The Institute’s Leading Edge Podcast

142 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil & Lucas: Profit, Pricing & People

142 - "Ask Me Anything" with Cecil Bullard & Lucas Underwood: Profit, Pricing & People
September 3, 2025 - 00:54:39
Show Summary:
Lucas Underwood hosts an open AMA with industry veteran Cecil Bullard, digging into how macro “yellow flags” (rising delinquencies) typically boost repair demand, and why cash flow and reserves determine who survives slowdowns. They unpack practical pricing: when to use a parts matrix, target tire margins, and why some items belong outside the matrix. The duo stresses hospitality-driven experiences, disciplined shop-supplies billing, and charging properly for diesel and specialty work. They outline a hiring sequence for growth, the productivity pitfalls that kill profit, and a simple framework for net cash flow after taxes and distributions. Throughout, they challenge discount mindsets and make the case for sustainable, unapologetic profitability.
 
Host(s):
Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:00] - Economic “yellow lights” often push savvy consumers to fix, not replace; repair demand typically rises in these cycles.
[00:02:41] - Cash is oxygen—without 3–6 months of operating reserves, a short dip can shutter a shop.
[00:05:27] - Use separate strategies for items like tires, batteries, wipers, and fluids; some don’t belong in the standard parts matrix.
[00:09:28] - Thoughtful hospitality (even small freebies) wins loyalty—fund it by protecting margins elsewhere.
[00:14:01] - Compete on experience and trust, not price; most customers aren’t comparison-shopping 15 quotes.
[00:17:40] - Target ~35–40% gross margin on tires and price installation to hit labor GP goals; kits (TPMS, weights) lift the job’s GP.
[00:23:28] - Shop supplies like brake cleaner, bolts, clamps, and zip ties are parts—track and bill them, don’t give them away.
[00:29:40] - Diesel and fleet uptime are high stakes; charge your standard matrix and prioritize speed and correctness.
[00:36:32] - Hiring order for growth: add tech → second tech → third tech + service advisor; long-term, 5–6 techs to 2 advisors runs smoothly.
[00:49:14] - Aim for ~20% net; expect ~⅓ taxes, ~⅓ reinvestment, ~⅓ distributions—build real cash flow, not vanity revenue.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
 
Lucas Underwood: What is up everybody? My name is Lucas Underwood. I'm the owner of l and n Performance Automotive Repair, out here in Blowing Rock, North Carolina, and I'm one of the hosts of the Changing the Industry podcast. And today I have with me the Almighty Cecil Bullard. Cecil, how you doing, buddy?
Cecil Bullard: I'm doing great buddy.
Cecil Bullard: I don't know about Almighty. Some days it's like almost mighty or something. I don't know.
Lucas Underwood: Maybe just almost right?
Cecil Bullard: Almost is probably better. I'm great, Lucas. I'm great.
Lucas Underwood: Very good. Thank you for being here. I'm gonna jump right into some questions. We have, uh, some great questions over here on the side. Got some folks.
Lucas Underwood: I know Craig's in here, lots of folks asking questions already, but one of the things that came up in the changing the industry podcast group, first thing this morning is I posted something about some credit card debt delinquencies and posted some stuff about commercial delinquencies Now. I should, I should admit there's a caveat to this because when you put this out over the max span, that they've collected these numbers and have the data for this, we can see that these numbers aren't too high.
Lucas Underwood: Right now they're about 1.5, five to 2%, somewhere in there. Back in 2008, they were in the seven and 8% range, so they're not that high, but we are starting to kind of see those go up. Now what I said in the group was, is typically this is a good thing for auto repair because you're really financially savvy consumers.
Lucas Underwood: The ones that our shops typically work for are watching these warning signs. They're not flashing red, they're flashing yellow, and they're saying, Hey. Maybe I better back up a little bit. Maybe I don't buy that brand new Denali. Maybe I fix the one that I have now. Cecil, what does this mean for auto repair?
Lucas Underwood: When we start seeing some of these yellow warning signs flash,
Cecil Bullard: I think in, in every instance so far, um, auto repair, uh, succeeds, uh, greatly. And I think that's why you see venture capital really taking a serious look after 2020, uh, in every, you know, uh, when the. Gas crisis hit, uh, people kept their cars and spent money on them.
Cecil Bullard: When, uh, uh, the housing crisis hit 2008, 2009, same thing, uh, Enron before that, uh, same thing. Uh, during COVID, uh, we were an essential service. And while the restaurants were losing money and closing down and, and all of the other services, the hotels, uh, automotive was, uh, hitting record, uh, record pace. I also would tell you from what I can tell, uh, um, our industry is actually shrinking a little bit, uh, which is the first time that you really kind of see that in a long time, and which means that there are going to be fewer shops out there.
Cecil Bullard: So I, I think this is good for us, but we need, we, we need to remember, I don't, I, I need cash. Cash, cash and cash flow are, are important. And so it, it's really important that I understand my business and how to generate that, those profits. If I don't have any cash in the bank and another trauma hits. Uh, where people tighten up for a month or two, I think.
Cecil Bullard: I think we're gonna see a lot of businesses, automotive businesses, close. For sure. 'cause they don't have cash and they're, and they're on the edge all the time. And,
Lucas Underwood: and, and I've, I've been there, right? Like I have absolutely been there and, and I see a lot of businesses when we talk to 'em about, Hey, you need at least six months of operating expenses in the bank.
Lucas Underwood: They say, that's unattainable. That's crazy. How could you ever do that? And, and you're exactly right though. And, and cashflow is king. Right. Because I see so many businesses, they go out and they finance all of this stuff and all of their cash flow is committed before they even get the first dime in the door.
Cecil Bullard: And then you have a, a really dangerous spot to be in. Yeah. And then you have a bad week or a bad month because of the, you know, the weather or the whatever, and all of a sudden you're behind a month with all of your vendors and everything. And it, yeah. That's a really tough place to be. So, um, be smart. Um.
Cecil Bullard: Profit, understand what you have to mark things up, understand you know what profit you need to make and, and hold the line and you'll be fine. And I would say, you know, let's have at least a minimum of three months worth operating capital in the bank. And the way to start that is start, if you can't put 500 bucks a, a week aside, put uh, 200, whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Can put 200. Put a hundred. Yeah. Just get a habit of writing yourself that check first. Right. Yes. And putting that in that account and that account is not, Cecil gets to go buy a new truck account or a boat or that account is that money doesn't get touched unless the world is on fire. Right.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely.
Lucas Underwood: And I, I learned something years ago. Um, I, I did shop supplies for a long time. I made an adjustment to that. But when I took those shop supplies, those shop supplies were a percentage of income, and I just took that money and that went into that account no matter what. And so that was. Started building that kind of nest egg, that that protection blanket there started putting some money back.
Lucas Underwood: Cecil, the first question I wanna talk about, um, is what parts should not be in a parts matrix and how do we charge for those parts? Now, for me, my tires, they're not in the standard matrix, right? They're in a different matrix, but my batterie. I'm typically doing 35% on those, uh, wiper blades. I'm typically doing like 50% fluids.
Lucas Underwood: I've got one for that around the 55%, somewhere in that range. The one that I see a lot of shops get caught up on is things that are multiples, so eight spark plugs or a pin of star where you've got 16 rocker arms and it might drive the, the price to that 70 or 80%. Range because they're inexpensive. Tell us how do we, how do we navigate this?
Lucas Underwood: Because there's some things that may not need to be in a matrix, right?
Cecil Bullard: Most of the shops, um, don't put tires in a matrix. So we're, while we're looking for a 58% margin on our parts
Lucas Underwood: mm-hmm. We're
Cecil Bullard: looking for a 35% margin to 40 on our tires. Okay. Overall. Okay. And there are ways to deal with that, that will increase your profits, that will make that a very gross profit per hour worthy job to do, but it's not necessarily parts margin.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Or tire margin. Yeah, for sure. For sure. About. 25% of the shops you have, uh, you know, there's a, a book about, um, um, the Innovator's Dilemma and there's like four books in that particular series. And they talk about the, um, different types of people. Like, uh, you would be in the forward group, like you're gonna try things and you're gonna Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: You're gonna investigate and you're, but then there's an a backward group that basically doesn't wanna do anything until everybody else has done it and Right. And so there's always 15% of my clients that are in that forward group that are innovators, and they're going to, uh, constantly try new things.
Cecil Bullard: And, and I would tell you that a large. Percentage of those people right now are using batteries, charging out batteries, just like in the regular matrix. Okay. But the bulk, the majority of our clients, probably 80, 85%, they have batteries in a separate matrix where they're not making more than say 30, 35% like tires.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it's like a, it would be like a tire matrix. And, and then, um, I, I would tell you wiper blades, I, I wouldn't do it myself. Never did. Okay. Um, but, but if you think, uh, you know, I used to. When I used to talk about this, I used to say, don't discount anything. Do not. Right. Yeah. And, and the, your thought of competition is a false thought, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yes. Agreed. Agreed. You're, you're thinking that someone's looking at the wiper blades and if they don't buy wiper blades from me 'cause I'm too expensive, then they're gonna say everything else is too expensive. And, and I would tell you that the majority of your clients. The majority, 98, 90 9% are buying from you because they feel comfortable because you're close.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. You know, for a bunch of other reasons. Okay. Absolutely. And, and, and nowadays when I talk to clients, I say, if you're gonna pick, say, 10 items that you're gonna lower margins on and have a different matrix you're gonna use, or a different margin, like maybe I'll say, Hey, I'm gonna make. 35% on wiper blades and then that's it.
Cecil Bullard: I won't make more. Yeah. Um, you, you need to counteract that in some areas. Like, uh, axles for me was one of those where I could buy at the time an axle for a buck eighty nine, a hundred eighty $9, and if I matrix price, it'd go out at four something. Um, right. But if I had to buy an axle from a dealership, it was $1,400, right?
Cecil Bullard: And so,
Lucas Underwood: correct.
Cecil Bullard: I didn't sell axles at 4 89. I sold them at 6 99 where I could make a little extra. Yeah. So if you have things that you're gonna not make money on or not as much, you need other things that make up the difference. So, well, so
Lucas Underwood: I, go ahead. I, I, I've got something I've gotta throw in here, right.
Lucas Underwood: I'm gonna let you go on, but No. Well, so here's the thing. Okay. I've been, I've been working in the family business, which is all about hospitality, and I realized something about my shop. That I had never taken into account before. Right. It's that we're really good at hospitality. Yeah. And, and listen, because my ticket's profitable, there are cases where I can afford to go and put those windshield wiper blades on for that guest.
Lucas Underwood: And when they come in the door and I can say, Hey Mrs. Smith, I noticed those windshield wipers were worn out and your safety's very important to me. I went ahead and replaced them for you. Right. And then I mark it off on the ticket and I can pay it and I can take the money outta my wallet if I have to and pay it.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, yeah. But, but the thing is, is, is I use these opportunities to build hospitality. Yes. Now, when we talk about batteries, something that a lot of shops are missing right now is there are vehicles that the battery has to be coded. The battery has to be programmed to the vehicle. The installation is complex.
Lucas Underwood: There's a high likelihood of issues. And so I'm, I'm making my matrix. When I'm looking at some of these things, I'm not putting in the matrix. I'm saying, what's the chance that I have high liability here? What's the chance that I need to make this extra money because I could run into issues. Now if I'm putting an engine in a car, I know I need to make the money because there's a high likelihood something goes wrong.
Lucas Underwood: I need the extra margin. If it's something simple, well, why did we always do that with batteries and tires? Because it was a low chance of something happening, right? There was a low chance of a major issue occurring. So my tires.
Cecil Bullard: But think about this. Think, think about this. If your guy forgets to torque the lug nuts and that they lose a tire and they get in an accident and somebody gets killed, you wanna talk about liability?
Cecil Bullard: I mean, absolutely. That's why poor people,
Lucas Underwood: your tires
Cecil Bullard: have the highest liability of almost anything you do. You know? Absolutely. You screw up an engine. And uh, yeah, you might be replacing that motor, but nobody's probably gonna die from it. Right? Yeah, you're exactly right. And so you have to, and then we have cars catching fire because yeah, their electoral systems are overcharging or.
Lucas Underwood: You know, I don't know if you ever did this as a shop owner, we have social media now, and so like on the weekends when I see a car that's on fire and it got posted on social media, I'm scrolling and I'm trying to find the tag number,
Cecil Bullard: make sure, make sure it's not one of your clients. I did that whenever the tow truck showed up, like I was like, I'm in the point of sale, just like putting that, that license plate in.
Cecil Bullard: So I'm like, yeah, we do that. Is that one of mine? Did, has that been in in the last four months? I mean, you know, I, I, I hate it. Absolutely. I'm, I'm with you. So. But yeah, you, if you're gonna lower your price on certain things, 'cause you feel you want to be competitive, that's fine. Just remember that you raise the price by 1% on everything else to make up the difference.
Cecil Bullard: Because at the end of the day, I want 20% net period. Amen. Amen. And also, if you're estimating the way that I would teach you, which would be adding 10% into the jobs that you can. So, yeah, obviously an oil change, it has a cost or a, you know, uh, a, a brake flush has a cost, and I can't add 10%, but if I'm doing a water pump, if I sell that for 800 or 880, it doesn't matter.
Cecil Bullard: The, the, the buyers or the buyers and the not buyers. And not buyers, and if I have that 80 extra, extra 80 bucks. I decide I want to put wiper blades on Mrs. Jones' car and say, Hey, that's no charge. I still made my margin. Mrs. Jones felt like she got a great thing, she got wiper blades. We're all happy. Right.
Cecil Bullard: Well, and which is what I wanna create.
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And the experience plays into that. The experience has to play into that. And in the, the, the book I'm talking about unreasonable hospitality, right? Mm-hmm. He, he owned 11 and Madison, right? And one of the things that he talked about is he said he was out there, the owner of this, you know, world class restaurant, recognized as the best restaurant in the world.
Lucas Underwood: He's busing tables. They don't know who he is. And he hears this, this group at this table across from him. And he said, they're talking about the fact that they'd eaten at all these amazing restaurants, but the one thing that they had not done is they had not gotten a New York City hotdog. And he said, until you've walked to a Michelin Star chef and a five star restaurant, and handed him two hot dogs from the street, hotdog cart outside the front door, and said, please prepare these and take them to that guest.
Lucas Underwood: You don't know what a butt chewing is. Yeah, but he said they didn't look at the bill. They didn't, and he said that's what made us world famous, is that when we went out there and handed those hot dogs, they got on social media and talked about how amazing that experience was. And so we're in the business of creating experiences in auto repair too.
Lucas Underwood: And I know it sounds crazy to a lot of people, but I didn't realize that's what I was doing. When I would give a set of wiper blades away, I was making it up in my margin elsewhere. Cale, I, I can see it in the face. Like I'm, I'm debating how bad the butt chewings gonna be in our next coaching call.
Lucas Underwood: You're giving what away?
Lucas Underwood: Actually,
Cecil Bullard: actually, no butt chewing. I, if the bottom line is right, who cares if I give away wiper blades? Amen. Or anything else, right? I mean, yeah. So. And, and I got, uh, so I'm, we're doing the marketing conference, the Mars Conference in the next couple days, and I'm speaking Yeah. And I gotta tell you, everything is about the customer experience.
Cecil Bullard: Yes. All right. It's not about the price, it's not what it costs for the majority of the population. They don't care what it costs. They don't know what it should cost. They don't really care. They're not absolutely calling 15 shops and comparing you. And if they are, they don't know what they're comparing.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Exactly. So it doesn't matter. Um, it's all about the experience. And if you really want to be successful in automotive service and repair, don't forget about the service part of it. Amen. Because that's what it's all about. It's really taking care of that client
Lucas Underwood: a hundred percent. Jumping onto the next question, and it's kind of along these lines, and it's something that I've had a ton of experience with here recently.
Lucas Underwood: I'm on the board of the Automotive Service and Tire Alliance. A lot of people know that used to be the Independent Garage owners of North Carolina. We Mer, or we merged with the North Carolina Tire Dealers Association to make the Automotive Service Tire Alliance, and all of a sudden I'm sat in a room with the most successful tire shops.
Lucas Underwood: In my opinion in the country, right? Some of the most brilliant tire shop owners you could ever meet. And I'm sitting in this room with them and they're sharing with me their strategies. And all of a sudden I'm saying, you know, for years I said, tires don't make any money. And now I'm sitting in this room with these guys who are making way more money than I am with tires.
Lucas Underwood: Cecil, what should the, what should the margin and installation be on tires? How do we calculate this? I, I think margin
Cecil Bullard: wise, um, I was always looking for 40%. So, uh. I worked with, um, I've worked with many of the big tire guys. I, I mean, I worked with Goodyear for a while. I worked with guys big o tire stores, you know, just, um, uh, Bridgestone, Firestone, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: Right? And I, a guy had three big O stores here, and their tire margins were about 21%. I came in and I said, well, we're gonna get 40. And he was like, there's no way we're ever gonna get 40% on tires. And I'm like, yes, we are. And within six months, we were at 38. Now it, it's, it, it, it, it, I would like the goal to be 40.
Cecil Bullard: If we're at 35 or higher, I'm okay. We're fine. Okay. For tires. Alright. And then, um, there's other things I can do to improve my margin in the tire job, which is selling like A-T-P-M-S repair kit, uh, which is the O-rings for the TPMS and the, and the wheel weights as a kit. Also you were talking about like, uh, selling, I don't know, 12 spark plugs or, or yeah.
Cecil Bullard: You know, six spark plugs or whatever. I can create a kit out of that and sell that as a kit as opposed to individual. I can still get good margin, but it doesn't look like I'm charging you $45 or $54 per spark plug. Right. Yeah, that's a really good idea. And so creating kits, uh, around those things where I'm gonna put in like 12 injectors or, you know, whatever, those will help you look better and maintain margin, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: And absolutely. And so that would be that as, and so how much to put on. I'm gonna have a technician who's going to spend, um, a tech, not really a tech, 'cause we don't tire tech or whatever. Gonna spend a half an hour probably. So I have to, I have to think about that half an hour cost for that guy, mark that cost up so that I can make my.
Cecil Bullard: You know, 62% on labor gross profit. And then that's what I wanna sell a set of tires for, um, you know, the, the installation part. So I'm gonna have the installation. Uh, I, I think today I'd be 20, 25 bucks a tire. I don't think it'd be less than that period. Yeah. I,
Lucas Underwood: I think I'm more than that. I think I'm 32 right now.
Lucas Underwood: And yeah. And you know, one of the things that we talk about a lot. Because it's the automotive industry, we tend to come back to hours, right? And we talk about hours a lot and how long it takes somebody. You know, one of the things I think is important to share is that within reason. It's not really that important how long it takes 'em, we don't care necessarily how long it takes.
Lucas Underwood: We just wanna make sure we're paid for their time and they're paid for their time.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. But, but, but kind of we do, because the biggest problem we have in the automotive industry that's killing profit is, uh, labor productivity. It's, it's not necessarily pricing or parts pricing. It's productive.
Cecil Bullard: It's lack of
Lucas Underwood: productivity. You're absolutely right. But, but here's my point with it is if you're, if you're tracking it properly. Because what was it Jimmy always said you can't manage what you don't measure. Yeah. And so if you're not tracking it and you're not managing it, and you're not saying, Hey, like I don't really care how long it takes you to do this job.
Lucas Underwood: Here's book. You've got this kind of margin over top of book. But if you're gonna go over this, we have to have a discussion so I can bill appropriately to make this work. Well, and you have to
Cecil Bullard: understand when you're gonna go over and you have to know how to deal with that and the times that you are gonna go over.
Cecil Bullard: And you also have to expect that every once in a while you're gonna go over. Right. Yeah. And that's just part of the job. I mean, uh, I was at a shop the other day and, and the owner was like, oh my God, we got this car in here. It's been kicking our ass. We did this, we did this, and we did that. And yeah, and I'm like.
Cecil Bullard: Welcome to Automotive Service and Repair. You know, every once in a while you're gonna have a car that kicks your ass. And same thing with that's it, busting tires. Every once in a while you're gonna have something to fight you and it it might take you longer. It it, and as a manager, I, I don't care if you do that every once in a while.
Cecil Bullard: I just care if you do it all the time. Absolutely
Lucas Underwood: right. I, I don't even care if they do it from time to time as long as they're communicating with me. Yeah. Right. One of my biggest issues is, and, and I've shared this with you as, as my coach, I've got a diagnostician and he gets so wound up in the problem that he doesn't stop and come back to me and say, Hey, dude, I've done this, this, and this.
Lucas Underwood: Here's the next test I need to do. It takes me this long. Yeah. And by the way, if it's so end up three hours in, I dunno.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If it's his car and he wants to spend his time working on his car for free, that's great. But if it's my customer's car and we're gonna take more than the allotted hour and a half, um, then I want to know and have the opportunity as the owner or the manager to go, either I'm gonna give it away or I'm gonna charge for it.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Absolutely a hundred percent. And I know owners all the time, they're like, oh, I'll make it up on the end. No, you don't. Yeah, mostly you don't. Right? Yeah. So it's better if we have good communication. We need to build those communication things into our process so that when the guy gets something that kicks his ass, uh, my son, my oldest boy sent me a, a, a meme and it's a guy with a, a, a big ratchet and he's like trying to get this bolt.
Cecil Bullard: And all of a sudden you hear Snap. And the ratchet's kind of free, and you see his whole face changes. And, uh, my son thought that was funny, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Really funny. I've been there. Now you're gonna have to, now you're gonna have to drill that out. You're gonna have to probably rethread it, blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: That's when that guy needs to go to the service manager, service advisor and go, Hey, we need more time. Because this car that I'm working on, that thing happened and yeah, not my fault. Right? Or my fault.
Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And I shouldn't pay for it percent, a hundred percent. I didn't build it, buy it or break it.
Lucas Underwood: So it's kinda like, you know, I didn't even get to drive it. I didn't have the fun of driving it, so why am I paying for it? So let's jump into shop supplies. And sublet, because that's another question in here is, is how should we approach, uh, shop supplies and sublet charges and, you know, shop supplies. I said I'd do something a little bit different now.
Lucas Underwood: Right. And what I did with mine is I increased my labor rate. For that same percentage, just so I don't have to have the discussion about it every ticket. And so I took that off the ticket. And then I just remember that that's in my labor rate. So when I go up and when I do my labor calculations, I know that percentage is not truly for that.
Lucas Underwood: That's another percentage that should be somewhere else in my financial data. I just know it's there.
Cecil Bullard: But also, but also, think about this, if I went up, say $40 an hour, and I was charging say, 6% of my labor rate as a shop supply. I have to move my labor rate up another $2 and 40 cents to keep that or my shop supply part of that at the same percentage, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yep. Absolutely. And I do, so I,
Lucas Underwood: I calculate it just like that.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, and those guys don't want you to yell at me. Most guys, most guys probably don't, but, but that's what I need to do. Now, if you are charging soft supplies, you have to also understand this, and this makes me crazier than all. Stuff. I had a guy in the office yesterday, one of my clients, and we're talking and he's like, yeah, I bought, I said, why was my parts margin so bad?
Cecil Bullard: Oh, we bought the 2 55 gallon drums of brake cleaner. Great. How much brake cleaner did we charge out last month? Oh, um, I don't know. None. I. Didn't charge, it's a shop supply. And I'm like, no, it isn't 55 gallons. It's, you know, whatever it is. A a 1,012 ounce cans. Right? And every time I do a brake job, I'm charging for a can of brake cleaner, even though it only costs me a buck 27 in a 55 gallon drum, I'm charging 13, $14 for a can of brake cleaner.
Cecil Bullard: It's one of my higher margin items. And I want to know that if I had a 55 gallon drum that I have the commensurate. Brake cleaner cans being sold. Okay. Right, and, and so what is a shop supply? Shop supplies are cleaners for the floors. Yeah. Um, shop supplies are gloves, hearing protection, eye protection.
Cecil Bullard: Shop supplies are rags. Okay. And, uh, potentially fees to have your rags kept clean and et cetera. Uh, bolts, nuts, washers, uh, brake cleaner. Uh, tie wraps, those are not shop supplies. Those are parts. And those are higher margin parts because they're inexpensive and can be marked up higher. And if you're giving those away, even if you're charging 4% on shop for your shop supplies, you're not making that up.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So what what got me was we spent $3,900 on, now this guy made about 6,000 on $130,000, which is not good enough. Right in in net. Yeah. And he sold, uh uh. He sold, he bought, he sold $3,600 worth of shop supplies and he bought $3,900 worth of shop supplies.
Lucas Underwood: Okay. Oof.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so, you know, obviously that's a, oh my gosh, what are we doing?
Cecil Bullard: And then you find out that he's giving away things like break brake cleaner and you know, and they use brake cleaner. Like it's, I don't know, like I take showers. Yeah. Uh, I mow the yard, I take a shower. I, I, I You think they're cranking it? I walk. Yeah. They might be. You never know. I'm just asking for a friend, you
Lucas Underwood: know, it's not like I go for 25 cases a week.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But, but are we charging for parts the way we should charge for parts? And are we charging for shop supplies the way we should, should charge for shop supplies? And yes, we should have a shop supply charge, whether it's a four to 8% of our labor rate charge or whether it's a, I charge shop supplies at four to 8% on as a, as a line item in my billing, and then I'm not.
Cecil Bullard: I'm not giving away my bolts and my washers and my correct, um, tie wraps and my um, uh, clamp hose clamps.
Lucas Underwood: When you start charging for it, you realize how much you were leaving on the table. And it's not just about money. It can be thousands, a, a month, I mean for sure. Yeah. Well, and I mean, like when that happens though, let's think about what happens when we do that.
Lucas Underwood: When we give that away, not only are we giving money away. But we're also messing up our entire inventory. And so now if we have a parts guy, if we have a service advisor, it's very difficult. How many times have we stopped the production of a job? 'cause we didn't have one bolt, right? Yeah. Now I've got bolt bins out here, and if I'm watching that number go down and I'm saying, Hey, I'm gonna need this bolt.
Lucas Underwood: If my part guy puts it on the ticket, he says, oh my God, I've only got two of those left. I better order some. Yeah. And so when we talk about efficiency in the shop, this is stuff that plays into efficiency in the shop. And look, I mean, even if they don't wanna charge for it, fine, whatever, but you need to track it so you can at least have them when you need 'em.
Lucas Underwood: That can do, we need them,
Cecil Bullard: that can hold up a $10,000 job for two days. Yeah. While I try to order a special bolt that I should have had that I don't have because I've been giving them away and not keeping track.
Lucas Underwood: And let me tell you folks, when, when you've got a coach like Cecil Bullard and you realize that that job didn't close last month because of.
Lucas Underwood: 41 cent bold and nobody in town had one. But you usually keep one on the shelf and you've got to explain that to Cecil Bullard. You'll quit doing it, I promise. Okay. I'm just gonna tell you right now,
Cecil Bullard: if every shop owner were like, oh, I have to spend a an hour with Cecil once every two weeks, they would be like, oh, I'm gonna do these things better because then I don't have to have those conversations.
Cecil Bullard: That's exactly
Lucas Underwood: right. I don't want to have that. Discussion again. Um, so er, auto, diesel and tire. Ask, what about diesel parts? Now look, I'm, I'm gonna get on my soapbox, Cecil, because when I started this, I was a diesel performance shop. Yeah. All I did was work on diesel trucks and I thought that I had to match what everybody was selling the parts for online.
Lucas Underwood: And you know what I do now? I charge the same price that I charge for everything else. I don't make those adjustments. And it's because, so what if you, that's what takes to fix the truck.
Cecil Bullard: What if you really charge what you should charge? Okay, so I use my same matrix, uh, my diesel matrix. I have a diesel matrix.
Cecil Bullard: It's not much different, frankly.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Um, what if I used my same matrix and I charged what I needed to charge and let's say 20% of those clients said no. Too expensive for me. I can get the parts cheap and, and so this is the, I, I mean, I can remember as a 25-year-old service advisor. Um, arguing with a client over whether or not they could bring their shitty alternator in their rebuilt alternator, or I was gonna replace the alternator.
Cecil Bullard: And I can remember having that very same client tell me, if it's no good and it doesn't work, I won't be mad at you, so I won't hold you accountable. And even having them sign something that said, if we have to replace it, you're gonna pay for it. Right? And every one of those SOPs. Um, treated me poorly, treated me like I, I was the one that bought a, a shitty part, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: This is not new. Okay. Yeah. We've been dealing with this since automotive started. Yep. I mean, since cars had wheels, uh, uh, we've been dealing with this and there's always gonna be somebody that will do it cheaper. I'm not, yeah. I, I'm not building my business on Oh, and. It just drives me nuts. You'll, you'll, I'll go do talk in a diesel place and I'll talk about parts margin.
Cecil Bullard: They're like, oh, diesel, you can't, sure you can. I have clients that do it. Diesel shops. I do it all day long That are charging what they charge. Yeah. All day long in getting what they get. Now there are some things like, um, uh, suspension kits. I have shops that do that and Yeah, and they can get it on cheap online, and they'll let a client bring the suspension kit in because they just can't even come close to.
Cecil Bullard: Competing price wise, I, I see. I
Lucas Underwood: quit doing that work. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't, I just, by doing it, it's too much headache. It's too much frustration. And, and when we start looking at the shop, right, you've really taught me to look at the shop in a box and say, here, here's like, Lucas, you only have this much time during the day.
Lucas Underwood: And if, if you're gonna be efficient a hundred percent of this time, here's what it takes. Here's what it should be, and why would it fill my
Cecil Bullard: time with something at 3% margin as opposed to at something at 20% margin,
Lucas Underwood: it turns into a mess and turns into hurt feelings. I'll, I'll never forget. I had to go get an LT two 60 here in North Carolina.
Lucas Underwood: It was somebody had abandoned their car here and I was sitting in the magistrate's office as the person in front of me goes up. And it's an argument between a professional provider and a consumer. And he said, but sir, if you look right here, they signed a waiver that said, and that magistrate said, according to federal and state law, you cannot waive a professional responsibility.
Lucas Underwood: I'm sorry, but that waiver is no good in this court.
Cecil Bullard: And you use in every single court case. Absolutely. You are the professional whether you like it or not. Exactly. And you cannot sign your rights away. I don't care what the. You, you know why? Like I, I went in and had brain surgery, and what did they have me sign?
Cecil Bullard: If they screw this up, I'm not, they're not liable. I won't sue the hospital. I won't do this. I won't sue the doctor. Blah, blah, blah. You know what that is? That's all smoke and mirrors, because that's a, that's a, please
Lucas Underwood: don't sue us.
Cecil Bullard: Yes. And, and because they know that a certain percentage of the population will say, well, I signed that, so I can't sue.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Yeah. You cannot sign your rights away. Exactly. You cannot. A hundred percent, hundred percent. Well, so stop. Go ahead. What's the value? What, what is the value of your time and your person's time? And, and stop saying, well, somebody else is giving their time away, so I have to give mine away.
Lucas Underwood: So here's my perspective on the diesel truck thing, okay?
Lucas Underwood: Um, are there consumers who want the cheapest price? And there are people who can't afford a diesel truck. A diesel truck is the most expensive automobile on the road to maintain, maybe aside from a, just a handful of very expensive European cars, right? Diesel trucks are the most expensive to maintain.
Lucas Underwood: You don't buy a diesel truck to play, okay? I'm not trying to hurt anybody's feelings. That sucker is meant to work, and if it's not out there making money. Then I don't know why you got it. Yeah. And if it is out there making money, you know that you need to pay me to fix it correctly and quickly so it doesn't go back down again.
Lucas Underwood: Okay. Because it's a question, think about what
Cecil Bullard: it costs, think about what it costs when it's not on the road. Exactly. It's costing five, $600 an hour to that guy. Absolutely. And then I'll never tell me that you wanna argue. Would
Lucas Underwood: it cost to fix the dang thing? Absolutely. And the, those are the good clients who don't argue about it, say, fix it, get it on the road quickly.
Lucas Underwood: I've got a fleet who is HBAC, right? Really great fleet, and they bought a ton of Sprinter vans. These things kept going into a D rate where they would lock themselves out, they would run 'em low on death fluid, or they would have an emissions failure and it would lock out and it would only run five mile an hour, or it would go down to where it wouldn't start and they would have to tow it all the way to Charlotte.
Lucas Underwood: From here, it's a $400 tow bill down there. It's two days of sending somebody down to pick it up, get it. It's taken all these two guys outta work. It's a big deal. Right. It's expensive. And so I'm talking to the man about it and I said, Hey, listen, you know, I, I hate that you have him do that, but it's under warranty.
Lucas Underwood: And he said, I don't care about the cost of fixing it. Let me explain to you on the road needs me $30,000 a week or more. And he said, so taking it out for one day and sending it down there and taking two guys to do that, that's $60,000 a day. Right? He's, it's a bunch of money.
Cecil Bullard: And let, let me ask this question 'cause I, I gotta ask the question.
Cecil Bullard: Who in the f taught these guys that they have to be price competitive with a bunch of idiots that don't understand their business and don't know how to make a profit. Right, right. Where, where did they get that idea that, well, it's, it's a competitive marketplace. Well, of course it is. Everything's a do.
Cecil Bullard: You know, you wanna know Burritos is a competitive marketplace. Yeah, absolutely. But I don't go to the place that has the cheapest burrito. I go to the place that has the best burrito, the one I like that's close by, blah, blah, blah. A hundred percent and a hundred percent. Yeah. It it, and, and we, we have a bunch of these in the industries.
Cecil Bullard: You could, you could talk about the diesel guys, you could talk about the, the, uh, some of the European shops. You could talk about the diag guys trying to give away free diag all the time. Yeah. 'cause someone else is giving away free diag. And, and we, we get these crazy ideas that we can't. We can't make a profit and then we live by that and then we
Lucas Underwood: die by that.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. And, and I share with shop owners all the time. Look, the numbers are, the numbers are the numbers. Right? There's no way around it. And, and if that's what the business takes to be profitable, that's what the business takes to be profitable. I can't just make numbers up and throw 'em out there and expect to survive.
Lucas Underwood: And you wanna know, it just
Cecil Bullard: does not work. Do you wanna know that my, my highest priced, most profitable shops?
Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm.
Cecil Bullard: Are the most consistently busy. Also, they have the best clients. They have the best client counts. The, the consistency, it's the guys that are discounting and cheap that are fighting and arguing every day and not consistent in their business because of what they're doing.
Cecil Bullard: They have the,
Lucas Underwood: they have the happiest tax. They have the happiest clients. They have the happiest staff. Yeah. They have people that go home at the end of the day and take the weekend off and Right. Like, that's just how it is. I love, and you don't have to fight for this.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I got a worker's comp audit and they sent me a bill today and I'm like, okay, I just need to talk to my hr, you know my people.
Cecil Bullard: And I said, Hey, is this the company? And they're like, yeah, that's a company. I said, did they really do an audit? Yes, they did. Okay. I owe 'em money. Well, I hate that. Right, but it sure is nice that money sitting in the bank that you can just write a check and go, okay, here you go. It's just an inconvenience.
Cecil Bullard: It's not, oh my God, where am I gonna come up with that money so that I can pay this worker's comp audit that I have to pay? Right? I mean, it's not like I get anywhere around it. You know, my rent. I have to pay my workers' comp, I gotta pay, and it's nice to have money in the bank. Stop thinking that you need to be competitive with the guy down the street who's running himself in the ground.
Cecil Bullard: You don't.
Lucas Underwood: Well, and even beyond that though is you don't know what his financials look like. Yeah. You don't know what his numbers are. He may not be paying rent. Yeah. You don't know what his situation is, and so you can't base it off what he's doing. You have to base it off of your financials. There's no way around that.
Lucas Underwood: So let me ask, understand what your business needs to do financially
Cecil Bullard: first.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. Absolutely. So let me ask you this. One of the things that we've been talking about a lot in the group here recently is the onboarding of new staff. And, and the two that really stand out to me is there's a lot of folks who are saying, Hey, I'm gonna hire my first tech.
Lucas Underwood: Hey, I'm gonna hire my first advisor. And then after that, you start hearing, Hey, I'm gonna hire a manager, or I'm gonna hire a parts guy, whatever it may be. In what order do we begin to put people in the shop? So we're a one man band. We've got the shop it, it's cooking, we've got it full of cars. We're doing all this work.
Lucas Underwood: Cecil, when do I start bringing people in and in what order do I bring them in?
Cecil Bullard: The first thing I that I have to do is decide what I want, uh, 10, 15 years from now. Okay. What do I want to be? If I wanna be a tech in my business and that's my joy and I wanna have someone else manage it and run it and, and all of that, then that's a different, uh, uh, progression.
Cecil Bullard: I would tell you for most of us though, we have a vision of. I won't be working on cars, I'll be the, you know, I'll be the manager owner. I won't, you know, I'll take Wednesdays off, you know, whatever. And, and so usually for me, it's a tech, um, first. Okay. And when I have, you know, so I should be doing somewhere between, probably around 40,000 a month by myself.
Cecil Bullard: Okay? Me writing service, me talking to clients, me doing work. And then, uh, and then I'm gonna probably hire a technician, and now we're gonna be doing 60, 65,000. I'm gonna step into the more of the service advisor role, less of the production role. Then I'm gonna hire a second Tech, and now we're gonna be doing 80,000 to to a hundred thousand, and I'm gonna be writing service 99% of the time, and I'm not gonna be working on cars.
Cecil Bullard: Then when I go to hire my third tech, I'm hiring a service advisor. To come in. Okay. Okay. And so I, I, I want to have no more than six techs for two service advisors. Okay? Probably when I get to four at before four techs, I want to have a, either an assistant or somebody as a service advisor. And so for me, building the business is almost always let's go find the tech or a tech, either one, we can train or one that's already trained, hopefully.
Cecil Bullard: Um, before I do a service advisor or, or anything. 'cause I am the face of the business when I start a business and it's just me. Yeah. And so I want, I want that continuity with my clients. Um, and I'm much more likely to be able to sell the, the customer, et cetera, than say someone else that I might quote unquote bring in.
Cecil Bullard: Um, right. And so that's kind of the progression. And also, you know, when does my shop run most efficiently? Most profitably, five to six techs, two service advisors. The parts guy. Right, right. And one of those techs, one of the service advisors is probably a quote unquote service manager that has some management duties, uh, so that I don't have to show up every morning or I don't have to do everything in the business management wise.
Lucas Underwood: So, a couple, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take us off track here a little bit. So one of the things that we see happen a lot is a technician becomes disgruntled in their current place of work and they decide they're gonna start their own job. And they say, I am going to reinvent the wheel. I'm gonna show these guys how to run a business because the auto repair industry just doesn't work the way it is now.
Lucas Underwood: And I, there's aspects of that I don't disagree with. And I, you know, I am a huge proponent for technicians. I don't believe that we've been treating them very well, and I believe that in a lot of ways that we have to make sure we're respecting them and taking care of them. But we're seeing these guys go start shops and they're treating themselves worse than the shop was treating them.
Lucas Underwood: But because they're doing it for themselves, they feel really good about it, right? And so I believe that it's important that we educate them and help them grow up in that. But what I'm seeing is, is these really, really skilled. Technicians go out, start a shop. Then they decide to charge less than everybody else.
Lucas Underwood: Now, from the way I see it, that's a boutique type shop, right? That's a, that's a one in a million. You get to talk to the guy that's working on your car. He's the owner of the business, cares genuinely about its growth, and cares genuinely about you because he has a personal connection with you. To me, that seems like it's very valuable.
Lucas Underwood: Why do you think they're not charging more than they are for that service?
Cecil Bullard: We're all afraid. Um, the whole industry's afraid of charging and losing customers and losing techs and blah, blah, blah. I, I, I'd like to, I'd like to say two things and I, I want to have the conversation about how we're treating techs separately.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. So, okay, let's do it. Um, uh, first, uh, I, I, I was teaching a class, uh, about the numbers and everything here in Utah, and the mayor's brother had a shop and he was like, I'm sick and tired of shops ripping off customers, and in my shop, we're only gonna charge the whatever the parts cost us, and $90 an hour in labor because that's all I need.
Cecil Bullard: And if I do 90. Dollars an hour, then I get what I need financially and that's the way it's gonna be. And I said, I said, dude, um, congratulations. You're gonna be outta business in 12 months. Yeah. Now he proved me wrong. It took 13 months for him to go out of business. Yeah. We need to understand our business as a financial model and profitably how we need to be profitable.
Cecil Bullard: And if we don't understand that, stay outta my business because all you're doing is hurting yourself and hurting others and, and hurting our industry. So that's common aside. Um, why do they charge less? Because they don't. First of all, I'm, I'm, I'm fearful because I'm starting something out fresh and so I'm gonna use discounting 'cause that's what everybody does to attract clients and try to bring clients in.
Cecil Bullard: I build my business on a bunch of discount clients who are the ones who will argue with me over price and reinforce my idea that price is the number one thing. Okay. Yeah. Isn't it amazing like on online where we, if we're conservative, we get the same conservative messages over and over and we never get any liberal messages in our feeds because.
Cecil Bullard: Online, Facebook and Twitter. The algorithm follows what you wanna hear. They all know what I like and they're gonna feed me more of what I like. Okay. Yeah. That kind of happens in our automotive businesses, especially because we're in this area where we have blinders. Because it's only my business, it's only my experience.
Cecil Bullard: I don't have the experience of the 800 shops or the 8,000 shops. Okay. Yeah. And so that, that, that is an issue for me if I am gonna be that guy that gives you that personal attention. I have to pay for myself my time and my time is the most valuable time. Okay? Yeah. And, and so I can't charge you less because Cecil's doing it.
Cecil Bullard: I have to charge you at least what I would charge you for any of my other coaches, if not more. Than my other coaches because my time has more value. Right. And, and it is a, a premium service if you're getting to talk to the tech. Yeah. Um, and my recommendation would be you don't do that. You don't set that up.
Cecil Bullard: You, you're the, the service advisor. Whoever's talking to the client is the front, oh, is the business. Right. Yeah. I represent the tech, I represent the owner, I represent the parts department. I represent the whole company. And I'm here to take the heat for you, the client, right? And, and to make sure that you get what you're, you deserve.
Cecil Bullard: And, and so I would say that's an issue. Now, how we treat our techs, I don't agree with you, frankly. I mean, are there techs that are mistreated? Yes. Okay.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: But you have choice. Okay. You don't have to say, yes, I'll, I'll agree to this shit. And, and, and deal with a, an owner that treats you poorly or doesn't pay you well, especially right now, I mean, the last numbers I saw, holy crap, we need is your tax.
Cecil Bullard: I mean, you can go anywhere and, and yet they put up with this crap and these poor pay plans and the, and, and being treated, mistreated and, and in my opinion, frankly, uh. Stop. Life's too short. Okay. Yeah. And, and so as an, whenever we like, uh oh, a whole generation, they're just terrible. You know, these new generations, they just don't have blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Generalized. That's crap. That's crap. So, generalizing the fact that techs are mistreated, are there great examples of mistreated techs? Yes. Yeah. By the way, there were before. Okay. It's just now more visible. And if you don't like the way you're treated, oh my God, you got wheels on your toolbox for a reason.
Cecil Bullard: Right.
Lucas Underwood: Listen, I upset a lot of people. Okay? Yeah, because I made a video a while back and I was talking about the fact, and there's another video coming as a result of this, but I was talking about, Hey, listen. I completely understand that if you're not paid fairly and if things aren't working right, but you can't be a victim, you have to solve the problem.
Lucas Underwood: Right. You, you should be working on that in
Cecil Bullard: your shop.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, exactly. And so like, we can't be victims. We have to take the problem, we have to solve it, we have to fix it, we have to go on. And if it's that we're not being paid fairly. If things aren't working for us, nobody else is gonna look out for me or you.
Lucas Underwood: We have to look out for ourselves. We have a personal responsibility. If we have a family, we have people we love. We have people we care about. That's our job to look out for them. The industry isn't necessarily gonna look out for Bobby that works in the shop down the street. That's Bobby's job. And I'm not saying that, that there aren't shops that will look out for Bobby.
Lucas Underwood: I'm just saying if it's not working and you're not making enough and you're not surviving. You've gotta do something different. Whether that's spend less money, whether that's take ownership of it,
Cecil Bullard: we perpetuate this same BS because I, I start my own shop because the guy before me is charging $150. Now he's only paying me 30, so I'm poorly paid.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Right. But, but because I think that he's making 150 for every hour, but I don't understand about rent and utilities and banking costs and, and yeah. Uh, uh, insurance and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. That guy, in most cases is making less than you. And we perpetuate this and we keep perpetuating it because we don't learn about the business financially and understand the business financially and how to.
Cecil Bullard: How to dig ourselves out of these holes and yeah. And so, you know it, there are examples of really poorly paid technicians and really shitty bosses. There's plenty of that out there. Yeah, absolutely. But most of the guys that I know and work with. These techs are making tons of money. We put these pay plans in place.
Cecil Bullard: You understand the pay plans? We put 'em in your place. Yep. And it gives, gives them tons of opportunity. But the business, the business has to succeed along with them. I can't charge $90 an hour. Pay somebody, you know, 40 bucks an hour plus benefits and still survive financially. I, I, I can't do it. And, you know, I'll, I'll tell you, I don't think there's a shop in the United States today.
Cecil Bullard: I used say, should be under 250 an hour. I would tell you right now it's 300.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, I'm, I'm with you. If you look at inflation, if you look at the, the way the data's played out over the years, the complexity of the car, all of the things that, that play into what auto repair should be charging, we're not where we're supposed to be.
Lucas Underwood: Not even close, right? No. Like we, we fell behind. Why? Yeah. Let me ask you, why did we fall behind? Scared.
Cecil Bullard: We're fear. We're afraid. We're afraid. It, I, I think I have to, I have this false sense of the guy down the street. I drive by his shop, it's full, and I think, oh, he's busy. And, and I know what his labor rate is or what he talks about.
Cecil Bullard: And, uh, you know, we, we have a friend who talks about, uh, not charging diagnostic fees. Yeah. Oh, come on, gimme a break. You, you charge diagnostic fees. You just charge everybody. You raise your labor rates so that everybody pays the diagnostic fee. You just don't. Yep. Give it to the, the client. We, we have this false sense of that.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Because this, this per this particular person is giving that false sense out. Like he's doing something secret that nobody else knows how, and he's magic. He, he ain't magic. The guy down the street that's got cars in fully in his shop is either doing one of two things. He's either cheap, cheap, cheap, and he has every cheap person.
Cecil Bullard: With every piece of crap car in his shop. Yeah. Which he's not getting out 'cause he's not productive, he's not as profitable as you think. Or his service is so good that people are lining up and willing to wait for them. Yeah. And if that's the case, then his price is, is much higher than the guy that's giving it away.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. Okay. And 'cause he understands the dynamic. Yeah. And there's nothing in between that.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: There's really
Lucas Underwood: nothing in between that. Yep, you're exactly right. Last question, uh, what percentage of net profit should be your net cash flow after paying shareholder contributions and any debt?
Cecil Bullard: Um, uh, so I, I, I want 20% net, net.
Cecil Bullard: Net. Okay. Okay. Out of that 20% net, I'm gonna pay taxes, which is gonna be about a third. Okay. Somewhere around 30% of that 33% is gonna go to tax. It's gonna leave me, um, 60% of that 20%. Okay. Okay. So now I'm at 12 to 14%. Depending on my, how good my tax guy is of that 12 to 14, I am now gonna pay shareholder contributions, which is gonna be about half of that.
Cecil Bullard: And the other half of that is gonna be set aside for, um, building tools, uh, et cetera. Um, I'm gonna end up with seven to 8% of the of the net net. Uh, of the, not of the 20%, but I'm gonna end up with seven or 8% of the overall net profit in my pocket as a shareholder. Got it. Okay. Got it. And, and I might even end up with 10 or 12 if I do this right and I run myself at 24%, which means I have to be more than a hundred percent productive.
Cecil Bullard: But I have shops that certainly do that. Um, basically for training purposes. A third is gonna go to taxes, a third is gonna go to, um, the building, the maintenance, the upkeep, et cetera. And a third is gonna come to me, the shareholder. Got it. Got it. Of whatever that profit is.
Lucas Underwood: And, and you know, there are some shop owners who don't believe that they should be making a profit.
Lucas Underwood: What do you say to them? Get outta my
Cecil Bullard: business. Get outta my business. I mean, business is about profit and like it or not, we, you know, would, we love to be in, in a sense, socialist, socialist, uh, uh. I go, I want to take care of everybody. Um, I love everybody. I, I really would. If, if I could do nothing. But coach and, and do this and help people, my life would be the best life in the world.
Cecil Bullard: All right? Right. Except I have to eat, I have to pay my bills. Um, who's gonna take care of me when I can't do this anymore? Um, yeah. Uh, uh, Lucas, if, if I fall into hard times, are you gonna take care of me? Uh, is it gonna be you and my Listen, listen. You ain't gonna live on, you ain't gonna live on
Lucas Underwood: this champagne budget anymore, Cecil.
Lucas Underwood: I'm just
Cecil Bullard: telling. So, so, you know, profit is what business is about. It's about creating personal wealth. And personal wealth is not, it's not I want to bleed society and et cetera. I need this to have a business that is, um. Comfortable, meaning there's money in the bank. I've got three months worth of operating capital to six months worth of operating capital in case the world goes nuts for a while.
Cecil Bullard: Um, I, I need to prepare for my future, which someday I'm gonna sell the place and, and, uh, retire. I don't know what that's gonna look like or what that is, but I know what it's gonna cost. Um, for me to live. Um, I don't, I don't drink champagne. I'm, I'm a more simple guy. I do like a nice steak though, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, yeah. Um, but, but those get
Lucas Underwood: more expensive these days.
Cecil Bullard: Yes, they are a lot more expensive. But, but I just, I. I've worked very hard for a very long time to help a lot of people in this industry. And, and is it, is it because Cecil loves it? Yeah. We don't, I had somebody say, um, everybody does something.
Cecil Bullard: Every, everybody's reason is a selfish reason to, you know, for whatever you do. And I said that that's not true. And, but it, but if you think about like Mother Teresa, right? She went to Calcutta. You know, um, sacrificed her entire life for other people. Why did she do that? Because it made her feel good. Yeah.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Because it made her closer to her, God, because, you know, but there was something in it for her. If there was nothing in it for her, she wouldn't have done it. Okay. Yeah. And, and we're the same. And so I need profit. And if I don't have enough profit, then every month I'm, I'm going, man, it's only the 24th and I'm outta money and I've got payroll and I've got bills, and I've got utilities.
Cecil Bullard: And, you know, with what's going on with the family business, you know, uh, um, when money's tight, it's, it's a hard way to live. It is okay.
Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir. And,
Cecil Bullard: and I don't mean that I need millions and millions in the bank, but I do need to know that I have the cash flow and that I can buy a steak once a week if that's what I want to do.
Lucas Underwood: Okay.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. So yes, it's, it's about profit and it should be about profit.
Lucas Underwood: Well, Cecil, thank you so much for being here. Thank you for answering these questions. You're a wealth of knowledge, you're a blessing to our industry, uh, and to me personally. So big thanks from me, big thanks from the industry, and I can't wait to do it again.
Lucas Underwood: Thank you, sir. I love you, brother. Love you, brother.
Lucas Underwood: Y'all have a good one. Thank you.

141 - From Technician to Shop Owner: Joshua Langstaff’s Journey with The Institute

141 - From Technician to Shop Owner: Joshua Langstaff’s Journey with The Institute
August 27, 2025 - 00:47:46
 
Show Summary:
Josh Langstaff’s journey from chef to diesel shop owner is one of resilience, grit, and growth. Starting out with a single used service truck, he built Mach 6 in Edmonton through long days, lean operations, and lessons learned the hard way. In this conversation with Wayne Marshall and Jimmy Lea, Josh shares the realities of launching a business on credit cards, the transition from mobile trucks to a full facility, and the financial wake-up call that led him to coaching with The Institute. Together they reflect on the importance of parts and labor margins, building leadership, and creating systems that protect profitability even during tough months. Josh also talks about investing in apprentices, his future expansion plans, and the mindset shift from working harder to working smarter. His story is a powerful example of persistence, strategic coaching, and how the right support can accelerate success.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
Wayne Marshall, Industry Coach
Guest(s):
Josh Langstaff, Managing Director of Mach 6
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:03:25] - Josh shares his early career as a chef and how it inspired a drastic career change.
[00:05:02] - A poor experience with a previous employer gave him the confidence to start his own business.
[00:06:49] - Landing Canadian National Railway as a first big client nearly sank him due to 90-day payment terms.
[00:08:08] - Starting with one beaten-up truck, Josh scaled to three mobile units before moving into a shop.
[00:12:52] - Discovering Cecil Bullard’s training videos led him to The Institute and real profit solutions.
[00:14:15] - The biggest shift came from correcting parts margins and labor utilization.
[00:19:04] - Josh outlines plans for a second shop in Edmonton and future expansion across Canada.
[00:23:26] - Coaching provided strategies that gave the business stability to weather crises like fraud losses.
[00:33:31] - Josh emphasizes apprenticeships as key to solving the technician shortage.
[00:40:27] - His early struggles with credit cards turned into lessons on financial discipline and perseverance.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arbX9C6hnmM
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Hello my friends. It's good to see you. My name is Jimmy Lee. I'm with the Institute. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. So depending on where you are in your journey, we are here to take it to the next level. Joining me today is Wayne Marshall.
Jimmy Lea: Wayne is the CEO of the Institute. He is also the coach of our guests. Wayne. Thank you. Good morning.
Wayne Marshall: Thank you. This is gonna be fun 'cause Josh has got a really great story. It's a little eclectic when you hear and as he will share a little bit of his background and how he got into this industry, some of the things that he has been doing that's got him to where he is today, along with some of his aspirations and goals and ambitions of where he wants to go.
Wayne Marshall: Great things that he's been able to do, great things I know he is gonna be able to share and some of the challenges that he's gone through. We've all gone through, we've all experienced them. So it's gonna be really nice that he can share and know that, hey, you're not alone in this adventure, in this journey.
Wayne Marshall: There's people like Josh out there who have also been experiencing it. So why do it alone when you can learn and listen from others And as I always say, it's better to learn from others and try to recreate from scratch. So this is that opportunity we have, and I see that Josh is now joining us, so this is awesome.
Wayne Marshall: Oh, good. Josh, how are you brother? Good to see you.
Josh Langstaff: Good, Jimmy. Hey, how you doing?
Jimmy Lea: Hey, we're good. Welcome. Thank you for navigating those internet challenges.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, there's always technical difficulties, right?
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. There can be. Technology is great and it's wonderful as long as it works, but when it throws a challenge at us, oh my gosh, it can be challenging.
Josh Langstaff: It only goes wrong when I do it myself.
Jimmy Lea: Right, right. Yeah Wayne was just talking about examples and it made me think of something Wayne that my father has said quite a few times, which is that everyone is a good example. Oh, really? Dad? I thought there were bad examples. No. Everyone is a good example.
Jimmy Lea: Everyone's a good example of what you should do, or everyone's a good example of what you. Shouldn't do words thinking of that. Well, it always rings true.
Wayne Marshall: Well, Josh, thank you again for taking this time and your willingness to share not only with what we've been doing here, but what we can share with our other friends and family and clients who are out there listening to us this morning or maybe in the afternoon, depending on what time zone they're in, but to begin with.
Wayne Marshall: I know you and I have talked a lot and you've shared a lot of your journey that's gotten you to this place. But I would love for everybody to hear a little bit of how you got started, share a little bit about your background what you were doing before. 'cause I think it's a great story, but what you were doing before you decided to get into being a diesel tech that ultimately drove you to having your own shop up there in Edmonton.
Josh Langstaff: For sure. Yeah, so I used to be a chef and it was a good job. I did it for about 10 or 12 years, but the pay wasn't exactly wonderful and the hours and lifestyle left a bit to be desired. So after I was getting to the tail end of that, you know, kind of picked up some bad habits, was running with the wrong people and decided it was time to make a change, figured I would try either mechanic or electrician.
Josh Langstaff: And then I just went out and started handing out resumes. I must have dropped off 300 of them too. To get a call back and I ended up getting called to be a shipper receiver, not even a mechanic. So that was sort of the foot in the door as they say. But after I did that for a bit, got the apprenticeship, which over here we do four years of schooling supported by a company.
Josh Langstaff: So you'll work 10 months and then they give you two months at your post-secondary institution, and you do that four years in a row. But got set up with that, got my ticket, and then went and worked for a small service outfit doing something similar to what we do right now. And this guy was running what might have been.
Josh Langstaff: The worst business on planet Earth. Just customers didn't like 'em. You wouldn't buy products, wouldn't buy filters unless they were on sale. So you'd go to do a service call and you have to tell the customer, we don't have any of this stuff ready. The whole place was a gong show. I kind of inspired me.
Josh Langstaff: I said, well, if this guy can run a business, anybody can run a business. So that's what got me going. And man, was I wrong, but I mean, the inspiration was there.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. So you started and I get everything and I think it's awesome story how you went from being a sous chef to a diesel tech to ultimately running your own shop.
Wayne Marshall: So tell everybody a little bit more. So what year did you start Mach six.
Josh Langstaff: Mach Six. We started in 2017. Yeah. November of 2017.
Wayne Marshall: And in that time period from when you started, what were some of the biggest hurdles that you had to get over to get started from being a tech, working for someone to now being the owner, the guy that has to be responsible for everybody else?
Josh Langstaff: Well, there is a ton of stuff that happens in the backend that you certainly don't know about as a technician. So I realized all of a sudden I had. Inventory to figure out. I had to source stuff. I had cash flow, I had safety that, you know, wasn't being taken care of by me initially. Planning the jobs, fielding the calls, you know, usually you have a service advisor doing that.
Josh Langstaff: But now I was doing that myself. 'cause just a one man show at that point. Figuring out insurance for your trucks, insurance for the business. Man, there was just. You know, one of the first jobs we picked up was for Canadian National Railway. And I thought, wow, I'm so lucky I have this big client, like tons of work.
Josh Langstaff: What a great start to this business. And then I go in and I realize that CN doesn't pay for 90 days, but I've got a hundred units to take care of. I'm buying filters, I'm buying oil. I've got all this stuff. I've got the credit cards maxed out. I'm borrowing money from the girlfriend and at some point she says to me like, what are we gonna do?
Josh Langstaff: You've used my credit card. Your credit card. There's no cash. I think we're gonna get paid in three or four days, so we'll be okay. But that was kinda the gateway to realizing there's a lot more to manage there than just. The repair side of things. There was so much.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. And if I remember right you didn't start in a physical building.
Wayne Marshall: You started in mobile trucks, service trucks going out to do the work. Correct? That's right. Yep. So that, so I know there's a lot of people out there who sometimes think the only way you can start doing what you're doing is you gotta start in a building. I gotta have a shop. But you started, and today you still run mobile trucks, but when you started, did you have one or two trucks before you finally got into a physical facility?
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, so we started off with one truck, which coincidentally enough was also a Canadian national rail truck that had got the hell beat out of it, and I fixed that up on my driveway and got that thing running for about, I think we're only into the truck $15,000. And then. I bought all the tools, threw my old tools in the truck, got the filters, the oil, whatever you needed for the jobs, and just got billing.
Josh Langstaff: Just doing that at the time, I mean, we were way, we were undercharging like I was, I think I was charging $90 an hour to guys to show up in a service truck and working 15, 18 hours a day. So we're building lots. Didn't know anything about parts margin, so probably wasn't helping myself there. But we ended up with three trucks before before moving to the actual shop, and at that point it was all outta my garage and I said.
Josh Langstaff: I got three service trucks parked in the neighborhood. The neighbors are probably gonna lose their marbles here soon. So we should look at a location.
Wayne Marshall: Which I think is very inspirational in the aspect of, 'cause I know we have other clients that's how they're starting. I mean, they're starting out with just mobile.
Wayne Marshall: Service. And as their business started to scale, no different what you've done, they then say, now I'm at a point where let's get a, let's get a shop. Let's have a physical building where people can come and go. And I find that to be really inspirational and I like to share, and I've shared your story before, I've told you this as we've talked on coaching because.
Wayne Marshall: It inspires others to say, there's many ways to bootstrap this and to start small scale it. You don't have to go big. 'cause, remind me again, or for everybody else also out here. How many years did you do that with the mobile before you finally went to a physical building?
Josh Langstaff: Oh gee, it was only two or three.
Josh Langstaff: And actually we were making, I mean, we were making very good money run and lean like that. Because we had, you know, no shop space we were paying for, we were buying the trucks fairly economically, and it was just me and another guy at the time. I think we picked up a third and just a lady in the office helping us.
Josh Langstaff: So costs were really low. And then you get the shop and we need more people, we need a parts guy. We had a spike in cost there. So yeah, there's a bit of a runway where you're. You're making the same profit as you were run and lean with five extra guys, or you know, more staff, big shop. So, I mean, there's pros and cons to both
Wayne Marshall: sides.
Wayne Marshall: So as you began to scale and as you started to get bigger, you now have a facility, a shop with multiple bays. You're still running the service trucks, so you're still doing the mobile. I know there got to a point and we talked about it, and you started to look for some of those outside resources and assistance.
Wayne Marshall: So as you started to look. What got you and what got you to the institute? Was there something that you saw, read an article? Did you go to a seminar? Tell us a little bit about how you got in and connected with us here at the institute.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, so I. We had a few years that weren't very profitable, and I knew I had, you know, I had a problem going on with the business, but I wasn't entirely sure what it was.
Josh Langstaff: I mean, we're not making enough money. That was the problem. But what was causing it, I guess? And, I started trying to figure out what industry standard margins were for a setup such as ourself and didn't really know who I could ask that to. Didn't know a ton of shop owners or anything like that.
Josh Langstaff: You know, anyone in our area, if we ask them it's gonna be competition probably so.
Josh Langstaff: That's not you know, they're not always willing to share the info and someone who picks up at another shop is generally gonna be a service manager and they might not know all that info. But I started Googling it, looking around, found a few videos.
Josh Langstaff: One of them happened to be Cecil, and he was talking about getting to net 20% profit and what your margins should be. And I was looking at it thinking, well, it's automotive, but it can't be that different. So watched his video thought, wow, this is a pretty smart guy. And then I watched a few more videos and said, okay.
Josh Langstaff: This could be a good thing here, like a lot of wisdom popping out at me. So then I just ended up calling and asking you guys, do you do heavy duty as well as automotive? And it was funny, the conversation sort of went well. Let me see. I think I actually got a check on this. I'll call you back and I think whoever I talked to at the time must have talked to Cecil and then called me back.
Josh Langstaff: And that was sort of the beginning of it all. And yeah, learned a lot. You guys had a lot of good info, answered all my questions, and you know, we started being more profitable.
Wayne Marshall: So I know I was the lucky. I guess I drew the long straw. Short straw, but you and I got to work together. Straw. Yeah, I got the straw.
Wayne Marshall: And you and I got to start working together right outta the box. And I remember I. And in prep for today, I even went back and I read some of my early notes from some of our very first calls and some of the challenges and some of the things that we had to do. When you think back and you just talked about what you were needing to do for the business and some of the struggles and why we ended up getting connected as we've done, what was the best advice?
Wayne Marshall: What was the best thing that we were able to give you that got us started on the right direction with where we are today?
Josh Langstaff: Honestly go after parts margins. I think we were hurting ourselves worse there than anywhere else. I mean, on the service side of things, we had a lot of stuff figured out and that's what I did before, you know, running the shop.
Josh Langstaff: So I knew how that side worked. But yeah, that followed by just making sure we get our labor margins and the efficiencies and, you know, the utilizations you need.
Wayne Marshall: I would agree. That was the very first thing when I looked at the very early financial statements and we were looking at some of the different metrics.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, there was no question. We did change your labor rate. Some We fine tuned, updated your parts markup matrix, which immediately. Started to, within 60 days, we were starting to see some great results and movement forward. Now obviously we've spent a lot more time and we've taken deeper dives into the nuances of the business that has now make it more perpetual, I guess, and it just kind of takes care of itself and it's like I, you know, I've already complimented you. I mean, we looked at one of your p and Ls and yeah, there were some things that needed to be corrected, and I asked you, I go, well, Josh, tell me, what do you think we need to do here? It was like, I don't even know why we were talking that day. You answered everything that needed to be done.
Wayne Marshall: You already got it all figured out after the six months of working together that I thought it was awesome. You had the answers, you know what we need to do. And then it's a matter of going in and fine tuning again and continuing to work on those different fine, you know, smaller detail things that makes a difference to the bottom line and moves it.
Wayne Marshall: One of the other things though, I know. Which we're happy to have you involved in is that as we started out on one-on-one coaching, you've also found and taken advantage of some other of the services and other things that we're doing here at the institute. Talk a little bit about some of the other things that you have gained out of, 'cause I know you've attended some of our different events and you're also involved in some of our other programs.
Wayne Marshall: So just tell me what's been happening with that and how you're taking advantage and what it's doing for you.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, well you got the I mean that learning dashboard on the website's. Awesome. There's lots of good info there that you can just self-study whenever you feel like it and broaden your horizons.
Josh Langstaff: But I went to the, I went to the 2025 summit. That was great. Met a ton of people. There was like good vendors there that we've actually utilized a few of now, and lots of good knowledge being shared. Lots of good contacts in general. Like there's still people I'm calling with questions and we're sharing info, other shop owners.
Josh Langstaff: So that was great. Dabbled in the m and a thing a bit and just kind of got the introduction to that, seeing what it was all about. So that seems like a great opportunity of, you know, once we get this shop running perfectly the way we want it to, then you can start looking at other opportunities buying other shops.
Josh Langstaff: Expand the brand. So that looks pretty good starting GPG soon as you know. And yeah, that seems like a good group of guys. I'm not sure entirely what it's gonna be, but you know, seems like they're gonna keep me honest.
Wayne Marshall: Well, the one thing I would, the one thing I would say to all of it is.
Wayne Marshall: And thank you for the compliment of our other clients and other people who are part of the family here at the institute, because just as you've reached out to them I've know I've put you in touch with some of our other folks and you've helped them on the other side. So that's what makes this industry better.
Wayne Marshall: That's what really grows this, that's what I get the most excited about. Of working here and being part of the institute. It's not what we just do for Josh, but it's what else we're doing for others and things that you're even able to help them with. So being able to be part of that family and network back and forth and share like we do and like you have done.
Wayne Marshall: Thank you, because just as you've benefited from it, you're paying it forward also. And that's what's gonna continue to make us successful, and it's gonna continue to make the industry better, which is part of our, you know, the virtues or mottos that we wanna live by, is to create a better industry. So you talked a little bit about m and a.
Wayne Marshall: Talk a little bit about where you're looking, what's next? What do you think the next big thing is for Josh and Mach? Six?
Josh Langstaff: Is the limit, but yeah, like we wanna open a second shop here in Edmonton in the next six months. We just hired an operations manager about a month ago and he's doing good. So we wanna give him some time to get his feet wet here.
Josh Langstaff: And then if all goes well, put our second shop pilot program into play here. I guess stress, test that and see what goes wrong and figure that out. And then if we can get a handle on two, then start expanding out east and west here in Canada.
Wayne Marshall: Do you think as you look, 'cause we've talked and we've put together kind of a big picture draft of that business plan.
Wayne Marshall: Do you think it's better or are you looking to buy existing, or is your preference maybe to start from ground up and make it what you want it to be? Do you have a preference here?
Josh Langstaff: I have a preference to buy an existing business, but I don't know if we'll have the. The opportunity of available shops for that.
Josh Langstaff: You know, looking around town currently most of the people I've talked to are investigated. They have a succession plan, they wanna stay in their business or you know, the ones that are potentially available don't seem like good options. So it's kinda slim pickings in the acquisition department.
Josh Langstaff: Might have to just, you know, build from the ground up for a few. And wait for that
Wayne Marshall: opportunity. Right. I know you came and you mentioned earlier about attending being part of the m and a group that we had here about two months plus ago. Was that really helpful for you as you've looked at this, when you look at scaling and as you've gone to approach some of those existing businesses?
Josh Langstaff: Definitely even. I mean, I went to just kind of an introductory, this is what the M and a program will entail. So not even, you know, you're just getting some basic info. And there was a ton of info, like a ton, two days worth of info that gave me all kinds of. I don't know, stuff I needed to just plan the next steps.
Josh Langstaff: So talking to a few lawyers in town, making sure I got the right legal guys in our corner. When we go to do this, talking to some accountants that I've experienced with this, just kind of putting together a timeline for it, what it's gonna cost, who we have to hire, what it looks like. There's a lot of questions to answer if you wanna do it.
Josh Langstaff: So just right. Just being made aware of those questions was was a pretty good experience. A lot
Wayne Marshall: helped. Yeah, no, I know. You and I taught, we've talked a lot extensively of having the right professional advisors. And not that there aren't many good accountants or attorneys out there, but like anything else, some have a niche.
Wayne Marshall: Just like in our industry, there are those who specialize in this or this. Just like we get in some of those professional services. So yeah, I mean, finding those people, getting them into your corner so they're there for reference as needed. Along with, and thank you for talking a little bit about the m and a program, we also do, but it is, it's a lot of good foundational information that gives us those tools needed so when the time comes or the opportunity presents itself.
Wayne Marshall: That you do it efficiently. 'cause you know, attorneys and you know, and other professional services can get really expensive fast. So having that foundation and knowing what questions to ask and how to address. It really does make a difference and puts you in the best position for success. So yeah. As you look back now, so you're, you know, like I said, you're eight years in Give Fast approach in your eight year anniversary of when you started in 2017, in November.
Wayne Marshall: As you look back, if you could share a few pieces of advice with somebody. What do you wish you knew sooner as a business owner that you would share with others? Starting out? Get
Josh Langstaff: help. I wish I knew so many things sooner, but the biggest one was I'm, I was always very much, if you put your mind to it, you can just do it.
Josh Langstaff: You don't need any help. If you just get after it, like you can make it happen, which I still believe you can, but man, getting some good advice from someone who's already been there before can really grease the wheels and speed up that process.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, I know and I've had the privilege, and not to go into your private details of, but I know you're still on pace to have one of, if not the best year in the history of the company this year.
Wayne Marshall: And I also know that with that. We've been able to do a lot of great things together that is allowing you to also have one of your best profit years, if not the best profit years also. So, and I know that's not because of what we've done, it's because of what you have done and, you know, we can share and we can coach, but at the end of the day.
Wayne Marshall: It comes down to you. I mean, it comes down to what you're gonna do. So with that, talk a little bit about how much has this helped and what has transpired in your growth? Not only personally, but professionally through this process of the last seven, eight months of us working together.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, big a big part of it is just.
Josh Langstaff: As we develop like these strategies and improve margins and stuff, you know, if we have a bad month in service and parts isn't sinking the ship, we still end up with an okay month, you know? So defensively like we're in a lot better position. Having all that extra profit over the year, you know, things come up around a big shop like this and I mean, we had that incident of credit card fraud there the one month, which was I think a $20,000.
Josh Langstaff: Credit card fraud. And that would've, I mean, that would've been such a tough blow to us back when things were tight, you know, margins weren't as good. So, you know, we could weather that storm, develop new procedures. So just doing all this, giving us the staying power, you know, to. To survive a few of these issues that come up in business.
Josh Langstaff: That's a big one. And then a lot of leadership and just kinda how to give people the freedom they need and make sure that you're assigning them their tasks and they want to do them and they know clearly what they are. So you can follow up and say, you know, you understood this, what happened here?
Josh Langstaff: They get coached, sort of like you were coaching me, right? They start being the one that says, yes, I know this, and this happened. Next month we'll have a better month. But like I can see where we went wrong. It's accountability.
Wayne Marshall: I know. Yeah. We talk about that a lot. You and I. Yeah, no it is, and I can see the difference it's making in you as a leader and a manager of the company and how it is trickling down.
Wayne Marshall: Because I do know you've got some of your other staff involved with our advisor program and I listened to those who are working with, who are saying great things. I mean, their growth and their understanding. And how that's going to, and only continue to create that alignment of what your culture is and what you're trying to get done.
Wayne Marshall: That the bar of expectation is being set for people and they understand where they gotta rise up to. And it all makes a difference 'cause you got everybody really pulling in the same direction now. And even with your new GM that you've hired. Yeah. Having the opportunity to meet and visit with him also.
Wayne Marshall: I compliment you. You've done some yeoman's work in these last seven, eight months to put you in a position that you're in, so. Good job. Thank you. As we think about all this, and I'm thinking now of all the things you've learned, and it comes back to what advice you would share. I mean, if there are three or more key things that you try to do every week or every other week that keeps you focused and grounded on what those key metrics are or key things that drives your business.
Wayne Marshall: What would those be? What would you share with the rest of the people?
Josh Langstaff: Well definitely control your costs. That's a big one. You know, you can make all the profit you want or all the revenue you want, but if you spend it all, you know, you're gonna have a problem. Definitely. The Outlook calendar or whatever you use is your best friend because as things start getting busier and busier, you know, you're just gonna lose track of everything if you don't have a way to keep that schedule going and make sure you're making your meetings and not disappointing people.
Josh Langstaff: That's a pretty important one. And then really just day to day the basics, you know, every day, making sure. The efficiency is good. Checking on the utilization, checking that customers are getting the calls back and reauthorizing work if we have it. You know, there's a few small things that if you just do 'em all the time, you can prevent giving away tens of thousands of dollars a month in service related work that you didn't charge for.
Wayne Marshall: Right, right. Yeah. Keeping it simple as they say, and yeah, it sounds so easy. In some ways it is, but it isn't it's about focus and discipline and the diligence. To do it, as you just said, to keep doing it on a regular basis because it's easy to let one week turn into two or three, and then all of a sudden you look at certain KPIs or metrics and you're going, oh, didn't know that happened, or, we gotta fix this.
Wayne Marshall: And next thing you know, you've lost or left money on the table. That we just didn't need to leave on the table. So, that's the
Josh Langstaff: death of a thousand cuts.
Wayne Marshall: Death of a thousand cuts is very true. You pretty much covered a lot of the questions, Jimmy. I don't know, has anybody offered up a question and from out in the internet land or do you have something.
Wayne Marshall: Oh, man I, yes,
Jimmy Lea: I have questions. Josh, thank you so much. I appreciate your story. Appreciate where you've come from and what you're doing. My question for you is here we are in automotive repair, automotive service, coaching and training business. How similar is it to the diesel?
Josh Langstaff: Very similar.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah. Some of the margins are a little different, but I mean, it's all nuts and bolts, right?
Jimmy Lea: Right. It's nuts and bolts. It's services, it's filters, it's fluids. It's very similar. It's just happens to be a diesel truck, not a gas burner.
Josh Langstaff: Yep. I think automotive has a better handle on, customer service and communication, though as heavy duty, we're used to dealing primarily with fleets and like business to business sort of things.
Josh Langstaff: And when you're dealing with the general public instead of that, I just feel like you have so many more people interacting with you and they expect a certain level of service, and it seems to be higher than what fleets expect.
Jimmy Lea: Yes I would agree with you. Are you expanding from fleets into a more broad range passenger vehicle?
Jimmy Lea: Guys with big trucks you're taking care of their big trucks or girls with big trucks, you're taking care of their big diesel trucks.
Josh Langstaff: We do a bit of that, but primarily on the fleet side. So if you're bringing us your construction equipment, but you also have a fleet of pickup trucks, we'll throw it in there as added value so you can call one, one location.
Josh Langstaff: Oh wow. But I mean, the biggest thing we noticed with that is just the software is available to the fleets. Like we're moving into using protractor now, and the stuff it can do on the CRM side is just. Blows what we're currently using outta the water, so
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Texting your clients, texting your customers, sending them digital inspections.
Jimmy Lea: Are you doing DDIs yet?
Josh Langstaff: We're just setting it up actually. Yeah, that's gonna be with AutoVitals. So we already do something similar, but it doesn't have the really nice format and the pictures of everything and yeah, just that goes such a long ways, especially when you're explaining the work to people.
Josh Langstaff: Why they gotta do it. Some fleet managers aren't actually mechanically, like they don't have a background like that. They're, they could be an accountant or something. So
Jimmy Lea: yeah, but even an accountant knows items on a vehicle that are worn, torn, freight, or broken. They can see that. And if you show it, circle it, point arrows to it, say, Hey, this is the problem area right here.
Jimmy Lea: They're educated and because they're educated, I think they make better decisions that really help to keep the vehicles safe on the road, whether it's a fleet vehicle or a personal vehicle.
Josh Langstaff: Definitely. I feel like when people don't get a good explanation, that's when they start feeling like maybe they're getting taken advantage of or they get a little less trustworthy because, I mean, our industry doesn't have the best reputation to begin with.
Jimmy Lea: What. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, so I have a question for you, Josh. If you had a magic wand, a unicorn horn, whatever it may be, that magic wand that you could wave, what would you change about the industry?
Josh Langstaff: I would go back 20 years in time and tell all the kids that we told to get degrees instead of trades tickets, to get trades tickets.
Josh Langstaff: So we actually have some journeymen.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, so true. Everybody needs tax. Everybody needs, yeah. Tax. That's, there's a lot of people
Josh Langstaff: moving into it.
Wayne Marshall: Yes. Now there
Josh Langstaff: is.
Wayne Marshall: Yes. Yes. Talk talk real quick, Josh, because I know because you're in Canada, they do have a tech training program and there's some compensation reimbursement, and as a company you're embracing some of that with the local entities and the government.
Wayne Marshall: Talk a little bit about the program and what you're doing and giving back to the industry that way.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, so there's a few different programs they do. The young one. So they'll have something called a registered apprentice program, which is kids from high school. They want to become a tradesman of some sort.
Josh Langstaff: So they'll get credit towards their first year of the apprenticeship here, which is what's your guys' training? A SE, is that correct?
Wayne Marshall: Yes.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah. So we have four years. It's kind of run by the government and structured by the government with input from private. Private operators, but they'll get credit towards their first year of that.
Josh Langstaff: And then when they start in the private sector or at a shop, you know, there'll be a second year instead of starting from scratch and already have a little experience. So companies such as ours can get approached by, you know, facilitators for this, saying, Hey, we have a bunch of students who want to get into the trade.
Josh Langstaff: They're 17, 18 years old, still in school. They can come in here, work for us for I think minimum wage is what they start 'em at, and then the government gives you a grant towards that as well, cutting them down by 20%, 25% of that wage. So that's a good opportunity. I mean, you don't you don't make any money off these kids or anything like that.
Josh Langstaff: It's strictly to invest in the future for both you and them. Right? Because even at. Let's say $12 an hour. They are, they're breaking some things.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, they break. Yeah. Yeah. They'll probably break things, but hopefully you can get 'em set up to where even at $12 an hour they're doing some mobile oil filters or some breaks or something that really helps them feel like they're a contributing factor.
Jimmy Lea: I've talked to a few other automotive service industry shops. That brought in an apprentice and just from day one they, they were working half a day and they're at school half a day. So on that half day that they're working, they're still getting 4, 5, 6 hours out of these apprentice. They've got a mentor that's watching over them and helping them.
Jimmy Lea: Is that similar to what you're doing in Canada there, Josh?
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, it's very similar. We've we've talked with like the apprenticeship board here and some of the secondary schooling providers and also some other companies running these guys. So we've tried to build our own formal training program for them.
Josh Langstaff: That way we can document everything and make sure it's structured, but at the same time, you know, just getting these kids early like this, yeah, we have to put in more effort to train them, but. When you get guys from other shops, they've already picked up a lot of these bad habits. And if we're talking about being the top one or 5% of the industry here, then why am I asking the other 95% to train my guys when I want 'em?
Josh Langstaff: Train like the top one or 5%. Yep. To train 'em here?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, grow 'em in house. That's what you're gonna do. You currently have
Wayne Marshall: two or three? I think you had two or three you said in the program, correct. Or where are you at? We got
Josh Langstaff: two. We got two right now. Yeah. And then we've got a whole shop full of apprentices in the actual, like our a SE program.
Josh Langstaff: So right now we're trying to find another journeyman. And that's really the hardest part right now is finding these ticketed guys because we got, we've got apprentices and young kids banging on the door constantly wanting to learn. We just, you know, don't have enough guys to train them.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. It does take a certain mindset for a good trainer to step up and be a trainer.
Jimmy Lea: Your best salesman doesn't make the best sales manager. Your best technician doesn't make a tech trainer either.
Josh Langstaff: Well, they only have so much capacity too. Like if you wanna train them right, maybe you can take on two apprentices and still do your day job.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's phenomenal. That's phenomenal.
Jimmy Lea: Josh your journey is amazing. It's awesome. Congratulations. I love hearing where you've come from and where you're going. It is just so inspiring. And you know, we've got the a hundred thousand net club, the 200,000 net profit club, the 300,000 net profit club, 400, $701 million net profit club. I hope to see you in there.
Josh Langstaff: Yep. I should be in there somewhere, but I was hoping to be a lot farther by now.
Wayne Marshall: Well, you've got the right, you've made great strides. You've made great strides, but I love that you're driven the way you are. This is what makes it fun.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it is. That's what makes it fun. It is fun and you know, we can coach, we can train, we can teach as much as we want.
Jimmy Lea: But are you going to implement it? And Josh, you have not only implemented it, you've expected and wanted more. And the teacher is as prepared as the student is willing to learn. So the more you're coming back saying, okay, I did all these things. I did everything you said. Now what's next? Give me a longer list because I'm ready.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Yeah, there's always
Josh Langstaff: more to do.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah, there is. So, quick questions. I wanna circle back to you and your girlfriend. Your credit cards are maxed out. You're getting net 90 from Canada. Is everybody paid off now? Are you good? Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Josh Langstaff: Everybody was paid off about four or five days after that conversation, but man, it was stressful.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, well, the real beauty of it is girlfriend is now wife with two kids, and a lot of other great things going on.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, congratulations brother. That's awesome. So she was a keeper. We
Wayne Marshall: decided to keep her around. She was a
Josh Langstaff: keeper after that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, for sure.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, I mean, she was probably pretty stressed out there too.
Josh Langstaff: 'cause takes a lot of trust to let someone use your credit card for $20,000 when you know, that's all your $20,000.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And it's all tied up. It's all tied up right there. I just applaud you for being able to stretch it, make it work, make it happen. Persist four or five days, you got the paycheck and things were paid off.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations, Josh. That is phenomenal. Thank you. Thank you.
Josh Langstaff: And try to avoid running your business on a credit card.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah, that's true. More words of advice, man. We've gotten so many words of advice. Yeah. Don't run your business on a credit card.
Jimmy Lea: That interest is Steve. Yeah, it sure is. Sure is.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Love it. I love it as well. Wayne, thank you very much. Appreciate the interview with Josh. Josh, thank you very much for the interview with Wayne. Really appreciate it. Yes. Let's land this plane, Wayne, with your last bit of advice. You've now got the magic wand. What would you change in the industry
Josh Langstaff: besides the going back in time for technicians?
Josh Langstaff: I think I would also change just how we're training people and. Bring it up to more modern standards. I know that here, the education being all government regulated and stuff is a little dated by the time the apprentices get in there,
Jimmy Lea: so Oh, wow.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Excellent. Yeah. Wayne, final thing I would share, every time we end up talking, I'll ask questions to Josh or other of our coaching clients, and I'll say, so as you look at this now.
Wayne Marshall: You knew three months ago, six months ago, you should have done X, Y, or Z. And the one thing that Josh has already admitted to me and others admit is, you know what? I should have done what I'm doing today. Earlier. We all know it's about, you know, it again, it making those hard calls, making those hard decisions because like Josh knows.
Wayne Marshall: It. It's challenging and living off a credit card to start your business. I mean, people have done it before, but it's hard. So we all know what we need to do. Just go back and look and tell yourself as you look back. You know what? Take advantage of it. Do it when you can. You know what you need to do. Put your words into action because we keep saying, tomorrow I'm gonna do it, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this tomorrow.
Wayne Marshall: Never gets here. Gotta work on today. And you gotta come up with something and just, even if it's a little thing, do the little thing. And that's why I like what we talked about earlier and what Josh said about stay with the basics. If we stay focused and we do those things and we do it with consistency, excuse me, we will.
Wayne Marshall: Have success. So Josh, thank you. Much love working with you. We're gonna continue to build on this 'cause they're better and bigger days in front. And yes, as he sat at the summit, I remember you told me then at the big awards dinner and they're giving out awards for people at this number and net, and you said.
Wayne Marshall: I'm gonna be there. I'm gonna hit this and I'm gonna hit that. And you're doing it. Yeah. You're not everywhere you want to be, but I'm driven just like you are. But you're doing it and you're gonna get into that club 'cause you're already there and be on, you'll be one of those top guys. You're on track.
Josh Langstaff: It's also a sprint, not a marathon. So just keep going. Some days
Wayne Marshall: it's, some days it's,
Josh Langstaff: or sorry, a marathon, not a sprint.
Wayne Marshall: Yeah. Just flipped out a little bit.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. Some days it's a
Wayne Marshall: sprint though, too. Some days. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Josh you spoke about something here a minute ago. You thought that if you just tuck your head down and go to work and just work, then it will work itself out.
Jimmy Lea: And that doesn't always happen. It doesn't always happen that way because you may be building a trail and knocking down rainforest and you may be going this direction, building a highway, and you're making good headway. And then some of the time here comes a coach that says, Hey, you know what you're going the wrong way.
Jimmy Lea: You, you're supposed to be going that way. Oh, but we're making great headway. We're getting so much done. But you're going the wrong way. We need to go that way. You hired a coach, you hired a trainer, you hired somebody that is gonna be able to look at that work and say, okay, you work really well, but let's go this way.
Josh Langstaff: Yeah, let's channel that energy in the right direction.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, for sure. Josh, congratulations. Thank you very much, Wayne. Thank you very much. Appreciate you guys being here, and those of you who are watching this on the recording or watching live, if any of this has resonated with you as, oh my gosh.
Jimmy Lea: My shop is in this situation. I have these area areas I want to improve. I have these areas I need to look at. I'm maxed out on my credit cards. I'm maxed out on everything, but I'm not making the headway that I wanna make. You need a coach. Look at every professional athlete. They all have coaches. In fact, they have multiple coaches.
Jimmy Lea: So if you are in this industry, whether you're working on gas vehicles electric vehicles, diesel vehicles, any vehicle that is involved in transportation, come check out the institute. Check out what we're doing here. 'cause it's awesome. It's amazing. It's making a difference in so many different people's lives.
Jimmy Lea: Our motto is better business, better life, better industry. That's what we're here to help you do as well. Create a better business for you. It'll change your life. It'll change your spouse's life. It'll change your partner's life. It'll change your employee's life. As we all lock arms together, we're gonna help elevate and build a better industry for everybody.
Jimmy Lea: My name is Jimmy Lee with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. Excited to be here with you today. I hope you learn something today. What nuggets did you take from this conversation? Let me know. Reach out. Love to talk to you real soon. Thank you. See you next week.
 
 

140 - From Two Bays to TrueCare: David Long’s Journey to Building a Thriving Auto Repair Business

140 - From Two Bays to TrueCare: David Long’s Journey to Building a Thriving Auto Repair Business
August 22, 2025 - 00:27:07
Show Summary:
David Long shares his journey from fixing family cars in a small rural town to owning and growing multiple successful auto repair shops. He reflects on starting in the industry out of necessity, building his first shop in Palo Alto nearly from scratch, and learning the business side through training and mentorship. After selling his first shop, he opened TrueCare in Shingle Springs, California, where he recently expanded into a larger seven-bay facility. David discusses the challenges of finding good employees, the importance of developing managers and technicians, and the lessons he’s learned about renting versus owning property. He also opens up about stress management, the difficulty of industry training, and what keeps him up at night while moving his business into its new permanent home.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
David Long, Owner of TrueCare Automotive
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:47] – David expands his shop from five bays to seven and finds the perfect property by chance.
[00:02:39] – Growing up fixing cars with his dad and neighbor sparked his automotive path.
[00:05:01] – Remembers sneaking out with a 1978 Dodge truck and push-starting cars on hills.
[00:07:37] – Starts career working at his aunt and uncle’s shop, learning diagnostics without internet or modern tools.
[00:11:22] – Mentor encourages David to open his own shop and loans him money to start Dave’s Auto Repair.
[00:12:26] – Runs a highly efficient two-bay shop that nearly hits $1M in annual sales.
[00:14:02] – Opens his second shop, TrueCare, after moving out of the Bay Area.
[00:16:34] – Shares vision of stepping out of daily operations and developing strong managers.
[00:20:26] – Biggest regret: renting for too long instead of buying property for the shop.
[00:22:19] – If given a magic wand, he’d strengthen technician training opportunities industry-wide.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute for Automotive Business Excellence. And you have joined us for the Leading Edge podcast. My guest today is David Long with TrueCare in And you're in California, right, David?
David Long: Yeah. Shingle Springs, California.
Jimmy Lea: Shingle Springs, California. How is the weather in California today? It's about 90. It's not too bad. It's gorgeous. I moved, I just recently moved. And you recently moved? I recently moved from St. George, Utah to Northern Utah. We went from the 100 and teens into the nineties.
Jimmy Lea: I'm thinking it's gorgeous outside. It's so beautiful.
David Long: Oh yeah.
Jimmy Lea: And you just recently moved as well from five base to a seven base shop. Tell us about that.
David Long: Yeah, well I've been looking for a bigger place for years actually. And sometimes universe just pushes you. Had a problem with my landlord at the old place.
David Long: We found out about this place hitting the market. We actually were able to come and look at this building the day that the realtors signed with the seller. And so we were able to get a contract like just a couple days after that, before they ever even advertised it, which is lucky because there's very little inventory out there for automotive.
David Long: Commercial properties, so, oh my
Jimmy Lea: gosh, yes. Congratulations. And David just gave me a little tour around the place. If ever you're in Shingle Springs, California. You definitely wanna go see this shop. It's absolutely gorgeous. I love his waiting room, the woodwork that was done in there. You own a fabulous shop, seven Bays, two outdoor lifts.
Jimmy Lea: Is that correct?
David Long: Five indoor, two outdoor.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. And how many technicians are at the shop? How many service advisors? What does the makeup look like?
David Long: Currently there's just five of us here. We've got a service manager, three technicians, and I'm a floater. We're kind of, we're gonna be expanding our employee inventory soon, once we're more settled in here.
David Long: 'cause we just moved into this building a month and a half ago.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Congratulations. That's awesome. Get your feet on the ground, make sure you're stable. And then start the expansion.
David Long: Yeah, exactly.
Jimmy Lea: Gotta love it. Gotta love it. All right, well let's go back in time if you will. Go back with me. How did you get started in the automotive industry?
Jimmy Lea: That's slower.
David Long: Well, I grew up in a small rural community and our family. We mostly had to fix our own cars except for the many times that they became unfixable. So a lot of cars went through our family over the years growing up. And my next door neighbor down the hill from us was a heavy duty mechanic.
David Long: So he would work on tractors and anything. He would work on anything. So I remember going down there with my dad when I was a little kid and they, he'd be. Asking Dick for advice and I was just looking and learning. And you know, then when it was time for me to go to college, I was thinking, well, I don't have money for college.
David Long: I don't know what I'm gonna do, but I have a knack for working on stuff. So I went to school for automotive technology and that was, let's see, I took my first. Job as a mechanic in 1996.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Okay. Now you talk about all the cars that went through the family. I think our, we fell out of the same tree.
Jimmy Lea: There were a lot of cars that went through the family that, that we would work on as well. What was your first vehicle that you drove that you had to maintain and if the. If the battery died, you had to replace it. If the windshield wipers needed new windshield wipers, you had to replace it. If the starter got a didn't work anymore what was that first vehicle that you worked on?
David Long: Well, I mean, before I had my own first vehicle, of course I would do whatever we could do. I mean, jumping the bat that batteries that were dead. Did you ever push
Jimmy Lea: start?
David Long: Oh yeah. All the cars were stick shifts. Oh yeah. And we did live on a hill. Oh yeah. Matter of fact, when I was, before I had my driver's license, I'd sneak out and steal the truck and I'd just coast it down the hill far enough down that my mom wouldn't be able to hear it start.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. No, I understand. Oh man. So what was the truck that you were? It
David Long: was a 78 Dodge. Would've been a half ton pickup, whatever that was. Had a slant. Six engine.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Nice. Mine was a, my great grandmother's 1952 Chevy Deluxe, Bel Air three on the tree. Three on the tree. And I would park it at school on the downhill.
Jimmy Lea: So after school I could jump in coast, pop it into second, jumpstart it.
David Long: Because it wouldn't start otherwise.
Jimmy Lea: No. 'cause the battery was dead. Oh. And I couldn't afford another battery, so I know, right. That was my solution. And you know, you get creative when the mother of invention is creativity or creativity is the mother of invention, one of the two.
Jimmy Lea: It works that way. So what's one of those defining moments for you in the beginning of your. Working on automotive you've got the neighbor that's doing everything from lawnmowers to diesel trucks and tractors, but what's that defining moment that you go, Ooh, I think this is me.
David Long: Well, honestly, it was more of a decision out of necessity to try to get a job and be able to support myself.
David Long: I don't think working in automotive was ever my. First choice. I mean, it was a choice, but like I probably would've gotten into engineering or something if I had lived somewhere else and had, you know, different resources available,
Jimmy Lea: different opportunities. Yeah, no, I understand that.
David Long: But I mean, looking back on it, I'm really grateful that I made that decision 'cause it's been great.
David Long: Way to interact with the community, I think is probably my favorite part about it Now. So it's just nice helping people. Sometimes we get to save the day.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. And it is good when you can save the day. For sure. There, I'm sure there's been a lot of opportunities for you to save the day for many family vacations, road trips kids going off to college, coming back from college.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. Exactly. Nice. And when you started in the automotive industry you started in 96 you were working for somebody else or did you start your own business right out of the gate?
David Long: No, I worked for my aunt and uncle. They had a shop in Palo Alto. And I moved down there. I basically lived in the shop on a couch.
David Long: For, I don't know, close to a year before I was able to go and find some roommates. But but yeah I just started out at the bottom and I had gone to college, so I knew like a lot of theory about admission controls and. Different, complicated things that surprise, it surprised me that most of the people that worked there didn't know that much.
David Long: And they had tools and experience and they knew how to wrench, but none of 'em were that strong in diagnostic work. And also, remember back then we didn't have like the internet and like there were paper shop manuals. Eventually we got all data, which was a stack of like. 20 discs CD ROMs that were Yes, just for the Asian vehicles that we worked on.
David Long: It wasn't even the domestic or European stuff. Like if you needed this or that. Okay. Put in disc seven and sometimes you'd get partway through reading something, then you need disc eight. And things are a lot better now. Oh yeah. For diagnostic stuff. That things are much, you know, I mean, the first shop was a Honda shop and all of those manuals were.
David Long: Poorly translated from Japanese, so you had to kind of read between the lines in a way. The wiring diagrams were just horrible. I mean, the older guys couldn't even do that. They couldn't see good enough to tell which little line was which. Oh yeah. I don't know if you've ever seen those older wiring diagrams, but they're on paper.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. The black and white ones no color.
David Long: There's black and white, and they'll group like 20 or 30. Just horizontal lions. You'd have to follow it along.
Jimmy Lea: Yes. I remember. And then PHI came along and that helped a tremendous amount.
David Long: Oh yeah. That's fantastic. We use that all the time.
Jimmy Lea: Yep. So that's good.
Jimmy Lea: So you worked for aunt and uncle for how many years? How many years were you there before you struck out on your own?
David Long: Yeah. So let's see. I worked there. Must have been like five or six years. They sold the business to a guy that didn't have any automotive experience. He made me the general manager, but he, it was not managed well from him though.
David Long: It was, there were some issues, so I ended up going with a couple of the other employees to another shop, which was just across the street. And I worked there until 2008 and great guy to work for. He owned the building there in downtown Palo Alto, and he eventually got an offer to sell the building and they wanted to redevelop it, you know, which is what's happened down there or everywhere.
David Long: It's just a lot of you know. 6, 7, 8 story buildings now what used to be a exclusively automotive area that started back in the fifties. But anyway, so when he sold the building, he told me, Hey Dave, you know, I think you're ready to have your own business. So here's the deal. I'm selling the building and I'm closing the shop.
David Long: But if you can figure out a place to move to open your own new shop, and you can have all my customers. I'll loan you all the money that you need. You just gotta tell me how much you need. Yeah. So in 2008, I opened up my first shop in Palo Alto Dave's Auto Repair and owned it for 10 years down there.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations. What was the footprint? What did it look like?
David Long: It was an old gas station that was built in the fifties. Metal shell building. Tiny, two bays. Two bays? Yep. Two bays. Yep. I had hydraulic lifts. Yep. Hydraulic lifts. Yep. I bought one of those little portable outdoor lifts and used that occasionally too.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay.
David Long: Yeah. But yeah, we did really well there, actually, surprisingly, we were. Almost got to a million dollars in sales, like for years
Jimmy Lea: outta two bays. Bro that's awesome.
David Long: We were very efficient. You had to be.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You had to be.
David Long: And when I opened that shop, I had no experience of being a business owner.
David Long: So, you know, I, I did a couple different training programs one with. Management success, maybe if you've heard of them or remember them.
Jimmy Lea: I do. I do their drive now.
David Long: Very intense program that they offered. Not sure. I totally agree with everything that they had going on there, but and then I was with a TI for many years and got a lot out of that.
David Long: Was in a 20 group for a long time. So
Jimmy Lea: nice. What are you in now? Are you in training now with any training companies? No. Okay. Masterminds, business development groups, BNIs, nothing. Nope. Nope. Just David on his own. I
David Long: completely pulled away from all of that stuff, so.
Jimmy Lea: Well, congratulations. It sounds like you've learned a lot along the way.
Jimmy Lea: You've got a tremendous amount of. Technical knowledge. Couple that together with the business knowledge that you now have and you're doing a lot better. And congratulations a month and a half in the new location, which is awesome.
David Long: Yeah. So this is my second business. The first one I sold in 2018.
David Long: This business I opened in 2017 just 'cause I moved out of the Bay Area and where we're living now, it's, we're about between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, if you're familiar with the area.
Jimmy Lea: I am. My brother lives in Cameron Park.
David Long: Oh, okay. Well see Cameron Park and Shingle Springs share the same zip code, so I know
Jimmy Lea: exactly
David Long: where you are.
David Long: Yeah, and we just moved from our shop was in Cameron Park where I opened it. So.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Congratulations. That's awesome. Well, next time I'm out visiting my brother, I'm gonna swing by and we'll say hello.
David Long: Yeah, you should. That'd be awesome.
Jimmy Lea: That would be awesome. So the we, we got the footprint of where you are today and what that looks like.
Jimmy Lea: Where are you gonna be in five years? David? What does that look like as you look down the road, five years, eight years, 10 years, what are you gonna be doing?
David Long: Well, so. I definitely wanna get back to where I was with my other business, which was not involved with the day-to-day operations. That has to be the goal of any auto shop owner or any business owner I would think.
David Long: And I mean, if you're a dentist or something, well you have to work on the teeth. But if you own a shop, you shouldn't be the one working on cars all the time. Love it. And so I'm not there yet. This business. I opened it from scratch. We moved here, we didn't know anybody in the area, and I got my toolbox, rented a space.
David Long: I knew how to, I knew the recipe, just, I was like, I just need to get some people in here, advertise on Google and get reviews. And you know, then it took probably. A couple years before I was able to hire my first employee, and it's just, and now I have an incredible presence in the area. I think we've gotta be the top rated shop, like for a wide radius, very wide.
David Long: So
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah. It sounds like you just went scrappy on it and claw your way to success.
David Long: Pretty much. But yeah, so back to your question of where I wanna be in five years. Yeah. I definitely want to be like have a back office that's kind of detached and spend maybe part-time there and be able to focus more on other stuff, whatever that might be.
David Long: I don't really know. Sure. I mean, I'm just, I had a lot of time before with my old shop and played a lot of golf. I really was thinking about maybe just doing something else too, you know, but I couldn't really put my finger on what that was, so I just decided to open another auto shop. But
Jimmy Lea: there you go.
Jimmy Lea: And eventually you'll get there. You get to the point where you're either a multimillion dollar per location as a single location shop, or maybe you look at expanding the kingdom and you create a bigger footprint for yourself where you have multiple shops doing multimillions and now you just manage the kingdom.
Jimmy Lea: You're not in the day to day.
David Long: Yeah. I've thought about having other shops. It's a possibility. I mean, it's all about having good managers though. I mean, that's what the key is.
Jimmy Lea: So how do you find a good manager, David? How do you develop 'em? Do you find 'em, do you recruit 'em? Do you poach 'em? Do you what?
Jimmy Lea: What? What's a good, I think you have
David Long: to develop 'em. That goes for any good employee, you know. I mean, technicians, I've always had to develop them.
Jimmy Lea: Do you have an program keeping
David Long: develop? Developing 'em and keeping 'em is keeping 'em sometimes the tricky part, but
Jimmy Lea: yeah, my, my father built gas stations in Las Vegas for 28 years or something like that, and he said that he was always developing his competition.
Jimmy Lea: He would invest and train and teach his people. Then they would go out and start a competing business and compete against him. So do you feel like you're compet, you're training your competition?
David Long: I guess it could be. You could look at it that way. I don't know. I never thought of it that way, but that's an interesting concept.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And hopefully you stay friends. You remain friends. You remain com Oh yeah. Is in the business so that you can refer business back and forth with each other and just have a really good relationship for the future.
David Long: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. So what's something that you have learned from the most in the past?
Jimmy Lea: We learn more from our failures than we do our successes. What is one of those defining moments that started out as a failure, but in the end it probably became one of the greatest success stories that you have in your business life cycle, if you will.
David Long: So just related to business alone, you mean? Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. We'll stay out of the personal stuff. Let's just remain in the business realm.
David Long: It's, that's a tough one for me, Jimmy. I mean, honestly, I've been so blessed. I, got the training I needed very early on after opening the first shop. And I feel like there would've been a lot more pain and discomfort if I hadn't done that because I've never had a time where we were slow or where we weren't making money.
David Long: So
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
David Long: I haven't had like a lot of like, I guess. Just renting. I guess that's kind of a failure. I think that, you know, buying a property ought to be the goal for any auto shop owner also. Yeah. But I've only now just now able to do that. So that's after a long, many years of owning a business.
David Long: It's just a, you know, if you were to buy a parcel of land up here, I looked into this last year. I was in escrow on a parcel and got a bunch of bids on building a building. Well, guess what? By the time you're all done, you've got a building that is worth way less than what it costs to create.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
David Long: And I don't I just don't think that's sustainable.
David Long: So
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
David Long: It's just tough to find places, footprints, you know,
Jimmy Lea: it's, yeah
David Long: They're building. What was it like. How many thousands of new homes in Folsom right now? Guess what? They're not building there auto shops,
Jimmy Lea: right?
David Long: That will not happen there.
Jimmy Lea: No. No. And the amount of red tape that you've gotta wage your way through the amount of red tape and scenarios and case studies that you've gotta do just tremendous.
Jimmy Lea: It makes it even more difficult. To try and establish an automotive business in California. What a challenge.
David Long: Yeah. But yeah, I think that'd be like the biggest thing that I wish I could have changed Uhhuh, is to been able to purchase a building for the business to live in sooner. Because all that money you throw away in rent and plus you never know what's gonna happen. You got a good landlord today, tomorrow he dies and it goes to somebody else and they might not be so great.
Jimmy Lea: Right. So, makes it difficult. Very difficult. So if you were to have a magic wand, if you could go, if you could change anything in the industry, what would you change?
David Long: The industry. Big magic wand. Well, it would be great if we had enough flexibility or bandwidth as an industry as a whole to train technicians, I think as one of the biggest things. And, you know, maybe it's different in different areas. There, around here, there's a fair amount of young guys that are interested in being mechanics, but it's a tough, it's a tough job, you know?
David Long: So that'd be my magic wand. I mean, I get kids coming in a few times a year saying, do you can you do apprenticeships? Can I work? I just wanna get my foot in the door. But the thing is we don't, we're not big enough to really have someone take the time to train someone completely from scratch like that.
David Long: Very difficult. It takes a lot of time. And so I think just better, more training. That'd be my magic wand.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. I love it. I love it. That's a great magic wand. That's a great magic wand. So if you were to have the ability to go back to yourself when you were starting, and you've talked a little bit about rent, you've talked a little bit about starting your own business, what advice would you give yourself in starting your business?
Jimmy Lea: It's the same number. It's just x and that two.
David Long: Which would mean doing something differently.
Jimmy Lea: So, or reinforcing something. Just say, go after this quicker, faster, better, stronger.
David Long: Maybe just don't beat yourself up so much. Managing stress better. Definitely could have done that better, you know? Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, no. Stress is a tough one, that's for sure.
Jimmy Lea: That's for sure. Well, David, I am impressed with your story. I'm impressed with your lineage in the industry. You've got a great location. I am definitely coming out to Che Link Springs and gonna come see you next time I go visit my brother there in Cameron Park, so you're probably not too far from his exit.
David Long: Yeah, no, that's a small area up
Jimmy Lea: here. Nice. So, you know, one last question for you. What keeps you up at night today? What keeps you up at night that you think about that is heavy on your mind that is keeping you awake today?
David Long: Well mostly just with the moving the business. We're. We've moved into the building, but we're also still in escrow.
David Long: And there's been a bunch of environmental tests that the SBA wanted done, which were very costly and time consuming. I think we're on our 11th amendment to the purchase agreement and we're about to have a 12th one, probably like today or tomorrow, but we're almost to the finish line. And that's been.
David Long: For the last, since March, what's been keeping me up at night is just moving the business. But I mean, other than that, we have a really solid process and I mean, there isn't any, there isn't really any for the most part, I'd say it's just smooth sailing for us all the time, just because we have such great customers.
David Long: They love us, we love them. We have a great team of people that work here. And yeah just having that stability of not worrying about, well, what's gonna happen if we don't have a place for the business to operate? That's a big one.
Jimmy Lea: Sure. Yeah. That, that would keep me up at night as well. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: Are we still gonna have front doors to open tomorrow? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, David, thank you very much for your time. I appreciate your insight, your influence, and your inspiration here We are in this industry. That's awesome and amazing. We keep the world running.
David Long: Yeah, it's true.
Jimmy Lea: Doors open.
David Long: Yeah. Thanks, Jimmy.
David Long: Hey, I appreciate that. All right. Take care.
Jimmy Lea: Take care.

139 - Don’t Be Afraid: Building an Honest, Family-Driven Auto Repair Business with Scott Repman

138 - What Winning Shops Know: Direct Mail Works Best with the Right Guidance
August 19, 2025 - 00:16:41
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea sits down with Scott Repman of Scott Repman’s Auto and Truck Repair to explore his path from fixing an unreliable high school car to running a multimillion-dollar repair and towing business. Scott’s story highlights the power of persistence, mentorship, and a commitment to honesty and customer service. He shares how paying technicians well, keeping the business family-driven, and focusing on integrity have fueled his success. Along the way, Scott reflects on industry challenges like rising parts costs and outlines his vision of building a lasting legacy for his children. His guiding lesson through it all: “Don’t be afraid.”
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Scott Repman, Owner of Scott Repman’s Auto and Truck Repair
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:42] - Scott shares how a bad first car led him to discover his love for automotive work in high school.
[00:02:22] - At 20 years old, Scott was given the chance to run an independent shop, taking it from $2,000 a week to $130,000 a month.
[00:04:26] - He later managed a 28-bay shop, becoming the largest AAA contractor in the U.S., handling both repair and towing.
[00:06:24] - Starting from a single bay in 2017, Scott has grown his shop into a $2M+ three-bay operation.
[00:07:06] - Customer service, honesty, and paying technicians well are the cornerstones of his success.
[00:08:17] - Scott highlights parts price gouging as one of the industry’s biggest current challenges.
[00:09:39] - His five-year vision is to expand into a 10-bay shop and build a legacy business for his sons.
[00:10:32] - Keeping the business family-run ensures integrity and a unique customer experience.
[00:13:37] - Offering free towing instead of cheap oil changes is one way he adds value for customers.
[00:14:07] - Scott’s advice to his younger self: “Don’t be afraid."  Taking risks and leading with integrity brings success.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. My name is Jimmy Lee, and you are joining the Institute with the Leading Edge podcast, and our guest today is Scott from Scott Reitman's Auto and Truck Repair. Scott, how the heck are you brother?
Jimmy Lea: I'm wonderful. It's good to talk to you this morning and be a part of your show. Yes. Well, thank you very much and in fact, I want to talk about your shop and about your business and what you've done. Specifically like how did you get into the automotive industry because your shop's only been around since 2017.
Jimmy Lea: How did you get launched into this?
Scott Repman: Well, honestly my parents buying me a very bad car in high school is what made me become a mechanic when you were always having to fix your own vehicle and they still offered high school automotive. That's what led me to working on cars. I was fortunate to have a father that was in the mechanical business, not automotive, but in air conditioning, so he taught me great work ethic, work ethics.
Scott Repman: When we finally got a chance to start turning a wrench in high school, I really enjoyed it. I found a love for it, so I stayed very in depth to it. That is awesome. What is your first car? My first car was a 1981 Ford Escort. I'm embarrassed to tell you, but 81 Ford Escort. That's why you had to learn to work on cars if you own that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yeah. You did. Oh, that's awesome. My first car is a 1952 Chevy Deluxe, Bel Air. It was great Grandma's car and I got to drive it.
Scott Repman: Oh, there's nothing wrong with a classic. Oh, that's a good car. That's a lot better than the 81 escort. I did get to learn to drive three on a tree, so that was pretty cool.
Scott Repman: That was very cool. Today, I don't think we could get 10 young men to be able to drive three on a tree.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. So true. My son could do it. I could tell you that.
Scott Repman: That's 'cause you're a good dad and you taught him. I, same with my boys. I've got five boys and they can all drive a stick. They had to learn.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. It's so true. So going back to when you started your shop, you've got a solid foundation, high school, auto shop, what's one of those defining moments that really set up who you are today as a budding business owner?
Scott Repman: When I was 20 years old, I was fortunate to be given a chance by a gentleman named Dan Verdo that owned an independent repair shop in Phoenix, Arizona that butted up next to an kaman transmission.
Scott Repman: So I had the, i, I got the. Just an opportunity that was unreal to be able to be in control of a shop that was growing. We ended up taking it to be one of the largest auto repair independents in the nineties over in North Phoenix. And just grew from there. Took a business that was only doing a couple of thousand dollars a week up to doing about $11,000 a week.
Scott Repman: So that was a major change for that company. And then by the time that I had spent five years with that company, we had 'em up to about 130,000 a month. I always was someone that was dedicated to growing my customer base, making sure they were satisfied and happy. I started as a mechanic, but as people found out and I found out myself, I was very good with people, I was very good with our industry and explaining what needed to take place with people's cars, and that's a success story starting right there.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. It sure is that's awesome. Inspiring that you went from being mechanic to a service advisor. You took a shop from. A few hundred dollars a day to 1.3, 1.4 million a year in a, that is correct time. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. So at 25, did you strike out on your own
Scott Repman: or did you. No, I'd love to share.
Scott Repman: So I, through the industry and time, like you probably know, anytime you've got somebody that's successful at the front counter, you're gonna have plenty of people come look for you. Yeah. So the next person that found me was a gentleman named Scott drag me that owned a Coman transmission and took me to my next level.
Scott Repman: He allowed me to really run his facility with my abilities and my talents. I ended up taking him to the number third rank for kaman transmission between 96 and 99 of for, you know, the whole industry throughout the 50 states. And at that point then the next person that I got to meet was a gentleman named.
Scott Repman: Johnson. There's a lot of good and bad that rolls with that. But at the end of the day, I was able to run a 28 bay shop largest AAA contractor in the United States for both towing and repair. And this is before AAA had their own repair shops. And at $256,000 a month in business and service, and over 2000 calls with towing, it really broadened all my horizons on the business.
Jimmy Lea: Holy mackerel.
Scott Repman: Yes, sir.
Jimmy Lea: Two, you are a $3 million a year business.
Scott Repman: Probably closer to four when it was all said and done. The, being the largest AAA contractor I evolved the towing industry into an amazing product that we still use today at my shop. So having 10 tow trucks at your disposal, I gotta be honest, one of the things that made me successful was giving a little bit away to get a lot.
Scott Repman: We used to average bring in 10 cars a day minimum into that shop. Via a tow truck and anybody in our industry knows a tow truck. Back then they were an average of 900 to $1,100 per car, and today they're closer to two to $3,000 per car because of the cost of auto repair. Wow. So. We wrapped everything I, over time, I took everybody's great ideas and wrapped them into one is what brought me to my own business.
Scott Repman: So I did work for a large multi-company that had sold this last year. And my best friend is actually the vice president ex vice president, and that was Gruels Automotive. They really taught me integrity. I gotta be honest, for a 25, 25 shop company, they had integrity, honesty, the things that really make an auto shop successful.
Scott Repman: And I took that last little tidbit and I opened my own company in 17, actually was on my own me one bay and me running another man's shop to be able to afford to start my own business. 'cause I'm not rich. I had to start from the ground up. So at that point I put enough money together to get a single bay.
Scott Repman: And today I'm proud to say that we're doing a little over $2 million out of a three bay shop. Congratulations. A three bay shop at that three Bays three, so 680,000 a bay. I'll be happy to put my number I, yes sir. And we are hoping that we are fixing to move into a new 10 bay shop that's just a couple of miles down the road and we'll know that answer this week.
Scott Repman: So fingers crossed we're growing to the next location.
Jimmy Lea: Well, congratulations. We'll be praying for you. I hope it all turns out very well for you. 10 bays. If you can do 2 million, 3 million out of a three bay, what are you doing out of a 10 bay, brother? Oh my gosh.
Scott Repman: Customer service. I have to be honest. We don't advertise.
Scott Repman: We definitely have a free Facebook page, but it's word of mouth referrals, honesty, I just can't say that word enough. Honesty, integrity will get you everywhere. People will bring you more work than you could ever handle. I learned in this industry there's so much honest repair. You never have to dig deep to find repair.
Scott Repman: It's all sitting there. You just need to have good mechanics. And I'd like to wrap that in a little bit. You've gotta pay your guys good. I can't lie. My top guy makes 65 an hour and he is worth every penny of it. Every hour that man turns for me. He makes me money. My guys average about 55 hours a week. They're just they're the best the industry offers and they're worth it.
Scott Repman: So getting back to paying your mechanics, the right amount of money has made me successful with less comebacks good customer service, and people that want to deal with my mechanics. I mean, they ask for 'em by name and I it makes me feel special on that.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that sure does. When they know your mechanic by name.
Jimmy Lea: That's a whole nother level of trust in the industry. That's very cool. So, what's one of the biggest challenges that you're facing today?
Scott Repman: Being point blank the way that the parts companies are taking advantage of the tariffs. We are very big into American parts and are always have been into American parts, buying those specific, but we've noticed the price increase on American parts, which should not be taking place.
Scott Repman: Considering how the tariffs work. So I feel like our industry is like many others, the parts companies are seeing where they can gouge. I will use that word because if you look at repair one year ago, two years ago on the same part number, you're just watching it go up. Quality come down, which I'm sure you're very easily aware of, seeing all the recalls, lack of bolts being tightened at manufacturers.
Scott Repman: But tying that back, the biggest issue is that you're having to raise your prices. I'm all for making money, but you've gotta be cost effective for your customers so they can afford the repairs.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. It's so true. Parts is such a intricate part of what we do. It's 50% of every repair order is it's parts and labor.
Jimmy Lea: So labor we can control, but the parts man, yeah, it is a challenge. It is a challenge for sure. So, looking to the future, where would, where do you see yourself in five years? We know this week you're looking at a 10 bay shop, but where does the five year plan look for you, Scott?
Scott Repman: Well, I've been fortunate to have five boys, as I said a little bit earlier ago, and out of those five I grabbed two that really love the industry.
Scott Repman: So my 28-year-old is the manager of our shop. I really deal with the mobile repair and the towing side of our business. And then my oldest, my oldest stepson is one of our mechanics. Where I'm going with that is I wanna build something for them to take over. The next five years is going be to build more foundations so they're more secure and they're better off in a position to continue what is, I believe, our legacy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So that's the impact you're gonna make, is building a very good, solid foundation of an business that the two of them can work together as partners and really take it up to the next level.
Scott Repman: That's correct, along with my wife. I hope to always be here, but you have to think of the future. My wife is the HR and the book bookkeeper.
Scott Repman: She's expanding that to our daughter-in-law. We're keeping it in the family because it gives them a guaranteed future, and it keeps our industry very clean the way we want it. We know when people come into our facility, they're going to get an experience that's unlike anyone they've ever had in the auto industry.
Scott Repman: They're gonna be treated like family better and just more in depth than ever.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. Your wife Lisa is your wife? Yes, sir.
Scott Repman: Yes
Jimmy Lea: sir. Yeah she's doing a great job there, being in the industry. And then partner with you. So to your experience with Ulix, do you think you'll ever expand the kingdom or you just keep it one multimillion dollar, single location?
Scott Repman: Just a couple of locations. I can't see going the GRU style. And I wanna remove that word unfortunately since they got sold out, but it's. I've seen them multi-locations lose their integrity. I'm sorry guys. Anybody out there that hates me on that one? Apologize. But I get more customers out of those large venues of shops more than ever before.
Scott Repman: When you get that large, it's very hard to make sure your customers, number one, it's very hard to make sure they know that their car is just as important as the other ones that are in that shop. Well, when you get into multi-locations, you don't see the happiness at the front counter 'cause they really don't take care of their people like they should.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. You know that does happen. It's culture is a very fickle beast and it's hard to wrangle. It's hard to create. It's hard to tame, but once you've got it in there, man, it just really explodes and goes really well. So if you do expand to a couple locations I've heard it said before that. A single location is like a handbag.
Jimmy Lea: Two locations is like luggage, and three locations is like a trunk.
Scott Repman: You, and I've heard everybody say that three you gotta have. So there might be a third down the road, but two that are close together. 'cause we have so much work right now we're sitting on usually having 40. 50 cars on the lot for repair, which I'm just proud as can be.
Scott Repman: Yeah. But we wanna make those cars, we really can turn 'em over fast. Even with the three bays we have four mechanics. We do heavy duty, so we do work on anything from a Peterbilt down to a chevette. I think that's very unique for our company. And in our net neck of the woods, we're in North Phoenix and very few people offer what we do when it comes to the big trucks.
Scott Repman: Oh yeah. So that's that. That's a really big part of our business that people. It's scary to a lot of the automotive shops, but gasoline and diesel, you almost have to take care of both today if you really want to keep all your customers.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, and it's amazing that you're doing everything from the big semi trucks, the Peter belts, the box trucks, the reefers, all the way down to a Ford Fiesta.
Scott Repman: You got, Hey, I'd love a fiesta. They're easy to work on. But yeah. We do mobile service for the big trucks and little cars. We have the tow truck, which I'll be honest, we give towing away because I'm the driver and it's free of charge almost. Why not? I wanna give my customer a benefit. Instead of giving 'em a cheap oil change, I give 'em a low cost tow whenever they need it, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
Scott Repman: That's important to them. They, I've never had somebody ask for a cheap oil change that lacks good service. 'cause they would rather have the good service than a cheap price.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. It's so true. So if you were able to send yourself a message back to the days when you started your business. What message would you send yourself in those early days of starting your business or maybe even Scott, going back to when you first started turning a wrench as a 20-year-old in the shop?
Scott Repman: Don't be afraid. Literally one statement. Don't be afraid. 'cause the day that I accepted that, which would've been around my 19 to 20 years of age, I've never turned back. I've always gone forward. Every shop I've worked for has made more money than they made before. Every mechanic that's ever worked for me, even being through somebody else's OA ownership, they always make more money.
Scott Repman: You lead 'em to the promised land when you take your people there. They'll follow you to the end of the world. And that just creates, once again, all this is a domino effect to have great customer service and exceptional customers. It all comes together.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love your advice. Don't be afraid.
Jimmy Lea: So, going back to the days of this starting and your advice is don't be afraid. What's one of those risks? That were you to go back, you would take it this time where before you may have been a little bit risk adverse.
Scott Repman: I probably would've actually have just rented a shop my first year instead of a single bay and worked for and run another man's company.
Scott Repman: I'm not against it, but I think if I would've put a little more into my first year, I could have got a bigger shop. But at the end, you don't want to second guess, because if it's a success you end up at, then it may not have been the best move to change anything, if that makes sense. But I wanna say, I guess, you know, going through those times when you're.
Scott Repman: You have no credit worthiness, your business is up and starting. You've gotta go give a hundred percent. We, you know, I personally went out and got accounts, got contracts, become part of the government account system, took on the VA hospital, which we're very proud to say that we work on all their large equipment at the Veterans Administration in Phoenix.
Scott Repman: Things like that make me proud. We took our. Great company and showed them what we had to offer, and in return it just turned it right back to us. So don't be afraid. It turns into you. Just open all your doors.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, amen, brother. Amen. Well, Scott, thank you so much for joining me today. Those of you who can't tell Scott is in one of his tow trucks today joining us from the road.
Jimmy Lea: You are an inspiration for sure. Thank you for not being afraid. Thank you for taking the risk and being honest and providing integrity to our industry, not only for yourself, not only for Lisa, but for your boys and for your team, and growing your kingdom. The impact you're gonna leave is just so invaluable.
Jimmy Lea: It is just inspirational. Thank you very much, Scott. Thank you. I really appreciate it.
Scott Repman: I appreciate your time and this morning was wonderful to talk to you. You have a beautiful, amazing day.
 

138 - What Winning Shops Know: Direct Mail Works Best with the Right Guidance

138 - What Winning Shops Know: Direct Mail Works Best with the Right Guidance
August 13, 2025 - 00:59:56
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea hosts a conversation with Cameron Ritter from Upswell Marketing and shop owner Tom Grover of All Right Automotive & Diesel, focusing on the power of postcards as a marketing tool for auto repair shops. They explore how tangible, personalized mailers create strong connections, and how targeting the right customers, like diesel owners, can dramatically improve results. Tom shares his journey from running a busy shop with no formal marketing to achieving a 47-to-1 ROI through strategic campaigns. Cameron explains the difference between saturation and database mailings, the importance of penetration reports, and tracking returns through address matching and call tracking. Both emphasize the value of consistency, combining “push” (postcards) with “pull” (digital ads), and avoiding the stop-start trap with marketing. The discussion closes with Tom’s lessons learned on refining processes first, then using postcards to grow the right customer base.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Thomas Grover, Owner of All Right Auto Repair
Cameron Ritter, UpSwell Marketing
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:55] - Postcards remain effective because they’re tangible, personal, and can be highly targeted.[00:05:12] - Tom shares his history in automotive and why he initially avoided marketing.[00:10:40] - Targeting diesel owners boosted ARO and attracted the right type of customers.[00:15:33] - Cameron explains saturation vs. database mailings and when to use each.[00:20:48] - Penetration reports reveal where high-value customers are coming from.[00:28:50] - Response to postcards can be immediate, but they often generate business months later.[00:36:22] - Lost customer campaigns can re-engage clients after 6–12 months of inactivity.[00:44:08] - Keeping postcard messaging simple avoids customer confusion and increases results.[00:53:35] - Combining postcards with digital ads creates a more complete marketing strategy.[00:59:20] - Consistency in marketing prevents the “cruise ship” slowdown effect.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Thank you everybody for joining. Glad you are here, my friends, as we have this conversation. Joining us today is Cameron from Upswell, formerly known as Lik Mail. You may know them from their postcard days, way back in the day. And Cameron is here with us representing the, uh, ever-present world, world of marketing and postcards.
Jimmy Lea: Cameron, thank you for joining us. How you doing, brother? Hey, I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, you know, the, the postcard industry is an industry that's never seen a downturn. Why is that? 
Cameron Ritter: I think in the consumer, when you're, when you're marketing to your consumers, right, you're always looking to give them good incentives to come into your shop, and so that's exactly what that does in a proactive way, and it's something that they can touch and feel.
Cameron Ritter: Right. Digital is something that they can just see, but really when you're sending a personalized direct mail piece, it's got their name on it, they it, it feels like them, right? We can really personalize those messages and tailor that to who we're marketing towards. So I think that's why it's never gonna go away 'cause it's so
Jimmy Lea: personal.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true, and postcards are awesome. I love postcards. I, I love postcards because they always get to the address that you have put on the postcard, whether or not that person lives there anymore, and I just moved recently. Right? You know that it gets there, it gets to that person, or it gets to that residence.
Jimmy Lea: Question for our audience. Have you ever had a client come into your shop with somebody else's postcard? Drop that in into the comments. Let me know if you have ever redeemed a coupon for a, a client or a client at your shop and the coupon was not addressed to 'em because the person had moved or maybe you had an old list.
Jimmy Lea: That, that's interesting. Cameron, thank you for being here, brother. I appreciate it. Absolutely. I appreciate the time. Uh, and joining us as well is Tom Grover. Tom from All right Auto Tom. How the heck are you, brother?
Tom Grover: Doing great. Great to be able to be with you today.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How's the weather up there in Boise?
Jimmy Lea: Well, you're in Emett outside of Boise.
Tom Grover: I think yesterday it was 102. Today's only supposed to be about a hundred, so not too bad.
Cameron Ritter: When you say only a hundred, it's hot.
Tom Grover: That is hot. That is
Jimmy Lea: hot. That is hot. I, I, I just moved from St. George, Utah to Northern Utah, and I'm, I'm delighted with these mornings where I wake up and it's 65 degrees outside, and the high today is 94.
Jimmy Lea: I don't know what it is today, but the other day it was a high of 94, and I thought, wow, that's great. I'm, I just, I think I'm gonna go outside and work all day. 94 degrees is, is not that hot when you grow up in Vegas. And 115 is your August. That's true in August. Uh, there's many nights. It does not get below a hundred degrees.
Jimmy Lea: I think there's a good three week stretch in August that that happens. Well, gentlemen. What's that, Tom?
Tom Grover: It's all stay in the air conditioning.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We do that too. We do that too. It's climate controlled. 72 degrees and gorgeous. So, Tom, uh, thanks for joining. I wanna get a little bit of a history before we start about, all right, automotive, how'd you get started?
Jimmy Lea: What, what brought you into the industry? Uh, and then let's jump into some marketing questions.
Tom Grover: You know, I actually started into the industry back when I was. A teenager, I had an uncle that had an auto repair shop. Uh, he always said that he wasn't a mechanic because a mechanic made a living fixing cars and he could never make a living.
Tom Grover: So I was introduced into a shop like that, um, back in teenage years. And uh, and I went from there into a dealership setting and some other things. Tried to get out of the automotive world. I actually turned down a full ride scholarship, uh, to Weaver State in the, uh, management program because I did not want to, uh, be in the automotive program.
Tom Grover: And, uh, I actually found myself going back to it because it was something that I knew and I knew I could make money. So I opened my own shop in, uh, 1997. Just a small one person shop. Well, I had, I had another employee for a little while. Um, and I had some injuries to my body that, uh, the doctors just said, you just can't keep doing this.
Tom Grover: You either gotta grow bigger or get out.
Jimmy Lea: And,
Tom Grover: and at the time, I, I got out and I went back and I finished my, uh, education, got my bachelor's degrees in business and, uh, HR management. Uh. I went into the financial world in, uh, 2007. Um, wrong time to jump into the financial world as the markets were crashing.
Tom Grover: And, and I, yeah, oh man, a couple of years and, uh, said, I'm going back to something I know I can make money in. And, uh, had great opportunity to, um. To open up this shop, uh, in Emmett in 2012. Um, and it's, it's big enough that I can grow and not be doing it myself. I mean, the first little bit, it was me doing everything myself, but I quickly grew it and, uh, have come a long way since that day.
Tom Grover: So I've been in the industry quite a while.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you have, and, and it sounds like a Phoenix story where you started with one that kind of died. You regrew, you rebirthed, and. Uh, after education, you had survived the hardest years in the world, in the financial industry. Oh, seven to 12. Holy cow. That's tough.
Jimmy Lea: And then you decide to jump back into automotive and, and the success you're getting from it now. I, I just love it. At what point in that rebirth, when you came back and, and it was you and somebody else, and, and you were getting things started up again in 20 12, 13, 14, at what point did you look at what you were doing and say, okay.
Jimmy Lea: We've gotta establish a marketing plan.
Tom Grover: You know, I didn't look at marketing plans at all for, not until the last year and a half or so, because oh, I was so busy. Marketing was the farthest from my, from my mind, in all honesty. Um, I was. I was very busy and couldn't keep the work, keep up with the work that I, that I had coming.
Tom Grover: Um, wow. And my biggest struggles were other areas, um, just productivity and trying to get the work out and in a timely manner and things like that. So,
Jimmy Lea: so you, you had that perfect, you had that perfect problem. It was so much word of mouth marketing. It was so successful. Your shop was so busy. Not until a couple years ago did you implement a marketing program.
Jimmy Lea: Correct. Oh my gosh. I mean, Cameron, do you hear that very often?
Cameron Ritter: No, it's, it is pretty hard out there for a lot of shops. Um, you know, a lot of shops have to market, especially in, in, you know, suburban areas, um, where there's a lot of competition. Right. So now you don't hear that too often. No. You really don't.
Cameron Ritter: That's no, the, the main, the main topics I hear are, uh, I don't have enough cars and I don't have enough techs. It's one or the other. Um, so those are the two problems. I'm, I'm always hearing year after year.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Now, when Cameron, when Tom came on with Upswell and, and turned on his postcard program, what were the results?
Jimmy Lea: What did you see from your point of view as you have a, a, a, basically a view of more than one shop, you view all the nation, what did you see happen with Tom?
Cameron Ritter: Yeah, Tom, um, his area is very unique. Um, 'cause when we send out a postcard blast, it, it is immediate return, um, from what we see on our side as far as the analytics.
Cameron Ritter: Uh, just to give you guys an idea, I can pull up in my, in my, uh, screen here, but an, uh, a typical saturation mailing for the automotive industry. Through this is our own database, right? We've been, like you said, Jimmy, we've been doing this a long time. So we've got a pretty substantial database of shops in our system.
Cameron Ritter: And so through all those shops, they're receiving about a 0.8% response rate, which is well above, uh, an average response rate that you would get in the way that if you target differently, right? Um, now Tom here went ahead and did a two and a half percent response rate on his saturation mailings. Um, so it's pretty actually incredible, um, how much more he's doing than, than what the average is.
Cameron Ritter: And a lot of it has to do with area, right? I mean, if you're talking about 0.8% response, I mean, that's a very good response rate in direct mail. Um, but really what you wanna look at is, as far as this stuff goes, is rate of return, right? So a typical rate of return, um, on a saturation mailing would be like an eight to one.
Cameron Ritter: Um, and then database mailings, they, they fluctuate, but all in. Um, and the database ones, I mean, you can get anywhere from 15 to one to a hundred to one. Um, but Tom is, Tom is sitting at like about a 47 to one through all of his postcard marketing efforts. Oh, that's awesome. So, yeah, it's
Jimmy Lea: Cameron. Let's, let's define a couple of terms here so everybody understands.
Jimmy Lea: What's, what's the difference between a database marketing and a saturation marketing?
Cameron Ritter: Right. So database marketing, that's something that we're gonna do, not monthly. Typically it is gonna be more of a, um, quarterly type of endeavor. Can you guys hear me still? Yep. Yep, yep. Oh, okay. Perfect. So yeah, that's gonna be more of like a quarterly type endeavor for us.
Cameron Ritter: Now, a lot of shops, if you've got text messaging, emailing, all that good stuff, that's all good, right? We're just talking about print here. Um, so to give you an example, we'll send out gift cards in the fall, um, getting towards like September back to school. We'll do it in Christmas time as well. Um, rebate checks in the spring.
Cameron Ritter: Holiday cards. There's a multiple, there's multiple products that you can do for. Uh, database mailing. So that's going to your database and that's gonna be either a lost customer mailer, so maybe someone that hasn't been in, in the last, uh, six months or 12 months all the way out to 24 months trying to win those people back.
Cameron Ritter: Um, or it could just be all of your database and your to your top spenders, right? So there's multiple different ways that you can do that. And then saturation mailing is something that, um, Tom has, has done a pretty good bit of. Um, it's where you're basically taking your top performing routes. So for those that don't know a carrier route, if you think of a zip code as a, a pie, a carrier route's just a slice of that pie, right?
Cameron Ritter: And so we're targeting very specific carrier routes in a zip code that fit the demographic that you're looking for, um, and the spin levels that you're looking for, right? We can see all kinds of data on this stuff. Um, and then one, one thing that we forgot to mention here is list mailing. So if you're a diesel shop or if you're a Euro shop, we can go out and find those specific makes and, uh, we can find year ranges.
Cameron Ritter: There's a lot of different stuff that we can do to bring in, uh, those specific customers, right?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So, Tom, when, uh, Tom, when you got started with Upswell and Upswell marketing. Where did you start? What did you go after
Tom Grover: first?
Jimmy Lea: You know,
Tom Grover: our, our first area, we were, we were still busy, but, uh, the customers, we weren't getting our ideal customer.
Tom Grover: One of the things that we had noticed is our diesel customers were more our style of customer. They were willing to spend the money and, uh, do their work. So we said we wanna get a. More diesel customers in here. And so I reached out to Cameron and I says, Hey Cameron, what can I do here in, uh, getting more diesel customers?
Tom Grover: And we reached out and we looked at how many diesel truck owners there were in my area, and we sent a mailing out just to them and. So those that responded were diesel, diesel truck owners, and all of a sudden our diesel work increased and our, our customer that we wanted increased. So, you know, we were really busy with an a RO of, uh, I don't remember exactly what it was at that point, but it was like $450, uh, average repair order, you know, uh, through changes and stuff like that.
Tom Grover: I mean, now we're. Almost a thousand dollars a RO, you know, but it's, it's getting the right customer. So we were really busy, but we didn't have the right customer. And reaching out and trying to pinpoint some of those, um, of the ideal customers is what one of our focus was.
Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. That's awesome. What, what kind of results did you expect that you would get, Tom, as you put out these postcards?
Tom Grover: You know, I, I see postcards all the time in the mail and I just throw 'em away. I think, you know, they're not really that, you know, not that big of a deal. Okay. Cameron says, try it. And I sent 'em out there and, and we did see a lot more response. You know, it's like, okay, we're, we're starting to build and, and bring people in.
Tom Grover: Um, the one thing I, I did want to keep from getting was. The guy that was coming in just for the, the cheap, uh, oil change type of a thing, you know, I, I didn't want him to be out there just, uh, looking for the, for the deal and that was it. Well, and that
Jimmy Lea: goes to your setup with your postcard. What did you do to modify the postcard?
Jimmy Lea: So it's not an oil special, this is an oil service postcard. You, you must have clearly. Demonstrated exhibited the ideas that this is a value to you as a diesel owner. What did you do? What was your message?
Tom Grover: You know, we, we got a few people, 'cause we put a, a, a special on there for an oil change, diesel oil change.
Tom Grover: But the thing we got the most was probably, uh, our added value one, which was, uh,
Cameron Ritter: uh, 15 off, 1 50, 30 off, three 50 and 90 off a thousand.
Tom Grover: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Yep. Wow.
Tom Grover: So it, it kind of helped boost that, you know, and, you know, for a diesel truck it's always over a thousand. So, you know, uh, people were coming in not just for their oil change, but for the, that additional repairs and to get, get a little discount there, but it, it got our name out.
Tom Grover: Uh, we had some of our current customers respond to us and say, I didn't realize you did diesel old. And, and so, oh, that told us, you know, that was a education issue that we were lacking. Uh, we did some changes at that point and added diesel into our name, uh, into our, into a lot of our marketing and stuff like that.
Tom Grover: So people did know that we do diesel, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. I, that's exactly where I was gonna go. What was your current client's feedback? And it sounds like they were opened up to a whole new world of, oh my gosh. I can take my diesel there too. Yeah. Yep. That, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Uh, Blake's got a question that we wanna ask and Tom Cameron, I, one of the two of you, which one wants to answer this one?
Jimmy Lea: How are you calculating that rate of return to get a 47 to one? What are you doing? So that is basically
Cameron Ritter: total revenue over total investment, right? So. Tom has invested X amount of dollars and has generated x amount of dollars in revenue that's gonna give you that, that 40, uh, seven to one. Right? So basically all that's saying is, it's just a fancy term of saying every dollar that Tom gives me, I'll give 'em 47 back.
Jimmy Lea: And so you are, you've been able to isolate this to just the postcard. So this isn't all of his marketing. This is isolation down to just the upswell marketing. That's, so this is
Cameron Ritter: what we do is, uh, what we call address matching, right? So postcards are something that are very hard to track. Um, as a lot of people know that have done postcards, not everyone's gonna bring the postcard in.
Cameron Ritter: Um, so what we do is we say, okay, um, we know that Jimmy received a postcard this month
Jimmy Lea: from,
Cameron Ritter: all right, auto repaired. We know that he came in within the last 45 to 60 days, right? So then we match that address up. And not only that, but we also, uh, have call tracking on there where we can say, oh, he called that number on the postcard, right?
Cameron Ritter: So there's ways that we track what the return is on what we can, what we're able to match up, and then also categorize them, right? So was it a new customer that came in? Um, was it a win back, someone who hadn't been in the last 12 months? Was it a loyal customer from a loyal customer campaign or what we would call a database mailing, right?
Cameron Ritter: Yeah. Or was it a upswell loyal, someone that came in initially from the postcard and has returned for a second and third visit. Right. So we're able to categorize that and what they spent on our, uh, on our dashboard to really show you kind of what the whole picture of what you're looking at. Right.
Cameron Ritter: Because it's all, marketing's all about transparency. And so we want you guys to be able to see really who's coming in and what they're spending. And calculate, you know, your cost per customer, revenue per customer, your rate of return, all this fun stuff that lets you know that your marketing's working.
Cameron Ritter: Right.
Jimmy Lea: That's nice. And, and Tom, to, to what Cameron has just said, people with the postcards, not everybody brings it in. Uh, I The question for you, Tom, but also for our listeners, ha, do you honor the postcard? Coupon promotion. Do you honor that if they don't have it in their hands and are able to give it to you?
Jimmy Lea: Or do you say, oh, you know what, that's great. Uh, when you bring the postcard in, then you can claim the promotion.
Tom Grover: We actually do honor it. Um, and basically one thing that we found is a lot of times they won't bring the postcard in. Yeah. Sometimes they won't even mention the postcard. But part of marketing is, you know, them seeing it and reminding them to do it, you know, and so it, it could have been an existing customer that we had.
Tom Grover: Um, and you know, they sat there and thought, oh, I, I've gotta get my vehicle in and get this service done. And, and then they see the postcard and they go, oh yeah, let me get, go in there and do it. And they'll go on their phone and they may have already had my number in there and call. You know, but, um, so sometimes it may have not have even been directly related to what we said on the postcard as much as it was a reminder.
Tom Grover: Um, and we kind of track that as we, um, Cameron had mentioned there was, uh, geo routes, you know, that, that we went, um,
Jimmy Lea: like neighborhoods that's getting neighborhoods, right?
Tom Grover: Yeah. Yeah. Where are our customers and. One of the things we looked at, we said, okay, on those that are, are where the mailing's going to or where our current customers are, Cameron was able to give me a map and says, okay, here's the area.
Tom Grover: And I looked at it and I said, man, I'm not even getting this new neighborhood with all these new people that are moving into town. I says, we need to do some marketing to that area. And, and so we switched and, and marketed to that area and, and another area it's like, okay, the downtown area. They're, they're lower income.
Tom Grover: They're not spending that much. But this neighborhood out through here that I'm not marketing to, they're, they're a more affluent neighborhood. I want marketing to this area. And so I, I started pinpointing these neighborhoods and said, okay, I want this neighborhood and this one, and this one and this one.
Tom Grover: And we started sending postcards to that. Um, 'cause it's really hard to, you know, send it to all. You know, every possibility in your, in your area, just cost-wise. So you can start in and you just start working through each specific area and market to those that are, that are your customer.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I love that.
Jimmy Lea: You know, and this goes right into John's question, John has a question about how do you determine what's the best approach for those you target and for your marketing? Do you, do you, uh, feel that it should be based on your ideal customer? Uh, a preferred area. They live a targeting brand or model owner, a gas versus diesel.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, John, that's a phenomenal question and yeah. You know, Tom, you, you talk about going to the neighborhoods. Have you ever gone to Cameron and said, Hey, I, I, well, no, you did mention it. You went and said, Hey, I want more diesel customers. So you guys targeted the diesel with cars and trucks, but mostly trucks.
Cameron Ritter: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That, that is a good question. Um, we, I, so really it's a conversation if, if you get started doing direct mail, whether it's with Upswell or whoever you choose to use, it needs to be a conversation between you and that consultant, right? Because we only know what you guys tell us. Um, so if you're, if you're a diesel shop, I'll probably know it 'cause it's in your name.
Cameron Ritter: Um, but I'll still probably ask the question, well, do you want to target diesels? Right? Um, but if you're an auto shop, they just hired a diesel tech. It. Okay. Maybe you want to go after some diesel. So you, if you let me know, then I know that what we can go after and then we'll do a, a, a full evaluation of your shop and really see, you know, how many cars you need, um, to fill up that text time.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So we do a full evaluation of all of that stuff and, and really, uh, all, a lot of it is, you know, on, on the, on the part where you said a preferred area they live, most of your customers are gonna come from right around your shop. And you'll see that, um, if we pull what we call a penetration report, I've got one here.
Cameron Ritter: I don't know. Jimmy, are we able to share screen or
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: At the bottom, click on the, uh, present. Okay. Plus you can share screen. Let's see here.
Cameron Ritter: We will do
Cameron Ritter: this one here. Can you guys see that? Not yet. It's coming up. It's thinking. There it goes. Perfect. So this is Tom's penetration report. And so this is something that we use to identify, uh, where your best customers are, where your best carrier routes are, right? So we're able to see, like, for example, Tom crushes it.
Cameron Ritter: Um, he's got, if we take this first line, for example, here's the zip code carrier out. Um. You know the residential counts here. This is single multifamily, but this is his customer count, right? So he's got 81 customers coming from this single carrier route. So he's, he's dominating, um, penetration percentage.
Cameron Ritter: This, all this is, is market share, right? He's got 11.82% market share of this carrier route. Yeah. Um, we can also see what the average customer spends. So when you're talking about who do we know to target. Well, it's gonna be the routes where you're already having the most success and who is spending money with you, right?
Cameron Ritter: Like Tom said, there's some areas, um, let's find one. Like for here, for example, uh, penetration is not bad here. I mean, you're still getting 5% penetration, but if I had to choose between that route and let's say this route, I'm choosing this one all day, right? They're spending $2,600 and he is already got 53 people coming from there.
Cameron Ritter: Right. Um, so we know that that route is gonna bring new customers once you introduce postcards into it. Um, and then you can see different things like median household income, median home value, net worth. You can see a lot of different stuff here, right? So when you're talking about how do we know who to target on a saturation level, this is it.
Cameron Ritter: And then on like a, uh, on a list mailing level. So that's gonna be your diesels and euros. Um, that is. Really what we're doing is a couple of things. We can pull a radius and find diesels and euros that way, um, which is probably the most common way. Or we can still take your data, run a very similar report to this, but on a zip code level and figure out what your top penetrated zip codes are, and then target those zip codes.
Cameron Ritter: So there's a couple different ways that we can do this. I love
Jimmy Lea: it. And, and Tom, question for you, when you are setting up a, a postcard campaign or you're, you're developing this idea, you're going after a neighborhood, you're going after a vehicle make and model or diesel or gas, how quickly do you see a response from postcards when you send them out?
Tom Grover: You know, sometimes within a week I start seeing them coming in. Um, I mean, I've had some, the, the same day they get the postcard, they pick it up and they make a. Call and set an appointment. So, you know, it's, it's normally fairly soon is when we start to see it. Yeah. But as far as how long does it last?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Tom Grover: We've had people bring 'em in six months later and says, you know, I've had this thing sit in here, will you still honor it? And it's like, well, yeah, I'll still honor it, you know, but that's just telling me, you know what, they saw some value and they stuck it on their refrigerator or on their counter, and they, they kept it there until they needed it.
Tom Grover: And so, yeah. You know, sometimes it is hard to tell what the impact of that mailer is. Um, because they may have sat on it for a long time. We done That's true. Two other mailings since, since the time that, you know, some of these have come in and, and they bring it out. Can I still honor this one? It's like, sure.
Tom Grover: You know, so.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And that's great 'cause it gives you an opportunity. You can either honor it or not. It's your choice. Do you put expiration dates on all of your postcards, Tom?
Tom Grover: Not, not all of 'em, but some of them.
Cameron Ritter: Yeah. A lot of times, uh, we do like limited time only. Yeah. And that, that kind of language leaves it up to the owner to say, you know, no, we're not gonna honor it or we are gonna honor it.
Cameron Ritter: But
Jimmy Lea: yeah. The
Cameron Ritter: thing with expiration dates, now you got me on that, Jimmy. Um, we like to think of expiration dates is that's only hurting you and it's only hurting the customer because once the expiration date hits, the customer can't use that coupon anymore. And that's one less person that's gonna come into your shop.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So you, you want as many at bats as you can if you need car count. Um, and so that's what we're trying to do.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Tom, have you ever, uh, had a situation where you reactivated a client that was lost because of postcards?
Tom Grover: You know, we, we've had a few, uh, I haven't tracked that very much, but, but we have had a few that, you know, it's been a, a while since they've been in and they, they come in.
Tom Grover: So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Uh, Cameron, what do you see in the industry as a lost customer campaign? What, at what point do you consider a client lost? That's a great question. Um,
Cameron Ritter: and it depends on the shop. It, a lot of times we, we take a look at what you're currently doing to retain your customers, right? So like text messaging, uh, emailing, reminders, all that sort of stuff.
Cameron Ritter: And then we say, okay, when does that cut off? Yeah. Um, for a lot of shops, that's six months, right? Some shops it's 12 months. So what we do is we say, okay, at the end of whatever campaign that you have going on, now, we'll start there. So if, if they haven't been, you know, if there's six months from visiting your shop and then you stop putting touch points on 'em, okay, well, we can put touch points on 'em with a postcard, right?
Cameron Ritter: And send that out to them. You know, like I said, roughly quarterly. Um, some shops do it monthly. Um, to, to their lost customer campaigns. Right. 'cause you're just trying to get as many as you can back. Um, right. So that, that's a general answer. But for a lost customer, for us in our system is technically 12 months.
Cameron Ritter: Um, oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So that's what we count as what, what I refer to earlier as a win back, but a lost customer could be up to the shop owner, um, on what they,
Jimmy Lea: they define as a lost customer. Oh, and that's so true, Cameron. I was talking to Kathleen Callahan down in Florida, and she's got a lot of snowbirds that are back and forth.
Jimmy Lea: So for her it's 18 months to 24 months. Yeah. That it, that it actually triggers a lost customer campaign for her versus every other shop. It, it is probably somewhere in that six month, nine month, 12 month on the outside. Right in that realm. That you need to make sure that customer's coming back into your shop.
Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Because if they're not, they, hopefully they're going somewhere else and taking care of the vehicle. Yeah. Hopefully they're into your shop and, and making sure that you got one set of eyes and one set of professionals taking care of your vehicle.
Cameron Ritter: Absolutely. No, for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Um, Tom, to you, Anna, I know that you most recently had the mastermind group come together to your shop to give you a lot of feedback on your shop from.
Jimmy Lea: The street signs to the parking lot, the lobby, the front counter, the, the, the shop, the receiving parts area, the parking lot, marketing, bookkeeping, all the things. What, what value do you see in your mastermind group, you know,
Tom Grover: as a, as that, uh, being in a group? I don't know if it's as much having them come to my shop as much as it is me going to other shops.
Tom Grover: And, you know, as I went to other shops and, and I said, man, I've got to improve this and this and this. And when I'd come home, I had, I had pages of stuff I, I needed to improve in my own shop. And so I would come home and I would make all these improvements. So the nice thing was, is when they visited my shop, I had already hit a lot of these areas and they really focused on.
Tom Grover: Some areas of, um, kind of a little deeper aspects, you know, on how to make a little bit more productive and, and some processes to refine and some things like that. Um, there were a few, few little issues that, uh, you know, came up as far as, um, signage and things like that. It were, there were things that I was already working on.
Tom Grover: Sure, sure. I actually had sign. Coming. They were already ordered when they came, but they weren't up yet. So, um, but it was based off of feedback from other shop owners, from other shops and things like that. So, you know, just to, to see what other guys are doing and seeing what expectations, see what's working out there.
Tom Grover: I mean, it is worth a lot. Um, and then to have 'em come into my shop and say, you know, ask us, is it always this clean? Well, yeah. It and asking the guys, is it always this way? Is always, it is like, yeah, it generally is. Or, or, no, it's not, you know, um, but just kind of backs us up a little bit as Yeah, you're, you're doing good things, you know, you're on the right path, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I think that's awesome. I, my father says that everyone's an example. Some people are a good example of what not to do and some are a good example of what to do. And it sounds like you have learned from other people's scenarios, from their situations, brought it back to your own shop, implemented it so that you were even further down the road when they came to look at your shop.
Jimmy Lea: It was, it was more of a surprise. Oh my gosh, this is so good. Because you did the work, because you put in the time because you visited other shops and said, oh my gosh, I need to fix this at my place as well, Tom, that's phenomenal. Speaking of that, did you run your marketing ideas through your mastermind group?
Tom Grover: Um, I, I've kind of talked about a few of 'em, but, um, not as much as I, as I should have, I guess. Um. Once I started this group, I mean, I only started the group a year and a little over a year and a half ago.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Tom Grover: And I tell you, I struggled. I, I always had constant growth, you know, from 2012 to where I'm today, I, I kind of had consistent growth.
Tom Grover: You know, I'd grow a little bit each year, right? I was always growing, I was always behind schedule, you know, had plenty of work. But my biggest focus was getting the work done. How do I get this work done? And, and I tried a couple of different groups out there that, you know, uh, coaching groups and they would come in and they would say, okay, your big focus, you need to be doing marketing.
Tom Grover: And I'd look at 'em, I'd say, why do I need to be spending more on marketing when I can't get the work done that's here? And they says, well, just trust me.
Jimmy Lea: You know,
Tom Grover: do this and this and, and let's start focusing on your marketing. And I, I, I just, you know, I didn't agree with what they wanted to do in the direction.
Tom Grover: And so I'd kind of given up a little bit on, on the coaching groups. I thought, ah, they're just after my money and wanting to do marketing. And, um, then I went to CIMA and, uh, Cecil was, was doing a workshop there. Uh, yeah, I don't remember the title of it, but basically it covered communication in your shop and, uh oh, it's the
Jimmy Lea: front to back conversations.
Tom Grover: Yeah. And I sat down in that meeting and I go, whoa, he just hit exactly what I need to do. I need to improve my communication in my shop. I need to make this, this will make things happen. And I, and I came home and I started putting stuff to work, and I started into doing some coaching. And, uh, all of a sudden I went from, uh, so that was in November?
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Tom Grover: And that year I finished strong. So that year I finished at 1.2 million.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Tom Grover: I finished the next year, almost 1.7 million after joining the coaching group. Oh, what did that, what did that do? But as a result, I mean, our A A RO went up and everything else, I hired more technicians, but my challenge was then, now I have to market and how do I market?
Tom Grover: And so I actually, I went to Mars last year and I, I brought one of my employees, she was also my sister, and, and she was really wanting to do the marketing and, and I sat down, went down there with her, and we kind of went through some stuff. I came back and did a few things, but it wasn't really, really clicking.
Tom Grover: Hmm. So we, I've, I've thrown some things out there with, uh, you know, as, as I've met with these other shops and see what's working and, um, and then really I'm excited here for, here in a few weeks. I'll be taking my manager down there, uh, and, and going through this marketing again and setting it together a real, we have a marketing plan, but we want to refine it.
Tom Grover: We really want to make it to where our weakness is, uh, is not getting the cars in. I want to be able to just churn, you know? And yeah. So we want to increase that volume of the shop in order to do so. Now we have to focus on marketing, but we've been able to fix a lot of the other aspects that needed to be fixed, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it, Tom. That's amazing. Uh, you, you, do, you know Tracy Holt performance place down here in, uh, Northern? Yep. Very similar story. Very similar story. The two of you, you needed shop efficiencies. You didn't need car counts, you didn't need average repair order, you needed shop efficiencies. And once you got that down, what happens naturally?
Jimmy Lea: Car count went up, average report order, app repair order went up, and now you're at the point where, oh my gosh, okay, we're efficient. Average peer order is perfect. It's where it needs to be. Alright, now we're at the point. Let's bring in more cards. Let's increase. Ah, I love it. That's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Tom Grover: You know what I also have to say about our postcards? Um, so when we started our postcards, and no one else here was really doing any postcards, and I really don't have a lot of shops here to, to pattern after either. Um, but. I started sending some out and I have to just as far as kudos to Cameron here, I got one of their postcards from one of the other shops and, um, I looked at it and I had to look at it.
Tom Grover: I kid you not for a good minute to figure out what they were trying to sell because they had so much on that postcard and there was. There was just so much. I'm like, well, are they a wrecking yard? Are they towing service? Are they a repair shop? What are they, what are they marketing here? You know? And they just threw so much in there and, and I thought, that's odd.
Tom Grover: Well, my son got the same postcard and he looked at it and he is like, did you see this dad? And I says, yeah. He goes, I couldn't figure out what they're marketing. You know, and so that has been a big example to me. You know, as Cameron as, as we shoot out these different things and he makes recommendations and they try to keep it pretty simple and where our focus is.
Tom Grover: Um, so, you know, sometimes we get stuff out there. Yeah, I looked at that postcard for a long time, but I really wasn't sure what they were marketing. Um, oh wow. So, you know, sometimes it's, it's getting our name out there and it, you know, in the right way.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Hey, it is that kiss method. Keep it simple, Simon.
Jimmy Lea: You've gotta keep it simple. Have a very focused message and know exactly what you're promoting. That's what you want in your shop, so you, that's what you ask for. Oh, I, I love it. I think that's great. I think that's great. What else? Uh, let's see. We've gone it through. Oh, John's got a question here. Let's, let's give John some some love here when it comes to marketing.
Jimmy Lea: Who should make the actual postcard that is sent out? If I make a postcard, can I just send it out to my customers? Anyways? What are the benefits of using someone like Upswell for my marketing? You know, I think that's a great question, Cameron. 'cause yeah, yeah. J John, I, I could go to Kinko's or copy place and, and print all the postcards I'd want.
Jimmy Lea: And you can, and you can put a stamp on every single one of 'em, or Cameron,
Cameron Ritter: or you could use someone like Upswell, right? So obviously your time's valuable and your time is money. Um, and so not only that, right? It's, it's actually a lot of times cheaper to use a company like us because we get print discounts, postage discounts, um, we also, you're not designing it.
Cameron Ritter: Our, we have an in-house design team that is actually designing that for us. Um. It's, makes it a lot easier on you, number one. Number two, when you are targeting, or when you're sending these postcards out yourself, you have no, no backend analytics or tracking, right? Um, so you can't see, you know, like I was talking about earlier with the address match backs, um, it's, it's hard for you to see all of that data on the backend, on what your actual return on your investment is.
Cameron Ritter: Um, and then number three. Targeting is such a big deal. Um, with, with postcards it's much harder for you to do when you go to USPS and you do EDDM, all these things. It's, um, you, you can see the map and you kind of know your area, but there's some areas maybe you don't know where you're getting customers from.
Cameron Ritter: And so that's what we are able to pull that penetration report that I was showing earlier. And really find out, okay, you've got eight people coming from here, but they're only spending 500 bucks, uh, on average in the last 12 months. But you've got, you know, 20 customers coming from here and they're spending 2000 with you on average in the last 12 months.
Cameron Ritter: So it's very, we can very fine tune, target your ideal customers, which is much harder for you guys to do on your own. Um, and so that, that's really three reasons. I, I would say you would want to use someone like Upswell. Um, and like I said, it, as long as you're doing postcards, uh, with somebody and you're doing it the right way, you've gotta have three things, right?
Cameron Ritter: The right, uh, the right people at the right time with the right messaging, right? All those three things have to combine. And we've, and we've been doing, I'll keep saying it, we've been doing it a long time and we've started in the auto repair industry that, you know, Greg Sands, our founder, uh, owned auto shops.
Cameron Ritter: So all of this stuff is from his brain and, and knowing how to do it, um. So we just have it down to a science, right? And we, we have different plans and, and programs that we do, and no contracts. And I mean, a lot, there's a lot of reasons I, I guess I should say on why you should use someone like Upswell.
Cameron Ritter: Um, it makes your life a lot easier and you're gonna, you're gonna get better return if you use, uh, so, so like, if you think of it as a cost savings thing, like, oh, I'll save myself some dollars to. Design it myself and, and do it this way myself. It's really gonna cost you money on the back end because of, you know, our ability to target and track this stuff for you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. I, I wouldn't advise it. Absolutely. Yeah.
Tom Grover: And I'll tell you what I, I do, I mean, Cameron will send me out a a what? A, a print.
Cameron Ritter: Postcard, proof, proof,
Tom Grover: postcard proof. And I look at it and go, that is not at all what I want. And I say, I want this and this and this.
Tom Grover: I want something like this and this and this. And they send it back to me and I go, oh, that's better, but this here, it's not what I want. Send it back. And, and they change. And you know, sometimes
Jimmy Lea: it's
Tom Grover: throwing things out and seeing what works. Um,
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Tom Grover: we recently, the last two mailings. Which I haven't even reported back to Cameron as to how well this worked, but, um, we added, we have a, a virtual golf place here in town that started up and I thought, you know what?
Tom Grover: Maybe that's our target market. Let's get, let's, let's focus on some golfers, you know, and, and see if we can kind of pick up some of that. And so, uh, up in the top corner it was, if you pick up the thing, first thing that pops into your eye is, is the virtual golf. And, uh. It said, get round of golf on us. And we, we launched this out actually last, was it December, January?
Tom Grover: Ja. It was a winter month, so, you know, yeah. Were closed and, um, we, we sent it out and interesting enough, we did not get, we only had one customer come in and request the code to go get a free round of golf, but. My friend who owns the golf place, who is actually a financial advisor, so he works with my type of clients, um, reported back and said, man, our memberships jumped through the roof this month.
Tom Grover: It was all you, so here it is. We, we sent out, we didn't get people in the door specific to that golf. They didn't want the golf code. We got a lot of people coming back with, with the postcard itself. But, so we didn't, we didn't actually pay for anyone's round. 'cause only one, well, only one person requested it.
Tom Grover: Um, and we gave it to 'em and, and, you know, and so we thought, well, we didn't get anything. So the next round they actually, they sent that postcard to me, um, as a proof. And I go, oh, I haven't taken that off yet. I just. You know what, I'm just gonna run in another round. And so I think that was like in April or something like that.
Tom Grover: We ran it again. And,
Jimmy Lea: and uh,
Tom Grover: same results for us on our side. We did not get anybody coming in to ask for that, that code to do their own round of virtual golf. But on their side it picked up. And so how did that affect us? One thing is they were holding onto that, that card, thinking about the golf side.
Tom Grover: Yeah, they weren't looking for the special, but it, they were bringing in the card for other services. Um, wow. But you know, so sometimes it's throwing stuff out. It's like, was that unsuccessful? Was it successful? Hey, you know what? On the golf side, their memberships went up. They loved it. And so they were happy 'cause I just marketed for 'em.
Tom Grover: You know what, they deal with my clients. They're my type of client every day. So, yeah. Is, is that a loss for me?
Jimmy Lea: I'm seeing a co-marketing opportunity here. That's what I'm seeing.
Tom Grover: Yeah. It works great for that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's super awesome. Tom, what advice would you give to a shop owner that's a little bit hesitant on starting a uh, uh, postcard campaign?
Jimmy Lea: What advice would you give them?
Tom Grover: You know, Cameron told me run at least at at two consecutive mailers. And before you really make a a decision. Um, the mail campaign is not the only thing we do in marketing right now, um, because, uh, it is a, it is, you know, more expensive than doing Google or Facebook marketing, things like that.
Tom Grover: But adding that into, um, our process keeps us in the forefront of people's minds. Um, it brings stuff in, it's just another aspect. So. You know, if you're a struggling shop and just struggling on, on trying to, to get the most dollar for, for value of getting out there, you might wanna start in, in like your Google and your Facebook, because it, it's the cheaper area.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Do the digital stuff first.
Tom Grover: Yeah. When you wanna get into really targeting your ideal person and to grow that a RO and to market specific areas. Um, you know what? The direct mail is a great way to do it, and you mix that in once you have your other campaigns going. So you send the, your direct mail, and then they go to the computer and they look it up and, whoa, your ads pop up on Facebook or Google or, you know, your, your website pops up.
Tom Grover: Now all of a sudden your marketing is, is more complete, more, um. You know who, who actually was responsible for getting that customer in? Was it the ad that they saw after that? Was it the, the original piece of mail? Who cares? You know, it's just another part of your marketing.
Jimmy Lea: And, and the answer is yes, and yes and yes, and yes.
Jimmy Lea: It was all a part of the marketing program. So yes, it was the Google ads. Yes, it was the Facebook ads. Yes, it was the postcards. Yes, it was all of the marketing plan. It worked because you had a marketing plan. You put it in place and you launched it. You track it, you find out what's working and what's not.
Jimmy Lea: Then you really elevate that. I, there were pe I, I've talked to people. I'm, I know we're talking about postcards, but I'm gonna put a billboard. Comment here. I had a friend, uh, two, two different shops that had billboards. They didn't know if they were actually making money off those billboards or not put tracking onto it.
Jimmy Lea: Shazam, now they know exactly. What they're getting from the billboards and neither one of 'em have taken 'em down. They are absolutely there and they're gonna stay there because it works and they're right off the freeway. So it totally makes sense. Yeah. So, uh, Tom, if you were to go back in time, what advice would you give to yourself in starting your postcard program?
Jimmy Lea: What lessons have you learned that you wished you knew a year and a half, two years ago?
Tom Grover: I think. Probably get a marketing process down and, and stick with it. You know, one of the things we did is, is we threw out some marketing. We go, oh, now we're busy. And so we quit marketing. And then when it got slow, I called Cameron, Hey, I, I gotta send something.
Tom Grover: And well, you know, then it takes a little bit to get that going again. And, and so it's like being consistent with the marketing. Um. Uh, trying to keep, keep things in the forefront. Don't wait until it's, uh, you know, a slow day and then say, man, I wish I had more, more cars in the door. Um, but you put together a campaign and, and some of it's just to keep out there in the forefront of, of people's minds.
Tom Grover: And, um, something we're, we're playing with a little bit for, for next year. Um. Two more areas we're gonna focus and use direct mail in. One is we're gonna put together something that's associated directly with the community. So with like a, a calendar of events on there, something that they're gonna take and put on the refrigerator to remember those, those, uh, schedules.
Tom Grover: Um, and that can go out direct mail. And the other thing is we just started doing tires and so we're gonna use, uh, direct mail to, to get our name out there as far as doing tires. So there's different times. Um, but you know, don't wait until there's nobody coming in the door to, to really do it. Just kind of put together, plan on, you know, Cameron knows that right now I'm planning on the end of this year, there's gonna be a couple of, of, uh, pieces going out and so that's
Jimmy Lea: nice.
Jimmy Lea: That's, that's very cool. That's very cool. Uh, uh, Tom, I'm looking forward to seeing you here at the Mars Conference because, uh, we'll take this up to the next level here, helping you to refine your marketing program, your marketing plan. Uh, thank you for coming down here because it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Jimmy Lea: So we're gonna, we're gonna land this plane here now, and Cameron go to you first and then Tom to you, and then we'll land the plane to, uh, Cameron. What is something. What is a concept that you wished automotive shop owners understood about marketing? Like if you had a magic wand, you could wave it and everybody would understand about marketing.
Jimmy Lea: Tom could have said it better.
Cameron Ritter: Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Um, that's why, like Tom said earlier, give me two months at least. I mean, that's, that's bare bones minimum. Just gimme that. Um, but I mean, I've got shops that have been mailing with me for four years straight. Um, and so, and they stay consistent and as it's just like your Google ads, right?
Cameron Ritter: You wouldn't just turn your Google ads off, then turn it on and off and on. It's just like your website. You wouldn't do that either, right? Postcards are the same way. All your marketing's the same way. And I guess the other part of that, um, would be to have these two different types of marketing push pull.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So push is gonna be like your direct mail. You're proactively reaching out to customers, trying to entice them to come into your shop. Pull is gonna be your Google Ads, right? You're getting customers that are in need of service right now. Like, Hey, I need brakes right now. Um, I'm gonna type in auto repair near me, or brakes near me.
Cameron Ritter: Um, have those two types of marketing in place because that's how you're gonna get the best results and stay consistent with both. Don't shut them off either. What I always suggest my customers to do if, 'cause I, I have customers call me all the time in the summer, summer months, Hey, I am slammed. I'm too busy, I can't take on another car.
Cameron Ritter: Okay, awesome. Look, let's not shut this off. Let's cut it in half or let's cut it down to a quarter. Let's, but it's like a, it is like a cruise ship, right? It's hard to get that thing going. And you get it going, it's going great. And once you stop it, it's hard to get it back going again. And so then, especially when you come into September, October, November months that are slower for a lot of shops, now we've gotta get that cruise ship back started up again.
Cameron Ritter: And that goes for all of your marketing. So stay consistent with it. Um, it will pay off and it will pay more than what you paid for it. It's an investment. It's not a cost.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's so true. So true. Thank you, Cameron. That consistency is so important, especially in marketing and when it's going well, you don't let your foot off the pedal.
Jimmy Lea: You don't let it off the gas. You should double down. That's fish when the fish are biting. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Cameron Ritter: Get them in the shop. There's never a bad time to market fish. When the fish are biting. When they're not biting, guess what? Everyone pulls their lines outta the water. Put yours in, keep yours in.
Cameron Ritter: Keep yours in. Yeah, keep in.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, uh, uh, I'll answer Evan's question real quick and then Tom will come to you, Evan, the question that you're asking about the billboards, uh, these two shops put a call tracking phone number on the billboards, and from that they knew how many people were calling, how many of them made appointments, how many of 'em came in to the shop and had services performed on their vehicles.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, and it was a staggering number. It was shocking. Uh, both, uh. Dan and Bill were shocked. They were both surprised that it was such a high number. Um, so that's the way you can track your billboards. Evan is with a call tracking phone number and you would think, oh my gosh, call tracking number. How are they gonna see that and call me from the freeway.
Jimmy Lea: Here they are going 80 miles an hour down the freeway. I don't know. They took a picture of it, they memorized it. I, I don't know, but they called. I, I know that's what they did, and it worked and it was shocking results. So. Evan, try it out. I'd love to hear the results you get from your billboard tracking efforts.
Jimmy Lea: That would be, that would be pretty awesome. Uh, and thank you Elena for putting information out there about the Mars Conference. If you wanna see Tom and shake his hand and uh, be part of the Mars Conference, we would love for you to come check us out. We are the institute.com. Go in there under the events, the Mars event, uh, marketing for automotive repair shops.
Jimmy Lea: You can meet Tom, you can meet myself. We'd love to have you there. Uh, because it's, it's gonna be a great marketing conference, one that just really is gonna elevate your marketing business. Now, Tom, the question I have for you as we close this out is, what does the future look like for Tom and Allright Automotive and Diesel?
Tom Grover: You know, we went through some major struggles these last few months. Uh, kind of, we were getting a lot of our processes done. We grew so much. We really started to focus on culture. And we did a big shakeup and, uh, you know, it cost us a lot. But you know what, when people show up to work now, they love coming to work and they love being able to, to contribute and have their voice heard in, in the things that we do.
Tom Grover: Um, communication's better than ever. Uh, and we're actually starting on the uptick. Um. Now, I mean, it's been a, a rough few months as we've gone through some change, but you know what? We have things in place and moving forward, so, but
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Good. Congratulations. The future is bright. You know, when you're lean and mean, you're a fighting machine, it sounds like you got rid of those bad apples and now you're ready to rock and roll.
Jimmy Lea: That's right. Nice. Congratulations. That's awesome. Well join us at the Mars Conference. All of you who are here, uh, we would love to have you there. Tom, thank you for joining. Cameron, thank you for joining. It is been a, a great conversation. Anytime I get to talk about marketing, I absolutely love it and I look forward to these opportunities.
Jimmy Lea: So to both of you, thank you.
Cameron Ritter: Thanks for the time, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. And, and for those of you joining us here, there's a, a 32nd commercial here at the very end. Pull out your cell phones, get ready. The QR code. Scan that QR code and you can get an appointment with my team, so we can talk to you about your business.
Jimmy Lea: We'll give you a little analysis of your shop and say, Hey, you know what? Here's one or two things that you could really do that will help move the needle for your shop, help you improve your process, procedures, help move your needle so that you can retain some more profit. That'd be great, wouldn't it?
Jimmy Lea: Uh, check us out. Also for the leadership intensive. We are coming to North Carolina in October, going to Blowing Rock North Carolina. For those of you don't know, that's Lucas Underwood's shop. He is hosting a leadership intensive at his shop and we are gonna be conducting that. It's a three day super awesome intensive leadership training.
Jimmy Lea: You definitely wanna be there for that. And those of you who have advisors that need some training, you are on the East coast. In December, we are coming to Atlanta, Georgia, Cameron, that's right down the street from you. We're coming to Atlanta, Georgia for a service advisor, three day service advisor intensive.
Jimmy Lea: We just finished the last one here in Ogden, Utah. We're ready now to do it again. We're gonna take it East Coast. So if you have a shop, you're East Coast and you have an advisor that you wanna take up from zero to hero. We can definitely help you do that in December. Look forward to seeing you there. My name is Jimmy Lee.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for the time. I look forward to seeing you again soon at a conference or maybe even at your shop. I.

137 - The Power of Accountability: You Can’t Grow Alone!

137 - The Power of Accountability: You Can’t Grow Alone!
July 21, 2025 - 00:37:26
Show Summary:
Recorded at the Institute Summit 2025, Tracy Holt and Patrece Holt Vance, a brother-sister duo from a family owned shop, share how their business transitioned into a new era of strategic growth and profitability under their leadership. They credit much of their progress to the accountability and peer support they found through the Institute’s Peer Groups. Tracy and Patrice also open up about the critical role of workplace culture and employee well-being in their success, and Tracy reflects on how a personal tragedy reshaped his "why" and fuels his drive today.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Tracy Holt and Patrece Holt Vance, Performance Place, South Jordan, UT
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction (00:00:00)Guest Introductions and Family Business Background (00:01:01)Composite Partner Program and Accountability (00:02:00)Vulnerability and Sharing Struggles (00:04:14)Common Struggles Among Shop Owners (00:05:40)Summit Speakers and Dan Clark’s Message (00:06:12)The Evolving 'Why' and Taking Action (00:07:07) Self-Doubt and Risk in Business (00:08:03)Family Dynamics and Succession (00:08:32)Balancing Work and Family Life (00:09:40)Major Life Pivot and Business Purpose (00:11:18)Lessons from Adversity and Team Building (00:13:08)CRM, Marketing, and Customer Loyalty (00:18:16)Profitability, Expansion, and Growth Mindset (00:19:20)Intuition and Sustainable Growth (00:20:39)Cost Management and Expense Control (00:22:10)Fear of Failure and Shifting Mindsets (00:24:24)Expansion, ROI, and Vision (00:26:38)Customer Relations and Word-of-Mouth (00:26:54)Opportunities, Multi-Shop Growth, and Caution (00:28:41)Conference Takeaways: Culture and Accountability (00:30:30)Continuous Improvement and Community Involvement (00:33:06)Implementing Conference Learnings (00:33:52)
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everyone. Carm Capto. Remarkable Results Radio. Good to have you here. Look at my guest panel. Okay. Maybe it's redundant, but you all know. I'm at Amelia Island at the Institute's Summit 2025, where the theme is stand out. We are the institute.com. Thank you so much to Kent and Cecil Bullard and the entire team from the Institute.
Carm Capriotto: We've had a blast here learning a lot, meeting a lot of our great friends, meeting new friends, and creating content that I know you're gonna continue to appreciate a lot of great stuff coming out of this. Thank you so much to our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold certified program.
Carm Capriotto: This program is for the best of the best who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers. Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop. For over 30 years, Napa Trax has made Selecting the right shop management system easy.
Carm Capriotto: By offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry, we'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the business. Find Napa Trax on the web at N APA tacs dot. Hey, I am with two great people that I met in Buffalo, New York. I don't know, maybe it was about maybe seven, eight months ago, right?
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, yeah. Tracy Holt from Performance Place in South Jordan, Utah, and Tracy's with his sister, Patrice Vance in the operational side of the business. All the book. You work the counter? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I do, yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Whoa, cool. It all. All right. Lemme sell me a diagnostics. No, I'm kidding. 
Patrece Holt Vance: I'll check your car in and make sure you feel comfortable leaving it with us, so yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. I am fine. A family business since 1974. I met you guys at a group meeting in Buffalo. Yeah. When you did a peer review of my friend Tom Cino. Remember that? 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Yeah. Tom is just a great guy, good friend of ours. Good. He's actually a my partner in the group process right now. 
Carm Capriotto: You mean composite partner?
Carm Capriotto: Yep. Yeah. Yes, Tom. Whoa, how cool is that? Uh, 'cause I have the word here. I wanted to talk to you and ask you about composite partners. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Tom's been our partner for the last year and we've grown so much in learning from him. And hopefully he's learned something from us too 
Carm Capriotto: along. Trust me, Tom is a sponge.
Carm Capriotto: He's a great friend. My wife's name is Anne, his wife's name is Anne. We spent some time over the holiday together. And I'm just so happy to hear that. What's composite partnering like? 
Tracy Holt: You know, when you get in, uh, a 20 group from the institute, your coach that you have, but then once you get in there, they assign you a partner that helps hold you accountable for your numbers.
Tracy Holt: And then it's also nice to have somebody else that literally at a text, an email, a phone call away saying, Hey, we've got some issues here. What do you think? It's like getting another coach. 
Carm Capriotto: Is what it does. You said the word account and the word accountability has been talked about a lot here in any of the keynote speakers that we've had.
Carm Capriotto: Do you find accountability one of the hardest things to do? 
Tracy Holt: I do. I mean, I think the accountability is really hard to do, but like. In the instance of it's, but you need it. You do. And it's hard to be accountable if you don't know what you're measuring and being accountable for. Right. And if you don't share those goals or benchmarks with somebody else to help hold you accountable, you know, in your mind they're just thoughts and hopes and dreams.
Carm Capriotto: So would you say to Tom, I know what your, I know what your goals are for this year. I know you're looking for another whole point of margin. We're getting together. We're looking at each other's numbers. We're seeing what's going on with your business. And oh, by the way, Tom, you have not reached that goal.
Carm Capriotto: I'm holding you accountable. I'd like to know, is that how it works? That's exactly 
Tracy Holt: how it works. 
Carm Capriotto: Yep. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. And then usually he can say, this is my struggles and maybe we have some insights and we come up with a game plan and you know, set some new benchmarks and goals and move forward with it. 
Carm Capriotto: Shop owners say, I can't do that.
Carm Capriotto: I can't be that vulnerable. I can't expose my weaknesses. But you guys overcame that. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah, it was really scary at first, like the composite and showing numbers and making sure things were right. Tom was pretty much like Tracy said, our coach during the beginning of it. You know, coming in new and not really knowing what we're doing and making corrections all the time on what our data was.
Patrece Holt Vance: But before we didn't know what any of those numbers were and why we needed to hit these certain goals. And that's what the institute has done for us. Is, okay, well I need to hit this margin, but why? And what does that play a part in? And why are these other margins this? So it's more of just like saying, Hey, you need to hit a number.
Patrece Holt Vance: It's, this is the reason why behind it. Tom's really good about, you know, we're having struggles. He is, it's just more of like a friendship where. Yeah, guess what? We're all not gonna have great months in business, but I have a buddy that's gonna help me through it and instead of just like losing hope, it's like, Hey, bad month.
Patrece Holt Vance: Let's move on. Let's figure out what we can do the next time. 
Carm Capriotto: I say the word struggle a lot on my podcast, and here you are very successful, long-term family business, and you mention the word struggle and Tom mentions the word struggle and you're all doing so well. And when you get that up on the table, life changes.
Carm Capriotto: It does 
Tracy Holt: be, we were sitting at dinner last night with Tom and some other friends, and it's just interesting to hear other shop's, struggles of, my service advisor did this, a technician did this, you know, whatever you want to call it. And it just all of a sudden in your mind, you're like, oh, you know what?
Tracy Holt: His business may be at a different dollar level than mine. But the struggles are the same from one to another personnel issues, you know, whatever it is. We find out that our struggles are the same struggles that everybody's having. 
Carm Capriotto: We've got some great speakers here, loved them so far, there's still one coming up.
Patrece Holt Vance: Mm-hmm. 
Carm Capriotto: Did you like Dan Clark? Oh, 
Tracy Holt: I'd love 
Carm Capriotto: Dan Clark. 
Patrece Holt Vance: That's amazing. 
Tracy Holt: He is amazing. And it's funny, I had not really. Heard of Dan until, you know, I was looking at the summit. Same here. So on the plane ride out, I'm downloading books and I downloaded his book and listened to it halfway out here on the plane and I got a chance to talk and with him a little bit and I'm like, you're absolutely amazing.
Tracy Holt: And 
Carm Capriotto: I interviewed him. Yeah, he was here. He was sitting where you were or you are? Yeah. Hot seat right now. Yeah, in the hot seat. He was fabulous. So. There's a lot of people that I've interviewed while I've been here in Orlando talking about Dan Clark. So if we've not motivated you, my listener, to search for that episode on Dan Clark, please do it.
Carm Capriotto: My big takeaway was, your why is stronger than your why not? That hit 
Tracy Holt: you hard, didn't it? It did. When he was talking about that in this business, as you become coachable and whatever. Aaron Woods, my coach, our first meeting, the first questions out of his mouth to me was, why are you doing this? There was a long pause and you have these, and I gave him some.
Tracy Holt: Answer and it didn't really mean anything. 
Carm Capriotto: He wasn't happy with it. 
Tracy Holt: No, he didn't let me off. He goes, goes, no, you gotta think about why you do this. Mm-hmm. What's gonna cause you to make these changes, you know, after some soul searching. And it's funny, I found that everybody's why for me, changes over time.
Tracy Holt: Why you do something today, may not be why you do it tomorrow. But then when Dan talked about. You know, it's one thing to find your why and why you do something, but what initiates the action is when, when the why becomes stronger than the why not. It initiates the action 
Carm Capriotto: because we think so much Patric, I'm sure this has happened to you.
Carm Capriotto: Why should I do this? Why shouldn't I do it? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. Well, self doubt's huge on that, right? Yeah. It's easier to doubt yourself than to trust yourself just to go do the things that. In any business that you're capable of, right? It's the risk that we're going to take to become these successful people. So self-doubt is a little bit, you know, that's the why not as well.
Patrece Holt Vance: So if we can come become over that, it's kind of the same concept. 
Carm Capriotto: Family businesses, trust me, tons of my listeners are family businesses. From dad to kids to kids, wondering if their kids are coming in. You know, the multi-generational things. How does the dynamic of your family work? And is dad still working in the business?
Carm Capriotto: Let's talk about that. 
Tracy Holt: No, dad, since about COVID time, he's been retired for years, but he just showed up every day at the shop. Mm-hmm. And then since COVID kind of triggered him and forced him to say, stay away, because he was having a few health issues and we said, dad, you gotta stay away. There's just, you know, we don't know what's going on in the world.
Tracy Holt: With what you're dealing with, let's just stay away. So they have a house in Southern Utah and he spent some time down there and I think it opened his eyes saying, yeah, I can be away from the shop and you know what, we're gonna turn the lights on every day and still go to work. You know? And that I think started the process of him stepping away full time and turning it over to us and saying, you know, you guys have got this.
Tracy Holt: These are all your decisions. I'm going to step away a hundred percent. Does 
Carm Capriotto: he consult with you? Do you consult with him? How's 
Tracy Holt: that work? I still talk to him every other day and you know, in the beginning I had a lot of questions. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? The good thing is now it's kind of turned back into a father and son thing to where we, he asked me about the business, but now we just talk about other stuff.
Tracy Holt: So he 
Carm Capriotto: must be so proud of you guys. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Which has been hard. He's been a business partner. I mean, this is the only job I've ever had. You know, in a family business, as everybody knows, 90% of your conversations evolve around what's going on with the business. 
Carm Capriotto: Really? You mean even at Thanksgiving? Oh, yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Huh? Yeah. Yes. Oh, my Thanksgiving. Yeah. I grew up in a family business. I know. Yeah. 
Patrece Holt Vance: That's the only holiday we spend together is Thanksgiving because we're with each other. Every day for five days a week. But yeah, we enjoy each other regardless, 
Carm Capriotto: but, so no rules at the, is there rules at the Thanksgiving dinner table that's gonna talk 
Tracy Holt: work?
Tracy Holt: It's funny, as dad stepped away, it's been easier and easier to separate that because dad was always the one that was instigating. Well, what about this? What about that at the shop? But how about you guys? We're learning to find some balance, I think. You know, I think I've been able to find a little more balance between work is work and I, it's always on my mind, but there's times when you've just gotta shut it off and put that behind you.
Carm Capriotto: It's almost like maybe an emotional sense of relief. Tracy, do I talk? Yes. Oh, she didn't even hear my question. I guess for me it's all about work because that's what it was when I grew up. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah, that's what 
Carm Capriotto: I, okay. Alright. Let's talk about your business. Was there ever a major pivot that you look back on and say, glad we did that.
Tracy Holt: That's one of the things I brought up in the conference and it got me thinking about that, you know, everybody in their life has these pivoting points that move you down a different path. Sorry, I'm gonna probably get emotional there. It's all right, man. You know, for me it was about eight years ago, my son was in a horrific car, a car accident, basically.
Tracy Holt: He was a college football player. And had just started playing football. You know, you have your kids that have these dreams and aspirations, and that was number one of his, since he was eight years old, dad, I'm gonna play college football. I'm like, okay. He gets to play one semester, basically of football and was in a horrific accident.
Tracy Holt: Basically, he was ejected from his car at about 70 miles an hour going down the freeway in an accident. Long story short, he was in a coma for three months, broken neck, broken back. Traumatic brain injury that we were told. You know, he is got a 10% chance to make it through the weekend. If he makes it through the weekend, he's going to be a vegetable.
Tracy Holt: Fast forward a year, he's in the hospital, outta the hospital. They send him home with us and he was home. He had to learn how to walk, talk, everything of that. But he's home. And now I've got a 21-year-old son that's sitting at home. You know, kind of in self-doubt and pity, trying to figure out what do I do with my life?
Tracy Holt: I said, get up. You're coming to work with me. So I drug him to work, made him come to the office and he started progress and get better and better. But over time, all of a sudden I just realized it's like, regardless, this business, I need to make it profitable and sustainable to where, for him, I've always got a place for him to work.
Tracy Holt: You know, that was kind of my why in the beginning, which sprung me in. It became stronger than my why not? I need to make this work for him. Since then, my why has changed dramatically. It's still there for him. He still works for me. But you know, that was the initial pivot point in my life where it's like, we need some coaching, we need some help.
Tracy Holt: We need to make this successful. So no matter what happens to me, you know, this will be here for him. That was the one point that I can look in my life where my life changed because of that. You gave him purpose. I did. I was talking to Dan about this yesterday and kind of sharing a little bit with him about his accident and what happened, and I said, it's one of those points in your life that absolutely, I wish this would've never happened to him, but as a family, it's been a great blessing 'cause we've learned so much about each other, about overcoming adversity.
Tracy Holt: Building a strong team at work, and there's so many life lessons that we've learned because of that. 
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Carm Capriotto: Each topic starts with intensive classroom training, followed by in-depth, hands-on practice, and students are tested on the knowledge they gained in the classroom. Technicians will learn on various hybrid and EV vehicles such as Tesla, Toyota, gm, Ford, Hyundai, and Nissan. This will allow them to make educated decisions on equipment needed in their own shop to perform repairs.
Carm Capriotto: This course is onsite at the Napa Automotive Research Center in Canton, Ohio. Attendance requires a SE six certification, E-P-A-A-S-E 6 0 9 certification a. And at least five years of shop experience. The total cost is only 4,000 per attendee, which includes the four day course, hotel, breakfast, lunch, and the PPE needed to perform the services.
Carm Capriotto: Now, if you're a gold certified autocare, you can use your gold marketing funds to offset the cost. Hey, don't miss out on this invaluable opportunity to advance your team skills and ensure your shop. Is EV ready? Contact the NAPA Training Service center at 802 9 2 64 28 to secure your spot. Let's face it, your shop management system is the single most important tool in your shop period.
Carm Capriotto: Napa Tracks was built from the ground up to make your business more profitable and efficient. We provide an extensive set of tools to increase and track profitability in real time. Napa Tracks offers the industry's best post-sale support, hands down, and we train your people on site. Yep, on site. And we offer remote refresher training 10 times a week, and customer support is open.
Carm Capriotto: Six days a week, give us a call. Visit the website or join our Facebook community today to learn more. We'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the business. Napa Trax is always customized and tailored for you, whether you are a one man shop or a large multi-pay or multi-location company.
Carm Capriotto: After all, it's your shop. So it's your choice. Visit us on the web at Napa Tracks. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. So Patrice on the counter, I got this quote from 2022 CNBC, said 56% of Americans don't have $1,000 in savings. Think about that when you're talking to clients. Would that change how you look at financing for them and how they come in?
Carm Capriotto: Last place they want to be is an automotive repair. Yeah. Shop. Unless it's routine maintenance. Right. And they're coming in for the right reasons. I thought about that and I thought about all the great financing plans that exist in our industry. Do you use them? 
Patrece Holt Vance: We don't. We've tried some in the past. They haven't been the greatest for us, haven't been.
Patrece Holt Vance: The people who need those that have applied don't seem to get accepted. Uhhuh. That's a huge roadblock for them. We haven't pursued anything recently, but I know there are options out there. Fortunately we're, our business is a pretty successful area of Salt Lake, so we don't see that very often. I'm not saying that it's not there, but we don't come across that very often in in our business.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. Do you use a CRM? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yes. 
Carm Capriotto: How's it working for you? Is it bringing in a new business? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Well with us, it's hard because we are such an established company, been there for 51 years. Our business is repeat customers, generations after generations. We know grandparents, parents, their kids, so for us, marketing and all of that hasn't really been a necessity until we've decided to grow.
Patrece Holt Vance: So we always ask ourselves like, why are you guys so successful? Why are you guys so busy? I don't, we don't know. We were just so fortunate. I think our dad. Growing up being that guy who was, he just took care of people back then. 
Carm Capriotto: It doesn't mean that the customers trust you. Love you. You do great work.
Carm Capriotto: There's hardly any comebacks. The five star reviews I was on your website. It's unbelievable. Wow. All the reviews you got. Yeah, I was looking for a bad one. I couldn't find them. 
Patrece Holt Vance: There's trouble in there, but 
Carm Capriotto: I'm sure there. Trust me, there have to be because we're human. Yeah. 14 bay, 10,000 square feet. How many people do you have working for you?
Patrece Holt Vance: We have 15 people. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: And here it is, this great business and it hit you guys over the head. I gotta get some direction. I don't know what, I don't know. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Well, and, and it stemmed from, you know, when we took over all the day-to-day operations. We were successful. We paid our bills every month. And you know, as I started to do a deep dive into the numbers, I'm like, we are working way too hard for what we have left over.
Tracy Holt: We're doing something wrong. We're doing enough right to survive, but we're not doing enough right to be profitable. So that's really the last, I don't know, few years has been our focus of profitability, making sure we're giving. The customer, the best experience they could have, doing what's right for the customer and putting the customer first, and then pricing ourselves accordingly.
Tracy Holt: And everything's kind of started to fall into place to where now I start to look at expansion. We're expanding the back of the shopper, adding five new bays that should be up and running any day now, which will allow us to expand more technicians, more, you know, better, more opportunity. But you had asked me that a couple years ago.
Tracy Holt: I'm like, I don't want any more bays. I can't handle the workflow we got now, the personnel we got. Now 
Carm Capriotto: you just hit on something that I really wanna talk about your intuition. Every once in a while it is there and you tamp it down and then it comes back up and it gets up a little higher in your head and you tamp it down.
Carm Capriotto: And is that not only what you've learned on how to make more money, how to hire great people. How to take care of your clients, but now all of a sudden I want to grow. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. I mean you look at, with our staff we've got now and finally getting it to the point where I, you know, they call it the well-oiled machine that everything is doing.
Tracy Holt: Their part never is, but go ahead. Yeah. In your mind, you think that's what're striving for? There's always something broken that needs address addressing, but I think we're finally getting enough stuff right, that we can grow at a pace and sustain it and not hurt us and only make us better. 
Carm Capriotto: After 51 years to a point, you have a foundation that's not just a six inch slab.
Carm Capriotto: You guys gotta have like a four foot foundation and there's probably not a lot you could experiment and do that you can't recover from 
Tracy Holt: No. Yeah, and we're trying new things, but we now step back and say, okay, is this gonna give value to our customers? Is this gonna give value to the company? Is it going to have value to our employees?
Tracy Holt: I always say that everybody needs to win the customer. My employees and the shop as a whole needs to win, you know? And if I can check those boxes off, we'll pursue it. 
Carm Capriotto: Do you guys have a great cost management hack? You can give our listener. Boy, 
Tracy Holt: you know it's funny, we had no cost management hack at all until getting on with the institute and then starting to see your numbers broke down to what everything, every little aspect of your business costs.
Tracy Holt: We realized that after that we were high in some things and really low in other things. Marketing were really low. Because we've never had to market. So you don't really have a big budget for marketing? No, but we're making a shift in that now because we can see with the growth potential. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. The New Bays may account for you to have to reach out.
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Okay. So we're actually just signed up with Sharp Shop Marketing Pros and look forward to a. A relationship with them, Kim and Brian Walker. Yeah. They 
Carm Capriotto: have a show on our network. They're good. Great people love them. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah, so we're excited about that. They're gonna build this new website and it's, I was talking to him yesterday about.
Tracy Holt: I've got enough car count right now to expand, but I'm need to mark it up for down the road. 
Carm Capriotto: That's a very interesting, but not a great cost hack. Yeah, I mean, like I looked at uniforms, I looked at subscriptions. If you've done anything like that, 
Tracy Holt: we're always looking for if certain things are high in the business, what, you know, other options, but.
Tracy Holt: Our expenses have always been kind of in check. Just kind of the way dad taught us. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Oh, family businesses are so like that. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Whatcha you spending that money on? What's that? Who bought that to sound familiar? Oh yeah. Constantly. 
Tracy Holt: That was dad's. You know, we were instilled in that of like, watch what you spend was your, what you spend was your 
Carm Capriotto: mom in the business?
Patrece Holt Vance: She did all the books right now. And so, 
Carm Capriotto: oh my God, she probably stood there at attention with her rifle. A 
Patrece Holt Vance: hundred percent. She did. 
Carm Capriotto: And that was my grandma by the way. And then it's 
Patrece Holt Vance: the same thing. I do that to Tracy. So I've taken my mom's space and I'm ha sitting there with the rifle on the expenses. 
Carm Capriotto: So there we go.
Carm Capriotto: Girl. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. Wow. So you gotta go through your sister to spend money. Yeah. Yeah. 
Tracy Holt: And I don't know who's scarier, my mom or my sister. So. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, you're filling the good shoes, aren't 
Patrece Holt Vance: you? I know. Like I got good ones to fill, so, 
Carm Capriotto: oh my God. All right. Are you guys afraid of anything? I 
Tracy Holt: think everybody's afraid of something.
Tracy Holt: In the back of your mind. You're always afraid of failure, whatever that means, but you know, we just can't dwell on that. Once you become profitable in this business, it seems like your mind shift always progresses into the future and growth. When you're surviving, all you're thinking about, man, I hope this doesn't blow up on me, because we could.
Tracy Holt: It all could fall apart. 
Carm Capriotto: You guys talked about struggle, you also talked about surviving, and those are two s words that really go together and I think there's a big takeaway here. All the top shops that listen to this show, they get you guys, but the struggle ones, ones that need to get climb up above, if you will, that hole that they're digging.
Carm Capriotto: Okay, you said something so powerful, I wanna talk about it. Once you start making money, you're really, I gotta make more. I gotta learn how to make it. I gotta be smarter at this because look at what the profits can do for a company. The talent you can hire, the what you can pay, the benefits you can provide, the equipment you can buy.
Carm Capriotto: And that I think is so big and it's so powerful when you start making money, life changes. It does. 
Tracy Holt: I look at the way that the businesses ran and I dad did everything. He could at the best of his ability to make it survive. And he did. But you know, I was saying we're doing some expansion in the back, new lifts, new heating lights, and I mean making basically another extension to the shop.
Tracy Holt: And the difference from today after, you know, being profitable versus five years ago, if we would've tried to do this, it would've been just do the bare minimum to get by. When we started this, it was kind of planned, but not really. But we've spent a lot of money in the last few months. But the difference is we've had the money to spend on the expansion and in the back of my mind I think about, you know what, I'm doing this for this goal.
Tracy Holt: That's in the end. And yes, it kind of sucks a little bit now because of the cost, but I haven't lost sight of the vision down the road of we're gonna double. 
Carm Capriotto: You would've never done this if there wasn't the ROI? No. You would've never done it? No. Is it almost done? Just 
Tracy Holt: yes. Wow. It actually got some pictures.
Tracy Holt: We've got a couple cars in there torn apart this week, so I'm excited to get back and obviously staff up for it and move forward. 
Carm Capriotto: Patrice, have you ever fired a customer? 
Patrece Holt Vance: No, I don't think so. Okay. I think I just deal with everybody and 
Carm Capriotto: Okay. 
Patrece Holt Vance: You know, everybody has a story. Everybody has, their things are going through and maybe something's happening in their life and their car breaks down and it's the worst thing and they can ever do.
Patrece Holt Vance: But, or any, the worst thing that could ever happen to them at that moment. But if you can make that experience a good experience for them, it can act, it will seem to help their whole situation. Our customers, like I said before, like we're super fortunate. We have a great clientele, we have a great area we live in.
Patrece Holt Vance: Families and families come in. There's a one lady that comes in, she's very strong personality. She walks in one day and is like. I have to quit telling people about you. And I'm like, why would you do that? She's like, because I can't get in anymore. Now all my friends are coming. I gotta, and I, and she has, all right, 
Carm Capriotto: we need four new bays.
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. For her, she has the biggest personality and she does podcasting and has a very big voice in the community. You know, she's this in our waiting room and she's everyone's best friend the whole time. So, you know, the word of mouth is what's so great for us with our clients because they're telling their friends about us.
Patrece Holt Vance: The whole thing about firing. Customers. We don't really do that. You 
Carm Capriotto: said something very interesting there. This, everybody has a story, and I would love to dig into that in a minute, but you just hit something. There's millions of podcasts out there and there are so many locals. Everybody wants to be a podcaster, number one.
Carm Capriotto: Number two is I love bourbon, so I'm gonna go hook up with a bar and I'm gonna go there on a Friday night and I'm gonna do a podcast and we're gonna drink bourbon, or it's flowers or it's community. If you think about the marketing side of that, get to. Befriend every podcaster in your town in South Jordan.
Carm Capriotto: Make sure they're clients and you, maybe you'll never have to market again. There you go. We may have to keep expanding. So, oh shit. What a bay. Oh, I would never want that to happen. Are you kidding me? Four more bays after these four. 
Tracy Holt: Well, it's funny at times her husband does commercial real estate, and so whenever there's a shop for sale or something that pops up in our area, ooh, I get the email and I turn to her and she's like, no, 
Carm Capriotto: delete.
Tracy Holt: Let's get ours fixed first. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Well, that's interesting that you say that. Get it fixed. It's never going to be fixed. No, and we've realized that. So how many more shops could you have had if Tracy said yes to every one of your husband's things? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I mean, he's sitting like 10 of us in front of us, so there's, who knows?
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Tracy Holt: Well I shouldn't say fixed. Let's get this one duplicatable. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh. I'm sorry. That's pretty damn powerful because you're right, because you know enough about being able to go into another place and you struggle with number two and if you don't have the processes and the systems in play mm-hmm. And you think of even wanting to go into three and I'm all the multis shop operators out there know it and they've come on my show and said confession.
Carm Capriotto: You know about, uh, oh my God, we finally figured it out after store three and a half. Yeah. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: And that's because they did it on their own. They did it with no guidance and they weren't even prepared to do two, but they did it because Camp pass up this opportunity. It just came to me. I had to say yes, the numbers were right and they thought that they could just.
Carm Capriotto: Flip a switch. No. And it just doesn't do that. 
Tracy Holt: No. And we've gotta protect our business and our brand and we will never do anything. If that time comes and it's time to do something like that, we'll pursue it. But you know, right now is, let's make the best of what we've got. 
Carm Capriotto: I have one question for each of you.
Carm Capriotto: A big takeaway from this conference so far that you're gonna go back and do something with? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I think culture's huge. We've always had a positive culture at our shop. We've had a couple. People here and there that can bring the shop down. But if we really focus on the culture ourselves, which start, or it actually starts with us, how do we come to work in the morning?
Patrece Holt Vance: How do we present ourselves to other people? That's just gonna be contagious to our guys. If I walk in the shop all mad and grumpy, and now that it's a Monday, that just sets the tone for them. So I think even just holding ourselves accountable, right? We use that word a lot this weekend too. We need to be accountable for us to start or to, it's contagious.
Patrece Holt Vance: If you have a great attitude, if you, even if you're didn't, I mean just walk into the work and just have a great attitude about things, everybody else will. You have that one guy in the corner that you're just like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with him? Right. Just lift him up. So I think culture is a lot too, about just the way that we hold ourselves.
Patrece Holt Vance: In the management part of the system, 
Carm Capriotto: my friend Shari Pheasant described culture to me this way. She says, Carmen the weather. I took that from her and it just really hit me hard. And then on podcasts, I would say, so is there a Thunder Cloud in Bay three? Yeah. Think about that. Yeah. Now, it may not be a perpetual Thunder cloud, but it could be just for today, something may have happened to that individual and it's maybe bringing down the rest.
Carm Capriotto: And you know, but I guess the goal would be sunshine every day. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. But just knowing that your team members, that they know that we have their back, that we're there to support them. We all have families, we all have other things outside of that shop. So just really understanding them as, you're not just my employee, you're a person and I do care about you.
Patrece Holt Vance: I care about your wellbeing and I care about your family. We come from the family background of the business. We have a family culture in our shop. Like our one technician, Cody, we always joke that he's my little brother. I wish I had, I would take all three of my brothers and take him instead. Our mom says that too.
Patrece Holt Vance: So just the family dynamic that we have inside our shop with our employees, it's just a natural thing for us. 'cause we, that's how we grew. 
Carm Capriotto: You know the word I just thought about, Patrice's fit. He fits, 
Patrece Holt Vance: he does. 
Carm Capriotto: He fits in the organization. He fits in the family. He fits, he knows what we do and how we do it.
Carm Capriotto: And what I took from Dr. Jesse Krieger yesterday was this whole storytelling thing. And I talked to Parker yesterday. Parker starts every meeting twice a day with his service advisors and say, tell me a story. 
Patrece Holt Vance: I like that. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, that's really good. Isn't cool. 
Tracy Holt: Big takeaway for you overall. It's kind of a general term, but we can do better.
Tracy Holt: That's kind of in the, been in the back of my mind from all the speakers and what we can learn. We can have a better culture at the shop. We can do better inspections for our customers. We can have better customer service. We can have a, you know, a better customer experience, we can be better at being involved in the community.
Tracy Holt: There's certain aspects that I think at sometimes you think, well, I do enough community support. I feel like I do enough. But you know what? We can all do better. And I think is that we force ourselves to do more. It's gonna force growth is what it'll do. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. I so wish you guys all the luck in the world and you know, the big thing about.
Carm Capriotto: Conferences, and I think we spoke about it while we're here recording. I used to go to conferences. I still do, but when I owned the business, I'd come back. They'd never car, don't go to a conference. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. Yep. 
Carm Capriotto: You know the drill, right? Yep, yep. Oh my God. He is gonna come back and we're gonna have to change.
Carm Capriotto: He's gonna upload my new stuff. And I realized that it was, again, I had to learn, I had to grow up, I had to become a better leader. And it was just wow. Gangbusters, right? Zero to 60 in, you know, 1.9 seconds. After a while, Hey, I learned this and I saw this, read this. What do you think of this? And slowly get some buy-in.
Carm Capriotto: And if it's going to work for the company, you can't push. It's gotta be pulled into. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Great advice. Wow, this was fun. Thank you for sharing this great episode. Very emotional. Thank you for sharing all that. Tracy, hold to Patrice Vance's, brother, sister at Performance Place in South Jordan, Utah.
Carm Capriotto: Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you, karma. I've, I've enjoyed your podcast. Thank you so much.
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive until time.
 

136 - Hidden Growth Hack Top Shops Use OR Downturn-Proof: The Shop Owner’s Guide to Growing in Any Economy

136 - Hidden Growth Hack Top Shops Use OR Downturn-Proof: The Shop Owner’s Guide to Growing in Any Economy
August 6, 2025 - 00:52:27
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea hosts a conversation with AutoBoost’s Adam Kushner and Joe Pfender, joined by Eric Henley of H Tek Tire & Auto Care in East Tennessee, exploring how auto repair shops can remain visible, relevant, and profitable no matter the economic climate. The discussion ranges from the early days of phone book ads to today’s data-driven digital strategies, with insights on Google Ads, Local Service Ads, and brand-based website content. Eric shares how targeted marketing and rebranding have fueled major growth in tire sales, how his team uses DVIs to build trust, and how tools like online scheduling and call tracking boost efficiency. The group also dives into reducing no-shows, leveraging video to tell a shop’s story, and shifting the public perception of the auto repair industry through exceptional customer experiences.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Eric Henley, Owner of H-TEK Tire & Auto Care
Adam Kushner, Owner of AutoBoost Business Actualization
Joe Pfender, Director of Growth & Client Success at AutoBoost Business Actualization
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:03:14] - Eric’s journey from a two-person shop to a seven-bay operation in rural East Tennessee.
[00:04:51] - How search engine “real estate” has replaced static, phone-book style marketing.
[00:08:53] - Rebranding with a tire focus delivers a 75% increase in tire sales.
[00:10:47] - Tracking ROI with a goal of at least 300–400% return on ad spend.
[00:12:21] - Using “Google Whisper” to signal advisors when calls are from paid ads.
[00:13:53] - Tailoring the sales process to match customer expectations for higher close rates.
[00:17:17] - Building brand-driven, locally relevant website content.
[00:21:07] - Three must-have videos: testimonials, owner story, and shop culture.
[00:23:21] - Online scheduling with reminders and warm follow-ups to cut down no-shows.
[00:36:24] - Leveraging Local Service Ads and Google Guaranteed to dominate top search placement.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99j8Iyklbg
 
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________________________________________
Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: So thank you for joining us. Those of you who are here live and those who are joining and the recording, thank you very much. We have lots of questions to ask and lots of people to talk to about our subject today, which is everything to do with your shop and being found and being relevant in any economy no matter what's happening, whether economy is up or down or sideways or backwards.
Jimmy Lea: Whatever that might be, you have to be found. So where are people going? What are they doing? Where are they finding you? Where are they finding your shop? So in order to do this, we've invited Auto Boosto. We've got Adam and Joe joining us from Auto Boosto to talk about what they do as a marketing company with shops and their websites.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for joining us, Joe. 
Joe Pfender: Absolutely. Thanks for having us. 
Jimmy Lea: Yes, and thank you, Adam. Glad that you are here. Honored to be here. Nice, nice. Now you guys are in the same conference room you're sitting across from each other. 
Adam Kushner: Uh, we're in the office. We moved apart a little bit to avoid any echo, but just so that we had, uh, wanted to make sure everybody could see Joe's beautiful face.
Jimmy Lea: That's it. You know, it's all about the Joe Show. It really is. Uh, we were at Tools together and we did some video with Joe and, and he was just so much pent up energy. It's hard to get that boy to stand still. 
Joe Pfender: I did my best Jimmy 
Jimmy Lea: video. It's so good. It's epic. It, it belongs on every bit of YouTube and the internet.
Jimmy Lea: Yo, you did a great job. Thanks, Jimmy. Yes. You, you did. It was, it was the most energy of any video we recorded at Tools, so well done, sir. I appreciate that. Nice, nice. So waving at each other across from the conference table. Hello. Hello. Good to see you everyone. Guys. Hey, and, and joining us for our shop owner today is Eric Hensley with, uh, Eric is with High Tech H Tech.
Jimmy Lea: Are you changing to H Tech or is it High Tech? 
Eric Henley: It's, it's H Tek Tire and Autocare. Yep. 
Jimmy Lea: H Tech Tire Auto Care, Eric Hensley up in the, uh, 
Eric Henley: east Tennessee. 
Jimmy Lea: East Tennessee. I was gonna say you were up in Maine. I, but I knew 
Eric Henley: Sunny East Tennessee, right up in the corner near Bristol. 
Jimmy Lea: Nice. East Tennessee. Nice. And what's the weather like there in Tennessee right now?
Eric Henley: Uh, we're almost 80. It's, we've got a cool spell, so it's pretty nice. 
Jimmy Lea: Hey, 
Eric Henley: that's feeling good. 
Jimmy Lea: I'll tell you, I, I moved to Northern Utah, and, uh, the high yesterday was 94. It felt so good to be at that nice, cool level under a hundred. Wow. We, we live in st. We lived in St. George, Utah, and it was 104 hundred eight on a regular basis.
Jimmy Lea: So to go to 94, you can tell. Hmm, that's a 10, 10 degrees swing. Yeah, it was feeling pretty good. Feeling pretty good. 
Speaker 5: Nice. 
Jimmy Lea: So, Eric, thank you for joining. So glad that you're here with us. We can have this conversation talking about you and your shop and your business. You were recently on with us last December, talking about your shop as well.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. But for those who are joining for the first time, give us a little breakdown of, of who you are, what your shop is, what it looks like. They're in east Tennessee. 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so we're in, uh, right in the corner of the state, very rural area. Uh, been in business now 19 years. Uh, started just me and myself, um, me and my father.
Eric Henley: And, um, now we're at Seven Bays and a full staff. Uh, and, uh, we've grown tremendously through the years. So, uh. Not sure where else you want. 
Jimmy Lea: No, man, I'll tell you, that's, that's fan fascinating. 19 years in business. So I, marketing wise, you have seen a lot of changes that have come through the years. Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Lea: Because I think back 19 years ago when I started my business, it was like, okay, you have to have a full page ad in the newspaper. It's $1,500 a month. Mm-hmm. Yep. Holy crap. Yep. And, and my town had three new, uh, three phone books. 
Eric Henley: I remember the first time they pitched me, SEO was through, uh, Dex and they were pitching me $2,500 a month.
Eric Henley: Yeah. And I couldn't afford $500 a month when we started, so they were like, no, the business will come. And we're like, eh, not sure. So, uh, major difference in what we, the way we market now compared to what we did back then. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Made, made huge differences. Uh, mine was a, a little eighth inch. I had a one inch, uh, ad in the phone book.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And I was still a hundred bucks a month. I had to pay for that one inch. And I had three phone books, so it was 300 bucks a anyways. Uh, yeah. You've seen a marketing change a lot where going from phone books to websites, websites just became a picture of that. Mm-hmm. Phone book. Mm-hmm. Yep. Very static.
Jimmy Lea: No dynamics to it whatsoever. But there was so much that we could do with that. Uh, Joe, Adam, what did you guys do to take it from a, a static phone book website to something more dynamic? 
Adam Kushner: Well, and I just made a comment in the chat, you know, back, I remember those days as well. Um. Uh, you know, 20 years ago when, uh, when we were looking at Yellow page ads and negotiating on space, and that was the search engine result page, right?
Adam Kushner: That's where someone opened up and you had to capture their attention by having the most real estate on the page and having, you know, a website that performs well and shows up organically is extremely important because that's one piece of that real estate. Um, and then, yeah, pay to play Google ads. Um, you know, now with Google local service ads, you're paying twice to be on the same page.
Adam Kushner: Potentially if they 
Jimmy Lea: click on it, right? 
Adam Kushner: Yeah, yeah. Or if they call you with local service ads. Um, and then it's everything else. You know, the Yellow Pages didn't really have local listing directories, and that was one other way to get on the search engine result page. Um, and we call that the real estate of the, the serp, the real estate of the search engine result page, where, you know, you can be into a thread on Reddit where people are having a conversation about the best place to take their car, and that's ranking on Google and maybe your website's not even ranking, but they click through to that Reddit conversation and they see everybody talking about how you're the best, hopefully.
Adam Kushner: And, uh, that's one more place that you get to show up. So, uh, definitely some evolution since the days of the phone book. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure, for sure. Eric. And when it comes to you and your marketing and Google, and Google ads and local ads search and, and everything that's Google's doing, how much of that have you researched to learn on your own versus, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna hire a guy to help out.
Eric Henley: So we have the group process, which has been an education for that, both with you and the institute. And then, uh, Joe has been quite the teacher, uh, between he and, uh, the, uh, representative from Auto Vitals. Uh, they both together have collaborated and really taught me a lot of things about what is effective online, what to do, and we know how to fix cars.
Eric Henley: They know how to turn the knobs on the internet and make things work better for you. And they're very interactive with you. 
Jimmy Lea: And you said auto vitals? Yes. Did you mean auto boosts? I'm sorry. You've been working with both? Well, yes. With both. Yes. So, oh, that's phenomenal. So what, what did, what are some of those things that you have learned that you can do as a shop owner versus he?
Jimmy Lea: These are the things I'm gonna hire auto boost and auto vitals to do for me. 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so the content was one thing. Our content was old and tired, and it was 2016, I guess, uh, version. So we had to update that. And then from there, that basically gives them the machine, uh, of the words to make it work and make it work locally.
Eric Henley: Uh, versus falling two pages down, uh, you become the top band guy, or at least in the top on the first page. Uh, so, and we rely, most of our advertisement advertisement now is with Google and Google AdWords. So these guys, uh, they're making a shine and, uh, I think it, it's reflected in the reviews as well. Oh, that's so 
Jimmy Lea: good.
Eric Henley: Yep. That's 
Jimmy Lea: so good. Yeah. The most important thing for any Google ad, any ROI on those ad spend is making that phone ring. 
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yep. And then they offer you all kinds of tools to see what's, what's calling, who's calling the type of customer, and then they can make adjustments on the fly to, to change up, you know, say you're not hitting, say it's tires.
Eric Henley: We, we rebranded this year with tires. We're up 75% in tire sales and they're doing sponsored ads for us. So, uh. It's a, it's amazing the result just in tires this year, just from the rebrand and then what they're doing to advertise for us. Um, 
Jimmy Lea: well that's phenomenal. So, so do, do you have a, a dashboard or do you have a, how do you track your return on investment with what you're spending on Google Ads versus, uh, what Auto Boosts is making the phone ring?
Eric Henley: So we meet about once a month, uh, Joe, uh, and he's got the Google Analytics. Um. Dashboard and there are tons of metrics, things, I don't know. And so each time 
Jimmy Lea: there's metrics on top of metrics in your Google analytics. I, we know this. 
Eric Henley: And, and he and he, uh, each time I learn a little bit more about what that means and how that affects, uh, our searches.
Eric Henley: Uh, and he can tell me what words are being searched. You know, it's amazing the, the amount of data. That they provide. Oh, 
Joe Pfender: I mean. 
Eric Henley: I 
Joe Pfender: mean, we're getting into the weeds, talking about, um, I mean down to the campaign or the keyword level, how we're allocating Eric's budget, and from that perspective, how it's being spent.
Joe Pfender: And then the next layer that he was referring to beyond just Google Analytics, Eric can log into our call tracking platform. Look at the calls generated from Google Ads. There's advanced features for scoring leads, so it's true visibility into the results, and then the connection between marketing and sales.
Joe Pfender: Um, so you know, a lot of features and a lot of tools to give clients that visibility to justify the investment and understand what they're actually getting for the investment in Google Ads. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. What, what kind of a return do you auto boosts do you promote for shop owners? What should they expect to get from their Google ads?
Joe Pfender: Sure. Um, so we do have a, what we call a revenue attribution tool that, um, is in a beta right now. Um, we had about, uh, 50 ish clients, uh, towards the end of 2024 on our revenue attribution tool. And the average roas or return on ad spend was about 700%. So that means that the average client was making $7 in revenue per dollar spent in Google ads.
Joe Pfender: Um, I've seen higher than that. Though we see a benchmark or what we should be aiming for at a minimum is about three to hundred, 300 to 400% ROAS on Google Ads. So we're looking at a minimum three to $4 in revenue per dollar spent. 
Adam Kushner: Well, and then working backwards from there. Right. Because, um, you know, as Joe kind of touched on briefly, it's that connection between marketing and sales and working with, working with the shop owner and, and with the team.
Adam Kushner: You know, that's picking the phone up and that's fielding those leads. Um. And then giving them visibility into, um, you know, the phone call where they can use it for sales training. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, they can, uh, help us with feedback to optimize. Um, so being engaged like that with your marketing is extremely important.
Adam Kushner: And even if it's not Google Ads, you know, anywhere that those leads are coming from, um. To make sure that, that you're working with your marketing company. Uh, 'cause it's not just, you know, checking the box of I'm, I'm doing Google ads, or I have a website. Um, it goes way beyond that, you know, to sales actions that are being, being taken within the business.
Eric Henley: Oh yeah, sure. And then one other thing I was gonna mention, you mentioned the calls. So they help us set up the Google Whisper. So now we know if it's a Google generated call and we know, uh, the sales process might be a little bit different. So you get a little heads up before you answer. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, isn't that great?
Jimmy Lea: That, that's awesome, because now a service advisor can be with the understanding that this phone call is costing the company 10 bucks, 12 bucks, 15 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever it is. Maybe it's a buck 50. Depends on the keyword that's being spent on, but it, uh, this is a very valuable phone call. Yep. You better close, you better make an appointment.
Jimmy Lea: You better close a deal. 
Eric Henley: Yeah. And then we created a, a Google Doc, uh, to track those calls as well. So they, they, they, they, they'll, the advisor will type in. What the call was, what it was about, whether it was converted or not. Uh, and so he and I can interact, uh, the next month and say, okay, these are the calls we're getting.
Eric Henley: What, what is, is this working well? Could we change something up to where we get this call versus that call? 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, interesting. Yep. So what have you found that is, uh, working the best with your advisors right now? What are they able to close quickly and easily? 
Eric Henley: So it it with the, with the DEI, the transparency with that and the value, um, they pre-sell before, uh, the customer ever gets there.
Eric Henley: Uh, and then the intake process, we changed it up some. So we asked for the expectation, uh, what is your expectation? You wanna drive it to the wheels fall off, or do you just wanna fix what's broken? Now you, you, you still, you still do the 300% rule. You still do a great DVI. It's just the manner in which you come at the customer, uh, post DVI, and it, it's, it's just a way of framing, uh, the way you present the estimate in a way that's non-offensive.
Eric Henley: And then you, for those that come to you, this as a podcast I listened to the other day. Another way to do that, if you say you've got a customer who comes in who thinks they know what's wrong already. You can use that to your advantage and say, you know, you were dead on. We have performed tests and procedures and confirmed that what you said is right and we're not gonna waste your money by replacing a component that doesn't need.
Eric Henley: So it's just those little new it instead of, Hey, this is Joe with Joe's Garage. It's a warm grating, it's interaction, uh, it's setting the expectation. And then get then providing 'em with a great customer experience and then if you screw up, own it and, and make it right. So, 
Jimmy Lea: yeah. 
Eric Henley: Oh, that's powerful. 
Jimmy Lea: And did you hear that, Joe?
Jimmy Lea: You now own Joe's Garage? I guess so. I, I know a guy that can help you with your website, Joe, so. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah, I know a guy too, 
Jimmy Lea: Adam. Uh, we need to hook up Joe with a Joe's garage. Sounds good. We'll 
Adam Kushner: get 'em some t-shirts too. 
Jimmy Lea: T-shirt. Oh yeah. I love it. I love it. So you, uh, I I love that you're educating the customer.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, I've always said that an educated customer, an educated client, makes better decisions. So those DDIs, even though it's a, it's an inspection sheet, it's goes so much into marketing as well. Mm-hmm. Marketing your business, but marketing the, the effectiveness of your business, the effectiveness of your inspections.
Jimmy Lea: I, I'm grateful for those dvs. There were three cars we were looking at buying, and with the DVI, we paid 160 bucks per inspection. Mm-hmm. Thank you for the shop for doing this and avoided some serious headaches. 
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yep. Pre-buy inspection. Yep. Better than post buyer. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah. We found some nefarious, uh, things that a used car dealership was doing with a Honda to bring that O2 sensor out of, uh, out of the flow.
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know what that is. I've seen that done before. Yeah. It's a little sketchy 
Jimmy Lea: now in their defense. I don't think it was the used car dealership that was doing it. I think the previous owner had done it because the patina was way too. It was old. It wasn't something, it wasn't new. Like they, they had just done it.
Jimmy Lea: So I, I think they bought it that way, but we weren't gonna buy that headache or that problem, that that's not where we wanted to go. So I appreciate you doing the dvs, the 300% rule. Yep. Look at everything, estimate everything, show everything to the clients, and, and it's their decision. 
Eric Henley: Well, one other thing I wanted to talk about, 'cause we talked about content and about upgrading that, so.
Eric Henley: With the institute's training on, uh, brand and how important context statements are in the way they affect your brand. So just to be sure you've got your mission, your vision, your values, operating principles down, and then wrap your content around that. Make sure it, it talks about those things and live it out.
Eric Henley: You know, you, you have to live those. They, they can't be just something on the wall. It has to be what you believe in. I think that really, that gives you great content and that gives them something to really make you shine on, on the web versus, uh, you know, somebody how their own site built or maybe their some parts vendor site built it for them.
Eric Henley: Uh, your website looks way different than anybody else's, and, and it speaks locally to your, to who you're trying to attract too. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Adam, when you're setting up a website for a shop, how many, how many pages do you set up a shop with, or how much customization does a shop allowed in developing their website?
Adam Kushner: Well, there's definitely no one size fits all. Um, but Eric kind of, you know, he hit the point with making sure that your website represents your brand. Um, you know, we like to say represent your brand, resonates with your local market and, and that it tells your story that it's a differentiator. Um, because if someone does click through on that search engine result, and you know, they're not just calling a phone number that's showing up in Google Maps and, and they're looking at your website, that's affecting their decision to buy and to do business with you.
Adam Kushner: So making sure that it's not cookie cutter content. Uh, making sure that you're not using stock images with people in them that are not your employees or your customers. Um. Making sure that, you know, do the best that you can with the curb appeal that you have with your business to, to take, take pictures and, and to present, you know, what the customer is gonna see and experience once they arrive.
Adam Kushner: Um, so, you know, video is extremely important in, you know, the most authentic way that you can tell a story. Uh, so we always just encourage shop owners to, to invest in video. Um, and it doesn't have to be in your shop, you know, it can be the owner telling their story and why they do what they do and why they're passionate about it.
Adam Kushner: And I mean, that's where I want to take my shop, right? I don't want to take it to, you know, we've got 30 shops within five miles of us, and you know, which one is the, the true, authentic, the, from the owner down to the guy taking the trash out. They all care about the customer. Oh yeah, 
Jimmy Lea: that's important. 
Adam Kushner: So, so getting that, you know, into your digital presence is extremely important.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. There is so much information you can show on video. There's so much you can put in that B roll that doesn't have to be said. You can observe it, you can see it, you can see it happening Professionally, done video is definitely the way to go. I, and I always say that there's three videos you definitely want on your website, uh, Joe or Adam.
Jimmy Lea: What videos do you highly recommend shop owners have on their website? 
Adam Kushner: I'm gonna let you guess what Jimmy was gonna say, Joe. 
Joe Pfender: Well, I think customer testimonials is one for sure. Um, you know, another example, and I mean, Adam alluded to this before, having the auto shop owner talk about why he started the shop, especially when we're talking about, you know, helping people and delivering the best service and keeping people safe.
Joe Pfender: Um, you know, those are two things that come to my mind immediately. Um, and then a third one, Adam, what would you say? 
Adam Kushner: Well, just like a, a, a culture video, you know, other than the owner, but it would be, you know, the employees talking about why they work there. Um, and, uh, you know, that overarching about us, you know, where it's, um, you know, having the owner, you know, talk about, um, why he's passionate about what you do.
Adam Kushner: You know, pictures of happy, smiling customers and service advisors. And, uh, and painting the picture you know of, of your culture and, and what it's like at your shop. Um, you know, especially today, right? You can have customers that never even step foot on the property or they drop their car off after hours.
Adam Kushner: You know, they pick it up before you open and they never even interact with anybody that works at your company. Literally, right. Like never even on the phone, just through text messages. Um, so you can't even hear their voice, um, for them to, you know, have that, um, you know, communication that, that communicates who they are as a company.
Adam Kushner: So you can do it with video, um, even with audio ads. Oh, for sure. 
Jimmy Lea: Eric, have you ever had a client that fits what Adam's talking about, which is a mirror image of me? Where you're texting the client all the time, but uh, you really don't ever get to see them. Have you ever had those clients? 
Eric Henley: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Henley: Especially during, uh, COVID we had a lot of people that didn't wanna come in and so that, that became a kind of a normal thing. Uh, and we still have that now. Now we really stress a at least conversation after the DBI sent, uh, 'cause we really want that. Uh. Endearment. We want that personal touch. Uh, we want stand out in the way we speak to them different than any other shop.
Eric Henley: Uh, so, uh, we still, we still, uh, promote that, but there are existing customers who trust us that would rather just approved, go ahead, do it, you know, and let me know when it's done. Yeah, those are the 
Jimmy Lea: key tossers. They toss you the keys and say, tell me when they can pick it up. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta love that.
Jimmy Lea: Those are good. Those are really cool. Well, what about, um, online scheduling, Eric, how important has that become to your shop? 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so we, we have another, uh, integration we use for that now and uh, it definitely frees up time for the service advisor, uh, 'cause it'll pop into the calendar. We've got the parameters, set the rules, and, uh, so it knows when it's open, uh, or, or, or if there's a waiting appointment available.
Eric Henley: And they don't, I mean, it saves them on the call so they can build estimates and sell work, manage workflow in the shop and not be on the phone as much. So yeah, we definitely use that, uh, uh, a lot more than, than, uh, and it's, it's unified now too. So a lot of the new softwares will not only take your website book appointment button, but they'll take your, uh, Google My Business button and they all you not to the same funnel and it lands in your calendar and it gathers more data to even some AI components that will, uh, are intuitive.
Eric Henley: They'll learn. The direction that customer's going with their, uh, description and asks more for clarity. So there's less of, um, mistakes on, uh, intake. Uh, so it improves that as well. 
Jimmy Lea: That's good. What, uh, having the, uh, online scheduling, I know it's like super valuable. It, it's something that I always utilize for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, and because I, I drop it off early or the night before and, and let you have the car all day and I'll pick it up in two or three days whenever you're done. Mm-hmm. And we can rearrange that. Um, what, what about the, uh, uh, what are you doing to assure that those who will online schedule with you actually show up?
Eric Henley: Uh, so there is a reminder, uh, text that goes out, uh, 24 hours before. Uh, to remind them and we get them. I see 'em in the replies. Uh, the guys get it in a conversation center, but I, I see 'em in the, in a, in the business email, and I'll look through to see how many reply. There's a lot of 'em just, yes, or maybe they've got some other statement they put in there, but, uh, that's, that's how they confirms it.
Eric Henley: And then, uh, then that, that's pretty much it. The reminder, if they miss the appointment. Uh, there's a way, uh, one of the integrations, uh, if they began a, they call it a lead, if they began a lead and then didn't complete it. So it already gathers their name, it gathers their phone number, and from there we have a nice warm text that's already created.
Eric Henley: It's past it in, they create a profile, I guess, enough to contact that customer and then send a nice, warm text out that, Hey, noticed you started to book an appointment, must have run into a problem or something. How can we help you with that and go ahead and get you scheduled in. Uh, and you'd be surprised how many of those convert.
Eric Henley: Uh, maybe it's an older person or wasn't used to, used to going down that and for some reason they didn't call. 
Speaker 5: Yeah. 
Eric Henley: So, uh. So, yeah, that's, it's definitely helped with that. And then, uh, the reminders that go out, uh, 30, 60, 90 day reminders to keep you busy for all declined work. Oh, really? Uh, yeah. If you've got, I mean, that's, if, if you did a great DBI and say they did their breaks and there was fluids and whatever else declined, uh, you create an automated.
Eric Henley: Text blast and, and you remind them every 30, 60, 90 days, and you'd be surprised how many times on the calendar you say, Mrs. Jones returning for recommended work from last service. 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I would, I would be surprised as well. 
Eric Henley: Yep. 
Adam Kushner: Well, and as a, a marketing company, I mean that's, that's why a relationship with a business owner like Eric can be successful because he's doing all of the other things that need to happen after the click, you know, after that initial ARRA interaction that we can trust that his sales team is taking every action that they can to make sure that that lead converts into revenue in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: You know that, that's an interesting point you bring up there, Adam. What? What do you see that Eric does that other shops don't? That is that difference that makes him just that much more successful in his conversions. 
Adam Kushner: Well, everything that he just spoke about Yeah. Is, you know, it's a differentiator if his competition is not doing that and, um, you know, someone's scheduling an appointment and then not showing up because it wasn't convenient or, you know, something else came up, you know, following up with them to make sure that you get 'em back in to the shop, um, and recapture that, you know, the, you know, unsold service work.
Adam Kushner: Where, you know, keeping the customer from going back to Google and searching for the next automotive repair shop when Anita arises, but keeping your brand name in front of them. So even if they do go back and search for an automotive repair shop, that they already, they recognize you and they remember you and they remember the positive experience that they had.
Adam Kushner: So they choose you again. 
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 
Adam Kushner: And that's something that's happening, you know, not just with automotive repair, that consumers are just not, um. Not necessarily defaulting back to the same business that they used previously. 
Jimmy Lea: No, they're not. They, it is like, they forget about that oil sticker that's up there in the corner.
Jimmy Lea: They don't remember to come back. Um, you know, um, Kyle has a really good question that he's put into, uh, the chat here. I have an issue with this too. Some clients see that as impersonal. The texts going back to confirm an appointment. Where, uh, would there be a better way for us to reach out for that appointment Confirmation.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, because they get so many appointment requests and no follow through. So I'm guessing that Kyle, you probably have a, a pretty high no show rate. Is that what you're saying there? Uh, and to his question, Joe, what, what advice would you give to Kyle? How can he improve his process? 
Joe Pfender: Sure. Um, I mean, we could always be following up with those customers, right?
Joe Pfender: I mean, I think that we'll see some existing customers that may be going to, um, you know, an appointment scheduler to book, uh, simple services, right? Like oil change, something that's gonna be routine, right? We may see more of those customers calling to actually have a conversation, ask questions, and discuss with the shop.
Joe Pfender: Um. I think that, I mean, at some level, yeah. Kyle says a 20% no show, no show rate. So, um, 
Adam Kushner: is that high or low, or is that 
Joe Pfender: okay? Well, it's just Joe, it's the, 
Adam Kushner: it's the reality of working with consumers, right? Like, I'm the guy that if my dentist doesn't call me the day before, they know I'm not gonna show up. And I, I love, know, and trust 'em.
Adam Kushner: Right, but, but I need that reminder and that kind of personal touch. 'cause I'm, I'm a busy guy. I, I don't see all the, I can barely respond to friends and family with a text message. So cutting through that chatter is extremely important. You know, there's services out there where it's straight to voicemail where, you know, you don't have to get the customer on the phone, but.
Adam Kushner: That's another way to potentially have that touchpoint. You know, something that I used to do in training service advisors is the day before, you know, making those phone calls, especially during slow times, right? Because that's when you can't afford to not have a no-show or to have a no-show. A no-show could be a technician going home early, so, you know.
Adam Kushner: Having a service advisor do that one more thing, you know, or having a customer service person within your company, um, it can be an extremely important thing. And, and just making sure the customer shows up because as a business owner, right, Eric, you spent so much money to generate that phone call and to get that even scheduled appointment 
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Adam Kushner: That, you know, the person not showing up is wasted marketing dollars. It's, 
Eric Henley: yep. Yeah. Again, like what? You said's lost productivity too. You end up sending a, uh, technician home early, uh, because of that. So one of the things that you can, you can do, and we mentioned, um, I mentioned personalizing the, the text message, but the reminders, depending on what software you're using, you can actually, uh, some of these offer the ability to, uh, personalize the 30 day, 60 day reminder.
Eric Henley: So it's not just. Automated canned looking text. It's, it's, Hey, notice that you're coming in today. You know, whatever you can, you can, you can warm it up and make it fit the culture that you, you want presented the, and, and with that, I think your conversion of appointments will go up. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. 
Eric Henley: Especially the reminder part of it.
Eric Henley: But even, even the appointments, uh, just the little extra things that you do just to stand out. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. And, and depending on that software, it can input their name and their vehicle 
Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 
Jimmy Lea: Into it. But something that I've also done and and done with quite a few different shops is to go into chat GPT and say, this is who my shop is.
Jimmy Lea: This is what we do, da, da, da, da. Give it a good history. So chat understands who you are and what your culture is. Also include your website. Mm-hmm. So as a reference, here's my website and here's what we do to make sure that we stand out as different. Yep. Chat, give me eight or nine different text messages that are personable, warm, relatable relationship building.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. So that they want to come back to us. With those eight, you're gonna look at 'em and go, all right, love, love, hate, hate, love, love, hate, hate, love. You take those ones that you love, put 'em into the rotation. So now when you're communicating with the customer, they see that communication, it's not the same can message that it was previously.
Jimmy Lea: It's, it's a new message. 
Eric Henley: Yeah. We, uh, we did an exercise a couple months ago, I think in HPG, uh, and this went, this goes to already having your contact statement, so. You can take and paste all that into chat and then ask it for a, uh, unique selling points other than the ones that are like normal, like through your 36,000 mile like a SE certified.
Eric Henley: What, what kind of statements can we put out there that fit our culture, that fit the message we want out there and stay away from the generic ones that everybody else uses and, and you can tell it all kinds of stuff and it, it will. It's amazing what you can do to make yourself different than the next shop down the street just.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it, it really is. It really is. And, and Eric, you mentioned HPG, for those who don't understand the high performance group with the institute. The High Performance Group is, is a group of shop owners that are looking to do one of two things. Either they're looking to expand their kingdom and grow it, or they're going to optimize a single location into a multimillion dollar.
Jimmy Lea: Per month, uh, per year location. 
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 
Jimmy Lea: So that HPG works very closely with, uh, Mr. Michael Hertzberg Smith. In developing your strategy, what do you want to do? Do you want to optimize the one, do you want to grow the kingdom? What's your exit strategy? Are you selling to a key employee or a child? Or are you looking to build the kingdom and then sell it to private equity?
Jimmy Lea: But you still want to have your toe in the. In the, in the water, so you still have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry. These are all things that Michael can do with shop owners and develop the right strategy so that down the road when you do decide to sell, you're able to get top dollar for your shop because it is ready, it is optimized, it is packaged properly for the best sell.
Jimmy Lea: For those shop owners that wanna sell, they needed to start three years ago. So if you wanna sell in three years, you better start today to get your shop in line and get it ready to go. 
Eric Henley: Yep. Uh, one other thing I wanted to mention about these guys, and, uh, Joe and I talked about this at our last meeting, so it's the Google guaranteed thing.
Eric Henley: Uh, it is really starting to click now. So we, we are going, uh, they're gonna help us with that. Uh, it's a process to get through it, but, uh. Uh, what they can do with ads with that are really, you drill down to local level. Now they do cost more, but you can actually, uh, score them and then ask for one to be removed if it was the wrong call.
Eric Henley: So you don't pay for that. Click. Nice. 
Speaker 5: Uh, 
Eric Henley: but these guys are gonna, uh, that's gonna be the next thing for us, uh, to, to make us stand out just a little more as did, and you guys can expound on that if you want to. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah, I was just gonna jump in and, and talk a little bit about that. So, um, this is called Local Service Ads.
Joe Pfender: It's a newer Google Ads service. Um, it actually operates separately from what traditional Google Ads does with a different model. Traditional Google Ads is pay per click as opposed to local services. Uh, local service ads being paid per lead. Um. So there's a little bit less targeting granularity as what we have with traditional Google Ads.
Joe Pfender: But, um, you get the calls from within the Google Ads user interface, and then you can go in and you can accept them or you can reject them. Um. You know, absolute. Or obviously Google Ads charging you for qualified leads and then you can contest poor leads and attempt to have Google Pay you back. Um, and you know, an important point there is that with local service ads, Google Vets your business, they give you a Google guaranteed badge and the placement as at the very top of the search engine results page, even ahead of what the traditional Google ad placement would be.
Joe Pfender: So in a perfect world, you have the local service ad placement at the top of the page with a Google guaranteed badge. Underneath that, you have a regular Google ad. And then underneath that you have an organic placement within the organic map pack that's dominating the search engine results page and building credibility with the consumer as they scroll down the page.
Joe Pfender: If they don't choose the two ads at the top, they're probably gonna choose you in the organic map pack because it's clear who the best choice is for service as that consumer evaluates their options on the search engine results page. 
Jimmy Lea: And it's amazing when you do that, when you do those searches, Joe, because when you go to page two, that's where you find all the dead bodies.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, but nobody, nobody goes to page two. They really don't. Most don't even 
Joe Pfender: go past, they don't even go past the map pack. Right. They're gonna see the ads at the top. There's three placements within the map pack, and some people will look further than that, but most people, I don't think that's the case.
Eric Henley: Yeah, 
Joe Pfender: it really isn't. 
Eric Henley: Your new movers are gonna click at the top. If they're new to your area, that's where they're going. 
Adam Kushner: Well, if there's local search intent, right, um, then that's what's being served to them. You know, if, if someone's doing more of a informative search of, you know, this is what's wrong with my car, and Google's not showing a map pack, but, um.
Adam Kushner: You know, with that local search intent and having that prominence in the map pack with local service ads is, is definitely an important thing, um, especially when your competition is probably not leveraging that type of ad campaign inside of Google. 
Joe Pfender: This is a point that I also wanna jump in and make that, um, it's early on for local service ads.
Joe Pfender: So if you work through the process of, um, Google does a background check, business registration, there's a pretty intense vetting process, but it's, it's probable that you're gonna be one of the first in your market to leverage local service ads. So the takeaway there is it's never gonna be cheaper than it is right now from a cost per lead perspective, because.
Joe Pfender: You wanna beat your competition to the punch with leveraging new Google ad services. Early adopters are always rewarded. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And the fact that you can contest some of those results to say, Hey, well this was a guy calling me to sell insurance. This was a gal calling to sell me printer cartridges. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's that's not, yeah, that's not for the shop. So that, that's very cool that Google has that. Yeah. And Google's a marketing company. That's what they're doing. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah. Uh, they make it easy for you to give them your dollars unless it's managed properly. Right. Um, so, um, 
Eric Henley: yeah. And didn't you mention, uh, it also, some of it has some AI built into it, so you may not even need to, uh, is it decline the call?
Eric Henley: It knows whether it was a quality call or not, so there are, there is some proofing involved, but some of it, they proof for you, so Right. Eventually that's it. 
Adam Kushner: As it gain more traction, you know, it's been out for a little while. A anything new. We wanna make sure that it's a fit for our client's business model, um, that we can support them in rolling it out seamlessly.
Adam Kushner: And, um. You know, over the months, as, as Google has refined it with what you're mentioning, Eric, where they're starting to just automatically reject the lead as they learn how people talk about an automotive repair shop. Um, you know, prior to automotive, there's other services businesses that Google rolled local service ads out to.
Adam Kushner: Um. And then they continue to expand it. And I always like to say it's whatever Google's new toy is, uh, you want to take advantage of because they're vetting it. They want feedback and they want to improve it, uh, to make sure that it's profitable to the, the customer, you know, the business owner that's advertising, um, and that they're gonna be able to scale it.
Adam Kushner: Um, so it's, you know. Definitely taking advantage of whatever's new, um, you know, that Google or any other marketing platform has that you can leverage to have the competitive advantage over your, over the shop down the street. 
Joe Pfender: Yep. Yep. Totally agree. You know, something that I noticed, um, to Eric's point, yes, Google's AI will kick in, um, after a certain time threshold and attempt to score the lead, but the clients that are doing it manually and also giving feedback to Google on what they see as a non-qualified lead.
Joe Pfender: Seem to be getting the best results. And I think what's happening is that Google is rewarding the accounts that are engaging with them the most and providing feedback they're giving you, or you're getting more results for providing more data to Google as they refine this, as not just something that, um, you know, is, is new in the last couple months, six months.
Joe Pfender: I'm not exactly sure what the timeline is there, but it's here to stay. 
Jimmy Lea: That's true. That's true. Well, that's good. Well, so, uh, as we circle now and look into land, this plane here, as we're talking about marketing and talking about websites, we're talking about SEO, we're talking about Google and Google ads, local ads.
Jimmy Lea: If you had a magic wand and could wave at Joe, then Adam, then Eric, what would you change in the automotive aftermarket, Joe? 
Joe Pfender: Magic wand. Magic wand. What would I change in the automotive aftermarket? You're putting me on the spot, Jimmy. Um hmm. I'm gonna punt this one to Adam.
Adam Kushner: Well, I, I don't know. You know, I, I've been doing this my entire life. Um, literally my entire life. I, you know. Probably made the first website for an automotive repair shop before anybody knew you needed a website. Um, you know, on Google Ads. You know, walking into a group of shop owners and saying, this is the most important thing that you can do, Google ads.
Adam Kushner: And, you know, they all look at me like I'm crazy because they have no idea what it is. Um, you know, if I was gonna change one thing about our industry from a marketing perspective, um, it would be, you know, look outside of the box. And, you know, don't just look at what your competitors are doing, or your friend that has a shop across the country is doing.
Adam Kushner: Look outside of the automotive space, you know, when you're interacting with businesses. It's, it's taking that active role. Um, I was telling a story in the office about, uh, calling my eye doctor to get an appointment, to get a new pair of glasses and have them redo my prescription with an eye exam. And they're, you know, well, it'll be two months.
Adam Kushner: And, you know, first of all, I had to call them Jimmy. And you know, I don't like to call someone to make an appointment. Yeah. I wanna be able to do it online and in a seamless way. Um, but I had to call them and then they told me two months. And I'm like, well, my glasses are scratching. I need new glasses.
Adam Kushner: Well, we can get you in a month and a half. And it's like, well you just lost a customer. 
Speaker 5: Yeah. You know, 
Adam Kushner: whether, I know, I still know, like, and trust them, but. If, if you're not gonna make an exception for me and help me, and that's friction in that relationship and it's identifying, you know, where that is in your marketing, where that is in your sales process and, and focusing on sales enablement and um, and then even, you know, when the customer gets to the shop and, um.
Adam Kushner: So, you know, looking outside of our space with all of your other interactions at what you can apply to your business, um, and then understanding it's not just all about marketing. You know, marketing can put your shop in front of the ideal customer, encourage them to choose you. Um, but it's, you know, it's a partnership between us and a shop owner.
Adam Kushner: And for it to work, it has to be a partnership to be successful. 
Jimmy Lea: I love that. I love that and I love that you're encouraging shop owners to think more dynamic or rather than static. Don't do the standard the same as everybody else. Let's make it bigger, bolder, better. Look at other industries. What are they doing?
Jimmy Lea: How can we implement their best practices in what we're doing? Uh, I love that. Thank you Adam. Really appreciate that. Eric, the magic wand is now to you. Mm-hmm. 
Eric Henley: So you all know, and many people in auto repair land know the perception the public has of us, of our industry. There's 266,000 of us, I think in the, in the US that run independent auto repair shops.
Eric Henley: And, and the, the outstanding thing that we're perceived as is dishonest. Untrustworthy. So we, that's part of our vision statement, is to transform that perception of our industry, to make a difference for the future and to act with integrity no matter what. Whether we make money on it or whether we, we screwed up, we hung the wrong part on it, we're gonna, our commitment is that, so.
Eric Henley: And then the other thing is the best customer experience that, that they can, like no other shop does. We talk on a level they understand, we get to know them as a person, as a family. We remember things about them. And uh, so when they come to us, it's not just throwing their keys at us. They hope we do 'em right.
Eric Henley: They, they know we're gonna do them right. We're gonna be honest. We are gonna treat them exceptionally well. And that's, that's what we're after. 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Thank you Eric. Thank you for emphasizing, uh, the, the, that we want to build our image in the industry. We wanna build the image of the automotive aftermarket, and I'm all about that.
Jimmy Lea: In fact, that's what we are about here at the institute is better business. For you, which in result is a better life for you and your shop, your techs, your service advisors. Better business, better life, better industry that helps us to improve the industry overall. So as we lock arms together and we all make this trip together, we can do it.
Jimmy Lea: We can be that difference in the, in the entire world. And Erica, I'll join you in that battle to change the image of the aftermarket. To be the trusted partners for our clients so that they understand we are the right place for you to bring your vehicle to. We'll keep you safe on the road. 'cause keeping you safe on the road helps also to protect me and my family to keep us safe on the road as well.
Jimmy Lea: So I love that and I love that you're implementing that 300% rule on all cars every single time digital vehicle inspections. That's super awesome. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thank you for your, uh, input and your knowledge, your sharing. And uh, gosh dang, this has been such a great conversation. I, I, I love when it comes to marketing and the things that you can do as a shop and shop owner, there's some things you can do yourself as a shop owner, but there's definitely some guidance that you would be very wise to hire.
Jimmy Lea: A coach for or to hire, uh, a professional with Auto Boosto and have them help you, whether it's Joe or Adam. Thank you very much. You guys been a great day. I look forward to talking to you again soon and we'll see you all soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks Jimmy, 
Speaker 5: everyone. See you guys. Thanks.

135 - "Ask Me Anything" Session with Cecil Bullard & Lucas Underwood

135 - "Ask Me Anything" Session with Cecil Bullard & Lucas Underwood
July 23, 2025 - 00:56:34
Show Summary:
In this AMA-style episode where Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard dive deep into leadership, shop management, and real-world challenges auto repair shop owners face. Cecil shares his personal journey from resenting his father’s shop to running multiple successful businesses and eventually founding The Institute. The duo tackles essential questions on hiring, pay plans, morale during slow periods, extended warranties, and pricing strategies. They emphasize how attitude and simple systems can drastically improve outcomes. The episode wraps up with marketing insights and the critical mindset shifts needed to sustain long-term success in the automotive industry.
 
Host(s):
Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:34] - Cecil’s entry into the industry after a career-ending injury
[00:03:52] - Transition from shop ownership to coaching
[00:07:57] - First lever to pull during slow months: morale
[00:13:03] - Structuring hybrid pay plans for technicians
[00:19:11] - Gross profit per hour vs. overall gross profit
[00:28:22] - Handling extended warranty work in your shop
[00:34:00] - Marketing for performance vs. general repair
[00:41:56] - Dealing with toxic employees and bad hires
[00:44:30] - Buying new equipment vs. increasing car count
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
 
Lucas Underwood: Welcome everybody. I'm here with Cecil Bullard. My name's Lucas Underwood. We're here for an AMA Cecil. How you doing, buddy? 
Cecil Bullard: I'm great, brother. I'm always great. 
Lucas Underwood: Yes sir. Yes sir. So, uh, we've, uh, we've been through a lot together. You're my current business coach and we've had a lot of really cool stuff happening and, and we've been through some struggles.
Lucas Underwood: We've been through some wins and been through some losses and I'm, I'm honored to have you on my team and working through this with me. And the folks from the management group and, and helping us work with our managers here in the shop. And so, um, excited to be here for the a MA today and, uh, excited to see what all it is that we're gonna talk about and, and the questions we're gonna have here.
Lucas Underwood: Csil. I'm gonna kick it off kind of with you and, and let's talk a little bit about you. I know there's a lot of folks in the room who know who you are, but would you care to share with the ones who don't know who you are? A little bit about your history and, and where the institute came from? 
Cecil Bullard: Dad had a shop, uh, grew up in, uh, didn't have a lot to do with it because dad was, you know, he was overprotective.
Cecil Bullard: So it wasn't fun for me to be there. Uh, we didn't make a lot of money. Uh, dad was always at work. Uh, I resented the shop as a, as a youth, uh, because it stole my father away from me. Um, and. When I turned 19, I was at college playing basketball. That's what I wanted to do, and, uh, shattered an ankle and, uh, uh, in a basketball game about three weeks before the season started.
Cecil Bullard: That kind of ended my basketball career. Uh, I only went to college to chase girls and play basketball, so since I couldn't. Play basketball and I wasn't very good at chasing girls anymore 'cause I didn't have, you know, two legs under me. Um, uh, I went to my dad and said, I, I'd like to come to work for you.
Cecil Bullard: And became a tech and then a service advisor. I. Uh, a few years in and then a few years after that I was the manager of the shop. 'cause I can't leave things alone. Right. You know, it's kind of that thing about me. And, and, uh, then I owned three shops. Uh, I left Utah about 28, 29 years ago. Came up to u uh, excuse me, left California, came up to Utah and, uh, ran some other people's shops, did some other things.
Cecil Bullard: And, um. Kind of, uh, ran a very successful shop in Northern California. Got recognized for that, uh, joined the SCCA there, and, uh, decided that I would be best. Um, my best use would be to be a coach for other people. Uh, we did 2.6 million with fourex and two service advisors, parts guy. Uh, that was 120%, uh, at the time with an 800 and whatever it was, average 8 62, I think was the average repair order.
Cecil Bullard: And, um, at the time our labor rate was $158 an hour. You're talking 2010. And, um, everyone else was under a hundred. And so we had a very successful, very consistent, very productive shop, very happy clients, obviously very profitable, and that's kind of what led me into coaching. Uh, I work for another, another company, and since I am a technician, I, you know, said, wow, they're making all this money and I could do it better.
Cecil Bullard: I'll just start my own. You too. You too. I'll make all the money and I'll, I'll, I'll, and then I can take Wednesdays off and, you know, all that. And, uh, the good news is lately I've been taking, uh, you know, uh, Fridays off and, and, uh, you know, only 25 years after starting a coaching company. Uh, right. So that's my background.
Cecil Bullard: And I think I have a real passion for. Because of my experience with my father, uh, who you know about passed away about 12 years ago, and on his deathbed, um, had been, think he'd been thinking a lot about his life and talking about how he missed out on his family's stuff. Uh, correct. Yeah. And I didn't want, my main drive is I, I don't want any other kids losing their fathers to their business.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so if I can teach someone to run a good business, make good money, that they can have an outside life besides the business, that's kind of my main drive. And, uh, 
Lucas Underwood: absolutely. And, and you know, for, for our listeners, if at any point you have a question, drop over into the comments and ask the question, um, we're, we're here to answer any questions you may have, but since you, you bring up a really good point is, is that fixing the business.
Lucas Underwood: Is a core component of being the good Father is a core component of being the good husband, is being part of your family, being present. You've heard a lot of my reels recently talking about this because I, I kinda lost sight of that. The business became who I was and, and you know, it's easy. It is, it is.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. It's so easy to lose sight of that and, and kind of get ourselves off into a corner somewhere and we think we're alone. And you know, one of the things I've watched with you is I've watched you work with a lot of clients over the past couple of years, and I watch you walk into their businesses or look at their financials and you say, oh, this is wrong and this is wrong, and this is wrong.
Lucas Underwood: It's simple. Just change this and change this and change this. But it's not that simple, right? It takes, well, it is encouragement. 
Cecil Bullard: It is, it's, that's the, that's the problem. You guys overcomplicate the shit out of it. Yeah, it's, it's not, it's very simple. In most cases, it just doesn't feel that way because you don't, you either don't know what you don't know or you don't have the experience.
Cecil Bullard: To feel good about that. So if you look at, at young children, you know, yeah. 12, 13 years old, they got their first boyfriend, their first girlfriend, and all of a sudden they broke up and their life is over. Yeah. I mean, for them it is completely and absolutely devastating. And then a guy like me, I'm like.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, your heart got broke. Okay. Big deal. You know that's gonna happen a lot of times before you find the right person because you have the experience and the knowledge, um, from that experience to make different decisions or to lead in a different way. Yeah, right. And so absolutely for me, I look at running a shop.
Cecil Bullard: I was having a conversation with someone, I can't even tell you who it was, but they had done something amazing. I, I can't remember what it was, uh, it's just a, a week ago. But I was, I was thinking, you know, it's, it's like a technician. They drive their car and they, and they work on people's cars and they don't realize how talented.
Cecil Bullard: They really are. Yeah. Right. To them. Absolutely. The curse of knowledge. Yeah. To them it's easy, right? Oh yeah. I pulled the engine apart and uh, you know, I replaced the pistons and you know, did blah, blah, blah. And I, you know, uh, today, if I was to pull like a timing chain off of a modern car today, I'd be like, huh.
Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, what do I do? Um, and I used to be able to do that in my sleep, right? Yeah. But it's that, it's that. It is easy. Most of what we're gonna ask you to do is easy. The only reason it's hard is because you don't have the knowledge of the experience. Right? Absolutely. And, and so when I tell you to terminate somebody and go, Hey, here's why you need to do this.
Cecil Bullard: Why, why do you 
Lucas Underwood: gotta throw me under the bus like that? Come on now. 
Cecil Bullard: Right? You know, and, and then four months later you're like, oh. I'm sitting here ling, you know that Right? Well that's kind of the point. They, they, that's what they're looking for here, so we gotta give 'em some of that. Right. That's, that's 
Lucas Underwood: good.
Lucas Underwood: So we have our first question. When the shop is having a slow month, what's the first lever you pull? Marketing operations or morale? 
Cecil Bullard: Uh, morale. Um, yours first. Yeah, I guarantee you the, the, the attitude of, oh, it's gonna be another crappy day. I have a client right now, uh, I talk to my clients, uh, about every two weeks.
Cecil Bullard: You know, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, depends and, uh. So, you know, how, how you doing? Uh, same shit, same day, right? You know, and you're like, dude, you have to change your attitude, right? Because your attitude affects everyone in your business. And absolutely. The other part about, think about this.
Cecil Bullard: So Lucas, how long you been in business? Uh, 17 years. Almost 18 now. Okay. 17 years. And you're still there? Yep. Absolutely. And how many crappy, crappy days have you had? 
Lucas Underwood: Right, A ton. There's been a couple that I thought it was over, right? I knew it was over a couple times. At least I wished it was. 
Cecil Bullard: So, attitude is in a way, is first because if you can't get your own attitude straight.
Cecil Bullard: Then nobody around you is gonna have their attitude straight. And so your marketing then is gonna like phone rings and instead of, Hey, good morning, thank you for calling Larry's Autoworks. This is Cecil, how can I help you today? It's like, yeah, what do you want? Right? Yeah. And, and it, I mean, you could even go, good morning.
Cecil Bullard: Thank you for calling Larry's Autoworks Cecil, you know, uh, but it's not the same. Right? Yeah. So, so it's a, uh, cascading effect. Attitude is first right now. And, and obviously I think second would be to address, um, if, if all of a sudden I don't have cars, is it I don't have phone calls and I'm not converting phone calls or I don't have cars.
Cecil Bullard: Okay, yes. Which is it? And then yeah, being different, I always say. You know, 'cause it's funny you've heard me say I don't know a thousand times 'cause you've been in a lot of classes and you know, I've had a lot of one-on-ones. Raise your labor rate. Raise your labor rate. So you do that. A shop owner raises labor rate 10 bucks an hour and you know, all of a sudden he has a bad week.
Cecil Bullard: It's because of the labor rate. Oh my God. See, so we raised the labor rate and it's, oh, my business went to crap and look what it did. And oh my God. And the fact is, no, it was gonna be a crappy week. Anyway, we've, we've been through them. If you're in this business, you're going to have no matter what you do.
Cecil Bullard: Now, there are a lot of things you can do to create consistency in your business, but if you're, if you're not consistent, if you're slowed down, if I have a slow period, it's, it's really nice to go. Well, school's starting, so that's my excuse. But you, you know what? School starts in August every year. Yep. So if you're smart and you're, aren't 
Lucas Underwood: we preparing for it?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah. In June, why are we not talking about what kind of thing we're gonna do? What what community event. I've got a couple of shops that are doing backpack programs for the schools, providing backpacks for kids with, with, you know, paper and pens. Crayons and, you know, whatever, um, for, for the schools and that's going to drive more car count.
Cecil Bullard: And hopefully keep your 
Lucas Underwood: attitude up 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. In that 
Lucas Underwood: one slow time. You know, the two things that I see is, is I talk about a guy named Tim Kit all the time. He was a big leadership guy, um, and worked with a number of universities, and one of the things he said is, if it's not happening in you, if you don't believe it in here.
Lucas Underwood: It's not gonna happen through you. Your people will not, uh, rise to the level that you envision if it's not happening in you because they see it. Yeah. And the second thing is, is, you know, when we talk about that marketing aspect, when we talk about bringing people into the shop, it doesn't work immediately.
Lucas Underwood: And so we panic and then we start making adjustments. We start making changes. We break it, right? Like that's not time to be making, you know, those adjustments sometimes you're 
Cecil Bullard: making, sometimes because you are doing it at out of fear. Yep. You're doing the wrong thing. You can't see the force for the trees.
Cecil Bullard: There's some really great research on, uh, decision making when you are wealthy and when you're broke. Yep. And all the research points out that when you're broke. The decisions are very poor decisions. 
Lucas Underwood: You know, I've noticed this and, and you and I have talked about this. We were sitting around having dinner a couple weeks ago and we talked about, um, one of the things that I continue to see in shop owners, and it's like there is a pan full of hot oil on a hot eye and it catches on fire and the shop owner, they go over and they put the cover on the pan and they get the fire to go out, and then they pull the cover off and it starts back and they say, oh my God, what am I gonna do?
Lucas Underwood: I just have to keep putting this fire out. But they never changed the root of which calls are, take the oil off the pan 
Cecil Bullard: or turn the heat down. 
Lucas Underwood: Right. You know? Exactly. They just keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. So, uh, we've got another really good question. Um, and it was asking about setting up pay plans for technicians, and I know we gotta kind of keep that short because we wanna be able to, to answer as many questions as we can.
Lucas Underwood: I've been talking a lot about hybrid pay plans in my shop and why I believe that's better. And uh, it says what's the best way to structure a hybrid? Incentive slash pay plan for technicians say hourly plus bonus. What do you think the best way is? 
Cecil Bullard: So I just spent almost two hours doing pay plans for shop, um, theory quickly.
Cecil Bullard: Uh, I need 60% of my pay to be based on showing up, and I need 40% to be based on specific things that I need to accomplish in my position. So if I think about a tech, what do I want from a tech? I want productivity. Uh, most of the shops don't have the productivity they need. It's costing 'em tens of thousands of dollars a month.
Cecil Bullard: And, uh, it's, it's, it's detrimental to your profitability. Uh, I need quality of work, so I need educated people that are, uh, able to think, uh, uh, moving forward, et cetera. And, uh, I want. Quality of work, which means I'm also gonna track comebacks and there'll be some kind of a comeback bonus in the bonus structure.
Cecil Bullard: Bonuses have to be enough to change behavior. You can't give me a dollar an hour and think you're gonna change my behavior. Yeah. So our pay plans, we might start a guy at 28, 30, 32 and give him a 16 to $20 bonus level based on what he does or, or not, and how he produces or she. In that position. Okay. And, and so bonuses have to be enough to motivate behavior and change behavior.
Cecil Bullard: Um, you can never reward someone or punish someone for something they have no control over. Exactly. So for instance, I don't pay text for sales. It's not their job. And I don't pay service advisors for, you know, basic, um, I give them small bonuses for productivity. Because they manage that, but I don't give them huge bonuses for productivity.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause that's not their job. Yeah. Their job make not in their direct control, have what they need to be successful. Right. Yeah. And, and so there are these kind of rules that you base and then you want to have a performance, we call 'em performance enhanced. It's swallows a little better. Uh, and it's so funny because I was just going through one of those plans and we have a, uh, a tech and we're, the other thing is you need to understand financially that.
Cecil Bullard: I wanna pay my tax somewhere around 40% of my labor rate effective with load. So, mm-hmm. Um, if I do that and I have a low production guy that's doing 30 hours and I build this pay plan, then my margins are gonna suck because they're not producing. If I build in a performance enhanced pay plan, so now I'm paying this guy $30 an hour, whether he produces or not, if I give him 30 plus another 15 for producing and and doing what I need, this guy's gonna make 20, 30, 40% more.
Cecil Bullard: But he's also gonna do, you know, 40% more work, which is gonna change my margins and move my margins up, and I'm gonna make more money. And I'm showing this pay plan to this owner and he's like, oh my God, this is genius. No, it's pretty simple. Really. It just follows about seven basic rules and you build, uh, per that way as the business succeeds, I can pay people more money.
Cecil Bullard: Exactly. And they should make more money if they do what I need them to do. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and I think one of the keys that I see often is we, we put too much energy into the pay plan and we make it so complex nobody can understand it. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They have to be able to, another rule, they have to be able to be simp, keep it simple.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Absolutely. And absolutely. And you have to have a way to measure a, that you both believe is accurate. And you know, I've been in shops where the owner has this convoluted pay plan and the nobody knows what they're getting paid until their check shows up. Which creates, um, anxiety and that anxiety, whether you like it or not, that that's that whole thing.
Cecil Bullard: When you said, Hey, I'm having a, a weak week or a week month or something, you know, it's not that great. What do I work on first? Attitude marketing. You know what? Holy crap attitude, because that attitude comes through. So if you have people that are. That are nervous about their pay 'cause they don't understand kind of how they're gonna get paid or how they're being paid.
Cecil Bullard: Right. They will never give you the kind of productivity that you want because their mind, you know, go to Maslow. If I'm thinking like, how am I gonna feed the family tonight? I can't be thinking about how do I do this timing belt faster. Right. Exactly. Or better. Or how do I do it right or Yeah, yeah. Right.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. I'm just, oh my God, I gotta finish this thing, get it out. 'cause I need that money 'cause I'm gonna, you make bad decisions. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and the core of that is take care of your people. Right? Like take care of your people. 
Cecil Bullard: Well, I think, yeah, the, the whole like our, our better business, better life, better industry, better business, the better you run your business than the better life.
Cecil Bullard: Not just you, the owner, but your people have and their families. 'cause I'm responsible. I mean, we, I, I think we have 27 or 28 people that work for the institute now. They all have families. I'm not responsible for just Cecil, and I'm certainly not responsible for me and my four kids and my wife. I'm responsible for 28 people and their families.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. You're exactly right. And so the better my business runs and, and it, it is simple. If I understand margins, if I understand finance, uh, for the company and. The better it runs and the better I can take care of my people, the better lives they're gonna have and the more opportunity their families are gonna have.
Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right, Cecil and I, it's something that I have seen so much of. Um, I, I do see a question in here, and I, I wanna cover this. We've not popped it up on the screen, but it's asking, what's the best metric to follow when you're pricing yourself to the customer, overall, GP or GP Per hour Now I was always taught overall GP and, and like, I, I see both things, but now Cecil, um, as I've worked more and more with you and, and I truly understand my business' financials.
Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm. I've started paying more attention to what is my true cost per hour to operate my business. And then I start breaking that down. And, and GP per hour is pretty beneficial in that sense, don't you think? 
Cecil Bullard: I, I've always been a gross profit period guy and never really looked at gross profit per hour until the last four or five years.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Uh, and I wasn't taught by a gross profit per hour guy. And what I do understand, and I've done the math multiple times, so there was a competing coaching company. They put an article out in Ratchet Ranch and it was like, oh, it's all about gross profit per hour, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, you don't get it.
Cecil Bullard: And by the way, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Both is is really good. And we're kind of a one or the other, I don't know, industry, uh, well. Tastes great. Less filling, tastes great, less filling, let's fight about it. No, it tastes great and it's less filling. Great. That's wonderful. Um, so the, the, the fact is you can do jobs that have better gross profit per hour.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But they also probably have higher liability. Okay. So you gotta think about liability as a, as a part of that cost. The other thing is if you don't have gross margin, then you don't have gross profit per hour. So when I'm looking at, um, stuff, people say, what's one of your really K high KPIs? I'm looking at average repair order.
Cecil Bullard: Why do I look at average repair order? Well, if I have a high average repair order, that means that probably I'm bringing the right customers in. So it answers a marketing question. Uh, it means that probably I'm doing enough new clients to find work that because my old clients, we've already taken care of a lot of their work and there's not as much to do.
Cecil Bullard: So it answers a second marketing question. Um, one of the most important things I have in my shop around productivity is how are my inspections going? How, what are we finding and what are we selling? So if I have a higher average repair order, it means that I'm finding work and that I'm also selling work.
Cecil Bullard: So it answers, you know, three more questions that are very important questions. So if I look at my average repair order and I say, well, today I've got a $950 average repair order, I'm running a general repair shop. I go, wow, I've got great customers. My marketing seems to be working. I'm bringing the right clients in.
Cecil Bullard: Um. We must be inspecting cars pretty well, and we're building relationships with our clients because they're buying product from us. Okay? Right. And so, and then if I look and I say, well, my average repair is four 20. Ah, ah, now I have to bring in twice the cars at four 20 as I do at. And well, even more than twice than, than I do at nine 50.
Cecil Bullard: And it also means who am I bringing in? Are they buying? What percentage are they buying? All of a sudden those other five questions start coming up and I gotta go look and see how's my marketing working? What type of a customer's coming in? Am I bringing enough new people in? So there are numbers that you can use that are like, I don't know, they're the, the smoke before the fire.
Cecil Bullard: Right, right. Absolutely. And then there's the fire, like, holy smokes, if I don't have a good average repair order, I better understand why, and I better be able to go backwards to that step and fix that step so that my average repair order comes up. Otherwise, I won't have productivity. I won't have gross profit per hour because we're only doing half the work we should be doing.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, absolutely. And then I won't have profit at the end of the day. 
Lucas Underwood: I take it back to what we talked about a little bit ago is watching you analyze these shops, right? Yeah. 'cause we've been doing these really cool videos behind the scenes where we're talking about, Hey, uh, Cecil, this question came in, answer this question, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so as we've been doing that, I watch you analyze the numbers from the shops and there's not one number that gives you the answer. Now, for me personally, now, when we're talking about GP per hour. I'll tell you where GP per hour comes in for me personally, is if I know what it costs to operate my shop and I know how much profit I want, I know that if I look at that ticket and it's below that number, then I'm not making money.
Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And so for me it's, it's a go no go type of scenario. I have to be over this. But it's not the one metric that you can use to, to manage the shop. You have to use all of your metrics. 
Cecil Bullard: Let's say that I have a really good marketing process and I'm bringing in top level customers. Yeah. Okay. People that want their car taken care of.
Cecil Bullard: Right. All. And I have a good, uh, inspection process and I have a good estimating process. In other words, I have a parts matrix that my people follow 99% of the time. Right. And uh, I have a labor matrix that my people follow 99% of the time, et cetera. And so now I'm looking at that and do I really need to check margin once a day or once a week?
Cecil Bullard: No, because margins built in. Now at the end of the month, if I look at things and I go, Hey, I was supposed to have a 58% parts margin, but I only had a 52. Where did, where did my process break down? Right? Right. And so what I'm saying is, if your processes are good and you have, uh, good management and people are following those processes, then you're gonna have your margin, you're gonna have your profit, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yep. And, and you gotta understand the whole thing. So I'm talking to a guy yesterday on the phone, and we've got four technicians and they're doing 1.2 million, and their labor rate's $150 an hour. Yeah, well you're, you start doing the calculations and they're running at about 60% productivity, which is killing them.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And the guy's talking about hiring a Fifth Tech so they can get the workout. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: exactly. That's not your problem, right? Yeah. It's your processes and the fact that your people are not productive. If you don't solve that, you won't be profitable. So. 
Lucas Underwood: I heard a great, I, I gotta, I gotta say this because it's just the perfect time to say it.
Lucas Underwood: I heard, I heard somebody talking the other day and he was talking about corporate entities and he said, did you know that the majority of these giant corporate entities, the first thing that they do, doesn't necessarily mean they come in and raise the prices? They look for efficiency first, right? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: And, and see we don't do that. And, and if you knew the number of shops that I talked to and they say, I am booked out for six weeks, and then you look at their financials and they didn't make any money, right? Right. There, there was no money there. And it's like, well, you, you're booked out for six weeks 'cause you're not moving any work.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Like the numbers going align with what you're saying. 
Cecil Bullard: But we've had this mentality in the industry that Clark County equals profit. That's, yeah. Activity crap equals profit and it's not true. Yeah, no, you could, I mean, if you look at the industry stats and I, I, I don't know what the recent, the most recent one is, but the average shop, I don't know, last year or year before, 4.2% net.
Cecil Bullard: All right. So that's crazy. And the average chop was somewhere around 800,000. So this guy's making, he's making a salary, right? Yeah. Uh, so he's got a job and he is getting paid. Right. Yeah. And his company provides him a truck and gas and a few toys, and every once in a while he can reach in and grab a hundred dollars if he wants to take his wife out to dinner or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Yeah. But profit wise for the company, they're not making what they should be making even close. Yeah. And, and so 32,000 on 800,000 in sales is what the average shop is making. Now my shops are making 20 to 25% net. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: so I do 800,000 and I'm taking, you know, 200,000 home. Uh, plus a salary and now that's worth doing, right?
Cecil Bullard: That's worth spending some of your life at. 
Lucas Underwood: Just today, my buddy John called me and he said, I need to talk to you. And I said, what John? He said, um, I got this job in the shop. He's a new shop owner and he's a single man operation. And he said, I know you've been fussing at me at these margins. And he said, I just want you to know.
Lucas Underwood: He said, I've got this alternator that 30% gross profit. And he said, it's got me real nervous. He said, I'm thinking about knocking it down. And I said, I tell you what I said, leave it at 30% because that's where the margin should have been for the price. All it was OE that he was dead on the money. Yeah. I said, tell you what, let's do this.
Lucas Underwood: I said, instead of giving him a discount, I said, take a hundred dollars bill outta your wallet. Give it to the man and say, Hey, this is for being a great client. He said, I ain't got a hundred dollars in my wallet. I said, okay, well go get a hundred dollars. He said, Luke, there's 
Cecil Bullard: on paper, because you'll never have a hundred dollars.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Already gave it away. 
Lucas Underwood: Um, next question here. Uh, it says, Hey guys, I love your stuff. It's helped me be a much better manager for my company. Can I ask how do we keep our parts margin with an extended warranty company? Or do we just not do that work? Okay. I'm sorry, Cecil. I gotta hijack here. I just don't work for extended warranty companies.
Lucas Underwood: I just don't like 'em. They take up a ton of time. They take up a ton of energy. I just say, I'm sorry, I, I've got plenty of other work. 
Cecil Bullard: What do you think I have? I have. I think I give the client a choice. And the choice is this. Okay, your extended warranty company is not gonna pay what we're gonna charge.
Cecil Bullard: Okay? Yeah, because they're trying to save every nickel they can. That's their job. They're not trying to do a great job on your car, give you a good warranty, a good quality component. They want it cheap because they wanna save money. So here's the option. The option is a. We don't do the job, you take it somewhere that will put a inferior part or accept whatever the warranty company gives them.
Cecil Bullard: Or option B is, the extended warranty is going to give you X towards your job, but you have a copay, you're gonna have a copay, and the option B is that you pay us, you know what's fair. So we can give you a great job and a, and a great part and stand behind it. I think you're, and most of my clients under that circumstance.
Cecil Bullard: Chose option B. Yep. Uh, to have us do the job. 
Lucas Underwood: Same here, and, and here was my thing with them, the real reason I quit using extended warranty companies is the time component. Yeah. 'cause we, we have so many cars and you're talking about an hour to two hours of, of time spent in there. So I 
Cecil Bullard: have a, I have a, I have a varying labor rate, so it's against the law technically for me to say I have a warranty rate that's a warranty rate and it's much higher.
Cecil Bullard: It's $50 an hour higher than any of my other rates. Right. That's against the law. I'm not supposed to do that. Okay. But I do have varying labor rates in my shop. So when I'm doing, I don't know, oil changes or cooling flushes, maybe I'm charging $120 an hour. When I'm doing heavy duty diagnostics, I might be charging $240 an hour.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Correct. And, and all in between. Yeah. And that's how shops, that's, that's where we're moving if we're not all there yet. Yes, absolutely. And so now I tell my, my warranty company that here's the rate. So you are at my, my $240 an hour rate and I make up that time by having that rate that they are a part of that includes those types of jobs where there's a lot of research, a lot of time on the phones.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Uh, you know, a lot of trying to find the parts. And so, and I can completely, that's how I do it. 
Lucas Underwood: I completely agree. Very similar way to how I do things as well. And, and look, I think one of the issues, we talk about the pan full of oil on the eye. One of the things that I keep seeing happen is we do this over and over again.
Lucas Underwood: We, we get into these situations and we say, okay, well I'll cut the quality of my product. Well, I'll cut my price. I'll do all these things to make sure I get the job and to make the client happy and to do all this. But the problem is, is you just poured oil. Into the pan and put it on the fire. If you change your process, you break your process when you change it mid job.
Lucas Underwood: And so if you change it and you're doing these things that are different, you're still responsible for the quality of the repair. Just because the warranty company says, I don't wanna pay, that doesn't mean they're not coming back to you if something goes wrong. So, so keep that in mind. 
Cecil Bullard: We have a, we have a group here right now, and I went to dinner with a bunch of the guys, and one of the guys was sitting next to me who has a shop in North Carolina.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. And they do safety inspections in North Carolina at $13 and change. Yep. 13 Dictated by the state. Yep. Right. And that safety inspection to do it properly 20, 25 minutes. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: And they're gonna, I'm gonna get paid 13 something and I have to pay the state for the sticker and. If I do something wrong and the state catches me, it's a $10,000 fine.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Starts at 
Lucas Underwood: $10,000. 
Cecil Bullard: Okay, so, so my answer to that is North Carolina. Go screw yourself. I'm not doing safeties, and nobody else in the state should be doing safeties. And if every shop in the state said, we're not doing safeties at 13.95 because we can't make any money, in fact, I'm taking 25, 30, $40 outta my pocket and accepting all this liability.
Cecil Bullard: What if the state of North Carolina couldn't get a safety done because the industry said no. Exactly right. Exactly. And and the only guys that would do safeties are the guys that are working outta their houses that have no credibility whatsoever. Yep. If we did the same with warranty companies, I'm sorry, then the state would have to change the situation.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. All right. And, and so I'm, I'm Foreign association that has 40 to 80,000 members. 'cause there's 240,000 of us in this industry that starts to say, stop pushing us around. Mr. Government or Mr. State or whatever, because it ain't worth it. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And then you're, I, I, I, I, there was a. A technician there also and he was like, yeah, it's $10,000.
Cecil Bullard: I said, how many $13 inspections you have to do to make up for one $10,000 fine. Right. Yeah, 
Lucas Underwood: absolutely. 
Cecil Bullard: You, you can't win. It's a no win situation. Exactly. You know what I like with no win situations. It's real. My choice is real simple. I don't play. 
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And, and listen, you've said that a lot. I I've been talking about that a lot.
Lucas Underwood: At Cecil's Rules, everybody has to win, right? And if everybody can't win, we're not playing the game. Right. Uh, we'll go 
Cecil Bullard: play another 
Lucas Underwood: game. I'll get the oil off the fire and turn fire up. And now they popped up a question. I wanna go back to the other one that was asked, because I think that was a really important question.
Lucas Underwood: If we can find that other question, we'll get this one too. But it's, and, and I, I so connect with this since we just launched my shop and we're pushing hard socials, opening specials, replying in groups, going to events, even hosting our own, we offer everything from basic repair to full custom builds, but we're still low on cars.
Lucas Underwood: Some people assume we only do performance work. How can I better position the shop to bring both general repair and performance customers and just overall cars in general. Now market, market, 
Cecil Bullard: two different shops. Market differently. 
Lucas Underwood: I, I'm not gonna disagree, but I I, we've done a lot of videos talking about performance work.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, and by the way, that's a different business than it's general repair. It absolutely, it's completely different business 
Lucas Underwood: and it can be a profitable business, but you need to understand it is a different business and it needs to be ran differently. And it is in a lot of ways, a labor of love. As opposed to auto repair.
Lucas Underwood: I, I was in No, it's not. 
Cecil Bullard: No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. Well it 
Lucas Underwood: was when they went into it, it 
Cecil Bullard: has to be about money. Baby changed. So otherwise that fire's going on that pot and I kept to keep putting the lid on it. So you're 
Lucas Underwood: exactly right. So that's where I started. And, and, and it was really that. A lot of those consumers knew what they wanted and they'd already looked up the prices and it was very difficult for me to, to be profitable doing that kind of work.
Lucas Underwood: I will tell you that the name of the shop really does matter to the people that will come into the shop and, and when you're first starting out, sometimes it takes time because you have to gain that reputation. You have to get the Google reviews, you have to get the Yelp. Reviews. You have to start getting your name out.
Lucas Underwood: And I really think that building relationship is the number one way to do that. Cecil, what do you say to 'em? 
Cecil Bullard: I was running, uh, I, I got hired to run two shops in Rancher, Bernardo, California. Okay. Uh, side by side. Uh, they shared eight bays in the middle. Uh, excuse me. They shared an office in the middle.
Cecil Bullard: There were four bays on each side. And, uh, it was being advertised as rancher, Bernardo, German, and Japanese auto care. And there was one door into the office and, uh, they were struggling for car count, struggling for a lot of things. So what did we do? We broke them apart. We put another two doors into the same office.
Cecil Bullard: So we advertised Rancho Bernardo, Japanese, and we advertised Rancho Bernardo German, and we went up, I don't know, I think initially 97 or 98%, and we got rid of one door to come in. Okay. Got it. And, and so the cool thing about the internet is that I only see kind of what you want me to see or what you allow me to see, so I can run, say, Cecil's, you know, high performance rebuilds or you know, uh, restorations shop.
Cecil Bullard: I can also run Cecil's, um, uh, maintenance and, and whatever shop and be seen as two different businesses because I'm really running two different businesses. And I would also tell you, you know, um. The marketing that I would do for high performance and the marketing I would do for general service and repair is two different types of marketing.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. All right. And, and so separate the, the marketing, separate the businesses out in the way that you charge. I mean, holy smokes, if I charge in a restoration shop, like I charge in a service shop, I'll go broke. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: absolutely. It, it, it doesn't work. In fact, I was having a conversation with one of my clients with Restoration Shop and we're about 10% low on productivity.
Cecil Bullard: We're at about 92%. We really want to be over a hundred percent. Okay. And we're building time and materials. A lot of the work is time and materials, and I'm like. We're 10% short. Here's what I want you to do. I want a 20%. Once the time and materials are done, I want a 21 per, I want a 20% charge on top of that time and materials so that the company makes the profit the company needs to make.
Cecil Bullard: So now that job, instead of being a $4,000 job, is now uh, $4,400. But so what The customer that's, that's doing restoration. Is is is not nickel and dimming you unless you're allowing them to nickel and dime you because they don't have that many options to do the work that you need done. Yeah, for sure.
Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. Right. Now the next question, I feel like I'm being trolled here. Okay. This person says we've all made bad hires. What's your personal, I knew it was a mistake moment. I can't share mine. Okay. And how long did you take that? At this point, I'll give you one. 
Cecil Bullard: I'll give you one. I had an employee for seven years that from the start was not able to do their job and we kept changing the job, hoping we'd find a place 'cause it's just a nice person.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: And we finally turned after seven years of, you know, 70, 80,000 a year. Think about that. Half a million dollars. Yeah. We finally terminated that person. Got a company to come in, uh, as a, um, you know, um, we hired a company to come in and do that job. Yeah. Cost us 30% of what we were paying the other guy and we're getting results, 
Lucas Underwood: you know, look, I'll tell you my first one, um, I, this one I can share.
Lucas Underwood: Um, long story short, this guy comes to work for me. And I just knew he was gonna be the solution, right? And this was before I had ever hired the first business coach. And I knew that this was gonna solve all my business' problems, getting a good technician in there, be able to do this. And I had listened to what he said.
Lucas Underwood: And, and you know, I don't know if you know this, but not everybody tells the truth. When they're applying for a job or when they're interview, oh, come on. I'm just telling you. Like, they tell you you 
Cecil Bullard: their truth. 
Lucas Underwood: Exactly what they believe. Yeah. And, uh, so let's see, within the first week, this guy, the client's pulling in the parking lot, right?
Lucas Underwood: And, and it, they own a durmax. Chevrolet, 2,500, they passed their truck, and as, as the client's pulling in, he's doing a burnout, going past them, going the other direction. And I knew right then, like, this is not gonna work. I didn't fire him until he changed his ringtone. And this was six months later because the dude was so, I mean, he was abrasive and he was rough.
Lucas Underwood: I thought he was just gonna try and shoot me up if I, if I. Tried to fire him, right? Yeah. Just unbelievable human being. But I finally fired him when he changed the ringtone to, here comes the asshole for me. And so I said, you know, here we go. This is it. We'll just go ahead and call it over. And you know, he was so upset that I fired him.
Lucas Underwood: He could not understand why I let him go. I mean, after all, we were such good friends and it's just unbelievable. I would terminate him. 
Cecil Bullard: I think. Uh, we've all made mistakes. We, we, mm-hmm. The guys I know in this industry, 95% of them are just the salt of the earth and just the greatest people. Yeah. Um, there's a few I don't like imagine that.
Cecil Bullard: Um, but mostly I like 'em and I think they're great. And we think, man, this guy is such a nice guy, or this guy's so good at this, I, I can change 'em. I can fix him. You know? Yeah. And eventually what it comes down to is. They're not fixable. Right? Yeah. And, and so hopefully. Hopefully you change your interview process.
Cecil Bullard: So you, you know, you ask the question, Hey, how many assholes have you worked with? Oh my God, let me tell you about all the assholes I worked with. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't wanna be the next one in the line. 
Lucas Underwood: The, the key is this is if they are toxic. In other words, if it, you know, you know this. There's a difference 
Cecil Bullard: between I'm not quite doing what I need to or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: And being toxic and poisonous. Yeah, 
Lucas Underwood: exactly. They don't align with the culture of the business. Yeah. And, and at the end of the day, listen, I, I, I'm gonna come back to Tim Kit, he always said, you promote what you permit and if this person isn't in alignment with who you are, is in alignment with what you do and you allow them to stay.
Lucas Underwood: It breeds toxicity. They're not happy, and all they see is that you are the problem. The shop is the problem, the business is the problem. 
Cecil Bullard: Think about your life experience and think about all the people that you've known or worked for who told a great story. Yeah, but never did a great job. Okay. Yeah, exactly.
Cecil Bullard: And all it does is create frustration and at some point you're just like, oh my God, stop talking because everything that comes outta your mouth is crap. Yeah. And, and so what I would tell, like the, the key to management, um, is do what you say and say what you do. Amen. And in, in fact, say less and do more.
Cecil Bullard: Exactly. Right. And, and, uh. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, that's, and, and, and here's the thing. True leadership is trust earned by repeated behaviors, right? Let's be real about that. One of the problems that I see is a lot of times, and, and I did not recognize this about myself, but for a while I was the toxic one, right? And I was the owner of the business and I was the problem.
Lucas Underwood: And until we recognize that 
Cecil Bullard: attitude, attitude, first brother, attitude first, I have to be. Like I, I tell this story in classes. It's if the IRS was gonna come lock my doors, do you know when my employees would know as the locks were being put on the doors? Other than that, everything's great. Everything's fantastic, and we're gonna do fantastic.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. You can't have people thinking, I need people thinking we're gonna succeed. We're gonna win this game. Yeah. Right. And if you think that way, y your odds of winning dramatically increase. And if you're toxic, your odds of poisoning everyone around you dramatically increase. Right. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and unfortunately, the people you're gonna poison first are the people you love the 
Cecil Bullard: most, 
Lucas Underwood: right?
Cecil Bullard: Well, the best, the, I have chased away some really, really great people. Mm-hmm. Because I was toxic. And it's a shame when you finally realize, oh my God, I'm, I've got to fire this guy who's a great tech, but now is just the most ornery, miserable SOB. And I'm the fault I let it happen. I allowed it to happen.
Cecil Bullard: I didn't manage this sooner, blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, it's my fault. Fire him anyway. You can't have toxicity around you. 
Lucas Underwood: Amen. I'm a small, new mobile business breaking even and want to know the next step. Do I buy new equipment and offer more services to existing clients or market to new clients? 
Cecil Bullard: So breaking even's a problem for me because breaking even is losing money.
Cecil Bullard: There's no breaking even. Alright, and so. I'm not gonna buy new equipment right now unless I can verify or justify that equipment to create a certain amount of money that would then put 20% net in my pocket. So for instance, Hey Cecil, uh, I wanna buy an alignment rack for my shop. And you look and they're doing.
Cecil Bullard: They, they got a hundred cars a month and they're doing three alignments and they're subbing them out. Right. And now they're gonna do alignments and they buy this alignment rack. 'cause if we do five or six or seven a week, we're gonna make money. The problem is they never do five or six or seven a week because they don't change their process of finding and selling alignments.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. Now you're into a piece of equipment, $80,000. Yeah. And you have a, I don't know, $2,500 a month, uh, lease payment or $3,000 a month. How many alignments do you have to do for sure to make that profitable for yourself and at what price? 
Lucas Underwood: You, you're so right, Cecil. And, and here's the thing, as I've seen so many guys do this.
Lucas Underwood: I'm guilty of doing it. I've seen a lot of others do this and, and it kind of comes back to some of this diagnostic slash testing training that we're, we're really pushing in the industry because we keep saying, Hey, we need to learn all this new testing. We need this new, great equipment. And I'm not disagreeing with that.
Lucas Underwood: I think we do, but if we're not charging for that, if we're not making money doing it, the real money's made in brake jobs. The real money's made in light services. It's not made in the big jobs. It's not made in the complex testing. It, it and it. Well, it can be. 
Cecil Bullard: It can be. It should be. That's, it should be, that's another, that's another podcast.
Cecil Bullard: It is. Which is, or another webinar, which, which basically is when you are doing whatever you're doing, how do you make that profitable? Exactly. A hundred percent. And that's why you have varying labor rates. And that's why when you're doing diag. If your labor rate is twice as much as your other labor rate, but, but you sure 
Lucas Underwood: don't go out and buy a $10,000 piece of equipment and not charge for it, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like, doesn't work well, no. 
Cecil Bullard: No, no. No, no, no. If you're in the automotive industry in the past, we certainly have gone out and bought lots of 10 and 25,000. I mean, I had one of the first $25,000 scopes that Sun made way back in the day, and we put that thing in the corner. I You just dated yourself, 
Lucas Underwood: brother.
Lucas Underwood: I mean, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah, brother. I know I did sh. You mean the white hair and the, and the white be enough? I mean, didn't date me right? 
Lucas Underwood: That was what, like 1932, something like that. 
Cecil Bullard: Oh, shut up. When I see you buddy. Going down, uh, 1980 something. Uh, I think first scope I bought 25 grand. Now we didn't answer the question.
Cecil Bullard: So right. First, let's make sure that what car count do I need? Yeah. And how many more do I need and or. Will the customers that I have pay a little bit more so that I have the profit that I need to buy that equipment or the profit that I need to market to gain better customers or more customers, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so I, I don't want the person that comes here and asked the question, so, man, they went on a tangent. They don't really answer my question. I, I don't have enough information right here to tell you which one. I would tell you probably both. If I can justify the piece of equipment to create a, I've got a guy right now that they don't work on Audi, but they do a lot of BM, bmw, Mercedes work and they want to increase their business.
Cecil Bullard: Well, you might want to think about bringing an Audi tech in and and marketing to Audi because it might increase your business by 25 or 30%. Yep. And. Also marketing vehicle specific. So the way that marketing is changing, it's now about sentiment, and I don't know what the percentage is, but a high percentage of searches probably somewhere around 30 to 40% are now being done through uh, ai.
Cecil Bullard: And AI doesn't look at your business like Google looked at your business. Yeah, for sure. AI is, is looking at the sentiment of what your question is and trying to find the right answers. Yeah. And, and so now if I'm gonna market, I wanna market. Sentiment. We had a whole big meeting the other day here and we're talking about one of our people here who is uh uh, Ms.
Cecil Bullard: Michael Smith, who's the expert on m and a. And I'm like, we have not done a good enough job. 'cause there's people coming into our industry saying, well, I'm an expert on leadership. No education, no. No real experience, but they have a podcast. And now the expert on leadership. I'm trying to cut anybody down.
Cecil Bullard: That's not what I'm doing. Okay. But I have a guy that's got 40 plus years, uh, in m and a, creating m and a. Our company has not done a good enough job. Um, uh, marketing that person and their skillset. And, and, and then we started talking about AI because we did an AI search. Like, if I wanna sell my business, uh, who could, my automotive business, who can help me?
Cecil Bullard: And the first guy that popped up on AI was Michael Smith, and the second guy that popped up was Cecil Bullard. All right. And, and that's cool, but I wanna own. All of those questions on that AI's gonna get asked, and so we've made some shifts in our marketing because of the shifts that are happening in.
Lucas Underwood: Marketing. Well, you know, and, and we started hearing about some of this a few years back. We, we were at the Mars conference a few years back. Yeah. And that's where we started hearing about some of this way before it even got here. Um, and so I, I think that if you've not been to some type of marketing training now, look, I'm a car guy.
Lucas Underwood: I'm not gonna lie to you. I get bored with the marketing thing. It's just not what I enjoy. But when you go to a class like Mars, you know the, the conference Mars that the institute does, and you actually sit through some of that marketing training, holy cow, it is next level you, you begin to understand it in a different way.
Lucas Underwood: It's not the marketing that you thought it was. You know, we used to go knock on doors and go talk to people and carry the cards around. And I'm not saying that doesn't work. I'm just saying that the environment we're in is changing so fast. You need a hyper boost, if you will. You need a crash course really quickly to understand how to market your business.
Lucas Underwood: So I think Mars is a great option for somebody like this who's just starting out so they, they don't have to fake it till they make it in the marketing department. 
Cecil Bullard: You can game the system. Um, and there will be people that game the system, period. And we gamed Google Ads, frankly, and we gained ad words and we gamed a lot of things because we were looking ahead and we knew, or we suspected that, that it was moving in that direction.
Cecil Bullard: I, let me ask you a question, Lucas. You've known me and you've known the institute for a while. Yeah. A long time. When have we ever done anything? Only at the normal level. Never, never, never. And so this is not what people are thinking. It's not sit down and have a bunch of marketing companies try to sell me their marketing.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, this is, here's the future. Here's what we believe it looks like. And by the way, we've been pretty good at this for a long time, and here's how you can take advantage of that. And here's what you can do. Go home with, that's gonna help you to bring more quality people in your business more consistently.
Cecil Bullard: For sure. Now when's 
Lucas Underwood: it, when is the event 
Cecil Bullard: that, 
Lucas Underwood: is it coming up? I wanna say the September. We've got a producer, they're gonna put it at the bottom of the screen over here, right? Fifth or put up? Yeah. September 4th through sixth. There you go. There 
Cecil Bullard: you go. That's awesome. And, and there's still some seats.
Cecil Bullard: We'd love to, you know, fill it because we have the, and the other thing is, I know, I don't know, probably 95% of the marketing companies out there, and I know their strengths and weaknesses, and I try to attract the top 5%. And the top 5% are gonna be at the conference. Yep. We're not inviting everybody. That's not.
Cecil Bullard: It's not come and have us, oh, sell me your program. It's come and help me understand how, what I need to do to be successful in the future. Absolutely. And then if you, if you see somebody there that you like and you say, oh wow, they really knew what they were talking about. I'd like to do business with them.
Cecil Bullard: That's fantastic. But we don't do things at the institute. We, we do them differently than most other companies. Yeah. 
Lucas Underwood: Okay. Well, I know we're running out of time. Cecil, you got anything you wanna add? Anything you drop in at the end here? Anything you wanna share? 
Cecil Bullard: Well, we're gonna, we're gonna do this on a routine basis and we want to answer questions and be specific to those questions for sure.
Cecil Bullard: So if we didn't get to your question, you can, uh, uh, email that question in. Um, uh, um. You can hit Cecil at we are the institute.com. You can send 'em to me. Uh, we will put them on the list and we'll make sure that. When we have our next one, we get to your questions as quickly as we can and get the best answers that we can to your questions.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and we're gonna, you know, in some of these videos, if they, if they require a more detailed explanation, we're gonna sit down with Cecil and we're gonna make detailed explanations for some of these questions. And so those will be on the Changing The Industry podcast. You'll be able to see those.
Lucas Underwood: It's where we really dig in and begin to debrief and back away and get the, the, the core of the onion peeled back to where we can see exactly what's happening, understand the business, and, and may even look at some numbers and share some shop numbers and some stuff like that. So it should 
Cecil Bullard: never know.
Lucas Underwood: Baby. 
Cecil Bullard: That's 
Lucas Underwood: it. That's it. We're not sharing my numbers. Okay. We're not doing that, Cecil. Ah, we're not doing that. I can't do it. I'll, I'll try not, I'll try to hold back. That's it. You do pretty wells. Absolutely. Good. Well guys, thank you all so much for being here. I see a lot of names that I know and appreciate very much that you guys came and hung out with us and so I'm so excited to see all of you next time.
Lucas Underwood: Again, we're gonna be doing this more often, um, and it is a lot of fun for both of us. So thank you both so much. Uh, thank all of you so much, and uh, Cecil. Thank you for being here, man. Thank you for taking time outta your day. I know you're a busy dude, so it's phenomenal. No 
Cecil Bullard: worries. This is what I love to do the most to help job owners, so 
Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 
Lucas Underwood: Well, thank.

134 - Rehearse to Win: The Secret to Service Advisor Confidence

134 - Rehearse to Win: The Secret to Service Advisor Confidence
June 23, 2025 - 00:39:59
 
Show Summary:
Recorded at the Institute Summit 2025, this episode features brothers Jason and Patrick Brennan in a powerful conversation on leadership, innovation, and growth in the automotive industry. Jason emphasizes redefining training through real-world rehearsal practice for service advisors and technicians, and using “education” language to promote a culture of ongoing development. Patrick brings his marketing expertise to the table, stressing the importance of reputation management and direct response strategies for businesses. Together, they explore how strong leadership, peer networking, and a healthy company culture attract talent and fuel long-term success.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Patrick and Jason Brennan, Fine Tune Auto Service
 
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction (00:00:00)Transition from Plumbing to Automotive (00:02:05)Customer Service and Service Advisor Training (00:03:01)Training vs. Education in the Industry (00:05:15)Reputation Management (00:07:58)Daily Training and Rehearsal Practices (00:09:28)Improvements from Training and Peer Critique (00:12:17)Team Building and Individual Improvement (00:14:08)Teaching as Mastery and Knowledge Sharing (00:22:12)Defining Success and Perseverance (00:23:08)Peer Review and Networking Groups (00:25:16)Innovation and Customization in Business (00:29:36)Attracting and Hiring Smart People (00:30:05)Marketing Strategies for Shops (00:31:42)Organic Social Media and Community Building (00:33:32)Work-Life Balance and Turning Points (00:34:10)Joining Peer Groups and Business Turnaround (00:35:36)Leadership Development and Delegation (00:37:07)Closing Reflections and Family Involvement (00:38:05)
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everybody, it's Carm Caprio Remarkable Results Radio. It's another Town Hall Academy. We are at the Institute Summit in Amelia Island, Florida. Okay, so I left Buffalo with four feet of snow and I came down here and of course it snowed last night. No it didn't.
Carm Capriotto: I'm only kidding what beautiful weather going on here. And we're so happy to be here at the Institute Summit. We're here February 6th through ninth recording this, so whenever you hear it, you'll know that it was a while back. Lots of stuff going on here. The theme is being stand out. And a lot of innovation being discussed, so we're really happy to be here.
Carm Capriotto: But before we get going, couple of great words from our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold certified program. This program is for the best of the best who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers.
Carm Capriotto: Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop. Hey, let's face it. Your shop management system is the most critical tool in your shop, and Napa Tracks will move your shop into the SMS Fastlane with onsite training, six days a week. Support and local representation.
Carm Capriotto: Find NAPA tracks on the web at N-A-R-A-C s.com. I have a great team here today. I got Jason Brennan from Fine Tune Auto. Hi Jason. How you doing? I am great sir. How's business?
Jason Brennan: Going well, thank you. 
Carm Capriotto: And you're here to what? Uh, hang out, learn, talk to your peers.
Jason Brennan: All the above. 
Carm Capriotto: Are you in a special group? 
Jason Brennan: I'm in the institute.
Jason Brennan: G. P. G Group. Three. 
Carm Capriotto: Cool. Group three. Best one. And that's the thing I love about the institute's groups. There's a little bit of a rivalry there, isn't there? You know Your brother's here with you? Patrick Brennan. Hi Patrick. How you doing? Good. You are not in the business, are you? I'm not. And we convinced him to come on because I think he may have some very interesting things to say.
Carm Capriotto: I think he will. 'cause I know he helps you a lot in the business. One of the things that I found fascinating about you guys, or especially the story you told me about the family plumbing business. So you were a family plumbing business, and what I wanna know is how did it become automotive? 
Jason Brennan: That's a good question.
Jason Brennan: I don't know if it was just that I, you know, I did so much plumbing growing up. I was already tired of it by the time I started my career or what it was. I don't know. But automotive, I, you know, that's a good question. We've talked before I started out. Working on lawnmowers and yeah, whatever. I was always just taking things apart and that kind of just naturally progressed into working on cars.
Jason Brennan: I was a technician, so got into the automotive business, but I don't think I would've had the fortitude or the courage to do it if I hadn't grown up. You know? It certainly had helped to grow up in a household. Where, you know, family, business and a, a service business was the environment that I grew up around and in 
Carm Capriotto: to me today.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, there's a lot of discussion out there about excellent customer service. If you forget about the customer, you must well forget about your business. 
Jason Brennan: Absolutely. 
Carm Capriotto: I don't know if we're getting enough customer service training, and I don't mean. Here's how you do it, but the service advisors at our counter today, I think it's the most considered educational series that I have seen anywhere.
Carm Capriotto: Every coaching company is including the institute. They've got a great focus on that front counter and that customer experience. 
Jason Brennan: I agree. They need to, they're service professionals. This isn't a job. And probably never should have been a job where, well, since I know how to fix cars, I'll just go up and you know, maybe I'll write service and I'll advise customers.
Jason Brennan: Can you explain to them the workings, the details of how the car works, why you should or shouldn't do the repair? Maybe. But it is a separate profession. You have to understand as a service advisor, those people have to understand sales. They have to understand customer service and they have to understand enough about the product that they're selling or recommending, and they have to understand all those things.
Jason Brennan: And then if they're gonna be a store manager, they need to understand business too. So it's a lot of stuff. 
Carm Capriotto: I'm curious, Jason, do they need to know more about themselves also? Because if you don't understand who you are and how you communicate, I think it's awfully tough to have a, I mean, well, it's my way or the highway kind of thing.
Carm Capriotto: There's gotta be flexibility built into building relationships. 
Jason Brennan: I would say yes they do, because you know, a lot of people just have a naturally good communication style and ability. But let's face it, some of us don't. And so my natural style might not be the right style. To be communicating to a customer with how'd you survive all these years?
Jason Brennan: So I know it's, I don't know, 
Carm Capriotto: it just happened. They loved you for some reason and they kept coming back. 
Jason Brennan: No, I actually, I did, I took service advisor training when I wrote service, of course. And that helped. So that's great. By the way, I needed it. It is great. And if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't be here. 
Carm Capriotto: You know, for you to, to realize this is a weakness, I may have to do something to fix that, or can I get better?
Carm Capriotto: And I'm on this soapbox of late, you know, this whole language shift thing that's going on in my world that I'm doing keynotes on. One of the most important things is the word removing the word training Jason, and making it the word education. Hmm. Because we train dogs, but we educate people and we go to places to learn.
Carm Capriotto: And there's an educator in, in the room. What are your thoughts on that? 
Jason Brennan: I think that's right. Never thought of it that way, but that's true. 
Carm Capriotto: So if you sit down with your people, you've got this continuing education program for them, I'm gonna send you off on a great training program so when you come back, you'll be able to fetch the ball really well.
Carm Capriotto: I'm really being facetious and I'm really kind of kidding here. Right. But it just hit me so hard. As you know, the Super Bowl is being played in a couple of days from recording this. And I think about athletes, you know, going to training, doing training. And why are we calling what we're doing training.
Carm Capriotto: It's one of those lazy words that has crept into our industry, and I think in order to lift even telling our customers, listen, our guys have gone through a continuous education program. In fact, they get 40 to 50 hours a year. I think it's important for the client. To know what we invest. Well, why do you charge so much?
Carm Capriotto: We don't need to give them the litany of it, but I don't know if you know, but we send all our people to, you know, we're, we're constantly educating them about what, do you have any idea what that computer is on four wheels and. How it works. That's why you're here. Mm-hmm. All that stuff. And I think it could be incorporated into marketing.
Carm Capriotto: And Patrick, I know that's what you're helping your brother do. Talk to me about that. 
Patrick Brennan: Yeah. Well, I have a background in home services and I kind of grew up in the home service business. Wait a minute, does this anything to 
Carm Capriotto: do 
Patrick Brennan: with plumbing? Yes. Air conditioning and plumbing. Okay. That's kind of my background.
Patrick Brennan: But in my career there, I, uh, helped form our marketing budgets across a big business. So. I learned a lot there and that's kind of, Jay bounces ideas off of me and I bounce ideas off of him and, but I like what you said about training and education. To me, training sounds. Like it's not permanent, and education to me is an ongoing, continuous thing.
Carm Capriotto: I love that. 
Patrick Brennan: I don't know. That's what I think about when I think of those two words. Well, 
Carm Capriotto: thank you for helping with that because the more I talk to people, we've been gone for almost 10 days on a road trip. In talking to so many people and I, I've occasionally been known to come here. I have an idea, I wanna run by you, but thank you for that.
Carm Capriotto: Some things that you're helping Jason with, you know, you say he to his ideas back and forth. What's a recent one that you were able to. Use of your brothers an idea. 
Jason Brennan: The most recent thing we've been working on is reputation management. Ooh. So, I mean, we've been talking about it for years, but Patrick actually already had a software platform.
Jason Brennan: He does all kinds of stuff. We don't have time to even talk about all the stuff that he's involved in. But one of the things is that he is doing reputation management for me. And built a software and him and I worked together on a word tracks or a script, whatever you wanna call it, things to say to customers that let them know we would appreciate them giving us a review.
Jason Brennan: Whatever it is, just be honest, give us a review. And the software sends them a reminder and then they give us reviews. We're able to get more reviews, and that's, you know, part of our reputation. 
Carm Capriotto: I think this is huge. Yeah. A reputation management piece of software and using the words, is it written word, typed words, electronic words, or is it the words that we are helping our service advisors say?
Patrick Brennan: I can speak to that a little bit. It's mainly like the surface advisors, the people who interact with the customers. They know our system is gonna send out a request for feedback to customers and to every customer. Now that they know that that's gonna happen, they kind of prime the customers before they know they're gonna get a request for the feedback on the service.
Carm Capriotto: Do you educate them on that? I mean, how you coach them, you rehearse that 
Jason Brennan: you actually Yes, and that it, rehearse is a good word. I think of rehearsal as a format. I think of that as training, so I would think. Education is, okay, I'm gonna go learn about a topic. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna understand it now and I know the theory.
Jason Brennan: And then training is repeating that, you know, repeating those words you wanna memorize or that process that you wanna follow or whatever it is. That's, so we do training. Our service staff do training every morning from seven 30 to 7 45. So if you had that up, that's a lot of hours a year. And they do training with each other.
Jason Brennan: And then on Fridays. We'll do a Google meet. I'm usually there and all of them. So there's currently six counter people and myself, and then we'll take turns hosting that meeting. So whatever we've been training on, just like a sports team that re runs, plays over over. That's how you get good at it. Yeah.
Jason Brennan: So we're getting good at it, we're practicing it, and so it becomes second nature and we could just do it on the spot and we could focus on the customer. Not having to think about what process am I supposed to do right now? What am I supposed to say? Oh yeah, it was that. And then, you know, because when you get busy, you know, sometimes it's like juggling chainsaws.
Jason Brennan: I stole that phrase from one of my store manager managers. I thought it was funny, but it's kind of true. So those things need to be second nature. 
Carm Capriotto: I fallen in love with what you just said. First of all, thanks Carm education is the right thing to do, but when we have to make sure we solidify. The process, the system, the greetings, the everything in the business.
Carm Capriotto: We're gonna go train. I love it. Seven 30 to 7 45. We train on service advising. Give me an idea of what they cover, what they do. 
Jason Brennan: It could be anything that we need to be good at, that we do a lot. So it could be. Listening. One example would be listening to plane, back phone calls. How did we handle this phone call?
Jason Brennan: Let's listen to it. Let's talk about it. 
Carm Capriotto: Is it public? Everyone gets a chance to listen to each other's calls. 
Jason Brennan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, in each store it'll be, you know, the two counter people, they'll listen to each other's calls together. Okay. And then critique it. You know, the once a week meeting that we're doing, it'll be.
Jason Brennan: One shop's turn to host and they'll play a call over the meeting and then everybody gets to critique it. So it could be phone calls, it could be, let's talk about this process for reviews. You know, this reputation management. How are we doing it? Let's talk about our inspection process. How do we do that?
Jason Brennan: What kind of challenges did we have last week? What good things did we have last week? KPIs, you know, 
Carm Capriotto: I'm fascinated by your ROI and chime in anytime, Patrick. You're doing all of this, you're listening to each other's calls, you are motivating someone to maybe possibly get better. I could have done that.
Carm Capriotto: Have you seen a direct reflection in your sales growth because of this? 
Jason Brennan: Absolutely. Yeah. We've added a third store in the last year, so it's hard to say, you know what the true growth would've been if we had three established stores. What I have for sure, what I can say I have noticed is I've noticed improvements.
Jason Brennan: Improvements where you mentioned the people's natural speaking style or something. I've noticed improvements in the way that we communicate with customers because I can listen to calls and I can be there in the shops and observe what's going on. And noticed an I improving in people's 
Carm Capriotto: confidence. 
Jason Brennan: Yeah.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. Confidence and willingness to learn. At first, it's a little awkward. Jason comes in and goes, Hey, guess what? We're gonna play these calls that you screwed up on. So try to find your worst ones and then put 'em. That's what I want you to do. Find your worst ones. 'cause it's great to congratulate each other for the good ones, but we want to solve problems for you and figure out where we can improve.
Jason Brennan: We're always trying to be the best, so do that. There were a bunch of good calls on those Zoom meet or those Google meets, but, and one guy who I'm thinking of who has had, I think, the biggest improvement from where he started. Played some pretty bad calls and then he said, you know, I know I screwed these up.
Jason Brennan: That's what we're supposed to do here, is to get better. We're supposed to be vulnerable and figure out, say, Hey, this is one I'm having a struggle with. So I've seen huge improvements by doing that. 
Carm Capriotto: Is your software, does any AI on your. Calls 
Jason Brennan: We do. I haven't tried it yet. I have inbounds. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, I've seen the dashboard for inbound.
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. And David Boyd's a great guy and he is, he's a sponsor on our network. When I saw the percentage of talking about tires, hey, you guys are talking about tires. We never sell tires. It's amazing how that can happen. The thing that I love about our discussion. Is that every morning we're working with the team for personal improvement.
Jason Brennan: Exactly. That kind of ties in. What I really liked about this summit so far was Dan's comment about teams and, 'cause we're working on with our managers, especially, we're starting with managers and we're gonna, you know, roll it out to everybody. We're working on figuring out what it takes to put together a good team and have a cohesive team, and something Dan said.
Jason Brennan: Yesterday was that it's individuals on the team are what's gonna ultimately make the difference between success and failure. People make the team succeed, the team's, the team, and everybody fails or succeeds together, but it's individuals who make that happen. So we do need to work on individual personal improvement to make the team what it needs to be.
Carm Capriotto: It's amazing. When you think about teams, and I love your analogy about each individual is an individual. You're getting ready to do a timing job and you know that the tools you need to lay out, they all do a different thing. They all have their, their strength in the job. And when we put teams together, sometimes there's a broken tool.
Jason Brennan: Yeah, there could be. And you know, if I was on a team, I am on a team, I'm kinda like the coach of three teams, sort of, if you will, with the three separate shops to count out and then, or maybe the owner and the managers or the coaches. I don't know what the real deal is with that, but if there's somebody that's either not the right fit for the team or not performing, I know I wouldn't wanna be that person, 
Carm Capriotto: but that's you.
Carm Capriotto: That's you, Jason. There are some people that are just willing to just go down the highway, get on the bus and go for the ride. 
Patrick Brennan: I think his process, uh, every morning training and rehearsing is really valuable because you cannot quickly identify individuals who are just not gonna cut it on your team. If you're doing this very regularly and hopefully you're doing everything you can, that's what that provides as well too.
Patrick Brennan: And the education to me is more the why. You know, you understand the fundamental, the training, like Jason said, is like the rehearsing and just. Building the confidence 
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Carm Capriotto: Yes, a learning management system tailored to each role in your company. Simply Put Tracks was designed and built for shop owners just like you. Visit us on the web at Napa Tracks. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. I've been doing this for 10 years. You're the first one who brought up this rehearsing thing.
Carm Capriotto: It is such a strong thing. I gotta do more on this. The training is really rehearsing. Let's get the word training away. Let's talk about education. Again, if a technology specialist in the bays goes to a scope and he comes back and he doesn't use what he learned, and so maybe we then say, go and train on what you learned or start rehearsing what your latest educational class was, 
Jason Brennan: right.
Jason Brennan: Go rehearse it. It's a good example with technicians. I think they tend to naturally know that they need to do that. When I was a tech, I remember going to a John Thornton misfire class. This is probably like in the, in the early two thousands, 90% of it was over my head and I was thinking I had just opened my shop and I came from several different places, but I never really got into diagnostics that heavily.
Jason Brennan: And then I learned all these new things that I didn't know, found out about these things I didn't know. Took a bunch of notes and I thought, man, am I ever gonna be able to do this? I don't know. There's nobody else that works here. It's just me. How am I gonna learn this? And when I put it into practice was really when I learned it.
Jason Brennan: It might have taken me longer, I might not have have been able to charge people for all the time I spent on it. But that was the cost of training to me, is the extra time I had to stay after work and learn or whatever I had to do. And we have technicians that do the same thing. The ones who are really committed to learning higher level technology, diagnosis, and you know, programming or whatever it is they're doing.
Jason Brennan: Even mechanical stuff. They'll often, I'll find out that they got together with some other techs, you know, other techs in the industry on a Saturday and took a bunch of waveforms or something and put 'em, then shared 'em all and came back to their shops with a mental tool set and some, you know, computer tools.
Jason Brennan: To be able to do their job effectively and efficiently. They devoted to the training that allowed them to show up to work with a valuable skillset that they can exchange for a really good paycheck and doing a good work. 
Carm Capriotto: That's a great story. That's pure geek. 
Jason Brennan: Oh, 
Carm Capriotto: sure. Yeah. When these guys get together, I love that.
Carm Capriotto: Wow. You talk about John Thornton, one of our best industry trainers to come back from one of his classes and be so humble. It's the old story. I don't know what I don't know. Right. Yeah. I just don't know. Yeah. 
Patrick Brennan: A lot of times that's what training and education is, is figuring out how little you know. I know.
Carm Capriotto: And then take that. And say, I gotta do more, or I gotta dig in or I've gotta find another class. 'cause a lot of times you go to the same class, different trainer, or even the same trainer a year ago, and you test, let me see, hmm. One to 10. I actually knew 4% or 40% of what I didn't the last time. And I still have more to go.
Carm Capriotto: And I think you take the education you get, you go back, you use it, you rehearse with it, you put it to real good usage. And I've always said that when you go to a seminar, I've said this for years and I've known it myself, when you go and learn something. If you can come back and bring that to your people and you teach, even if you go to one of your people, you sent them to vision to do a couple of technology classes and they came back, then let them teach for one hour what they learned, the teaching experience solidifies a lot of what they learned because they were, were able to respeak it.
Patrick Brennan: Absolutely. 
Jason Brennan: I agree. I think that's one of the best ways to master. A topic or a skill is, you know, whatever a profession is to teach it. You'll get asked questions that you never thought of making things you never thought of before, right? Then you have to figure it out, so you're really learning as you're teaching.
Carm Capriotto: What makes you really successful? 
Jason Brennan: I don't know. When I get there, I'll let you know what it was. Pick 
Carm Capriotto: one. 
Jason Brennan: I no. That success. Pick one of the greatest 
Carm Capriotto: traits that you have that you say, I just can't believe this is working so well for me. 
Jason Brennan: What makes us successful as a company and gives me person the most amount of personal satisfaction has changed over the years.
Jason Brennan: It used to be a hard diagnostic challenge or something on a car. Now, I think what makes us successful is the effort that the people who work for us put in toward fulfilling our mission. When someone, you know in what gives me, you know, satisfaction about what I do now, making a good profit is always important so we can have the right resources to continue doing what we're doing and everybody else does too.
Jason Brennan: And, but seeing people succeed and make improvements and achieve the highest level that they can in their career, achieving their goals, being a part of that is what? Makes me feel like I'm being successful. 
Carm Capriotto: 10 years ago, you would've never felt that thought that 
Jason Brennan: I don't think I would've 
Carm Capriotto: because you never got out of the bays.
Carm Capriotto: Right. 
Patrick Brennan: I'll tell you what I think, one thing I think made Jay so successful is perseverance. If I had to say one thing, I mean, yeah, there were probably a a hundred times I'm on the phone with him and he's like, what the hell do I do? I, and if you don't mind me telling this story, one time he called me and he's like, I had to sell my snowmobiles.
Patrick Brennan: I had to sell something, this and that to make payroll this year. And he's like, I got. Some cash in the drawer at home and that's all I got left and he's like, I'm this close to going out of business, but he's far from that now, and because he stuck with it, I think that's what's made him successful. 
Jason Brennan: I love that story.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. I've been there, you know, a couple of times. So that was actually around the time that I joined the, what was RLO training's, bottom Line Impact Groups. Sure. Now the institute, so, um, 
Carm Capriotto: BLIG. Mm-hmm. That was a great group. Yeah. Did you come over to the institute after Cecil bought the RLO? 
Jason Brennan: Yeah, they kept all the groups intact.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. So they're really still the same. Some of the same core people are still with those groups. Yeah. So the group three is still the same, some of the same people. Yeah. Some new guys. Some new people. So 
Carm Capriotto: I heard you just had a peer review. GPG. 
Jason Brennan: We hosted a meeting. Yeah. Okay. We hosted a group meeting. You hosted a group meeting.
Jason Brennan: Right. So our group meetings, most of 'em are hosted at a shop or by a shop. So 
Carm Capriotto: you hosted? 
Jason Brennan: We hosted, but they didn't review your place did. Oh, they did? Yeah. Ah, that's what, I guess what I'm need it is a peer review. Okay. I just didn't think of it that. How'd it go? It went pretty well. Did you work 
Carm Capriotto: hard in prep for it or they just said, come on in, I'm perfect.
Jason Brennan: No, we did a lot of upfront, you know, the low hanging fruit, you know, I've been in the group long enough that I know to have like fire extinguisher signs and don't have the first aid kit in the bathroom and to make sure you have coat hooks and those kind of things, you know, just don't I. 'cause I didn't want, yeah, 
Patrick Brennan: pro tips.
Jason Brennan: Pro tips. I didn't want it to be a waste of people's time and just go there and find all this stuff that I already know I should have had done. So tried to, and that's how I'm gonna get the most value out of it, is to have them find, I wanted them to dig deep and find problems. Find room for improvement.
Jason Brennan: Problems are opportunities. Yeah. So, and they did so working. So you took care 
Carm Capriotto: of the fluff that you didn't want them to find the easy Yeah, the, I walked by it every day. I'm not sure why for the last four years, but I've never fixed that. Right now I've done it. 'cause I don't want them to pick on me. Go deep.
Jason Brennan: Right. That was our approach and we did, the manager was involved in that meeting and they came to the shop. Other business owners, 
Carm Capriotto: I've watched it happen. I've actually watched a GPG group do a peer review on a shop. And it was exciting to be there. I thought there was a lot of fun going on. They found a lot of stuff, but the owner had a chance to say confession to himself for almost six months before and clean and paint the ceiling and get new lights and all this stuff.
Carm Capriotto: And he says, I always wanted to do this. There's nothing like the people that you work closely with and that's why I'm such a believer in networking groups or peer groups like they have here at the institute. To rock your socks, to make some profound changes to let your conscious boil up and say, yeah, coulda, woulda, shoulda, gotta right.
Patrick Brennan: So it is kinda like when you're, you know, you're having guests over the house, you don't clean the house so well until the guests come over and it's similar. It's like your business, you know, you're gonna prepare for that. So I do see a lot of value in that deep cleaning. Exactly. 
Jason Brennan: Yeah. And they did a good job with that, you know, with all that stuff.
Jason Brennan: So I was proud of them. Yeah. I like the peer group process because it's more of a peer group, it's less of somebody standing there telling you things. We'll get information from the Institute, but I think we get just as much information from each other than we do from Aaron Woods, and he's a great facilitator.
Jason Brennan: And I've looked into, over the years, I've looked into probably all the different coaching or consulting groups that there are. This one was the most customizable meaning. It was up to me. I'd be held accountable by my peers for the results that I say that I want to get. Of course, they're gonna help me to figure out what that should look like, but if I say, well, I'm targeting a 20% net profit and these other KPIs, and also I want good employee retention, of course, and this many customers, this many cars per month, et cetera, it's me making those commitments.
Jason Brennan: To my peers and to the facilitator and how I do it. It's just up to me. Nobody's gonna tell me, well, you have to do this process this way. That might not work for me. I probably shouldn't deviate from it if I don't know anything else to do. But I wanted the flexibility to be able to customize my auto repair business to serve the customers the best possible way that it can.
Jason Brennan: You know, and we're not robots. I don't treat my employees like robots. We do have certain things we have to do. And I have certain things I always have to do, but other than that, it's, you know, us as people figuring out, using our brains and being smart about things and figuring out how we want to do it.
Jason Brennan: And that's what I think you need to have that in order for a business to be truly unique in the marketplace and have competitive advantages. 'cause there has to be innovation. If you just follow a rigorous set process all the time and it has to be that way and everybody's doing it that way, then we're just.
Jason Brennan: Too similar to, I think like a box store model or something, rather than When 
Carm Capriotto: you say innovation, Jason, do you mean innovation in leadership? Innovation in being able to retain and hire innovation in policies, or you're talking about innovation in the shop with technology? 
Jason Brennan: I would say all of it. Yeah. You know, just anything.
Jason Brennan: But when people are allowed to think for themselves, they might have a set of rules to follow, but when you hire smart people and they're allowed to think for themselves. And the leadership listens to those people, big improvements can happen. 
Carm Capriotto: How do you hire smart people? Help me. 
Jason Brennan: That's a good question.
Jason Brennan: First of all, I think you have to have a business that attracts those kind of people. The smart people are looking to work for good businesses because they're smart enough to figure out this place seems like they provide a good product to customers. And I'm smart enough to figure out that that's what businesses do mainly.
Jason Brennan: And they're probably also gonna be able to provide a good workplace for me. And have the revenue stream to pay me well for my knowledge. So I'm gonna work there. So I think, and, and the culture's good. It seems like when I walk in there, or I drove, I, I've had technicians tell me, they drove by my shop and looked at our guru reviews and all that stuff to see and they went in, or you know, kinda walked around just to see if everybody was smiling and telling jokes or if it was completely silent.
Jason Brennan: And all they heard was tools. That was part of their decision making process on where to work. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, and it goes back to this whole reputation management thing, Patrick. I think not only is the reputation management important to the client. It really has so much to do with being able to attract great people.
Patrick Brennan: It's a recruiting tool. Absolutely. You know, you're, everybody knows intuitively your reputation matters, right? You are your reputation. You wanna be proud of that at the end of the day, like, you know, it's a public thing when it's reputation management. So yeah, definitely recruiting tool. 
Carm Capriotto: Home services, that's what you do.
Carm Capriotto: What is it exactly? 
Patrick Brennan: Well, I came up in that industry. I'm not in the industry anymore. I focus on helping local service companies with marketing, but I kind of grew up in the air conditioning and plumbing. Industry and I had a lot of experience with the marketing and the operations side of the business.
Carm Capriotto: What kind of marketing do shops have to do? All of it. I, I knew the answer to that. It 
Patrick Brennan: needs, yeah, you need a well-rounded approach. 
Carm Capriotto: So what you talking about internet, you're talking about social media, we're talking about video. Help me. 
Patrick Brennan: Well, as much as you can afford to do, but my advice is to usually small businesses is start with reputation management.
Patrick Brennan: That should be your baseline. If you're gonna spend $1 on marketing. Spend it on reputation and you're talking 
Carm Capriotto: about getting reviews. 
Patrick Brennan: Getting reviews, okay. Improve your public review profile. After that, I recommend direct response marketing, whatever's the highest ROI for you. I wouldn't focus on social media or branding until you have a big budget.
Carm Capriotto: Really? What are you expecting? Somebody that has a big budget would spend on social media. 
Patrick Brennan: That's a good question for automotive shops, a three store chain 
Carm Capriotto: like Jason. Well, 
Jason Brennan: that's, that's a good question. Yeah. We're not doing a very good job with our social media, 
Carm Capriotto: but if you're growing, do you need it? 
Jason Brennan: I think it can be done if the owner or someone, a spouse or somebody in the company.
Jason Brennan: Wants to run it themselves, they can be pretty effective without any cost. 
Jason Brennan: Mm-hmm. 
Jason Brennan: One of our shops, the manager's spouse is doing it for us just 'cause she likes to do it and he said, Hey, can I have Jen do our Facebook page? She's really good at that. I said, sure. We're not doing much with it anyway. Go have at it.
Jason Brennan: Just put good stuff on there and. It's gotten a lot of followers. I don't know how to track it with a, a metric kind of A-A-K-P-I and numbers kind of guy, so I don't know how to track it. So if I was paying somebody to do it, I wouldn't know, you know, what I was looking for anyway. Not my strong point. I don't know what I should, you know, if I was gonna hire a company to do it and I don't want it to be cookie cutter, 'cause I've tried to do that before where it's just all the same standard stuff on there all the time.
Jason Brennan: Right. That I don't think people are really interested in. 
Carm Capriotto: Hire. Just hire Patrick. 
Patrick Brennan: No, actually I will actually say the best social media that I've seen is the most genuine. Yeah. And that comes from within the company because no company you hire can have the same voice or promote your business like you do.
Patrick Brennan: And I think what he's doing is great. The best social media is like posting pictures of the team. 
Carm Capriotto: Organic. 
Patrick Brennan: Yeah, organic. That's a good way to put it. You know, somebody's birthday, it's so and so's birthday today or so and so volunteers at this church over here and they did this event. That's a community building and actually it's also a recruiting tool.
Patrick Brennan: You know, your social media outlets are recruiting tools, and I think that's the best way to do social media. As a smaller, medium sized business, 
Carm Capriotto: we can go a million different places. Are you happy with what you're getting outta life right now, Jason? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There were times you were worried, obviously we've heard the story.
Jason Brennan: Yeah, there were times I was worried. There were times I was working way too many hours. 80 a hundred hour weeks were normal for years. 
Carm Capriotto: Call that being stuck in a hobby. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna say that you were in total struggle mode. Oh yeah. I'm such a big fan of coaches and networking groups because I really do think if you fix your attitude that I need help, I'm not Mr.
Carm Capriotto: Know-it-all that, oh, I wanted to prove to the world that I can do it. But you don't really notice that you're not. Yeah, you are, but you don't wanna admit it. A lot of people, you know, their egos are get in the way. Take us to the day that you said, listen, I gotta turn my life around. Right. And my business, 
Jason Brennan: there's kind of two different times for two different types of turning it around.
Jason Brennan: The financial, I knew I couldn't operate at a loss or a break even, or whatever wasn't gonna work. I wasn't gonna be allowed to continue operating if I didn't make a profit. 
Carm Capriotto: You were done. So 
Jason Brennan: yeah, I was almost done a couple times and just, I just somehow, by the grace of God or or willpower and whatever, all those things, and talking to people.
Jason Brennan: Talking it through with, you know, that's one of the things I do with my brother Pat, is just talk with him. The whole sounding board thing. He's just a smart guy. So yeah. Anyway, talk about that. Talk with a bunch of smart people. Get their ideas, but hey, how do you think I can get out of this? I started that with RLO.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. Which is now the institute in 2011. In 2011, and John Effler was working there was the facilitator, 
Carm Capriotto: great group, great facilitator. And did you come out of those first couple of meetings saying, whoa, this is gonna be good, or, I have a lot of work to do? 
Jason Brennan: Both. I came out relieved because I thought, okay, I think I found some of the answers.
Jason Brennan: I was looking for some of the solutions. To my problems. I know what I need to do now what? That's what I needed. I just needed to know. Jason, 
Carm Capriotto: what did it take for you to do the work this, you know, what kind of flu did you have to do in your world? 
Jason Brennan: I had to slowly start working on the business and not so much on cars, so I was still working in the business, but on different things.
Jason Brennan: I needed to increase my car count. At the time it was really low. I wasn't in a that shop. Still there doing very well now. In Lansing, but we didn't have enough cars to work on. It wasn't 'cause we weren't doing good work. We were do fixing cars right all the time with a great warranty to not enough vehicles to work on.
Jason Brennan: Part of that had to do with not answering the phone correctly. You know, incorrect verbiage, not conveying the value that we provide to customers was part of the problem. And also part of it was marketing. And we weren't doing enough to attract new customers. We weren't doing any customer retention. I didn't even know what our customer retention numbers were or very many numbers.
Jason Brennan: I knew how to read a p and l, but I didn't know about all the automotive specific KPIs that I should look at and where I, what a good benchmark would be for those. 
Carm Capriotto: What's next on your list of improving your skillset? 
Jason Brennan: Well, I'll tell you, you know what I'm working on right now? My skillset right now that I want to improve is teaching leadership, you know, becoming a better leader and also how to teach other people how to lead would be an ultimate goal I'd like to achieve in that area.
Carm Capriotto: That's great because you've got a growing business 
Jason Brennan: and I can't be at all the shops all the time. I can be in them. When I need to be or when I'm able to be. But somebody's gotta steer the ship, you know? And, 
Carm Capriotto: but you don't want many Jasons, you want individuals, right. Leader, individual leaders 
Jason Brennan: that Right.
Jason Brennan: Who believe in our core values and Right. Can carry out the mission and the culture of the people Do that. Taking care of our customers and the employees who they oversee. 
Carm Capriotto: I love this. I think we covered a lot of great territory here. Good to have you on again. And Patrick, for you to just come in like that.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, you brought him to the Institute's conference here just because you wanted him to. Hear all this. 
Jason Brennan: I'm hoping he is having a good time and learning some things. I 
Carm Capriotto: bet you will and can from 
Patrick Brennan: it. I learned something. These types of things I love because I take a little bit of something from every one of 'em.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Think about all the marketing companies that are here that you can just go up and, 
Patrick Brennan: yeah. Or just guys like Jay or you. I could talk to you guys and learn something, you know. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, 
Patrick Brennan: it's all gonna benefit all 
Carm Capriotto: of us. Yeah. Itself. Nothing like having family here to Yeah, it was, it was to run stuff by, 
Patrick Brennan: yeah, it was kind of random.
Patrick Brennan: He just said, Hey, you wanna go to this thing with me? And I'm like, okay. 
Jason Brennan: I guess. Sure. Well, I kind of told him he was going. Yeah. And then I, well, I asked him, and then after he said, yeah, I said, well, I already told him you're going. So 
Carm Capriotto: they called that voluntold, right? Yes. I love it. Oh, this is great. Jason Brennan, fine Tune Auto and his brother Patrick.
Carm Capriotto: This is a blast. Thanks for your wisdom and your insights. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thank 
Jason Brennan: you. Appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast. Until next time.
 

133 - Building Businesses and Believing in Better Days with Cecil Bullard

133 -Building Businesses and Believing in Better Days with Cecil Bullard
June 9, 2025 - 00:40:00
 
Show Summary:
Recorded live at the Institute Summit 2025, explore what it truly means to stand out in today’s evolving automotive industry. Cecil Bullard covers major industry shifts, including electric and autonomous vehicles, the growing influence of private equity, and the increasing specialization of shops. Cecil also opens up about leadership, mentorship, and the personal habits that drive success, such as effective time management, the power of “mindless work,” and adapting communication styles using tools like the DISC profile. Packed with real-world advice on business planning, self-belief, and resilience, this episode is essential listening for industry professionals aiming to thrive and lead amidst ongoing change and innovation.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction to the Episode (00:00:00)Getting to Know Cecil Bullard (00:01:49)Advice and Mentorship (00:04:49)Industry Trends and Technology (00:05:19)Specialization and Shop Survival (00:06:42)Time Management and Productivity (00:08:05)Stop Stopping: Overcoming Self-Limitation (00:09:56)Personality Types and Communication (00:11:26)Future of ADAS, EVs, and Specialty Shops (00:16:56)Private Equity and Industry Consolidation (00:18:25)Shop Valuation and Selling (00:20:53)Planning for Succession and Exit (00:28:22)Mentorship and Coaching (00:31:07)Lessons to Younger Self (00:33:04)Wealth, Security, and Time (00:34:10)Career Path and Commitment (00:37:42)
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6Mqmx8_uY
 
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
 
Links & Resources: 
Want to learn more? Click Here
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See The Institute's events list: Click Here
Want access to our online classes? Click Here
________________________________________
Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everybody. Carm Caprio, remarkable Results Radio in Amelia Island. Near Jacksonville. If you've not been here, this is a huge, huge place. I mean, the beach is right over there, but I have never seen it yet. 
Carm Capriotto: When I come to these events, I work my butt off. Probably like you Cecil, right?
Carm Capriotto: Go, go, go. We're at the Institute's Summit 2025. We are the institute.com. Thank you to Cecil and Kent for having us here. The theme stand out. And it's actually been the entire, everything that's happened here, all the keynoters, all the breakout sessions, and some of the best shop owner leaders ever. I'm so impressed with 'em.
Carm Capriotto: So thank you for this award from our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold Certified program. This program is for the best of the best, who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers. Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop.
Carm Capriotto: Hey, for over 30 years, NAPA Tracks has made selecting the right shop management system easy by offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry. We'll prove to you that tracks is the single best shot management system in the business. Find Napa tracks on the web at N apa TRA cs.com. I am back with Cecil Bullard, the CEO of the Institute.
Carm Capriotto: I saw your speech on the first day. You knocked it out of the park as usual. But I brought Cecil in here maybe to talk a little bit about the industry, but to find out a little bit more about him. What do you do for fun? Cecil work. I knew you were gonna say that. Why did I know that? 
Cecil Bullard: I like woodworking. So building furniture.
Cecil Bullard: Woods. Interesting. 'cause it's not metal and that's cool. Yeah, I love my family, so spending time with my grandkids. My dad did not build relationships with his grandchildren, and I just thought that was really important. So I try hard to do that, you know, if I do what my wife wants, it's been certain shows, so every once in a while I'm on the couch for Cool.
Cecil Bullard: For a day watching. Yeah, whatever.
Carm Capriotto: I love it. It seems like there's a decade or every decade something kind of different happens with your life. Your world. Here come the grandkids. Oh, it's a new, fun, absolute thing I wanna do. You know, last year was for me, splitting wood. Oh wow. Honest to God, we have burned more wood this year.
Carm Capriotto: Maybe we're going on our third cord. Then ever before, it's been a really cold winter. I have seven and a half acres of woods. We lost 20 ash trees because of the ash Boer. Yeah. Last year we had 10 taken down. I had the arbor take the bottom half and I took the top and I split all of it, and now I have another 10 or 15 that I have to do and I can't wait for the snow to melt in buffalo.
Cecil Bullard: So you can do that. Yes. I always love what I call mindless work. I love to mow the lawn. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I don't have to think about what I'm doing. I can think about all kinds of other things, but, and when I'm done, I can look and go, wow, that looks really good. Yeah. I mowed the lawn 
Carm Capriotto: instead of worrying about my next interview.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Or the next edit, or the next production, or the next conference. I worry about not hurting my fingers. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think mindless work, what I would call mindless work like that is extremely valuable. Yeah. Now, I don't know if my shoulders would handle splitting wood. Mowing the lawn. Anything I like to read too, by the way, I'm just an avid reader.
Cecil Bullard: I read. Between three and four books a week. Just no kidding. Yeah. For fun. So when I can't sleep, I'm reading, if you read 
Carm Capriotto: Focus Factor still Focus I, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah, actually I think I'm about halfway through that one. Me, me too. I have about four books open right now. Right. 
Carm Capriotto: And that's a cool way. Zig Ziglar's son, I interviewed him a bunch of years ago, he's sitting on his couch and Barry Barrett made the introduction for me.
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. And he was on with us. He's got a stack of books on his couch and I asked him, and I said. Why all the books he says, to your point, he says, I read so much. I kind of lose interest. I know I want to finish. I go to another one, and then I ask this great question. I says, do you read them all to the very end?
Carm Capriotto: And he goes, hell no, Carm. He says, if I think I got out of the book what I wanted three quarters through, it's on my shelf. 
Cecil Bullard: I would say I, not only do I read them all to the end, but I might read them three or four times. Over time because it's like attending a class. You know, you get a good instructor and you go in and you're like, you come out and you're just pumped up, but you can't get it all right.
Cecil Bullard: Oh no, you're right. And so sometimes you gotta read the book a second or a third time, and then the older I get it's like, oh, I know where was that. I think it's one of the things that are gonna keep me on my toes is just kinda keeping my head in it. Right. I get it. Hey, get any advice over all the years that you still follow today?
Cecil Bullard: So many wonderful people in my life. You know, so many mentors that have helped me be where I need to be. I think that the advice that's probably been most valuable, and I, I don't even know that I could tell you who finally got it through my head. It's like, I think believe in yourself and believe that the world is a good place and that whatever problems you're having, you're gonna get through that and tomorrow's gonna be a a better day.
Cecil Bullard: You watch the industry, what trends do you watch? I think we got a lot of issues right now. Obviously technology is changing the vehicles, so self-driving cars, they're gonna be here at some point and whoever owns the self-driving cars. So just had some conversations. One of the things about events like this.
Cecil Bullard: You get to talk to a lot of different people in the industry, and you have companies that are trying to buy up the Ubers and the et cetera, because like Ford would love to buy Uber, and then they get to sell Fords to all the Uber drivers. And then Ford controls where all the Ubers get fixed. And so I think right now the manufacturers, the issues with manufacturers struggling so hard in their service centers mm-hmm.
Cecil Bullard: Is driving them to think of other ways to control market. And one of the ways they're gonna try to control market is to buy market share. So, and then you have millennials and what we got c gens. They don't necessarily wanna own a car. Yep. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: so I think that you're gonna see like a lease a car for, you know, a self-driving car for 400 bucks a month and it'll show up when you need it, and there's no driver and they're not gonna own the car, which means that they don't control how the car gets taken care of, who takes care of it, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: I think there's gonna be some real challenges there for whoever may buy that and make that happen. But I think there's real opportunities, but I think that individual shops, I also see this separation of specialists. Yeah. And the mechanic. Yeah. Okay. Mechanical specialists, technology specialists, I, I mean, we still have mechanics, we still have shops.
Cecil Bullard: They're not educating, they're not training. I can get by just enough. I think we still have people that are pirating software instead of investing and training and looking at what's gonna come up in the next five or 10 years that I need to know. And I think we're gonna see a lot of shops close. You also have to think about BlackRock and the other two major private equity companies that own 87% of everything today except for automotive.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, they're coming in. Yeah. Like it or not. Yeah. And I think that. With the advent in technology with the changes, if you can't afford to pay your people well. And run a really profitable business that you're gonna get out of the business. You're gonna sell, you're gonna, you're gonna have to, there's no way.
Cecil Bullard: To your 
Carm Capriotto: point, wall Street Fortune, I've seen some articles come out in the absolute observation 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Of what's going on in the service side of the business. Thank you for that. Any secrets to time suck? We just seem to sometimes mindlessly not pay attention. 
Cecil Bullard: It's funny 'cause Kent was just diagnosed with a DHD.
Cecil Bullard: I've had it my entire life. You have these strategies that you do. I have lists of things, and Kent has his lists and et cetera. What happens if you're not planning your time? Then all of a sudden it's the end of the day, you didn't get done what you wanted to get done. So for me, one of my secrets is I keep a pad, I write things down, I make adjustments to that.
Cecil Bullard: There are things that fall off the list. And I think when you're teaching like the high energy A D, HD or D type personality, people that we have, 
Carm Capriotto: yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: You know, we want to be in charge. We want to take charge. We want to do everything, but you just can't. If you put the list together and then you go through the list and you say, should I be doing this right?
Cecil Bullard: Am I the only one that can do this in my company? And if I am, then I better find somebody else or teach somebody else. Is this something I really want to do? Is this something I hate to do? Is this something I should be passing on to someone else? When you start to create that and you create a list, and then you're going through and saying, okay, I'm gonna delegate those jobs, and then I have to accept what happens.
Cecil Bullard: You know you got a manager, but you need to become a coach for the manager. You can't just let the manager run loose. I would say it's the same thing when you're bringing someone along, and I think a lot of us in our business don't even bring 'em along. It's like, I'll just go do that. It's simpler or, and then all of a sudden our days are gone.
Cecil Bullard: It's the whole week's gone and I didn't get done what I needed to get done 
Carm Capriotto: this week. Be more accountable to the things that you know you want to do. I'm a list guy just like you, and sometimes they move up, they move down, they move. Sometimes I 
Cecil Bullard: pull 'em 
Carm Capriotto: off and sometimes I actually get a chance to check it.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If nobody noticed that I haven't done it in like three weeks, it disappears. I guess It wasn't important. Right. Yeah. What does stop stopping mean to you? That's interesting. I think that's Marie's comment, but to me it means we hold ourselves up because we limit ourselves. Okay. And so I don't wanna limit my company.
Cecil Bullard: I don't wanna limit my people. I don't wanna limit myself. And so there are things you should stop if you're consciously determining your life and your business, making those conscious decisions, which means you have to stop in the morning every day and go, I need 15 minutes to go through my list. And that's a valid stop.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. But if you're allowing everything else to get in your way, then why are you, if, if that thing that's on your list is that important? Why are you stopping yourself? Yeah. What's holding you back? Those are the words I was just thinking of. Right. I think you really need to say, okay, why am I not doing this?
Cecil Bullard: Or what's holding me back? We as humans, we do this weird thing where. If we don't understand something or if it's really tough for us, we have, we don't have a lot of experience in it. We distract ourselves and to me stop stopping is stop distracting yourself. Mm-hmm. Right. Perfect. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: It's the right answer.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Are you gonna get it done or not? Because if you're, ultimately, if that's not something that is of that kind of value to you, then get it off your lips. Yeah. I think it's, or give it to somebody else. I think 
Carm Capriotto: it's a great two words for people to realize I'm not getting anything done. Yeah. Well, stop, stop.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, basically stop stopping. You have a decision to make. Okay. I, I should have, oh, God should have done that last week. So stop stopping. 
Cecil Bullard: And I think you have to, I don't know. You know you, your beautiful daughter works for you. Yeah. Works with you. My son works with me. Yep. And I'm the d personality. I'm the guy that's like the driver who thinks I should do it.
Cecil Bullard: I can do it faster, I can do it better, blah, blah, blah. Is Ken 
Carm Capriotto: d? Is Ken d 
Cecil Bullard: He says he is okay. But he's got really strong C in him. He does. Oh yeah. Yeah. So if he is a dc, which is probably his personality around me, he's more C than D around some of the rest of the staff. He's probably more D than C. Okay. So, but I'm the guy that's like, oh my God, I have to do this.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause I'm the one that's gonna do it the best I know the most. I. You can't do that. Mm-hmm. Because if you do that, they're not gonna have any opportunity. Yeah. The rest of the staff isn't gonna have opportunity. To your 
Carm Capriotto: point, we're talking about the DISC profile. Yeah. Dominance, influence, interpersonal.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Interpersonal S being kind of a steady as she goes, the customer service person. And the C being conformist. Meaning the accountant style in all of us. Yeah. It's a has to go before. B controller. Yeah, exactly right. Oh, one day, lemme tell you this story about me losing my your mind on a high C. Yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. I'm an id. Okay. D and I are above the line. Yeah. And everything else is below. I won't go into that. But my point was, if we knew what our people's communication style was, our disc, we end up ultimately having the right kind of conversation with them. 'cause if you're a D, gonna talk to an I. They're probably not gonna listen unless you have their conversation with them, not yours.
Cecil Bullard: If you're a salesperson and you have a lot of experience being a salesperson, you know that you have to make adjustments for the people you're talking to. Yeah. And if you're a good manager, it's the same thing. If I'm gonna be Cecil the D and have a good conversation, especially when Kent is like in his total C roll, there's no way we're even gonna talk.
Cecil Bullard: We're just gonna get mad at each other. We're both gonna think, well, you're not listening to me. And then we end up either yelling at each other or not talking to each other for three days. Yeah. Which none of that solves the problem. Yeah. And I think there's, who's the adult in the situation? I know it is probably the wrong way to put it, but if you're the adult in the situation and you say, okay, I'm gonna get more out of this person or out of this communication if I make the adjustment to the other person's style.
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Carm Capriotto: After all, it's your shop, so it's your choice. Visit us on the web at Napa Trax. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. I've got thermal management shops, I've got EV shops. I've got. A s calibration shop. I would tell you, 
Cecil Bullard: I think first of all, ADOS is gonna change with technology. It's gonna become simpler for the average shop to do the calibration.
Cecil Bullard: And so these guys that really invested a lot of money in the big facility and all that, I think that's gonna change electric vehicles. It's not the technology of the future. It's gonna be a hybrid of some sort. It might be gas electric, or it might be gas hydrogen, or mm-hmm. Diesel hydrogen or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We're gonna have multiple options because that's really the future of it all. You know, specialty shops. I thought we would be almost all specialty shops by now. I mean, you know, 20 years ago I was like, oh, we're gonna have the BMW shops because the equipment's getting so expensive and. You gotta have specialty training for all of that.
Cecil Bullard: And we certainly, I think, have more of it now, but I don't know that the generalist is ever gonna go away because it solves a problem for a certain part of the population because, and why I 
Carm Capriotto: semi agree with you. That in my house, I've got one of each. Yeah. And why do I wanna have four or three different relationships out there?
Cecil Bullard: No, and it's harder. It's like, okay, if I trust Cecil or if I trust Karm, that's where I want to go. That's where I wanna go. Right? You're my place. And so, Hey Km, I know you work on my whatever, but can you work on my whatever? The answer is, yeah, if I can make it work, if I can make it pay, then yeah, I'm gonna do it for you.
Cecil Bullard: I don't want you going anywhere else, so you can, there's a little part of me that's like, oh, he might really like them better than me. 
Carm Capriotto: You mentioned Blackstone earlier. Private equity. Yeah. I mean the consul, I mean, you got your finger on the pulse of this. I know you do. Yeah. With Michael Smith joining your group Chief Strategy Officer, I think.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, something like that. He's become a great friend of ours and we love to hear him talk. We just sit, 
Cecil Bullard: we, we like him. Yeah. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: So just sit back in the room with Michael and you know, you'll get like a million words coming at you, you know? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Imagine it's hard for me to talk when Michael's involved it.
Cecil Bullard: Cecil Bullard. Oh, has a hard time getting in the conversation. 
Carm Capriotto: Really? 
Cecil Bullard: Oh yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: I just spoke to him before you, I did pretty good, I think. Did you? I think I held my own. You'd be proud. You'd be proud. Yeah. I can't wait to hear it. 
Cecil Bullard: I love Michael De pieces. I mean, if you get to know that guy, he is gonna heart the size of China.
Cecil Bullard: Oh my God. And he cares. And he is so freaking smart. I mean, he's wicked smart. Yeah, that's what they say, right? Yeah. Wicked. He's wicked. Wicked smart. Wicked s smart wicked 
Carm Capriotto: smock. 
Cecil Bullard: And, but I keep telling him. Man, you gotta slow down a little for the rest of us, you know, just for the 
Carm Capriotto: rest of us. Oh my God. Just a little.
Carm Capriotto: I will feel comfortable saying that to him. Yeah. Next 
Carm Capriotto: time. Just 
Carm Capriotto: because I want to hear everything he has to say. Yeah. But a lot of times, like what I do for a living, it's a two-way, and it has to be right. It's gotta be a two-way, this whole Blackstone thing, consolidation, and you're close to it. There's so much talk about it.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, think out five years for me and tell me where you think it's headed 
Cecil Bullard: eventually, especially with like self-driving cars, if companies like Ford end up being the provider for the self-driving cars and the whatever Uber's gonna be in the future and they steal that car 
Carm Capriotto: park, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah. We're gonna have a hurt.
Cecil Bullard: A little bit of a hurt. And, and by the way, if private equity wants to come into our industry, we're not gonna keep 'em out. Right. Okay. Whether we like it or not. You know, if you and I go back, say when we met eight years ago. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: How many private equity companies did you know of? I knew of zero industry. I knew of maybe two or three.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Currently I can tell you that there are probably nine or 10. In the industry right now actively pursuing, hovering, and there's five or six more coming in. Yeah, because I get stuff every day. You're Cecil Bullard, you're the institute. We want you on our board. We're a private equity company. We're gonna come in and consolidate and you know, pay you a bunch of money, blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: And so I think we're gonna see a consolidation of the industry, whether you like it or not, which there's really good news about that and bad news. So I think 
Carm Capriotto: one of the words is opportunity. Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Because right now the average shop goes at about 2.8 x ebitda. So if I made a hundred thousand, I can sell for 280,000 plus assets.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. So, but my assets are only worth 20 cents on the dollar. So my old equipment. 20 cents on the dollar my car, 20 cents on the dollar, et cetera. Yeah. And my computers and other stuff here, they're not worth anything and the tools are really not worth anything. Maybe 10 cents on the dollar. 
Carm Capriotto: Isn't that the toughest part for any shop owner to have to overcome?
Carm Capriotto: You know, wait a minute. Do you know how much my toolbox, I had a $200,000 toolbox? Yeah. And you want to pay me a thousand bucks for it? Yeah. And how about that? Five years ago I just bought that, uh, road force balancer. 
Cecil Bullard: When I finally realized I wasn't gonna work on cars anymore at all. I gave my tools to a friend who has a shop that needed the tools, because I'd rather do that than try to sell 'em because nobody wanna pay me.
Cecil Bullard: It just me. It pissed me off. Every time I talk to somebody, they call you and they're like, oh yeah, you got this. It's a, I dunno, $500 wrench set that I might pay for Snap on. And they're like, oh, I'll give you $15 for it. And it just was like, I'd rather take 'em all and dump 'em in the ocean than do that. So I, I give my toolbox away.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I give all my tools away. I mean, I have enough now. That. Like if I need a ranch or something like that, I can, I have it. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I don't worry about that at this point. The best assets that any shop owner has to sell is property with a building on it if he owns it. And so 2.8, I just testified in a court case last week.
Cecil Bullard: I got another one next week about the value of shops and 2.8 is 
Carm Capriotto: the multiple on top of the ebitda. Yeah, that's average at a lot of people average at the moment. A lot of people 
Cecil Bullard: don't know that. Okay, but go ahead. Yeah. But with private equity coming in, the value of a. Well run shop now, by the way, the multiple can be higher.
Cecil Bullard: Let's say three years ago would've been between one and four. Okay? So the best run shop in the world where the owner's not involved and there's a manager, and the business has been growing for three years, and it's net 15% plus and no bad check marks four times ebitda. Okay? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so, but average 2.8.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Well, now. With private equity coming in, some of the private equity companies have kinda learned their lesson. 'cause the first guys that came in, they went to buy crappy shops because they didn't have to pay for 'em. Right? So I could buy it at a one x, I could buy that shop for a hundred grand, or I can buy that shop for 200 grand and the owner will carry 150 of it and they got nothing, right?
Cecil Bullard: And then they bought a bunch of crap, and then it was crap. And now they've learned their lesson and they're coming in and they're saying. I don't want a crappy shop. I want a shop that runs well. Yeah. Yeah. And that is organized well, et cetera. And that's kind of what Michael is kind of doing in our company, is trying to get that, be the evangelist for that word out there.
Cecil Bullard: I love that word. But now you can get five x and I even know some guy's getting six X for a shop. That's well run because private equity wants the business. And if you've got a 20% net. In your shop and you've done that three years in a row when you're not the player and et cetera, and you're checking all the boxes.
Cecil Bullard: I could get a five or a six x for a single shop that maybe net 300 grand. Yeah. So now I have 1,000,005. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Right. 
Cecil Bullard: Instead of 700,000. Right. I, I've almost doubled what I have. Yeah. But there's another part of it too. If we go and put together a bunch of those shops. Like guys that have two and three or five and seven, and we put them into a platform mm-hmm.
Cecil Bullard: That we then present. Yeah. We can get 10, 12 x. Yeah, exactly. So the opportunity is amazing right now. And I think, hang on, I gotta say it. There's a bunch of shop owners when they hear m and a or they hear private equity, they're like, well those rotten sobs, you know they are, I'm sorry. All they care about is money.
Cecil Bullard: But they're coming in our industry. They're coming in our industry hard. And you need to be running a good shop because it will give you opportunity either way. Yeah. Whether you keep it, pass it on to family or whether you decide to sell it to private equity, and I guarantee you, what's gone on in the autobody industry.
Cecil Bullard: Oh yeah. We're 12 years behind them. Mm-hmm. And private equity is much more. Aggressive right now than they've ever been in in our industry. Right. Or they ever were in autobody, and this is gonna happen relatively fast. They'll still be mom and pop, they'll still be well-run jobs, but we're gonna be dealing with private equity in something.
Cecil Bullard: And one of the things that Private Equity's doing a little different is they're not changing the name of all the shops. Now it's still John's Automotive and they're still running it under John's Automotive, but it's no longer owned by John. It's owned by, right. The private equity company, the brand was strong.
Cecil Bullard: The people were great. The owner could walk away and it'll run. Yeah, it gives us opportunities financially, if you're getting in your. You know, late fifties, sixties, and you're like, I want out. Holy smokes. What a better opportunity than being able to double the what I get out 
Carm Capriotto: of the shop. Yeah. Your words are so strong.
Carm Capriotto: And one of my favorite bits of advice that I ever got in my life was the words pay attention. Yeah. And is so if an owner is not paying attention to their net operating income, I'm sorry, all of that means you've gotta do all 30 of those things way up in the umbrella. Right. If this company can run with your minimalist involvement, and it's scary to think, but some of the people that I know received and are still working and are still growing.
Carm Capriotto: In a multiple for their business. And then I was lucky enough to be with you guys in a particular meeting a few years ago and see how you can maybe even get a second payday out of this stuff. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we got guys that are coming up to their second payday. Uh, wow. Okay. 
Carm Capriotto: So what does that all that mean? Well run a great shop, hook up with Michael and figure it out.
Cecil Bullard: We have too many people in our industry and God bless 'em, who don't really understand your business is an engine. Okay. 
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. 
Cecil Bullard: And if the engine gets air and fuel at the right amount, at the right time, under the right compression and spark at the right time, it runs like a bat outta hell. If any of those things are off, 
Carm Capriotto: yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: then it doesn't give you the performance that you want.
Cecil Bullard: And we need every shop owner to understand how the engine works and what, how much air and how much fuel and all of that. Because when you figure that out. Not only does it run better and it manages better, and you can take care of yourself and your family better. But you can also take care of the families and the people that work for you and create a lot more opportunity, not just for yourself, 
Carm Capriotto: but for them.
Carm Capriotto: Also. Thanks for the motivation on this. We've done so many episodes. We've discussed ad nauseum on this, and I like to often bring this up because there's always a, a new opportunity, a new open mind is set that comes from some stubborn, stuck people. And a lot of new people that constantly are listening to the show.
Carm Capriotto: So where am I going one day, honey? I'm gonna sell this for a million dollars one day. And then they find out that it's not possible because they didn't run like a well-oiled engine. So 
Cecil Bullard: this guy that you and I can, if I said the name, you would know exactly who it is. And currently he owns either five or six shops.
Cecil Bullard: He's been growing, but I knew him. 15 years ago when he was a tech coming into a shop that was gonna be sold. Okay? And they made a seven year deal, him and the owner and seven years go by. The owner wants to sell the shop, but what he needs is way more than the shop is worth. Okay? And they never tightened the deal down.
Cecil Bullard: They never actually wrote anything down. They never put stuff on paper. So all of a sudden this guy has put seven years into this business and now the owner is coming and saying, well, I'm not gonna sell it to you for that. I'm gonna sell it to you. It has to be this, and it's only, it has to be this because he's not okay if he doesn't get that right.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, he comes to me and he goes, what do I do? And I said, well, ah, right. First of all, neither one of 'em should have been at that point. We should have put a plan together seven years ago to make it look like and what does it need to look like so the owner can get out the way the owner needs to, and the guy can come in the way the guy comes in.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. But we ended up paying an extra a hundred grand for it. And you know, I was like, it's worth more because we know we can run it better. So give him an extra a hundred thousand dollars. It's the only way you're gonna get it. And you've already invested seven years of your life and now he has, I dunno, six shops or whatever he is doing fantastically.
Cecil Bullard: But it's that I don't want to come to the point of I gotta sell my shop. But I'm not gonna have what I need to feel comfortable in my retirement. 
Carm Capriotto: Absolutely. Okay. That's 
Cecil Bullard: the problem. You never want to be there. And we've also done other deals with other guys who, like, there's another guy that, if I mentioned his name, you, you know who it was.
Cecil Bullard: And their service advisor, service manager, I think they at the time had two locations. We put a plan, a seven year plan together where. Seven years from now, if you've grown the business to six locations or whatever, then you get 30% of it and you get to buy out the rest. And the owner's going, well, why would I give up 30%?
Cecil Bullard: Well, because it's not a small pie anymore, it's a much bigger pie. So your 70% is a larger pie. Right? And it worked out great. The plan was done. They've gone now, gone through that part of it. And don't let your life come to the point where you're at that point and you don't know what you're gonna do because you haven't figured it out.
Cecil Bullard: Ross Bernstein today. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Pick up the phone and call somebody. Duh. You see all these people that are stuck. I need this, I gotta have that. They don't know what they don't know, and they continue to walk down the aisle not having a clue. The p and l looks different. The assets are stronger. The business has grown, and to your point, my 70% is even worth more.
Cecil Bullard: I have a coach. I have mentors that people that both work with me and around me that I use all the time. Yeah. And I'm the guy that's 
Carm Capriotto: supposed to know everything. I don't. And that's why, and that's how you know it. Yeah. Hey, if you could pick up an instant skill right now, tomorrow says, God bless me with a new skill, what would it be?
Carm Capriotto: Patience that 
Cecil Bullard: came right away. Although, uh, I make a joke all the time, I have not learned patience. So if I'm at the grocery store and I'm in that line where I'm always in that line. I'm like, oh, God's trying to teach me patience and I haven't learned it. If I'm at the, I don't know if I'm checking into the hotel and it ain't going the way I want, I'm like, God's trying to teach me patience.
Cecil Bullard: I haven't learned it. And I make this joke about I need to not learn patience because if I do, then I've got everything I'm supposed to, and then God's gonna pull me from the earth. So I wanna be here while longer, so I'm not gonna learn patience yet. We all have a dark side kind of a joke. I think the slowing down a little bit.
Cecil Bullard: Trusting with management, the people around you mm-hmm. Can really change the game. I've had to do that in the institute. In order to grow the institute. I've realized that my lack of skills in certain areas will hold it back if I don't use other people and allow other people to have some freedom to do what needs to be done.
Cecil Bullard: Those early decisions, were they painful? Oh. Are you kidding me? I'm still paying for many of the early decisions. Right, okay. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Because I made them without enough information or because I was too forceful. Or was it impulse? Whatever. Impulse. Oh, I think I'm extremely impulsive. Obviously with the D personality, you're like, oh, I don't need any information.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I can do that. Let's go. I. I would tell you right now, if you ask Kent, you know, what's the worst thing about your dad? He's like, oh, there's a hill. Let's go take it. Doesn't look back and see how much ammo, how many people are following. Yeah. You know, what's the path? Kent wants to plan it out, so patience.
Carm Capriotto: If you could send a message to yourself, your younger you, just to say, 15 years ago, what would you say to the younger Cecil? I would say it's 
Cecil Bullard: gonna be fine. Wow. Okay. Just because everything that happens, like you have this thing that happens and you're, I shattered my ankle. I spent two years in a wheelchair, seven surgeries, and during that time, it was the end of my life.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. But. Because of that, I was able to go back to college, get a couple of degrees. I now have the institute. It's gonna be fine. You know, the, if it doesn't kill you, it's gonna be fine, right? If I had calmed down sooner and been a little more patient, I think that I would live a lot longer and have a much happier existence.
Cecil Bullard: Even today. Now when something happens that's like, you know, my first reaction is like, ah, I wanna kill somebody, or you know, whatever. I'm like, okay, take a couple of deep breaths and it's not the end of the world. No. We'll make it through there. Right. You had all the money in the world gold piled in rooms at the house.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. What would you buy. I would buy security for my family children. I don't need anything else. If I, I'm not rich, but I am wealthy enough at the point that if I need something, I can go buy it. Got it. Why would I want $25 million? Well, okay, that might buy security for my family and ine, but also we're finding out that.
Cecil Bullard: You know, third generation wealth destroys people. Yeah. Frankly. Yeah. So, I don't know. I don't need a boat. I don't need a motorcycle. I don't, you know, if I need a new pair of Levi's, I'll go get a new pair of Levi's. More time. But you can't do that, right? No, no. That's the one thing, right? You can't buy. You can't buy time.
Cecil Bullard: You kind of can. If you're smart, you're putting people in place and it might cost you money. No, but you're putting people in place to do the things that you don't want to do. You're a hundred percent right. Right? Yeah. So in a way, you can maybe buy time, but it's not more time than you have on the earth anyway.
Cecil Bullard: Right. I 
Carm Capriotto: have one more question. I so loved this off the charts, candid Cecil Bullard thing. Thank you for coming in here at the Institute Summit 2025. One thing that you've done, and no one knows, I always think of the bad stuff, so 
Cecil Bullard: we're not gonna talk about that. Whoa. No, there. No. Oh, dude, never. Oh. You know, we all have our warts and we don't want anybody to see 'em, and that's fine.
Cecil Bullard: I'm a pretty open book. I love my family, I love the industry. I've gotten lots of calls from people that have said, Hey, Cecils, someone needs help. Or you know, and I almost hate to say this here, 'cause then all of a sudden I'm gonna get a bunch of emails, but. I'll give up an hour for anybody in this industry that wants to talk and how can I help you and what can I, what direction can I give you?
Cecil Bullard: We tried a program a couple years ago where we brought in six or eight shops. I remember that. No pay. Yeah. Yeah. Most of those shops wouldn't even make their meetings with me. Yeah. And so we killed that because. If there was no value to it, there has to be an investment in on their part. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But I routinely, if someone calls me and they're like, oh, I really need help, I'm like, okay, well if you do these couple of things, you're gonna be in good shape.
Cecil Bullard: And I don't know. I mean, what nobody knows. I'm a pretty open book. I almost played college basketball. Oh. You know, that's, that's cool. I had a. 10 inch Afro in high school? No. Oh, I had the best Afro in. Well, wait a minute. High school. Well wait a minute. That's 
Carm Capriotto: the best piece of knowledge right there. 
Cecil Bullard: Oh, I got a picture I gotta show you.
Carm Capriotto: Would you do that? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. With the 10 inch Afro and I was, I only weighed like 165 pounds. I was six four. 
Carm Capriotto: Six four with a 10 inch afro. Yeah. That puts you at seven. What? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it was, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh my God. Cil, I must 
Cecil Bullard: see that. I also had a ponytail and a mullet at different times. So yeah, I want a ponytail.
Carm Capriotto: I think a ponytail, like with the white hair and everything. Great. I've seen guys with that. Yeah. I mean, I. I don't know. My wife wants me to grow a ponytail. I don't have the patience for it, so might happen, but I, I tried a few years ago. Yeah. Is my hair continuing to grow? Cil? It didn't get long. It just kept getting more and more bushy.
Carm Capriotto: We were gonna have an afro. Yeah, I know. I was, it was getting so bushy that when I put on a hat it would all just stream out and I. But is wasn't long enough to put any kind of tail anywhere. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. I probably had about an age eight inch ponytail at the time, and I get rid of it. All right. Long time ago when the kids were small.
Carm Capriotto: Completely different view of you. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is that you probably don't know, is that I'm not supposed to be in the automotive industry. This is never where I was supposed to be. My dad didn't want me here. I didn't wanna be here. Yeah. I ended up here and there was a point in time where I decided.
Cecil Bullard: Wherever I'm gonna be, I'm gonna try to be the best I can be. And I think everybody needs to make that decision, even if you're only gonna be there for a year. 'cause you might find that it's 44 years later and you're still there. Well, 
Carm Capriotto: well, it's good that you're here. You're changing a lot of people's lives.
Carm Capriotto: I've got so many friends that are part of your group and they have done incredible things with their business, and it really all flows down to some of the great people you've hired, the decisions that you've made. And, and watch the commitments. You have to advance this in. Watch for a couple announcements in the next two months.
Carm Capriotto: Ooh. Oh, can't wait. Excited Cecil Bullard. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having 
Cecil Bullard: me. Thanks. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast. Until next time.