The Institute’s Leading Edge Podcast

158 - From Tech to GM: Tyler Nichols on Building a Winning Shop

158 - From Tech to GM: Tyler Nichols on Building a Winning Shop
October 14, 2025 - 00:41:25
 
Show Summary:
Heat, reviews, and real talk from Stillwater set the stage as Tyler Nichols of X-tra Mile Auto Care breaks down culture, process, and growth. He shares how handwritten notes, follow-up calls, and thoughtful review responses power 4.7 stars on 371 Google reviews. Tyler traces his path from rainy-day helper to tech, advisor, and now GM under Aaron Woods. The episode dives into slow-and-steady expansion plans, including a new Stillwater facility and measured hiring. Inside the shop, a century-old former jail houses a five-bay operation with clear roles and Monday huddles. Training is a throughline: Leadership Intensive, local tech-school apprenticeships, and a rigorous “implement what you learned” habit. Tyler’s wish for the industry centers on ending apples-to-oranges price comparisons by leading with DVIs, goals-first conversations, and clear presentation.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Tyler Nichols, General Manager of X-tra Mile Auto Care
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:31] - Handwritten thank-you notes, treats in cars, and real connections with customers drive authentic five-star reviews.[00:02:44] - Tyler responds to a one-star review with empathy and ownership, calling the customer personally to rebuild trust.[00:04:12] - A rainy-day favor turns into a full-time role: Tyler shares how Aaron Woods introduced him to the automotive industry.[00:06:13] - Expansion plans include a new Stillwater facility and future growth into Tulsa or Oklahoma City, backed by M&A and HPG coaching.[00:08:23] - The shop’s unique location, a former jail, adds history and character to a five-bay layout designed for efficiency.[00:10:41] - Leadership Intensive, apprenticeships, and “Beast of the Month” recognition help the team grow personally and professionally.[00:16:49] - Tyler’s three pillars for reaching $1M: hire the right people, refine processes, and implement training immediately.[00:21:56] - A layout tweak and better communication between advisors and techs cut wasted time and boosted productivity.[00:37:30] - Tyler’s wish for the industry: end the pricing stigma and focus on transparency, safety, and value through DVIs.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. Welcome. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Tyler Nichols, and he is from X-tra Mile Autocare out of Stillwater, Oklahoma. Tyler, how the heck are you, brother?
Tyler Nichols: I am hot for October, but I'm doing good.
Jimmy Lea: Hot for October.
Jimmy Lea: I'm in Utah. We are seeing 40 degrees in the morning. What do you mean?
Tyler Nichols: It's 86 degrees here.
Jimmy Lea: No way.
Tyler Nichols: Yes, it's next week, it's gonna cool off, but
Jimmy Lea: it's, oh yeah, we're, it's coming. We're 63. That's our high today.
Tyler Nichols: But other than that, I'm doing great.
Jimmy Lea: Oh good. Good to hear. Good to hear. Oh, I'm glad that you're here with me.
Jimmy Lea: A couple of questions for you. I see 371. Business reviews, Google reviews. You are a 4.7 star shop. Doing very well, loving what you're doing. Great responses. How did you get so many reviews? Our
Tyler Nichols: advisors I can't take any credit for that, or at least not in the time I've been away from the fund desk, but now they're so good at building relationships and really making connections with their people.
Tyler Nichols: It's more than just fixing the car and getting 'em on the road. They really take their time to get to know them. Yeah, handwritten thank you notes and, you know, treats in the car after, I mean the they go so above and beyond that. It's it just makes it easy.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: That's so rad. I'm glad that your your advisors put that personalized touch with the handwritten notes that goes so far, man, that's super cool. Absolutely. That's super cool. So, are you, do you go in and do the responses to all of the Google reviews? Yes. Yes. Have you seen the most recent ones you've gotten, like in the last 21 hours?
Tyler Nichols: I still gotta get those. Okay. Five. Yes.
Jimmy Lea: So you got another five star, but then you got a one star. Did you see the one star?
Tyler Nichols: Yes, sir. Oh my gosh. Spoke, spoke with him on the phone today.
Jimmy Lea: Oh really? Oh good. So it's actually, it is a client.
Tyler Nichols: It is. And e every the one star happen. They're few and far between for us, thankfully, but they do happen.
Tyler Nichols: Whether it's our fault or not immediately, there's always something we can learn from it. So, oh, I had a great talk with him on the phone earlier. I don't ever ask him to remove a review, and we have a great talk. I, it's just, it's not why I'm calling. We just don't want anyone leaving our shop feeling that way.
Tyler Nichols: And it's really just expressing that and, you know, tell 'em we'd love to love the, a chance to earn their trust in the future. So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah, there you go. That's what you can do. And that's the exact same thing that you want to reply to on that. Review, right? So the next customer sees, oh, well these guys are human.
Jimmy Lea: They really took the time to call me up on the phone. They took the time to talk to me. They took the time on a onestar to reach out and, right, they're gonna take ownership. So that's super awesome. I applaud you. I do notice on your Yelp that it's really low, so Yelp must not be a thing there in Oklahoma.
Tyler Nichols: It's not. It's not. Go, Google's the main engine around here.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. It so is it. So is, that's really cool. So, first question is, how in the world did you get into the automotive industry?
Tyler Nichols: So, my, the owner of our shop, Aaron Woods everybody listening knows Aaron Woods.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Aaron Woods is awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Those who don't know, he is a coach with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. He is the facilitator of a few different of the gear groups. As well. The facilitator and head coach for the manager performance group. So, and yeah, he is deeply seated in his own business.
Jimmy Lea: Recently expanded by a second location.
Tyler Nichols: We're working on
Jimmy Lea: it, opening a second location. Yeah we're working on it. Working on it. Super. Awesome. Glad to hear that. That's super cool. Congratulations. That's Oh, thank you. But Aaron Woods, what? He came to you and
Tyler Nichols: said,
Jimmy Lea: Hey
Tyler Nichols: man, we. So I was not in this industry.
Tyler Nichols: I was working for a landscape company and Aaron and I had known each other through different avenues before all of this. And landscaping in Oklahoma, we get a lot of rain and a lot of days you don't get to work. And Aaron, I can't remember how it, it started with Aaron and I, but it just. You know, would you come pull a motor out of something for me?
Tyler Nichols: Well, you know, on the weekend or on a rainy day. And kind of started like that. And then he was having me help him deliver a vehicle up to northeast Oklahoma and kind of asked me, you ever thought about getting in this industry? And I was like, no. I hadn't really, I mean, I've worked on my own vehicles in the past, but never really thought about it and said, well, you know, I can offer you some work on the rainy days.
Tyler Nichols: And it, it was enough work he was offering me on rainy days that I ended up coming on full time. So I started as a technician. Then just really trial by fire, getting to really get thrown into it and learn. And worked as a technician for a few years and moved to an advisor role here.
Tyler Nichols: Worked as an advisor for two and a half years, and then luckily last I guess March of 24, I was able to move to the full-time general manager role that I'm currently doing today.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations. That's awesome. When you go to a landscaper and say, Hey, we got a roof over our head, and you can have air conditioning, right, and it becomes very attractive.
Tyler Nichols: And, you know, taking that job had no clue of the path that it could turn into. I just kind of thought, yeah, I could work on cars the rest of my life. It's, yeah, that'd be fun. And Aaron has provided a path that I could have never dreamed of making for myself. So I've been very blessed to, to have him and the team we have to be able to move to this position where I really just get to kind of help on the big picture stuff.
Tyler Nichols: So it's great.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man. That's awesome. Congratulations. So what does the path look like you, for you going forward? What does that look like?
Tyler Nichols: We're expanding we, we are taking it very slow. We're good. Very cal, very calculated. He's, yeah. We're both working in the m and A group with Mike Smith and the HPG group, the High Performance Group.
Tyler Nichols: Really making sure that the next step we make is the right step. It's calculated. So we are working on building a new location here in Stillwater to really work out any of the inefficiencies we have with our current location here. Building a great new facility. We've got a great lot, great location last year.
Tyler Nichols: So we're just working on working with the engineers and everything to get that finalized. But expansion is the move, whether that's here in Stillwater, Tulsa, Oklahoma City. We're expanding and you know, eventually working to where I'm kinda overseeing a few different locations.
Tyler Nichols: And able to, you kind of help Aaron in that way, so. Oh, I
Jimmy Lea: love it. I love it. How far is Tulsa? How far is Oklahoma City? Logistically?
Tyler Nichols: It's about 60 miles either way. So we're kind of right in the middle, so depending on which area of the city you need to go to, could be further. But to get to city limits, it's about 60, 70 miles.
Tyler Nichols: Either, either city.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's not that far. That's great. Yeah. That's phenomenal. Very cool. So what does the current layout look like of the current shop? Because I know when Aaron started, he was like two bays at the back of the back of the back of a lot.
Tyler Nichols: I got sick working in that building.
Tyler Nichols: What I, yeah, it was a lot of standing water. Lot of black mold. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I got sick working in that shop. And that's thinking back to, I, he worked in that shop a lot more than I did. That was very early. But, you know, thinking back to those days and then where it is now is, it's not to change the subject, but it's something I love to think about and it's really great to see.
Jimmy Lea: So have you been with Aaron through all this progression, through all the different shops that he's gone through?
Tyler Nichols: Yes. Oh, I've worked at every location.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congrats dude. Alright, so give us the layout of the current location. What does that look like for you?
Tyler Nichols: So we're right here in in downtown Stillwater.
Tyler Nichols: It's a really cool building, a hundred and something years old, Stillwater's original jail. So if I could move my computer, I'd show you. But our bathroom is actually the first jail cell in Stillwater, which is really cool. Oh, that's awesome. But it's for obvious reasons. It's not open to the public. But it's really cool.
Tyler Nichols: Nonetheless, it's the old school kind of dealership style open concept. We framed in an office that you can see here. Yeah. And we have five, two posts and a four post with alignment rack. It's the setup. We have three mainline technicians and a general service technician that, handles a lot of our oil changes tires, things like that. And then we have our other kind of, you know, general service technician that really helps with anything the guys need to help stay efficient. So
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it.
Tyler Nichols: Keeping everything clean, organized, keep them moving.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. And have you been able to sit down with your advisors, with your not advisors, I apologize with your GS tech.
Jimmy Lea: And even your technicians that say, all right, this is the path. This is what we want to do. This is the training we're gonna send you to. We want you to learn and to grow and to become a better technician, better human being, da.
Tyler Nichols: We have a technician that went to leadership intensive this year.
Tyler Nichols: And was great for him. We have, and he our local tech school offers a really great evening apprenticeship program where people who are full-time working can attend that and in two years earn basically their technology school degree. So a lot of people such as I, I mean, came into the industry, not through the tech school route.
Tyler Nichols: Right. Came in. So it really gives those guys a chance. Maybe that's something they always, man, I wish I would've gone that route. But he was able to do that and graduated earlier this year. And we have one of our other technicians and one of our GS techs that are also doing that program. Like, so.
Tyler Nichols: But outside of that, everyone has, we have a lot of different development discussions and making sure everyone has goals, things they're working towards, just really. Helping them as much as we can in their personal lives as well. That's very important,
Jimmy Lea: dude. I love that. So are you having I call 'em monthly meetings?
Jimmy Lea: Or monthly meetings?
Tyler Nichols: Meetings, try to weekly meetings, but monthly meetings? No. We have quick Monday morning, you know, immediate day to day. Let's go over a policy real quick. Let's audit and inspection. Let's get all, get on the same page. Love that with really me and the technicians. Then once a month we have everyone.
Tyler Nichols: Aaron comes down and hosts this meeting, and we really talk about our mission, vision. Really coming back to the context statements pulling up examples. We do our Beast of the Month. If anyone has seen our Facebook, we have a beast of the month that's pure nominated award every month.
Tyler Nichols: It's really great. It's fun. Everyone enjoys it, but. Well,
Jimmy Lea: Is that the teacher that you're nominating or is that No,
Tyler Nichols: That's a different thing. But the Beast of the Month is a peer nominated thing. We have a little trophy, really Hulk, ugly Hulk looking trophy. But just we have to give specific examples of how someone went the X-tra Mile that month.
Tyler Nichols: So, that's,
Jimmy Lea: so that's the Hulk where he's ripping his shirt and, yeah. Yep. Yeah, I gave that to my mother after she finished her chemotherapy.
Tyler Nichols: Oh, that's great.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Yeah. Again, with that. And then there was a donkey that would kick and it was like a bobblehead. So you could kick the feet and the feet would, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Super awesome. So she's cancer free. Thank heaven's, knock on wood. So are all the rest of us. I think she's like. Five and a half, five years now, five and a half years that she's been clean. So, man, it's love to hear that. Well, congrats on the beast of the month. That's really cool. Tell me about the teacher of the month.
Jimmy Lea: So I know I went onto Facebook, I saw your Facebook post, so you got a teacher of the month. Is that a normal rotating thing or is it always a teacher? What are you doing?
Tyler Nichols: We do it's monthly nominations by, from just the community. For any teachers, they think just go above and beyond really deserve that recognition.
Tyler Nichols: More than the school. Our schools around here do a great job with it anyway, but it's just an extra thing that we can offer them. So it is the community commenting on Facebook posts to nominate these teachers. And
Jimmy Lea: I love it.
Tyler Nichols: It's great. They get a free oil change with us. Just, you know, something we can offer 'em, we give 'em a coffee gift card.
Tyler Nichols: We have a really great coffee shop next door. So kind of, and then just the shout out on Facebook just to let people know who they are, what they do, and help 'em in that way.
Jimmy Lea: And if you don't know it, you need to go check out X-tra Mile Auto Care and extra, but just an X-X-T-R-A X-tra Mile auto care on Facebook.
Jimmy Lea: These guys are awesome. I love what you're doing for the teachers. And then tell me what's going on with Nate. He graduated onto a different career.
Tyler Nichols: He's leaving the industry. He, his last day was on Friday. We're happy for him. We've talked since then. I mean, it's he was with us three and a half years almost.
Tyler Nichols: I can't imagine what this company would be without his time here. Right. He was really a blessing to everything that we've done and been able to develop and the dedication he gave us. So it's really great. It super, everyone keeps asking, you know, customers keep asking. It's completely fine.
Tyler Nichols: We're happy for him. Happy for his family. Yeah. Everything's in good standing. So,
Jimmy Lea: Is he the one that went into law enforcement?
Tyler Nichols: No. No. That was
Jimmy Lea: different.
Tyler Nichols: Different advisor as well. Okay.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It was still with you guys though, right? You had no, we had
Tyler Nichols: one go to law enforcement. It's been a couple years.
Tyler Nichols: Been
Jimmy Lea: a couple years, yeah.
Tyler Nichols: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats. Congrats to Nate too. That's awesome. I love hearing a success story and a graduation and transition. Moving on to the next chapter, the next phase, right. And speaking of chapters and phases, tell me about the class of 34, your leadership, steelwater, class of 34 that you participated in.
Jimmy Lea: What did I do?
Tyler Nichols: So it's it's through the chamber here in Stillwater. It's a little organization through that leadership Stillwater. And it's a chance we have 26 people I believe, in our class, and it's a chance for us to get to know the city, get to know the chamber and things that they do get to know a lot of community members.
Tyler Nichols: And then we do a big fundraiser for a nonprofit in town. So. It's really great. There's a lot of amazing people in my group that I've had a chance to meet and and learning about the nonprofit world that I, you know, was not really exposed to before. And so through this I get to be on the board of a nonprofit in town.
Tyler Nichols: And then we're doing the fundraiser for the the other one. It's a live center here in Stillwater. If anyone local is listening. It's adult Day Services. It's a great place they have there. Adult day services. So any kind of, you know, disability or just, you know, retirees that, that need a, need, a place to, to be for the day and, you know, let their family members continue to work or anything like that.
Tyler Nichols: They do some great stuff. We fix their vans, so they do some outings get to go walk around at the lake and stuff like that. So that's, oh dude, it's a really great place.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congrats. That's really cool. It's really cool to participate in a leadership program, but then also a leadership program that continues that education with being on the board of a nonprofit.
Jimmy Lea: Now all of your chamber, all of the things that you're doing publicity wise and PR wise can include the adult daycare. Right. And you can help them out. I mean, that, that is, so that's just awesome, man. Congrats. That's really cool.
Tyler Nichols: It's been fun. November 1st. We're doing a big harvest festival.
Tyler Nichols: If anyone's seen parks and recreation it's based off of that, but it's gonna be fun.
Jimmy Lea: That's rad. That's awesome. That's awesome. So, to the big question, what do you think are three elements, principles, practices, that are keeping a shop back from a $1 million a year business?
Tyler Nichols: I think number one for me would be people.
Tyler Nichols: Okay. A lesson we learned, it took us a long time to learn. I think having the right people it seemed so obvious, but it's one of those things we didn't know until we had the right people and then we could kind of look back and it was kind of the hindsight at that point. But having the right people that are bought in that, that really care about what we're doing, that care about more than just.
Tyler Nichols: Showing up to get a paycheck. They're here for a reason fulfilled in, in multiple different ways. That, that's been really great for us. And just making sure that it's the trust thing of everyone has my back. You know, we really have that camaraderie, the culture, you know, all that all those buzzwords in the, in with that.
Tyler Nichols: But that's been one of the biggest things that, that we've done.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. People. Number one. Number one, and it's true, you know, people are your biggest asset, and a lot of businesses don't think that way. They think of people as a number a, as just a cog in a machine. Which it's true they are a cog in the machine, but they are a person and we need to treat 'em like people.
Jimmy Lea: So, congrats for that. Props to you. All right. What's next? What's number two
Tyler Nichols: processes? It's and, you know, processes and procedures, but how we conduct the biggest thing being technician, time management. Institute has an amazing course video course that you can watch for technician time management for anyone listening.
Tyler Nichols: But it's treating labor almost like a part, like it's all bulk oil. Jennifer Holbert uses that, that analogy all the time. Would you just open your oil container and let it all spill on the ground? And none of us would, but we let that happen with labor and a lot of times it's not the employee's fault it's.
Tyler Nichols: The system's fault. It's, they're not given the tools to be as efficient and as productive as they can be. So, that's been our commitment this year. We've tried really hard at building a really good workflow process and it's paying off. We're set to have the best year we've ever had.
Tyler Nichols: So it's, oh, congrats. It's working. So
Jimmy Lea: yeah, it was, what is it they say about the tech labor? It's a perishable, it's something that's on the shelf if you don't use it. Right. Every day, whatever's not used is thrown away. It's gone. It's gone. You cannot, and it's, you can't forward it. You can't carry it over and you lose more than you think.
Jimmy Lea: Really. How much do you think most shops are losing on a daily, oh my goodness. Two hours
Tyler Nichols: Probably. If in an eight hour workday. I mean, it's I guarantee a quarter of the day, whether it's tool trucks. Bathroom breaks, just how long it takes in between vehicles to figure out what am I working on next?
Tyler Nichols: Where are the keys? Where is it parked? It all, I spent like two full days in the shop watching and just told everyone what I was doing. I said, do everything the way you normally do it. And just sat there and it's, you see it. You start to see now having someone that can dedicate two days to just watching a shop is a little unrealistic.
Tyler Nichols: But we're unique in, in our circumstance that I was able to and it, you know, you fix the things and it ends up paying for itself. But
Jimmy Lea: it does. But
Tyler Nichols: It was very powerful.
Jimmy Lea: That is powerful. And I'm glad you took those two days. In fact, it reminded me, I was just in a conversation with.
Jimmy Lea: Seth Thorson at Bimmers, we went to dinner and he was talking about how if you want to create your vision, you need to check out, you need to go off grid. You need to find your zen place where you are relaxed, where inspiration and creativity will flow freely. From there, you'll be able to create your vision and your mission and your ideas for what you want to build your business to be.
Jimmy Lea: And to that same tune, you took the two days, you took the time to sharpen the tool so that you were much more effective as a team, as a shop, as an individual. I love that you did that, man. That's super cool.
Tyler Nichols: Yeah. Lot, a lot of good came from that. We were able to fix a lot of issues that weren't, you know, it's easy to look at the build hours and think it's the tech's fault, but my biggest takeaways from that time were it's us.
Tyler Nichols: It's, you know, shop inefficiencies. It's, you know, things we struggle with our location, with our layout, but a lot of processes that we were able to improve that just fixed a lot of those issues. So.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Now Tyler, I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit. As you think about those process and procedures, so you think about those two days that you were observing the flow of the shop, what is one of the biggest aha moments or one of the.
Jimmy Lea: Smallest little movements of the dial movements of the process procedure that had a big return. Not a huge, not a monumental, but it had a good, solid return. For you as a shop, what's one of those things that you observed?
Tyler Nichols: I have one, one practical answer to that, and then one that's a little bit kind of bigger thinking and maybe deeper, but, just overall layout. If, when we talk about, you know, the book Atomic Habits and you talk about habit stacking, having everything together to where it's, I do this, and then I do this versus I, I do this and then I have to walk across the shop, and then I do that, and then I walk back across the shop.
Tyler Nichols: We have a very long shotgun building here, so walking to the other end. You get grabbed, you get, you know, someone, Hey, you help me with this, or you get distracted. So really just asking what are the things we use and you know, we'll go start to finish on our process with the vehicle. What are the things we use?
Tyler Nichols: Where can we place them that it's gonna be the most efficient? And let's just put 'em there. Seat covers, formats. The key box. Let's make sure everything is where we want it to be as a team. Let them decide that. Then and that's just an easy tweak. Doesn't cost any money, it's just moving stuff around.
Tyler Nichols: So that's very easy. But the bigger picture one communication, I think probably of just if it had been communicated, man, I have to walk a lot to, to do all stuff like that. But then even just miscommunications between the advisors and the technicians, we all have it. But it creates a lot of inefficiencies that.
Tyler Nichols: Just one conversation, a text, an email however you communicate, but really could have solved a lot of our time issues without really having to do a whole lot of effort. So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Have you ever put a tachometer on some of these advisors or technicians to discover, dude, you're walking five to eight miles a day.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Let's cut that down to one, right? And then let's work on cutting it lower than one, because you shouldn't have to be walking a mile a day, right? Yep. Oh, that's good. That's really good. So the process, procedures moving the dial I love that. Probably one of the biggest that I saw at a shop was the placement of the oil filters right here.
Jimmy Lea: They had the the quick lube in bay number one, and the oil filters were over here beyond Bay four. So it was all the bulk oil. So that tech was just trekking all the way back and forth and back and forth and back and forth and back and forth. Became very quick and very easy to say, okay, the quick lube is now Bay four, and the tech saves so much time by not having to walk all the over this, right?
Jimmy Lea: So the, and you don't see that until you see that,
Tyler Nichols: right? You gotta take the time, you dedicate the time and you know, it's, there's been times I know it's not ideal, but. We have a technician that's gonna take a week vacation and, you know, if I'll step out in the shop and help out and just to keep workflow flowing and just being out there and working.
Tyler Nichols: You you see that, you know, different mindset than when I was a technician out there. So I'm seeing things from a different angle. I work out in the shop and. I pick up on those things and kind of ask the guys like, is this, does this seem like it's taken too long? Oh, yeah, it does. You know, so it's really opening up for that communication.
Tyler Nichols: I love it to where they start to find that stuff and let me know about it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. All right. Third
Tyler Nichols: item. Third thing related to training, I think. I think we're all guilty of it, but it's really implementing training. I think a lot, especially people listening to this podcast we're all on the onboard for training.
Tyler Nichols: We're all, you know, we all, anyone involved at the institute knows how amazing the training is. I think after the training. The implementation the reviewing your notes, the, whether it's technician training, advisor training or owner training. I think it's it's really reviewing everything after the fact to get an action plan in place into, so it's not the next time you go to a similar training and it's like, oh yeah, I learned that last time.
Tyler Nichols: I should, you know, should have done that. It's done. It's in place and that's the biggest thing. Even from my technician background, you go to division, which is, you know, anyone in the, around the central US knows about vision, but it's a lot of information crammed into three days and without coming back and reviewing, you're not gonna retain any of it.
Tyler Nichols: So,
Jimmy Lea: oh, that's so true. And what you're talking about there, Tyler, the vision, high Tech training and Expo is in Overland Park usually the first weekend in March. It's amazing. It's amazing. So that's a short trip for you guys, isn't it?
Tyler Nichols: Yeah, it's not far.
Jimmy Lea: No. How far of a drive? Three hours. Oh, that's really close.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So you guys have no excuses. Everybody has to go. Does the whole shop, do you shut down? Do you bring the whole shop? We have,
Tyler Nichols: yeah, we have it. It depends on the year, but we've had, and get an Airbnb it's sometimes more of a just team bonding thing more than it is. Anything. And there's amazing classes, amazing instructors.
Tyler Nichols: I've learned, you know, with coming back and reviewing and at least maybe that's how I learned it may not be everybody may, everyone may be able to retain better than I can. But it's a lot of information and whatever the training making sure that it's implemented. You have a plan to use that training.
Tyler Nichols: Otherwise, it, it's gone.
Jimmy Lea: And they say that and I believe this is true, that the teacher learns more than the student. So I love that you're talking about here, we've gone and done this training, now we're gonna implement the training. Now I'm going to train you on what I was trained, on, what I heard, so that it becomes more of my language and what I'm doing, and then you guys are also going to teach us what you learned.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. How many times have you had a tech go to a technical training and come back and say, oh my gosh, you know, if I had known this, I could have fixed that car and that car,
Tyler Nichols: right? Yep. Yeah, A lot of times, and usually it's, we need to buy this. If we need to buy this, then we need to buy this.
Tyler Nichols: But you, if you don't learn about those tools and how to use them, that's, you know, oscilloscopes for one for the technicians out there. But that's once, once you figure it out, it's. It's worth the time you spent learning it, you know, and it saves you so much time in the future. So it's one of the things of we're lucky here.
Tyler Nichols: We have L one diagnostics over in, around Tulsa, so very close to us. And they're a very good technical. Keith. Yes. Keith Perkins. Oh yeah.
Jimmy Lea: He's a rad dude, 80 miles down the road. Oh, speaking of one star reviews, he just barely got himself a one star review too. Oh no. He was so salty about it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. It's kind of funny.
Tyler Nichols: That's, you know, back to the review thing, PE people don't know that how much we take that home with us. It's the advisor too. With the add that one star it. He takes it home and thinks about it and it's. It's not, you know, it's not a light thing for us.
Jimmy Lea: No, that's right.
Jimmy Lea: I mean, you try not to take it personally. It's all business. Right. Gosh, we pour so much of our heart and soul into everything that we do, that it's hard to not take it personally.
Jimmy Lea: And it seems that in the automotive industry, it's either a one star or a five star. Five star, because you did a great job.
Jimmy Lea: It's the whisper. Wow. But it's also, yeah. Yeah. These guys are great. Always great. Always number five, you know, five star and then one star. Why? Because they moved my cup holder because they Right. Took away my air freshener because there was a smudge on the hood. Okay. You know what? You're right. We should be better at our QC and making sure there's no smudges on the hood.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much. We'll change our policy procedure. We appreciate your feedback because now we're gonna be a better shop because of what you said. Here's our number. Bring it in. We wanna make it right.
Jimmy Lea: And everything you can do to make it right, that goes so far.
Tyler Nichols: Absolutely.
Jimmy Lea: It's really good.
Jimmy Lea: All right, so your three items for taking a shop from Zero to Hero, from mediocre to magnificent is people, process, procedures, and training. Not just training, but implementing the training. And I, that's a key differentiator there that I want to point out that you said you pro, I don't, you probably did know that you said it, implementing training and
Tyler Nichols: with the thought that.
Tyler Nichols: The listeners of this podcast, they're invested in training. They're bought into training. They know the value. So if I was talking to a buddy, it would be, you need to train your people. But we're professionals here. You know, the listeners it's, we're all doing the training.
Tyler Nichols: It's really just after the training. That is really important.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love, love, love that you guys come back and train each other on what you learned from vision. Are there other trade shows that you guys are going to.
Tyler Nichols: Not so much a lot of institute stuff. I mean, like leadership intensive.
Tyler Nichols: We, we've had, yeah. Four employees now go to, so almost half of our staff is intended leadership intensive. So it was life changing for me if anyone's on the fence of going this's listening to this, but it's it's totally worth it. Oh, it's I love it. I, yeah, I was immediately, I'd love to do one with my wife.
Tyler Nichols: I'd love to do one with, you know, I did it with Aaron. So we got to kind of debrief and everything afterwards. And again, a lot of the talks afterwards. Having kind of an accountability partner coming out of it that, that you did with is great too.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. What do you guys, what kind of vehicles are you mostly working on in your shop?
Tyler Nichols: Everything.
Jimmy Lea: What makes all models? Do you do heavy duty?
Tyler Nichols: Some, we have the local FedEx fleet contract here. So a lot of suzu, NPRs box trucks, things like that.
Jimmy Lea: In January, there's a show in Dallas, Texas called HDAW, heavy Duty, a heavy duty all the heavy duty stuff. Okay. So it's like the vision of heavy duty.
Jimmy Lea: It's big, it's a big conference. You might wanna check it out in January, Dallas, Texas. Next year in September is Bimmers. I don't know if you do much Euro European work, some. Some boomers they have the top like Keith Perkins was there, and Gary Smith was there. And a bunch of these dudes that are just super, super amazing when it comes to that Euro vehicle.
Jimmy Lea: The BM bmw, Mercedes, Audis, Porsches, Lamborghinis they know how the, they're the whisperer and they can teach your technicians how to work on these vehicles and make sure that they're in top form and top. Top notch.
Tyler Nichols: Yeah, that's
Jimmy Lea: right. So check out Bimmers for next year as well. Bimmers, euro train for you in your area.
Jimmy Lea: That's, that would be awesome. Let's see what, I'm trying to think if there's anybody else in the summer. How far is Arizona from you guys? Probably a about
Tyler Nichols: a days drive. 24 hours. It's ways.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Well don't go to Arizona in June, then you'll probably melt. It's in Phoenix in June. Oh we consistently see 115 at this conference, a trade show.
Jimmy Lea: The good news is we're all indoors, so it's That's good. It can be that hot. Well, cool, man. I'm excited for your coaching, your training and reaching out. I you talk about this year being a record breaking year. Every month after month is a record breaking month. What are you looking at? What's your projections for this year?
Tyler Nichols: I think we're gonna get close to 1.8. I think we can hit it. If we would've, we had, you know, our fair share of issues like everybody. So, we're gonna get close and I think next year we'll do too.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. 1.8 this year. 2 million next year. Congrats, dude. That's a significant lift.
Jimmy Lea: Very cool. Very cool. Well, we're,
Tyler Nichols: we have the best team we've ever had, so we're really blessed.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that is good. That is good. Without
Tyler Nichols: Nate, now
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you're down to Nate. Now. You without Nate, but are you, how quickly are you gonna be able to replace him?
Tyler Nichols: We working on it. We're working on it, but very slow.
Tyler Nichols: Just like the expansion we're finding the right person. Going back to the people thing we talked about the first time we talk is not even about sales or if it's a tech. We don't talk about working on cars. It's really what do you do outside of work? What do you do for self-improvement?
Tyler Nichols: What motivates you, you know, things like that. So we're we've talked to a lot of amazing people. We're just waiting to make sure we make the right call.
Jimmy Lea: That's cool. That's really good. That's exciting. Yeah. You don't wanna put a tech on the team just 'cause he fogs a mirror. You gotta make sure he fits the company culture.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Right. Do you guys do a working day interview?
Tyler Nichols: We have we have with both positions. That really depends on the situation. Some, you know, kind of what they have to offer before that. But some, it's a great opportunity if they're not currently working. It works out great.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love it. I love that working interview. 'cause you're gonna pay 'em cash by the end of the day. I'm gonna pay you, I'm gonna pay you cash. Right. So this is a working interview, but I'm gonna pay you, right?
Tyler Nichols: Yeah. If you're here helping the team. You're taken care of.
Jimmy Lea: So does the team vote or do you vote?
Tyler Nichols: It's, we definitely get their opinion. But you know, it's funny you mentioned that, but we've had people in the shop where, and Michael Smith has talked about this a lot in HPG and things, but you get to a point in the culture where when someone is not a culture fit, the team kind of lets you know about it.
Tyler Nichols: And they're not coming to me saying, this guy has to go. But you can see it, you can feel it. Yeah, the team just kind of pushes the person out and it becomes very obvious. So it's, wow. It's really great without even having a conversation or a vote it's really understood that this is not fitting with the culture.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. So are you standing in a circle and you give it the gladiator? Thumbs up, thumbs down situation if anybody's thumbs down. Oh, sorry, dude, didn't make the cut.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. All right. Well, Kyle just Kyle Tyler, thank you for talking to me today. Is there anything else you wanted to cover before we wrap things up? Anything we didn't discuss?
Tyler Nichols: I'll mention one more thing on the people thing is another kind of phrase that's thrown around is the right person in the right seat.
Tyler Nichols: Love it. Our other advisor, Colton, we have up here, he interviewed as a technician and I, he kind of walked outta here and I called Aaron and I was like, I don't think he's a technician. Can we hire an advisor right now? Because he just, he is, and he's an amazing advisor. He caught onto it so quick.
Tyler Nichols: He's so good with his customers. So it's, that, that's another thing is just because if you're having issues or something's not working with a certain position, but you like the person, maybe there's something else. That can move into that, would, that would help everybody.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, Tyler you are one heck of a dude that, that's a great leader to be able to see the potential in somebody.
Jimmy Lea: And it just speaks to your volume of training and leadership to come back to the people. It's about the people. Props to you, bro. That's awesome. All right. Magic wand question. If you had a magic wand and you were able to wave this magic wand and you could. Grant any wish whatsoever, what would you change in the industry?
Jimmy Lea: And of course, you can't wish for more wishes.
Tyler Nichols: I think, you know, I can't think of another industry. Aaron and I were talking about this yesterday, where if your price is different than anyone else's. If you're ripping 'em off and it's no, you know, it's, there's that stigma that, I don't know what it is about the automotive industry.
Tyler Nichols: I don't think plumbers get it. You know, I don't think that concrete guys get it. It's really a thing in this industry and the pricing is its own conversation. But but I think it's probably a lot a source of, a lot of our one stars is comparison and it may not be apples to apples.
Tyler Nichols: So we, we don't know that we're comparing the same things. Everybody has their different thought of how something should be fixed. This is what we believe in, this is how we believe in doing it. So, oh yeah, that's, it's a stigma and an issue that I think all of us fight. But it'd be really helpful if we could have that resolved and that communication, you know, properly portrayed.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Yeah. It rarely is apples to apples because if you're twice the price. Or twice the, yeah, the price of what's being quoted. Chances are you've done a much more thorough diagnostic look at the vehicle to see all the belts and hoses and brackets that are broken, worn, torn, frayed, rusting.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You, it's not apples to apples. You know, we're gonna keep you safe on the road. They're just gonna replace a part,
Tyler Nichols: right? We can fix a problem or we can. Repair the vehicle to align with the goal that they have for their vehicle, with their family. And that's the biggest thing. If they're holding on this vehicle, they're keeping it, they drive soccer practice where wherever they're going, it's, we wanna make sure it's gonna continue to work.
Tyler Nichols: So, oh, a hundred percent. That's tough to explain and it's tough to show. I think it, you know, comes with time and good communication, but.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and you guys are doing digital vehicle inspections?
Tyler Nichols: We do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, so,
Tyler Nichols: and we get the goals for the vehicle up front to just know really where's your head at?
Tyler Nichols: What's your plans for the vehicle? Vehicles are not getting any cheaper, so, you know, new vehicles anyway, so, so it's very important. We know. We know what the plan is going into it before we even look at any problems.
Jimmy Lea: So That's right. That's right. So then you address what the customer brought it in for, but then you also address, here are the other items that are safety issues.
Jimmy Lea: Boom boom. Right? Policy, procedure, pictures on everything. Right. Everything you're making a recommendation for, because clients can see, they know worn, torn freight or broken, and if you show it to 'em, they make a better decision because they're more educated. Rather than a laundry list of you gotta fix this and this, and they're just thinking, dude, Tyler I drove it in.
Jimmy Lea: I'm gonna drive it out. Right? Just do the oil service. But then you show 'em, here's your shocks. They are totally blown. That's why you're bouncing down the road. And then further into the explanation, your traction is not very good either. You're gonna take a corner and it's not gonna be a good thing.
Tyler Nichols: Right. Oh, that's good. That's very important. That's back to the processes and procedures of good, a good presentation process on the 300% rule. And back to all that. But that's so important and the presentation alone of that is, can make or break, can give you a one star or a five star just on presentation.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So true. So true. With that. Tyler, thank you so much, brother. I appreciate you taking some time out and yeah, talking to me. Thanks for having me. Talking to the industry, talking to your shop, talking to your people. You're a great leader and they're lucky to have you there. I wish.
Jimmy Lea: All the best for you in your future, brother. Thank you.
Tyler Nichols: Thank you so much for talking with me.

157 - Five Real-World Challenges Every Shop Owner Is Facing (and How Billy D. Tackles Them)

157 - Five Real-World Challenges Every Shop Owner Is Facing (and How Billy D. Tackles Them)
October 16, 2025 - 00:38:22
 
Show Summary:
From sweeping shop floors at ten to running a dealership and repair operation, Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli shares how Pristine Auto Group balances retail service, used-car sales, and in-house reconditioning. He explains the technology behind his shop setup, including Autel ADAS systems and multiple scanners, and how space, tooling, and software updates shape modern repair costs. Hiring remains his toughest challenge, with big-box chains driving wage inflation, so Billy focuses on loyalty, training, and building career paths. He highlights the importance of customer education, from DVIs to explaining diagnostic time and warranty coverage. Billy also stresses networking with other shop owners to share resources and strengthen the industry. Looking ahead, he plans to develop in-house training and structured SOPs to expand into small, efficient satellite shops that maintain high standards of service and culture.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli, Owner of Pristine Service Center
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:47] - Billy’s roots: growing up in his dad’s shop, wrenching by 13, and building a career that now blends dealership and retail service.[00:03:39] - Current footprint: three techs, four lifts, Autel alignment/ADAS, and a 6,000-sq-ft warehouse next to the dealership.[00:06:34] - Volume snapshot: ~40 vehicle sales/month and 45–50 first-service visits for dealership cars, feeding the service pipeline.[00:08:42] - Hiring reality check: market distortion from chain-store wages and the gap between “paper” skills and real problem-solving.[00:10:50] - Career ladders: moving C-techs to B level through in-house training, complex work (e.g., Range Rover engine rebuilds), and clear benchmarks.[00:13:24] - Training culture: leveraging TechNet/parts-house courses and sending techs to regional events as performance rewards.[00:16:58] - OEM access barriers: programming, parts info, and right-to-repair friction that force small shops into costly workarounds.[00:21:39] - Lease pressure: commercial rent volatility and why ownership/options matter for small operators.[00:22:51] - Customer education: pricing diagnostics time, DVIs, oil-change intervals, and explaining extended-warranty limitations up front.[00:33:14] - Vision: codify SOPs, build an in-house training bench, and expand with small, process-driven satellite shops.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, my friend Jimmy Lee here with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is Billy and he is with representing the Pristine Auto Group, auto Group Y, because it's more than just auto repair. He also has a dealership, a small dealership out front as well.
Jimmy Lea: So Billy, thank you very much for joining me today.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Thank you for having me.
Jimmy Lea: Billy. I'm, I'm so excited every time I do. A podcast, I'd like to do a little bit of research to find out a little bit more about who I'm gonna be speaking with. And I was super interested to find out about your shop because it looks like you're fairly new.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. But in conversations with you, you're not that new. Tell me what, what's the history here, Billy? So I've been
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: in this business, uh, since with my dad since I was 10. I'm pretty old now. Yeah, that's sweeping the floors. Taking out the tray. Yeah. Crushing the oil filters. Okay, carry on. So, um, I've been in the automotive industry since 18.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm 47, so over 20 years. Um, I, we had a, a service shop. Just a service shop. Then we increased it to a dealership with the service shop, and we went more directions of servicing our dealer vehicles and dealer customers rather than, uh, retail. And in the past year, I've been attacking the retail up more and it's almost separating the two businesses.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But we've been in this business for over 30 years. We have all the equipment, all the all top, all the scanners you could think of, top of the line, eight dos programmers, um, but obviously they're costly.
Jimmy Lea: So you're doing all makes and all models,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: all makes
Jimmy Lea: all models. So all Euro, all Asian, all. Uh, domestic.
Jimmy Lea: You're, you're working all those vehicles? 
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. We go from rebuilding engines to even Range Rover, to regular Toyotas.
Jimmy Lea:  Oh my goodness sakes. That that is one heck of a wide swath. You've probably got $300,000 in scanners on the shelf.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yes. I spend a lot of money updating them every year. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: All that too.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh my gosh. 10 years old. You started the business. Did you start, when did you start? Did you start on the, uh, uh, sales side of automotive or on the service side of automotive service side. Okay. When did you start turning a wrench and changing oil, changing
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: pads, rotors, I wanna say by the time I was 13 I was under a car doing oil changes for, for chips for lunch.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, you wanna coke with that, change you away. Yeah, exactly. Um, I had no summers. I was, my dad would be disciplined to take me to work every summer, every day, you know, thank dad. If I'm not doing anything, I'm sitting. But, you know, good dad
Jimmy Lea: that, that work ethic. Priceless. Thank you dad. That's the key. You can't find that these days.
Jimmy Lea: No, you really can't. Oh man, I'm so, that's just amazing. Alright, so your technical background. I'm hearing a lot of school of hard knocks. It sounds like Pops threw you in the shop and said, go. Is there any technical training?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So I went to, I went to a bunch of courses obviously that our parts was, everything does.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I went to, I got my bachelor's in business, four year Bachelor's. Uh, I did that during the process. Um, and I've, I've had a couple of shops in process in between before I settled into this. Um, but all, all based with same people, not changing companies, not changing stuff like that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man, congrats. Yeah. That, that, awesome.
Jimmy Lea: And, and you're Service Bay now you're servicing retail and servicing the dealership? Yes. Your own dealership? Our own dealership,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: yes.
Jimmy Lea: Anybody else? Okay, so. How long have you been on the retail side of servicing?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: On the retail side, I wanna say for the past seven years I've been mainly on the retail side.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. On the servicing, not really turning too much wrenches myself. Um, it's, it's hard because
Jimmy Lea: you're up front now, you're now the surgeon
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: upfront. Everyone wants to speak to me, so how am I diagnosing when I'm speaking or explaining certain tech, uh, technical stuff? You know, it's not like a dealership. We have 15 people doing one job,
Jimmy Lea: right?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, this is a small operation. How many, so you have three techs, right? Mm-hmm. Three techs. How many bays? Uh,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm a warehouse that fits about 20 cars inside.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay. Yeah. How many lifts do you have? Any side then? I
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: have four lifts. Four lifts, uh, plenty of space. Do you have an alignment rack too? We have an alignment, alltel alignment rack that does the ADOS program and everything.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. Um, so we, you know, uh, I, I was in a different location a year ago. I have like seven lifts, but I moved to right next to my dealership, back to next to my dealership, same size warehouse, which, you know, we're in the process of transition.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Congratulations. That's awesome. Thank you.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So are you
Jimmy Lea: gonna add more lifts in the, so
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I, I think the top lifts I'll have is about five lifts.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. Okay. Um, just because these days you need space for these ados programmers, all these scanners. You, and once you throw these lifts, you can't move.
Jimmy Lea: No, that's right. That's right. Once they're up, they're up. Oh, man, that, that's so exciting. Yeah. That's a bright future. And taking a warehouse, converting it into an automotive repair shop.
Jimmy Lea: That, that's some props to you, that that's a heavy lift, man. Yeah,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: and, and, and it's, and it's about 6,000 square foot and it's on a main street. That was where I was lucky, right next to my dealership. And this was my, uh, this was my second shot that I got into doing my service. Before I got into the dealership side and um, and then eventually I saw the dealership side.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So I merged it and I shrunk down my service, which was a mistake while back. 'cause I lost a couple customers because I concentrated on the dealer, but my dealer grew.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So it was a
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: give and take, you know? Right, right, right. But um, through that, through all that hard time COVID happened, all that stuff, you know, and we still survived.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's the, that's the plus. Oh yeah. That is, lot of places are not surviving.
Jimmy Lea: Brother. That's awesome. Congrats. Thank you. That is so cool. Uh, what, what a challenge. How many, uh, cars do you have on the lot that are for sale right now?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: For sale? I have about
Jimmy Lea: 55. Dude, you got a big lot. Mm-hmm. That's, that's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: My, uh, uncle had a lot in Vegas and he was maybe 15 to 20, 22 would tap it out. He couldn't do any more than 22, so he really wasn't turning a lot of cars, but it was one of those buy here, pay here. I type a lot, so I, yeah, we
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: do about 40. We sales wise, 40 cars a month and then we service for the dealership about 45, 50 cars.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's just first time service. And then obviously customers bring back their cars as well.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Do you have a program that incentivizes the buyer to bring it back to you?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, so. We, since we offer a lot of, uh, extended warranties with our vehicles, yeah. Local customers are not comfortable going other places because they don't know how to use a warranty.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They feel, so they come to us naturally. Um, I, we do get free oil changes when you buy a vehicle. We have a detail shop in-house, which is attached to my service shop. Which is a good bonus that you can give someone. You do an engine, you get a free wash, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that, that's the Pristine Auto Spa.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, it's actually, it's called Pristine Auto Spa. Yeah,
Jimmy Lea: I know. I did
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: some research. I know who you're, yep, yep. We like to do everything in house where, you know, and we have a lot of networking, so I have a lot of friends of mine that are, uh, total precision, that does a high-end vehicles Mercedes rain draw.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Anything that if I've been a jam, they have the programs I, I'll just, we work together. That's the key. Networking,
Jimmy Lea: networking, uh, and, and locking arms with others in the industry. That, that's the mantra here at the institute is building a better business. This is you, helps you provide a better life for you, your employees, your, the technicians, the their families even, and a better life even for your customers and clients, which are in our, our final is better industry.
Jimmy Lea: So if we can help you build a better business, you have a better life at built a better industry for everybody. And we all lock arms together just like you're doing here. Right. That networking is critical. All right. Let's jump into, uh, some of the critical things that are facing shops today. What are the, the top five areas that you think a shop really needs to be aware of, whether they're long in the tooth or trying to start a shop up tomorrow, or maybe it's only been a year.
Jimmy Lea: What do you, what do you see as some of those challenges? For shops today, e
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: employment is the most challenging that everyone has because, you know, everyone knows how to turn a wrench, but I hate to say it, it's not old school. So turning a wrench doesn't cut it. But when you are interviewing someone, they know how to do everything until you hire them.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. And um, the problem that I've been seeing is, you know, you got these companies like, especially in Jersey, Mavis, pep Boys. Yes. They're paying their oil change people 25, $30 an hour. They only know how to do oil changes, so how am I gonna hire a top technician for affordable technician when they're paying so high for people just to do oil changes?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know? So it it, it makes it difficult for us to hire a good, affordable technician to grow with us, you know? Yeah. I, so you're getting a lot of turnovers, or they work for a mile. We need more pay because my friend works at Mavis and getting paid this, and he does half the jobs. You know, um, but they don't get the knowledge.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I've hired people from there. When the tire gets stuck, won't come off the wheel. They don't even know how to take it off. Oh my God. You know, they're, they're, we, we, we torch things. We do things to get things done. These big corporations can't do it, and these guys are losing that experience, spending time there for the next five years, you know, you're not gaining any real life experience how to solve problems.
Jimmy Lea: I heard of a technician, graduated, um, uh, had all the, the certifications that he was a, by all stretch in the imagination, a master certified technician, but uh, just outta school, he really didn't have the chops to be able to do things. And he was in one of these big boxes, still sweeping the floors and doing oil service.
Jimmy Lea: And someone like you came in and said, Hey, I've got an opportunity. Let me know what you think. Well, I'm graduating in a couple months and they've really promised me the moon here. Three months after and they hadn't delivered. He called and, uh, he has been with that shop ever since and they absolutely love him and he does a phenomenal, phenomenal work.
Jimmy Lea: You are probably gonna find somebody like that that wants to do more than just an oil change or a break job. And because you're not working weekends, which these guys were required, you're gonna be an automatic magnet for these people.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. I mean, that's the, uh, that's the goal. Um, and I do have a couple of workers that are very loyal.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. You know, they, they, they came to me, you know, they knew how to do everything, but they never worked on a Range Rover or Timing J Job. Right. But we, we taught 'em that in house, obviously, as doing it. Do you learn now they've rebuilt, they rebuilt engines on a Range Rover. That Range Rover doesn't even rebuild.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Oh my gosh. Yeah. Range Rover, you have to buy the whole block. They don't, they don't sell parts for it. Well, we know how to rebuild it in house. Congrats, obviously, you know, that makes our costs go down and we could give the service to customers that buy these Range Rovers. They're stuck with it because to change an engine is $20,000.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: The car was 10,000.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, they, the Range Rover, it's a plug and play. Mm-hmm. Engine doesn't work. Take it out and put in a new one. Mm-hmm. You're like, no, no, no. We can fix this old one. We got this. Exactly. So I agree with you, the quality of employees and, and there's a, there is a technician shortage in the industry and it might be a, a situation here, Billy, you might look at your business model and say, Hey, you know what, if I raise my door rate by 10 bucks, 15 bucks an hour.
Jimmy Lea: Maybe I take half of that and give it to the technicians. Maybe something to think
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: about. Yeah. That, that is, that is something to think about. Um, like I said, it's mainly the qualification. I don't mind paying someone if they can do what I can do.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But if I still gotta hold their hands, why am I paying you that much money?
Jimmy Lea: Well, that's a ctech. C technician, not a B technician. And, and definitely an A technician is somebody who can have the car, take the car, diagnose it, replace it, fix it, and it's ready to roll you, don't you, you qc it just to CYA cover your Yeah, yeah. Right. Uh, those C techs, man, you gotta verify everything.
Jimmy Lea: And you're like, bro, I got a job up front. I gotta do you, you need to be able to take care of this business.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Lea: Exactly. Get 'em into a B. So do you provide your technicians with a, uh, path of training?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So, um, I give them all the opportunities. Like, for example, I'm part of TechNet, um, I was part of Poncho program.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm in, uh, I just signed up with, uh, AutoZone has their program. Uh, I forget what it is. They're sending me pamphlet. They all sell, send train your, your CLA guys to trainings and stuff. I give that all to my guys for free. They can get take, they can take, they, they can get out, get out a little early to go do it if they want, you know, or they can do it at most time.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Nice. I do give them that, you know, sometimes they don't take the advantage of it, but I do give that,
Jimmy Lea: there's a show, a trade show, it's in Philadelphia, so I know it's a little drive from you. Uh, it's called Super Saturday. Technical training.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Okay. What is it called?
Jimmy Lea: Uh, it's called Super Saturday. Super Saturday.
Jimmy Lea: It's put on by the Mid-Atlantic Auto Care Association.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I gotta, I gotta look into that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, I do. Uh, how far is Philly? Is it a drive from you? It's about an hour from us. It's not too crazy, bro. That's so close. You gotta get, bring all your techs shut down the shop for those couple of days. It's, uh, like November 13th, 1415.
Jimmy Lea: You, you'd want to be there. Yeah. Your technicians would thank you for it.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: What I usually would do is I would take one with myself, and the next year I would see who gets to go next year. So this way we have a, you know, something to fight for.
Jimmy Lea: Bro. I love that. Yeah. Now it's a, a, uh, if you work performer comes, well, so yeah, you can do one of two things.
Jimmy Lea: You can either bring the guy that or the girl that performs the best, or you put a benchmark that says, anybody that performs over this level mm-hmm. Gets to go to super Saturn. And mine would
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: be, I mean, performing the best in their level. So you're not gonna compare ATech to a ctech, you know, if he improved from last year to this year, he gets go.
Jimmy Lea: Bingo. Ooh, there's another one too. It's called Tools, T-O-O-L-S. It's in April. April 29th to May 2nd in somewhere in pa. Also put on by the Mid-Atlantic Auto Care Association. Definitely look into that one as well. That one's a bit larger. Whereas Super Saturday is a bit more intimate, uh, uh, tools is, is a little bit bigger and it's growing.
Jimmy Lea: They're doing a really good job getting this going.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I would appreciate if you shoot me the
Jimmy Lea: email on some of this stuff. Oh, absolutely brother. I'll send it to you for sure. Alright. Quality employees. I, I agree with you. Technicians, uh, that's the bane of this, uh, existence because mm-hmm. Because their time is perishable.
Jimmy Lea: It goes on a shelf. You gotta book it today where it's gone. How efficient are your technicians? Uh, well that's a question for you, Billy. How do you, do you track your technicians? Do you know where they're performing?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, I, I, I do track their per job. Um, they obviously, my, my shop manager, even though I paid them, I don't pay them per job, like dealer.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It shows what jobs they did for the week. So, you know, obviously if I built someone, uh, 800 hours this month, this week, and my workers got all of it done, that means they're performing well. They're, they're doing, you know, their time. But, uh. The fact that we do, a lot of my dealership used car dealership sides.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It's hard to gauge it because a simple car comes with something simple and all of a sudden taking these screws down and stuff is hard because it's someone else's problem. We're fixing not a customer, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And obviously the dealer doesn't have deep pockets to do everything at any cost whatsoever.
Jimmy Lea: Right? Oh, so true. Basic, they gotta turn a
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: wrench and make a profit.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So a technician, each technician has 40 hours a week and. How are they performing? Are they, they're, uh, my tech 50.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They, they do over 40. The jobs that they do, they do over 40, so they're off perform well.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's, that's awesome. That is a beautiful situation for any automotive repair business.
Jimmy Lea: So congrats to you, Billy. What, what would you say is the second challenge? That you think, uh, small shops or, or even shops face today?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: E every shops, I, I think what they're facing is this technology and these dealerships being in our way, like the, the franchisees being in our way. So we, we no longer could service every car.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Like I may have the tools, but a lot of small shops aren't gonna have these tools and for them to even build up to that, it costs a lot of money. Right? Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: So
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: these new dealerships, we can't even get part numbers from these new dealers anymore because they don't wanna give it out. When we do warranty jobs, they want the part number of what part we're gonna put in before they approve the claim.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So even when we're ordering, unless I'm ordering the part, I just want an estimate. They won't gimme the part numbers these days that they know I'm gonna shop around maybe for Yeah. Uh, so that puts a difficulty on small businesses, uh, businesses like us because that's what we depend on so we can do our job.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Without getting access to dealer proprietary things like programming. We don't know what car needs, what, what programming you could be doing a RA swapping out a radio for a car and all of a sudden Chrysler says it could only be programmed by us. Yeah. So I got the job I got, so the car starts to go to, uh, Chrysler.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now the customer's like, why don't not just go to them to do it in the first place?
Jimmy Lea: Hmm.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know, so, and these accesses, one, they don't allow like, access to us. And even if they do, it's expensive. So, you know, we, we have patch through tools, you know, we call them, they program for us. You have to call and find out if they can program that part in that pro module because they don't have access to it as well.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So who has access to them except the deal. Yeah, I think that's monopolizing something, you know, more than, you know, GI giving us a chance to do all these jobs that they don't wanna do. Technically, all the cover.
Jimmy Lea: No. That's right. That's right. Yeah. It is a challenge to be all makes and all models. Have you ever thought of perhaps specializing or niching into Euros or Asians or domestics?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um,
Jimmy Lea: and it would affect your dealership side too,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: a hundred percent. So I thought of that a while back. Instead of doing that, like I told you, I partnered up with, you know, other teams that do that kind of cause that I can't have access. At least I have hand reach out for, which I recommend every. Small shops is network with their other shops around them instead of being competitors, building it together.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: 'cause there's plenty of jobs out there, you know? Yeah. Like there's no way that everyone could do everything. We don't have the tools, we don't have the pockets for it, you know, and we don't have the customers that come every day. So if I don't work on BMWs, all of 'em, what's it hurt to send it to a friend of mine that works on BMWs and we're still getting good, good reputation and you know, vice versa.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Yeah, that's good. You send it to dealers, building friends together, having locking arms together, that that's, that's paramount. I agree. Alright. What, what would you say is a third. Challenge for small business today.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, cost of operation with no control. And what I mean by no control is, for example, we do leases for our buildings five years at a clip because we're not a huge franchise.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Sure. After five years, my landlord technically can jack my, because he sees my businesses really well, double my hands. I either move, which I just built my business in here, right? Or I gotta take the hit. Um, where when you work a franchise deal, they're doing 20 years leases. Five years before the lease is up, they start negotiating.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If it's not working, they have five years to make their move. You know, where us, we just settled in. We just got the business established. Now my landlord's being greedy, there should be a little cap on. You know, you can't just, just like rent, rent, rent, uh, home, home rental. You can't just increase. Yeah, same thing with commercial.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You shouldn't be able to just increase the whatever you want. You know? You should cap, because I technically spent all this money building this business.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. You built the business, the reputation, you did all the upgrades and all the maintenance and upkeep of the property. And I gotta move because my landlord's greedy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So do you own your property or do you Um, one of 'em is
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: under contract. The other one's leased. Okay. So hopefully soon.
Jimmy Lea: Hopefully soon. Yeah, hopefully soon. But you know,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: these days. Some, someone, some news comes down, everything changes.
Jimmy Lea: It's true. Yeah, it's true. It can change at, at a moment's notice. Oh yeah.
Jimmy Lea: A lot of the leases that I've seen shops get into would be, uh, a five year lease and two to three, uh, additional five year options to renew.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: We, we have that. Um, but these new landlords with every, but after COVID, these prices jumped up. So high landlords do not. Commercial landlords don't wanna lock themselves in because what if we get another boom?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now they're stuck with me for another 10 years. Oh, 15 or 2015. Yeah. And I'm not a franchise company where they know that this is steady for the rest of their life.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If I go out, what are they gonna come after when, you know, Mavis or something like that. They can't just go out and walk away from a property, they gotta walk away from the whole business.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah. True, true. Interesting. Okay. Cost protection for operations. I like that. Uh, what, what would you say is a fourth area that shops should look at?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Uh, the shops having a problem with customers understanding repairs on their vehicle. Um, okay, so these cars are much more technology than it used to be.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know, back in the day, my dad, I remember could listen to a car and tell me, Hey, that's a valve. Now you could have an alternator issue causing a valve move. So if you. You need to diagnose this and it takes time. So, you know, time is money. So when you deliver a card to us, customer's still expecting, okay, you know what, they're gonna charge me small diagnostic and fix the problem.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But I spent a half a day diagnosing just a wire issue. How do I charge that customer a hundred dollars to fix the wire? You
Jimmy Lea: know?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Uh, it's
Jimmy Lea: $400.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. So it is half a day. It took half a day. You gotta get it approved upfront. Yeah. 400 plus then, then you got the diagnostic, you got the parts, anything you have to get.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And then you know, these customers. Don't understand. Well, you told me it's a code, you told me it's an oxygen sensor. Well, it could be. But you have a catalog come, you have other things that are tied. This is the first thing you have to change, right? Yeah. With us, they don't understand it. Dealerships, they give avail.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They have no choice. They do it, you know? Yeah. And the dealers know everything. Yeah. So it's a, it's a customer's, uh, educating the customs is a problem. You have to educate your customers before you start a job. Any
Jimmy Lea: job. Ah, I like that. What are you using to help educate your customers? Are you doing digital vehicle inspections?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I have. I have digital vehicle inspection. I have a TechNet performs a i I have a loop in my waiting room that shows what importance of timing belts are. Timing jeans are importance of break jobs, importance of regular maintenance. Right. Love it. A lot of customers, you know, these days all cars want 10,000 mile oil changes.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Well, you have a lot of timing chain issues these days. Why do you think. 10,000
Jimmy Lea: miles.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yes. So what if you did your oil change? Every 5,000, you won't have as many issues. Oh yeah. So educating the customers to that is very important. And while you're doing it, five instead of 10, you know, obviously you still gotta leave it up to them.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: 'cause the, that's what the car requires every 10. But I, I explained to them, you're gonna keep this car long term. This is what you have to do to maintain it. Otherwise you'll never be able to put it back together.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, I totally agree. My Ford F-150, I treated it like a Honda. 5,000 miles full synthetic, 225,000 miles on it.
Jimmy Lea: I sold it and I shouldn't have, I should have kept it.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I'm telling you, some of these older ones are much better than these newer ones.
Jimmy Lea: 2012 Ford F-150 V eight had the good transit. My
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: dad does nothing but put premium on any car he drives.
Jimmy Lea: Right. I
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: agree. I agree too. If you don't have a heavy foot, you're saving
Jimmy Lea: money on miles.
Jimmy Lea: Amen. Amen. Yeah. Cost repairs. Uh, so customer, it's, it's all about the customer's understanding. They need to understand. What it is that you're talking about. And, and you, you come onto their side of the conversation. So they're, they're looking at the car saying, oh, it's the car's fault. It's not your fault anymore.
Jimmy Lea: It's the car's fault.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. So, so that's what that, so I pretty much direct them into understanding, you know, you, you, you, you, you buy something, you gotta maintain something. If you wanna keep it long term, if you're leasing something, I mean, it's up to you. But what if you get stuck with the car and you don't maintain it?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You know now, now you have the junk and the dealer still gets his money, you know? Yep. So at the end of the day, you wanna drive something. Spending a little extra now saves you a lot more at the long run. Right. Um, and these key customers get, you know, they get these extended warranty service contracts.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Understand how they work. They come to us thinking it's bumper to bumper coverage, and then now once I give 'em a bill for additional bill, they're like, why is this? You have to educate them prior to the job because if you don't. At the end of the job, they're gonna get upset even though you did a great job because they didn't understand that they had to pay out of pocket and why they're paying out of pocket.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And it's not your fault, it's the service contract that they bought. Yeah. And a lot of people blame the service contract, know the service contract, know how to explain their service contract to the customer, and explaining what can go wrong during the process that they might be responsible for a bill.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And it's not your fault.
Jimmy Lea: No. No. It's not your fault. Oh. That's what I
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: mean by customers understanding repairs.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because you didn't build it, break it or buy it. Exactly. Customers, they're the ones that gotta work with. Exactly. You know,
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: they, they buy the car, they don't maintain it. They think we're magicians.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Like you got a magic wand, you can just fix everything. All the smog has gone out of the car.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Good luck. Alright. What, what would be a, a fifth challenge you see that's facing a lot of shops these days.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Um, like, uh, it's, it's always gonna be mainly expenses. Like everything's, equipment's getting expensive and you need these, back in the day, you didn't need as many equipments to do the same job.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Now you need five equipments to do the same job on three different cars, you know? Um, so it's not as standard as vehicles as they used to be. Yeah, so all this is hard for someone starting a new business. What tools do I buy? What's the important tools? You know, back in the day one scanner range tool, you could do almost anything.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah, almost, almost now. Almost anything. Now you need two, two tools to want to scan your car and want to scan your tire sensors and program 'em, you know? And these are regular maintenances. Yes. So what if you don't have, what if you don't have those two tools? If you do, you gotta update them. You know, spending $1,600 a a year, it's not much.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But a small shop, it might be,
Jimmy Lea: you know, it adds up quick too, Billy. It adds up really fast. 'cause that's just one of the scanners you have. And how many scanners do you have? I have five. Scanners and I, I have it and say it's 2000 per year. It is 10 grand.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm. And then, and then I also have a patch through that, uh, that allows me to go through Snap-on to be able to program other vehicles.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That alone was 10 grand for the computer. Yep. And, and I really, it's pretty much a screen that connects someone else to another for 10 grand. I mean, I could have done that with my laptop,
Jimmy Lea: right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But these are expensive stuff for any shop. And an established shop might be able to build it into their, uh, portfolio slowly, you know, as, because they got customers coming already, a, a mom and pop that has a two big garage.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: He's gotta be very, like you said, pick either A, a, a a a. A model to work on, specialize in something. Mm-hmm. And, and find out what those, that those vehicles need minimum to be able to specialize in them. You know, you still need minimum computers, minimum, uh, you know, maybe not five different computers, but two, you know, you need certain and, um, sort of some space to program these.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Like if you're doing ADOS programming, forget it, you know, and I believe they charge here, each sensor's about $350 per program. So in a vehicle, there's maybe two sensors, three sensors, you know, so you're talking about just the program was like $900 and same at dealers, you know. Oh yeah. It's not even, uh, it's very expensive.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And, and I didn't realize why until, you know, since I was able to buy the equipment, realized, oh wow, I need a lot of space. Yeah. So you dedicate a lot of space for these programming. So how can you not, how can you charge minimum when you're taking up so much space?
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, yeah. I was just talking to, um, Matt from Long Meadow Garage.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, he is a small two bay garage, three technicians. He's doing about 1.6 million a year, and he's working in that niche market of Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Bentley. And all those scan tools, they are not cheap, they're expensive and he has to maintain 'em all as well. He does do all makes and all models, so he'll do all the domestic and the foreign, yeah, the import.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, but he does specialize in this higher level of, of, of car, which is interesting because it's a two bay gas station. Mm-hmm.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I mean, I have a friend of, my cousin of mine actually has Zach's garage, same thing, two Bay garage. He stopped doing all big jobs. Because he, he was able to build enough that he, he's good on, you know, niche job breaks.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. Uh, tune up, stuff like that. But he has enough customers coming in. But I remember when he started, he was on the Yes. He was rebuilding engine that shouldn't be rebuilt, you know, but you, you need to, you need to start from there and then get that experience and then get the customer to follow you that then you can choose some jobs that you don't want to touch because it's not profitable in the long run, you know?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. To what you're expending.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. What, uh, point of sale system are you running? Uh, I use uh, VIP shop Manager. Okay. Um, and DVI do they have a DVI that works, integrates in with it, or what do you do? Uh, I, what do you mean, sorry? Uh, digital vehicle inspection.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So, so my, my hotel does, my hotel connects to my, um.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: To my computer. Okay. Not recorded. As we do it, it, it sends it right over there and then it gets the, you can get the images of anything and goes into my invoicing through photo I shop, um, a, a photo of something. It says like, uh, okay. And it just, everything goes right to it. But they do, I like, I, I'll put a for VF shop manager 'cause I've tried 'em all.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I've had all data as shop manager, they're so difficult to use. Especially if you wanna cancel a, a, a statement of go. I had to jump through hoops like I'm an accountant. Right. So, so the vi shop manager, the person that built it was a me mechanic himself. He's a tech, uh, and he built it to what mechanics need in their invoicing, and he's been building upon that himself.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: And now he's got, it's now it's a real good system. Yeah, for sure. Not cloud based. It was actually, now it's cloud based and it's, I'm, I'm, oh,
Jimmy Lea: that's awesome. Orders for you and everything. I've heard of another shop in Sacramento that's also using VIP. Mm-hmm. So it is a newer software on the industry. It's very cost efficient.
Jimmy Lea: You've been with him a while. That probably means you were one of the
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: beta groups. I was, I, I think I was just out of the beta group. He had just started selling it out to people. Okay. Me and Mark communicate all the time and I'll give him, and he is very nice. I, I'll give him, Hey, you should add this. Put this there.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Calendar should be changed. And next month it's changed.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Mm-hmm. It's really, that's awesome. When you have that sort of a, a relationship with you, one of your service providers mm-hmm. One of your products, your programs, one of your systems that helps you to run your business, not only are you able to pick up the phone and talk to them, they're listening and they're responsive and they're implementing.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: That's, that's the, that's another key that I think, you know, everyone should do. Like, if you're dealing with a certain company, get to know them. You know, I get to communicate with them because you might be not using their system to the best of analogy. You're thinking it's not as good quality, but it is, you know, um, I, how to use it.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: I like to build a relationship with my sales, my sales reps, my part guys, my delivery guys even, because guess what? Sometimes they do me a favor. Why they do have it, because I don't forget the little guy, you know? Yeah. You know?
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Yeah. I, I've heard it said that we are in the relationship business.
Jimmy Lea: We just happen to fix cars.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Exactly. You know, and listen, you know how many times customers come to me, we've done a tire in the back, and they're telling me, well, there's noise in the phone. What did you do? You know, you have to, you have to have that relationship, be able to explain it and have the patience to do it.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Yeah. And, and the relationship sometimes solves everything. You know, sometimes mess up, sometimes customer doesn't understand. But when you have that relationship. You can, you, you're not speaking at a 10. You're always calm and you're able to solve problems and it's easier to help a customer that understands you than it is someone that's coming backwards.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, I love it. I love it. So what does the future look like for you, Billy? What, what's the next 5, 10, 15 years?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So if all goes well, I was actually looking to, um, merge with, uh, prestige. Like I told, told you before about where we can actually train in-house our own workers. And start, you know, locating into maybe other smaller shops that we have.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: We, when we grow out of it, where, you know, everything's done in-house or we train our own guys, we train on the cars that we're working on and we place them into our, our little, uh, service, small service shops, nothing big in local spots, which again, two big garage can pull in a lot of money if you have the right technicians.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If you have the right tools. So if you have a company behind you, sporting you like a big chop, but trading your guys to the service that we really see out there,
Jimmy Lea: it's true. It's true. So the future for you is expanding the kingdom. You're looking for some additional footprints
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: mm-hmm.
Jimmy Lea: In the kingdom. I, I think that's phenomenal.
Jimmy Lea: That's, and, and
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: already to do that, you need to be able to partner up with the right people. Mark. Mark is very good technician. He's a very good teacher. So he'd be great in that teaching at department, working in my shop here while he's teaching everyone instead of turning the wrenches, you know?
Jimmy Lea: I love it.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. That's very good. Yeah. And, and as you do that, as you get ready to do that, make sure your process and procedures are right and they're in order. Your handbook is up to date and in order. 'cause that's that process procedure that you want every single other location to follow. Because it's a proven method.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Exactly. So that's, that's the way that I, I built my dealership as well. And if it's wor, if something's working, just improve it. Don't change it, you know? Oh, I love it. Don't try
Jimmy Lea: stuff. Best point number six. Yes, it is. Know what your process of procedures are and document 'em. 'cause if it's not written down, it doesn't exist.
Jimmy Lea: It doesn't exist. Oh, that's awesome, man. Very cool. Well, if you were to have a, uh, a magic wand. And you were to wave this magic wand, you can't wish for more wishes, but you can change one thing in the industry. What would you change, Billy?
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Hmm. One thing would be, would be to be able to get, uh, information better, easier, like, you know, information, because that's what solves the problem.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: If I can't get my diagnostic information from the dealer of manufacturers, I'm, it's costing me more time to try to figure it out. If you look at all talent and stuff, that's how they've solved the programming problem. They do the Chinese programming in, in the system, and it overrides the original manufacturer, but it's the same.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: They decode it. Well, why are we going through all these hoops when the manufacturer can make it a little easier on us, you know, and, and allow access for more cost efficient. But we don't have to go to hotel, you know, we'll have them do stuff like this.
Jimmy Lea: It's always gonna be found, but that's
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: my magic.
Jimmy Lea: W have, have magic wand.
Jimmy Lea: Access to data, access to data information. I don't mean for free, but affordable for every. Yeah. And, and you know, when you get out to some of these trade shows that we were talking about earlier, uh, these conferences and trade shows and these associations, these are the people that you wanna surround yourself with because they are going after the Right to repair act.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. They are supporting Right to repair, they are actively going after Congress to make sure that the manufacturers do share this type of data and information. You are going to absolutely love being part of Super Saturday Tools, Mid-Atlantic Auto Care. You are gonna love this. So yeah, if you
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: send me couple, I probably would take trips myself just to see them for first.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: You see what's about,
Jimmy Lea: um, check it out yourself. I totally agree. Mm-hmm. Once you are convinced, which I think you're gonna be convinced Yeah. Then, then there are shops that shut down the whole entire shop. They make it a a, a team building experience. Yeah. They all go together, they all travel together and, and it, it might cost the shop 20 or $30,000 for everybody that's there, blah, blah, blah.
Jimmy Lea: But it is so worth it. 'cause when they all come back to the shop, production is better. It's higher. They learned how to work. This picoscope just a little bit better. Now they're fixing these cars and they're saying, you know what, if I'd have known what I know now, those other three cars that I couldn't fix last month.
Jimmy Lea: I would've been able to fix 'em. Mm-hmm.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: It, it, it does, uh, trade shows. I actually was reading a book, it's called Choose Your Enemies Wisely. And he says that in there too. You, you have to bring your workers, he's in the insurance business to these, uh, tr uh, trade shows. Close them up because when they, you might spend 50 grand, but when they get back, they make you an additional a hundred.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: But you gotta track it.
Jimmy Lea: Track
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: it. Oh yeah. It works for sure.
Jimmy Lea: What is the ROI on getting you guys out to these different mm-hmm. Conferences and trade shows? A hundred percent agree with you.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Mm-hmm. A lot of new guys might just be throwing that money around and not actually implementing what they learned.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: So now you just wasted 15 rent and you're small shop. Yeah. That's big money for you.
Jimmy Lea: Oh it is. It is. It is. Absolutely. Billy, I look forward to meeting you.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Alright, I, it was great meeting you as well.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much for your time today. I love your insight. I love where you're going. We've gotta do this again.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Anytime.
Jimmy Lea: Alright brother. Thank you very much.
Bulent “Billy” Demirbulakli: Thank you.

156 - Manage the Experience, Master the Shop: Bob Ward on Culture, DVIs & Tools that Win

156 - Manage the Experience, Master the Shop: Bob Ward on Culture, DVIs & Tools that Win
October 15, 2025 - 00:47:02
 
Show Summary:
From a gas station side job to franchise leader turned independent owner, Bob Ward shares how he built The Auto Guys in St. Thomas, Ontario on process, people, and pride. He unpacks the leap from technician to manager to owner, the 15-year coaching run that shaped his systems, and why culture shows up in photos, bay huddles, and a joke-filled street sign. Bob dives into apprentice pipelines, the state of Canadian tech education, and what he learned serving as Midas’ Canadian dealer rep. He explains the million-dollar shop formula: manage the customer journey, run the back-of-house with clear policies, and sell from thorough DVIs. We hear how “never say no” equipment strategy, specialty tools, and daily/weekly rhythms keep work flowing. He offers recruiting and retention nuggets (from oil-filter stickers to recognizing big diags) and maps his succession plan with his service manager, Nick. The episode closes with a call to elevate trades education and transfer veteran wisdom to the next generation.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Bob Ward, Owner of St. Thomas Auto Guys
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:52] - Bob’s unconventional start: he aimed to be a teacher, but a gas station job and early-’80s Midas brakes era pulled him into the trade and into management.
[00:04:12] - Franchise to ownership: promoted to store manager, then part-owner in six weeks—fast lessons that pushed him to seek coaching and systems.
[00:08:22] - Building a brand beyond the franchise: “Make them come for you, not the logo”—earning Midas’ Presidential Awards before launching The Auto Guys.
[00:10:22] - Culture you can see: a cohesive crew, pro photos, and visible joy signal a place customers and techs want to be.
[00:15:15] - Fixing the pipeline: Bob details Ontario’s apprenticeship path and why high schools must rebuild hands-on tech education.
[00:26:59] - Million-dollar lever #1: Manage the customer base: scripted intake, clean protections, readable DVIs, proactive updates, and timed pickups reduce end-of-day pileups.
[00:29:30] - Million-dollar lever #2: Policies in the shop: enforce standards, invest in equipment, huddle daily, meet monthly, and publicly recognize tough diagnostics.
[00:35:04] - Million-dollar lever #3: 300% rule in action: inspect every car, estimate every need, present every finding; target 2.5+ billed hours beyond the original concern.
[00:39:59] - “Never say no”: keep programming, A/C, diagnostics, and light-duty diesel in-house so customers never need to go elsewhere.
[00:41:26] - Street-smart marketing: replace competitor oil-change stickers, keep a free-water fridge, and use community touchpoints to create memorable “wow” moments.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello friend. This is Jimmy Lea with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and you are listening to the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Bob Ward, and he is joining from his shop. Are you at your shop, Bob? Yes. And your shop is in St. Thomas up in Canada, is that correct? The balmy south of Ontario.
Jimmy Lea: Yes, balmy south of Ontario. I heard that there are more Canadians living south of. Was the, there's more Canadians living south of the border of the United States because of Ontario dipping down, being so populated. I don't know if that's true or not.
Bob Ward: Well, it is. Ontario is the has the heaviest population density in Canada.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, it certainly does. Yep. And what a beautiful country, Bob, you guys. My two favorite places in the world that I've been to, well, two of them that are on the top 10 list is Niagara Falls and Banff.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. You've been to both.
Bob Ward: I've been to one. Banff is still on my bucket list.
Jimmy Lea: Bro. You gotta go.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. It's absolutely gorgeous. And I went during the unseasonably. Pre spring season, the snow had melted, but there was no growth happening yet. Okay. So one would've said, oh, everything is still dead. Oh my gosh. It was so gorgeous. It was so beautiful.
Bob Ward: That's typical of Canada. We've got so many natural resources and wonders that we could share with the world.
Jimmy Lea: You, you really do. You really do. And there, there's no reason to travel outside of the country because there's so much country to see. Absolutely. Oh, I love it. I love it. Bob. How did you get into the automotive industry?
Bob Ward: Mine is kind of an unusual story, Jimmy, because when I went to, when I graduated from high school I decided to go to university to become a high school teacher.
Bob Ward: And I graduated with a double major. But in my final year my marks weren't enough. I had to repeat my final year to go back into and get my grades up to get into teacher's college, but I decided not to because while I was going to university, I was working at a gas station and I started learning stuff from the mechanics in there and back that this is the day I'm showing my age because I tell you, I dye my hair white.
Bob Ward: Okay. Nobody believes me.
Bob Ward: But that's when I started in the automotive trade. And what it did is it morphed from that and I started working in the bays and getting an apprenticeship and then it morphed from there. And I went, I worked in several small, independent garages. Yes. But I couldn't see myself learning anything from those places.
Bob Ward: Because I wanted to get back then propane was a big ticket item. And I went and got my licenses for that. There was three licenses and I did this on my own. Well, then I joined Midas because they were getting into breaks back then in the early eighties.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Yes.
Bob Ward: And I worked for them for a while, but I found that, the managers in the stores weren't very reliable back then, and I found I was having to do a lot of managing my own sales and selling stuff that the managers were supposed to do. So I started learning all that stuff.
Jimmy Lea: Interesting.
Bob Ward: And then the owner of the franchise saw that in me and he upgraded me to a manager to run a store.
Bob Ward: Nice. So I ran a store for him for eight years and I really enjoyed it. Jimmy, I mean. There's a lot of diversity in the clients and dealing with the staff. You know what, in hindsight I thought, boy, maybe I should have gone to school for daycare daycare education when dealing with staff.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Early childhood development.
Bob Ward: Yeah. So then an opportunity came up where there was a franchise in St. Thomas that had. Midas had repossessed, so to speak, and I went in six weeks, I went from being a manager in a store in London to a part owner of a franchise in St. Thomas. Nice. So that was a big learning curve for me.
Bob Ward: Yeah. Because, you know, all us technicians think that, you know, 'cause you're a good tech or you're a good business owner. And I sure found out quickly that I needed help. Yes. And I found that help through automotive Training Institute. Nice. And we were in one of the first groups that Chubby took in.
Bob Ward: Nice. And we were with them for 15 years, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. A lot
Bob Ward: of, a lot of good relationships and a lot of good friends from that.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Bob Ward: And that's the training that I needed to help me along and get me where I am today.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That is a band of brothers that, a TI is able to put together and with chubby and
Bob Ward: he
Jimmy Lea: has since moved on, retired and sold the business and, you know, all honor to his day. It's still going on, Jimmy. Well, it is. And it's wonderful. And I'm just pleased that I was able to meet Chubby and get to know him. I was right at the very end of his career, if you will.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Like, I think I was at one of the LA my first was one of his last conferences. Super conference. Right. And then Richard and the Karens took over.
Bob Ward: Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, I know quite well.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. They are awesome people. We love them. So you went from managing the franchise to owning in a franchise.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. And from owning in the franchise. 'cause you and you talk about a different skillset. I talk about a lot is technicians have the ability to turn the wrenches and cars talk to them. Then you've gotta learn a new skill set of talking to people and you have to speak human. And then you've got a third skillset of running the business, and that's a totally different skillset.
Jimmy Lea: Did you find it easy to transition and learn each level along the way? Or was that challenging?
Bob Ward: It was challenging on two fronts. One is. I'm not the easiest guy to knock outta my comfort zone. Okay. And I think that's characteristic of a lot of people. And I went through several coaches at where I was before, and they were all great, but they all had their strengths.
Bob Ward: Okay. Yes. And they taught me to be a little more open-minded and try something different. And that's what got me, I think. Where I am today. There's still some things that I do resist, but I think that prepared me without that I wouldn't be where I am today because, you know, I was with a Midas franchisee for 20 years, and I got involved in the franchise industry.
Bob Ward: I was the International Midas dealer representative for all of Canada. Nice. And I was down in corporate meetings with Midas at the executive level. Quarterly and that's where I really flourished. I really enjoyed doing that, but had I not had the training that I received, I couldn't be able to leave my business and be away for several days.
Bob Ward: Right,
Jimmy Lea: right. Yeah.
Bob Ward: So, and then, but again, I kind of got away from the Midas, so they were great. Yes, and they still are. They're a very good organization, but I couldn't see myself going where they were going. Right, because I'm more of an independent shop owner, and even when we were a Midas franchise owner, I was operating outside the franchise agreement by doing tuneups and oil changes and things like that, that Midas was not doing.
Jimmy Lea: Right. No, that's interesting. Okay. Keep going. Well,
Bob Ward: yeah, and it is because the guys at a TI, they told me if you wanna be a successful franchisee. You have to make the people come to see you, not the brand.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, bingo. Totally agree. If you do that, you're gonna
Bob Ward: succeed. Okay. And I succeeded doing that.
Bob Ward: And we were one of only, well back then there was about 1600 Midas franchisees franchises in North America. We were one of only 10. They had the presidential award. That was given out. You had to tick off a lot of boxes with business operation, customer satisfaction, purchasing, warranty ratios, all kinds of things.
Bob Ward: We were only one of a 10 that won all three. Okay. Oh, I still got that on my wall here, and I look at it every day. Right, because that was a big thing in my mind to get that accomplished. But. I let my, at the end of my franchise, I bowed out and we started the Auto Guys. I love it.
Bob Ward: And I learned all of the stuff I learned from a TI and I learned from Midas. I transitioned when I made Auto Guys because people come here and they think we're a franchise, and when we set the company up, we made it set up so that it could be a franchise. All of that was done at the start. Right. And I had I not had that training and had a good corporate lawyer, we wouldn't have done all that stuff.
Bob Ward: Right.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, and I'm looking at your website by the way, your shop looks. Phenomenal, your team. Thank you. Looks amazing. Everyone looks like they just got finished telling a really good joke 'cause they're all laughing. They're all having a great time. What a wonderful culture you must have set up here in your shop that everybody enjoys working at your shop
Bob Ward: currently, Jimmy, it's this crew that I've got.
Bob Ward: All of the people that I've had that's come through the shop have been great people.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Bob Ward: And each one of them has had their own strengths and they've moved on, whether it's my choice or their choice. Right.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Bob Ward: And I don't begrudge any of them, but without a doubt, the current crew that I have here is absolutely the most cohesive group and best working group I've ever had.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Tell me who is, I'm gonna call him hair. Who is that guy? Who is, who's the hair dude's got like a mop on his head. I mean, it's, that's some glorious locks that boy's got going there. Who is that?
Bob Ward: Well,
Jimmy Lea: that could
Bob Ward: be I'm not on my website.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, let me show you.
Bob Ward: Okay,
Jimmy Lea: here we go.
Jimmy Lea: Whose hair?
Bob Ward: Oh, that's the guy on the right. That's Vish. Yeah. He's the most photogenic guy I've ever seen. 'cause you never see him not smiling? Yeah. Okay. So he got headhunted by another company and he's doing well with his other company. Oh, congratulations. So, Vish, Vish was an awesome character, right?
Jimmy Lea: Bi, his name was Bish,
Bob Ward: V-V-I-S-H, VIIs. Yep. Oh wow. He is actually, believe it or not, Jimmy, he has a degree in mechanical engineering in India. Oh my word. And when he came with me, yeah. He was an apprentice and I had him do the a SE tests for both brakes and electrical. And he passed them both.
Jimmy Lea: And he'd never worked on brakes or electrical.
Bob Ward: No, he's that smart. Right? Good
Jimmy Lea: for him
Bob Ward: that Wow. But he's moved on.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that. Congratulations. Yeah, I can, you can just, you can, in some shops, you can look and you can see, and you can feel that culture of happy and enjoyment. And we like each other and we like working together. And I can definitely see it from your website that you've set up a really great website and a really great shop.
Jimmy Lea: It looks, and I see three bay doors. Are they double deep?
Bob Ward: There's actually four bay doors and one of them is double deep. Ah, very good. I must be missing the one then. Yeah, there's the one at the front of the building and then the side of the building, there's three more. And the center bay is a double deep bay.
Bob Ward: That's the one for a long term, like for engine jobs and stuff.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, very good. Very good. So the current setup for your shop is the three bays and one that's a long term. How many technicians do you have? What's the makeup there? Service advisors. What does that look like for you?
Bob Ward: Well, I have one service manager slash advisor, Nick.
Bob Ward: I work with him out front. I'm licensed myself. Yeah. But I don't work on cars unless it's an old car that comes in or it's, the guys need a hand with something.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,
Bob Ward: I have so there's Nick and I up front and I have four guys in the back, two ap, two apprentices, and two licensed technicians.
Bob Ward: I gotta say Jimmy, both my licensed techs were with me before and they came back to me again and they're two of the best teachers ever. The two of my apprentices are in a really good spot from learning 'cause both these other tech techs will share any of their information and guide them into doing jobs and that's, and they don't even bat an eye, they just do it.
Jimmy Lea: Brother. I love that. That is awesome. Is that Chris and Steve? Are they your texts that came back? Well, Chris is no longer with me.
Bob Ward: Okay. We're updating our website there. So it's Steve and Rob. Oh. Which is in the process of uploading their pictures and their bios.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. I love it. I love it.
Jimmy Lea: You, you, those are some of the photos you have to do professionally. Because it's on your website. It's there forever. Every other photo that you take with your cell phone, yeah. It's appropriate for social media and we can share it and all that jazz. Yeah. But I love your professional shots. It speaks volumes to what you're doing in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: That's very cool. Thank you. Yes. And thank you for building our apprentices, for those that are coming into the industry as well. Do, does, is there a path for them to follow? Have you laid out a path for them?
Bob Ward: It's all pretty much orchestrated. It's the apprentices in Canada are governed by each province.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Bob Ward: And currently it's the Ministry of Skills and Development. Excellent. But before that, it was the Ontario College of Trades. And I got involved, I sat on the Board of Governors for the College of Trades, representing the Mode of Power division. I sat on that for two and a half years.
Jimmy Lea: Oh wow.
Bob Ward: Right. So, yes, there's a good path for them to follow. And of course, it's all digital now. Yes. But it's, well, currently I'm working with the ministry of Skills and Development because we've got an education system problem here in Canada. Okay.
Jimmy Lea: The
Bob Ward: young, the young kids that are coming through now, there's, they're starting to push or promote the trades again.
Bob Ward: And for the longest time, all of the technology courses were being dropped and it was all academics. Well, now it's swinging back to this, but the education system is not geared up. The kids now are not taking the courses they need to be in the trades. In North America and I'll speak for Canada.
Bob Ward: I can't speak for the US Jimmy, but Sure. The trades skilled trades in Europe are handled totally differently. So when these young people decide they go into high school or whatever it is over there, and they decide they want to trade, they're automatically funneled into predetermined courses.
Bob Ward: They have to take over there. They're not optional, they're mandatory.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Bob Ward: And during their time over there, they are sent out to co-op in different locations. Now, in Canada, we have co-op here as well. Okay. What I'm finding is because the education is lacking, it's fallen right back that some of the kids that the co, the high schools are trying to send to me, I can't take them.
Bob Ward: Because they, they have had no experience working around equipment or they haven't got the training to work on the cars. And it's sad. So we're working with them to get that back up and running and get these kids geared more for, technical training. 'cause I mean, you know, when I graduated from high school and I started my apprenticeship, I had no automotive experience whatsoever.
Bob Ward: I didn't take any technical courses. I graduated from Western, I had two degrees from Western. Okay. And when I got into trade school, I was like a fish outta water. Okay. The hardest ones for me were machine shop. I knew electrical and I knew carburetors. I knew all of that stuff. And the guys that I met in trade school, I helped teach them the electrical and the carburetors, and they taught me how to do the machine shop stuff.
Bob Ward: So we got each other through the class. Right. Oh, that's good. I still have good friendships with some of those guys that I've kept in touch with over the years.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's beautiful. But it's a
Bob Ward: close knit group, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it is.
Bob Ward: It's just, it's the same thing with the shop owners. We belong to several chat groups with shop owners and one of them we meet every once a Thursday a month.
Bob Ward: And it's, you can call it a bitch session if you want, but we talk about things and we, you never know where you're gonna get a nugget from.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Bob Ward: And they come from all over the place. And it's these chat groups. These memberships that I belong to, that's where you really flourish.
Bob Ward: Yeah. Okay. And I can't say enough about shop owners. You get drawn into your shop and it takes all your time and you can't you build walls all around yourself and you've gotta stop and break down those walls and get out, and then you can educate yourself. 'cause that's the big thing with shops now, shop owners.
Bob Ward: Is all of the red tape that you've gotta go through with the government and with the local bylaws and everything and learning and keeping up, up, abreast on everything. Yeah. If you don't keep up abreast and you stop, the other shops that are doing it are gonna just storm right by you and you're just gonna be left.
Bob Ward: I call 'em lud eggs. Right. So the shops, oh, lu eggs, Lud eggs. Oh, I get you. Yes. Oh yeah. The shops that don't do anything and they just keep doing the same thing and don't progress. You're just, you're gonna find yourself in a hole and you're never gonna get out of it.
Jimmy Lea: That's so true. It's so true. And the education problem that you're talking about, Bob, that is rampant all across North America even here in the lower 48,
Bob Ward: right?
Jimmy Lea: It is just as bad as it is there in Canada. And we've gotta work to correct the ship to, right the ship. Yep. There's an available 70 to a hundred thousand positions for technicians to step into. Yeah. But this year in North America, we're only gonna have 30,000 graduate from technical schools.
Jimmy Lea: And after the first year, half of those aren't gonna still be in the business. Not to mention the 50 to 60,000 that are retiring every year too. 'cause the body just can't take it.
Bob Ward: And that in itself is a tremendous loss of knowledge and wisdom that is not being transferred over to these young kids.
Bob Ward: Truth,
Jimmy Lea: right? Truth.
Bob Ward: And the other thing that we're finding too, Jimmy, is when we do interviews. By the way, I hate doing interviews, right. I'm not good at it, but I've got a system down. But you've gotta look at the individual deeper than what their schooling is. Everything you've gotta see if they have a good mindset, if they're gonna fit into your team.
Bob Ward: Right. And they're gonna be there for the long haul. Because what I'm finding too, with some of these kids, they want the big bucks and they want the jobs right away and they can't have it. No.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, they're not qualified
Bob Ward: yet. Well, they're not qualified and they can't see it because up here, the education system, they don't fail kids or hold kids back anymore.
Bob Ward: They keep promoting them. Right? So all of a sudden the kids are coming out into the real world where they're getting into hitting a brick wall because, so those of us that are shop owners, we've built our business up and we've got certain criteria that you must meet. And if you don't meet it. Right.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's, and I
Bob Ward: hate to throw people to the curb.
Bob Ward: Yeah. We always try and help them and get them, and some of them have really flourished because it's amazing when you spend some time with these young kids and teach them of what they can be and how they can get there by themselves and utilizing friendships and stuff how some kids flourish and those are the keepers.
Jimmy Lea: Totally.
Bob Ward: But it's unfortunate because there's places in my town where they're constantly headhunting my techs.
Jimmy Lea: Oh
Bob Ward: yeah. Yeah, they are. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: And in fact I was talking to Tyler Nichols yesterday from extra Mile Auto Care out of where's he out of? Steelwater, Oklahoma.
Bob Ward: Okay.
Jimmy Lea: He had an interview with a technician and he's the general manager.
Jimmy Lea: Tyler's the general manager. He called Aaron the owner and said, Hey, I just interviewed a guy to be one of our techs. However, he's really gonna be a great service advisor. Can we hire him to be a service advisor? Yep. To your exact point, when you see the potential inside of people, you're hiring for that potential.
Jimmy Lea: Not just the tick on the box that says they have an education from this place. You know, what are their pastimes, what are their hobbies? What do they like to do outside of work? Is that gonna be fitting into your company and your culture?
Bob Ward: And you're absolutely right, Jimmy, because like my service manager, he was with me a while ago and he clashed with my then manager.
Bob Ward: I'll be honest I didn't know how to deal with this manager. He shouldn't have been where he was, but I was coping with him. And then when he left my service manager, Nick came back. Now Nick I got him from one of my parts suppliers. He was a Counterman. Oh, nice. And he was really good. And he's an awesome guy, but he also races super stock stock cars.
Bob Ward: Oh yeah. You have no idea the number of people that know him from that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. And
Bob Ward: how the people from the stock car side of things,
Jimmy Lea: the community, they actually
Bob Ward: come in and talk to him. And people recognize, you know, they say, well, well, I saw you on TV and on watching you racing.
Bob Ward: Yep, that's him. Well, it's a instant bond.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. This
Bob Ward: kid knows cars.
Jimmy Lea: Right.
Bob Ward: And he can answer questions that people, nothing impresses people more than going into a place and asking car questions and getting an answer from him rather than saying, well, just a minute I'll go get somebody that knows what they're doing.
Bob Ward: Yeah. Which is what happens in dealerships.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Bob Ward: Okay. And I love dealerships, Jimmy, because we get more business from them. Yeah, they're your MVP, right? That's right. So, it's amazing. What people pick up too. When people come in, like my wife, she keeps on me about changing the signs out front.
Bob Ward: We, we got our a street side sign. I put jokes up every week.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Bob Ward: The number of people that comment on, oh, I see your signs. Signs all the time and everything. It's little things like that don't realize when we do put a serious sign up, it gets noticed.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Yeah. So
Bob Ward: she makes sure the shop is clean and people notice that we got a Tim Horton's franchise beside us.
Bob Ward: And it's a compliment when people come in and they say, I went over there to get a donut. I've got a Tim's card that I give 'em. I said, you're going over there. Here. I give 'em the Tim's card, buy yourself a coffee and a donut. And some of them, a lot of them come back and they say, your place is cleaner than that.
Bob Ward: Tim's next door. Okay. That's pretty good. I know. So when people notice this and they also notice what we were talking about before, how well the guys joke and kid act amongst themselves. People notice that. Right. I love
Jimmy Lea: it. Yeah.
Bob Ward: And that's the thing that's gonna set you apart from other places, is what people notice.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure. Okay, so I just did a little bit of searching here to discover your sign. Is this the old school? Put the letters up. On the sign kind of sign. Yep. I hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.
Bob Ward: Well, that's a story I'll tell you about that because the, I put that up and a customer came by. She brought me a little silicone boat.
Bob Ward: Okay. Did you see that picture? Yeah. The little blue boat right next to it. Yep. Yep. So I put on the sign today, right? My ship finally came in along with donuts. Okay. And I put that out on the sign because only that person will see that and know what it means. Yes. I love it. And we get customers that come in all the time and they say, here's, this is what I found.
Bob Ward: Right. And I put their stuff up there too.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love the company, the culture, the look, the feel. I love what you're doing, Bob. Congratulations. Thank you, Jim. That does not happen by accident. That takes a lot of work to make it look effortless.
Bob Ward: And that's right. And we've all heard it.
Bob Ward: I mean, it's a hard thing to get something in place, but it's even harder to keep it in place. Oh, amen. It's very easy to let it slide. Right?
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Well, let's talk about what do you think are the three things holding shops back today? From being a million dollar shop?
Bob Ward: The number one thing is managing your customer base.
Bob Ward: Okay. Okay. You have to have policies and perche procedures in place for everything, but how the customer is handled when they come in, how the communication, the ongoing how they're checked in how the car's prepared. We put slip covers and seat covers and floors in all the cars before they come in and people notice that, right?
Bob Ward: So it's our attention to detail. So it's the intake process with customers. The we even design and put in our own digital inspections and they get inspections that they can actually read that the shop, the texts, fill 'em all out. Yeah, there's no tech handwriting. A hundred percent.
Bob Ward: There's no dirty finger marks on 'em or oil on 'em or anything. I love it. And the customers expect that now. So, it's the procedures that we follow when we call 'em and let them know what's wrong with their card and how much it'll cost and how that whole transaction transpires. And then the same thing when the cars come in.
Bob Ward: They come in and pick up their car. Yeah, right. Because we give them a time of completion. We call 'em and tell 'em when their car's ready so that everybody, you know, in the old days everybody used to come in at five or five 30 and you'd get slammed. Well, we don't do that anymore.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. People
Bob Ward: come out through the day and they'll pick up their car.
Bob Ward: So at the end of the day, it's quiet. We can get all our paperwork done and everything done. So how you handle the customers and the fact that you exceed your customer's expectations every time they come in, you have to do that. And it can be a wow factor from a Timmy's card. Or we give car wash coupons out from around the corner to everybody that comes in.
Bob Ward: It's little things like that they like. Or here's the thing that I put in, 'cause we're, our temperatures can be in the eighties and nineties, in the summertime, and it's very humid here. I got this old beat up fridge that I had in my upstairs lunch room for the guys. It was becoming too small, so I bought another fridge.
Bob Ward: I took that fridge downstairs and put it in the showroom, put an auto guy's label on it, and I put free cold water on it. There you go. And people come in and they just go right to the fridge. Right? Is little things like that separate you. So there's your customer management.
Jimmy Lea: I love
Bob Ward: it. Okay, so the other thing there, there were three things, right?
Bob Ward: Yes. The other thing is policies and procedures in dealing with your technicians out back, okay? You have to have rules and regulations that are followed. They have to be monitored and they have to be enforced. So I've got a very good lady that's an HR person that helps us and she keeps me on update on all the new laws and regulations and helps me keep my guys in line.
Bob Ward: And the guys actually appreciate that. They know that if there's, I mean, nobody's perfect, Jimmy, even I've done things where I've gotten in trouble with my wife or whoever, or my HR lady who gives me hell every once in a while, but it's there for a reason. It's to keep us going in the right direction.
Bob Ward: That's right. Right. So we've got, not only do we have technician and bay management, right. The other thing is equipment. If you wanna play in today's market, you've gotta take the word no outta your vocabulary,
Jimmy Lea: okay?
Bob Ward: Okay. So if you bring your car into me, Jimmy and I do everything. I do air conditioning, we do diagnostics, we do programming, everything.
Bob Ward: There's nothing we don't do. I will not give you a reason to take your car somewhere else.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. I love, there's no
Bob Ward: way, okay? Because if you do that, you can lose a customer.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Bob Ward: And I don't wanna take that chance. So that's what we do here is you're you've got all the top end equipment.
Bob Ward: We have daily huddles with the techs before, so they know what's up for the day. And we have a monthly staff meeting where I buy the guys lunch and it's a, like a down and dirty thing. We give agendas out. The guys know what's gonna be talked on. And sometimes we ask the guys to give a little speech and talk about something like we've got a bulletin board up there where sometimes the technicians go above and beyond.
Bob Ward: They've had a very difficult dag job and we recognize it on the bulletin board and we recognize it on our monthly meeting that say, Hey, Steve had this really nasty. Diag and we leave them alone. I'm not a guy that harps these guys. If they're head deep into a diag, I leave them alone.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, yeah.
Bob Ward: I don't bug 'em.
Bob Ward: I don't tell 'em You've got 15 minutes or whatever to finish this. And those guys love it when you do that.
Jimmy Lea: That's right. You can't interrupt their thought flow and process. Nope. Let 'em have at it.
Bob Ward: Yep. But again, you keep up with the customer. You say, look, this is where Steve is in your diag. This is where he is.
Bob Ward: He's finally got an area that he's go, he knows he is gonna go in this direction. It's costing you this much so far, and this is what we're projecting. And if you keep the customer in the loop with that they're more aware of it. So you're not giving him a heart attack at the end.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Jimmy Lea: And the
Bob Ward: technician's happy. Ultimately, the customer's happy because their car's fixed. Okay. It may not be cheap, but I'm not the cheapest shop in town and I don't wanna entertain that.
Jimmy Lea: No, that's right. We're here to fix it.
Bob Ward: Right. We know this is one thing that a shop owner has to know. You've gotta know your breakeven point, your minimum sales target to make Your expenses.
Bob Ward: Yeah. If you know that,
Jimmy Lea: then you can build from that. Amen. If you know what it takes to break that nut. And the challenge is, can I break it by the 20th of the month? The 15th of the month? The 12th of the month. How is it? The 18th of the month? Is it the 31st of the month? Yep. That's a challenge. We got things to talk about.
Jimmy Lea: The sooner you can break that number to know that you've got everything covered, the better it is for your shop. I love that. Thank you, Ben. And,
Bob Ward: And you know, I've been to some. Some places where the shop owners haven't got a clue Yes. What's going on? You know, and I feel sorry for them, but there again, you can't, you can tee a horse knows how to drink, right?
Bob Ward: You gotta lead them to where they drink, what trough to drink from, right? That's the part that you can't do. And some of us have found troughs to drink in multiple troughs. 'cause you can't just stick with one. You've gotta go in through a bunch. Right. But it's the shops that find those and can get pulled themselves out because in, in town here in it is Heyday.
Bob Ward: There were probably, we're in a town of about 40,000 now. There were 35 shops in, in our town Independence and franchises and stuff, which was crazy. Now there's 20.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Bob Ward: It doesn't take long for these shops to fall off and go bankrupt because they can't keep up.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and so to your third point, your first point is manage your customer base.
Jimmy Lea: Manage your customer's experience. I love that. Number two is your policies, procedures, working with your technicians and making sure that they're on top of their game. What is your third element that says if shop owners can do this, they'll. Break that $1 million per year sales.
Bob Ward: Okay there's two answers to that one.
Bob Ward: Okay. One is doing thorough vehicle inspections and the, that then it's passed on to the service manager. The service advisor, how to sell that stuff, how to sell it right away or project it into the future. For your next visit, Jimmy, we're gonna be servicing your transmission and your breaks. The visit after that.
Bob Ward: We're gonna be, we're gonna be doing something else, right? So, you know, ahead of time, everybody works on budgets. So if you can tell people your next visit's gonna cost this much, right? They can strive to that and it's an easier sell. So that's the first thing is doing thorough inspections. Now, the caveat from that is you can do an inspection, but you've also gotta sell that work.
Bob Ward: So what I'm looking for on invoices is I'm looking for. At least two and a half hours of build time on each invoice. Minimum for other categories Yes. Than what it came in for. Agreed. A hundred percent. Okay. Love
Jimmy Lea: it.
Bob Ward: Keep
Jimmy Lea: going.
Bob Ward: Then you know that you're working towards your goal of seeing the people more often, right?
Bob Ward: That's the thing where customers are our customer. They're not a number. That's right. And when, and here's something else I keep thinking about. If customers come in, if you go to a, we've all got our favorite restaurants, Jimmy. Yep. If you go into that restaurant and you see the same servers all the time, that says a lot about that restaurant.
Bob Ward: Same thing in our business. If you see the same guys out back and you see the same service advisor, right? That says a lot.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. We have a favorite restaurant that we go to. It's called the High Red. It's a sushi bar. And when we walk in, they know Playboy role, executive role. It's on the way.
Jimmy Lea: There you go.
Bob Ward: Yep. And that says a lot. So, yeah. And the other thing is you've gotta give your techs the equipment to do their job. Yes. I do not expect my techs to buy these specialty tools. We buy them all the time. Nice. And that they bring it up at the meeting or they bring it up at a huddle and say, look, you know, we got a particular job we're doing on a, we have a lot of German cars that come in here now.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Bob Ward: And you know the timing belt jobs, you need those special kits for the timing chains and timing belts. Yes. We got them. We get them ahead of time so that when the car comes in, the techs know they've got everything at their disposal to do the job properly.
Jimmy Lea: Good. Right.
Bob Ward: And that's where you've gotta, if you wanna play now you gotta pay.
Bob Ward: That's my model. Right. So if you give the techs what they need to do their job, they're gonna be happy.
Jimmy Lea: Totally agree. Totally agree. So I love your third point here is not only are you doing, and we would call this the 300% rule on your inspections, right? Every car gets inspected, every need, every red or yellow has a picture, and it goes to the service advisor.
Jimmy Lea: Estimates every needed repair. So number one you document every needed repair. Number two you estimate every repair. And number three, you show the full inspection, the full estimate to the customer. Right. And very easily you'll have two to three, to four to five to six hours over what they brought it in for.
Jimmy Lea: Because there are safety issues on every vehicle that is not being taken care of. Until a shop like yours, Bob steps in and says, these are the things we need to do to keep you safe on the road. So thank you and props to you for doing that. So thorough, DVI. And then the final is tools, scanners, probes.
Jimmy Lea: You've got all of them. Everything. You've got everything. So are you, do you focus, are you all makes and all models or do you focus on European or domestic or Asian, or are you truly open to all.
Bob Ward: All models,
Jimmy Lea: Jimmy. Woohoo.
Bob Ward: Yep. Even light duty diesels we work on, there's a lot more of them now. Yeah, that's true.
Bob Ward: Yep. But there's not a lot that we don't actually, you'll see one time we were goofing around in the shop and I had a lawnmower shop lawnmower. I put it up on the hoist and I had two guys, one with a scanner and one working underneath it. On a creeper say, we work on everything here. Oh, that's hilarious.
Bob Ward: And that got a whack of likes on Facebook when I posted that. Right. Oh, that's awesome. But and every shop has we have a huge following of mini people. Yes. Many. Yep. Yep. And they love to hear that you've got texts that work on minis or a particular car. 'cause everybody's got their favorite cars, but sure, sure.
Bob Ward: You know, if we can work on them all and we have the proper lubricants. To work on them all and maintain the warranties for people's cars, right? Yes. Yes. And that is credibility for the shop.
Jimmy Lea: I love that. And I'll say this too, Bob, not only do I want to know as a consumer, not only do I want to know that you can work on my mini, I want to know that your technician likes working on minis and they enjoy it and they're good at it, and they excel at it.
Jimmy Lea: Because if I bring my mini into you, I don't want to be the first guy that you're fixing. I want to be the 12th in line or the 13th in line because you fixed it 12 times already this year. This is just another day on the week. Yeah, absolutely. Oh, I love it. That is very cool
Bob Ward: because you know, in, in dealerships, and they still do this, they still tell the people, when you buy a car, you've gotta get it serviced with us, and they don't.
Bob Ward: Right. Once you talk to people about that, I look at the oil change stickers that are in there. Now, here's a little nugget I'm gonna give you. Okay. I'm taking notes. Go ahead. When I see a carve with a competitor's oil change sticker on the windshield, I take it off, I go into my label printer and I print one up with the exact mileage that was on that one and the due date, and I put my sticker on the windshield.
Bob Ward: When your car's next for service, you look up there and go Auto guys. Okay. I'll phone them. 'cause my number's on Love it. You can steal a lot of people away just by doing that. Oh, interesting. Okay. But again, if you see the oil chain search I absolutely detest fast lube places.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah,
Bob Ward: the quick
Jimmy Lea: lubes.
Bob Ward: Fast lube. Yes. And we'll tell people that we can, we do it cheaper. We've got licensed techs, we sell ourselves and I can take a lot of people away from these quick lube places simply by looking at the oil change sticker that's there. You've gotta look at all your resources and say, where can I get new business from?
Bob Ward: If an oil change sticker's one of them, and you get one customer from that, your job's done.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Can I tit for tap for you on that as well? Yeah. So right along with your lube oil sticker. What if you put a sticker on the oil filter? If you're a technician looking for a really great place to work, gimme a call.
Jimmy Lea: Awesome. They're gonna call, I'm writing that down. Right on. I love exchanging really good ideas and marketing concepts. Yeah. We know technicians are. Difficult to find these days, and if you can find a good one by putting a sticker on an oil filter and it goes into another bay and another shop and another dealership somewhere down the road.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. It would be great for them to come back and talk to you. I love it. I love it. I love it. You gave me a nugget. There you go. There's the nugget. So Bob, if you were to have a magic wand and you could change anything in this industry, now of course you can't wish for more wishes, but if you could change anything in the industry, what would you alter?
Bob Ward: I would alter the education system for upcoming. Youth. That's the big thing that I would change to not make it shameful to be in a trade. I love it. That's the one thing I would change. Love it. And we're in the process of working on this.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Yeah, that's a big wand. And you are in the trenches, you are working on that big time.
Jimmy Lea: Have you ever watched Mike Rowe and his sweat pledge? Oh yeah. Here in the United States? Yeah.
Bob Ward: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man. He is all over the trades and the trades industry and specifically in the automotive world, he has very specific automotive things that he does for. Technicians and technician training and schooling to really help this industry move forward.
Jimmy Lea: So I applaud you. And I applied Mike Rowe as well. I think that you guys are phenomenal human beings. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you for your wand as well. So what does the what does the future hold for you, Bob? What's next?
Bob Ward: Well, I'm at the point where I'm still gonna start to take some, a little bit more time off here and there.
Bob Ward: Right. Okay. And enjoy things because I built a very good working relationship with my service manager, Nick. Right. And actually we're having a an after hours meeting tomorrow night, and we're gonna make a bunch of policy changes in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Bob Ward: And it's through these meetings that you can keep him A, his input, right, and B, his ideas.
Bob Ward: Where we, you never know where we're gonna go, right? It's more than just raising prices or whatever. It's changing policies and things. And that's the thing that I think we need to focus on is your relationship with your key staff. Okay.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. I love public on that and 'cause
Bob Ward: ideally I can't be in this forever and with all of the online stuff, like I'd be kinda lost without Nick.
Bob Ward: Nick knows the online stuff, but he doesn't know the stuff that I've got up in my head. That's right. And it's my job to share with him that stuff and then he shares the other stuff with me. Right. And helps me along. 'cause I wouldn't be as far along computer wise had it not be for people like Nick.
Jimmy Lea: I love it.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. The two halves make a whole for sure. That's right. That's beautiful. So is Nick on the list? Is he possibly one of your succession plan? Do you Absolutely. You're looking at a key employee situation here. Have you started that process or is it in the beta?
Bob Ward: Well, no, we've started the process.
Bob Ward: It's in the beta, but it's in the late beta stages. And that's one of the things that we're gonna talk about tomorrow night in my meeting with him. Right.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Congratulations. That's awesome. That's awesome that you've got a succession plan and then it becomes the onus comes onto Nick.
Jimmy Lea: Now, Nick, what do you wanna do? Yep. Do you want to optimize a single location? Do you want to really reach out because you've set him up with a beautiful floor plan that he could become a multiple shop operator and have that look and feel of a. Mega shop. You bet. Yeah. That's beautiful. Well, congratulations, Bob.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Bob Ward: My pleasure, Jimmy. Anytime.
Jimmy Lea: All right, brother. Thank you. Well, you're welcome.

155 - Lawn Mowers to Leadership: 40 Years of Lessons at R&N Motor Company

155 - Lawn Mowers to Leadership: 40 Years of Lessons at R&N Motor Company
October 10, 2025 - 00:46:45
 
Show Summary:
This episode dives into the story of Robert Crawford, owner of R & N Motor Company in Sanford, North Carolina, who’s been turning wrenches and building relationships since 1984. Robert shares how he went from rebuilding lawnmowers as a kid to running a thriving eight-bay shop with his son at the counter and his wife managing the books. He and host Jimmy Lea discuss what it means to grow from technician to owner, how to measure success beyond sales, and the importance of creating a culture where people want to stay. From lessons learned through failed ventures to his philosophy on mentorship, training, and preparing for retirement, Robert’s story is a blueprint for longevity in the automotive business.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Robert Crawford, Shop Manager of R&N Motor Company
 
Show Highlights:
[00:05:12] - Jimmy and Robert laugh about shop locations, customer parking, and the realities of Google Street View.[00:09:18] - Robert’s early start: rebuilding lawnmowers in middle school and landing his first shop job in 1984.[00:10:44] - How Robert bought the business through sweat equity and kept his mentor’s legacy alive.[00:13:16] - The slow, guided transition from tech to owner—and “What would Mr. Peewee do?” leadership.[00:18:13] - Tracking gross profit per hour as the shop’s key performance indicator.[00:21:05] - Why Robert switched to Tekmetric and added Detect Auto to improve maintenance opportunities.[00:28:05] - Future plans: retiring with his wife, passing the business to his son, and avoiding rental pitfalls.[00:34:54] - The costly exhaust franchise mistake that taught him to always research before investing.[00:38:04] - His wish for the industry: faster growth in trades education and more hands-on apprenticeships.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
JImmy Lea: Hello friend, this is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and this you are listening to is the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Robert, and Robert is the owner of R and N Auto out of North Carolina. Is that right? Robert r and n Motor Company? Yes, sir. R and m Motor Company.
JImmy Lea: That's awesome. And we were just in North Carolina at the Asta Trade Show. Were you at Asta? Yes, sir. We brought our whole crew. Oh, that's awesome. I can't believe I missed you there.
Robert Crawford: Yeah.
JImmy Lea: How was that? Oh, the whole crew. The whole crew. That's awesome. What did they think of the conference? The training?
Robert Crawford: They always enjoy it. Sometimes the training can get a little bit below you when you're there participating in the class, but, you know, I understand the training has to be a broad range for different people, so it's gonna be that way. Yep. Well, and you know, if.
JImmy Lea: If you're a tech and you're sitting in a basic breaks class, but you're a master tech, go find another class.
Robert Crawford: Well, I can give an example. Yeah, gimme an example. They did that actually. They were in an ADOS class and we have a brand new ados mobile unit. I think it's the IW 700, and the instructor brings out a plumb bob and a string. We don't use that. We've got the lasers on the machine and all that. So we, they were like, really?
Robert Crawford: So, and that was the things that they mentioned to me. But overall, you're always gonna glean something out of a class no matter what it is.
JImmy Lea: I agree. Especially if you're looking for that nugget. If you're looking for that one bit of information that makes all the difference. And you know, even though we have the lasers and that sort of thing.
JImmy Lea: Understanding the origins of, Hey, look guys, if your lasers get messed up for a minute, you can use this plumb bob to really dial it in. Make sure you're right.
Robert Crawford: Right. But you know, all the techs got, they all want the bells and whistles. They don't really want the down to earth back in the day stuff, you know?
Robert Crawford: Yeah. Right.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and it's true. I mean, so for those texts that, that are on the cutting edge. They want all the bells and whistles. They want the latest, greatest, the new color scheme. You know that's all great and everything, but if you understand where it's come from, it's gonna help you that much better to be a better technician.
Robert Crawford: Right. One of our new, this is his first time going with us and he really liked it. He took a lot of the basic classes and he enjoyed himself.
JImmy Lea: Good. Good. So he signed up to go next year? Yes, sir. Good Lord. Willing. Yeah. Good Lord will. Hey. And you know, we're in the same location next year. Yeah. That, what'd you think of that conference center?
Robert Crawford: I'm gonna tell you, at first I was a little the drive there was a little stressful, but once I got in the parking deck after the lady up there drove me crazy, I thought the facility was fantastic. We were right across the street in a hotel. We walked, never got in the car until I had to leave. And the facility the Civic center was great.
Robert Crawford: I spent about a hundred, yeah. Coffee shop. But yeah,
JImmy Lea: it was a good facility. Yeah, that was a good facility. I loved that. I thought the convention center itself was big and it provided us a room for everything we wanted to do. The thing that got me was, yeah, there was a bit of walking involved.
JImmy Lea: There was a lot of up and down and escalators and I'm sure we were on three different floor. Three, four. Yeah. We had four floors. Wow, I missed out on that top floor. So the top floor was the ballrooms. That's where all the meals was.
Robert Crawford: Right.
JImmy Lea: The main floor registration had four or six classrooms around the corner.
JImmy Lea: The set, the third floor down had six classrooms down that hallway, and then the basement was where the vendors were, where the trade show was. I call it the basement. It's probably the first floor.
Robert Crawford: Yeah, well it was neat 'cause I came down the escalator with my co with my phone, was taking a video going down the escalator overlooking the show.
Robert Crawford: It was pretty impressive.
JImmy Lea: Yes I did, I thoroughly enjoyed that location and we have the ability of expanding out through two more spaces the exact same size as that, so we can grow this conference quite a bit. I'm super excited for it. I
Robert Crawford: don't know. I kind of like having the tattoo people next door.
Robert Crawford: 'cause that was very
JImmy Lea: interesting. Well, it was, did you notice on the first day we were all intermingled and then by the second day it was like, all right, you guys use these doors and you guys use these doors. I was like wait.
Robert Crawford: And
JImmy Lea: so mingled, these are our people.
Robert Crawford: Yeah. They did a good job of like keeping the two trades apart, so that was good.
JImmy Lea: Not bad. A little bit better than the experience I had in Minneapolis, Minnesota when we showed up and it was at the exact same time we had the Ratchet and Wrench conference and it was the furry migration.
Robert Crawford: Oh yeah.
JImmy Lea: Oh yeah, that's right. Enough said about that. That's different podcast for a different time, and we haven't had enough adult beverages to talk about that one yet.
JImmy Lea: So let's talk about Robert. You own a phenomenal shop. You 299, 5 star reviews on Carfax 648 reviews on Google. You've got a 4.9 rating. You're just really killing it. You're doing really well. How in the world does your shop being that close to the freeway, how do people get in that front door?
JImmy Lea: And if you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to search it online because this boy's front door, he must have barely a shoulder for people to walk down. At least that's what it looks like. Robert, tell me about it.
Robert Crawford: It's actually not as bad as it sounds on from you. It's if you go to 4 21 through downtown Sanford, it is a four lane highway, but it's 35 miles an hour there.
Robert Crawford: We're on a turnoff off that, the second building off of that, and it's really a two lane road. It just has wide lanes and it's slow traffic through there. So we're just a rock throw from the main high, which is actually a good thing.
JImmy Lea: Yeah, that is a good thing, being so close to the freeway, that's nice.
JImmy Lea: That's really nice. Do you have a lot of people that pull in the gates and park and then walk on the inside gates? 'cause I noticed there's a door on the inside of the gate as well as the outside.
Robert Crawford: We try to keep, we have yellow signs of, you know, signs for people who wanna obey signs. I don't really want people pulling in the gate because we're backing out of the building parts.
Robert Crawford: People are there. And we've had a couple of almost collisions there before. We actually had one customer hit another car while they pulled their car in. So we tell people, please park in front of the building. So between us and our building, between our front door and the street, there's enough room for two rows of cars and there's a sidewalk there.
Robert Crawford: So we want them to go there. Park
JImmy Lea: in front. Oh dude. Okay. Then I'm totally misled by the pictures I saw. It looks like your front door is. It's right on the shoulder of the freeway. Google Me man. Google me. I did. That's the way I was looking. I was looking at your Facebook page. That's what I was looking at.
JImmy Lea: So yeah, I'll have to go on Google Street so I can see. So you two cars, two rows, and then you got a sidewalk and then the freeway. So you, yeah, you got plenty of room. You wanna see somebody who is right on the freeway, go to Performance place in South Jordan, Utah. Tracy Holt owns that shop. He is.
JImmy Lea: Quite literally on the freeway. On the freeway I think there's, there is a sidewalk and there's a little strip of grass, but it's only like a two foot wide strip of grass. You're your one sneezed away from getting hit if you're standing on that sidewalk. It used to be that they had a bunch of room, went back when they built it, but then eminent domain, they could just kept taking land.
JImmy Lea: Now it's almost to the front door, like it, it wouldn't even pass code today. That's another story. I love your shop. I love what you're doing. I love that you're in North Carolina. I'm glad you were at Asta. That is a heck of a show. Can't wait to see you again there next year. And you're right.
JImmy Lea: Having the motel or the hotel Marriott down the street or across the street and the, there were like six different hotels that were super close, made it super easy and convenient for everything.
Robert Crawford: And last year when we went, we had to drive. And when you've gone to the party room and you've gone to the go-karts and you're a little bit.
Robert Crawford: You've had your extra limit of two beers, you don't really need to be driving around. So that just makes it nice. I don't have to worry about my guys.
JImmy Lea: Bingo. Yeah. How far is home to the show in Raleigh?
Robert Crawford: If you are in Raleigh and you take number one south, we're about 45, 50 miles, right off number one.
Robert Crawford: That freeway you keep talking about intersects with number one, two miles down the road. So we're, it's a, oh, I love it For us and honestly we yeah. For the show and come home at night. It was a late night. Sure. We come home and get up the next morning.
JImmy Lea: Right. But thank you for getting the hotel rooms that makes everybody this decisions are cleaner, easier.
JImmy Lea: We can all stay right there. That's awesome. So Robert, let's go back in time. How did you get involved in the automotive repair?
Robert Crawford: I've always been kind of mechanically inclined. I even in middle school, I would actually rebuild lawnmower engines for my neighbors and I asked mom, did you really to come and finish this engine?
Robert Crawford: She says, as long as you get good grades, that'd be fine. So I'd skip school and finish rebuilding the engines on lawnmowers for friends and neighbors and people like that. I've always done that. I had bicycles and riding mowers and when my stepfather had a garage, you know, in school they ask you, what do you wanna be when you grow up?
Robert Crawford: I wanted the gas pumps outside in a two bay garage since I was in the eighth grade. You know, that was my dream. So it worked out great. I've been very blessed. But to go back to what you're asking me. The boss of RNA Motors, John p Rosser, his son and me went to school from the fourth grade on. So when he was in high school, he was asking him, do you know anybody who can bring in and train?
Robert Crawford: So in 11th and 12th grade, I took automotive tech one and two and he brought me in. So right outta high school June of 1984, that's been a long time ago. We sat on his back porch and he interviewed me next to his pool and he wanted someone that can come in and he could train. So I've been there ever since.
Robert Crawford: Now. Me and my wife had been running the business for them up until 2014 where he passed away. Loved him like a daddy, but we all know things are gonna happen, and we literally bought the business with sweat equity. We didn't buy the business. We ran it for a long time While they were there, we paid them a check to stay home and travel around in their motor home.
Robert Crawford: Ran it like it was ours. I tell people it was like living with a woman for 10 years and then you get married, you put the marriage certificate in the file cabinet, and you're still the same way. That's what it was to me in 2014 when the paperwork was signed. Me and my wife had been running it for 15 years anyway, so it was just a, an official deal and now we're going there.
JImmy Lea: So I've been Robert, congratulations. Thank you. 1984. Brother. That's a long time. 40 plus years you've been running this show. Most people can pay
Robert Crawford: for their house with their W twos, but I've only had one.
JImmy Lea: Oh, that's hilarious, Robert. Oh, that's so true. That's so true. And what about your friend that you went to high school with whose daddy did own the shop? Where's he at? What's he doing?
Robert Crawford: He's actually had some health issues and he's at home now because he really can't work well. And his mother, who was like, I think she's like 96, he kind of helps take care of her.
Robert Crawford: Whoa. Yeah, she's still got a great mind. She's still sharp as attack. Of course, Mr. Officer passed away in 2014. Yes, and I love like a mom and I call her mama.
JImmy Lea: Oh, that's great. That's great. I've been there for so long.
Robert Crawford: She's like, like family to me,
JImmy Lea: you know? Oh yeah, of course. Well, there's the family you're born to and there's a family you choose and these family, that becomes part of your choice.
JImmy Lea: Isn't that nice? Oh, it really is. It really is. That's what like the shops say, oh, we treat you like family. All right, hold on. Time out. Is that the family you like or the family you tolerate?
Robert Crawford: It's like talking to a technician. What would you do if it was your car? We know what the technician would do.
Robert Crawford: Bubble gum
JImmy Lea: and bailing. Wire. I just get yeah. That's right. Oh, that's funny. So, so did your buddy, did you and your buddy work together in the shop for a while or did he go a different route?
Robert Crawford: We did. In 1984, when I started there, me and him worked there for like six, eight years. But then he wanted to do something different, so he became a volunteer fireman and then a truck driver.
Robert Crawford: It was never really in his makeup to run the business, and it was pretty evident. And now we're still friends. Matter of fact, he brought his mom by the shop the other day, so everything's cool there. But it's, he, it wasn't, that's great. Not everybody can do this.
JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert. No, that's so true. So what was one of the biggest challenges you faced going from turning a wrench to being a manager, going from a manager to being an owner?
JImmy Lea: What does that transition look like for you, Robert?
Robert Crawford: I would say that it really was beneficial for the man I worked for, because he led me through that process. I was rebuilding transmissions next to him and when customers would come in. There was people that wanted to talk to Peewee, and there was people that would come in and I'd go talk to them.
Robert Crawford: So as he phased outta working there and riding around in the motor home, I gently took over the everyday operations. In 20 2002, his wife said, Peewee, I'm going to the house. She was retiring, so that was when my wife came in and started running the office, and then we started doing computers and all that stuff.
Robert Crawford: So it was a slow transition, but it was a good transition. I always had my backup plan. You know, some people have that. What would Jesus do? Bracelet I had, what would Mr. Peewee do? What would boss my Rosser do if he was here? And I just kind of went through problems like that. What would Rosser do in this situation?
Robert Crawford: Because I'd been with him at that time, 20 years. So I just kind of did what I thought he would do. And eventually I didn't ask that anymore. I just did it.
JImmy Lea: And then it became what would Robert do?
Robert Crawford: Yeah. And now I'm hoping my son Ryan says, what would dad do?
JImmy Lea: Is your boy in the business?
Robert Crawford: Yeah. You saw him at the A STA con the con the conference there.
JImmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome.
Robert Crawford: My son Ryan runs the counter for us. He's the service advisor, so he's the primary and I'm kind of the floating back and forth. Sometimes I get a part, sometimes I'm helping outside. Sometimes I do some shop stuff. Had a 67 Torino gt and honestly, the new technicians don't know the old stuff, so they call me the old guy and I work on some of the old stuff, so I bu that motor, that was kind of fun.
JImmy Lea: Oh, I'll bet that was fun. Especially a Grand Torino. Holy smokes. That's a beautiful car. So much fun. Well, I'm glad your son's in the business. Now the legacy lives on right back to Mr. Peewee is r and n. So I thought RNN was Robert and your wife.
Robert Crawford: I tease people and say, it's Robert and no other than Cher, but it was r and n and it, and if you look on our website, we've got a little bio there.
Robert Crawford: It was John Rosser. And Caldwell Norris, they worked back in the fifties at the Ford dealership, so that when they left the dealership and started their own, Ross also liked working on cars. Norris liked work, liked selling cars, and it was a used car dealer way back in the day. And eventually he bought his partner out and we just got to working on cars only.
Robert Crawford: So I don't want sell used cars. God bless everybody who does.
JImmy Lea: Oh yeah, my uncle did it in Vegas. I think he turned 19, 20 cars a month. He had a very small lot buy here, pay here type of deal.
Robert Crawford: Yeah,
JImmy Lea: I think he repossessed 80% of the cars that he sold.
Robert Crawford: Yeah. That's a whole nother business in my opinion.
Robert Crawford: It's hard to mix those
JImmy Lea: two. Oh, it's, it is very hard to mix those two. I totally agree. And the repair business that you've been in is phenomenal. It's awesome. I applaud you for going from a master tech into the management, from management into ownership. How, what do, what is what, how, what do you do to pull yourself out of the mix of working in the business?
JImmy Lea: Now you are working on the Grand Torino and so you're the old guy. You're the only one that could work on these cars. Some of 'em. Some of 'em, yeah. What do you do to be able to pull yourself out to work on the business? Not in the business.
Robert Crawford: I just wish hats right. We all wear a lot of hats. It's really just an easy transmission for me.
Robert Crawford: For me to walk out the service counter and go out there and advise someone on how to fix something, it just, you know, you do what you do. Yeah, just like, it's like my wife being at the shop and working in the office and then coming home and cooking supper. It is just what we do. It's really not right.
Robert Crawford: It's not a challenge for me. Matter of fact, it's probably more of a challenge for me to be the owner because I don't like numbers. I didn't like doing school math and I don't like doing it now. It's kinda like in our church group when they have you do a small group and they give you homework.
Robert Crawford: I don't wanna do homework anymore, but there is a lot of that, you know? So you have to deal with that. She's great with the books. She does the office and I do the work in the shop and deal with that stuff, and she pays the bills at work and I pay the bills at home. So we split it up that way. But it's just, oh, there you go.
Robert Crawford: That's all occurrence. To go from one job to the other.
JImmy Lea: I love it. I love it. And you know, Robert when those numbers become dollars and dollars become ability to buy and it gives you those freedom and those choices, the numbers become a little bit more fun than right. One plus one equals two.
JImmy Lea: Yeah I completely agree. Algebra, geometry, calculus, trigonomic it's all. Relative once that number now is a dollar and a dollar in your bank and a soldier working for you, it becomes much more fun to work them numbers.
Robert Crawford: Right.
JImmy Lea: So do you say your wife does all the books, she does the numbers for the shop.
JImmy Lea: Do you keep your pulse on that? You know what's happening?
Robert Crawford: Yeah. We, me and my son both do a lot of the legwork, like she does QuickBooks, so you know, everything. Nowadays we use tech metric, it all goes through the software. It's all love it, it all gets popped into QuickBooks, so she handles that part of it.
Robert Crawford: But there's a lot that we do at the service desk, making sure our GP per hour is right, making sure our gross profits right. You know, all those numbers are important and although I don't like them it's part of it. It's what you've gotta do.
JImmy Lea: Yeah.
Robert Crawford: We had Rick White as a coach for quite a while, and he gave us a lot of good tools, good Excel spreadsheets.
Robert Crawford: Oh, that's a spooky word. Excel spreadsheets. But it's a tool. It helps us do what we gotta do. You can work all day long, but if you don't make a dollar, well good. Is it? So you've gotta have those numbers in place.
JImmy Lea: Yeah, so true. So what's one of those key performance indicators for you in your mind that really dials in, that you are profitable, functioning, efficient?
JImmy Lea: What is one of those KPIs for you, Robert, that you look at as that indicator?
Robert Crawford: To me, gross profit hours is the important one. That's the one that I look at the most because if you look at, you can have your atec doing an oil change. If you're not making any money of that, your gross profit hours is like 60, 60, $70 there.
Robert Crawford: If you have your ctech who's doing the sweeping up a little bit, doing some things here, you're teaching him the business you're doing, walking 'em through some brake jobs. He does oil change. You're making some money on your oil changes, and the way we buy our oil in bulk, we have a pro program with Valvoline where we're buying product at a really good price so we can afford to mark it up and actually make some money.
Robert Crawford: We're making money off oil changes, but. Again, it's all about the gross profit per hour to me.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Gross profit dollars per hour. That's phenomenal. That's what we keep
Robert Crawford: our, that's the pulse we keep our finger on. There's a lot of other numbers out there. Car counts and an average ro, but you know, you take average ro, that means nothing.
Robert Crawford: If you do 20 oil changes and then you do five engines, it means nothing. You got tickets that are seven, six grand. You got tickets that are. $90. It's all about the mix of things. At the end of the day, you wanna make sure you're making a net profit, right? That's what, that's everybody's favorite number of the net.
JImmy Lea: Yes, that's exactly it. So after your gross do gross dollars per hour, how much do we take home? And I understand why you're looking at the gross profit per hour, on the daily, on the hourly, the net. You gotta control the expenses. You gotta control, and that's not something you need to look at hourly.
JImmy Lea: That's something that you look at and say, wait a second, why are we spending so much here? Why are we spending so much here? We can cut back. We can, we don't need this software, we don't need this power tool. We don't need this subscription.
Robert Crawford: And that's a good plug for tech metric because we switched over from the other program we had vein program and three other sister programs.
Robert Crawford: And although Tetric might not be the most beautiful DBI out there, it's a DBI, it gets the job done. And. To me, when you give customers paperwork, it's kinda like the church bulletin. Nobody reads that thing. They're all asking the preacher, when are we gonna do this? Did you read the church bulletin? Well, you give, it's all the bullet.
Robert Crawford: Your customers, you give them all these dvs and all these beautiful colors, they don't even look at the thing. They still come back and say, you know, what do we need to do next? So, yeah, you gotta have something to hand out, something to back up what you're showing them. But it's all about, you know. The Tech Metric program does everything we needed to do.
Robert Crawford: Now, we did add another program just this week, it's called Detect Auto. The maintenance work that people let go is astronomical, and that's what I really want to do away with. I want at least give the customer the opportunity to say, your transition hasn't been servicing 150,000 miles. If you want it to live, we really need to do something with that.
Robert Crawford: The Detect auto program that we just implemented is taking care of that part. Now we can at least offer it. It's all about,
JImmy Lea: yes,
Robert Crawford: about you don't wanna do 750 oil units in the week. You want to have car count, but you wanna maximize what's going on with those cars. You have, not just staying busy, but staying productive.
Robert Crawford: GP per hour equals net profit.
JImmy Lea: Yes. Yes. And in fact, that's one of the. The key award ceremony that we do with the institute is we put out the awards based on the net profit. It's not about how much you sold, it's about how much did you take home, how much did you put in the bank. So we have a hundred thousand dollars club, a $200,000, $300,000 club.
JImmy Lea: We even have one person in our $1 million net profit club. God
Robert Crawford: bless
JImmy Lea: him.
Robert Crawford: Right. It this hard to blue. That's hard to do. Yeah. You could have the most efficient work structure in the shop, and then when it goes to QuickBooks, we're paying our employee a hundred percent of the Blue Cross Blue Shield. That's a big wp, not a lot of places to do that.
Robert Crawford: Then we're doing 401k and then we're doing vacation times, so we're supplying uniforms. There's a lot of overhead and you really gotta trim that fat to keep those numbers down so you can have something. And then when you do have the net profit, what are you doing with that? Are you taking it home and buying a beach house and everybody hates you for it?
Robert Crawford: Or are you investing the back of the business? There are certain things that happen at the shop that are cash things and you know, you try to take care of your employees, so you always wanna share the wealth with them because they're how you got it. You can't do it without them. Yeah.
JImmy Lea: Oh, it's so true.
JImmy Lea: So, and that goes to the training that you're doing, taking everybody to asta, the hotels, the food, the travel, the. The training that's there and paying for all the expenses that go along with it, it's gotta be worked into your business model. And so ultimately, who's paying for it? The client, the customer and why are they paying for it?
JImmy Lea: Why are they happy to pay for it? Because they know that by them bringing their car to you, they're getting the best. They're getting the best service. They're getting the best knowledge. They're getting the best repairs because they know that you are the one that's out there getting trained. You're not just sitting back only fixing The Grand Torino's.
Robert Crawford: Right.
JImmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Congrats. So you've been at this one location since 84. How many bays, how many techs, what's the footprint look like today?
Robert Crawford: We have eight bays that have lifts. One of those is a 16,000 pound scissor lift for the alignment rack. We have another one of those eight bays that has an 18,000 pound bend pack.
Robert Crawford: So we get box trucks coming in from our airer guys. We can raise line up to take care of 'em. We have another two bays that we can pull cars in that can be on the ground. There's not a lift there. Technician wise, we have two ATECs. We have a new guy that's bringing on board, I'm gonna call him a c and a half really great guy.
Robert Crawford: Has a good attitude, good worth ethic. He just hasn't got the experience. He's actually right out of the Marine Corps, which is great. He's a good guy and he has structure. Yeah. And he really is, he's gonna go somewhere in this business. So that's what it looks like. And of course we've got the waiting area and bathrooms and all that stuff, but we've got enough parking lot to fit 25 cars.
Robert Crawford: So. What's really unique about our place is when the wreckers come in, we have them back, the cars up the hill, and then one nick mechanic gets in, it pops in a neutral and rolls it right in the vein. I don't have to push anything, so that's always, that's worked out really well for us.
JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert, that's great that's such a great way of doing it.
JImmy Lea: That's perfect, man. I'm too old to be pushing cars, man. Oh, amen, brother. Oh, so three techs, eight, nine Bays. Eight bays with lifts. Yes. Eight bays with lifts. Oh man, that's great. And 25 cars. So that's just in the parking lot. 25 cars. That doesn't mean what you can fit inside the building too. Right.
Robert Crawford: Well, we can park, we have 25 parking spaces out in the parking lot.
Robert Crawford: And I know that, 'cause Elia told me that's what I could do out there. So that's what we did. Inside of course, you know, it's like nowadays you gotta be careful of the neighborhood. You know, people will break into stuff and tear things up. So when we have cars in our building and we're going off of the weekend or like the long train, the training seminar.
Robert Crawford: We pull everything in. We have put cars on the rack and pulled another one under it if we have to. So we get the nice cars in. Anything that will run, we bring in every night just to keep everything safe, you know? But yeah, we can pack 'em in there pretty good.
JImmy Lea: Oh, that's pretty good, Robert. That's awesome.
JImmy Lea: Yeah, because that allows you to have a little bit more flexibility. Where performance place, he's got like three and a half acres, so there's plenty of room to put cars that, that they're surrounded with moth balls. You know, this car's been here for four years. Anyways. Well, you gotta keep, well that,
Robert Crawford: you gotta keep the junk outta the way though.
Robert Crawford: You know, you don't want stuff sitting there for three years.
JImmy Lea: Yeah, no, that's true. He had to come to his dad, so he was 40 years. It took him 40 years to be able to buy the shop from his dad. 'cause you know, they just never could get anything down on paper. Couldn't agree, blah, da. Dad, really, this is your business.
JImmy Lea: What do you want to do? And dad would never make a decision. Finally did. So he bought it after 40 plus years. And dad in the back four bays. So they had 16 bays up front. 'cause it just expand. The last four bays, they finally said, Hey dad, take all your cars and take all your dead bodies. The rv, the boat, right?
JImmy Lea: We're gonna put it out in the yard. You can come see it anytime you want, but this is now production. Right. So that's what he is doing. Well, and congrats to you for what you've got the 25, the technicians, the lifts. What does the future look like for you? What is the future of RNN Otto, you've got your son there working with you now as well.
JImmy Lea: What does the next five years, 10 years look like? If we were to chop that up?
Robert Crawford: Well, if I listen to my wife, she wants to retire at 62, so she's got another two years to do the office, and then I'm probably gonna have to find someone to take care of that part of it. I'm 59 and I really don't wanna work till I'm 80 years old.
Robert Crawford: I like the work, but I don't like it enough to be there that long. So I'd like to retire at 65. I really don't know what the future holds for retirement. Do I sell it? Do I keep it and let my son run it? Gives my guys my mechanics. A place to stay. It's always spooky when you sell something 'cause you don't know how your workers are gonna be treated and how that's gonna be.
Robert Crawford: And honestly, they are my friends. I was at one guy's house this weekend moving some split wood with the tractor for, you know, so we do things with each other. We're friends and workers. I honestly don't know. I'm leaving it to him to decide how all that works out. I'll do what I can.
Robert Crawford: Yeah. Business running and keep it profitable. And if Christian brothers wants to come down and buy me out, or if, you know, if my son decides he wants to take it over or like we did with my boss, he rode around in the motor home. We paid him a paycheck. Yeah. Rent check. I'm not sure what the future holds.
Robert Crawford: I'm open.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and if your son is open for the opportunity, if he looks at it and says, Hey, you know what? There's a great opportunity here for me to buy dad out and put dad and mom out on a motor home and they can go fishing, they can sit on the beach, they can go to the mountains whatever you want to go, and he pays you the rent.
JImmy Lea: Right. That's a great opportunity. So depending on where you're going, what you're doing, yeah, there's lots of opportunities. There's lots of advice out there. Just make sure you're getting the right advice. Right. And maybe the right advice is to sell it to Christian brothers. We'll see. You never know.
JImmy Lea: We'll see. That's
Robert Crawford: right.
JImmy Lea: That I don't ever,
Robert Crawford: I try not to make promises and I try not to make big decisions that you really can't control a lot of things. You know, some things are gonna happen and you gotta go with the flow. You wanna be prepared, do what you can do the legwork. But we'll see how it works out.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yep. I've heard it said that if you if you fail to plan, then you plan to fail. So if you've got a plan and God comes in and says, wait a second, Robert, we're gonna do a little bit this way. We're gonna do a little bit this way. I know that you had a plan, but there's just a little deviation from it.
Robert Crawford: Right.
JImmy Lea: Better to have a plan than to have no plan whatsoever. So, yeah, if you're, I tell you what
Robert Crawford: I
JImmy Lea: don't
Robert Crawford: wanna do, I don't wanna rent the building up to somebody. Someone comes in and they rent up your equipment, they wear it out, they dump all in the parking lot, then they walk away, and now you're responsible for all that mess, digging up the parking lot, EPA fines.
Robert Crawford: So I, I would close it down and sell it for a warehouse before I would do a rental situation like that. I've seen that happen too many times.
JImmy Lea: Oh, Robert, you are so right. You're right on the ball. I've seen many shop owners sell their business and three years later, four years later, they're back in the shop running the business again and basically having to fix everything that had been broken over the last three years.
JImmy Lea: So, yeah I agree with you. Once you find your spot, once you find your ability. Have an agreement that there's a buyout on the property as well. 'cause you're not gonna retain ownership for rent.
Robert Crawford: Yeah. The whole shebang or nothing.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So would you ever expand, Robert, would you ever expand and own a second, a third of fourth location, or just optimize the one.
Robert Crawford: I kind of tease my wife a lot when we're driving around. I'll say, Hey, that looks like going to number three. She, and she disagrees with me, like, you know, with a few declaratives. I really think for me personally, running the one is enough. We don't have a grandiose of lifestyle. We're our, everything we have is paid for.
Robert Crawford: The business is paid for, the land is paid for, the billing's paid for, and we don't really require a lot to be happy. We don't really go into the MEChA, into the material things. I got a new truck. I got some guns, and you know, things that I play with she's happy to read a book when we go to the beach.
Robert Crawford: She wants to sit in the swing and read a book, and I sure don't wanna lay out on the sand and become a lobster. So, you know, to us, you know, running one business is enough, we don't require the additional income. You know what I'm saying? Oh yeah. And then the challenge is with just one business, low along the strain of two you gotta have some really good people in place to run two businesses and you not be there.
Robert Crawford: It's, you know, when I can go off for a week and my son run the place and make decisions that I'm not there. I would never complain if he made a decision. He has to have that freedom. But to have somebody running your business 24 7 and you are not there to, to you come back in when it's on fire, you know, you come back to fix the problems, that would be hard for me to deal with.
Robert Crawford: I'm good with just running one, doing well with it. You know, it's paying us, it's paying our salaries, it's paying our guys salaries. We're good where we're at. You know, no desires for a second
JImmy Lea: building. Oh, amen. Amen. So in the definition of success, you have a very successful shop. It provides for all your wants and all your needs, and everything's paid for.
JImmy Lea: You're good to go. You could leave for a week. Your son's in charge. He makes the decisions. You come back, Hey, this was good. Perhaps in the future with this decision, we wanna consider this, and this as well. Maybe we wanna go around a bump instead of straight up and over.
JImmy Lea: You never know, but I applaud your reigning in and giving freedom to your son in those situations and letting him make those decisions. That's pretty awesome. A lot of people can't do that. You know?
Robert Crawford: It's a hard thing to walk away from. It's a hard thing to step back and let people do.
Robert Crawford: But you have to, otherwise you have to be there 24 7. And you gotta, if you wanna freedom, you gotta give a little freedom to them too, to make those decisions. And to make those mistakes and learn from 'em. Because that's how we all are, isn't it?
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, it is how we learn. We learn more from our mistakes than we do our successes.
JImmy Lea: And you know, with that in mind, Robert, I'm gonna ask you a question. What has been one of your biggest failures that you personally. Witnessed or were involved in, and it turned around to be one of your greatest successes. You learn the most from this lesson. What's one of those things that you've learned the most from a failure that is now a guidepost or a lamp or a lighthouse in your life that really helps to guide you?
Robert Crawford: Well. Back. I don't remember when it was or how many years ago it was, but we bought like an exhaust franchise, and I won't mention the name of it. We got some good equipment and we got a lot of inventory, but it never really blossomed into anything custom exhaust nowadays. This has been years, like 15, 20 years ago.
Robert Crawford: And we got this exhaust franchise and it never did anything. Now we still have the exhaust pipe bender. Matter of fact, my, one of my technicians is using it when I left today to come home for this podcast, so we still have the equipment, but that was $30,000. And back then, ouch, 30,000 was 50,000 now, you know, and it never was profitable.
Robert Crawford: So if I had to glean anything from that mistake, I would be. Check the market, find out what the market will stand, find out what the opportunities are before you go plopping that much cash down. Because the problem with that is, is it's kind of like some of the coaching people that you have out there.
Robert Crawford: You give them a chunk of money and you're paying Wells Fargo for the lease on that chunk of money and you can't back off because you've already paid the money at. Now you gotta buy the lease. It was the same thing with this. I couldn't exactly send the muffler machine back. I had to pay what I had to pay.
Robert Crawford: It was done, right? So you learn these lessons and you next time you're a little bit more apprehensive for you throw a chunk of money at something. You really just learn how to do the homework, check out the numbers, feel the market. And nowadays things are so much better because you've got so many sources.
Robert Crawford: You've got all these groups. Auto owners groups. You've got the Facebook people, you've got business coaches. There's really not a whole lot of reasons to make a lot of stupid mistakes nowadays because there's so many people you can ask and say, what do y'all think about this? I was on a a Thursday night round table meeting with Rick White from 180 Biz, and there was about 20 people there, and there was one guy talking about how he was gonna.
Robert Crawford: Make this particular business move and do something else and we're all like, no, that's not what you want to do, man. You're making a mistake doing this. Yeah. And I thought it was great that he had, although he may not have liked what he was hearing, right. At least he was hearing it. He had people in his corner that really didn't know him from Adam's House Cap, but were willing to give you them.
Robert Crawford: The benefit of their experience is try to guide somebody they didn't even know to do better. Don't make the mistake that I made. So I thought that was great.
JImmy Lea: Man, that is sound advice, especially when you're not necessarily saying, Hey, don't do that. You're saying have you considered this?
JImmy Lea: Have you considered this Once upon a time when I did this is the mistakes I made.
Robert Crawford: Yeah.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. And that's my $17,000 lesson I learned was, get it in writing. Get it in writing. Get it in writing. No matter how many verbal conversations you have, if it's not in writing, they will forget. Yep. Yep. So true.
JImmy Lea: Well, so Robert, if you were to have a magic wand and change anything in this industry, the automotive aftermarket, what's one of those things that you would like to change in this market?
Robert Crawford: I would probably say that the wand is actually being waived as we speak, because I'll tell you what, I've seen a lot of. It's like Mike Rowe with the blue collar worker move. We're seeing now where a lot of families are realizing you don't have to be a doctor, you don't have to be a lawyer, you don't have to be a dental hygienist.
Robert Crawford: Nothing wrong with those, but we need people that will use their hands to do things. We need people to build houses. We need someone to flip a hamburger for now and then, and we definitely need mechanics and I'm seeing a lot of the trades. Coming back to life, for lack of a better term. They're getting more attention.
Robert Crawford: A lot of the tr a lot of the high schools are going back to a a hands-on approach. You've got some of the local colleges, wake Tech has got a great program. Hendricks, I think has opened a whole wing out there, and they're training apprentices. I really think instead of sitting in the classroom atmosphere, they've gotta get those kids out there and get 'em in shops so they can, this is just my opinion.
Robert Crawford: You can learn more in a shop in a month than you're gonna learn in a classroom in two years. I've seen the trade schools and what comes out of them when they, alls they did was the trade school class and they have a little book sense, but they don't really have a lot of common usable knowledge. So I think it's a mixture of trade school and also being in a shop environment and learning.
Robert Crawford: Just be in there, just learning and hearing what's going on. I think that's the magic wand that I'd wave. Let's speed that process up. Get these things moving along a little faster. 'cause everybody knows we need mechanics, we need technicians. Yeah. Things are getting automated. These cars are gonna drive themselves, but they're not gonna fix themselves.
JImmy Lea: Oh, they don't. They don't. And we got 70,000 technicians a year leaving the business. Only 30,000 a year coming into the business. And those 30,000 that come in after the first year, half of 'em are gone. Just like you're saying, Mike Rowe with his sweat pledge, you're gonna work, you're gonna work hard, you're gonna sweat, you're gonna do what's right.
JImmy Lea: You're gonna do what's right. The first time I love his sweat pledge. I love what he's doing and really shining a light on the trade industry. My daughter, when she went into hair school, within that first week of school, they had them hands on cutting hair. That's what we need in the automotive industry as well, not just the theoretical.
JImmy Lea: 'cause there's schools out there. You don't get to touch hair for six months and it's a one year program. They come out, they still are afraid of touching anybody. But my daughter was in a class and they were boom, they were right into it. So we have a granddaughter, it does make difference.
Robert Crawford: Afraid, same thing.
Robert Crawford: She was too scared to cut hair, but you gotta make the move. And, you know, a lot of shop owners have to get above that fear too. You know, back a couple years ago, I'm gonna say about three years ago, maybe four years ago, we had the apprentice program in North Carolina come alive. It had been there forever, but the IGO at the time brought it to life and we had a technician that was going to a local community college here and had certain days he came and worked with us.
Robert Crawford: Now we were paying him that time, 12, $13 an hour to sweep the floor and shadow our mechanics. And unfortunately, after three years, he actually left us and went to a dealership. So you didn't have that risk, but at least there's people going into the field. That we can have. Yeah, you might get somebody that you train up and they may go somewhere else, but they're in the pool and now you can, they might bump someone out of the dealership, and the dealership guy might come to you.
Robert Crawford: I don't know how that's gonna work. We'll find out. But you know, it's like when you said you're guys to training, you're scared they might get poached, you know? Well, Rick White has this thing, he calls golden handcuffs. You gotta treat your people good. So they wanna stay. It's all about making the work environment, like I said about our guys.
Robert Crawford: We're buddies, we're pals, we're friends. You know, we eat subs together, we bowl together. Sometimes we have a good time at the convention. You know, you gotta make it where they want to be there. 'cause if yeah, if you don't wanna be there and they don't wanna be there, someone's gonna leave.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. No, it's so true.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Rick does a great job in coaching and training with the shop owners. Yeah, he's phenomenal. We love working together and the golden handcuffs, you're right. If you're not treating your people well, they're gonna go and listen. You know, dial it back to your marine. He may be one that wants to own a business.
JImmy Lea: So some would say, are you gonna train your competition? Sure. Today, he's not your competition. Today. He is your employee and he has a desire to own a business. You enroll him in every business, every free business thing that you possibly can. The community college has business classes, the Chamber of Commerce does.
JImmy Lea: YouTube has them. The institute has a library full of different business videos that can really help anybody that wants to start an automotive repair business. You help him to be the best business owner he can be. 'cause there's two outcomes that comes from this. One. He loves it. He embraces it, and he runs with it.
JImmy Lea: And in 3, 4, 5 years, whatever the scenario is. He went, goes out and starts his own business, and you've got a friend in the business, somebody that you can lock arms with and really work together. Or two, he comes back to you and says, Hey Robert, thank you so much. I appreciate you investing all this into me for the business side of it.
JImmy Lea: But what I really discovered is I like working on cars. I wanna work on cars. I'm gonna be your best employee. I'm gonna work on cars, and you're never gonna have any comebacks for me, and I'm gonna dig in
Robert Crawford: win-win. Yep.
JImmy Lea: It's a win-win. It's a win-win. You've invested in your employee, you discovered where they really want it to be in helping them to discover their own path, their own trail.
JImmy Lea: So Robert, I applaud you for that, brother.
Robert Crawford: I, competition to me is a kind of a strange word because, just because as a garage where you talk about where we're at on the freeway, you know? Right. There's a probably, I'm gonna say probably 10 shops within a four mile radius around me. There's a garage door there.
Robert Crawford: They're selling used tires. They're doing the monkey business, they're doing alignments and they're doing oil changes. But when you set yourself apart and do the quality work and you do it businesslike, there's gonna be some people that want that bottom dollar price. But there's also gonna be some people that want to deal with the professional business that's gonna have paperwork and warranties have insurance to take care of the stuff.
Robert Crawford: So they're really not your competition. They're really not.
JImmy Lea: Yeah. No, they're really not. I had a friend in Santa Cruz, California, he would send people down the street to Bob's garage, Dave's Auto that's the same address. Three different businesses were in that same address, and he would send people down to them.
JImmy Lea: 'cause they were looking for the deals. They, it was all are driven. And those businesses put themselves out of business because they were catering to that type of business. His was a business that really. Involve the the client. It's a client that wants to know their vehicles fixed right and done right.
JImmy Lea: And has a warranty and a guarantee. And you're gonna pay more for that than if you just want
Robert Crawford: price only. Yeah. We had a call just today that a customer called and wanted us to break a bolt loose, then they're gonna drive off with the car, but the mold were loose.
JImmy Lea: There's those people out there, you know?
JImmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. No, that is interesting. Interesting that was the request.
Robert Crawford: Yeah.
JImmy Lea: Well, Robert, it is been a pleasure talking with you today. Thank you very much. I appreciate your insights into the business, the industry, where it's come from, and yeah, our future is bright. I love that we have an apprentice program.
JImmy Lea: Do you have any apprentice at your shop right
Robert Crawford: now? At the present time? We don't. The guy that we just started out of the Marines, I would probably consider him an apprentice just because he's really at the bottom of the knowledge base. He has such a good drive and such a good work ethic, he's gonna do great.
Robert Crawford: And really, that's what you wanna see in the apprentices. You don't wanna just have a body that's going to school, that's coming there just to milk the clock. If you don't see that spark, that interest, you're just wasting your time in theirs. And there's a lot of people that go to the community colleges just because mommy and dad would make them go to school.
Robert Crawford: You know, you're gonna go to college if you're in here, but if they're not doing anything with that and you're not doing anything with that person. You're just spinning your wheels, wasting time, so just find the next one.
JImmy Lea: Yep. Amen, brother. Thank you so much, Robert. I really appreciate it, man.
Robert Crawford: Yes sir.
JImmy Lea: Yep.
JImmy Lea: We'll talk to you guys soon.
Robert Crawford: Have a good one

154 - Process, People, and Profit: Inside JB Import Auto with Ryan von Steinen

154 - Process, People, and Profit: Inside JB Import Auto with Ryan von Steinen
October 6, 2025 - 00:37:41
 
Show Summary:
What happens when a motorsport kid with a rebuilt BMW and a shattered leg trades the wrench for the front counter and still can’t shake the need for speed? Jimmy Lea sits down with Ryan von Steinen of JB Import Auto in St. Petersburg to trace a career detour that became a superpower: pairing deep technical fluency with world-class customer care. Ryan opens the hood on a shop that balances everyday Euro work with a thriving Rolls-Royce/Bentley program, powered by a clear org chart and an estimator-driven workflow. He shares how a living SOP “Bible,” weekly reviews, and photo-rich DVIs protect margins and build trust. Recruiting is a sport of its own: Trello benches, school partnerships, and “grow-your-own” apprentices. With a five-year plan to stretch a quirky legacy facility to $6.7M, Ryan argues the industry needs real certification, likely nudged by insurers, as ADAS and EV complexity spikes. He closes with blunt succession advice: don’t DIY the deal, get experts, and if it isn’t written, it didn’t happen.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Ryan von Steinen, Chief Operating Officer of JB Import Automotive Repair
 
Show Highlights:
[00:03:34] - Ryan’s love for cars and motorsport started young—autocross at 14—and he pursued high-performance training at the University of Northwestern Ohio.
[00:05:47] - A serious accident two weeks into his dealership job ended wrenching for a season and nudged him toward advising/management where his tech knowledge still shines.
[00:11:24] - After Porsche-heavy experience and a tough management stint, Ryan lands at JB Import, where he’s spent nearly 12 years, holds a small ownership stake, and is executing a five-year growth plan.
[00:13:35] - The shop’s SOP “Bible” is a living document—reviewed weekly and refined with team feedback—so processes evolve instead of collecting dust.
[00:15:23] - Clear org chart: six techs plus a coach/CEO, service manager, two advisors, and an estimator who also handles parts, inventory, and estimate building.
[00:16:41] - RO checklist discipline and an estimator bridge reduce misses between techs and advisors and keep customer communication consistent.
[00:33:03] - DVI standards: minimum photo counts (even on new cars), include positives—not just problems—and always capture four corners and the instrument cluster to prevent disputes.
[00:24:33] - Capacity and mix matter: maximizing one facility first; exotic ROs can be 3–4x Euro “daily” work, but big hurricane projects can skew monthly optics.
[00:20:52] - Recruiting is proactive: Trello follow-ups, open-door visits, and active involvement in local high schools and tech programs to “grow your own.”
[00:26:49] - Industry wish list: real certification/standards (perhaps insurer-driven) as ADAS/EV complexity rises, and solid succession planning with expert guidance and thorough documentation.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello friend. My name is Jimmy Lee. I am with the Institute and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is my very good friend, Ryan von Stein, with JB Import Auto Outta St. Petersburg, Florida. Ryan, thank you so much for joining. How are you this morning?
Ryan von Steinen: Excellent, Jimmy. Happy to be here. So thanks for having me.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man, this is awesome. So, St. Pete is probably the one of the only places that my luggage ever got lost. Here I was flying from Vegas to St. Pete and right about mid states. It hangs a hard left. The plane does. Everybody feels it hard left. We were flying into Dallas and then from Dallas we were going into St.
Jimmy Lea: Pete with Tampa. Yeah. And, and as we're coming in towards Dallas Hard Bank left. They said, Dallas is having an ice storm. We can't land there. We're going to Denver. And I was like, oh, okay, great. We're going to Denver. Never fear your flights have already been rescheduled. When you get on the ground, it's all set.
Jimmy Lea: Everybody's good to go. Your luggage will go wherever it is your final destination is. I was like, oh, sweet. Great. So I land in town. I have 45 minutes. From land, get off the plane, not really four, five minutes. It was more like 15 minutes and I walked right onto my next plane. So I really went from gate to gate and I was right on the next plane, which was wonderful.
Jimmy Lea: So I get to Tampa, Hey, can you scan and my codes and see where my luggage is? 'cause it hasn't come out on the conveyor yet. It's not in the oversized, and I'm looking for my booth. It's not there. And she says, yeah, I figured with you. Oh, I'm so sorry that somewhere over Denver, your luggage broke hands.
Jimmy Lea: They were holding hands up to Denver, but then they weren't holding hands anymore. Half of it went to Dallas. The other half is in Chicago. I wasn't even going to Chicago, but it's in Chicago. It's like, all right. All right. So what's the plan? Well, half of it'll be here by midnight. The other half will come about, four 30 in the morning.
Jimmy Lea: I said, great. I'll come back for that one half that comes at midnight, because I need that. That's very important. It was the whole booth. Here I am at a trade show. I have to have the booth. Right. You gotta Yeah. Half show off who you are.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. I figured if you're traveling, that's it.
Jimmy Lea: Right. So I had a car, I came back, I got the booth, put it in the truck. I took it over to the, trade show, and the next morning my second package showed up in a clear plastic bag. It had gone full blown yard sale. Oh, everything was strewn out all over the place. Oh, so hilarious.
Ryan von Steinen: Dang, man. I'm sorry. Not a good Tampa reception.
Jimmy Lea: Hey. No. Tampa was phenomenal. They brought it all over there. It wasn't Tampa's fault. I got mad props for Southwest as I showed up to pick up my booth at midnight. She hands me a voucher for like $150 off your next flight. Okay. Yeah. Oh, sweet. There's loyalty for life. And I do. I fly Southwest everywhere I go, so it's a good thing.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah, I get it, man. That makes sense.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Loyalty. It goes a long way.
Ryan von Steinen: It does, man does. I'm stuck there too. So,
Jimmy Lea: hey, so Ryan, how did you get into the automotive industry? What does that look like when you started? Are you a baby sweeping the floors or you in high school? What's the catalyst here that gets you involved?
Ryan von Steinen: I liked cars from really young age, but I had, my mom's side of the family was into the Indianapolis 500, and I grew up in Michigan. And it was like a grandfather that grew up listening to it on the radio, so that was always a big event every year and somewhere around when I was maybe about eight, my dad autocross to used BMW and that really just started it where I was obsessed with motorsport, most especially, but cars and motorsports, you know?
Jimmy Lea: I love it. How old were you when you learned to drive?
Ryan von Steinen: I learned to dry when I was about 12 in the woods up on some dirt roads. Yeah. And I taught across when I was 14, so yeah,
Jimmy Lea: dude. I love it. I love it. Yeah. I was nine and we went to Canna, Utah. We drove from the house to the barn and back. If you went another halfway that was a mile and one summer we put 10,000 miles on this little 73 Toyota Corolla.
Jimmy Lea: Holy cow. Go into the barn and back, dude. I mean, holy cow. At nine years old, you thought we, we had freedom. That was freedom. Driving was freedom.
Ryan von Steinen: 10,000 miles of freedom. That's amazing.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Well, we stayed there for a month, so it, yeah, it was dawn until dusk that we were just driving that and grandma and grandpa loved it.
Jimmy Lea: It was, oh man, it was such great, it was cool. Didn't. So you started, with BMW Motocross.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. Yeah, like my dad was like lightly into autocross. We always had used BMWs. And then I went to a high school in Michigan that had a pretty great autobody program. So I did that and I had an awesome instructor and I redid a old E 21, the first three series BMW, my senior year with that program.
Ryan von Steinen: But I was more interested in mechanical work. Okay. And all those autobody schools have. You know, UTI and WTI at the time, all these training institutes that come around. So I signed up and went to the University of Northwestern Ohio. They had a degree you could get with it, so I was interested in that.
Ryan von Steinen: So I haven't applied science degree with them, in high performance automotive. 'cause they have a high performance segment there too. Which was really my interest, you know? So,
Jimmy Lea: so, so you get out of school, are you specializing in euros? Are you specializing in the BMW or what.
Ryan von Steinen: I thought I was, but no, you know, I don't think I was really that kind of person.
Ryan von Steinen: And I got a job quickly at a dealership that was a Ford Lincoln and BMW dealer, kind of an odd combo. And I wanted to be at the BMW dealer, but they hired me in the Ford. But about two weeks. And then I got in a really bad accident and I was not a technician again for over a year. Like I, I got hit in a crosswalk, so, I spent a lot of time on crutches.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Oh, so it wasn't a, an it wasn't a thing in the shop that you got hurt. You were walking across the street and got hit?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. Oh. So two weeks into my career out of tech school. Right. Yeah, I got hit in a crosswalk. I six plates on the left side of my head and a rod in my right leg from my knee, my ankle.
Ryan von Steinen: So I did a lot of crutches the next year and
Jimmy Lea: whoa, you know, were, you
Ryan von Steinen: did different stuff.
Jimmy Lea: Was it a year of therapy to get you back into the shop?
Ryan von Steinen: It, you know, the head was really pretty straightforward. The leg, it's things like, they told me six months in I could start walking on it and I went back a week later.
Ryan von Steinen: I'm like, something's really wrong. And what had happened is the bone had broken in like a pi seat pie piece, you know, like a piece of pizza. Yes. And the front edge healed and an x-ray is one dimensional. And it saw that, so they said he could walk on it, but it broke again. And I bent the rod I was walking on, all the weight was on this rod.
Ryan von Steinen: So they had to take that out and put a 12 millimeter rod in and yeah. So it was some stuff like that and
Jimmy Lea: Dang.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Took a while, dude. That's rough. Yeah. Alright, so, so let's get past the, yeah. Crutches. The era of the season of crutches. Yes. You're now back in the shop, you're turning a wrench again.
Jimmy Lea: Life is good. And then what, where, what's next?
Ryan von Steinen: Well, I mean, I'll continue on where I was at there. It's like I started a Napa parts job and I really wanted to move out of Michigan. Michigan in 2007 was not a great place to be with everything that was going on, in the country, but most especially that, that state.
Ryan von Steinen: And I had an uncle in Reno, Nevada, so I moved out there and I started bunching part-time. And it never, the business kind of fell apart. I never pre progressed in a full-time gig, so I got a service advising gig there. At a place that did tons of Porsche because Porsche, north America used to be in Reno before it was in Atlanta.
Ryan von Steinen: So this is a huge old Porsche town. So yeah, I got into Porsches there being a service advisor and moved into management and chased a girl to Florida. And then, ended up down here and I've been down here 13 years, so,
Jimmy Lea: well, congratulations. Yeah. And how did it work out with the girl?
Ryan von Steinen: Good. We're married.
Ryan von Steinen: We have a 7-year-old. It's great, man. You know, we grew up three miles apart, but we never knew each other until I was 26. So, she went to a different school, you know, she was just like right on that line. Went to a different school, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, isn't that wild? It is. That's wild. Well, congratulations.
Jimmy Lea: Good job. Congrats on winning the race, catching the girl.
Ryan von Steinen: It was fun.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Getting married, having a child, boy, or girl.
Ryan von Steinen: I have a 7-year-old boy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, boy, congrats. That's always awesome, man. It's, does he have the same passion for cars that you did growing up? He
Ryan von Steinen: doesn't, but there's an oppositional kind of thing going on right now, you know?
Ryan von Steinen: Okay. So there's lots of things he does that are racing or mechanical, but he's like, no, I don't like race cars. You know, that's what he tells me. But
Jimmy Lea: that's fine. Yeah. That's okay. You like what you like I, I learned that with my son, baseball. Yeah. It's like watching paint dry. Unless my boy is playing with my boy.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. If my son's playing, I am in, I'm front row, I'm cheering. I am the baseball dad Outside of that man, it's tough.
Ryan von Steinen: For me that's riding rollercoasters. 'cause my son's obsessed with rollercoasters. He wants to be a rollercoaster engineer. And so I don't like riding really, but I've put up with some to Yes.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah, you do it for him and that's exactly
Jimmy Lea: why you do it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And I'm good for about one rollercoaster every other hour.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah, that'd be about my rate too. It's tough. My stomach. So we're right by Bush Gardens and he's, I mean he's met like the president there and you know, he's really like, been there a lot and experienced a lot.
Ryan von Steinen: And Bush Gardens has been really. Awesome. So,
Jimmy Lea: dude, that's rad. That's so cool. Yeah. Congrats man. Alright, so now you move, you get into the advisor role. Yeah. Do you like the advisor role? Do you wish you were still wrenching? What's your take on? No,
Ryan von Steinen: I mean, I think that's kind of what I discovered after school and breaking my leg and having kind of some time is like, I really liked working on race cars, right?
Ryan von Steinen: Like, Jimmy comes into the pits, he's like, man, it's loose all the time on these corners, and I make an adjustment. You're like, oh, it drives so much better. I love that. I don't love working on your Ford Explorer and putting front shocks on it. So I had a customer service background before automotive in this indoor sports facility that I worked at.
Ryan von Steinen: And it kind of fell to me where I was like, excuse me, fell together really easily for me. 'cause I was like, all right, this is customer service. And I know the car slash mechanical technician element enough, right? So it really felt like powerful. Like, all right, I had this training to be a tech, I'm not gonna be a tech it seems like, but I can still use this.
Ryan von Steinen: And I've used it consistently for 20 years.
Jimmy Lea: Good for you. Good for you. That's cool. That's really good. That's really good. Well, congrats on being able to stay in the business, stay in the industry. So you move to Florida, you start working, as service advising for. Yeah, the
Ryan von Steinen: shop. Well, yeah, actually I saw in Reno we did a lot of Porsche engines there.
Ryan von Steinen: Worked for a very reputable builder and we had a customer in Sarasota that ran a shop. And he, I came down here and interviewed before I moved. We were friendly with each other and he gave me a job as their service manager. So I ran a shop in Sarasota for a while. That was really, I thought, gonna be like the deal.
Ryan von Steinen: It was the best group I've ever had at technicians. But, the owner. Wasn't into it, you know, maybe how we see some other people that are passionate, you know? And so it really spoiled it for three of us, and we all quit in a three month span. Oh wow. So, yeah, it was really tough. But that moved me to JB Import and that's where I've been for almost 12 years now.
Ryan von Steinen: And so I'm happy, you know, things happened for a reason, but at the time it was like, man, what a crew to separate, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Well, for sure. And did you get any of that, crews, any of that crew with you at JB?
Ryan von Steinen: No, bummer. Really like three important people from there did gather up together in Sarasota, but that's about an hour south of me and I liked this area, so I was like, I'm gonna stay up here.
Ryan von Steinen: But I'm happy that three of them, they were able to form another company. And good, I've really done well, so, yeah. Congrats. That's nice.
Jimmy Lea: So you interview with, JB Imports and this is where you've been for, did you say 12 years?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. December would be 12 years.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, dude, congrats.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And what does that look like for you now?
Ryan von Steinen: I have a small bit of ownership here. I'm looking towards the future. Yeah. I have a, you know, a pretty aggressive growth plan for where I want to be in five years. Okay. I'd love to make it to be a multi shop owner, but I think being. Efficient with one shop is more important to me than having multiple, right?
Ryan von Steinen: Like, I wanna produce the max I can here before I look outside. So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah, you know, that's very admirable. 'cause if you, hone in the process, if you perfect that process for the single location becomes easier for you to now expand it out and do it at other locations as well.
Ryan von Steinen: Totally. And I have a procedure guide I put a lot of work into, and that's like why I keep coming back to it, to like change something, update.
Ryan von Steinen: I'm like, this is gonna, it's like the Bible, right? Like for the business. It is, we're gonna need this a bunch. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: It's a living document. It's something that you go to an update. Anytime you have a company meeting, you have a company, gathering. Everybody says, Hey, you know what? I come from this shop over here.
Jimmy Lea: And we did things like. This. Alright, well let's analyze it. Is it better than, what we currently do? Or is it maybe take a little bit longer?
Ryan von Steinen: We've totally done that. We hired a tech about 18 months ago and he had a process that he told us about from another shop about how they prepared vehicles for maintenance before they came into the shop, and we totally adopted our own version of that.
Ryan von Steinen: So yeah, it's this huge document I take a lot of pride in, but it's open to anybody to interpret and hey Jimmy, this is what I think would work better, and that's really what I want. Right. Is that kind of feedback from people.
Jimmy Lea: And how well do the technicians adopt this living document? Do they go in and make suggestions or edits to make, to improve it or do they come to you with those edits?
Ryan von Steinen: They typically come to me, so we do a weekly team meeting and we review one procedure a week, and it's, there's ones that are more repetitive than others, but, and then I do a one-on-one meeting with each person monthly. So like things will come up in there, you know, where they're like, Hey, I thought about this, right?
Ryan von Steinen: This is how we're doing X and I really think it could be better.
Jimmy Lea: Dude, I love it.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. And I'm just trying to make that culture where it's open. Right. But I want it to be open where you can come with something constructive, right. Not just this thing is crap or whatever. Yeah, some good feedback about how we can improve it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. That's awesome. Congrats, man. So what does this shop look like today? What does JB Imports look like today? Now, bays, techs, advisors.
Ryan von Steinen: So we have six technicians and my partner Mike, is, he's CEO, but we call it coach every opportunity. And I say that 'cause we do a good amount of old Bentley and Rolls Royce work, and Mike has worked in that field since the late seventies.
Ryan von Steinen: And we have, maybe not young and age, but experience with those vintage cars. So Mike's really working with them frequently about. Those systems, on those older vehicles. So there's six techs and Mike, there are, there's a service manager, two advisors and an estimator. And the estimator handles all the parts duties too.
Ryan von Steinen: But he writes a lot of estimates for it. He's a technician. That really wanted to be an advisor. And after he was an advisor, he was like, man, it's really hard for me to deal with the people. And I was like, man, you've got all this knowledge though about how to deal with situations. So he is really great at working with the technicians.
Ryan von Steinen: Nice one-on-one. Yeah. And then building estimates and helping the advisors build estimates. So
Jimmy Lea: yeah, dude, that's awesome. Congrats. Yeah. People don't realize, they think it's all, song and games. They think it's so easy there at the front desk. Yeah, and the front desk thinks, oh, these technicians, it's so easy for them.
Jimmy Lea: But until you've walked a mile in those shoes and gone the extra mile to make it two.
Ryan von Steinen: You don't know. No. And that is really apparent with this gentleman that I'm talking about, the estimator is he thought that when he was a technician, he went up there he is like, I thought they were just always like reading online or something, and he's like, I'm busier than I ever was as a tech.
Ryan von Steinen: And we have a RO check sheet. It's a whole page of things like, did I talk to Jimmy? If you're my customer about this, did I explain our warranty? Did I do our referral program? So there's. There's a lot of little pieces there.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And that can become overwhelming for a technician who really doesn't wanna talk.
Ryan von Steinen: Right.
Jimmy Lea: To have to talk and talk to all these people that are coming in the shop. Yep. And not only are they talking to every single person, but there's this checklist, so it's repetitive. It's the exact same conversation over and over.
Jimmy Lea: The answers are different, but it's the same questions.
Ryan von Steinen: Yep. Totally.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I can see where a tech would be like, oh my gosh, stick my eyes with a fork. I don't wanna do this anymore.
Ryan von Steinen: No. Just trying to place him where he is happy. 'cause he is a important person, you know, for us. Yes.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, he is important.
Jimmy Lea: He has value and congratulations for finding a really good position for him. Yeah. One as a, an estimator. Does that also mean he receives all the parts and disseminates it?
Ryan von Steinen: Yep. So he receives parts, returns parts, does our inventory, and then we have like, labeled shelves for the technicians where we try to put, like, they got control arms that'll say the ro number, the vehicle.
Ryan von Steinen: So it's very easy for a tech. So he does almost all of that. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's rad. Yeah. How many bays, how many, lifts?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah, so I always get a little, let me think about this. 5, 9, 10, 14. And we have another bay we're trying to build out. We'll have two, two more. So it's a little bit of an odd setup for an auto repair shop.
Ryan von Steinen: It was built in the fifties. It was an auto body shop first. So yes, we make the best of it, but yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yes, and that reminds me of, Tracy Holt performance place in Utah. I think he's South Jordan or West Jordan. His shop. Dad. Dad, grandpa. Did grandpa do it first? It might've been grandpa and then dad took it and now he's in it.
Jimmy Lea: It took him 40 years to buy it from his dad. So if you got a succession plan that's shortened 40 years. Yeah, we want to hear about that. So here he is. And they are working on ag only They're working on tractors. Yeah. Right. For just years and years. They are now the oldest. Incorporated business in South Jordan or West Jordan.
Jimmy Lea: Geez. In the whole town. Like, there's no other businesses that have been around as long as these guys have. Wow. I think they started in 1950, or maybe it's even before that. So, yeah. Tracy grew up in the shop, Broman pushing a broom. And everything is tied. That whole family, the success of the family is tied to the success of the shop.
Jimmy Lea: And he has done a phenomenal job. He and his sister, Patricia. Yes, I think her name's Patricia, a phenomenal job. And they run the whole show and they have 16 bays and you can see how they added on. And dad had four bays at the very back, so it would've been 20, had four bays at the back with all these dead bodies of old race cars and stuff like that.
Jimmy Lea: And I was like, Tracy, you need to like get this all outta here 'cause this is production. You could do another. How much? Get amount money a month? Yeah. Maybe 120,000 a month. Just cleaning it up. This, so he is like, oh my gosh, yes. So he got a couple detainers, put 'em out. He had three and a half acres.
Jimmy Lea: He put 'em out in the yard, loaded everything in the tainer. Dad, your stuff's here. Come play with it whenever you want. Right. But it's not in the shop. Took out the rv, took out the boat, took out all these old race cars and put it all in there. Dad hadn't been there for like 15 years and when he does come down he just tinkers with a few things and he is done.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. So opening, I love hearing the success. Opening this up, they, I think they hired another two or three technicians. It's so rad. It is so cool when you see stuff like that happening, and I'm seeing it here with your shop as well. Congrats.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. And that's been a big piece is focusing on how to have a bench.
Ryan von Steinen: And that's something that, it's hard, you know what I mean? It's really taken big investment in follow up, you know? Yes. Can't, yes. If you want someone on a bench, you gotta keep in touch with them, right? Oh, absolutely. You can't just let 'em sit there for nine months.
Jimmy Lea: So, so, so what's your follow up?
Jimmy Lea: How often are you touching base with these technicians that you really want to have come work at your shop?
Ryan von Steinen: I just use Trello and I organize all the candidates in there. And you can put a one month, you know, you just put one month there and put one month out. And so then I try to follow up with people that I'm interested in and people that live locally.
Ryan von Steinen: I just invite 'em, like, anytime you're by the shop, just come in right? And like I'll even, unless I'm in this kind of deal with you or something, Jimmy, I'll give and time and say, Hey, let's talk for a few. So, yeah. And you know, another big piece that I've worked a lot on and I, I enjoy is at the schools.
Ryan von Steinen: So there's two technical schools here in our county. And volunteering there and kind of getting to the point where I've learned from some senior shop owners like of growing my own right. And that's an important piece of business to me is to like be able to have a good apprentice mentor program.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. Yeah. So you do have an apprentice program.
Ryan von Steinen: So we do have an apprentice program. I do not have an apprentice in it right now. I have a guy who just graduated from tech school, but he graduated with all ASEs, and you could maybe call him apprentice, but he is really the highest level I've ever had at that position, you know, so I would say he's a tech, you know?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. Just, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, congrats. That's awesome. Yeah. Do you, so I, and I applaud you for being in the tech schools, the UTIs, the wts. Do you also go into the colleges, the junior colleges, the. Community colleges, high school, middle school, elementary school. You're doing stuff like that too.
Ryan von Steinen: I mean, there's a little bit, I can't say all that.
Ryan von Steinen: So the high school near me, I met a gentleman at the last board meeting at the technical school. They have 120 kids in this program three miles away. So I'm really trying to get involved there. There is another high school local that I sit on the board for, and they have a really awesome instructor, and then my kid's in elementary school, so I they do this, I can't remember what it, career day. Career day. Yeah. So I go in and talk to classes about being a technician, so, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's so cool's. Bringing that air drill.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. And just anything like, just showing the kids images and like, what is this car, is kind of their favorite thing, you know, if it's an Audi with a black grill, you can't really tell something like that.
Ryan von Steinen: They love, that stuff. So yeah, it's been really fun.
Jimmy Lea: That's super cool. And you guys are working on some pretty crazy cars there. If you got. Bentleys, rolls Royce and Lamborghini.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. I mean, most of the exotic car stuff is Rolls Royce and Bentley. I feel like there's been a dealer here, so don't quote me exactly, but the late fifties, early sixties, there's been a dealer here.
Ryan von Steinen: So there's a lot of old cars. Yeah, and a lot of new cars too. And Mike, my partners, like our specialist with Real Rolls Royce and Bentleys, let's say before 1998. And then the gentleman that runs the exotic car department is our, really our best technician too. He is our manager. But he is the most knowledgeable person I've ever met on modern Rolls-Royces.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah,
Jimmy Lea: dude, that's rad. Yeah, he's the
Ryan von Steinen: Rolls-Royce owner, club technical, manager for that division of cars. I mean, he's really an incredible individual, so
Jimmy Lea: Congrats. Yeah. That's awesome.
Ryan von Steinen: It's a cool team.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, very cool team. And congrats on having a bench, building a bench, keeping in touch with people once a month.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, that's solid. That is solid. Trying man. Yeah, that's cool. So what does the future look like for Ryan? What does the future look like for JB Import?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah, I mean, like I said, I'd really like to maximize what I can do with this facility, and it's a little bit odd layout compared to like Optimal, but I feel like it's about a four and a half, $5 million facility.
Ryan von Steinen: We're under 3 million, but you know, maybe about 2.7. We're on track for this year, so we have some growth to do, but I, you know, I have a five year plan from now for 6.7 million, and so I think at some point that'll mean another shop here, but you just kind of have to see how things go. Sure. And how much of our business is exotic versus just normal BMWs, Audis and stuff, because.
Ryan von Steinen: A RO over there is three x of what it is, you know, here on BMWs and Porsches and stuff. So it's, it where, how many you do of each matters, right? How the income,
Jimmy Lea: so you're probably, let's call it, 1200, 1500 per vehicle. And over on the exotic, the Bentley, the rent, about Range Rover. Oh, rolls Royce and Rolls Ry, thank you.
Jimmy Lea: And stuff. Yeah. You're in the 3,600 to $4,500 range or something. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's
Ryan von Steinen: four to five. It's like a pretty normal monthly one, you know, and it ebbs and flows. 'cause sometimes we have a humongous project from the. Hurricanes last fall. Oh yeah. And that'll make a month look like Incredible.
Ryan von Steinen: 'cause you have a hundred thousand dollars ticket on this huge project, but it's deceiving, you know, so.
Jimmy Lea: Right. That's the anomaly. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. And it is just awesome what people will do and pay for to maintain or save their vehicles, you know.
Ryan von Steinen: We've seen it through the hurricanes.
Ryan von Steinen: Last year was hard 'cause we totaled 25 ish cars and mean like really nice BMWs and really nice Bentley and all sorts of stuff. But if it got saltwater it was pretty much instantly totaled
Jimmy Lea: toast. It was toast. Yeah. That's tough man. It was. That's tough. Well, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you've got a plan.
Jimmy Lea: You're gonna get to 6.7 million. Yeah. Yeah, baby. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. What, so that's the future. Let's see. So if you were to change anything in the automotive industry, what would you change? I'm giving you a magic wand moment. You'll have one wish. You can't wish for more wishes. What's your wish?
Ryan von Steinen: So I always say it like this.
Ryan von Steinen: My wife is a speech and language pathologist, and one of the smartest people I know too. She means so much to me, but, I can't go open a speech and language. Practice down the street, you have to have a certification. Right? But my wife, who's never changed oil can go get a garage license and open a garage, right?
Ryan von Steinen: So for me, I think some type of CER certification would really make it better for the good people. The people that are listening to a podcast that are investing in training for themselves, it would make things better for those people. And I think this is only gonna become more evident as we get, you know, ADOS and electric cars and all this stuff.
Ryan von Steinen: Like we really need like a. Some type of certificate at a state level. I'm not really sure the con, the construction of it, but I really think that would be a good deal.
Jimmy Lea: So do you think that this, program, can we self run, self-fund this as a, as an industry or do you think there's some governmental, oversight that needs to step in and take control of it?
Ryan von Steinen: You know, I don't know. The thing that I feel like there in its opinion is it's hard to get government involved in stuff like this that might feel really small to them. So what it feels like to me is we've got ADOS and electric car and stuff. Once we get, and this is terrible to say, but enough accidents that come from poor repair, then the insurance company will say, you can only go to a shop that's X and X insured or certified or whatever.
Ryan von Steinen: It's, so I really think it's probably gonna be insurance companies that make the move, not. You know, the government. And that's just a guess, right? It's just something I hope for because I like the thing I said about my wife. I just, yeah. Want some kind of buried across that. Yeah. You are a respected individual in this field.
Ryan von Steinen: You can repair things correctly. 'Cause there's a lot of shops that are pretty, pretty rough, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh, for sure. And you find that almost in any industry. Yeah, maybe we need to go look at the, electricians or the plumbers. What's their journeyman? I had an uncle that was a lineman and he had to come up through the ranks, so there were years of hazing by other electricians Sure.
Jimmy Lea: For him to take his position as a lineman. But, yeah. What's their process? What's their procedure? Do they have oversight or is it all self-funded? Self maintained, self-controlled. By themselves. I don't know.
Ryan von Steinen: It's gotta be like who, who's at the top, whether it's insurance or the person of a big company.
Ryan von Steinen: 'cause my brother works in the elevator repair industry and he's in a union and they do lots of repair and building around here, but there's still non-union repair places that can go and repair it, and they do it for less money, you know? Sure. So, I don't know the solution I guess. Right? I just think about, man, this could really help.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I agree. And what is it? What's the answer? We don't know, but we know there's a problem and if we keep asking the questions, we'll come up with an answer that helps us because Yeah, you're right. I mean, we can hire an electrician off of Facebook. We can hire an electrician, from an independent guy that, used to be a lineman but now has his own company.
Jimmy Lea: We can go to the union and hire somebody. What level of skill training. Experience, what are we looking for? And,
Ryan von Steinen: we're, and we're seeing like a little bit with the Google certified, right? Like it's a process to go through that. I did it for our company. And so that's a little bit, right, like you get that badge.
Ryan von Steinen: So maybe it's someone like that's. Talking about they are more qualified for X and x repair these difficulties, this electrical diag. Maybe that's something that can come from that side too.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Yeah. You know, Google got in trouble 'cause they had that Google certified before where it was, Hey, are you, can you fog a mirror?
Jimmy Lea: Okay, you're Google certified. Well then Google got sued too many times and now they've come back and revamped the program. So that's why it was such, so many hoops for you to jump through on that. For sure. Yeah. To what it used to be. So congrats on getting that. That's, there's a feather in your cap right there.
Ryan von Steinen: Well, and I like those little things. Right. Because I feel like it's a little advantage versus the guy down the street, so I'm gonna do everything I can like that. That helps. So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Yep. That's awesome. Congrats for doing that. That's very cool, man. Yes. There, bits of advice or topics or subjects to discuss in our Leading Edge podcast.
Ryan von Steinen: You know, I think I, I don't know what the average listener is, right? But I think I, excuse me. I know I speak to a lot of shop owners who don't have any SOPs, you know, standard operating procedures. And when I talk to these people that are trying to start it, I'm like, just go write how to open the shop.
Ryan von Steinen: And it's gonna seem silly to you, but like walk in, go to the light switch at the back of the room, go to the compressor room. Like, just write that. And then you'll get this flow about how it's gonna happen and you'll just get better and better as you do him. And I really, you know, this is from a friend Neil at Oceanside Motor Sport.
Ryan von Steinen: Hes really, Neil's a rad
Jimmy Lea: dude, man. He's so, he's awesome. Awesome. He's
Ryan von Steinen: so awesome. And so I get a lot of good stuff from him or bouncing stuff off of him. Google Docs, you know, and just using everything in Google 'cause it makes it so simple to share with team members to edit and it rein indexes your, you know, your little glossary where you can find stuff.
Ryan von Steinen: So, yeah, make it Google Docs and just start writing procedures. 'cause it's really, it's pretty awesome when it works out for you, for an owner. And like, one that happens to me a lot is if it's not written, it's not true, right? So someone when they come up to me like, Hey, this person said this, or whatever, I'm like, okay, where did you write it down?
Ryan von Steinen: Like, ah, didn't, like, okay. Like, I'm so sorry. Like I care about your feelings. Right. But we've made this a rule for a reason, in things like this. Like every shop owner wants to get the most money he can, right? So we have a rule, like if a technician sees it, he's gotta note it, gotta have a photo, he is gotta have a note about it.
Ryan von Steinen: If an advisor gets that from a technician, they have to estimate it, right? And so love it. Doing those things, putting procedures in place and holding people accountable has really made a big difference.
Jimmy Lea: So, what point of sale system are you using? Tech metric. Tech metric. So in tech metric, are you using their DVI as well?
Jimmy Lea: When a technician is working on a car and he marks that something needs immediate attention, is it part of your policy procedure that they have to take a picture of whatever it is that they're recommending?
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. And even like sometimes you'll get the car with 8,000 miles. I'm like, you gotta put up four photos, minimum.
Ryan von Steinen: Take a photo of the tires or the engine, say how clean it is or how awesome this car is. Like, and another thing is like, don't just put all bad. Right? Yeah. You get somebody and you're writing 'em $12,000 estimates, you gotta tell 'em something good too. Right? You know, this thing looks great.
Ryan von Steinen: Or front suspension I can tell is head work, good job, whatever it may be. But include some good, oh yeah.
Jimmy Lea: No, there, there's a standard number of photos that you should have on every car, and this will help save you and save your clients and your customers. Specifically taking four corners. Yeah. You take pictures at the four corners.
Ryan von Steinen: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: It documents the condition of the vehicle, so it helps you to not pay for those dent lists. Ding removal. It had a ding when it came in. It had a ding now and it's gonna leave with a ding. There was one, that the customer was adamant that the shop had broken off the passenger mirror.
Jimmy Lea: And, they went back to the DVI and the picture showed that it was broken off. And he's like, well, you broke off before you moved it into the shop. So they went back to the video. They have video that video the whole yard. And as sure enough as he's driving in, it was broken off and, he had to apologize.
Jimmy Lea: And to his credit, he did, he talked to his wife and sure she had accidentally broken it off, backing out of the garage or something like that. So. And just not gotten around and forgotten. You know, life gets busy. Just forget to say, Hey, oh, this happened. Right? So it, it was on him and he owned it.
Jimmy Lea: So still a good client of that shop, I'm sure.
Ryan von Steinen: It's been many times that's happened, you know? Yeah. And there was a Rolls-Royce that got delivered here a couple years ago and had a cracked windshield and a Rolls-Royce windshield, big money. And the owner was all about, it wasn't cracked rent, left my house, and it was cracked when it arrived.
Ryan von Steinen: So we figured it out, but it's just because of that four corner check in. And we always do the, instrument cluster with their seatbelt on too. So
Jimmy Lea: I love the instrument cluster. I also take a picture of the Dr, the license plate.
Ryan von Steinen: Yeah. Okay.
Jimmy Lea: Because you got your tags on there. If it's expired or coming up for due, or it's due for expire soon.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It helps you in tech metric. You put in there the renewal date and now you know, hey, you gotta bring your car in. We need, we can do this. Well, Florida doesn't have state protection anymore. No. And that would be a
Ryan von Steinen: great thing. That's another thing I would love, but, yeah, but no, I get what you're saying and I like just having it to be able to tell him, Hey, Jimmy, like, you know, your tag's running out next month, right?
Ryan von Steinen: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, hey, it expired last month. Oh, shoot. Thanks. You know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I don't want you getting a ticket. No. I've been a recipient of one of those, one of those fix it tickets.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Totally. Oh man. I just totally forgot. And you take care of it and everything's fine. Yeah. No, that's good.
Jimmy Lea: That's good. Well, conga, congratulations Ryan. Congratulations on the future. I hope it goes extremely well for you. Do you have a succession plan here with your partner? That you're gonna buy him out, or does he want to be bought out? Yeah,
Ryan von Steinen: he, he does it. But it's truthfully been hard and messy and the property and the business are two separate things, you know?
Ryan von Steinen: So, I see the light. I'm not giving up. I'm very positive about it, but it's not easy. So I think that's something maybe I could say to another shop owners too, is. A lot of shop owners are DIYers, right? They're good at fixing things, doing stuff themselves. This is not something you really should DIY you, you need some help, right?
Ryan von Steinen: So you do. That'd be my advice. And
Jimmy Lea: especially with people that have been there, done that, they've gone through the succession plans, there's 99 different ways of documenting or planning out your succession plan, whether it is the properties included or not, or leased back or, first right of refusal, whatever that situation is.
Jimmy Lea: Document, document. My $17,000 lesson that I learned that you guys have implemented is it has to be written down. Yeah. It's not written down. It didn't happen. Doesn't exist in your SOL. Yeah. Yep. Cool. Well congratulations Ryan. Thank you very much. Appreciate your time today. Thanks for Yeah, it was great talking about Talking Shop.
Ryan von Steinen: Thanks so much Jimmy. Appreciate the time.
Jimmy Lea: Alright man. Talk to you soon. Take care. Bye.

153 - Jackie Mills: Reviving a Family Legacy at Jess Lewis Transmission

153 - Jackie Mills: Reviving a Family Legacy at Jess Lewis Transmission
September 30, 2025 - 00:30:47
 
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea talks with Jackie Mills from Jess Lewis Transmission in Fort Wayne, Indiana, about carrying forward a legacy that began in 1954. Jackie shares how her family has grown the business into a 16-bay operation with nearly 20 technicians, balancing tradition with modern innovation. She opens up about her father’s lifelong dedication, the challenges of delegation, and her mission to strengthen structure and process. From mastering CVT rebuilds to transitioning to AutoLeap for better communication and customer transparency, the shop is evolving without losing its roots. Jackie also discusses hiring challenges, industry perceptions, and how she’s preparing to take the business into its next chapter while pursuing her master’s in accounting.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Jackie Mills, owner Jess Lewis Transmission
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:22] - Jackie shares the history of Jess Lewis Transmission, founded in 1954 with racing roots.[00:01:42] - The shop’s ownership passes through decades, now in the hands of the third family generation.[00:03:13] - Jackie works alongside her dad, focusing on building systems and delegation.[00:05:21] - A look inside the shop’s structure: 16 bays, rebuild specialists, and CVT expertise.[00:06:41] - Her husband’s role in tackling the toughest rebuilds that few shops attempt.[00:07:26] - Growing up at the shop taught Jackie the value of hard work and small business life.[00:09:28] - Corporate experience prepared her for the customer service side of the auto industry.[00:12:23] - Hiring remains the biggest challenge as the trade faces generational shifts.[00:17:46] - The switch to AutoLeap brings efficiency, transparency, and stronger customer trust.[00:20:11] - Future goals: refine processes, strengthen operations, and expand for sustainable growth.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello, friend. Thank you for joining me. This is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Jackie Mills. Jackie is with the Jess Lewis transmission, a shop in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Is that correct, Jackie?
Jackie Mills: Yep. Yeah, that's correct.
Jimmy Lea: The one flight I've taken as a red eye was to Fort Wayne, Indiana. How about that for a memory of Fort Wayne?
Jackie Mills: We have a pretty good airport. It's very small, but like nice and friendly, and you always get a cookie and you get off of a flight.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. Now I don't think I got myself a cookie.
Jackie Mills: Oh no.
Jimmy Lea: I attended and went immediately into a chapter meeting.
Jimmy Lea: I was so red. It was the one and only red eye have ever done. In the last 15 years, I've traveled quite a bit. I was a zombie for the next three days. I really couldn't even tell you where I went, what I did, who I saw. I was pretty much zombie. It was horrible. I don't ever recommend you do red eye flights.
Jimmy Lea: I just think that's cruel and unusual punishment.
Jackie Mills: I agree.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And here I thought, oh, I'm being so smart here. I'm gonna save the cost of a hotel room. No.
Jackie Mills: Not worth it.
Jimmy Lea: Not worth it. Not worth it at all. Not worth it at all. So Jackie, thank you for joining me today. Really appreciate it. And I'm excited to learn more about Jess Lewis transmission.
Jimmy Lea: In fact, that's where I wanna start. The question is, who is Jess Lewis? And what's the story here with your shop?
Jackie Mills: So Jess Lewis he founded the shop in 1954, so we've kind of got a longstanding history in Fort Wayne. I know you'll have to forgive me for not knowing the details of that I grew up like around cars and all of that.
Jackie Mills: I just don't know them as well as maybe I would like to someday, but. He like invented a specific type of transmission, like he was really into racing stuff. We've dug into a little bit about that and if anyone's curious, we have a little bit of background on our website. It's hard to find a lot because he did all of this stuff in the.
Jackie Mills: Like fifties, sixties, seventies, what have you. But it has been in my family since the nineties. I know that it went through a change of ownership between the eighties and nineties. So, Jess has not been involved for a little bit. We're technically the third owner. But he passed away in like the early two thousands, but I guess he was pretty big in the automotive world in our area.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Well, racing was very big in Indiana, that was that's a big pastime there in Indiana and may he rest in peace. That's phenomenal that he started the shop and got you involved or that your dad was able to buy it. So you guys are third time generation owners. Dad bought the business.
Jimmy Lea: Is dad still working in the shop?
Jackie Mills: Yes, very much so. He's still very active, very necessary. In the past several years we've been trying to get him to be a little less necessary because he's one of those traditional, like one man show does everything over, extends himself. Worked way too many hours for way too many years.
Jackie Mills: So we're working on the delegation thing and I mean, I've been here for like the past five years. So that's what we've been working on for five years and we still haven't gotten him to quite like, you know, step out of everything the way that we want to, but we're working on that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, there's been quite a few succession plans that we have helped implement here in the last two years that I'm aware of at the institute.
Jimmy Lea: So if you'd looking for any advice or information about how to start the conversation, how to structure the conversation and how to finish the conversation. We could probably assist with a little bit of that conversation between you and pops.
Jackie Mills: Yeah, definitely.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's cool. Well, and congratulations to pops as well for having the insight and the foresight to be able to buy the shop and have it ready for you.
Jimmy Lea: So what's the succession plan? What are you looking to do with your dad?
Jackie Mills: So we don't really have like anything officially structured like nothing. Other than kind of like loose ideas, I imagine that he'll still be working for quite a while and in being involved in some capacity even after retirement.
Jackie Mills: He just likes to be busy. He's a very like, hard worker. Like that's just kind of what he does. That's how he, because I mean, he even grew the shop to be like. What it is today. And like it was a very small business with just a couple bays and now we have like 19 guys working for us. Well, 19 technicians I should say.
Jackie Mills: 'Cause we do have a Jackie
Jimmy Lea: 19 technicians. Oh my gosh. How many bays do you guys have? How many shops do you have?
Jackie Mills: So we do it a little bit differently. I think we have like 16 bays. Some of those guys are exclusively rebuild technicians, so they focus on the, like r the rebuilding of transmissions exclusively.
Jimmy Lea: RR,
Jackie Mills: yeah. So like the rest of them are your traditional like r and r automotive technicians. And then the other ones are just rebuilds. So they, like the r and r guys, take the transmissions out and put them in and do like the traditional automotive work, that type of thing. Whereas our rebuilds like actually do the rebuilding of the transmissions.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. And that is such a skill. I've St. George transmission in St. George, Utah, which is where I used to live. There they have the, he has nine master certified techs and these nine guys are the master certified that would take apart that jigsaw puzzle and put it back together. And they love it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And I love that they love it because that is not my jam.
Jackie Mills: Yeah. Yeah. And these, I'm some of them are a little newer, but we've got some really great like rebuild texts like. That's what my husband does right now. He does some of the management stuff, but he's focusing on rebuilding stuff and he works on a lot of the stuff that nobody else will touch, like cbts.
Jackie Mills: A lot of people, I don't know of many shops that will even touch the cbts, but we do a lot of those.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. There's such a pain in the butt. There's so many little teeth inside of there. I understand why nobody wants to do it, and kudos to your husband that he can do it.
Jackie Mills: Yeah. Yeah. He's only been doing it for five years and he's like worked out his own system.
Jackie Mills: He's pretty good at it.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congrats. That's very cool.
Jackie Mills: Thank you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, those CVTs are not to be taken lightly. That's interesting. Okay, so back to pop spot. The shop. He's working in the shop. You are working in the shop. You probably grew up at the shop.
Jimmy Lea: Sweeping floors and Exactly
Jackie Mills: that.
Jackie Mills: Yeah. I
Jimmy Lea: take out the trash.
Jackie Mills: I actually so me and my brother were homeschooled till like high school, so we actually did school at the shop for a while, like in the office. I remember growing up and doing school there 'cause my mom did office work and stuff like that. So like, I literally grew up there.
Jackie Mills: Spent a lot of time at the shop.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Jackie Mills: And then I started cleaning floors probably around the age of eight. Like child labor, what? I don't know. Oh
Jimmy Lea: yeah, no, you definitely were child labor. Did you run the Zamboni or was it a MPP and bucket?
Jackie Mills: It was MPP and bucket. I think eventually we got some type of machine, but I was probably too small to like physically handle that at whatever point.
Jackie Mills: So it was very mopping bucket.
Jimmy Lea: Oh that's awesome. That's hilarious. That's awesome. Very cool. I love that mopping bucket. Yeah. And that's true. That, and you then you have a greater appreciation for those Zamboni machines.
Jackie Mills: Yeah, definitely. Definitely have an appreciation for that. And the, just the work and effort that goes into cleaning it in general, like the people that take the time to clean it.
Jackie Mills: Now I have the appreciation for that.
Jimmy Lea: Bingo. Very cool. Very cool. Well, that's a great background you've got within the industry and a super solid foundation. How did you, how did you get I knew you grew up in the shop, but how did you develop this passion for, and continue to work for the shop as opposed to, oh, you know, I'm gonna go off to be a hairstylist.
Jimmy Lea: I want to go be an attorney. I want to go be a different business owner. I want to sell. Whatever. What drew you to the automotive industry?
Jackie Mills: So, I mean, I didn't spend all of my time in it. I did actually like work for the shop and like, I did like payroll and stuff like that in college. I. I have a degree in business management.
Jackie Mills: So I did that for a while. I did work like after graduating, I spent a few years doing other things because while I kind of always had it in the back of my mind that I wanted to come back and like work in the family business, that type of thing, my dad felt like it was important to get experience outside of that.
Jackie Mills: I mean, I agree with him because I feel like I have a better appreciation for what it's like to work for a small business. And I worked at a couple large corporations Sweetwater in Indiana, which really great company, loved working for them. And then I worked at MedPro, which is medical malpractice insurance.
Jackie Mills: I was in underwriting, so I did. Customer service based roles in both of those things, which I also feel like has helped me a lot. Like, you know, a lot of people come to automotive repair very angry. So I feel like having the customer service background has like helped prepare me for that. But eventually.
Jackie Mills: My dad got to the point where he was like, I need someone to come help, like take stuff off my plate so if you're ready to come back, I'm ready to have you come back. And it like ended up being good timing because I was very weary of underwriting work and insurance and dealing with angry doctors.
Jackie Mills: So. I just came back to that and now we're kind of working on like building in you know, like more official structures and processes so that it's not like as much workload on one person or like tied into like all being reliant on my dad. So like we've built in management for like different sections of the shop and that type of thing, but really I just like.
Jackie Mills: I do love cars. I'm a fan of cars. I don't understand how they work so much as I just like them. But it's more of a passion for like the small business side of things. And I like working with the other small businesses that we work with and I like what I do and I have a lot of flexibility in what I do.
Jackie Mills: So.
Jimmy Lea: That's very cool. That's very cool. I'm glad you enjoy it. I'm glad you're able to work with mom and dad too. Oh, did, and speaking of, does mom work at the shop too, or no?
Jackie Mills: No she like does a little bit. She comes in and decorates, makes things nice, helps keep the office tidy like she's in and like involved, but she's no longer.
Jackie Mills: Working an official role or anything like that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, nice. So what's one of the bigger cha biggest challenges or bigger challenges for you as HR and operations for the shop? What's one of those challenges that gets you on a daily, monthly, weekly basis?
Jackie Mills: I suppose like one of our biggest challenges has been hiring.
Jackie Mills: I think that's a industry thing in general. We have a really great team. Like we really like love all of the people that work with us, like work for us, work with us, all that. We have a really great team right now.
Jackie Mills: We also have probably the space and need for more people. It's just hard to find the right people, I guess.
Jackie Mills: I think it's an industry challenge because you have a lot of the experienced people kind of aging out of doing it. And then a lot of the people in like my generation and the newer generations just aren't willing to do this type of work. So that's the struggle, just like finding people that even want to.
Jackie Mills: Do the job. So that's probably our biggest challenge, finding people.
Jimmy Lea: It is. And what's interesting that I hear in the industry is they'll say, well, I want a 20-year-old person who has you know, 15 years of experience and I want to pay a minimum wage. Yeah. It doesn't work like that. No, it worked like that.
Jimmy Lea: No, it definitely does not. You gotta really dig in and know your business and know the numbers and what does it take to run your business. And for every single shop it's different 'cause every shop has a different number of employees. There's different expenses, there's different operating expenses, there's different overhead that it has to be taken care of and accounted for.
Jimmy Lea: So what might work at your shop as a door rate? Might be way too high at my shop. So we have to know our businesses to know at what level can we operate.
Jackie Mills: Yeah, definitely.
Jimmy Lea: That's good. How often do you analyze the business on a whole To find out the the operating net Pro gross profit, net profit.
Jimmy Lea: For the business.
Jackie Mills: It's probably more of a annual thing at this point. Like kind of work with our accountant on that. I'm actually in the process of getting my master's in accounting so that I can do a little bit more of that. I wanna do a lot of the work that he does and be able to like, understand more of that and, you know, like stay more on top of what we need to stay on top of.
Jackie Mills: We do a lot of like analyzing our expenses and like what we need to make. And I do like pricing reviews more regularly than annually.
Jimmy Lea: Agreed. But
Jackie Mills: eventually I would like to be doing that, you know, like quarterly or something like that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's very cool. Yeah, things changed so quickly. My uncle owned.
Jimmy Lea: 129 different rental properties. And so by the 10th of the month, he wanted to know what's our gross profit, what's our net profit? So by the 10th of the month, he wanted to know last month. So let's say September was last month, by October 10th, he wanted to know all the numbers so he would know on that monthly.
Jimmy Lea: 'cause if you're looking at it annually, it's probably, there's a lot that could have been changed along the way, to your point, quarterly, yeah. Is a really good spot to be in. And then I would say even suggest that the monthly, looking at it monthly is a beautiful way of knowing, am I on top of my numbers or not?
Jimmy Lea: Have you ever been involved in any coaching or training where you've got an accountability buddy?
Jackie Mills: No, we haven't done anything like that, and it's something that we've discussed. It's we have a lot of changes and all of that on our plate. That makes it a little difficult to like, introduce anything in, because I'd really like my dad to get in on that stuff.
Jackie Mills: Sure. But we have been part of like the institute's community for a while now. Like I'm. I'm a big podcast listener, so I have listened to your podcast and I've listened to some of the other podcasts that are like, kind of in the community. Yes. So like I'm in on all of that and like love the advice and all of that I'm seeing and we're working on kind of applying that 'cause it's been like a hit the ground running thing for my dad for a while.
Jackie Mills: We're just trying to like, catch everything else up to it.
Jimmy Lea: Right. I mean, even though he's been in the business since 1990 something, it, every day things are growing so fast and moving so quickly. There's so much to learn on a daily. Yes. It's like, oh my gosh, how, when am I gonna have time to run my business?
Jackie Mills: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We and it was something that we got kind of from, like the community that you guys have built and all that. But we just recently switched our system, which was a huge undertaking, and it's so much more than you think it's gonna be especially just with the older guys that don't want the technology.
Jackie Mills: So we like moved from. I don't know if you, I don't know. I don't wanna like disparage their system. Okay. We moved from, no,
Jimmy Lea: there's no disparaging here whatsoever. You went from a platform to a different platform. Yeah. The one you were on is whatever, but the one you went to. What are you on now? What are you operating?
Jimmy Lea: We're on
Jackie Mills: auto leave now.
Jimmy Lea: Excellent.
Jackie Mills: Yeah. Yes, we love it. The
Jimmy Lea: rules. The rules of changing your point of sale system. Rule number one is don't do it.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. That being said, rule number two is when you do decide that it is, that the old system just isn't giving you everything you want. Or need or desire. Every system that you look at, does it give you everything you're wanting. And so moving to OT Leap it's a great program. They've got great customer service, great support.
Jimmy Lea: They're doing a great job for you. What do you like about the Auto Lead program?
Jackie Mills: So one of the primary things that we like is that it's an all-in-one, and that's what we were really searching for when we dec because it was a big decision. We spent a lot of time researching everything and trying to decide if that was worth it, because it is a big change to go from one thing to another thing.
Jackie Mills: But we love that it's an all in one. And then the other big thing is that it has a lot more transparency capabilities, like sending the inspections to customers. So we are looking to like level up our customer service with communication, but also like, hey, here's where we are at in the process. We do general automotive repair, but a lot of our work is focused in transmissions and like transmission rebuilding, that type of thing, which is longer than standard automotive work.
Jackie Mills: Like you have a lot more time wrapped up in transmissions, which is a huge frustration for customers because. I understand it 'cause like not everybody understands what goes into it, but we were kind of looking to try and provide a way, like you can know where you're at in the process, like we're waiting on parts or like that type of thing.
Jackie Mills: So like we love that Auto Leap gives us the capability to communicate all of that stuff without adding like copious amounts of work.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure. Congrats. I That's great. I'm glad you're on Ale. It's a good program. It's got a solid foundation. They're doing some great things in the industry too.
Jimmy Lea: So that's very cool. That's very cool. So what does the future look like for your transmission shop that is transforming and now doing automotive maintenance? What does it look like for you in the future?
Jackie Mills: I think we're like focusing on trying to make what we have the best that it can be.
Jackie Mills: And we do have, like we have an extra building with some more bays in it to like hopefully do some growth in you know, other areas like maybe offer more services or just hire more techs, that type of thing. Not 100% sure what that's gonna look like yet, but like we do have like growth plans in the future, but currently we're mostly focused on.
Jackie Mills: Trying to make everything work the best that it can be for us, our techs, our customers, that type of thing. So, growth, but mostly like improving our processes and kind of catching everything up to. We're at.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. You're reminding me of a really good friend, Tracy Holt. His shop is Performance Place up here in Utah, and he came to the institute and he says, Hey, look I'm a 7% net profit.
Jimmy Lea: I'm an 8% net profit shop. I just, I can't break through I what I need, process procedures. If you're not gonna help me with that, if you're gonna tell me I need to increase my average repair order or increase my car count, then, you know, thanks. But no thanks. We can part ways and still be friends.
Jimmy Lea: I was like, oh yeah, Chay, we got you. We're gonna meet you where you are and help you to improve from there. So he had 16 bays? Yes. 16 bays and. Operating and doing very well. In fact, the family is so involved in his business that the success or failure of the family is dependent on the success or failure of the shop.
Jackie Mills: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: A lot of his, I
Jackie Mills: don't really understand that.
Jimmy Lea: A lot of his children, his nephews, nieces, his sister is his business partner, so the two of them operate the business together. And it's only recently it took like 40 years for them to buy the shop from dad. 'cause dad kept. Dragging his feet. Oh, you do what you want.
Jimmy Lea: No dad, this is your business. We respect you. We love you. This has to be your choice, your decision. So finally, after 40 years, they finally got it done. Probably the longest story that I've heard of buying a shop, but he finally got it done and the institute worked with him on process, procedures, and just this last.
Jimmy Lea: November, December, he broke 23 point something percent net profit in the November. And in December broke 24 point something percent net profit.
Jackie Mills: Wow.
Jimmy Lea: 16 base. Yeah. So what's the net result? The shop is doing extremely well. They're very happy. The air is cleaner, the sky is bluer, the grass is greener.
Jimmy Lea: Everybody's happier, and it provides different quality of life for everybody at the shop. What's the net result on car count? What's the net result? On average pair order, they all went up.
Jackie Mills: That's amazing. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: All went up because they focused on process procedure, which allowed them to be more efficient, which allowed them more capacity.
Jimmy Lea: I think that is awesome. Yeah. Let's add to it, just like you were talking about, you have the ability to expand. He had the ability to expand. I went and visited his shop. He shows me the back. A lot. So you can see this is one of the oldest businesses in his town or wherever he is west Jordan, south Jordan, one of those two.
Jimmy Lea: You can see where dad had the original business and then he added onto it, and then he added onto it, and then he added onto it. So those 14, 16 bays were in the first three editions. There's a fourth edition, and dad had all of his old dead bodies in there. Old race cars, not human bodies. Dead bodies in there and six Bay, four bays of stuff, an rv, a travel trailer, just stuff and things.
Jimmy Lea: And I was like, bro, when's the last time pops came in here and looked at his stuff? It's been a couple years. Get some sea retainers, put 'em out in the parking lot there with. Whatever he's got out there, pops, here's your stuff. It's available for you anytime you wanna come down a rifle through it.
Jimmy Lea: Come on down. We'll set up lawn chairs and have a good old time. The RV moved out, the travel trailer moved out. All the dead bodies that are in these detainers now from their racing days and all that kind of stuff. And he opened up another four bays. At the shop. So he's now a 20 bay shop on, I think he's three point something acres.
Jimmy Lea: It's got some land to it. They're so excited. They're doing so well. I'm so very proud of Tracy Holt and the family and the team there at Performance Place.
Jackie Mills: Yeah. That's amazing.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. They're doing a great job. Similar story for what you guys have, you have an ability to expand. How many bays would that add for you?
Jackie Mills: I. Not 100%, but I think they're thinking it would add like four or five more bays.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Love it. You should do it. You should do it as quickly as you can. 'cause you've already got how many technicians? 16 technicians?
Jackie Mills: Yeah. I believe that it's 16 or 17, somewhere in there.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Yeah, I'd be expanding pretty dang fast.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. That is so awesome. So what is the one thing, if you could change something in the industry, something at your shop, what's one thing, if I gave you a magic wand and you were able to wave the wand, you can't wish for more wishes, but you could wave the wand, what would you wish for in the industry?
Jackie Mills: I think I think it would definitely be, and it, I know it's one of the things that you guys are kind of like seeking to change is the perception of the industry. And I know by far and large that there has been, like, there has been some guilt in the industry, but you do get. I'm sure you've experienced this, a lot of customers that come in already expecting the worst of you.
Jackie Mills: Whereas, you know, like stuff does happen. We do make mistakes. We always try to like own up to anything that we do or cause or whatever. But when you're always trying to look for the bad thing, you're going to see the bad thing. And you know, we're here, like we've been in business for a really long time, always trying to do the right thing.
Jackie Mills: Trying to do right by our customers, trying to do right by our employees. But you know. There is a lot of, like, we have amazing customers. We have a lot of loyal customers, but there's also some people that, you know, just always wanna find something wrong with what you're doing. And maybe it's because they have been burned by someone before, but I think that I would like to change that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. And you'll do that with those digital vehicle inspections that you provide to your customers and clients. Show 'em. Show 'em. What's worn, torn, frayed, broken leaking, seeping. Cracked. Put arrows, pointed it out to them so they can see it. They will make better decisions when they're educated, they make better decisions.
Jimmy Lea: So that DVI gives them insight into, they're not just trying to take me for all the money I've got. These are safety issues. These are the things that you have to take care of. This is very, this is Paramountly important. And there's a next level that says we can do this while the car's in here, or we can keep watching it maybe in three months or six months.
Jimmy Lea: These are the items that you're probably gonna need to take care of next. And then these are all the other things that are good. So there's your red, yellow, green. Red, let's get it taken care of today. It's in the shop. You absolutely, this is safety issues. Yellow says future, but we can do it today if you want.
Jimmy Lea: And a lot of people say, yeah, let's get it all done today. You've got the car. I don't wanna have to come back. Let's get it all done.
Jackie Mills: Yeah, exactly. And we have noticed that we have had a lot more like customer satisfaction since we've kind of implemented like a higher level of communication and on our end, like a higher level of due diligence, like having the pictures and the notes and all of that too.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. It's so cool. I love the digital vehicle inspections. It provides so much more clarity into what you're doing and the service you're providing for those customers and clients because it's, it is not just a laundry list of this, you need to do this.
Jimmy Lea: $2,500. It's a breakdown that says you need to replace your brakes and brake pads and rotors, and here's the reasons why, and this is what yours looks like. It's metal on metal. It's bad.
Jackie Mills: Dangerous.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It happens. It happens. Well, Jackie, thank you so much for joining me today and talking about your shop and your business.
Jimmy Lea: So excited for your future. You've got a very bright future there with Pops and with your husband, and congrats on going for your Master's in accounting. Super cool.
Jackie Mills: Thank you so much. I appreciate it. I appreciate getting to talk with you.
Jimmy Lea: You're welcome. You're welcome. This has been very enlightening, and if Pops is open for the idea, we'd love to train you, your husband and your pops all together to train on the shop, on the business.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's an opportunity for us. Let's do it. If there's not, we're all good. We'll still be friends.
Jackie Mills: Definitely. Thank you so much.
Jimmy Lea: You are welcome. You're welcome. Because we here at the Institute, we're all about building a better business. Your business, better business, better life. If your business is better, it helps your life to be better.
Jimmy Lea: You'll breathe better. Not just you, your employees, not just your employees, their families, their spouses, their significant others. It helps everybody to breathe better, and when we, as the institute or as the industry, we lock arms together, that's our third mission with the institute, is we're here to build a better industry.
Jimmy Lea: So we'd love to work with you on that to build up your business, your life, and your industry as well.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you very much, Jackie. Look forward to talking to you soon.

152 - Efficiency Over Expansion: How Matt Kranz Built His Dream Team

152 - Efficiency Over Expansion: How Matt Kranz Built His Dream Team
September 30, 2025 - 00:38:59
 
Show Summary:
From broom to Bentleys, Matt Kranz maps the climb from a cramped back-office closet to leading Long Meadow Garage, a three-bay shop attached to a gas station and c-store. He unpacks hard-won lessons from a chaotic first job, showing why turnover and shortcuts kill trust, and how a dirty white shirt at the counter builds credibility. Matt explains his pivot into European and luxury work, the tools and security credentials he chooses with purpose, and how shop-to-shop collaboration expands capability without bloating costs. He shares real KPIs, a lean team structure, and the discipline behind DVIs and the 300 percent rule. Training is a constant, with on-the-job diagnostics, lunch-and-learns, and curated content keeping techs and advisors sharp. With demand three weeks out, Matt prioritizes efficiency and quality over bay count, yet still sets a stretch target for what three bays can do. He closes with straight talk on the tech pipeline and his best advice to new owners: do not take it personally, learn, systemize, and keep leading.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Matt Kranz, COO of Longmeadow Garage
 
Show Highlights:
[00:00:21] - Matt laughs about recording from a tiny back office and traces his start in 2000 sweeping floors while his father worked the parts side of the industry.[00:02:08] - Lessons from a badly run first shop reveal what not to do, from high turnover to dishonest practices, and why every example teaches something.[00:04:07] - As a working manager, Matt helps take a location from roughly 250k to about 690k in annual revenue and learns the power of a “dirty white shirt” at the counter.[00:05:23] - Moving to a long-standing Mobil station, Matt becomes the fourth owner and leans into European and luxury work while still serving mainstream makes.[00:07:14] - He invests in tools with intent, maintains NASTF security credentials, and builds reciprocal relationships with specialty shops to fill capability gaps.[00:09:10] - Team snapshot: two techs, one inspector, one service writer, and a culture focused on customer experience, mentorship, and generational perspective.[00:11:29] - KPIs on the table: about 1.6M total revenue, roughly 300 cars a month, near 420 ARO, and state inspections at 35 dollars that add six figures in volume.[00:15:02] - Strategy over size: optimize a single shop for quality and efficiency before chasing bay count, even while eyeing a stretch goal near 3.6M from three bays.[00:23:05] - Training in action: on-the-job diagnostics, WTI lunch-and-learns, ASE replays, and curated YouTube content to keep skills sharp across the team.[00:30:46] - Every vehicle gets a DVI and the 300 percent rule keeps inspections, estimates, and presentations consistent, with QC as the next level up.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning friends. So excited to be here with you today. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Joining me today is Matt Krantz from Long Meadow Garage and it is a three Bay Garage at a gas station with a C store, and with Fuel. And Matt, you own all of this, correct?
Jimmy Lea: Correct. Yep. Oh my gosh, Matt, and you're joining me from those of you. You can't see this, but you can hear this. It looks like Matt is joining me from a janitor closet converted to an office. What are we looking at here, Matt?
Matt Kranz: It is, it's just a small office in the back. Originally we did all the paperwork by hand, so there wasn't a need for much.
Matt Kranz: And we never improved it. We're working on some improvements to maybe make this office open floor into the shop, so,
Jimmy Lea: oh, that, that is awesome. I think if you put your hands out, left to right, you could probably touch both walls.
Matt Kranz: It looks that small. I think I can actually, yeah,
Jimmy Lea: it's that small and front to back is probably just about the same.
Jimmy Lea: You could probably see about the same. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well that's awesome. So, your shop, you've got the three bays, but let's I wanna go back in time to when you started in the automotive industry. What did that look like for you? And then we'll come where you are today and then we'll go to where you're going in the future.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So where did you start?
Matt Kranz: I started in about 2000 and started working at the shop, sweeping the floors down the road. My father actually owned a muffler shop back then. It was a mining gee. So it was a good beginning. And I wound up he wound up selling that and moved on and he became basically a parts rep.
Matt Kranz: So he worked for different parts companies throughout the years and, I wound up continuing to work on like weekends because I was still in high school at that point, right. I was gonna just take a year off to save some money for college or technical school, and I wound up taking that year off, making some money and never went back to school.
Matt Kranz: Taught myself, and
Jimmy Lea: here we are, school of hard knocks. So you went straight into a shop.
Matt Kranz: I went into a terrible, terribly run shop. I stuck with it, but I saw, you know, what, some of the people, the high turnover rate and the dishonesty. I got to see all that, learn from it and learn from their mistakes.
Matt Kranz: And I, I took all the experiences with, you know, basically with for gold that they. Experiences you could not get. You could only be told about,
Jimmy Lea: yes. Told about, or you have to experience it and what you experienced is that everyone is a good example. Everyone's a good,
Matt Kranz: yeah. Yeah. A good example. Do even when you're doing things wrong, you're a great example
Jimmy Lea: or a bad example of what you shouldn't do or a good example of what you shouldn't do.
Jimmy Lea: That. That is awesome that you were able to do that. How long were you at the shop then? How long were you there? Breaking knuckles, cutting your teeth.
Matt Kranz: At that shop for about six, no, seven years, I think it was seven years. And as I started, they, you know, the people who owned it, you know, with the turnover.
Matt Kranz: I think we went through 20 managers in the first two years. And I was just sweeping the floor. I was still learning how to, you know, work on things and work on 'em on the side because a lot of the stuff they did was only brake suspension. An exhaust. And that didn't excite me. I wanted to get more into engine's performance.
Matt Kranz: I did a lot with racing. So like anybody, I got myself in trouble. But, you know, it I wound up finding the right ways to do it. So today I can show the guys, you know, some of my race cars and bring 'em out and say, look, let's go to the track and we're gonna, we're gonna go to speed limit to the track.
Jimmy Lea: B limit to the track, and then on the track, now it's time to race.
Matt Kranz: Now it's time to have fun. Go break something now. Just don't hurt yourself. Yeah. But the yeah, I mean all those experiences, you know, I eventually wound up managing that, that location. So we started out, I guess the first couple years that was a 200 to $250,000 in total revenue operation.
Matt Kranz: The last year I left, which would've been oh seven, was the total, was the complete year. That year we closed out at about six 90. So big improvement, and I was the manager for the previous four years. So, I feel like I was responsible for that.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. Yeah, you were responsible for that.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. So how long were you at this shop then at turning a wrench and managing
Matt Kranz: About seven years total. Seven years
Jimmy Lea: total.
Matt Kranz: Oh, seven years total. And I was a working manager, so I was expected to be in the shop. You know, we'd run back and forth to the counter, talk to the customers. And I think that helped a lot.
Matt Kranz: 'cause they'd see it covered in grease and they'd be like, oh, this isn't just a salesman telling me what's wrong with my car.
Jimmy Lea: No, this is the guy working on my car, telling me what's going.
Matt Kranz: Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Psychology. I was able to, you know, pull up from that. I found the dirty white shirt sold stuff to those people better than a, you know, a clean shirt.
Matt Kranz: They were, they wanted to talk to the mechanic if you had a shirt, clean shirt.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my word. That's awesome. Congrats on that. So at what point did you look at where you were in your life and you look at these seven years and you're like, okay, no, I think I wanna start my own shop.
Matt Kranz: So actually I had the opportunity to come to this mobile gas station, which had been around since 1941.
Matt Kranz: It's on, it's, I'm the fourth generation of ownership to it. It's only two of them were within a family, and the others were, we're just partners that, that came through and worked and made it happen. I always had a, you know, app for the high-end cars for, you know, really nice stuff. And this, believe it or not, this shop is only about four miles up the road.
Matt Kranz: But what a difference in clientele and in what we work on. You know, now I've moved I've always been a master tech since I was able to get the certification and. Now I'm working on, you know, your top cars that are out there between, you know, Maseratis, you know, we get you know, Bentleys range Rovers, lots of them, BMWs, Mercedes.
Matt Kranz: And then we'll work on your Honda and Chevy too. Those are easy when you work on a lot of the European stuff. I, in this area, I can't believe how many people don't want to touch it 'cause it's like too mentally tolling. But. I've always needed that stimulation. I need it if I'm not challenged and it's easy.
Matt Kranz: It's not fun.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and you're working on the Lamborghinis and the Ferraris as well, right?
Matt Kranz: No Ferrari, occasional Lamborghini, but I have the factory sports
Jimmy Lea: luxury vehicles. Yep. Nice. And I, you know, I think that's probably a lot of the scare for a lot of people is that they are worried about trying to get all of this extra equipment, scanners, tools, everything that has to go along with working on that vehicle and they just can't do it.
Matt Kranz: It is a requirement. Yeah. I mean, there is a, any, anything that I don't have, it's 'cause I don't want it. It's I've made the decision that either it's not financially feasible or it's not a brand that I want to commit in full to.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. So are you what are the flags that you have chosen to not renew?
Matt Kranz: Mercedes Century, believe it or not I've left anything for that to be remotely programmed. And there's a route that I can still work on it and do anything that's needed. I do have a locksmith id with nastf that I can purchase all the security relevant parts. So that, I mean, that's important for anybody out there, but, there's certain things that we just haven't, we haven't wanted to get, you know, fully vested into that. But I always try to have a relationship with other shops that do so a lot of times I can help them with a, you know, a tool or a scanner procedure that they don't have. And I hope that they can help me too.
Matt Kranz: Which it works out. It's a good compli.
Jimmy Lea: And that's true. So are you locking arms with a lot of these competitors? We'll call 'em competitors in the industry, but they're really not competitors. They're your band of brothers that you get together and you help each other.
Jimmy Lea: Do you find yourself working a lot of these other shops?
Matt Kranz: Yeah the competitors I've been, you know, they're not competitors, like you said. They're really, these are people we can network with and work with because they do things that I don't and vice versa.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true.
Jimmy Lea: Oh man. It's just awesome that you can work together with these people. And so, you run the fuel, the C store and the bays. You've got three bays. How many techs do you have today working with you
Matt Kranz: today? I have two techs. The third one is my inspection guy, Nick. He's really good. But he doesn't have the full technical backing, so he needs some help with some of the technical stuff. But his primary job is inspections. He keeps himself busy over there. So, it, that, it's really a good compliment. I do also have a service writer, Marcus. He does all the, you know, ordering up parts, writing up everything.
Matt Kranz: So he,
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Matt Kranz: it, everybody worked really well together. I have, I think, the best crew I've ever had here. And I was able to get myself out. That's awesome. The shop, that was one of my goals. So I could focus, you know, on the different things in the business, you know, making the customer's experience better and actually passing some of my knowledge down to these guys.
Matt Kranz: 'cause I, as, as young as I think I am, there's so much that I find that they've never seen. We actually just had a conversation this morning about minivans. We had to fix a door on a Toyota Sienna minivan. The cable broke and. I looked at Ben and I said, well, it's weird to have two doors on a van and Marcus is about my age and agreed.
Matt Kranz: And Ben said, I've never seen a van with one door. What are you talking about?
Jimmy Lea: Ah, that's awesome. Oh, that's hilarious. That's funny. Haven't seen a van with one door. Yeah, I grew up with the one door Dodge Caravans.
Matt Kranz: That's right. Lee Koka had those down. I mean he years, he perfected several body styles of those.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, he sure did. Oh my gosh. That's hilarious. That is hilarious. Yeah the the double doors is, in my mind it's new, but gosh, it's been around for 10, 15 years now that they've had double doors.
Jimmy Lea: I just haven't, it's not been on my radar, you know?
Matt Kranz: No it's so funny 'cause it, it came up and I was like, holy crap. Like, we're not that we're only a 10 year, 11, 12 year age difference. But what a difference generationally.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. You know, it's, and it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.
Jimmy Lea: People are people and we all learn. So, to speak of people being people what is your, what do your numbers look like right now? Are you familiar with your kpi? Yeah, right.
Matt Kranz: I have a cheat sheet here, so I don't box them so anybody can check me. But our total revenue last year we did real well.
Matt Kranz: We did 1.6 million and that did include inspections. That's really three bays. It's more two bays. It was 1.5 and some change. Not counting the inspections. Yeah. So each of my techs billed out about 2000 hours. And my car counts about three, it's like three 90, or I'm sorry, 2 97, almost 300 per month.
Matt Kranz: And our RO is about four 20. Nice. So. So you're looking at about
Jimmy Lea: 300 cars per month? Is that what I heard? 300 cars? Yeah. 2, 9, 7. And then your average repair order's in the 4 54 24 20 range. Nice. Solid. And is that average repair orders, does that include your estate inspections?
Matt Kranz: It does not.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. What is your, what are you able to charge for your state inspections?
Matt Kranz: Those are $35. So that, that equates to, you know, usually a hundred to $120,000 a year. Yeah. In, in, in $35 inspections.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. That's a lot of vehicles. That is just horrendous. But I'm glad you're getting 35 in the state of Utah.
Jimmy Lea: They were getting 16. Oh, wow. And they went to the state and they're like, you know, we're losing our butts here on this state inspection stuff. We need 41. And the state said, oh, you want 41, do you? Okay, you can have 19. We need 41. Oh, okay. We're gonna cancel the program. There you go. Oh geez. Oh yeah. So the state of Utah, I'm scared now.
Jimmy Lea: There's cars broke down on the side of the road all the time. Because there's no state inspection. You can see 'em their ball joints give out their control arms, their sway bars. They're pigeon toes. They're you know, they're,
Matt Kranz: yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh. It's so scary. It's like Florida
Matt Kranz: Connecticut's the same way.
Matt Kranz: But it helps that they have a higher per capita income, so people are more apt to spend some money, which is the game. But once again, there's no safety inspection. They only do emissions.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my God. Yeah.
Matt Kranz: Out by us. It's been 35 since 2011, and that came up from 29 and 29, I wanna say was in 97 or 98.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah,
Matt Kranz: so there really hasn't been, it, I mean, it hasn't followed inflation at all.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, it really doesn't. And the funny thing about the state of Utah is there is emissions test only if you're in the big cities. If you live in a town that's smaller than a certain population, you do not have to get emissions.
Matt Kranz: Oh, interesting. Didn't realize that. Yeah. So I think you're in, there's enough trees. There's enough trees to suck up the knots.
Jimmy Lea: No, that's the funny thing. It's all down in the desert. Trees don't touch knots. There are no trees. It's all cactus and lizards and tortoise and coyote. Oh, wow. But up here in northern Utah, they have these inversions where the smog gets so bad it just holds the cold air low.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. It's due to the smog. And so they really are trying to eliminate that. So anyways, so you're working in your shop. You, I mean these are some good numbers. You got rocking there. You right in line with the national averages, which is, that's awesome. That's very cool. Where, what is the future look like for you,
Matt Kranz: Matt?
Matt Kranz: I really the biggest goal, you know, every time I look to expand, maybe buy another shop, but to expand I don't think is the right answer. 'cause you know, I can give a real nice personal service, focus on everything. I have a great crew and keep my stress low and there's no turnover. If anything, I think work on efficiency and how to make these guys the best they are.
Matt Kranz: You know.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, totally. My, my
Matt Kranz: problem right now is I'm booking out three weeks and yeah, we have to apologize to customers for that, but it's not like we get, you know, 10 bays, 10 techs and then we have to apologize 'cause the car wasn't fixed right the first time and came back. Then we kill the quality and I've always been huge into the quality over quantity.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I got a buddy with a three bay shop in Denver, Colorado. Fourex. They do 3.6 million.
Matt Kranz: Nice.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty good. So there's a goal for you, 3.6.
Matt Kranz: Heck yeah. It's all efficiency at that game.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And he's tucked in, he has, he owns his building. He owns a small little parking lot, and they, their efficiencies have to be super high because they cannot have vehicles parked for long amounts of time.
Jimmy Lea: So they're constantly pulling in, pulling out, pulling and pulling out vehicles. So 3.6, put that on your radar.
Matt Kranz: Yeah. Yeah. That's a big goal, but I'm down for it. Yeah. If we don't up the challenge, then there's no point in doing it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And if you're getting ready, if you're looking at this saying, okay, I either want to optimize my single location or expand the kingdom, and we can operate at a solid 80, 90, 90 5% efficiency.
Jimmy Lea: Hey man, that's solid too. Let's expand the kingdom and now you're, you have two and three and four and five, and maybe you down the road you get to 10 that have, and you can private equity and they have a legacy because in a, are you familiar with private equity in these situations that they're putting together?
Matt Kranz: Yes, ma'am.
Jimmy Lea: This legacy could live on and on. You could have. The ability to resell the business every three to five years, and you continue to be part of the operations. But at that point, when you've got 10 locations, you've got process, procedure, down, you've got a team in place, you're operating at the top of the level.
Jimmy Lea: You're sitting on a beach and drinking my ties while the shop is being run by the team. Yep. The kingdom is being run by the team, so it's a great opportunity and it's awesome to get in while you're young, to be able to have this legacy generational money now for the, for the family. And it could come from a single location optimized at a 4 million out of three bays, or it could be that you've expanded the footprint and now you're 10 locations.
Jimmy Lea: Either way, get your process procedures down, help the team get better together with you. And there you go. So I heard a quote a while ago. I wanna run this past you, Matt, and see what your thoughts are here. The quote was, just because you own a business doesn't mean you're a good leader. It's true.
Jimmy Lea: What does that say to you?
Matt Kranz: That I a hundred percent agree with that. I've seen, yeah you gotta show your guys the way, you gotta guide 'em. You can't sit on top of the trailer and let them tow you. You gotta help push the trailer with them. That's, I that it's all too common in this area.
Matt Kranz: And it, I think it just creates arrogance.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. And that's,
Matt Kranz: there's no place for that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Do you see a lot of shops in a we'll call it a Mexican standoff where they're standing toe to toe and they think each other are enemies, but really we need to be a brotherhood.
Matt Kranz: That's, honestly, that's one of the biggest things I see whenever, and I haven't done a whole lot of networking to the point that I want to.
Matt Kranz: But whenever I have an, you know, a parts guy call me and like, Hey, Matt, how do you set this up? Can you help this guy out? He is not familiar and a lot of times it's a shop that I don't wanna point down 'em, but they're, they may be in their infancy with technology. They, they've resisted for long enough and now they have to get into it.
Matt Kranz: I've actually helped set up about 10 different guys in the area with these, you know, different secure links. And I'm like, where have you guys been? Like, Subaru's got it. Mercedes has it. Chrysler has it like Volkswagen with GRP now. Either way, the point being is whenever I talk to him and they're almost like, oh, he's from Matter Garage.
Matt Kranz: I've heard of him and I'm a problem solver. Shop. So I'll get a lot of cars that went to other shops and I charge through the nose for it. But when you come in and you preface that, oh, they put all these parts in and now you're asking for this much money, I look at 'em and say, you didn't pay me any of it.
Matt Kranz: You could have paid me this the first time, and
Jimmy Lea: oh, and I would've fixed it right the first time too, by the way. You're right.
Matt Kranz: But the reality with it is when they start that standoff I kind of look at it and I'm like, why do you think we're competitors? We're not competitors at all. I'm fixing the things you can't fix and I'm not taking your simple brake jobs or your simple work, or we work together and I can, you know, I can compliment you.
Matt Kranz: So when you compress that caliper on the back of the Audi and you can't get that light to reset 'cause your guy unplugged the motor. I got your back. You know, let's work on that. Yeah. Oh, that's so good. But usually that's what I see is it's the guys resisting the change.
Jimmy Lea: Well, thank you for being the voice of change there, Matt, in your of the woods Bond.
Jimmy Lea: Bond with them lock arms together. Let's, we can do this together. There's no way you could service every vehicle that passes your shop. There's no way that the six of you could service every vehicle that passes in front of your six shop. There's no way the 10 of you could pass and service the vehicles.
Jimmy Lea: There's so much business to go around. We are. What's a friendly competition? We're frenemies, but we're not enemies. There you go. Friendly competition. We friendly competition works like a team and we build each other.
Matt Kranz: Yeah. Sometimes we got, eh, you know this guy said this much and you're said this much.
Matt Kranz: You know what? That'll keep us honest. I'm good with that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It is not a bad thing. It's not a bad thing.
Matt Kranz: It's a good, I keep getting that you're gonna be cheaper than the dealer and I, whoa. Well, we're probably not gonna be cheaper than the dealer. We're gonna be about the same. 'cause the parts are the parts when we get that level of part.
Matt Kranz: But ultimately, I'm way less expensive than the dealer, even though I may charge the same amount. I have a crew and people that care about the car you're working on. Whereas at the dealer, you might get that superstar, that awesome guy, the head tech, the upcoming guy that really cares about what he's doing.
Matt Kranz: But you might get a guy they had to hire 'cause they have to get warranty work out the door and you don't really want him tearing your car apart.
Jimmy Lea: No. And the only reason he got hired is 'cause he could fog a mirror. You're right. And that's scary. That's the wrong person to put on the bus.
Matt Kranz: I mean, I'm, I guess I've been very unique with some of my hiring that if we're, in the past when we were shorthanded, I was out there and I said, you know what?
Matt Kranz: I'm gonna pick up the slack. I'm gonna help you guys out. Like, this is a team. I'm part of it, and we're doing this until we find another person. And I get that at the dealer. They can't, it's nobody that can jump in and do that. But heck yeah, we're gonna be more, we hire a better quality. We work as a better quality.
Jimmy Lea: I just have had quite a few conversations here recently about training. What do you do for training, for your technicians, for your advisors? What do you do that way?
Matt Kranz: Currently there's not as much as I'd like, but I'm always grabbing things. So I actually just the other day we ran into it with a with a, a Jeep Diesel and it came up with a PO four 20, a catalyst efficiency.
Matt Kranz: And then my, one of my head techs came over and scratched his head and said, I'm not sure what to do. And I said, me either, but let's read the service manual together. And we did. And it, you know, it was Chrysler typical test A, B, and C and go through the tree. And then I, you know, I said, well, why? I wanna know why they had us go in this order.
Matt Kranz: So I, I actually looked it up and brought in a bunch of it today. So I think that on the job training, just the interest in what he was doing is really helpful and beneficial for them. And I'll grab Carlos and, Hey man, listen to this. You know, you weren't involved, but I want you to see what we went through over this.
Matt Kranz: And then also I've been actually really happy with the the lunchtime training. We've been sitting down about every two weeks. And do either the Tuesday or Thursday launch time training with WTI, which has been really cool. A SE has an awesome program. I'm, those are at night and I can't sit the guys down at the shop.
Matt Kranz: But what I've been trying to do is I'll, I found a hack that I can sign in, take the course myself, which I just like learning it anyways. And then two days later they'll send me a link so that I can replay the course. So I make sure the guys all get a copy of that. And hey, if you're sitting around, dunno what to do.
Matt Kranz: Take a look. You know, the Snap-on actually has the really good YouTube channels that update all the time. I was, I maybe you can gimme some more that are awesome. I'm always looking for 'em. You know, be it dormant or standard or some of 'em are very focused on the sales, but there's always something you can grab from 'em.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, there always is. Yeah. The more your technicians can learn to be the best technicians they can be, the better it is for the consumer, the customer, and the experience. And let's also translate that to the service advisor. I talked to some shop owners, they're like, oh no. I'm not gonna train my advisors.
Jimmy Lea: Why not? They need training. They need training on communication, on creating estimates, best practices.
Matt Kranz: I found there is a go ahead. That training is much more difficult to find. I've been very interested, actually. I was so excited and I unexplained it to all the guys, and I told 'em, I said, I really look like a jerk, but let me explain why.
Matt Kranz: And the name of the seminar was triage diagnosis. So from triage diagnosis, I took that to mean the first step when you walk in the door. How do we start the diagnosis? So we start to talk to the customer, you know, that we form a relationship, we talk to 'em and we say, Hey, you know what? So what happened when the battery light came on?
Matt Kranz: What were you doing? How fast was the car driving? You know, were you accelerating, stopping going? Did it go out thereafter? How did you get here today? And the point is through the little explanations that I asked, maybe I can deter. It's probably a bad alternator. And then our shop efficiency is so, so important.
Matt Kranz: And just that simple, you know, flow that service writers, I find that a lot of 'em miss because they're missing. I'm obviously very fluent in it, but I have an extremely technical background. These guys don't but they can do it. They just need to be shown.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Matt Kranz: Yeah,
Jimmy Lea: and sure.
Matt Kranz: I actually, I have them, you know, him and my state inspector sit on even when.
Matt Kranz: They're not gonna lose.
Jimmy Lea: No. They'll always learn something. They'll always learn something of value.
Matt Kranz: Sometimes it's as simple as the process with the case study. Like, Hey, this is the process of what they did, and guess what? They can explain that process to a customer. So that's important.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And there's a new news relative, I think they'd been around for a year and a half, maybe even two years. Today's class technical training. Have you heard about this one?
Matt Kranz: Today's class. Today's class, I haven't.
Jimmy Lea: So it's an app that the technicians log onto and it's gamification from this app.
Jimmy Lea: They have different scenarios and they've got a multiple choice, so depending on how long it takes them to answer the question and if they get the answer right or wrong. It will guide them into some training about that subject. So it's got five different questions a day and they just answer the questions.
Jimmy Lea: The beauty of this as well is the gamification. You get points for answering these questions. Okay, so who's got the most points at the shop? Who's the highest rank at the shop? But then also. You compete, shop to shop as well.
Matt Kranz: Oh, no kidding.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's super cool. I
Matt Kranz: just pulled it up. This I wrote it down so I don't forget, so I was scrambling.
Matt Kranz: Yeah. In
Jimmy Lea: class. So check them out and then for your service advisors, go onto to, we are the institute.com, but go to our YouTube channel. We have a tremendous amount of free information for service advisor training. Okay, you can dive into, and if you want to dig in deeper, man, there's some stuff that we could help out there as well.
Jimmy Lea: But that's another road down the street, and we'll talk about that in a minute. So, into where you are today, you've got the four technicians, the three bays, the two
Matt Kranz: technicians,
Jimmy Lea: one inspector, one
Matt Kranz: service writer.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I was GI. So here's my four. I thought you had the two. I got four employees. State inspection and a gs.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So this is a service advisor? Yes. The fourth person? Yes. Yes. Okay. Nice man. They're busy too, huh? They are
Matt Kranz: busy.
Jimmy Lea: They're busy. That's good. And what point of sale system are you running?
Matt Kranz: Right now we run Shocky Pro. So Mi It's a Mitchell.
Jimmy Lea: Mitchell? Yep.
Matt Kranz: Mitchell manager se
Jimmy Lea: nice. You like it Does everything you need to.
Matt Kranz: I do. I really like it. We don't use it to its full potential. But that's kind of good because we can learn and integrate things little by little. Love it. We're small enough that we can communicate really well in the shop. So, digital vehicle inspections
Jimmy Lea: are you
Matt Kranz: doing? We do. We're using both on, we're using both on, yep.
Matt Kranz: So we, we love their inspections. I'm still torn about the text messaging. I that, but, you know, give and take. I feel it loses some of that personal touch. I don't like to solely work on the text message, so
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. No. Well, and there are some people that, that's how they prefer to communicate
Matt Kranz: is the younger kids like, don't even want a phone call.
Matt Kranz: They're like, oh, no, why are they calling me? They're already anxious enough about this car repair, and now they're getting a phone call on top of it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So there's times where I can't take phone calls. Okay with the text messages, zoom meetings and think of attorneys and doctors and government employees.
Jimmy Lea: They can't always get to the phone to answer the call, but if you text them, they can text you back. Yes. And that's a beautiful way of communicating. So it goes very quickly. But then, and that also is our ask from the shop side is, Hey customer, when I text you, it's not because I want to chitchat. There's stuff we gotta talk about.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So answer your text message, answer the phone call. If we need to have a phone call let's take it to that next level so the relationship is not lost just because of texting. Yeah. Oh, that's cool. So I love You're doing dvs every vehicle, every time.
Matt Kranz: Yes. Every vehicle gets a 27 point inspection no matter what.
Matt Kranz: Love it.
Matt Kranz: The only time there's exceptions is when somebody's out sick, it happens. And I'm like, all right we gotta squash the schedule together and get it done. And, you know, we use some discretion with that. For the most part though, everybody's still going over 'em, you know, so they're still, they're pulling in, they've got the process down at this point that they're already, you know, checking the lights on the way in the bay.
Matt Kranz: And you know, they're looking at the brakes because nobody wants to sit there and watch the oil drain. Those guys don't work here.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No. Really, truly. Yeah. I love that you're doing dvs. There's one rule that you'll wanna follow. It's called a 300% Rule. Yep. You're familiar with this one?
Matt Kranz: I am familiar with it. I have brought that paper. I don't remember who wrote it through Ratchet and Wrench, and I brought it out to all of them and read it. And that's one of the staples on the wall that it gets pulled down every so often.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. That
Matt Kranz: Moline method.
Jimmy Lea: Every vehicle, every time is inspected.
Jimmy Lea: Every recommendation is estimated, and every estimate is given to the customer, given to the client. And Cecil will take this even a little bit further to say The 500% rule includes that every vehicle gets a quality control test on a specific route. You have a specific route that you follow every single time and you explain all that to the customer and the client.
Jimmy Lea: He's got another one. I forget what his other one is, but it's he takes it up to another level.
Matt Kranz: Okay.
Jimmy Lea: So the 300% rule definitely covers it. That's the one that's popular in the industry. So let's stick with that one for right now. Matt, what's the future? I know we talk about optimizing the single location, possibly expanding.
Jimmy Lea: Where do you see the industry as a whole going in the next five to 10 years?
Matt Kranz: As a whole, it's I think it's gonna, it's gonna explode as far as the. Shops that are not hiring and doing things right, are gonna fizzle out. They're gonna be out of business. And we, I watched that since 2008.
Matt Kranz: I, I can't tell you how many shops I watched fizzle out. They're not there anymore. And I'm looking back and saying, well, look at how you ran it. Of course it's out. So I guess I was fortunate enough to be able to open my eyes to that and see it. But I think unfortunately that. Repairs are gonna become slower because I, I keep reading the statistics, I don't know if it's true.
Matt Kranz: But pretty much for every four techs that retire, there's only one coming in.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. And
Matt Kranz: we can only handle so many cars. There's more cars going on the road. So, you know, it's either gonna be a long time for repairs or people are gonna start to have that second car or that fun car, which I can see as a benefit because cars are supposed to be fun.
Matt Kranz: I keep showing my son that. And you know, there's a lot of people that and kids of the younger generation that are like, well, it's transportation. I don't care what it looks like.
Jimmy Lea: Well,
Matt Kranz: maybe lemme show you some, I guess. Yeah, right. Exactly. Exactly. Actually my, my, my brother-in-law he, I have a couple older cars and race cars and he's like, I don't understand what's so exciting about the loud pipes and the, you know, the fast, you know, bill, you can't go fast on these roads around here.
Matt Kranz: So, but you can get there fast.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You can
Matt Kranz: get to the speed fast.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. You go stop, sign a stop sign fast.
Matt Kranz: That's it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. He just doesn't
Matt Kranz: have that appreciation. But nobody's ever sat him in a car and showed him, so
Jimmy Lea: there you go. Take him to an HRA event. Yeah, so, so you could see his reaction for the funny cars.
Matt Kranz: Yeah, right. I was, well, I was just trying to get my son is 13 and we me and my wife slowly discussed him joining the junior street in the NHRA, which is it'd be kind of a cool intro for me. He loves go-karts. That might, you know, you know what my disappointment is I don't see a lot of other people up there.
Matt Kranz: Not a lot of people doing it, which tells me that. People aren't shown how fun these can, these cars can be.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Anybody listening, if ever you have an opportunity to go to NHRA, you definitely need to go. It is an experience unlike anything you'll ever experience.
Matt Kranz: So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah, listen to the announcers, 'cause they'll go through the stock cars, they'll go through the modifieds, they'll go through the this one and they'll get to the funny cars and the top fuel.
Jimmy Lea: And you can definitely see who the virgins are in the audience when they start up that engine. You have never felt that experience ever. I guarantee it. Yep. Oh that's, yeah, because I was there. I was there. I was the virgin going, holy
Matt Kranz: coach, what the heck was that? Well, that's 12,000 horsepower, right.
Matt Kranz: It's only half though. You only feel half of it. 'cause the other half's on the other side.
Jimmy Lea: Right? Oh, it's so true, dude. Oh my gosh. The family was just in shock. It was so much fun. My son was like, oh my gosh, can you feel that? Oh, and it just rattles your heart and your chest. It just feels like, oh yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Burst outside. So awesome. So awesome. So if you were to start your shop today, Matt. What advice would you give yourself today, starting your shop today?
Matt Kranz: Man,
Matt Kranz: That's a tough one. I would I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I guess the biggest thing is just to, you know what? You're gonna get frustrated. Don't take anything personally, it took me a lot of years to not take a lot of the problems with these cars personally or.
Matt Kranz: You know, somebody's frustrated 'cause the car isn't fixed and hey, you know, it's an intermittent problem or I'm not sure what's wrong with it. And I've always been anchored to the shop because of it. And it's been recent years that I said, Hey, you know, it's not a personal thing if somebody doesn't want to have their car fixed by you or says no to the work or even, you know, if you can't fix the car.
Matt Kranz: I guess some of that, taking it personally did help me be better because I would go home and I need to find out everything I can about this system, how it works, and why can't I figure out what's wrong with it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. No, that, that is that, Matt. That is really good advice. Don't take it personally. It's business.
Jimmy Lea: Don't take it personally. What else? It's
Matt Kranz: just a car in the end.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it's a car. And what I also heard from you in our conversation is not only don't take it personally, but. Get training. Get training for your technicians. They need the training. Get training for your service advisors. They need the training.
Jimmy Lea: Get training for you as an owner. You need the training. Yep. Yeah and that's our mantra here at the Institute is we're here to help you build a better business. And the net result of building a better business is a better life. And it's not just a better life for you, it's a better life for your technicians, for your service advisors, for their spouses, for their children.
Jimmy Lea: For the entire company. It's a better life for them as well. It's a better life for your customers, your clients, your those people who trust you to take care of their vehicles. They're safer on the road. They'll be able to stop when they need to stop and go when they need to go, so you're building a better life for them.
Jimmy Lea: Build a better business, a better life, and a better industry. That's our mantra here at the Institute. We're gonna lock arms with all these shops so that we can build this industry to be the best it could possibly be.

151 - "Ask Me Anything" with Michael Smith & Lucas Underwood

151 - "Ask Me Anything" with Michael Smith & Lucas Underwood
October 1, 2025 - 00:57:35
Show Summary:
Firefighting your week away? Lucas Underwood and Michael Smith chart a clear path from operator to investor, showing shop owners how to turn daily chaos into durable, transferable value. Human capital takes center stage with culture, trust, and leadership systems that make great work repeatable and businesses sellable. They unpack exit strategy myths, the three “languages” of success (repair, leadership, finance), and why abundance beats scarcity every time. Expect practical plays for full transparency DVIs, customer stewardship, and quality control that builds loyalty instead of skepticism. The message: compete on value, not price, and future proof your wealth while your team and customers win too.
 
Host(s):
Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast
 
Guest(s):
Michael Smith, Chief Strategy Officer at The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:00] - Michael shares his background in consulting and why he fell in love with the automotive industry after helping shop owners improve profits and quality of life.[00:03:30] - Discussion on how many owners spend decades just getting by without building business value or retirement plans.[00:06:00] - Lucas reflects on how shop owners often fight daily fires without fixing the core issues that cause them.[00:08:20] - Michael explains why every shop owner must define their exit strategy from day one to avoid regret later.[00:11:20] - The two contrast the operator mindset versus the investor mindset and why both are necessary for long-term growth.[00:14:10] - Michael describes the three essential “languages” of success: repair, leadership, and finance—and why all can be learned.[00:20:00] - They dive into how shop culture forms naturally, why it often becomes toxic, and how leaders can “clear the water.”[00:25:00] - Lucas shares how rebuilding culture requires trust, accountability, and servant leadership focused on people first.[00:28:30] - The conversation shifts to abundance vs. scarcity thinking... and how businesses built on abundance outperform over time.[00:50:00] - Michael and Lucas break down why competing on value, not price, is the key to profitability and long-term sustainability.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://youtu.be/6r8KExJtBgk
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Lucas Underwood: Good afternoon everybody. My name is Lucas Underwood from l and m Performance Automotive Repair, and the Changing the Industry podcast. I'm here for another AMA webinar with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. And today I have the honor of having Mr. Michael Smith. The main leadership man at the institute joining me.
Lucas Underwood: I am so excited to have you here, Michael. I know. Michael, would you do us a favor and introduce yourself so those that don't know you, don't know who you are yet, can kind of get a feel of who you are and where you came from?
Michael Smith: Absolutely. I am 45 years in the professional space. I grew up. Up to up 31st, 35 years.
Michael Smith: We're outside of the industry that we're in now, and about 10 years ago, I came from the big consulting firms, have experience in private equity holding companies. And I came here about a decade ago to when I met a guy who had three shops and he said, Hey. Can you help me take a look at what I've got?
Michael Smith: I'm not having enough fun or making enough money to keep doing this. I gotta change something. And I dug in with him. And guys, I gotta tell you I, I fell in love with this industry. So I've been here focusing primarily on this for almost. Almost 10 years at this point. And I bring, I have never fixed a car in a shop in my life, so I don't come as an owner operator.
Michael Smith: I come from the owner investor perspective, from the outside investment perspective, the high performance business building perspective. I bring different things to the table which is fun to be here. Lucas, it's really fun to be able to share what I know with the people here. This is a hard business and a hard industry, and we got awesome people here.
Michael Smith: So it's my privilege, my friend.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely, sir. Absolutely. And you know, a after I got to know you a little bit and got to pick your brain a little bit, I began to see that you had a different perspective on business valuations. That you had a different perspective of why we were doing this.
Lucas Underwood: And it's something we often lose in the automotive space, and I think it's very valuable for you to be here with us for that very reason. Because I go to work to fix cars. And you go to work to make sure that I make money while fixing cars and make sure that I have something to leave my children generational wealth.
Lucas Underwood: And it's bigger than just money, right? Like it, it's a sustainable business. It's something that isn't as taxing for the next generation. It's smart business. More than anything else.
Michael Smith: I'll tell you one of the first things I learned when I got here was what a challenge our industry is.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Michael Smith: And it's, it can become a daily urgent to urgent issue, one after the other, and then the days fly by.
Michael Smith: And the week starts on Monday and you know, before you unlock the door, it's like, okay, here we go. And then the hell storm starts, if you will, for lots of folks. And then you crash your way through the week and Friday afternoon you're trying to get as many cars out as you can and then the doors lock and you're like,
Lucas Underwood: oh.
Michael Smith: And then, you know, maybe you have a weekend and you pick up and do it again. And I say that only from the perspective that you can do that for 30. 35, 40 years. You're exactly right. And the end, back to the value question. Doing that in such a way that you're just getting by no investment perspective, no money, set aside, profits are, when they do finally show up and they're stable, you pull it out because you're not sure if you're gonna see 'em again.
Michael Smith: And time flies by. And the sad statistic is, and I'll turn it back over to you, 75% of owners of privately owned companies, and I actually believe it's more in our industry, they, this is the quote. Profoundly regret. The way they exited because they didn't know what they were doing. And I've got stories under my belt knowing all the people we know.
Michael Smith: $120,000 for your shop, that's what you have to retire on at 65. How can you retire at sixty five, a hundred twenty five grand? You can't, you end up working somewhere else. And that literally, we've talked about this, that's why I'm here. I don't want that for as many people as we can touch and help. Right.
Michael Smith: That's literally what. Yeah,
Lucas Underwood: so absolutely a hundred percent. And you know, we I met you the first time at Leadership Intensive and some really interesting things because. I'm not gonna lie, Michael, the first interaction with you, I thought, this guy's trying to convince me to sell my shop. This is some wonky proposal, like one of those weird deals.
Lucas Underwood: Is this a Ponzi scheme? What's this guy up to? And then the second meeting that I was in that you were at, you said something that I thought was extremely profound and you said venture capital and private equity realized that nothing exists without human capital. There is no profit without human capital, and they understand the value of human capital.
Lucas Underwood: And so if you don't understand the value of human capital, why are you doing what you're doing? And I thought that for, well,
Michael Smith: Lemme add to that. Some of the finance guys get it. And what I mean by that is you can play a pure finance game irrespective of humans, and you'll do okay, but you can't optimize unless you understand that.
Michael Smith: I mean, we're as about as technical a business as you can be. But if you think about it, all the work passes through multiple hands from the first time a customer drives in until they drive home. And many humans are touching that. So we can SOP ourselves to death and we need to, from a sustainability or from a transferability to a new owner and a consistency standpoint for quality.
Michael Smith: But that's not the key to getting it done. Every time a human touches it, if they blow the systems or they screw up the relationships, then everything starts to slow down and not be as good as it could be. And so at what you and I have talked about a lot, it comes back to the human factors. Yeah.
Michael Smith: People, human capital is your greatest. Asset. And if you don't know how to manage it, that's a great place to start. 'cause fixing cars is a lot easier when you have phenomenal people who are doing it well because they care makes a big difference.
Lucas Underwood: You know, for years I've watched a lot of owners do this, and it's one of the reasons that I do what I do.
Lucas Underwood: It's the reason that we have the podcast. It's the reason that, that I'm out here at these trade shows trying to talk to people and it's, the reason I answer the Facebook messages and all that stuff is because I've recognized a pattern that I once had in my business. And I see almost every single independent shop owner doing this.
Lucas Underwood: The pan is on the hot eye, there's oil in the hot eye. It is on fire, and the shop owner takes the lid and they put it on the pan and they put the fire out. And they pull the lid back off and the fire starts back. They never empty the pan of the oil. They never turn the eye off. They just constantly fight to put that fire out, but they never build the system around it that says I'm gonna do something.
Lucas Underwood: So I get a different result. And so much of what you've taught me is very much about getting a different result, seeing things differently. And, you know, as I've kind of moved into this retirement concept, in other words, not that I'm gonna retire. But after we really had some in-depth talks, I'm sitting here saying, Hey, now wait just a minute.
Lucas Underwood: I thought my business was gonna be my retirement, but maybe I need to have some other safeguards in place. And so I start playing with the market a little bit. You know, I've got my 401k through the shop and I started looking at the numbers and I thought, now wait a minute if Wall Street values that business like that.
Lucas Underwood: And the PEG and the PE ratio and all this other stuff is over here. And I apply those metrics to my business and I say, wait a minute, everybody says, I wouldn't buy that business for that. Yep. Wait
Michael Smith: a minute now. Hang on brother. Here's the scary stat. If you ask the private equity industry, there was a little gap there.
Michael Smith: We froze. If you ask the private equity industry how, what percentage of privately owned businesses after they look at them, they'd like to buy. The number is 10 to 15%, so let that sink in, right? If there's a hundred folks listening in here, a thousand, right? 10 to 15%, somebody who's a real professional investor will come and consider paying you money for all the rest.
Michael Smith: To this because we haven't run it with an owner or with an investor value perspective. We'll have nothing to sell at the end, but assets or, and here's how our industry's gone. This is history. As we turn around and sell it to a key employee, who can I be honest, frankly, doesn't know any better, how little value they're buying for the price they pay.
Michael Smith: And that's been our industry's history and what you and I have talked about, this does not have to be, if owners understand you and I talked about this. Day one, I meet somebody, I start asking questions, what's your exit strategy? Why are you in this business? What's the legacy that you wanna leave when you're done?
Michael Smith: 'cause if they can't answer those questions, it's time to stop and think about those answers. And when you have that futuring kind of a model in your head, then you go back and say, well, what are you holding in your hand right now? And whatever the gap difference is between what you got and where you're gonna go.
Michael Smith: The job between now and then is to close it and grow it and enrich it and get it ready for that final set of transactions. And so people will say to me, Lucas, it's like, look, I'm 30. How can I have an exit strategy at 65? I can't see that far. And I say, I know. Think, pretend you can start now headed in a wise direction, and then this thing will stay alive for.
Michael Smith: 35 years, you'll change it 15 times between now and then. But don't wait until you're 64 and ask the question, what do I do now? And brother, our industry is rich with people who've been, or they're now, they're in their sixties. They're sitting on it. They haven't thought about this stuff ever.
Michael Smith: Now they're getting tired and they're like, maybe I should be retiring. And now it's not too late. To start, but it's a whole lot better. The sooner you start, the better off you can be. Over time, you can build in a direction and build something much stronger if you do that, which will get you better outcomes.
Michael Smith: Right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, absolutely. And you know what I'm seeing though and here's the issue is they get very nervous. They get very upset when you talk about exit strategy. I don't wanna sell my shop, I don't wanna retire. I care about my guys, I care about their best interest. Okay. That's the point.
Lucas Underwood: It's because if you care about them, you have to build an organization that can stand on its own. Yep. That if something happens to you, they're taken care of. Right. Right. And we don't like to talk about that. We don't like to talk about what could happen. And you know, I've shared this before that, that when I started the shop, oh, I'm gonna be the technician.
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna be the guy working on the cars. 10 years in, I realized, hey, I'm not the best guy to be working on the car. You got it. I've got people that are way better than me. They're way more efficient. I need to be running the business. So I became the service advisor, so now I'm the service advisor in the shop.
Lucas Underwood: And after a while I'm like, this is great. I'm a wonderful service advisor. I make everyone happy. The only problem is I don't have any money because I gave it all away. And I'm like, okay, so maybe we need to do something different with this because this is not working. And then, okay, well I'll manage.
Lucas Underwood: Right? I'll be the manager and I'll, you know, I tell people all the time, well, how can you steer the ship from the engine room? You can't really see where you're going. So you kind of have to have like a perspective where you can see things. I'll be the manager. We put 10 bays in the shop and I'm like, holy Carol, this is a lot of work.
Lucas Underwood: Like, I'm gonna do a lot to keep up with this. I dunno that I have the capacity here. I need to hire a manager. Yeah. And so it, it's like it's a wake up call that as I've gone through this process and then the business is developed and the business has got more profitable and can do what it's supposed to do.
Lucas Underwood: Yep. That, that my role has to develop. Yes. Right. And where I was 10 years ago is not where I'm at today. And it's so important that we think about where we're going. Right. Because I, I worry that there's so many of these guys. They were just excited about having a business. They were just excited about getting the business off the ground.
Lucas Underwood: Well, I hate to tell you this, but you're planning your exit strategy from the day you start. Yes.
Michael Smith: And you know. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, you're planning your exit strategy from day one because if you think you're not doing it, you are doing it. People joke around about this, right? And it's a joke until I say this, everybody has an exit strategy.
Michael Smith: Like, well, I don't. I go, yeah, you do. If you don't declare one, your death is your exit strategy. Yeah. And then they get real serious, and I'm not being mean, it's, they think about it and they go, oh, I guess if I don't set one, I still have one. It's like, yes, you do. The day you become disabled and can't do it the day that you are so tired, you have a mental breakdown the day that you, right.
Michael Smith: I mean, there is an end to this and so the point of it is. Why wait till the end and not be building something intentionally. And you're right, you're absolutely right. It can be very difficult to do the thinking early 'cause we don't live here, we don't live in exit strategy, legacy zone most of the time.
Michael Smith: And for some folks be straight up about it. People who didn't have. A strong upbringing as a child where it was safe to dream and look forward? Yes. If you're in any kind of an environment where there was pressure on you to either perform or be quiet, not cause trouble, you know, you grow up and buy a business and you bring all of that, I'm gonna say baggage with you, but you bring the perspectives with you and you jump in as a business owner and you start as an operator.
Michael Smith: Now you're an owner operator, and your mindset is, I'm gonna operate this thing the way I always thought it should be done. And that has. Sometimes very little to do with the investor perspective. I got two business models. Lucas, you've seen them? Yeah. We teach them on the leadership intensive. One is an investor's view of a company.
Michael Smith: The other one is an operator's view of a company. They align with each other, but they are not the same model, and you can be a fantastic operator and not be building value in your company. And that's what I don't, that's what we want people to know, both, right? You and I talk a lot. Our mission is to get this word out and get it into as many people's hands as we can so they can think about it.
Michael Smith: And I'm gonna say this about being intimidated by all this, whatever. I'll say this and I'll turn it back to you. I talk about three languages, that if we're gonna do this right and succeed in this industry, we're gonna need to speak. One of them is automotive repair. And I'm gonna say probably every single person on this listening to this is.
Michael Smith: Fluent in automotive repair. Congratulations. I say this. That's the hardest language of the three. Yeah. The next language to be a top player in your market, which is what you want to be as an influencer and have the most sway, is what does it take to run a high performance championship team? Guys, that is not psychology.
Michael Smith: It's not just winning, it's how humans work. But I'll tell you, that's an. Easier language to learn than automotive repair. And the third language that you need if you're gonna play this game as an investor, is you gotta learn finance and don't run away from the speaker. When I say that, that's easier than high performance championship stuff, which is easier than fixing cars.
Michael Smith: Yeah, so think about that. Can you be trilingual and build generational wealth? That's you and I've talked about this. That's what we're trying to get the message out. Come tick the tires. Test it a little bit. See if this isn't scary 'cause it isn't. 'cause we know how to do all this stuff. Can you learn it?
Michael Smith: You absolutely can. You learn the hardest thing you have to learn already. Now, can we add to that so that we have more leverage, more opportunity, more power, more op? Yeah. Yes, you absolutely can. And that's literally what we're trying to get out, you and me, the message us, right? That's what we're all, you're exactly
Lucas Underwood: right.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And, you know, I'll tell a little bit of a story. I watched a situation unfold right in front of my eyes. I watched an older man with a shop and I talked to him about buying the shop. And I went and I talked to him and I said, Hey, what are you looking to get for the shop? He said, I'm looking to get 1.5 for it.
Lucas Underwood: I said, okay. So p and l. And he, he said, well, I don't really have a p and l, but I'll come up with something. We'll get something put together. And I get the p and l and on this p and l, you know, $60,000 of revenue for the last year. And he says, well, I've been shutting down. I've been, you know, just tinkering.
Lucas Underwood: And I said, okay, so let's look back a little bit. And he said, well, you know, now I took a bunch of cash payments and I did this, and I did that. I, you know, I didn't really need that much income to survive. And I said, right, but if I'm valuing your business. You want to sell it for $1.5 million. That's not how it works.
Lucas Underwood: And he said, well, Lucas, nobody ever taught me that. Right? Nobody ever showed me that. Right? Well, well here we are in an age, in a generation when every bit of information you could ever want is directly in front of you. You don't even have to pay to get much stuff, right? Most of this stuff is very easily accessible and you can start making some steps.
Lucas Underwood: The key
Michael Smith: Is you have to know what steps. Yes. And curating the vast universe of information yourself to get it down to say, okay, of all the things I could look at regarding income statement, balance sheet, cash flow statements, I need to know that stuff as an investor to understand my own business.
Michael Smith: Let me go dig in. And you get about a half through, you know, the first two pages of a, of an accounting class, and you're like, oh my God, I don't have. The brain power or the energy right now to do this. I'll do it later. And then guess what? It never gets done. Yeah. And so part of what we're doing is we cur, we're curating outta the universe of noise, the stuff that we know actually works.
Michael Smith: It's part of you and I've talked my background. I grew up in the big consulting firms. I was the. I worked with the Fortune 100, the Fortune 500. We did strategy, we did business development. We did organizational growth. We did all that stuff. I stopped doing that because I fell in love with small and mid-sized businesses, right?
Michael Smith: Us on the street working hard. The million dollar projects are very interesting, but at some point you've done them already and it's like, you know where the real action is. It's out in the real world, in communities where small businesses are operating. And I spent time in the private equity world with a holding company going all over the world, buying stuff, trying to improve stuff, learning how that works.
Michael Smith: And I bought a bunch of small businesses and sold them in different things just to get all this grounding so that now we can sit here and say, Hey, you know what? Here's my point. The models for all this stuff exist, and it's not theoretical. It's actual, it's practical. We know what a high performance culture is.
Michael Smith: You can build one proactively yourself. You just have to know what it is. We know how to help you build value in your business. You just have to know how to do it. Then you gotta go home and do it. You have to do it alone. No, there's podcasts like this, the Institute, I've got groups. We're here to help you do it along the way, but there's nothing we're talking about that is untried, unproven, unknown.
Michael Smith: The only people who don't know it are the people who need it the most. Absolutely. And that's the encouragement I have. Please don't be intimidated by this step into the middle of it and say, okay, I admit I don't know what you're doing. T show me what you're doing. Yeah. Intrigued me. Draw me into it. Show me something interesting that I think might belong.
Michael Smith: For me. Right. And then when they get into it I kid you not, they're like, this isn't as hard as I thought it would be. It's like I told you on the podcast, the hardest language is the one you already speak. It's easier exactly after as you get this thing going, and then it becomes iterative, right?
Michael Smith: Then you get momentum going. You can get better people. The better people perform better. There's more cash in the bank. Now you have more that you can invest. Don't take the money out. Invest it internally. What do you put it into? The stuff that builds high performance culture, the stuff that builds value.
Michael Smith: Now you get better people on the door, you're drawing better customers and it's like it takes on its own life. And it's a hurricane that goes from category one to two to three only. It's a happy hurricane, right? It's a money hurricane and a production and success hurricane all of a sudden, and I'll come back to what you said, 'cause I don't wanna let it go by.
Michael Smith: You wanna be the person who knows the least. About all the individual drop inside your company if you do this right? And what I mean by that is there's always a better talent in every seat working for you than you.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. That's if you're the smartest person in the room, we got problems, baby. That's the things are not looking
Michael Smith: good.
Michael Smith: That's the thing. And your job at that point is to make sure that all those super smart, super talented, highly productive. Awesome people have what they need to work together and get this thing, keep their thing going, and they'll come up with better ideas than you can have. And you've gotta get out of the way and facilitate it and let 'em go and let 'em go.
Michael Smith: And this thing will take off. And when people do this, after they go through these processes we're talking about, and it starts to take off, they're like, Michael, I'm having the best months I've ever had from a revenue standpoint, Michael, my nets are off the chart. Michael, that toxic guy in the corner that nobody could get along with is making volunteer ideas in a meeting.
Michael Smith: What the hell is happening here? Right. And it's like. It's because it takes on, the people are wired. To be happy and to have health and to be satisfied and to work that together.
Lucas Underwood: I've asked that in my reels over and over again. Yeah. I make these videos and I post them a couple days a week. Right.
Lucas Underwood: And it's, listen, you're upset with your employees. Don't you think that they want to make you happy? Don't you think that they showed up and wanted to do a good job today? Yep. Like, and you keep saying something. You keep saying the word. Culture. Right. And I'm gonna tell you, for the longest time I thought it was just hoppy cock, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like, I just thought it was noise and I, you know, oh, that's just, that's a spin, a buzzword, whatever you wanna call it. But the reality that I've learned is. You have a culture and it can be a good one or it can be a bad one, but you have one, right? You do. It's just like, and if you're not protecting it and molding it
Michael Smith: and developing it, yep, you will have a bad one.
Michael Smith: It's just like the exit strategy question. You may not think you have one, but you have one. Yeah, the culture question's the same thing. Cul, and I'll do this real quick so people can kind of get the perspective. You start a company, pretend, right? Let's say you started from scratch. A lot of you bought a business, but start, you've got a culture fish tank full of clear water because it's what you think it should be.
Michael Smith: Then you hire your first employee. They have a whole bunch of little droppers of blue dye, right? Yep. They show up every day with their culture perspective and put a drop in your tank and a drop in your tank. Now, the second person comes, they have a red dropper, and then there's a yellow dropper and a green one.
Michael Smith: Over time. Colors mixed to brown, right? Eventually they go to black. The point of that is your culture without attending to it. Just by letting people be who they are in many times, semi or fully dysfunctional ways, and not fixing that, not bringing it back to the ideal Clearwater, you know, goal that you have.
Michael Smith: You'll end up with a messy tank. And so what you're saying, you got a tank, it just may not be a very good one. Right. Can you look through it and see the other side? Sure. Nope. Well, here's the good news, right? How do you fix brown water? You start pouring in. Fresh water and you keep pouring it in and you keep pouring it in and it dilutes and you can, pretty soon, you can't tell there was ever any color in here.
Michael Smith: And that's the process. And again, it's about like that you don't just go, Hey Lucas, are you ready? 1, 2, 3, flip. And the culture is there. It's like everything's rosy and beautiful and clear water. It takes time because you have to identify what you're building. By the way, we know what the components are.
Michael Smith: You have to figure out where you're bleeding, what color is your water, so we know what to fix first. Then you gotta put the processes in place to do it. Then you begin operating. It's a lot like social media. All you owners out there that are listening, that do social media, they're like, look, you can't do social media and get immediate impact.
Michael Smith: It's like a aircraft carrier. You shove the. The throttle forward and those big screws start, it goes slow faster. The good news is you can take your hand off the throttle and it keeps going until it brings itself down. Culture's exactly the same way. So you do the right things and it still looks like brown water and it feels harder, but all of a sudden it's like, do not give up.
Michael Smith: Do not give up, keep going. And one event at a time clears itself, one event at a time, and pretty soon everybody can see through the water and they're going, I like this. Better than it was before. It's like, keep going. Don't stop. And all of a sudden, now think now just think this, and again, I'll turn it back to you.
Michael Smith: Now you've got a clear water tank and here comes an outside person you're recruiting who comes in with a little black vial of drops, right? In recruiting process, you see that your people know what they're looking for. Now, do you hire them? And let them come in and start dropping it in your clear. No you don't.
Michael Smith: You go, okay, let me see your vial. They go, what are you talking about? Pull out your drops. And they put 'em down. Clear water. Ha. Let's talk. I've got clients brother that have multi shops, like 20 and 30 shops. Yeah. And they are main job at the CEO level. The general manager, COO level operator level is to make sure the culture.
Michael Smith: The context, purpose, and character fit is in place with new people. That's the first interview is with the CEO. If they don't pass the context and culture screens, they don't even get interviewed about whether they can fix a car or sell repairs. They don't even get talked to.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. 'cause those are the minor things, right?
Lucas Underwood: We always look at 'em like they're the big things, but they're the minor things.
Michael Smith: That's exactly right. And it's like, are there people who can fix cars? All kinds of them. Do we want all of 'em working for us? Not if you have a clear fish tank, we don't. We want the people who understand the value of that clarity and the power in it.
Michael Smith: And when they do. Then, now here's the thing, can you bring kids up through the process from Apprentice and you know, GS and all that on? Absolutely. And what you want is to have a system so strong with the people who are leading and at the top of the game that when you bring the kids in, you interview them for the potential to bring clear water, and then you move them into a system that doesn't put up with red, green, or blue dots.
Michael Smith: You just don't put up with it. Exactly. And the point is you either purge it out or they go. And you hire somebody who brings the Clearwater potential or the drops in, and then you've got a culture that is high performance and then you win. Yeah. Brother, the key
Lucas Underwood: about the high performance culture, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. Like the key behind it is something that I just experienced recently, right? Like I fell in love with this concept when we went to leadership intensive and what, you know, we've got leadership intensive coming up at my shop. Yes, we do. And what I want everybody to hear is me say.
Lucas Underwood: When I talk about leadership intensive, this isn't like Michael formed all of these concepts. I mean, this is the science of leadership and the big ones that I, that stand out to me, right? I've had these really neat experiences over the past year. Yep. And you don't really know how strong you are until you have to go through something really tough.
Lucas Underwood: Sure. And so I've been through some tough things over the past year and one of them was taking over a business that was devoid of culture. Right. It was a toxic culture. Yep. And stepping into that business, the thing that I could see the red warning sign on the wall that was flashing.
Lucas Underwood: Meltdown. Meltdown. Right. Like, what was it? Well, it was that we had told people. That we were gonna do something. And we didn't do it. And you didn't do it. Right. Right. Leadership is trust earned through repeated behavior. Absolutely. Right? Absolutely. And going on a journey. So it can't be about me.
Lucas Underwood: You know, the Tim Kite video that I love so much, he talks about big ego and strong ego, and he said, strong ego is not bad. Big ego is about you. Strong ego is about them. That's called servant leadership. That's right. We have a responsibility to our people. Right. And see the automotive space has this concept about culture.
Lucas Underwood: That it's, well, the culture is either them winning or me winning. No, absolutely not. The culture is do what's right for human beings. Yes. And when you do what's right for human beings, they'll do what's right for you. Lemme
Michael Smith: this. Exactly. No. Let me broaden this. It's an abundance versus a scarcity model, right?
Michael Smith: Yes. It's a philosophic model about what the world looks like, and the reality of it is, and I'm gonna just tell you straight up, and people can say, what the hell are they talking about? If this is, we live in an abundant universe. If you do the right thing, you can generate win wins. All the way around and make all the money you'll ever need, have all the influence you'd ever want.
Michael Smith: And in fact, the people who can take this as far as they can, you have a handful of people who play the mean game all the way to the top, and eventually they fall. If you do this right and you live in a world of abundance and you lift people up and you do the right thing by customers and you don't shortcut the corners and you don't lie to your parts companies, all the stuff that we know how to cut corners and do, by the way, our industries.
Michael Smith: Pretty known for that out there in the world. Yeah. And so it causes our customers to walk in the front door kind of like this. They're not sure on go, they can trust us. Right. The whole idea that if we live in abundance instead of scarcity, there are don't have to be losers. Everybody can win. All of a sudden you start winning more.
Michael Smith: And people come to you and the people who believe that come and they bring more with them and they give you more for free because it goes along with the joy they're having, being a, and I'm not blowing smoke at you, Lucas. The high performance companies are loyal at the employee level like you've never seen before.
Michael Smith: Team members do not, you know, they look up and they go, you know, with all the foibles around here, 'cause nothing's. Perfect. I can't imagine a place that I could go that I have the kinds of relationships, the kind of a culture, the kind of opportunity that I have here. And you know what that draws from a customer standpoint.
Michael Smith: The loyal brand ambassadors in your market that also look for that from their provider of services, who can they trust? How come they know they can trust you? 'cause you all trust each other. Yeah, because you do the right and they can see it. And they can see it. They feel it sense when they walk in the front door.
Michael Smith: There's abundance everywhere. So I'm not that. It's a huge baseline concept and a scarcity centric industry, which I hate to say it, that's what it's historically,
Lucas Underwood: right? Absolutely. You're a hundred percent right. And you know, I developed a really unique culture here in the shop. Much of it by accident.
Lucas Underwood: It was that I just. Acted as I believed. Right. And I tried to do what was right for other people. I had this really neat experience, and I know you know a little bit about this, but I had this neat experience where somebody else had come into the culture and was working in the shop and they were in kind of a leadership position.
Lucas Underwood: And the team eventually came to me and said, Hey bud, like this isn't working right. This is antithetical to who we are. Yep. And I remember a time when that wouldn't have happened. Everybody in the shop would've shifted. Right. But instead, what do we do? We take a whiteboard and we go down that whiteboard and we write down like each person's name, and we say, all right, who are three people that inspired you?
Lucas Underwood: Who are three people that drove you and that you look up to? Tell me who those three people are. Okay, now gimme three things about those people that stood out to you. And guess what we did? We compiled all the way down this list, and we came back and said, this is our culture because this is what we believe.
Lucas Underwood: These are the things that are important to us, and we're all fairly in alignment. With the things that were important to us. Yep. This is why it stands out to us. Yep. And so we came back to that, right? We came back to that sheet of paper and they came to me and they said, Hey, I know you're trying to make this work.
Lucas Underwood: Something's not working. Something just doesn't feel right. Let's sit down and talk about this. So as a team, we sat down and we said, this doesn't align here and this doesn't align here. And this doesn't mean that person's bad. Doesn't mean that's a, a unworthy human being or something like that.
Lucas Underwood: It's that the culture saw that it wasn't the fit for this shop. It wasn't the fit for this business. Yep. Now, previously that would've been on my back. I would've been sitting there going, oh man, is this what I should do? Should I do this? Should I not do this? Maybe I'm missing it, maybe I'm that. But when the team as a whole comes to you and says, Hey, this isn't working, and let me show you why.
Lucas Underwood: That is a different world right there.
Michael Smith: See, look, let's talk value for a minute and I wanna build on what you said about collaboration. I wanna pull that out of the stories that you just told are rich in collaboration, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Michael Smith: One of the things that'll cause an owner, an investor owner, to pay the more to you for your shop then they would pay for another, is if they can find.
Michael Smith: Collaboration. The reason being, look, here's the deal, right? How many times in our industry have we said, are you working on your business or in it? Like, I mean, if I hear that one more time, I'll fall asleep, right? But the point of it is like, what does that mean? And a lot of people are like, well, I, how do, I mean, I guess I work on it 'cause I show up and work in it every day.
Michael Smith: I don't know. What are you talking about? Here's a way of looking at it. If you work. You're up to your eyeballs in operations and decision making, there's not much collaboration because you are the answer person and there's a dopamine hit that goes with that, like playing video games. It's like, Woohoo, isn't this fun?
Michael Smith: I get to be the answer person. Yeah, that's great. Except guess what? I can't sell it to anybody else. I can't have a life goes. Well, the thing is, the new owner's gotta replace you with another answer person, and that's expensive. And so the value's not there and you don't get as much for your company. So we just pause there for a second, right?
Michael Smith: How do you break that cycle? You start asking people, gee, instead of answering their question, these are simple things, right? What do you think we should do? Oh, no boss, I came to you. 'cause I don't know the answer. It's like, yeah, I know that and I have ideas, but I wanna start with, what did you do already?
Michael Smith: What are you thinking? What might be an answer? It's like, well, and then here's my point. The first time it's. Awkward as can be. Second time, they kind of know you're gonna do it third time. They're starting to think about the answers before they get there. 'cause they know, you ask them, there is no fourth time.
Michael Smith: Yeah. Because the fourth time they're like, he's gonna make me answer this anyway. Why don't I just go do it by myself? Try or ask Bob in the shade in the bay next to me what he thinks I should do. And then we, and here's the point that's working on your business, not in it. Right. You get everybody doing their jobs as well as they can.
Michael Smith: They become learning beings. They're thinking for themselves. You are not the answer person. You are not the problem solver. You, of course, you have to solve some of the bigger problems, but the reality is you're empowering your people. Again. Win-win. They become stronger professionals. Their confidence level goes up, their self-esteem goes up.
Michael Smith: Then you give them your others' esteem. The team starts to support each other. There's collaborative conversation continuously. One of the marks, there's many marks of a high performance culture. One of them is collaboration affiliation. It's the fact that people work positively and well together for their own and for others in the group success.
Michael Smith: Yeah. So think about your culture as you're listening to this. Do you have a lot of affiliation and collaboration, or not too much at this point? If the answer is, eh, some, or gee, not as much as I'd like. You can build that proactively. You can put that into place intentionally. There's things that you can do.
Michael Smith: Yeah. Right. A humanistic, encouraging culture. How much trash talk do you guys have in your shops? Right? Oh, well that's the culture of the industry. It's like, I don't want to hear that from you. Do you realize every time I sarcastically. Say something negative to you, it goes into your brain. And unless you say to yourself in that moment, I don't accept that it goes into your self-esteem tapes and gets added to the negative list.
Lucas Underwood: Oh, that's so true. That's so true. It's so fun to, and well,
Michael Smith: that's just how we are. We're sarcastic. We tease each other. It's like, you're the dumbest guy I've ever seen. Oh no, you're dumber than me. You know what? Stop that stuff because that's not encouraging. Positive top cultures are encouraging and these are the things we can learn, right?
Michael Smith: And get better at Lucas. Go ahead, brother.
Lucas Underwood: Well, you know it, it's funny because I've been sitting down with part of the team that's coming to leadership intensive at the shop and folks listen, you guys be asking questions, right? Drop some questions in here. I've got some I'm gonna answer here in a minute.
Lucas Underwood: You know, here's one of the things I'll tell you about that is I've been reading through that book. And I had an incident the other day where I was talking to somebody, I was saying something and they got really upset and they got really frustrated really quickly and I thought, okay, how about just stopping right now and seek first to understand before we go any further with this, let the situation calm down a little bit.
Lucas Underwood: Let's understand. And it connected to me a little bit because it's something that I've been through. I remember when I was little. If I grabbed a bag that was too small for the sandwich and I put the sandwich in the Ziploc bag, I'd get fussed at for putting it in the too small of a Ziploc bag.
Lucas Underwood: If I got a bigger Ziploc bag I'd get fussed at for putting it in too big of a Ziploc bag, you're wasting a bag. Right, right. Like what I was I couldn't win. And I said to him, I said, Hey, listen, I don't understand why you got so upset. They said, listen, from the time I was very little, I couldn't do anything.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Right. And I constantly, like when somebody says something, I didn't do something right. It's visceral. It comes out before I even realize I've said it. Yeah. Before I've done it. And if we do that to our children. We also do that to our team. Now I pick on my team too, but I also like, we have a very haha laughing, joking team.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Michael Smith: Yeah. But let me say this too though. I know I got, it's in here because every time you say something like that, I know you, you're thinking I probably shouldn't be doing this, but I'm gonna, right. And then next Michael told probably not to
Lucas Underwood: do that.
Michael Smith: I'm gonna do it anyway. Just don't tell him.
Michael Smith: You're on the road, you're almost at the end where you won't do
Lucas Underwood: it
Michael Smith: anymore anyway.
Lucas Underwood: Right. So there you go. That's it. That's it. Well, I'm gonna jump in. I want to answer a couple questions now. These are more automotive questions, so if you want to put your opinion, your 2 cents in here, be my guess. But I'm gonna jump in and answer.
Lucas Underwood: I don't
Michael Smith: answer car repair questions, that's for darn sure. So,
Lucas Underwood: And so the first one is when doing digital vehicle evaluations, do we estimate everything that we find and in my shop, yes, we do. There's some variables to that. There are a lot of cases where shops will not do that. They may only do red, they may only do red and yellow.
Lucas Underwood: They may not do things that are coming up in the future, that kind of thing. For me personally, I do this for a very specific reason. It is a lot of workload on the shop, but my reason for doing this is liability, because if they decline that. That's one thing. If I said, Hey, you need to do this, but I never told 'em how much it was and proposed a potential solution to their problem, then it's not documented anywhere that, that I said, no, I don't wanna do that.
Lucas Underwood: I don't wanna fix that right now. So if there were to be a potential legality issue, a liability, something like a litigation because they got in an accident and their insurance, like they don't really care that you told them about it. Insurance wants to know beyond a shadow of a doubt, you gave them a potential solution.
Lucas Underwood: And you weren't responsible at that point, right? They said no. So that's the reason that I do it in my shop. Quality control process is the other question also from er auto Diesel Tire.
Michael Smith: Lucas, can I interrupt you for one second? Yeah, sure. Go ahead. I wanna add a trust psychology component to what you just said before you do the next one.
Michael Smith: Of course, think about being a customer and you walk into, get some service done and they're. A person across the desk from you says, listen, you came in to do one, what we would call in a DVI red thing, and we have three more red things to show you. And what does that say to them? If they trust you, you're sort of rocking that trust and squeeze a little bit.
Michael Smith: If they don't trust you, they feel like what? They're being upsold. Yeah, so then if you do the reds and the yellows, right? It's like, well, this is stuff that we have to do later. They feel like they're being set up for the next time. When I talk at the leadership intensive about customer component near the end of the program and we talk about it, we talk about building a stewardship relationship with your customer over time, and the stewardship relationship includes the things that are going well.
Michael Smith: The things that are not going well and what do we need to do in the future to be more successful together? Right? We joke around in psychology, it's the poop sandwich. What's going well is the happy bread. There's a little poop in the middle. What's not going well? And then the happy bread on the end is what can we do in the future to make us more successful in the past?
Michael Smith: Yes. When you do all three red, yellow, green and you say to them, look, the green's the good stuff. This is, you know, cars fall apart over time. That's what a car does. You got some great stuff going here. These things we looked at, they're in good shape. That's a good feeling, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yes.
Michael Smith: Then you get into the red and the yellow stuff.
Michael Smith: It's like, here's the red, now here's what the red issues are. You've moved into the, what's the scary little bit of a, you know, uncomfortable part. In the middle of the conversation, the end of the conversation comes back to the list of the reds and yellows and the greens. And saying, look, here's what I, we recommend we do.
Michael Smith: Let's do the red stuff. Now let's keep an eye on the yellow stuff so when you come in next time. Exactly. Nothing's gonna sneak by all of us and make you unsafe or have something catastrophic happen and the green stuff, we're gonna keep watching that and it starts to turn yellow. We're gonna do our best to keep as much green as we can.
Michael Smith: That's the FU in positive conversation. So you're doing that when you present all three? Yes. With the full psychology of. Positive and positive out the ugly, costly stuff they don't wanna deal with is in the middle, but it's sandwiched relationally. And the last thing is because they've got the list of all three layers, they can see that you're being full disclosure with them.
Michael Smith: Yes. And they have more trust doing something moves from yellow to red, that you're tracking it and it finally has moved. It's not just this red surprise or the price that goes with it. That's a. Hit on their credit card. They didn't want to have based on where they're going on the weekend or some such thing.
Michael Smith: So, but I just wanted to add this psychology to it. All three of those. I love it. Very powerful system.
Lucas Underwood: I absolutely love it. And that's what I believe as a automotive service industry that we need to be doing. We need to be advocates, right? We need to be there as service to them and be an advocate.
Lucas Underwood: We, we call them service advisors. What does that mean? You're giving advice, you're advising. Right. And I think that's something that we often miss. And again, I, that's my thing with just doing reds. That's my thing with just doing what they came in for. I'm not providing them a full picture. I'm not being their advocate.
Lucas Underwood: Now if you make that about a sales process, right, that they'll pick up that you made that about a sales process. And I catch flag. People are like, oh, of course you do that for sales. No I really don't. I. I am just a little bit of a softed soft-hearted guy, and I don't like it when people fuss at me.
Lucas Underwood: So I like to be able to say, I understand you're really frustrated, but I did tell you about it right here. You know what I mean? Like, I like that. It makes me feel better. I like people to like me. I can't help myself. There's also a question about the quality control process. And in our shop, what we do is we're a little bit extensive about quality control, but we build a model.
Lucas Underwood: This designed around a very unique client experience, right? We are extreme hospitality, unrealistic, or unreasonable hospitality is what we offer in my shop. And so they get cookies when they pick up and they get, you know, the warranty card and all the information, and we pick 'em up and we deliver 'em the whole nine yards, vacuum and clean the car.
Lucas Underwood: Our quality control process is 10 miles by a quality control technician. They drive it. They go out, they check the fluids, they make sure everything looks good. They visually inspect the work the technician did, and then they take it on a 10 mile test drive. They bring it back. If the weather's nice, they wash it.
Lucas Underwood: The weather's not nice. They just go right into the bay. They vacuum. The front passenger compartment out. They put the cookies in, they wipe everything down. They recheck the wheel toque the whole nine yards. Now a smaller shop, that's gonna be very difficult because that's such a large piece of your gross revenue going to a porter that's doing that type of work.
Lucas Underwood: And so in some cases it might be that you have a technician who does some type of quality control process and it's never the same person rechecking that job, right? Somebody else needs to drive it. When we first started this process, I was quality control. So they would do the work, I would take the car and drive it.
Lucas Underwood: They hated that. They thought that was absolutely terrible. They just thought that I was a bit of a perfectionist. I don't know what to say to that. Like of course I want the cars. Perfect. Right? They were built perfect when they came out. Why can't they be, don't look at me like that Michael. Let's see here.
Lucas Underwood: I wanna answer these last little questions 'cause we're running low on time here. We keep getting calls for alignments from people that either do the work themselves or had another garage do the work, but we don't have an alignment machine. We've taken a couple and they've been a lot of work, very little money.
Lucas Underwood: We're thinking about not taking them at all. Thoughts on this or a different way to handle these situations. If you don't have an aligner and you don't have someone locally that you can sublet with that, that sets it up. I probably just would not take those jobs on. If I am not the one providing that service and all they want in alignment, I'm gonna recommend the shop down the street.
Lucas Underwood: If I'm doing work on the car, I will sublet that alignment out. I'll handle all of it in-house so I can ensure it's right. I can ensure the steering wheel straight and that we got all the bolts tightened back and that they're marked and we know that it's driving like it's supposed to. So we don't have an issue.
Lucas Underwood: I can check the alignment sheet just to make sure the numbers are actually right on it. And so that would be in-house. If it is anything else, I am absolutely sending it out. If another shop's doing the work. Probably not. I'm probably gonna say, Hey, I'm really sorry. We're just really busy right now.
Lucas Underwood: 'cause it turns into a mess. It turns into a mess every single time. Probably better off, 'cause I mean, you're not really gonna see any gross profit per hour if. From that. So it's a, it's kind of a loss leader. And then the last one, before Michael and I jump back into the conversation here how do you feel about loss leader specials, oil changes, alignments, tires?
Lucas Underwood: We can't charge enough to make good gp but we do use them to generate more sales repairs. I know that is a method that's been used for this, the industry for years and years. I don't believe in operating that way. I do run specials from time to time, but they're the same price that they would normally be in my shop.
Lucas Underwood: They're not loss leaders. And really my reasoning behind that is, is because I want to serve the client who wants to buy what I sell. And if it takes those discounts to bring them in the door, I have found, for me personally, they're not really a good fit for us, but we also curated a very unique experience for our guest, and that is just kind of part of that discovery conversation.
Lucas Underwood: Part of that barrier of entry into the shop is that we don't want the wrong people into the shop. That's not saying people who are looking for a cheap oil change or bad people or anything like that. It just doesn't fit my model. Now, I will say this says that we can't charge enough to make a good gp.
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna tell you something, and Michael you tell me from your perspective what you think about this. I think as long as our industry is focused on competing on price alone, it's in trouble. Because I know folks that work in the corporate office at a massive national tire chain, and I know what they pay for the same tire that I buy.
Lucas Underwood: I asked them to look up a Continental the other day. The number is unbelievable. They can be making 60% if I'm selling that tire at 10%. And so if we're trying to compete on price alone, and that's what's gonna drive people into our shops. Long term, I don't believe that's sustainable because they can lower their price and still make 30% gross profit.
Lucas Underwood: I'm still over. I can't lower my price anymore. Somebody will always beat me on price. Michael, how do we handle that?
Michael Smith: No. I'll throw the, I'll add to this in, well, in business school we, in microeconomics, we studied this very question, and the question is, do you compete on value or do you compete on price?
Michael Smith: And you know when the professor stands up and says, the teacher says, what do y'all think? You know, half the classes we have to compete on price. 'cause price too high. People aren't gonna come. The professor leans forward and says, you realize only one. A company in a given market can be the winner. Yep. In the low price game.
Michael Smith: And the low price winner also has the lowest margins in town too. And everybody sits back in their chair and goes, oh yeah. The best way to do this is to have a value proposition that draws a customer that will pay more because of the value proposition and get away from competing on price. Now, if you carry that into this loss leader question, then you know, when we do the high performance.
Michael Smith: Customer stuff at the end of the leadership intensive, and we do it in our high performance group, we talk about LTV, the lifetime value of a loyal brand ambassador customer. And so what Lucas was talking about was, Hey, look, let's be differentiated in building a customer base that's. Days and grows in trust and brings us more, and we charge them the right price, but we give them the best value for that price that they can find anywhere.
Michael Smith: And guess what? Now you're not working on lost leader stuff to get new bodies walking in the door. And you know why? Because loyal brand ambassadors, that's what they do. They're your ambassador. They bring people like them who are value oriented and refer them into your shop, and you'll become less dependent on churning new clients into your system than you will holding on to the top performing clients that you have.
Michael Smith: So this question will fade over time. And the real message, I wanna join you in Lucas. Don't play the low price game. That's a losers game. Absolutely first
Lucas Underwood: game. A hundred percent. And you know, one, one of the first epiphanies I had in, in this aspect, I'll never forget it was a really eye-opening experience where a STA second year I've ever been, I encouraged a lot of people to come and I had a vehicle full of people and I said, Hey guys, tell you what, I'll buy dinner.
Lucas Underwood: So look, somebody just picked somewhere to eat. Nobody would pick. So I just turned my phone over, said restaurants and said Somebody tap the screen. They tapped the screen. Now, at the time I was old country boy, right? I'd never been anywhere. Nice. And they picked Ruth Chris. And so I roll up in this place.
Lucas Underwood: One guy's arguing about having to take his hat off. Here I am with these big greasy technicians. We're going into this super nice restaurant and we're sitting down and we're eating. And the guys waiting on our table and he said, oh, you guys are car guys. Oh, I love this and I love this. And he starts talking about Corvettes.
Lucas Underwood: And they said, how do you know, how do you know about that car? That a Z oh six, that's a really nice car and pro charged and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he said, oh yeah, that's mine out there in the parking lot. And the guys all turned around and looked at him and said, do what? You're a waiter.
Lucas Underwood: He said, yeah. He said, I cleared $140,000 waiting tables in this place. I said, there's enough people willing to spend that on food. That a 20% tip gave you $140,000 last year. He said, this place is packed seven days a week. He said, you make as much money as you want. If you wanna work every single night, you can work every single night.
Lucas Underwood: You make as much money as you want. And I said but like they, they'll come in here and spend this all the time. He said, yeah, we've got regulars that come in here every Friday night. He said, just because you see money as this, you know, you don't have any of it. And so you think, oh my gosh, that's really expensive.
Lucas Underwood: He said, these other people, they don't see it like that. They just look at it and say, yeah, it's a meal, it's dinner. It's not that big of a deal. And that woke me up to the fact that my perspective in a lot of ways was holding me back because I had in my head what value was. I'd never seen it through anybody else's eyes.
Michael Smith: Yep. I'm gonna throw this out there. It tied to our conversation, we talk about value propositions. You have to have a better value proposition. When I started in this industry, I was in front of 70 owners in a room and I didn't know the industry yet. And I said, okay, that, let's talk about unique. Value propositions.
Michael Smith: They said, who's got a unique one and somebody put their hand up. I have a 36,036 month warranty. Okay. I wrote it on a whiteboard. Anybody got a better one? I got a 48. Right? We went through this whole thing. How many people in the room have one of those and they put on some form of a warranty, like everybody in the room put their hand up.
Michael Smith: I took my pen and I drew a line through it. Said, what's another one? We went all the way down the list with this, right? And what I wanna say to the listeners is this, you're not losers if you play the industry traditional game. I said, it's a loser's game. It doesn't mean you're a loser, it means it's a losing game.
Michael Smith: Right? What is your unique value proposition? Amen. I don't know. And it's like I'm two miles away from the next guy and all the people in my neighborhood come to me and I have a warranty from my parts company. And you know, and it's like, okay, so if we standardize everything, we're all doing exactly the same way.
Michael Smith: Yep. So what's unique about you? And then people's faces kind of go blank, right? Right. That's a hard question. That answer. That answer is the answer that allows you to play the value proposition game instead of the. The pricing game. Right? A hundred percent. And I will throw out a couple of ideas. If you have a company that stands for something, stay with me.
Michael Smith: Guys more noble than the rest of the industry. Yes. That's unique in our industry. If you have a high performance culture where people on your teams knock themselves out to make sure your customers are thrilled when they walk out the front door in relative terms, that's a unique. Value proposition. Yes.
Michael Smith: The human stuff is unique when you dial it in and get it right, because our industry hasn't done that incredibly well on average.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. So if
Michael Smith: you think uniqueness in terms of my SOPs are tighter than yours, you're on pretty rocky ground at that point. What's a good enough SOP one that works, right?
Michael Smith: So is there any uniqueness in there? You see where I'm going with this, right? Stay away from pricing as a competitive edge and stop and say. Legitimate question. Yeah. What do, or what could we do better than the people that we would consider our local competitors and soak in that for a while. The initial question is, gee, I don't know.
Michael Smith: It's like, good. Then go home and think about it. Let this wake you up at two in the morning. Have a beer on a Friday night thinking about it. Get up and have coffee at five in the morning, whatever your cycle. Thinking is put that back on the table again and go, what can I do? Or what do we do? What can we become that's unique in this marketplace?
Michael Smith: And that's what you take to the market. And that reduces the pricing pressure discussion, right? It's just like now people come to you for that and that's
Lucas Underwood: when owning a business gets fun again.
Michael Smith: Yes, it does. That's when
Lucas Underwood: owning a business gets funnier. Absolutely. Right? 'cause now we have something that we can target.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Because as an owner, when we get, as an owner, when we get to a certain point, it's like, we don't have a target. We don't have a goal. We don't have a, what is it, Jordan Peterson says, human beings are focusing creatures. We don't have a focus. Right. And so that gives us the focus. We had one more question.
Lucas Underwood: I know we're out of time. Michael's gonna kill me both Michaels might kill me. How do we prepare for the future turndown that's being predicted? I'll be honest with you, I think the automotive service industry fares very well in turndowns. Like we might see. But if you really look at the numbers, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yes, credit card debt is really high and delinquencies are high and card debt delinquencies are high. But the reality is the market's actually still pretty strong there. There's some softness in a few areas, but it's unbelievably strong. And those who know the market right now are saying, holy cow, how is this possible?
Lucas Underwood: It's still going up. So I mean, it was up this morning before we got on here. So I think that there are gonna be weaknesses in the market, in areas, and I do believe that the consumer is highly pressured right now. But I think that if you focus on the fact that more consumers are going to be utilizing your services as opposed to replacing automobiles, and you're creating a very solid experience and offering them the tools and resources they need to make this work, I don't think you're gonna slow down.
Lucas Underwood: You might slow down some, but that's in marketing, right? Make sure you're working your marketing, make sure you're calling your clients and checking on them. But there again, Michael. The reality is we gotta make sure the business is profitable. Absolutely. 'cause there's gonna be rainy days no matter.
Lucas Underwood: And the goal is not to say, oh, I can't afford to slow down. The goal is to say, I've got six months of opex in an account. If it slows down, let's just hope it doesn't last more than six months.
Michael Smith: No, that's right. And let me tell you one of the things about this industry. I grew up in the big firms, right?
Michael Smith: 50 60 industry verticals I was a part of. This was the 51st or whatever. This one is known for this. It's not recession proof, which some people will say, but it is recession resistant, meaning that when things go down deep, we go down, but we don't go that deep. So what can you do to be prepared? Make sure you understand, and I'll just give you some ideas, right?
Michael Smith: Make sure that you know what your your variable expenses are. The fixed ones are fixed based on the work that's gonna go down when the work goes down. But the variable expenses, what are you spending that you could maybe bank in the short run until it pops back up again? One, two, go after your customers that you have relationships with and talk to them about stewarding the downturn, say to them.
Michael Smith: What can we do to get through this together? How can we help you? I know shops that do as well in recessions as they do in the high times because they reach out to their customers and say, let's manage the recession together. How can we keep you on the road? What do you need for us to do? And people will bring their credit cards and get work done that they were putting off because they have time to do it now.
Michael Smith: And I'm not blowing smoke at you. This is, it's an amazing conversation we have with people. Go back to the, we're helping you to get as much value out of your vehicle as we can. Let's monitor this in these value tough times and make sure we're beside you. And business can actually go up rather than go down.
Michael Smith: So it, it's an interesting industry that we have. Right? Plus, not to mention the fact that when times are tough, people buy fewer new cars and they tend to hold on to the used ones longer, which is also in our favor. Amen, sir. Our favor. So.
Lucas Underwood: Amen, sir. Well, Michael, thank you for being here. Thanks to all of our wonderful listeners and commenters for being here with us.
Lucas Underwood: They're gonna drop QR codes down at the bottom, and I would like, and I'm sure Michael would like to personally invite you guys, we're gonna hold a couple seats open to those who attend some of our digital stuff to the leadership intensive here at my shop. We're gonna do a lot of. Fun stuff. We might do axe throwing, we might do gym mining.
Lucas Underwood: We might eat ice cream, who knows? But it's gonna be a lot of fun. There is a mechanical bull. Michael's promised he's going to ride it in the cowboy mode.
Michael Smith: On slow. On slow, not cowboy mode. I'm not doing it.
Lucas Underwood: So we want invite you guys and just want to say thank you so much for being here. Thank you for being part of what the institute does and Michael Smith, thank you for being here as well, sir.
Michael Smith: It's my pleasure. My pleasure. 
Lucas Underwood: Yes sir. Be well. All. Have a good day y'all.

150 - Two Bays to Ownership: Alvin Lui’s Import Autowerks Journey

150 - Two Bays to Ownership: Alvin Lui’s Import Autowerks Journey
September 30, 2025 - 00:45:02
 
Show Summary:
Meet Alvin Lui, owner of Import Autowerks in Quincy, MA. He started in dealerships in ’99, opened a two-bay gas-station shop in ’09, scaled to a warehouse, and surprised his team with a new, owned facility two years ago. In this episode, Alvin shares how culture, training, and smart real estate moves shaped his growth, why he’s leaning into BMW/Mercedes with an eye on Tesla/EV, and the hard-won lesson to protect time with family. If you’re an independent shop owner who wants to evolve with technology, build a team that stays, and step into ownership (of your building and your life), this one’s for you.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Alvin Lui, Owner of Import Autowerks
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:13] - Fall colors and family time set the tone as Jimmy and Alvin talk about seasons in life and business.[00:03:02] - Alvin’s origin story, from Lexus oil changes to a BMW culture that knew his name and built confidence.[00:09:39] - Startup phase at a two-bay gas station with a four-person team and 15 cars a day that forged processes.[00:12:16] - Leveling up to a 2,500 sq ft warehouse, installing lifts, welcoming a new baby, and managing a transition.[00:16:27] - Lease risk turns into ownership by purchasing a former Mercedes shop and surprising the team with a blindfold reveal.[00:19:41] - Positioning the brand on BMW and Mercedes while adding Tesla capability to serve younger EV-leaning clients.[00:22:02] - Hydrogen to hybrids, lessons from early experiments and why infrastructure and use case matter more than hype.[00:24:35] - Power plus practicality, the rise of 700 hp plug in hybrids and choosing drivetrains based on lifestyle, not trends.[00:27:34] - Move smart, not just fast, real estate timing, working on the business, and leveraging a 20 Group for playbooks.[00:30:50] - Build a life, not a prison, take at least three weeks off, invest in coaching, and protect family time because you cannot buy time back.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, my friend. It's great to see you today or to be with you today. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute and this is the Leading Edge podcast. We talk about all things in the automotive aftermarket. About shops, the history where they are today, what's the future of where we're going?
Jimmy Lea: What do you see that future being so exciting. Can't wait to dig in deep with my guest today. My guest today is Alvin with Import Autoworks out of Massachusetts. Alvin, great to see you. How are you today, brother? I'm doing very well, Jimmy. Thanks for having me on this podcast. Oh, you're so welcome. And I love Massachusetts.
Jimmy Lea: I'm sure the colors are changing, the trees, the colors, the reds, the orange, the yellows. Are you seeing the same thing I'm seeing here in Utah?
Alvin Lui: Yes, we are getting the full chair. It's leave sign, change color. It is beautiful here in Massachusetts.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Do, have you gone around for any little road trips to look at the colors?
Jimmy Lea: Or is that just wallpaper for you?
Alvin Lui: No, we've been I think this weekend we're playing around with the kids to take up, take a trip, up to a little hiking path to kind of enjoy a little bit of nature, the fall nature.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Two weekends ago, we hit the peak of the fall season here in Northern Utah, and so we went up and drove the canyon.
Jimmy Lea: There were a ton of people out. Ton of people, because they broadcast it, they market it. Hey, this is the peak of the season. Come look at all the colors. So we did. We went the very next weekend, so last Saturday, they closed the freeway for the amount of traffic that was trying to go up the canyon.
Alvin Lui: Wow.
Alvin Lui: That's intense.
Jimmy Lea: That's intense. 
Alvin Lui: That's unheard of.
Jimmy Lea: It was unheard of, man. There were so many cars going up there. They closed it down. Just absolutely amazing. And these mountain roads that we're driving, I mean, they are barely a one and a half lane road and it's tight turns, tight corners. I was like, no, we're going home a different way because that was a little too tight.
Jimmy Lea: I don't wanna be there with everybody else. And it's, this Highway six is one of the most dangerous highways in the state of Utah. So yeah we try to stay off of that one. Anyways, let's get into talking about you, Alvin. Well, I'm so excited to, to talk to you and finally meet you. We've been friends on socials for a very long time.
Jimmy Lea: I see a lot of what you're posting about the Euros that come into your shop. And that's where I wanna start is where did you start? How did you get into this business?
Alvin Lui: I started the business, I started this field working for a dealership. We, I believe that goes back to about 2009, where there was about eight or nine of us working at a small old dealership building working on BMWs.
Alvin Lui: So, I got my foot landed in this business because of my father. So my father was a bartender in the, in a little town of, wakefield, Massachusetts. And what happened is he surrounded his life of a lot of car guys. I never really knew that. And usually he kind of, he would be like hanging out talking to guys that own independent shops, that own dealer shops that work in dealerships.
Alvin Lui: And one of the things how I started was you know, I just, I was young. I had. I had a passion for cars and I really liked it. I went to school for it and one of my first jobs I landed was working at a Lexus dealership, which didn't last very long. So because I kind of got bored of oil changes pretty.
Alvin Lui: So after that, the service manager brought me to BMW working for BMW. It was great. It was a really great culture. There was about eight or nine technicians back then, and what was really great about it was every day the boss would come in, he'll say hi to you, you know, it was really great.
Alvin Lui: He knew your name. Every Christmas we would get a nice package from him, you know, it was awesome. So, so that's how I got into the business. And then about. 10 to 10 to 11 years later I decided to go on my own and I decided to go on my own. And then we started off at a small gas station, two big gas station.
Alvin Lui: So that's where the name came up in, put Auto Works because I like working on the Japanese cars, but then I still kind of had more of a love with the BMWs the German car engineering. I felt that the end a really great product and
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Alvin Lui: What really helps with, I think with the business is the service, the customer service behind it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it totally does.
Alvin Lui: Within, yeah within any product. Doesn't matter what it is. So, that's how I got my footwear in the business. And then after that. We moved the shop, we moved the shop two to three years later down the street. We stayed there for about, we stayed there for another, probably like another 10 years, 10, 11 years.
Alvin Lui: And then right now, two years, two years ago we had an opportunity to move one more time to invest in a property and start our own business with working on. A previous Mercedes-Benz shop, but right now we are currently working on BMWs and Mercedes.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude. There's so much to unpack there with what you've been through to get into the business because here you are in 2009, getting into the automotive industry.
Jimmy Lea: When the world, at that time, I don't maybe you weren't to where the world was shutting down. I was in the real estate business doing mortgages and the world had shut down. I had then opened a business doing yard care, handyman and house cleaning. And it was tough going man. Oh 9, 0 10, oh boy, it was tough.
Jimmy Lea: So you got in the industry and it's unfortunate. So that's the first thing I wanna talk about. I'm fortunate that here you are. Fresh outta school and the only thing they give you are oil changes and you've got more skills than that. So it's to the company culture that you were sequestered to.
Jimmy Lea: Oil changes only unfortunate you didn't leave them because of bad job, bad business, bad work. You love the work you left because of bad management. They weren't using you for what you could have done.
Alvin Lui: Yeah, I think culture was very culture played a very big role in where I worked at the dealership.
Alvin Lui: You know, I really missed the original culture where I originally started with back in 1999. That's when I started the car business. Oh, 99.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, 1999. 
Alvin Lui: I'm sorry. I started the business in 2009.
Alvin Lui: So that was I'm a been in the car business for about 26 years. So I went from 1999, worked at a dealership, and then I moved on my own in 2009. But one of the things that really pushed me to really start what I do was try to be, to build that culture. I think that was extremely important on. Why I wanted to do, why I wanted to do what I I am doing now and continuously 16 years later, I'm still working on it and trying to Yeah.
Alvin Lui: Perfect it. Having the right people in my team.
Jimmy Lea:  Oh, I love it. I love it. I love that you were, had a solid foundation there with the BMW. They built you up. They built you. They said hello. They built the company, they built the culture. You were more confident in your skills and your abilities to relate to others and do the work.
Jimmy Lea: So, ergo, here's your love and passion for BM BMWs.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Alvin Lui: Does that sound about right? And today I still love it. Yeah. I still love it. You know, still a great product. You know, one of the nice things is just to build it, is to build it with a great service. Really take care of people. That's what it's paramount. A business is about.
Jimmy Lea: It's paramount. Absolutely paramount. So when you started your own shop in oh nine and you were in the two bay at the gas station, how long were you there before you expanded or are you still in the gas station?
Alvin Lui: I'm still, I'm not in the gas station anymore. We were in the gas station for about two, I'll say no more than two years.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Two years at the gas station. Okay. And so it, when you went into the gas station, was it just you or did you have employees with you? What did that look like for you? Yes, ma'am.
Alvin Lui: Oh yeah, I, when I started the, when I started the business I didn't go in alone. I had a family friend that went in with me.
Alvin Lui: He's no longer with us, but it was my wife. We had a technician I went to school with, and it was one, two, it was four of us. So my wife would just pick up the phone. She was like, info auto works. All she would is just take a message, say, Hey, this guy called you. Need this done. When can you get it done?
Alvin Lui: I said, sure, just bring it in. We would like load the place up with cars.
Jimmy Lea: My gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
Alvin Lui: So I'm imagining this gas
Jimmy Lea: station with like 15, 20 cars on the side. You've got two bays to get 'em all in and out of. Its a lot of pushing.
Alvin Lui: Yeah. I was young back then. I don't know how, if I were to do it again, I wouldn't know how I would do it.
Alvin Lui: I think back in the days we were. Probably cranking between two guys, maybe about 15 cars a day. Oh yeah. And it was insane. Dude. You were full flying. You were flying, dude. Oh my gosh. And yeah, it was young, full of energy. So it was it was it was a moment we always remembered. So
Jimmy Lea: yes.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. And you remember it fondly. Okay, good. Congrats. That's super awesome. And bless your wife for answering the phones for you and taking the messages. That's so cool. So two years, two and a half years, you're at the gas station. Now you move to a different location. What does that look like?
Alvin Lui: Yeah, so we had an opportunity to move over to a industrial warehouse. It was about. It was about 20, I believe it was about 2000, 2,500 square feet. And what the nice part was, it was a warehouse we could probably fit about. We were able to fit about 30 plus cars.
Jimmy Lea: Inside.
Alvin Lui: Yeah, outside.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, outside. Okay.
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Now, this industrial warehouse outside, did you have to convert the warehouse? Did you have to install lifts in the bays? Did you have to create all that?
Alvin Lui: Yes we did. We had to it was a, it was an old limo business that the guy retired and we were able to take it over and we ended up putting investing lifts in there, putting new lifts.
Alvin Lui: I think during that time, at the same time, my wife was pregnant as well, and our first son was arriving, so we were running, I was running two shops, building it. In the hospital? Yeah. With my son, my first son being born and opening up all at the same time. Oh my gosh.
Jimmy Lea: Talk about multitasking, dude. You were burning the candle from every angle.
Jimmy Lea: Oh and how's, so your son, how old is your son now? He is, I believe he's 14 years old
Alvin Lui: now. He's in high school. He just started high school this year.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. That's wonderful. Okay, so you're, you said you were running two shops. Did you keep the gas station and go into the warehouse at the same time?
Alvin Lui: No, we were running the gas station, so we had one technician at the gas station. Just finishing up all the cars as slowly, we started to progress into the other shop where I was at the hospital on a laptop, dispatching all the work. While the techs were fixing it, and then we just had a secretary up front just kind of closing the bills.
Jimmy Lea: Sure.
Alvin Lui: It was a big blur. Big, it was a very big blur. So, yeah, it was a very, it was a very memorable and also a very
Jimmy Lea: intense moment for me. Oh, big time. And let's talk about this limo business. Did you take over the limo business or did you shut that down?
Alvin Lui: No I the limo business was another entity.
Alvin Lui: They did, they left. They okay. We, they used to be there. Yeah. And then we just took over the, we took over the shop that they were in,
Jimmy Lea: and they didn't have any lifts or no scissor lifts or anything like that. They probably maintained their own vehicles in house. I'm guessing that's why they had a warehouse.
Jimmy Lea: Is it, is that right? Or? What were they doing?
Alvin Lui: Yeah. The limo business, all they had was flow jacks. That's how they were, that's how that guy, that poor guy used to work on his cars.
Jimmy Lea: Oh my
Alvin Lui: God. So it was all flow jacks. He had like nothing. It was that and a little craftsman compressor, so,
Jimmy Lea: oh my word.
Alvin Lui: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: So, okay. So he moves out. You move in 22,000, 2,500 square feet. How many lifts were you able to get inside of this warehouse space?
Alvin Lui: We had, we have about three lifts. We had about three lifts in there, and also like one, kind of like a standup bay, just kind of a blank bay. Yep. And then we, yeah, so we had also like a upstairs level that kind of, the warehouse had very high ceilings, so it happened, and it just had stairs that go up to like a
Jimmy Lea: mezzanine, think it was
Alvin Lui: like over three, three or 400 square feet office.
Alvin Lui: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. So, so now at this time, how many techs, how many. Service advisors who's working on the vehicles what does that makeup look like?
Alvin Lui: Back then we had, back then we had about four technicians. We had four technicians and two, two service advisors. I was part of that service advisor.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Alvin Lui: So, yeah. And then we had the tech for about. Most of the techs are still with us. We have, we had those techs for about at least five to six years. Nice. So most of the techs did stay with us.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. And is that where you still are today or did you move on from the warehouse?
Alvin Lui: We moved out of warehouse two years ago back in June of 2023.
Alvin Lui: The warehouse that we were work were at was up for sale and they wouldn't renew the lease. And thanks to my wife, she's probably gonna listen to this. She was on the laptop looking for real estate and then what happened is, the place we're at now, the guy that used to service Mercedes-Benz, he decide to retire.
Alvin Lui: And we approached him, sir, would you like to sell this property to us? And he said, yes. And then that's where everything just pretty much came together all at the same time. And we were able, we were very fortunate to be able to purchase this property. And one of the, and then that was two years ago, and.
Alvin Lui: We never told the employees about this. They knew that this, they knew that
Jimmy Lea: the warehouse was going away. The warehouse,
Alvin Lui: They knew the warehouse. They were trying to sell the place, but they didn't know what was going on. So, but in the background, me and my wife was searching for property, and then one day I sat down with the employees.
Alvin Lui: Hey you guys, I got something to tell you guys, right? You guys. You guys gotta be, you guys have to, I got surprised for you guys, but you guys have to meet up. So one day we took two cars and I said, but the thing is, I need to blindfold you. Yeah. All right. Because you guys can't tell anybody. So I took the whole crew, we blindfolded them and we drove across town.
Alvin Lui: 15 minutes, I think we almost got arrested. Everybody was looking. Everybody was looking at us. Everybody was looking at us because they looked like a kidnap pipe. There was two, right? Two cars, yeah, two cars back to back with adults blindfolded. Oh my gosh. Adults blindfolded.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You're looking like the mobs taking some blindfolded people out to give them some cement boots.
Alvin Lui: Yeah, it was it was all pretty. It was pretty exciting. And then and what we did, we sat them down and then we just took 'em open, had to open up, and I said, Hey guys, this is your new home. Surprise. They were shocked.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I bet they were so excited. I bet they were. So yeah,
Alvin Lui: they were, they was.
Alvin Lui: Yeah. So that's how we ended up here. The shop here right now is about close to four square feet. Not as much parking space, but it's a very, it's a very nice upscale, upscale shop. And what we do now is BMWs Mercedes. And because we're in the town of Quincy, Massachusetts now we are starting to tackle a bit of the Tesla markets Nice.
Alvin Lui: Of the future of auto automobile business because this world is turning gasoline and ev. So, and this is the future of the car business and I think it is one of the things I really like is to keep up with technology as an independent shop, to not fall behind and to always stay up to date with technology nowadays because this is where we are, especially with.
Alvin Lui: Of the younger clientele that we have. Yep. That's, I believe that's some of the direction we are moving forward with the automotive business.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So how you stay on top of that, Alvin, how do you stay on top of the new technology that's coming out, the new information? What do you do?
Alvin Lui: I, because obviously you know that we're like a PAC client.
Alvin Lui: I definitely stay on top of a lot of training. And a lot of stuff, especially being part of the institute we see the changes that go on monthly, every day. I read up a lot of I read up, I like to read up a lot of articles on how BMWs changing things. Mercedes changing things. And what's the difference between a plugin hybrid?
Alvin Lui: What's the difference between now with these newer generation cars and it's so many, there's so many alternative fields out there right now. It's, I mean, not all of 'em are here to stay, but a, I think a big majority of the key players like Toyota is gonna be staying. BMW is definitely gonna be staying.
Alvin Lui: Tesla, obviously they have their own little market share with the robo taxis. You know, it's, there's so much going on and we have, as a shop, we need to evolve into this kind of, we need to evolve into this, you know, we need to be there for our customers.
Jimmy Lea: Totally. I totally agree. I totally agree. So, with alternative fuels, where do you see things going?
Jimmy Lea: Do you see a future in hydrogen?
Alvin Lui: The hydrogen. That's a little tricky one because as long as there's the infrastructure. When I was training at BMW back in the early two thousands, they did introduce the hydrogen car. Yeah. They did talk about it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alvin Lui: And I believe that hydrogen car traveled around the world.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, drove all the way around the world.
Alvin Lui: Yeah. It's been tested. It's been around for, I mean, hydrogen has been around for. A long time. You know, I built a hydrogen car myself too, when I was back at the dealership.
Jimmy Lea: Dude, you're such a nerd. Yeah.
Alvin Lui: That is awesome. Yeah. Such a nerd.
Alvin Lui: Yeah, but I just wasn't ever stable, so,
Jimmy Lea: but nothing like driving a little hydrogen bomb around everywhere. What are you thinking, man?
Alvin Lui: Yeah, it was a very cool experiment. It was a really cool experiment. I think I built the, I built a little Toyota that did like 50, about 50 plus miles per gallon,
Jimmy Lea: you know?
Jimmy Lea: Whoa.
Alvin Lui: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's pretty cool. That is very cool. So you got 50 miles to the gallon on fuel or on the hydrogen, both. Right, because you need the gas to get it up to temperature, then you can turn on the hydrogen. Correct.
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Alvin Lui: You need to, like, you need to tone down, you need to tone down the fuel trim, add the hydrogen.
Alvin Lui: It was some like crazy mess. There's a lot of trial and error with that. But yeah, I mean, if I think the future of cars, definitely there's gonna be many alternatives. Gasoline is definitely, I feel like gasoline is definitely gonna stay. Electric cars are definitely here to hang out.
Alvin Lui: It really depends on. I think it really depends on how customers drive the preference. Yes. If you're a city driver, electric cars are great.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love the Tesla for the city. I love love, love it for the city. Anything less than 200 miles. I am. I am in. I'll go. It's easy. Over 200 miles. Forget it.
Jimmy Lea: You gotta charge three, four times.
Alvin Lui: Yeah. Yeah. We have customers who say, oh, try go electric car. I was like, well, you know what? It really depends on your lifestyle. If you're a soccer mom running around with kids driving an electric car, yeah. That's not gonna happen. You know, it's, I think absolute is good for you.
Alvin Lui: We just talked about, we just talked about an hour ago with a service advisor talking about these newer cars with with electric motors. With these 700 horsepower cars out there that's coming out now, and the service lines, how'd it come out like that? And I say, well, you know what, now the Germans got it, man.
Alvin Lui: They got it. They take the VA motor, now they add the electric motor, and now you put a 75 mile range. Now you got like a 700 horsepower monster. And it's still, and you could drive it all around. So it's a little bit of gasoline, electric, you know, combined. And it's great.
Jimmy Lea: Wow. Wow. They're selling race cars out of the dealerships now with 700 horsepower.
Jimmy Lea: Holy cow.
Alvin Lui: Oh yeah. It's what people want. Everybody wants a fast car nowadays, and then they also have to be like, good on gas too.
Jimmy Lea: Dude, this is like, it's like the resurrection of the late sixties, early seventies when the muscle cars became popular. It is like a resurgence of those times.
Jimmy Lea: That's pretty cool.
Alvin Lui: Yes, it is. It's it's very interesting technology. It's definitely a lot to learn about right now, nowadays. There's so much changes. I think this is definitely the year to kind of see what's gonna happen.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alvin Lui: The automotive market itself, I mean, it's, there's a lot of good things coming up.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, sure. Lot and
Alvin Lui: more choices of,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Sure is that's exciting. Hey, now Alvin you've moved a few times now I'm counting that you were at the dealership Lexus and then BBMW. You were at the gas station, you were at the warehouse and you're at your current location. What advice would you give to people about making the choice to move?
Jimmy Lea: When do you say, okay, now is the time
Alvin Lui: when it's the time. It's about planning out. It's about real estate. It really, I guess it really depends where you are. I mean, it's really about, to me I feel like it's really learning about how to really work on the business, rather in the business. I'm kind of in the 50 50 stage now, but you know, you have to have, you have to have a lot of.
Alvin Lui: Like learning experience with this. You know, many shop owners are different. They, every shop owner goes through many challenges in their lives. I myself went through many challenges as well. The advice is definitely a lot of training, you know, especially joining a, my, my biggest advice is join a 2020 club.
Alvin Lui: That's why I would definitely. Say it's the best advice because there's a lot you can pick up on these things. You can, there's a lot of stuff you can learn from your peers, and you get to talk to people that owns property and say, Hey how did you know, how did you ever like get, how did you ever acquire property like that?
Alvin Lui: You know, it's insane amount of money, you know. You know, and they'll tell you their experiences. You get to learn, you know, like one of 'em, when I first joined the institute especially you know, I met some guy Jim, which I'm sure you know Jim. Oh, yeah, Jim. Oh, in New York?
Alvin Lui: Yeah. Island. So, you know, he expands the thing. He has opportunity. He had a great opportunity. Yes. He said, well, you know what, we just got a nice loan out there and I was able to acquire a property and many years after, this is how it is. So, and he owns it. Those are the one of the first members I met and really great guy and this, and also there's a lot of great shop owners out there.
Alvin Lui: So I would say one of my biggest advice is as a shop owner definitely invest and.
Jimmy Lea: Training. Yeah, you, not just technical training because that's what you're talking about, not just technical training. You need management training and communication skills and ownership skills and how to run a business, how to be a good leader.
Jimmy Lea: There's a lot of different training that can go in for what you're talking about.
Alvin Lui: Correct. There's a lot of pieces to that pie that you, you won't know until you kind of. Dive, get their feet wet, dive in there and experience.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, so true.
Alvin Lui: Just, yes. You know, just some people will say, oh yeah, it's too expensive.
Alvin Lui: It's not worth my time. But when you able to make that time, when you're able to, you know, dial in certain numbers when you're able to do certain things and you, you get to fall upon a lot of these things and. I've met many shop owners that been in the business for 20 years. It's like, Hey, I can't, I get a week's vacation.
Alvin Lui: I was like, yes, you can. You know? He's like, I'm always in the shop. I was like, no, you don't have to be in the shop. You just have to, you know, you have to just kind of step out a little bit and, you know, just try to invest in some of the training and you'll start seeing some of these advantages.
Jimmy Lea: Certainly is.
Jimmy Lea: And with the institute, what group are you with? With the institute? I am with Group six. Group six with Jennifer. Oh, nice. And big shout out to Jennifer. She does a phenomenal job in facilitating group.
Alvin Lui: Yeah, she does. She holds it accountable.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Only
Alvin Lui: very accountable for a lot of things.
Jimmy Lea: So how many weeks per year do you feel like a shop owner should take a week off and go vacation and get away from the biz?
Alvin Lui: How many weeks per year? Oh, at least three weeks.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alvin Lui: Yep. At least that's you have to, you, you built this business not to be, you built this business not to be always there.
Alvin Lui: You built this business to take care of your family.
Jimmy Lea: Exactly. You built
Alvin Lui: this business, make fine for your family.
Jimmy Lea: Yep.
Alvin Lui: Yep. So, and it's extremely. That what we are doing has a purpose.
Jimmy Lea: It does. It does that. It does.
Alvin Lui: Yes. It's the, one of the main purposes in life is to have a really great balance.
Alvin Lui: Yep. And especially also to lead, you know, I always push my, even with my employee, I push on, Hey, you guys gotta take a vacation, man. You know, car's always gonna be here, but you know, your kids are gonna grow. Don't miss opportunity.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Yeah. Oh, I totally agree. Totally agree there. There's so much opportunity.
Jimmy Lea: There's so much that can be done. And I love your idea of three weeks a year, you, as an owner should be taking your family and go do a vacation. You started the business to work in the business. And the balance, I, I say that there's seasons because when you started Alvin, you had to go crazy fast.
Jimmy Lea: You had to really put your pedal to the metal and. Put it all out. You had to do that because that's what prepared you for where you are today. Somebody who is starting today could not step into the position you are immediately. They need time, they need training. They need time in the saddle. They need time to be able to develop their own process procedures to have a successful business.
Jimmy Lea: And so this is where you are able to give advice for those new owners to say. Definitely do this and definitely get into a group with training accountability as quickly as possible.
Alvin Lui: Yes, definitely. There's definitely no doubt about it. Even like, I think, I believe I've been with the group for about five years now, and when I first met, I remember when I first met the big man Cecil.
Alvin Lui: He is like, what was that book? I just have it on a tip of my tongue. How business run automatic, automated by themselves, you know? And I was like, yeah, I think I got this. I know what, I know everything. I know it, I know how to run it. You know, I can just like maybe read books. Maybe I can just like watch videos on how to do it.
Alvin Lui: But no, I didn't have it. I definitely didn't have it. As I, as time grew by and as I, you know, just like every business owner, you know, run into roadblocks. You know, like these groups, they help you out. Say, Hey, this is what happens when this happens. You know, what should I do? You know how to prevent certain things from happening so you don't kill yourself in a business.
Alvin Lui: And I've seen many small shops they just they just run themselves to death. And I don't wanna do that. That's not the purpose. That's.
Jimmy Lea: Nice.
Alvin Lui: You know, we're, yeah, we're in 2025 now. You know, we have all the tools, we have all the training, we have the, you know, we have Zoom calls with you.
Alvin Lui: You know, we can just connect across the world. We can, you know, there's so many million things.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Million
Alvin Lui: things that can, and just, you know, push us light speed ahead of everybody. I love it. You know, we have to take advantage of it.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Oh, I totally agree. And you know, I feel like we learned more from our failures than we learned from our successes.
Jimmy Lea: Have you had any sort of a failure that turned into a very strong learning point for you?
Alvin Lui: Have I had any failures that I learned from us? Yeah. Try not to work so much. Yeah. You know? Yeah. You know, just, you know, just one of the things is
Alvin Lui: As I grew up, you know, my father was always working. I never got to see my father much. I mean, I'm pretty sure it was very normal during those days. And, you know, all he did was, you know, just work and provide, you know, but that, that, that failure led to, you know, my father getting, you know, my father had Parkinson's because of that, because he just kept working.
Alvin Lui: All he cared about it was just providing for the family. So that is something I learned. That is something I learned from, you know, my father left, you know, he is about 66 when he passed away. That was a big change in my life. Those are one of my biggest things I saw that I did not want to repeat.
Alvin Lui: So that's why I constantly do, try to continue to do what I do. Constantly try to improve on what we try to do here. Yeah. Not only myself, I also try to teach, try to pass this on to make sure my staff does the same. They see the positive side of this.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. That's beautiful. It sounds to me like you, you learned how to spell the word love.
Jimmy Lea: LOVE. You spell it? TIME. And if you could give anything you would have, give anything to have a few more minutes with dad. You would love to have that time with dad. And Dad taught you some very valuable lessons. One is hard work, provide for the family, but also dad, let's balance this with time.
Jimmy Lea: We want you, we need you, we need some time together.
Alvin Lui: That's right. You can't buy time. So that's one of the, one of the things my wife always reminds me, Hey, you know, it's time to go home, you know, we'll fix it. Figure it out tomorrow. Guess what? We can't buy time. So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. I
Alvin Lui: didn't
Jimmy Lea: come home because it'll still be here tomorrow.
Jimmy Lea: We still can attack this tomorrow, but right now it's time to go home.
Alvin Lui: Correct. So, so in the business, we just have to work smarter. You know, we have all the technology now to work on these cars, you know, and you know, we just, we still continue to do what we do. Good job. Provide for our customers, provide for our employees, provide for our family.
Alvin Lui: You know, that's what it's all about.
Jimmy Lea: So true. Thanks for sharing with me about your dad by pops. Yeah, that's cool. I appreciate that. Yeah. My, my dad taught us how to work hard as well. There was a summer that I shoveled two and a half tons of asphalt in about two and a half days.
Jimmy Lea: Teaches you hard work. This is an industry that's really hard work. Yeah. Yeah. That was really hard work. We were resurfacing an entire gas station, a circle K, putting down the asphalt for the, over the tanks. My dad was a general contractor specializing in fuel systems, so he would build almost all the gas stations in Las Vegas.
Jimmy Lea: My dad probably built
Alvin Lui: Oh, wow.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. 28 years. He was in that business and we as kids, we grew up in it. That was. Well, we did. Yeah. We learned the value of hard labor and which is one of the reasons I love this automotive industry so much, is because this is an industry that knows how to work hard.
Jimmy Lea: They know how
Alvin Lui: yes we do.
Jimmy Lea: They know how to put down the head, put down your head and go to work. You got stuff that needs to be done. We gotta do it. This is what needs to be done. Let's go. I have yet to see anybody in this automotive industry ever throw up their hands and say, Nope, it's just too hard. I can't do it.
Jimmy Lea: Yes you can, especially Alvin with what you're talking about, getting into a 20 group, getting into a group of like-minded shop owners where we can share ideas and come up with the best result because we as shop owners, when we work together. We get the best results. You may have a mountain, you're facing a mountainous problem, a huge problem.
Jimmy Lea: You bring it to the group and the group says, oh, Alvin, dude we solved that last month. Here's the solution. Here's what my shop did. Here's what my shop did. Here's what my shop did. Now you've got three different solutions to this mountainous problem that you think you have. And very quickly that mountain becomes a mole hill and you step right over it and you just keep on trucking.
Alvin Lui: Yes, that, that's definitely spot on, Jeremy. You know, I think like a lot of shop owners do run this and stuff like this and it's all about learning. It's about taking time to learn about it. I mean, even with cars, you know, we run definitely the car business is it's extremely difficult. It is very high technology, but difficult and it's constantly changing.
Alvin Lui: It's only changing and it's only difficult is because you don't understand it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Alvin Lui: Just like aliens. I just, that's what I tell people. It's just like aliens, you don't understand it. You're not gonna, you're not, you'll never will. You have to learn about it. This is how at least eng the engineers with all these European cars.
Alvin Lui: They say, Hey, this is how we built it. This is why we built it. And that's it. And once you take the time to learn it, like anything in life or. It processes, it's, it becomes easier and that mountain, you know, becomes a little small mojo. You just walk right over it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it, man.
Jimmy Lea: Alright, I have a question for you. Final question. I, if you were to start your business today and you were your 21-year-old self again, and you were starting your business today, what advice would you give yourself today in starting your business?
Alvin Lui: Oh, I, a lot of advice. I'll be smacking myself many times on this one.
Jimmy Lea: Don't do this then don't do this, then don't do this and don't do that. I know you won't, but no, that's not what you want do. Okay?
Alvin Lui: One of advice is learn to make time. Definitely learn to make time. Make that time. I put it into high priority and coaching, coaching classes.
Alvin Lui: Definitely learn from the experts and become an expert yourself because you know that's one of the definite advice I would give myself, you know. We time goes by just really fast for everybody.
Jimmy Lea: It
Alvin Lui: does. And just like myself, I've been in this business for about 16 years and I've seen I've seen many outside struggles.
Alvin Lui: I have my struggles myself. Definitely biggest thing is I would say education. Doesn't matter what it is, education. I've always loved it. I'm very I really like the education with the cars. I love the technology. I would, if I was going back again first thing I would do, I would probably start the business classes.
Alvin Lui: That's why I would definitely start,
Jimmy Lea: you start the what? The business classes?
Alvin Lui:  Like the bus, like business classes, like coaching classes. I think that's the first thing. I would start first because I wouldn't make. So many of those common shop owner mistakes. That's what the first thing, that's the thing I would not do.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, Alan, that's beautiful, man. Yeah. 'cause there are easy mistakes that we're making all the time and there's other shop owners that have been there, done that they can help guide you through it. So get a coach. Get on the right path. That's right. Oh, that's beautiful. Alvin, appreciate you, brother.
Jimmy Lea: Appreciate your experience, your knowledge, your the path that you have traveled, the knowledge you have gained, the time that you make as a priority now for your family, for now and forever in the future. That's one thing I try to do as well, is anytime a kid's got a game, a concert a proposal, a presentation at school, talent show, whatever it might be, you be there, be present.
Alvin Lui: That's right. And it's really important because, you know, that's where all the memories are. Yeah. And by you can't memory. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's beautiful. That's beautiful. Alvin, thank you so much brother. Appreciate you joining me today on the Leading Edge podcast. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute, and if you've got a few more minutes, head on over to we are the institute.com.
Jimmy Lea: We'd love to work with you. We'd love to lock arms with you to make sure that you don't get left behind. So if you're like Alvin and you are looking for that season and you're looking for that time to be able to spend with your family, come work with the institute, we're gonna help you build a better life, a better business, and a better industry.
Jimmy Lea: 'cause together we can do this. Thank you, Alvin. Appreciate you brother. Thank you very much. Shimmy. Thanks for.
 

149 - Designing a Self-Managing Shop and a Life You Actually Want, with Tracy Cotton

149 - Designing a Self-Managing Shop and a Life You Actually Want, with Tracy Cotton
September 18, 2025 - 00:43:56
 
Show Summary:
This episode features Tracy Cotton of Santa Cruz to talk mountain biking, mentorship, and building a self-managing Japanese-specialty shop. Tracy shares how a bankrupt dealership-adjacent shop turned into his business overnight, why he narrowed to core Asian makes, and how interviewing classic Toyota owners protects culture and margins. He digs into team structure, bonuses, and the autonomy that lets him step away for days without a call. The two unpack coaching that “hurts your feelings but tells the truth,” the BAR surprise visit his team handled flawlessly, and Tracy’s next chapter: rekindling passion, potentially selling to his leadership duo, and maybe coaching. They close with a big wish for the industry: unite independents under one strong voice and defend the right to repair.
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Tracy Cotten, Owner of Mick's Automotive 
 
Show Highlights:
[00:02:10] - Toyota T-TEN grad to shop owner after a sudden bankruptcy, buying the business for about $23K nearly three decades ago.[00:08:39] - From “we worked on everything” to a focused Asian lineup, and why Kia and Hyundai no longer fit his model.[00:11:22] - The interview policy for classic Toyotas, with a paid maintenance inspection required to ensure commitment and protect culture.[00:13:15] - Saying no to “PSS” cars keeps morale high, procedures consistent, and the brand promise intact.[00:14:24] - Six lifts in roughly 3,900 sq ft, landlocked in Santa Cruz, and zero interest in a second location by design.[00:20:45] - Delegation rhythm that grows a 21-year-old from apprentice to full tech while the foreman orchestrates workload.[00:21:35] - BAR shows up while Tracy is away, the team handles everything, corrects the ask, and documents the win.[00:28:50] - Team bonuses versus individual drive, attempts to nudge a steady 30–35 hour tech higher, and the tradeoffs of roster changes.[00:37:15] - A wish for one unified voice for independents, better technician economics, and a strong right to repair.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hey friends, good to see you. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence, and this is the Leading Edge podcast. Super excited to have you here with us today, and my guest today is Tracy Cotton. Tracy, how the heck are you, brother?
Tracy Cotton: Doing awesome. Doing awesome. Another beautiful day here in Paradise.
Jimmy Lea: It is. It is a great day, isn't it? Now you, we were just talking. You love mountain biking. I am a road biker, so I have my Marin. That I go for long rides on the bike. Me and Dave Cusa hook up every once in a while, go riding you and tsu. Did you guys go mountain biking here for a minute?
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, so he came up for the A SCC meetings.
We rode around here in Santa Cruz and then took off to Truckee and after the meetings, Truckee and Mammoth and went mountain biking and yeah, it was all good. All good time to get some sweat out. Pound the pedals so I don't pound other things, you know? Yeah. It was all good.
Jimmy Lea: Well, good. And how was the meetings?
How was the association?
Tracy Cotton: Good. I've got friends that have been trying to get me into it. I've kind of gotten out of going to training, meetings, groups and everything. Last two years. 'cause I've been in 'em since day one. Day one. And I just needed to step back and, you know, with my own thoughts.
They was good. It's good. It's, I'm thinking of joining it, you know, California needs more support, you know, so highly likely. I will.
Jimmy Lea: Well that's wonderful. You know, and it's great that you've been such an avid. Advocate for the industry and the association for so many years. I know it's not just been a few, it's been a lot.
And it's okay to take a minute to take a knee and say, Hey man, I gotta catch my breath. I need to take a break. Yeah. And do that. And as you come back in, realize where are those boundaries? When is it become too much? When, and you know, these things. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That's good. Well, Tracy, how did you get started, speaking of being in the A-S-C-C-A for so long, but in the automotive industry?
How did you get started in the automotive industry?
Tracy Cotton: Well I actually went to school to become a mechanical, what I call technician, which is, goes out in the field and builds what the engineers build, has engineering, you know, got engaged, dropped outta school because that didn't work. That fell through.
And had to get going something. And I'd been, I've never had a job out of the automotive field, gas stations, tire shops. I was a wholesaler to Napa for a while and said, Hey, I gotta do something with my life. And went to school. I actually got a grant or by the Toyota was one of the first Toyota T 10 graduates, way back when, you know.
Took off running with that. Moved to Santa Cruz and after the dealers, one of the guys that I bought my shop from was working at the dealer 'cause he did what a lot of people did was jump in headfirst into a shop, not knowing what to do and, yep. I he was a parts soul set. He was the parts manager, so he was going around to the dealers to help them.
Found me, stole me from the dealer. And then a year, just over a year later, he declared bankruptcy. Yeah. So terrible. Yeah, I was taken off on vacation. He called me two days later 'cause I was, it, I was managing, working on it and every, not, I wouldn't call managing it. I was running the day to day things and he's like, no, we're shutting it out.
I'm like, what? He's like, no, we're shutting it down now. Not while you're gone on vacation. So. Three days later I didn't go on vacation and me and my girlfriend stayed and three or four days later I basically bought the shop from the wholesale. This is, you know, and, you know, took off on vacation anyways 'cause I figured I wouldn't have time.
And, a week later I was running a shop, so, yeah. Oh, so you bought the shop you were working in? Yeah, well he declared bankruptcy and yeah, so we bought, you know, wrote everything out, wrote him a check. For the, what the, to satisfy the bankruptcy courts. And then wrote his mom a check for the business, so the bankruptcy court wouldn't take it.
And basically I got a established business for 2220 $3,000. But now, this was 28 years ago.
Jimmy Lea: Well, so translated maybe today it's $300,000, but still it's one heck of a deal.
Tracy Cotton: For the people that are looking to run a second or third shop to get an established shop, then yeah, this was, he established, you know, I knew the numbers.
Called my dad up and said, Hey dad, I'm, I've got this opportunity. I just bought a house. I go, I don't need the money, I just need the confidence. If I do need the money, I can come to you to borrow money. You know? And he said, yes. He goes, well, you gotta gimme. Gimme some type of outline. I, you know, back then put it on Word, sent it to him.
He is like, okay, take off. You know, and I took off running, you know, so, and then I started with. Business mentors from day one.
Jimmy Lea: Who were your mentors who helped you?
Tracy Cotton: Well, at first some guy that I fired because he just didn't understand things. And a guy named Mike Sers, which I believe passed away.
Yeah, he was in and stuff. And then I joined the World PAC groups. Right. Yeah. One meeting before Cecil took over. Oh. And I'd actually gone to a meeting with Cecil, one of the classes early on. And, you know, he was, you know, and then actually I think Cecil took over on the first class that's been 15 ish years ago.
So, yeah. And joined the world Pac business groups when it was way back way, way back when, you know. Yeah. And yeah. Took off running.
Jimmy Lea: So what did you think of Cecil's? Classes in the the World Pack group, the smart groups. I've heard mixed reviews, so I just wanna preempt that. You can say whatever you want.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. It got me where I am now, you know? Yeah. Congrats. I mean, Cecil's and no holds bar puts it out how it plainly, whether you like it or not. Yeah. But if I'm running a business and I need, and there's something going wrong and I'm not seeing it, I need to know that. So I don't know. I don't want to say I don't care how it's put, but I want it put, I don't want somebody holding back or anything because that's not what a coach is for, you know?
Yeah. So, yeah. He hurt my feelings multiple times, but you know,
Jimmy Lea: but you're stronger for it, right? Yeah. Is what I'm hearing.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. You know, at that stage, if you're running a business and you can't get your feelings hurt, then you Yeah. And it wasn't, it's not that. And it's, other coaches have done it too.
It's not, he didn't go out to hurt my feelings. Yeah. He put it plainly and my feelings were hurt because it was the truth, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, it wouldn't be, you know, like I said, if it wasn't for Cecil, and I don't wanna brag on him because I know this is, you know, through the institute. If it wasn't for him, I wouldn't be where I am now.
You know? My business wouldn't be where it is now. Now I had to listen to him and I had to do the work. Yes. But he gave me, made it easier, you know? Nice. To give me the information, you know, so, yeah,
Jimmy Lea: dude, that's extraordinary. And when you're just starting out, you don't know what you don't know.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Right. You know what you know. You know, there's things you don't know, and then there's things you don't know that you don't know. Yeah. And it's where a good coach is gonna be able to come in and help you navigate all that red tape.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. And get you to do the pri, the priorities, you know? Yeah. Not just get the low hanging fruit, but some of the harder fruit, you know?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. That's so good, dude. Oh man. I'm excited that you were able to work with Cecil and get things started. Yeah. Yeah. That's really good. And so when you started, what was the footprint of the shop? What did it look like?
Tracy Cotton: Well, it was, the guy was a do it all because he didn't know he came, the guy, the, he was the parts, whole parts and service wholesaler, a Toyota dealer.
And he did it all. I came in, he pulled me. I knew Toyotas, I was a Toyota Master Tech. I never. I'd worked at the gas stations and stuff like that, but I'd always just, I was a lube tech type thing. Yeah. If you wanna call it back then. Yeah. And so I worked on most everything, but as I got busier, I just made it Japanese and I just started cutting cars off, you know?
I worked on, you know, the Europeans here and there 'cause I could get it done when I wasn't so busy. Dropped them for just doing more Japanese, got my marketing going. I worked on American cars and then when I got busy enough I dropped them and then got busy enough. I dropped Mitsubishi, got busy enough, dropped a Suzu, you know, and you know, so now we just work on the main Asian cars.
And Kias. And Hyundais, and I think we're busy enough now that I'm probably gonna drop Kias and Hyundais. Just 'cause those customers, they're unique. When they have a unique problem they suck a lot of time and those customers don't want to pay. To get it repaired so we're, you know,
Jimmy Lea: properly, they don't want to pay to get it prepared, repaired properly.
Yeah. There you go. Looking there it's a totally different mindset. I totally agree with you. Yeah. My wife has a Lexus. What does it need? Okay, good. Let's get it done. Yeah. It, this vehicle is darn near in pristine condition. Yep. And it's about three years old and it's almost got 75,000 miles on it, so.
We drive it a lot, we take care of it a lot and it's in really good condition. So it's a different mindset. I totally agree with you in dropping Kia and Hyundai. Hyundai, yeah. It's different client, different mindset, different customer. Yeah. So you work on mostly Toyota, Honda.
Tracy Cotton: Lexus, Subaru, Nissan, Infiniti, you know, Nissan in, yeah, no.
And then we're really 2005 and newer. And then you know, their Toyotas and Hondas will do 2000 and newer, and then anything older than that they have to, if it's a Toyota truck, you know, Tacoma Land Cruiser, we actually have the customer come in. And either me or my manager interview 'em before we'll work on it.
So we make a date. What? Yeah, we make an appointment. They come in, they know they're gonna be interviewed. And we interview them to make sure, well, the Tacomas and Forerunners and Old Land Cruisers, we wanna make sure that they're gonna invest it in the car. And if they're not worthy vest to come down to an interview, then you know, then you're not, we.
Yep, you're right. Get it outta here onto the next. And then we explained to 'em very nicely, we're gonna be expensive. But you know, we're gonna get it done right? We're gonna get your car inspected, you know, we're gonna get it done. You know, if it's diagnosis, they're gonna pay for a maintenance inspection upfront.
Yes. Yet we're not doing anything without doing a maintenance inspection. We're not gonna give 'em the free courtesy inspection and then whatever else they want. And doing it that way on these classic Japanese cars that we still work on, the tacos, the pickups, you know, you know, we get some very good customers out of it, you know, you know, and then, you know, take it from there.
They
Jimmy Lea: appreciate are you saying that they appreciate the interview?
Tracy Cotton: Most of them that wanna invest in the car, yes. But the customer that we don't want doesn't, and so, you know, two thirds of the people come down, make an appointment. Yeah. You know, the others don't appreciate it or whatever, and go somewhere else.
And that's fine. And that's
Jimmy Lea: okay, sister, brother. That's fine.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You've probably got your favorite Toyota shop that you wanna refer 'em to and you just send 'em on down the road?
Tracy Cotton: No, I send 'em down the road. The guy, the other Toyota guy in town I like. Oh okay. Yeah. And then my technicians appreciate it too.
'cause we're not being bringing PSS in. I mean, they still get by, but you know, it's not eaten every, my service writer, my service manager. Yeah. Don't get all upset because we're bringing these cars in that everybody's wasting their time energy on. Yeah. And not getting payback on, you know? Yeah. And it's not that.
It's the bonuses. They all get bonused on it. They want to help the customer, but when a customer comes in and they don't want our style, help you do that too much. And then the, it's harder to keep your people following. The procedures and the more following the company culture. You bring in a bunch of PSS in and your company cultures.
We do the best. We stand behind the best, we are the best, you know, type thing. And you're bringing all these PSS in and you're not doing anything to 'em. What do you think your people are gonna do? They're gonna believe in that company culture.
Jimmy Lea: Not anymore. No. Goodness sakes. No, you're hitting it right on the head.
Yeah.
Tracy Cotton: So.
Jimmy Lea: So with with your shop, have you grown? Did you move? Are you in the same location?
Tracy Cotton: I've been going to the same location for 29 and a half years. So, I worked for the guy for a year and a half before, it's 28 years. No, my building, the owner who passed away a couple years ago, him and his wife that went to this.
Son and daughter. I'm good friends with the son. He's a couple years older than me. Then it's gonna go to the grandkids, the wishes. There was no hopes of me buying that property. Okay. Santa Cruz in California, it's hard. Santa Cruz would be one of the hardest places to put automotive. I've had chances of buying properties three to five years to get it re permitted if it will get re permitted for automotive.
So I put my investments other places. Good for you.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Yeah. If you can't buy your property, there's other things you can invest in. And the business, you can just run the business. Run the business. That's a beautiful thing. Well, congratulations. Have you expanded the business at all?
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. 'cause when we moved in there, there was three lifts, 4,000 square foot. It was me, then it became me and. The guy that was working for the shop before it went, he, it changed over and then he left. And my shop foreman, who I've known for since the sixth grade has been with me, I've now gotta start looking and figuring out a 25th year.
Winning or not anniversary. He's been with me for 25 years. We've known each other for since the sixth grade. So that slowly, yeah. Yeah. I know. Can't get rid of them if I wanted to and I don't want to. So, and then slowly got another tech, put another lift in, you know, worked it that way. You know, I was doing everything about.
12 years ago a little longer than that, I hired somebody just to answer the phones. And then my manager, it's going on 15 years blue hired him to do those things and now he manages the shop and we've got now three techs, a shop porter service writer, bloom the service manager, and he writes about a third of the, a third a little bit, maybe about a third of the service. 'cause my service writer is, he's slow, but he's awesome. So he can't quite get it all done, but he does everything that Blue can still manage the shop, you know, and, I go in and kind of do what I want. If there's a classic car that comes in, I'll still work on it that I like.
There's some old Toyotas, believe it or not, there's some tricks to 'em that I still know. And then if we get way busy, I mean, you know, I, they've sold too much and we don't wanna reschedule people, then I'll get out there and. Get things caught up and work here or there to get things caught up when we just get so backlogged, you know?
You know, so, right. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Well, so how many lifts do you have now?
Tracy Cotton: You start
Jimmy Lea: six. Six, we
Tracy Cotton: got six and a 3,900 square foot shop. One of 'em a scissor lift, but it's one of those full height scissor lifts. They've been out for a while. It's awesome. But yeah, it's a unique situation. When my parking and everything, when you pull into all the way to the back of the shop, you gotta back the car.
There's one way to get in all six lifts. You gotta pull back all the way out past all the parking and then out, you know, and it is what it is, you know? So it works. I've looked at moving other places, but, your landlocked.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You, I mean for you to move would be buying a second location or something like that, because the properties are grandfathered and if you don't get a grandfathered station,
Tracy Cotton: yeah,
Jimmy Lea: you're not gonna get it.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. And for me, a second, shop's never. It hasn't been on the field for a long time. It's not what I want to do.
Jimmy Lea: No attraction
Tracy Cotton: for you?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Tracy Cotton: No. Nope. Everybody's, Hey Tracy, you should do it. Should do it. Nah, I've got some buddies that done it. It's just not what I want to do. Okay? 80% of the time I enjoy what I do.
And then the other times I gotta, right now I'm having to learn to find that passion again. And I'm working on it, you know, 28 years I'm working on it, you know, it's, you got, I'm having to, you know, go out there and figure it out, you know.
Jimmy Lea: Well, good for you. Yeah. That's good. So, what is a problem?
Well, let's see, let's go back into leadership. Talk about leadership and management. You've been running the shop for 28 years. You've got some great teams in place. What type of mentoring, coaching, training did you provide for your shop foreman? Service manager. What did you do for them?
Tracy Cotton: The shop foreman, not much.
He could use some more training, but I've never just seen. Any training for shop foreman out there. He gets his technical training and he's pretty good at delegating work. 'cause we hand out the schedule the day before he gets it, you know, the schedule three quarters of the way through the afternoon and he goes and sees what works left over what needs to do.
We've got an awesome, I've got the unicorn. 21-year-old. Tech. He's not an apprentice anymore. He was an apprentice when he got with us about a year and a half ago, but I'd call him a full tech now. You know, he gives him that work and stuff like that, you know, okay, hey, here's the diagnosis, and he, then he lets me know if there's a diagnosis and he's too busy to help guide him along.
Wow. And then I'll go out there and, you know, so that's what he does. Blue is been to multiple seminars, classes. He did the through the institute. He was in the manager's course or whatever it was called. I forget the term, what it was called.
Jimmy Lea: Is it the MPG? The manager Performance group.
Yeah. There you
Tracy Cotton: go. There you go. He was in that for a while. And then we had some things around the, for him personally that we pulled out and stuff. Yeah. So, and then with the crew we've got now it's, I mean, my other tech's been with me close to 10 years. You know, it's the shop pretty much self-manages itself.
As we were talking before this, I was gone for a week. I just got back. Today was my first day since last Wednesday, and I left at about noon. I did not hear from my shop at all. At all. All that's so awesome, dude. That is so awesome. And then I forgot my dog that goes to work with me. My wife works Tuesdays and Thursdays, so we can't leave her at home.
She's an elderly dog. I forgot to ask him day, can you bring her home? She dropped the they, she dropped the dog off and you know. I forgot to tell him, Hey, bring her home. He brought her home and let her in the house for me and, you know, and so, you know, when my wife got home and stuff, so yeah if you get it done right, 90, 95% of the time when I leave, it doesn't ha I don't hear from 'em.
And we had a the Bureau of Automotive Repair stopped by, so bar stopped by, which. If you're not a California it's a Nazi organization. It is and stopped by un unannounced about a customer that left us raving lunatic. Thank God his review was just raving. He accused us of not putting shocks in his car five years ago.
Because he went to, oh gosh, he and he left three and a half years ago, which was great. So he reported us to bar, the non-regular bar agent came in and said, okay, you gotta provide all this paperwork. Within three days. I was on vacation. My manager's like, Hey, I can get it, but hey, my owner's on vacation.
Can we wait? The guy's like, no. I gotta see whatever you got. And this guy was three. Three years ago, well, to come find out, BARR does can't ask for anything over than three years ago. So Blue took care of it all. Didn't call me, took care of it, got it all taken, done, made notes and everything.
He is like, I didn't know where you want to keep these notes. I've got all the hand notes here and everything like that. I'm like, great. I'll put 'em in a file. Didn't even hear from him. He took care of it. Got it done. Made the bar agent realize that he was wrong. Because they're asking for paperwork from five years ago and you know, so you get it done right.
And yeah, I, like I said, I rarely hear from them. And if it's, if it is, it's some specialty thing that we do and it, you know, it's a specialty job we sell once or twice a year that I do. Right then no reason to teach anybody else, you know, Hey, how do you bid this one, you know, some ancient, you know, job that you know, or whatnot, you know?
So,
Jimmy Lea: oh yeah, like the 1973 Toyota Corolla that I learned to drive on back at Grand Farm.
Tracy Cotton: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah that's the car that comes to you because nobody else is gonna touch that baby.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, and that's actually what happened last time when we went Hawaii. He comes up, Hey, we got this, you know, it was a 78 Corolla, and he's like, Hey, what do we do with this?
I'm like, who is it? He is like, I think it's a good guy and everything like that. I'm like, bring it in, you know? The guy, you know it. Yeah, we brought in, did some service work to it. Just the valve covered, gasket, figured everything out. Guy took it away, ordered all the parts and brought it back and you know, you know, so Good guy, you know.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Probably still a good customer today too. That's super cool man. Yep. That's super cool. Well, good. Well, and if every shop was as easy to run as yours is, adding a second, third, fourth, and fifth would not be an issue. But it's that 20% that says, oh my gosh.
Tracy Cotton: Yep. Yeah, and it's not easy. It's been designed, it took years to get it this way, you know, took years to get it this way, you know?
And
Jimmy Lea: Tracy, you hit a key point right there. You designed it that way. Yeah. You designed it, you had a plan, you executed it, you taught the plan, you lived the plan, you breathed the plan, you have everybody bought in on the plan, what's their input for the plan?
Tracy Cotton: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: Designed
Tracy Cotton: it. Yep. And with my, every, some of the owners might be will going, Hey, I wanna pull back.
And I went to my manager, shop foreman and said, Hey. I'm not gonna be, I'm only gonna spend half days here now. And you know, they're both like, good, you deserve it. If I didn't get any feedback, like, deserve it, go. You know, my, my shop foreman's, aav, and mountain biker. I'm like, I want to go ride my bike more.
So when I leave and tell him I, Hey, do you have a good ride? You know, he's not jealous. He's like, did you have a good ride? You know? So if you design it right then, you know it works. You know, it's the more, the guilt on my part than them wanting me there.
Jimmy Lea: And I've heard this before, I don't know if it's true for your business, your shop with your guys.
I hear a lot of shops where they say to the owner, Hey, we love you. Thanks for we got it set up. You. This is a great program. We make more money when you're not here. So if you could just. Go. That'd be great.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. To me if we're busy, yes. Sometimes we don't. Yeah, we do make a little bit more when I'm there because if there's a fire to put out blue can do it.
But yeah, if I do it, then Blue doesn't and he can concentrate on the other things. You know? Or if there's a problem, child car that's eaten, I might take, I'll take it away just so we can be efficient.
Jimmy Lea: I love it.
Tracy Cotton: And then I take it over and get over and make sure, and then that way they're, we're not having a car.
Eat us out a house, a home that you need to do to keep your reputation alive and stuff like that, you know? So, yeah.
Jimmy Lea: So I, it just sounds like you have such a good and just such an extraordinary team there with Blue and the advisors and everybody. Yep. Is there any bottlenecks that you're seeing today that if you don't address six months down the road, it becomes a mountain instead of a mole hill?
Tracy Cotton: Get getting my, I've got one tech that is excellent, but he's only. A 30 to 35 hour a week person. He is, been with me 12 years. He does excellent work. He gets it done. It's just we're able to put more work out. But at this stage, everybody's comfortable. It's working good. Yeah. To go find somebody else that is gonna be better than him is.
What? I'm too scared to go look for 'em. 'cause to find somebody, I would have to get rid of them and try to get 'em in a year or two. I'm very comfortable. My manager and foreman who get an overall bonus, they don't just get bonuses off their work, you know, they get bonuses off the shop. I'm like, Hey, this is affecting your pay.
What do you want to do? They're like, well, he works. What's the likelihood of us getting somebody without scaring him away? Because it's, Santa Cruz is a small community. Yeah. You know, so we're living with it, you know? Yeah. But everybody's making the money that they wanna make. Would they like more?
Yes, but they're very comfortable.
Jimmy Lea: Well, and the way to, yeah. You want to earn more and I totally get it. You put in overtime, you put in weekends, and that, that gets you more pay. But also to your point, if you've got a tech that's turning 30 to 35 hours, are you gonna live with it or is there a way to incentivize additional pay for this technician so that it does he does turn in 35, 38, 40, 42 hours per week on a weekly basis.
Tracy Cotton: Tried that, tried it all. I've tried the monetary, the time off. You know, hey, I'll get, you know, what do you like to do? He really only likes playing video games and you know, so, okay, I can get you I can get the brand new Xbox or PlayStation, whatever, you know, or get 'em the brand new hot computer where they've got the computer games and stuff like that.
That's one and done. You know, he is got it all. He is got his little setup and stuff and he's actually said, I don't know, you know, I've tried the bonuses. 'cause he's got a bonus system that once he hits 35 it goes, and if he hits 40, then he, it goes up a even higher, you know, so he can make an extra couple hundred a week, you know, that.
And then it would get the monthly bonus even higher. Yeah. You know, 'cause I do give everybody my, as I said before, my, everybody gets a team bonus and there's a team monthly bonus. My manager and shop foreman just get much higher team bonuses, you know? So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. I wonder, oh man. You know, I mean, this falls right in line with Cecil's teaching.
He talks about performance based pay. Where a percentage of your pay is livable.
Tracy Cotton: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: You're not ordering off the $39 steaks, you're ordering the $8 hamburger, but it is livable. And then the bonus is that additional, what is that additional that gets. And it could be that because of the team bonus, he's just comfortable being comfortable.
Tracy Cotton: Well, yeah. The team bonus is if he would get it. It's, yeah. I get that. He's just, yeah I've had some people tell me if you take the team bonus away and stuff like that, but if he's the only one that doesn't get a team bonus, then it's not team. Yeah. I mean, even my shop Porter gets a team bonus, but he only gets a weekly team bonus.
Because my shop porter helps, you know, you know, bleed the brakes. He'll get in there, bleed, flushing power string, which we still do on the Asian cars or run the car in there. He's the one doing that. Or if we need a long mileage confirmation to get the monitors to run because the car won't run right.
Or we just need to, if it's a hiccup car that only hiccups once a blue moon, my, the guys will put the scanner on record. He takes off and he knows how to hit the re where the button where I'll highlight when the, if, when the problem happens, I forget Whatever button it is, you know. Oh, sure, sure.
It'll put explanation. Yeah. And he'll, he knows how to do that and stuff, so, yeah. He he gets even a weekly team bonus.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, dude, that's awesome. A team is made up of individuals and it's their individual input that helps make that bonus be what it needs to be. Yep. So, man, congrats man.
That's awesome. So what does the future look like for you, Tracy? What's the three year plan? Five year plan? 10 year plan? What does that look like for you, brother?
Tracy Cotton: Well, that's what I'm f figuring out. Like I said, I was, the last year I've been going, oh, I love it. I hate it. I love it.
I hate it. My wife's like, you need to figure this out. Right. Because you've you're affecting the household and stuff like that, you know? And so I am working on getting the passion back, working on getting, finding other things to do because I, I'm not needed at the shop and I don't want to be needed at the shop, so I'm having to find things to keep me entertained.
I now, I'm a Rotarian. I've, I donate a lot of time to rotary yes to those things, but that's only so much time. So, I'm putting now a structured. Program in for myself that, you know, I'm giving myself a schedule, do this during these times and stuff like that, which I've heard before. I've never done that, and that's helping, you know.
So the next year get my passion back for the business to where itself, it self manages itself, which it does. But I let self manage itself, you know? Three years probably offer the shop to my shop foreman and manager to buy. And if they don't go from there five years, probably be retired from the industry.
Maybe I've actually thought of coaching. You know, yeah, I've thought about coaching, but I talked to the wife about that she doesn't like, she likes the traveling when the family takes off, but she doesn't like it when I'm gone a lot and I'm gone a lot mountain biking. So she, she's told me that, we've talked about this before, she's like, you'd have to give up one versus the other.
You can't be gone three weekends outta the month or whatever because, you know, so. 10 years traveling more, you know, you know, doing, and everybody says traveling for me. It's not just traveling overseas. That's once a year or so. We already do that here in the United States. More mountain biking you know, paddle boarding more I paddleboard.
Not a lot, but I am getting back into the paddle boarding. And stuff, you know, so, just traveling more, seeing, I just came up if you're not from California, you might not know the 3 95 I hadn't been up at in 10 years. I forgot how gorgeous it was. Went over the Sonora Pass, you know, in or into Yosemite, you know, and stuff.
So those type of things, getting out and traveling more and, you know, yeah. Employing the fruits.
Jimmy Lea: I was just in Yosemite in March. Yeah, Yosemite in the Redwood Forest. Yeah. Oh my gosh. It's just gorgeous there and yeah, you need to go and you need to ride it. Yeah. And if you get a chance, get up into into Whistler.
Take your mountain bikes up in the summer.
Tracy Cotton: I've done that. I've ta spent some weeks up there about 10, 12 year, well, about 10, 12 years ago. A couple times. Nice. I got a buddy that was Canadian that got booted outta the country. He was on a certain no, it was stupid. He was on a visa, didn't allow him to get engaged and he told them he just got engaged, so they kicked him out, which was awesome.
Oh my God. I went visit him. It took about a year and a half to get back in. And so I went and visited. We went and moved to Whistler. You know, so, oh, there you go. Yeah, but it's the traveling, just through the US United States, you know? We've got a gorgeous country here,
Jimmy Lea: And there's a lot of it, there's a lot to see.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: So, yeah, I agree with you. You don't need to travel internationally. There's so much to be seen just inside of these United States. Yeah. Yep. There's plenty of places for you to go to and things to see and stuff to do. Yeah I totally agree with you, bro. Yeah. That's awesome. So, if you had a magic wand and you could fix something in the industry, what would you wave that magic wand and fix automatically?
Tracy Cotton: Well, for the independents an organization that unites us all because, I love our industry. Rotary, we, the kids talk where they want to get in the trades. I hand them my cards and stuff like that, and I tell 'em I love my industry and everything like that, but you're gonna make more money as a contractor a craftsman, an electrician, or a plumber than you are as.
A technician when a plumber makes more money than a technic an auto technician, master plumber than a master technician. We've got something wrong. Now totally agree. Don't take, I don't wanna take anything away from a plumber. 'cause what they do is it's essential. Yeah. And I don't want to crawl underneath the house and do that.
I don't do it anymore. I'll pay them happily to do that work. But plumbing hasn't changed much. Cars are, you know, you're putting people's lives in their hands and stuff like that, and yet we don't have. An organization that unites us all. A-S-C-C-A, I'm gonna join it because it is floundering a little bit.
It needs more people, but we need that across the United States. We need to teach our shops how to be run better. You know, get rid of the, giving it away for free. I'm sorry. That's one thing that's kills us, you know? Oh, yeah. And
Jimmy Lea: you can't stay in business doing things for free.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, and even the free tire rotations, the tire shops that give the free tire rotations, I think that's one of the worst things out there.
'cause you know this kid that might be working the tire shop liking it, but because they're given the free tire rotations way, he's getting paid the barest minimum out there. And he can go work at any other trade and make, probably double to begin with. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: The amount of tools he has to buy is a quarter of what we buy in the automotive.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. You know, so, something, we need something because with the how the cars are coming around and the government keeps threatening and the major organizations, you know, we've been lucky that we have not been. What I call it written out or logged out of working on the cars, you know? Yeah. We've been very lucky on that, I think.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, and I hope, knock on wood, we never do if it went to that monopoly where the dealership was the only one allowed to work on the cars, we'd be, everybody would be in a world of hurt, I think. Yes.
Tracy Cotton: And it's not that far down the road that we're gonna have drive, driving, flying cars. So if we wanna work on those cars, eh, 10 years, 15 years, they're gonna be out there.
They're out there already. Yeah. But they're very limited. And of the super rich, there's only one or two, they're only a couple companies I know, but 10 years down the road, if this matter technology hits that they say, or probably will in the next five years or so. Are we gonna be able to work on those cars?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's the question. Yeah. Are we gonna have the training to be able to work on those cars? And is it, are people gonna take the training?
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, the training, I get that is, it's more are they gonna allow us, we need the training. Of course, that training I think will come out. It'll be slow.
It's will they allow us to work on those cars?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Well, not only Tesla. Have you seen BYD.
No. I build your dream. It's a company out of China. Yeah. He started making batteries and then bought a car manufacturer and brought the two together. Okay.
Tracy Cotton: Oh yeah, I've heard of those. Yeah, I've heard of those.
BYD Yeah. It's funny. I don't, I've, Tesla's are huge in my town. We don't work on 'em. Well, I'd have to get rid of a profitable car line to bring those in.
Jimmy Lea: No, you're good. You're good. It's not your customer, it's not your client. So you focus where you are. Yeah. And the thing about A BYD right now, you can't get 'em, you can't buy 'em in the United States, so nobody's gonna be working on that yet.
Yeah. But BYD outsold two to one Tesla just by selling in China, they sold out two to over Tesla worldwide.
Tracy Cotton: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: So anyways, yeah, there's a lot of technology coming our way. It's super exciting. It's super fun. Are we gonna be a part of it or are we gonna be left behind it? The only way to be a part of it and continue into the future is to get involved, just like you said, just like you're a part of Rotary providing service.
We're part of the association because we wanna make sure we continue in this business that we love. Yeah. It's taken care of us. Yeah. Really, truly. Wow, brother. It's good to spend some time with you. I've got some really good ideas for you, especially when it comes to coaching.
Tracy Cotton: Well, good. Thank you. Thank you.
Jimmy Lea: We should definitely talk brother. Yeah, we should definitely talk.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, well, like I said, I've been talking to the wife about it. I gotta get her on board, you know, as they say. Happy wife, happy life, you know. So, true. And I'm blessed. I'm the in relationships. There's the lucky one and the one that is unlucky, if you want to put it, I, no offenses or buts.
I'm the lucky one I anybody knows, goes. Yep. You're lucky. You know? So,
Jimmy Lea: so the, so if I understand you right, you're saying you're the lucky one and she tolerates you.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. There you go.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no, see, and that right there, that's just true love. Yeah. That's just true love.
That's all there is.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Brother Tracy, I, bro I agree with you. I think as an industry, we need to come together as one, not have all these fractions of all these different associations.
Tracy Cotton: Yep.
Jimmy Lea: We need to be one big solid family. There's 250,000 independent shops in North America, 250,000. We should be a voice of one, and that would be super powerful.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.
Jimmy Lea: All right, man. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there together. We're gonna lock arms, make sure we get there together. Yeah.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah. Yep.
Jimmy Lea: All right, Tracy. Well, thank you, brother. Appreciate it.
Tracy Cotton: Yeah, thank you very much. This was great. You're welcome. Thank you. You have a great day.