the peer-to-peer accountability on top of that. I'm becoming a broken record right now, but you can see how it all works all together.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it does.
Jimmy Lea: And it's talking about the DVI Jennifer, you have a DVI that you work in your shops. What are you using?
Jennifer Hulbert: I have tech metric from I using the tech metric,
Jimmy Lea: DVI as well.
Jennifer Hulbert: I am using a tech metric,
Cindy Reason: DVI.
Jimmy Lea: All right. Cindy, what are you doing?
Cindy Reason: Oh my, yeah. Tech metric as well.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. I, but here's my advice because I pounded this drum for four years with when I was with auto vitals and doing digital vehicle inspections.
Jimmy Lea: But, and here's my conclusion from it all, every shop needs to do with DBI, whatever program that you work that works in your shop, that follows your process, your procedure that you are able to implement and that the technicians will use and use and document. Is what you should implement in your shop, whether it is tech metric or auto vitals, or any of the other Ds.
Jimmy Lea: If it's a program that your shop will utilize and use and implement and follow. That's the program that's best for you.
Jennifer Hulbert: And we get the question a lot of, you know, why are we doing the DVI? It's just to sell more services.
Jimmy Lea: It's
Jennifer Hulbert: absolutely not to sell more services. It is to create trust and transparency with our customers.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. 'cause
Jennifer Hulbert: as the auto industry, we don't have the best reputation, but the trust level and the general consumer is pretty low when it comes to auto repair. So. We are absolutely innovating the industry in within the group process to make sure that we are putting out the reason why and showing the customer, this is your vehicle.
Jennifer Hulbert: We're not making this up. Here's a picture of your actual vehicle with the actual part and explanation as to why it fails. So yes, everyone, if that's your takeaway today. Get a DVI process DV in place.
Jimmy Lea: I totally agree. I've got a quick story and then I want to hear one from each of you as well. I was auditing a shop and we were looking at their dvs, and this is way back in the day, and the technician had said to, in the DVI need to replace the battery.
Jimmy Lea: No other reasons. It may have been in the description that it said three 30 cranking amps, and it was supposed to be a 600 cranking amp cold crank amp battery. And there was no picture. They had already sent it to the customer. The customer denied it. And I said to the owner, I says, Hey, you know, talk to the techs.
Jimmy Lea: If you can get a picture of the little report, the readout that shows they're really close. They're one cold snap away from being stuck in that parking lot. And the technician took a picture of that. They sent it to the client. Client approved it right then and there. Have you ever had a situation where by documenting and showing the customer, this is your vehicle, this is your part, this is what's leaking, worn, torn F freight or broken.
Jimmy Lea: This is what you are seeing. Whether you have me fix it or not doesn't matter to me, but you need to be taking care of your vehicle. Have you had a situation where you were surprised how quickly it turned around that the client did approve all the work that needed to be done to be safe on the roads?
Jimmy Lea: Cindy, you first and then Jennifer, you,
Cindy Reason: we had a customer who had just come, had his vehicle at a brand X shop. Three, four months prior to bringing it to us. And he had all new ball joints, all new sway arms, all of that kind of stuff put in at the Brand X. But he was having issues with tire wear and what have you.
Cindy Reason: So he brought it into us and we did the DVI on it and his ball joints from that, that, and, you know, you can't tell me that they're bad. I just had 'em fixed. Well, no here, you know, and so my guys took a video. Of that movement and said, this is not how it's supposed to be. And that's, you know. Then he ended up going back to the other shop, but that's just fine.
Cindy Reason: It's under warranty. Yes. But he understood that we were not trying to sell him a line. We showed him that they are bad. You need to take it back to brand X and have the warranty in.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it.
Cindy Reason: But then we get all his business after that because we showed him the DVI. Oh, I love it. We built trust that DVI built the trust.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. So he
Cindy Reason: did get it taken care of there because it was under warranty and I don't blame him, but we've had him ever since.
Jimmy Lea: And that's the Paul Harvey. I wanted to know the rest of the story. The rest of the story. The rest of the story is that he came back to you and has been a faithful customer ever since.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. I love that.
Jimmy Lea: Jennifer, you have A-A-D-V-I story.
Jennifer Hulbert: I plenty of stories similar to Cindy. The one that I tell most often is when we went from the paper forms, so the ones that the technicians would actually click off to the DVI, we started to take pictures of fluids. And I had been talk, I was a service advisor at the time, and this was long time ago.
Jennifer Hulbert: And I'd been talking to this customer that you're gonna keep the vehicle, your goal is to have the vehicle reach 250,000 miles. So these fluid services are needed. Your fluids are dirty. I never had a picture to show him.
Jimmy Lea: Yes, first
Jennifer Hulbert: digital vehicle inspection we did. We provided a picture and he calls me up and he is like, I wanna do all my fluids.
Jennifer Hulbert: Like, you know that these are the same services that we've been talking about for a year. Correct? The same exact services. Yeah. In 10 years we've been talking
Jimmy Lea: about this,
Jennifer Hulbert: but because he had a picture and he could see clean versus compromised or dirty or the test strip, then he wanted to do all the services because his vehicle needed it and because we had a picture.
Jennifer Hulbert: It was more convincing. So yes, I, and plenty of more stories like Cindy had said, where you have a video or a picture of something, you're like, oh, you know that leak is really bad. I can see it now. And there is movement in that component, so, absolutely.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yep. I had I was taking my truck into the shop.
Jimmy Lea: They were always, they always did the DVI on it, and they always, you know, everything was approved on it. And so I really took really good care of my truck. And then finally one of this times Cody comes in. He's just so excited to show me that I need new shocks. Struts all the way around on the truck 'cause they're starting to seep.
Jimmy Lea: He was like, oh look. See I have a picture. I have a picture.
Jimmy Lea: I was
Jimmy Lea: like, oh crap. Alright. Guess it's approved, but I can't pay for it today. Gotta do that on the next trip.
Jimmy Lea: I was like, $1,200. I just didn't have that on me. Oh yeah. So we, I had to come back and we did it the next. Oil change and I was driving so much that it was only another two months and I was back in for my 5,000 mile service.
Jimmy Lea: So not a big deal. But the DDIs man, that What a great tool. Build
Cindy Reason: the trust. Yeah. Build the trust between you and your customers.
Jimmy Lea: It really does. It really does. Oh, and at the shops, a lot of shops that I talk to, Jennifer, when we talk about changing all the fluid fluids. We called that a royal flush.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: All the fluids.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's phenomenal. And to have a truck go 250,000. I was 2 25 and I sold it. I shouldn't have, I really wish I would've kept it, but nevermind. Water under the bridge. We'll get another truck later.
Cindy Reason: It's gone.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: Get it back. Probably not.
Cindy Reason: You don't need it back. You don't need it back, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: No, I don't. And I'm now living in an area where it's gonna snow and I'm gonna need four wheel drive and it was a two wheel drive truck.
Cindy Reason: So yeah, no tires, two wheel drive. Yeah I drove a two wheel drive for years. So it allows, it can be done.
Cindy Reason: Yes, it can be done.
Jimmy Lea: And I've done it. Ride
Cindy Reason: tires,
Jimmy Lea: I've done it. And I had I had I had Nat King tires on it that you could put the studs into it.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: But I never did. I, it was just, it just looked like meaty mud tires on a two wheel drive truck. Oh, so much fun. So much fun. Well, I love the group process.
Jimmy Lea: I love that you have been in there, Cindy, and it has just been such a boon to your business. And Jennifer, thank you for facilitating these these group processes and meeting with these shops and the shop owners. The exponential growth is so wonderful. It's just phenomenal. I love seeing that growth.
Jimmy Lea: And these shops they really do bond together. I've seen those that are in these groups. Bond tighter than family. They would rather go on vacations with their composite partners or their group members than they would to go with their brothers or sisters or family. I've seen it. I've witnessed,
Jennifer Hulbert: well, I'm part of that when I belong to group two, I still vacation with some of the group two members, or we'll go to meetings early and just to do some social fun things.
Jennifer Hulbert: So, Cindy and I were very fortunate to get to spend some time together in California last January. Yep. Had a lot of fun on the beach and so absolutely those bonds are built and they last They are,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. And only Alaska and New York could go to California in January on the beach. I think it was
Cindy Reason: hot Capri and shorts.
Jimmy Lea: I would've froze. I'm a desert. I'm a desert guy, so I like the heat and yeah, that would've just killed me, but you guys, oh gosh, that's fun. That's very
Cindy Reason: cool. We had our feet in the water, didn't we? We did pictures to prove it.
Jimmy Lea: That is awesome. That is so cool. So cool. Very cool. Well, Jennifer and Cindy, I wanna land this plane and talk about if you were able to change anything in the industry.
Jimmy Lea: Magic wand, you can't wish for more wishes. What would you wish for? That would be a change in the industry. Jennifer, you first, and then Cindy to you,
Jennifer Hulbert: that there is power in collaboration with other shop owners. We have even people who are new to our coaching program or the group process thinking, well, I'm coming in and I don't know anything and I'm gonna be such a sponge.
Jennifer Hulbert: But yet. They turn out to be the expert in an area. So everyone has experiences that other people are going to benefit from. So don't be intimidated by the group process. Don't be intimidated by coaching. You're gonna network, you're gonna create that bond and that. Accountability between you and some other owners.
Jennifer Hulbert: So that, that would be my magic wand is to sprinkle that fairy dust all over everyone and say, come into the process, because you really do improve your business exponentially very quickly.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it's, it is eliminating the fear.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Don't be afraid. Come joy, come check it out. Come enjoy. I think once somebody attends.
Jimmy Lea: A group event. You can't get 'em away.
Cindy Reason: There's no turning back. No, there's no turning back.
Cindy Reason: Go ahead,
Jennifer Hulbert: Jen. I actually had that experience last week. We had a coaching client who was just coming to check out the group meeting at Group five. And his words at the very end is, I'm in, I am not missing this opportunity ever again. Like, I want in, I want part of this process. Nothing's gonna hold me back now.
Jennifer Hulbert: And my fear is gone.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. That is phenomenal.
Jennifer Hulbert: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That is very cool. Jennifer. Thank you. Okay.
Cindy Reason: To follow up with that, you know, on the 2023 with the expo that we went to the summit there were group members from other groups, and this is before I was in a group that actually, you know, came to over and pulled my husband and I into.
Cindy Reason: Their circle. You know, everybody is willing to help everybody whether you're in their group or not. And I've made some really close friends that are in other groups just from the summit and some of the other functions that we do, as
Jimmy Lea: I love it, a
Cindy Reason: whole collaboration. And these people are phenomenal that are in these group processes.
Cindy Reason: My biggest takeaway on it would be, I wish if I had my wish that the automotive industry did not have such a bad rap, that we didn't have to struggle and fight to prove ourselves, but. I also feel that makes us a stronger community and a stronger business because we are fighting our way through that stigmatism, you know, and proving to our community that we are here for you and we're here to take care of you in an honest, open fashion.
Cindy Reason: So I
Jimmy Lea: love that.
Cindy Reason: That's my biggest thing.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Is to spread that influence and elevate the industry as a whole. Another higher level. Oh, I love that. Thank you. Thank you. That's very powerful. Very powerful. Thank you very much, Cindy. Thank you very much, Jennifer. Really appreciate your insight and your input today as we talk about those things that are challenging us as an industry, challenging the automotive aftermarket, and those of you who are listening, whether you are here live or you're listening to the recording, if you've heard something that is fascinating and interesting and something that you would really like to grab a hold of and evaluate more.
Jimmy Lea: Come visit us at, we are the institute.com. That's the institute that's as a group. We have advisor, program managers, program coaching programs, gear programs group programs. And then also legacy, if you're looking for legacy like Cindy and Jennifer are at expanding the Kingdom and becoming a multiple shop operator.
Jimmy Lea: We've got programs to be able to help you out. People that have been down that path before, they can come back and guide you so that you don't make the same mistakes they do. Or if you do come across those speed bumps, they're not as traumatic as you think they are. So if you're seeing hearing something here that you like, you'd like to know more, visit us at.
Jimmy Lea: We are the institute.com. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute and this is the Leading Edge podcast webinar and we'll see you guys again soon. Thank you very much. Get out your cell phones because right after this 30 seconds we're gonna show a QR code scan that QR code that'll set us up with a meeting.
Jimmy Lea: We can sit down and evaluate your business to see what the institute can do to help you elevate your business as well. We'll talk to you again soon. Jennifer, Cindy,
Jimmy Lea: thank you very much.

162 - A Coach’s Perspective: Why the Service Advisor Is the Most Important Role in the Shop

162 - A Coach’s Perspective: Why the Service Advisor Is the Most Important Role in the Shop
October 15, 2025 - 01:00:44
 
Show Summary:
Front counter, center stage. Kent Bullard and coach Aldo Gomez break down why the service advisor is the shop’s heartbeat, fielding fires, translating tech talk, and guiding customers with clarity. Aldo shares how accountability, preparation, and smart communication turn “good” into “great,” plus the simple rituals that keep him sharp under pressure. They explore preventing burnout by knowing what to do and writing everything down so nothing slips. Expect practical tactics for aligning with technicians through respect and clear expectations. Newer advisors get a confidence roadmap for earning credibility without pretending to be the expert. The episode closes with how peer groups and roundtables build options, not excuses, so advisors can act with calm and consistency.
 
Host(s):
Kent Bullard, COO of The Institute
 
Guest(s):
Aldo Gomez, Coach at The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:02:20] – Aldo describes the service advisor as the hub of information connecting customers, technicians, and owners.[00:04:28] – The difference between good and great advisors comes down to initiative and continuous learning.[00:06:08] – Aldo recalls practicing service scripts in his parts-room days, long before he became an advisor.[00:08:32] – Great advisors take accountability instead of blaming customers or circumstances.[00:13:33] – Advisors get “tired” when they don’t know what to do—clarity and process prevent burnout.[00:17:09] – Aldo’s daily rituals and note systems keep him organized and confident at the counter.[00:20:44] – “If it’s not written down, it didn’t happen.” How documentation builds clear communication.[00:25:47] – Appreciation and empathy are key to getting technicians to collaborate.[00:31:41] – Small habits like greeting customers warmly and staying physically healthy make lasting impacts.[00:49:30] – Advice for young advisors on building credibility and confidence with customers.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Kent Bullard: Hello everybody. I'm Kent Bullard and I can't tell you how excited I am to host this week's leading edge. We've got quite a show today for you. We're gonna be covering why the service advisor is the most important role in the shop. That's the assertion from our very own Aldo Gomez. Today what we really wanna focus on is what the importance of the service advisor role really is.
Kent Bullard: Cover some of the real challenges that advisors face daily and how growth practice, peer learning can drive confidence, can improve performance. So I wanna start off with what's, think back or think to your team, think to your experience. What is one of the first words that comes to your mind when you think of either your experience as a service advisor and the pastor or your service advisor today?
Kent Bullard: As you guys answer that question, I'd love to introduce Aldo Gomez. He's based out of San Diego. He brings 12 years worth of real hands-on experience into the industry. Started as a shuttle driver, moving through parts and service advising, and eventually stepping into the leadership and coaching role.
Kent Bullard: What really stands out about Aldo is his grounded, practical approach. I mean, he's very pragmatic. I've loved working with him. He's lived life at the front counter and knows the daily challenges that our advisors face, and he can bring that real world understanding into every coaching conversation that he has.
Kent Bullard: He's also bilingual, which is awesome because he is fluent in both English and Spanish, which allows 'em to help even more shops, managers, and teams grow through better communication and connection. Aldo's focus areas include service advising operations, leadership and helping businesses scale. And I'm excited to dive into the, his perspective on this.
Kent Bullard: Why the service advisor truly is the most important role in the shop. So you've worked at. The front counter. You've lived it. What do you, what made you realize like how critical that advisor role really is to the shop success?
Aldo Gomez: Well, let me start by asking you, this is when something doesn't go correctly with the customer's experience at your shop, who's most likely the person that they're gonna turn to of what went wrong?
Kent Bullard: Well, that's the owner, right?
Aldo Gomez: Definitely not unless your owner is working the front counter every day.
Kent Bullard: Well, you know, we've seen it. A lot of owners tend to try to, you know, they work behind the front counter a lot of the times, but no. It's the service advisor that deals with most of these challenges face first, so to speak.
Kent Bullard: Then that's, you
Aldo Gomez: know, that's one of our question based selling methods right there, right? By asking a question about who would get who would be held responsible or accountable for that. And also by, if you take a step back from the service advisor position, you can see that the service advisors a natural hub of all information, whether parts are arriving for a job that they're waiting to get done, a technician wants clarification on what's the next step or what they do wanna move forward on the owner asking the service advisor or maybe congratulating the service advisor on a great profit margin that week.
Aldo Gomez: Or maybe a not so positive conversation of what happened to profit margin that week, or a customer's calling on the phone and that you just did repair work on their vehicle. They're experiencing some kind of issues with the recent repair and they want to talk to you.
Aldo Gomez: Right? So
Aldo Gomez: all of these things that are going on in the environment, you are a hub of information.
Kent Bullard: I like the idea of calling it the hub. Right. And you said a few very important things. One, just information on the customer, the vehicle what's being done on the vehicle. You talked about connection between the customer and the technician and the owner and management of the shop.
Kent Bullard: Communication between all of those crucial roles and also putting out the fires that can happen.
Aldo Gomez: Correct.
Kent Bullard: So. What do you believe in your experience? 'cause we've got really good advisors. We work with a lot of them. We also work with a lot of really great advisors. What do you think separates a good advisor from a great advisor?
Aldo Gomez: The a good from great would be how much action you take on your own, for your own satisfaction of knowing how well or how much better or efficient you wanna get at this position. So someone could be really good naturally, probably what brings you to a lot of good is that you have a really great people skills.
Aldo Gomez: You have a basic understanding of what you need to do. You're intelligent. However, sometimes that may be okay with you to just be good. To be good at it. However, if you wanna move on to great, then there's plenty of resources for you too. You just have you, that's what separates one from the other, is that one is good, is not good enough, great is what they want to be.
Kent Bullard: Can you think of maybe a time back in the day when you were kind of first in the trenches that, you know, was there an experience or situation that differentiated where you were like, Hey, and maybe you look back and go, actually, that was that defining moment where I went from being a good advisor to a great one.
Aldo Gomez: It was my eagerness to wanna be coached. I started at the, I started at the, when I was in the parts room, I really. They would, in the parts room, they would, these consultants would show up and then they would meet with each service advisor.
Aldo Gomez: And I
Aldo Gomez: remember getting a hold of their presentation of how they wanted us to answer the phone.
Aldo Gomez: Well, not me, because I was in the parts, but I saw what the service advisors got and they would leave them lying around and I would take them and I would practice the presentation myself. And I also I also really wanted to be coached by somebody. I saw them come in. I thought about how cool it was to get to learn something at work.
Aldo Gomez: So you,
Aldo Gomez: what
Kent Bullard: kind of weird personality do you have? I can't tell you. It's, it is really refreshing. And it's not uncommon actually. You know, I was just at Euro train and we had a lot of people there. I gotta tell you, the crowd there, they loved learning. And it's, it was incredible to see the conversations that they were having during lunches and then even into the night.
Kent Bullard: It was all about what the training was in, involved in how they can apply it, how they and they were kind of like weighing the pros and cons of the training. And I haven't seen that depth of like understanding from like a holistic shop's perspective. What do you think got you to have that mindset of like, I always need to be learning and growing.
Aldo Gomez: That, that's the type of person I am. You know, like there, there's a lot of times when I talk to service advisors, there's a lot that's in our control. Like, for instance, how we present an estimate. Do we know all the information? Did I begin the conversation in the best way possible? Are all of the variables that aren't really variables that are within my control?
Aldo Gomez: Am I executing them? Executing them, and doing them properly? And there's things that are out of control. Like, for instance, when if the customer says no to you, it's possible that you're not gonna make every sale a hundred percent of the sales. What you can control though, is your part of it. And by you being aware that.
Aldo Gomez: Some people are just like that. That way you don't get discouraged when things don't go your way. Right. It's, it doesn't mean everybody's like that. I would hear a lot of service advisors say things like don't, you don't even bring it up. Don't even bother bringing it up to somebody because they never buy anything.
Aldo Gomez: That's a big one. They never buy anything. And I learned, well, they don't buy anything from you. That does not mean that they won't be motivated to be held by me.
Kent Bullard: That was a nice way of saying, you're just bad at this.
Aldo Gomez: Well, no. And maybe they'll buy from someone else. Yeah, exactly. It's, I don't know that, that part, I don't know, and I don't study that part.
Aldo Gomez: I just know that they, that when people say no to me, also as a sale, as a service advisor sales person, when people say no to me too, because it also happens I can't ever blame the customer for it. It's not their fault.
Kent Bullard: Well, I think that's such an interesting point. You know, I can't tell you how many times we've had conversations or, you know, we've been speaking with shops where the people run into this excuse engine of all of the reasons why they couldn't do it.
Kent Bullard: And I wrote this down a few times. You've mentioned it three or four times, just in this short period of like, one of the things that makes, or that differentiates a good advisor from a great one is somebody who takes accountability.
Aldo Gomez: Yes,
Kent Bullard: extreme ownership, right? It's my job. I always have a choice I can make of whether or not, you know, I do this or even how I receive the feedback or the mistakes that I make and how I move forward from those things.
Kent Bullard: Am I on Absolutely. Point there?
Aldo Gomez: Yes. Yes. And be clear that as long as you do your part as well as you possibly can. Then everything else will work its way out.
Kent Bullard: I'm interested to know, 'cause I asked the question in the very beginning here, those of you who are just tuning in we're kind of looking at what do you think is a critical characteristic that makes or separates a good advisor from a great one?
Kent Bullard: And do you have great advisors in your shop? Let us know in the comments, you know, what are the characteristics you guys find make great advisors. It's funny because as we go through this, I mean, we just had the a PG group meeting and I always love those conversations. We get an opportunity to kind of go through and explore some of those pain points that these advisors encounter.
Kent Bullard: And help them kind of bridge that gap between good to great. Most advisors I think, feel caught in the middle between like the customer and the technician. What do you think, or what do you see are some of the biggest challenges that they're facing on a day-to-day
Aldo Gomez: that the service advisors are facing?
Aldo Gomez: Regard with the, in their
Kent Bullard: communications with technicians? Yeah. Or between their communications with customers. The
Aldo Gomez: not being, not having clarity in communication because the service advisor is holding back.
Kent Bullard: Can you, I wanna. Dig on that. What do you mean by holding back?
Aldo Gomez: Meaning that most specifically, when you're a service advisor your position is to be being the linchpin between the customer and the shop.
Aldo Gomez: Right? And what has to happen. So if you're not clear on your expectations from the customer and you're not clear on your expectations with your technician, most of the time you have a gut feeling that tells you that something isn't quite right. However, you may have gotten yourself into a habit of allowing it to happen too often, and then later it shows itself in different complications that don't need to happen in the process of the vehicle being there.
Kent Bullard: Yeah, I think honestly what you're hitting on, and I think I mean the question more so. A bit more practical, but I think you're really hitting on something very important here because a lot of those practical obstacles, those tangible things that we run into those friction points are really kind of a symptom of whether communication has happened and whether that communication has been clear and understood by everyone involved.
Kent Bullard: That seems like a lot to handle as a service advisor.
Aldo Gomez: It is. It, so, it's a lot to
Kent Bullard: handle
Aldo Gomez: The way to get a good handle, if you will, no pun intended, right on it, is to no know what you're gonna do, what you're supposed to do. You know, I read a great book on boxing by a coach and all, everything that he teaches about boxing.
Aldo Gomez: You could just switch whatever with the word boxing. It could be bike riding, it could be service advising, it could be parachuting. In this case it's boxing. It says a boxer only ever gets tired because he doesn't know what to do. If the boxer knows what to do, then he doesn't get tired. And you could put a service advisor in there.
Aldo Gomez: A service advisor. And what tired looks like to a service advisor is exhausted. No longer, you know, 'cause you're as a service advisor, you're up front and you're at the front counter a lot and you're a big hub of communication. It takes a lot of mental energy. Your men your brain only weighs like, what, 10% of your weight or 2% or something, but it consumes a huge amount of energy.
Aldo Gomez: So as a service advisor, you're taking on all these this information hub, and then if you don't know what you do to add to your frustration that you get more tired.
Kent Bullard: Can you explain tired or you just mean exhausted, or do you mean more of like a burnt out? Yeah, exhausted,
Aldo Gomez: burnt out. You know, I have a funny story of a service advisor that I coached, and when I first started coaching him, he said that sometimes his wife would say his wife would say, man, do you, and I thought it was a little bit rude, she would say, do you ever shut up?
Aldo Gomez: She said, do you ever shut up? And then it, and I thought to myself, well, brother you're, I don't think you're gonna be talking a whole lot anymore once you really learn to be a service advisor. Although
Kent Bullard: I told you that story in confidence.
Aldo Gomez: Okay. Sorry. It wasn't, but I didn't say any names, Kent.
Aldo Gomez: I didn't say any names. Oh, shoot. Right. Yeah. So we trained them, or I trained them and. Would you know it, he began talking a lot more to customers. And then about nine months later, he told me, he said, although my wife asked me if I'll ever talk again, if I'm ever gonna talk again.
Aldo Gomez: Right? Because he would service advise all day when you get home, because you're an actor. When you're a service advisor, it takes energy. You got, so not knowing what to do is not knowing how to handle difficult calls, not knowing how to handle the stress that comes with being a service advisor and having to order parts.
Aldo Gomez: And in with a technician, when you don't know how to do those things, they can really take the wind out of you because you don't have a you don't have a good method yet.
Kent Bullard: I, I love what Jared added here, by the way. Welcome, Jared. Welcome Andrew. Anybody out there, if you have questions or comments we'd love to hear, please join the conversation because you know, I personally believe that you'll get a lot more out of it if you communicate. But the the passion I think comes in.
Kent Bullard: But there's moments where, you know, passion, I feel motivation can be really fleeting. And you just talked about having some kind of a methodology for moving through that. What's a method that you've used or exercise often?
Aldo Gomez: Well, in my service advising days, I had a ritual about everything that I did, right?
Aldo Gomez: Meaning from cleaning my desk, organizing my things, I had one pen. I would never lose that one pen I had. Yeah, exactly. I used a one pen Anyways, so one of the, one of the things I would do is I would put tasks on a tearaway sheet of notepad, and my tasks were written down every day that I had to get done that day.
Aldo Gomez: And then I had a spiral bound notebook, and that's where I kept vin numbers, mileages color codes, all information that I may need to access later. However, between the two of those, that was my method of checking in on my list every morning to see what I had to do that day. And and then the spiral bound notebook where I could refer to it when I needed to refer to my notes.
Kent Bullard: You. I love that you had a comment that you made during our last service advisor training. I was trying to find what that is, and it had to do with I don't know. I'll find it. I just lost it. But it was, it had to do with preparation.
Kent Bullard: Right. And I think what we're talking about here is a lot of this stuff, communication the anxiety here.
Kent Bullard: The passion is all about preparation. I mean, exactly what you said is just being prepared for what's gonna happen, what we're doing, right. So that's one way. How important is preparation and what are some of the things that you should be preparing on a daily basis?
Aldo Gomez: Well, preparation could be something as basic as looking at tomorrow's schedule the day before.
Aldo Gomez: When you leave that day, or it could be something as consistent as every Tuesday at 2:00 PM review LA the last three days or the last week.
Aldo Gomez: Right. So
Aldo Gomez: even though you're reviewing, you're still preparing because if you're reviewing what has happened, you're gonna put notes in there that you need to do in the next week or not.
Aldo Gomez: There'll be notes in there from your customers that said something as they were leaving. Right. Sometimes they'll say, can you make me an appointment for next week or in two weeks as they're leaving, they may say, can you make an appointment for my daughter's car in two weeks? I'll write it down. I can review my notes.
Aldo Gomez: So preparing by reviewing your notes. 'cause they usually have information that you're gonna need to do. 'cause we all forget things.
Kent Bullard: Yeah. That's something that. I've I have a son who's severely A DHD, and I myself am and that's one of those things where it's like I if I'm not taking that extra step to either put it in my calendar or to make a note and add it to my to-do list or actionize list, then it's like it will get lost somewhere.
Kent Bullard: And so I've made it a habit to put any kind of a task or a note or any follow up just in my system. And then it's not on the burden on me to actually have that willpower and energy to remember it. I know that it's in my system that I've created, you know? I wanna go back to communication for a second here.
Kent Bullard: How can advisors improve communication between the front counter and the back of the shop? What are some strategies they can deploy?
Aldo Gomez: I, well, I'm a firm believer, and if it didn't if it's not written down, it didn't happen. That's the first thing I would say is if you didn't write it down, it didn't happen.
Aldo Gomez: I can't remember everything. And I don't expect you to remember most things that I tell you unless I write it down. And when you write it down to receive acknowledgement that whoever has received that information from you has received it from you, because sometimes it's not enough simply to write it down.
Aldo Gomez: And just leave it for somebody. You gotta make sure that that they received it. Or if you were working at a shop where you have, and I'm gonna be a little bit outdated at this point 'cause I still talk about paperwork orders and such, right? So the paperwork order is if you were to write it down on a file folder that hangs out from the wall, you would wanna monitor that paperwork that you left in there and make sure that it's moving, that it has moved.
Aldo Gomez: So
Aldo Gomez: simply write it. If you didn't write it down, it didn't happen and you must make eye contact. I think the best analogy I could use is when I was teaching my son across the street after we were bike riding, when he learned how to approach a crosswalk,
Aldo Gomez: I
Aldo Gomez: said, it doesn't mean anything unless you make eye contact, son until you make eye contact with the driver's.
Aldo Gomez: Coming towards you, hitting the sign, hitting the button and seeing the walk sign is not enough. You must make eye contact. So same thing with the work order. If you write it down, you must get acknowledgement that they received it.
Kent Bullard: I would say that's not necessarily just a paper thing. I mean, you know, there's countless of countless shops out there that are using digital systems and it's really, you know, we have a process in place.
Kent Bullard: How well are we using the process? Because a lot of that communication, the stages, the dispatch, all that can be found in like your digital system. It should be there. But whether or not somebody's actually looking there and you see that receipt or acknowledgement from the other member the technician or what it's hard to just make that assumption.
Kent Bullard: We don't wanna make assumptions because assumptions aren't clear communication. Right. I actually like what Rod had said rod Batar down there. He said, most advisors talk too much and that's counterproductive. And I think, yeah, it's the same thing with, we can over communicate sometimes. We often see service advisors, we'll talk themself out of a sale, you know, so it's not just communicating enough, but it's also, you know, communicating what's important, not just everything.
Kent Bullard: Right.
Aldo Gomez: That's correct. Yeah. The, and talking too much is typically a. A condition that is based off of the person talking isn't confident about what they're saying. So I have a, there's a great motivator. My mentor motivator of my choice is a man named Jim Rohn from the eighties, and he was an amazing speaker and he he talked about when your level of confidence in your communication, whatever you are saying, should be just the tip of the iceberg of how much you know.
Kent Bullard: I like that. How much you know, because what it's making a reference to is what you communicate is based in what you know.
Aldo Gomez: Well, what he's saying is that when you're confident, you really know a lot about whatever subject that is. Whether you're a scientist or a service advisor or a doctor or a street sweeper for that matter,
Aldo Gomez: that
Aldo Gomez: when you communicate to somebody and you're talking about what the issue is or what needs to be done, what you're communicating is just the tip of the iceberg of what you know.
Aldo Gomez: So it comes to a confidence problem. So if you have a confidence issue when you're explaining things, that's what usually causes you to talk too much because you're trying to justify something that you don't believe because you don't have confidence in it.
Kent Bullard: So. One of the things that I really like about having those kind of group sessions with the advisors is they get to be a little more vocal on some of these things that they're dealing with.
Kent Bullard: Sure. And
Kent Bullard: I, it was really funny because we had one of the members they stood up, they were bringing their agenda topic, and they asked, how do I get my advice or my technicians to do what I need them to do?
Kent Bullard: And this goes back to some of those same challenges that we face and as we're kind of itemizing this, right. Accountability, confidence, communication now we have to deal with collaboration. Right? So how do you get a technician to do what you need them to do?
Aldo Gomez: My method that I think is. Is easy enough and it's has really great results, is I would start by learning how to really appreciate what the technicians do to really respect what their job is, what they've learned to do, what they've invested in tools to do.
Aldo Gomez: Because when you can learn to appreciate what they do at the level that they do it, you know, they technicians are on their feet all day long and they're touching hot cars and dirty cars, especially when it's raining, they're wet. Right when they're wet, when they're pulling 'em into the shop, they have to know how to use all these tools.
Aldo Gomez: All these computers work all day. So sometimes when you need someone to do what you're asking them to do, you can start by appreciating what they do.
Aldo Gomez: Because needing to do is we're all here as an organization working together to get vehicles repaired and keep our customers happy. So we're all doing what we need to do. But getting people to want to do things for you is a whole different experience.
Kent Bullard: Yeah. I think, you know when we had that conversation, that discussion it, first off, I love the acknowledgement and the appreciation.
Kent Bullard: One thing we don't do enough is like, look, we don't realize we're all on the same team. If the technician isn't able to do what I need them to do, then I can't do my job and we all suffer. And it's the same thing. And we mention this, it's like, look, you have to sell. And I hate the word sell 'cause it's not really a sale.
Kent Bullard: But the way that you communicate and you present to the customers the same way that you should be communicating with the technician, here's what's needed and here's how it benefits you. How often have you taken the time to say you know, Mr. Technician, if you are giving me these, this DBI and you're giving me a better story, I can sell more of this work for you.
Kent Bullard: So you only have to you might be able to work on less vehicles, but you're now doing more work and you're gonna get paid more. And I wanna line that up for you. And at the same time, you're also kind of in a position to protect the experience that they have invested in. You know, back at the conference this last weekend, it's like, these technicians have been coming to training for 10, 15, 20 years, and they're just continually investing in knowing the new softwares, the new systems, the new vehicles, the new tools.
Kent Bullard: It's like, it's exceptionally valuable. And part of your job as a service advisor is to kind of protect that value and make sure that it's that experience is paid for by the customer through their experience. Right?
Aldo Gomez: Yes. Let me,
Aldo Gomez: let me add to that and add that if with whatever technician I was working with, I was happy with whatever level of commitment or communication they gave to me, as long as they were the facts.
Aldo Gomez: If you don't wanna write an entire story, then just gimme the facts. I can write the story. I'm not concerned about me having to take, not even an extra step, but make that step for the technician. I'm okay with it.
Aldo Gomez: So
Aldo Gomez: you can get people also to do what you are asking them to do by just getting the bare, if they're just getting a clear idea of what their bare minimum is to you.
Aldo Gomez: And if that's the bare minimum, then I can take it from there.
Kent Bullard: I think we want to kind of open that door for them, you know, and. At the same time, it's like I go back, we had a a client of mine that we worked with and they talked about this technician that was the really experienced guy can really turn out work.
Kent Bullard: But he was difficult in team meetings was, it was very abrasive with everybody. And this is where I think the value or the virtue of co of contribution is so important because I challenged them. I said, look, you've got a team meeting coming up. Go to that technician and say, Hey, you have tons of experience.
Kent Bullard: And I think that it would be really valuable for the rest of the team to hear some of that experience. I know that you guys have been struggling with such and such with these vehicles. Do you think you could bring a small presentation on your method for that and present it at the team meeting? Right.
Kent Bullard: And just, that's just a bid for connection, right? They say often, you know, in, in couples therapy and all that, what we're really looking for is to not deny bids of connection. Provide as many of those as possible. So I got a call later that day after their team meeting, and it was two of my employees came up afterwards and made the comment, I've never seen him smile.
Aldo Gomez: Ah. And
Kent Bullard: it's like, it's such a powerful thing to be like, look, if you want technicians to do what you need them to do, they need to understand how it benefits them. And they need to know that they're contributing to something greater than, you know, that, that idea of, oh, I just have to deal with this POS today.
Kent Bullard: More than that. And if we don't talk about what's more than that, then it's hard for them to buy in and to do the things that are, they would perceive as, you know, counterproductive. Right. Don't have me do this 'cause I just wanna work on the car.
Kent Bullard: With that, what do you think are, you know, we've talked about confidence, communication, contribution, accountability.
Kent Bullard: What are some of the small habits or disciplines that. Make the lasting difference for advisors.
Aldo Gomez: The my answer to that would be small things that you think are insignificant, like being thorough. Do you put all the information into the data system? It has a space for it. Do you use it? The, your your attention to things like greeting people? Are you good at it? Do you practice saying good morning or good afternoon?
Aldo Gomez: Do you practice looking jovial at the front counter? And are you really, are you representing yourself in the best way possible for yourself?
Kent Bullard: Did you have any little rituals that you would do that you would prepare for the day or, you know, you did every single day that just were, seemed innocuous to others, but to you was pivotal to kind of how you were able to show up every day?
Aldo Gomez: Sure. Well, I mean, I exercised every morning before work, right? So I always exercised and had lunch. I would bring lunch. I would never go get lunch. I would always bring lunch and I would sit at a, we had pretty good weather where I lived, so I would usually walk to the nearest park and I would enjoy my lunch, and I would read for a little bit.
Aldo Gomez: So just those two things would be our things I did every day. That I think made a huge difference.
Kent Bullard: My life. So getting a little perspective, getting some distance. But you also you must have had to prepare for that because I know a lot of advisors who go, well, I usually work through lunch.
Kent Bullard: Right. But you were able to take that time to go, Hey, I'm gonna go to the, to, to the close, the park nearby and I'm gonna have my lunch there.
Aldo Gomez: Lunch. Sure.
Kent Bullard: And this is something I think a greater conversation. 'cause I mean, we've talked, there's a reason we have the performance groups as like a regular monthly deal is that there's that consistent consistency to accountability and action.
Kent Bullard: 'cause we used to see, we do like this five day five day bootcamp. And it didn't have much follow up. This is a couple years ago, and we'd see like a big boost in performance for the advisors, but it would slowly taper off and then the owner would call us and say, well, we gotta get them back in some at some point.
Kent Bullard: And so what I'm trying to get to is like, what do you think. That, you know, so many advisors struggle to maintain some of this consistency. How can we address that? How do we fix that? How do we help that?
Aldo Gomez: Well, I think the only thing that you can do is offer help and let them know that help is available if they want to change, because you need to want to change for things to change. You have to say, like Jim Rhodes said, three magic words is, I've had enough. I've had enough. And possibly if where you're at is not where you'd like to be, then that's the most important thing that happens, that you decide to wanna make a change.
Kent Bullard: So let's go into some of the things that. Either the mindset or, so I've decided I need to change at this point because I want to be a service advisor like Aldo. I wanna be great. I'm not happy with, if I'm a service advisor, I'm not happy with the stress of the day. I'm not happy with all the fires I have to put out.
Kent Bullard: I'm not happy with the relationships and I wanna start making change. And we've started to take that first step. But what are the things that I need to start doing on either a weekly or a daily basis to start moving that needle?
Aldo Gomez: The first thing is, I would say congratulate yourself. 'cause you're halfway there already by simply being aware enough to say, I wanna change.
Aldo Gomez: You're already halfway there because you're aware of it. So you've taken a huge step in just whether it's internal or to a friend is is the the awareness. And the second thing is in the next coming days, weeks, months, is be aware of, try to take a attempt to take a third person view of yourself as if you are watching a movie.
Aldo Gomez: And you can begin to see what are the areas that you don't like about the movie that you're watching.
Kent Bullard: I like that. So what you're doing is, Hey, awesome. So happy I made the decision to, to improve. And next we want to take the time to identify and determine the areas that we can address.
Aldo Gomez: Yes.
Kent Bullard: Then from there, we look for resources.
Kent Bullard: We look for.
Aldo Gomez: Yeah. Well, the human beings are amazing. Once you want this, everything begins to show up. Right? Once you, because this might be your moment right now that you're watching the institute podcast, and at the very moment, whatever you thought of a couple of moments ago or days ago, or this is your moment of your next step, I don't know.
Aldo Gomez: I just know that for you wanting to change, that everything will come to reality for you. So it would be picking up the phone.
Kent Bullard: It's the right, it's the right mindset to have. Right? Because if you're looking for those opportunities, you are. Growth oriented, then the beliefs you have will inform those decisions and actions that align with that mindset, which are more likely to produce the results you're looking for.
Aldo Gomez: A hundred percent.
Kent Bullard: I, I I love that you mentioned that you worked out of the morning and all this, I'm trying to get back into shape as well, but even Jared was saying, you know, really feel like the next big addition to automotive culture is assisting with physical health. I actually know of a few shops who have you know, workout groups where they all get together and they exercise and they keep each other on track for good health, good diet, I think especially with a service advisor role, I think both service advisors and technicians, we have a very stressful job, a lot of complex diagnostics, a lot of people who are really upset because now they have to invest in their vehicle and it's never good news when the vehicle breaks down. And that's very stressful to balance the nuance between the technical skills and then the people skills.
Kent Bullard: Right. So you talked about your physical health. You talked about you read, so is that, and I know you're a big reader, talk to me about the practice of reading.
Aldo Gomez: Oh that this is, you know, you could say there's two types of people in the world. The person that looks up the word and the person that doesn't look up what the word means.
Aldo Gomez: So there's two different types of people. And what, when it comes to reading books, is it, I'm the type of person that likes to look up words.
Aldo Gomez: So I,
Aldo Gomez: If anything, there's so much happening when you're reading because you are reading, you're taking in the information that you need. Your mind is working to make all of this, to put all this together for you.
Aldo Gomez: You know, a lot of great books. You can visualize what's happening. And then you build vocabulary through the book. Because if you begin to look up what every mean, whatever word means, then you're becoming articulate and you're able to use less words. And when it comes to service advising, less is more.
Aldo Gomez: We just I always teach basic concepts, right? Just what the part does for the car, what happens if you don't replace it. And not being too complicated about it. Well, you need a good handle on vocabulary in order to make that more possible.
Kent Bullard: I think that's, I think that's massively important because we talked about reframes and retributions at the last meeting, and that looks like, you know, unfortunately it's gonna take us two days or three days.
Kent Bullard: And just shifting that perspective in, in your context, in your framing, in your words and saying, fortunately we can get this done in just about three days. Yeah. And it's the good thing about, it's positives a great thing about thing. Now the person on the other side is going, man, it could have taken longer than three days.
Kent Bullard: I'm so happy they're gonna get done so quickly. And being able to have that acuity or that, you know, dynamism to navigate those situations, to be able to reframe. And re attribute.
Aldo Gomez: What I was gonna say is a couple of moments ago, and part of being a service advisor is you hear everything, right? So a couple of moments ago you said maybe customers are unhappy with the news they're receiving from the shop.
Aldo Gomez: And I
Kent Bullard: even, I'm already putting it in a negative context. Context.
Aldo Gomez: Well, here here is what I'm getting at is that if you can learn to be a really great service advisor and be. Be interested in your customer and also know that there's a separation between the repair and the customer. You really learn how to make great relationships with the people and not with their cars.
Aldo Gomez: And when you have a good relationship with the person and they know that they can trust you and that you're a professional at what you do and the information you have is correct, they really don't get angry with you. They understand that this is a process the same. If you think about it, when you go somewhere and you get charged amount of money, usually if that person treats you well and you have a good experience with them, you typically don't complain about how much it costs, whatever it may be.
Aldo Gomez: And if you have a negative experience with that person, whether they're rude to you or they're rushing you, or whatever that reason may be, you will blame the price on that emotion. Of you being unhappy about it.
Kent Bullard: Yeah. It speaks to the same thing when you're talking about what's the difference between price and value.
Kent Bullard: Another one of those great conversations just to go, okay, your job is, first off, we identify what the price is. We know, you know, what we charge for our technician's time because we wanna maintain its value. Make sure that we have the proper margin on it. And we know what goes into to make margin on the parts that we sell.
Kent Bullard: 'cause ultimately we do sell parts and labor.
Kent Bullard: And so the price is the price because that's what we know we need to hit. And then it's our job as service advisors to kind of build up the value until it overcomes that price for the customer. And having that, I love that one. I think the physical health leads into mental health, right?
Kent Bullard: If your body is functioning properly, that means that you've probably got more clarity up here, or Headspace, a hundred
Aldo Gomez: percent
Kent Bullard: no stress. 'cause your joints hurt or you get easily winded when you go upstairs. Or brush your teeth, not talk about somebody else, not from personal experience. Yeah.
Kent Bullard: But all those kind of things take away from your mental acuity when you're dealing with complex situations like this. Yeah. So how do I shift the context? You know, I teach a lot about, you know, process and motivation with the team and leadership communication with the team. And it really does boil down to context.
Kent Bullard: So if you can shift the context for this, for the customer into a positive experience of Yeah, there's a problem that happened, but we are both on the same side here and we know how we can get this fixed with easily, quickly, and with as little stress as possible.
Aldo Gomez: Right? Yes, a hundred percent. Yeah.
Kent Bullard: And good news, fortunately, we can get it done in three days.
Aldo Gomez: Yeah.
Kent Bullard: The great news is, the great news is dot. I love that. Yeah. I love Rod. You're saying, you know, what would happen to cars if they weren't fixed? Good news. We have, you know, experienced technicians who can get you back on the road. And we do that. That's right. Let's take another step here.
Kent Bullard: You're one of the coaches for our advisory performance group program. What's the biggest difference that you have seen difference from advisors who just started to, advisors who've been in the program for a while?
Aldo Gomez: The advisors knew, found confidence and trust in themselves to execute on an idea or a plan in the say, in the process of helping a customer out or providing them with repairs and services.
Kent Bullard: I, this links back to earlier you'd stated, you know, most advisors are tired because, or boxers are tired because they just don't know what to do.
Kent Bullard: And I think when you've got a group of other advisors who have gone through some of these pain points and they're able to share from their experiences what I did, it gives you a lot more answers on I could do this, I could do, well, maybe answers is the wrong word. Options.
Aldo Gomez: That's right.
Kent Bullard: Having options.
Aldo Gomez: Well, think about this, is that if we wanna make a car correlation, which we, which is easy to do, is I'm 44 years old, so I'm no, no longer on the younger side. However, we have some technicians that are still older than 44 and they're so experienced that they can get through a lot more cars than maybe a technician that doesn't have all the experience yet.
Aldo Gomez: Although you would think that because someone has less ears on their body, they can move faster. But the experience is what allows you to move through more cars and not be so tired doing it. When I worked in construction many moons ago, if you were digging and you didn't know how to dig, you get way more tired than the guy that's been digging for the past 10 years.
Aldo Gomez: 'cause he knows how to, he knows how to dig properly so he doesn't get tired. And he covers more ground than you do
Kent Bullard: sharpening the ax.
Aldo Gomez: Yeah. You're just getting better at it and then you're not getting tired.
Kent Bullard: You know, it, it reminds me of Maslow's hierarchy. So we use Maslow's a lot in more of a management capacity.
Kent Bullard: But it's, you can even do some self-reflection and go, okay, am I in the safety and security part of this pyramid? And if I'm in that safety and security part, I need to speak to whatever the, that immediate next level, which is connection and community. Do I have a team around me so I don't feel alone?
Kent Bullard: And then you look to, once I'm in that community, now you're comparing, how can I contribute to that community? And so now the importance becomes how do I make myself valuable, or how do I contribute more? And that's kind of self-fulfilling. And like, I need to develop myself. And I think oftentimes we try to shoot for, especially as owners, shoot for, yeah, I wanna self-actualize you.
Kent Bullard: I want you to think about how to be the best possible version of you. You can be. But if I'm here in survival, either I'm not, you know, earning enough because I'm not doing the right things. I'm constantly dealing with emergency after emergency. So I'm being forced to live in the present. I can't. Plan for the future and adjust for the future.
Kent Bullard: It's very hard for me to go, I wanna be the best possible version 'cause I can't see what tomorrow's gonna bring. And I think what happens is when you get some of these, and it doesn't have to be in our program, it could be at some of these events or some of these conferences that you go to and just, or even online in some of the groups that we have here, just connecting with other people that are going through the same problems that you're going through can help you kind of move out of that, that just survival stage and look at how do I build success in what I'm doing?
Kent Bullard: You know? I think that bid for connection is so important. As a service advisor, even as a technician or in your team, what do you think?
Aldo Gomez: Most definitely. That all of those, that the process be in place and people be helping out with their parts. So you become a an asset, not a liability to your organization.
Kent Bullard: The this is a great, so how do I become an asset, not a liability. I think this speaks exactly to what John Beasley is saying right here, and we'll posit the question here, right? As a young service advisor, what strategies build authority and credibility with customers? So I'm seen as a trusted professional and not just the new kid at the counter.
Aldo Gomez: So, John, the great question, let me start by sometimes, or not sometimes, but the first thing is we need to establish is that as a younger service advisor, it comes with the territory. That people will give you less credibility. It does not mean it's fair. Life is sometimes fair and sometimes it's more than fair with us.
Aldo Gomez: Sometimes it's unfair. Sometimes it, when you think it's more unfair than it used to be. So as the new at the, as the new service advisor, you got a couple things working for you is that you don't have bad habits yet, right? So you don't have bad habits. You can form all the good habits and the, and to be seen with authority and credibility is what I would say to any age service advisor is be knowledge, not, you don't have to be so knowledgeable about the car part itself, however, have all the information that you need so that you can have a important conversation with your customer, with all the important information and you do understand the information such as.
Aldo Gomez: If, for instance, you were selling a alternator, you don't really need to know how an alternator spins and how it has magnets and copper that create electricity. But you may need to know that there's a reading that the technician noted that said it should be charging at 14 volts and this one's charging at 12.8.
Aldo Gomez: That you do need to know. And with that kind of basic information that gets the point across, you'll get credibility. However, again having less credibility just comes with the territory of being a younger person. You can be okay with that because that's okay, and just do the best job that you can. And remember that the person on the other side of the counter is a human being just like you.
Aldo Gomez: And they were also younger ex at whatever they were. And nobody appreciate something that you can really lean on because you're a younger technician or service advisor, sorry, is you can really lean on your eagerness. Your want to help people, they'll let you, they'll forgive you for a lot of things as long as you are really eager and wanting to be, do the best that you can.
Kent Bullard: This is one of those things we talked about, you know, over dinner and double fried mozzarella sticks was you know, one of the advisors she had said that she felt really anxious being on the spot, a little newer didn't know quite the technical aspect of it, and we kind of landed on it really isn't, it's almost freeing to get to the point of understanding where it's like, look, it's not about me.
Kent Bullard: It's not about you as a service advisor. And that is so freeing in the context that you don't have to be the expert. You have experts behind you in those bays working on those cars, and your job really is to facilitate the solution for the customer. It's not about you as a service advisor, it's about the person in front of you.
Kent Bullard: Being able to hear them, being able to listen to them, being able to facilitate the solution for them and communicate those expectations ahead of time. It has nothing to do with you. And so you can kind of take that pressure off yourself as a new service advisor. Just don't think about it 'cause you've got the ex expertise.
Kent Bullard: I mean that's how I've done a lot of this. I'm very young, but I get to lean on the expertise of all of the experienced coaches who've got, you know, 20 years on me. Right. I don't necessarily have to know all the answers. I can always go find the right answers. 'cause I know how to do that and I can facilitate the solution for you.
Kent Bullard: Yes,
Aldo Gomez: absolutely.
Kent Bullard: We're getting up at that that time. If anybody out there who's listening has any questions for us. Obviously we're gonna repost this. You can ask those questions down in the comments below and we'll keep track of that and keep answering questions for you. I urge you right now if you have questions, go ahead and post 'em now so we can answer 'em while we're live.
Kent Bullard: But I wanna kind of wrap with a few things. So we're starting our advisor roundtables for the performance group program, so that'll be an online round table for service advisors. Aldo, why is that so important to kinda have those touch bases?
Aldo Gomez: The more that you get, the more practice that you get and the more information that you receive only makes you, it only will help you in your journey to getting to wherever it is that you're going see if you, some people will go to enough events where they're okay with it, and that's as many events as they need to go to.
Aldo Gomez: There's other people that go to all the events that they can for the rest of their life because that's where they're going. And I would say if you're anywhere wanting to feel more comfortable or more confident, or answer weird or strange questions that you're not used to or get a better way to encounter with your customers when there's a disagreement or the best way to sell or provide the help the customers see the value in what you're proposing, then this is the class for you.
Aldo Gomez: Or the round table. The round
Kent Bullard: table, yeah. But speaking of classes, you know, we actually do have our service advisor intensive. It's three days of advisor training coming up December 11th through the 13th here in Ogden, Utah. And just a quick aside here, this really is we pinpointed the eight main modules that a service advisor needs to know in order to do things like improve their confidence, to gain more of your best customers, to increase your profitability, to convert more work, to complete more work.
Kent Bullard: I mean, we cover all of the position of a service advisor in that workshop or that intensive. And if you are looking for more information and how to do that, I'd love to recommend that. You can check it out at we are the institute.com/uh, service advisor intensive. And we'll probably Elena will post the link here.
Kent Bullard: But I wanna ask you this Aldo to kind of finish us out because we do have a lot of advisors that reach out and I wanna say, you know, what do you wish? Because ultimately as leaders, 'cause I'm a business owner what do you wish more shop owners or leadership understood about supporting their front counter?
Aldo Gomez: That that the, what it does is so much bigger than what you seem to be doing at that moment. That the support may come in a small way or a what you think is not even worth doing because it's insignificant. It's like dropping a pebble in a pond. You don't know how far out it's gonna go.
Kent Bullard: I love that, that one of our, one of our advisors actually mentioned that raindrops make oceans
Aldo Gomez: correct.
Kent Bullard: I think that totally leans into that.
Aldo Gomez: We have a question. Can we answer it?
Kent Bullard: We do. Hi, we've got a Mercedes spinner nerds, the demand technical questions. How would you advise to speak that lingo with them as an advisor?
Kent Bullard: Thanks. Thank you. John Iverson.
Aldo Gomez: Oh, it, it says it's Timothy, right? So, oh, Timothy. Timothy. Timothy. Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Timothy. So the. The first thing I would do is I would learn how to let the customer know that he knows more about the sprinter than you do. That's the first thing I would do. I would do that with most every car expert that I met.
Aldo Gomez: Outside of the repair world, I really like stock cars just stock the way they rolled off the factory line because I like how they look and I think that's how they were designed and built. So that's how they should stay. With that being said I didn't really get into the car world as far as car performance and such, and when I would work with customers that were performance type people, they knew much more about their cars than I did a lot more and generally a lot more.
Aldo Gomez: So normally what I would say is I would say, you know, Ken, it seems that you know more about the car than I do, and they're gonna quickly say, yes, I do. I've read everything on it. Now we've established that and now I can move on with proposing whatever the car needs.
Aldo Gomez: So
Aldo Gomez: normally when I get the first technical question I let them know that they know more about the vehicles than I do.
Aldo Gomez: So there's no need to challenge me on it because I probably won't know what you're talking about. And at that point I can go and talk to a technician or whatnot, but
Kent Bullard: you're facilitating the solution. Hey, I've got people I can trust and if you have specific questions, I can go get those from them and make sure that I get you the right answer.
Kent Bullard: 'cause again, it's not necessarily about, you know, are you the expert? You're not a technician, you're not a master. Yes,
Aldo Gomez: exactly. Yeah. You're facilitating
Kent Bullard: the
Aldo Gomez: solution, but that, but your ability to just simply shrug it off and say, it seems that you know more about the car than I do, works wonders. That's the, that's, if you learn to say that correctly, you can get that outta the way and they will forgive you and they know that you don't have the high IQ about their vehicle that you do, and then they let the rest of it just go smoothly.
Kent Bullard: I love this. I mean, this has been really fun for me. I don't know about you Alda, or the audience out there. We've learned a lot. We've learned that we should read more because language is far more important in our role than we, we truly believe that context is king, that we need to look at how we're exhibiting our confidence building communication how we're allowing our team to contribute and showing them the benefit of working together collaboratively that raindrops make oceans.
Kent Bullard: And one thing I did kind of write down on the end here is that information is not useful until it gets used. And that's one thing if you guys have learned anything from our time together today, is that, you know, any of this isn't gonna be useful to you until you go and implement and see the results of whether you know, of how you wanna execute this.
Kent Bullard: So I urge you if there is something you're excited about from our content today. Go implement it, right? And if you do have any other questions for me or for Aldo, you can reach out to us. Comments down below, we're gonna have that post available later. And if you wanna know more about what the institute does in helping you build your legacy, you can reach us at We are the institute.com.
Kent Bullard: Thank you all very much and we'll see you guys in the next one.
Aldo Gomez: See you.