The Institute’s Leading Edge Podcast

138 - What Winning Shops Know: Direct Mail Works Best with the Right Guidance

138 - What Winning Shops Know: Direct Mail Works Best with the Right Guidance
August 13, 2025 - 00:59:56
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea hosts a conversation with Cameron Ritter from Upswell Marketing and shop owner Tom Grover of All Right Automotive & Diesel, focusing on the power of postcards as a marketing tool for auto repair shops. They explore how tangible, personalized mailers create strong connections, and how targeting the right customers, like diesel owners, can dramatically improve results. Tom shares his journey from running a busy shop with no formal marketing to achieving a 47-to-1 ROI through strategic campaigns. Cameron explains the difference between saturation and database mailings, the importance of penetration reports, and tracking returns through address matching and call tracking. Both emphasize the value of consistency, combining “push” (postcards) with “pull” (digital ads), and avoiding the stop-start trap with marketing. The discussion closes with Tom’s lessons learned on refining processes first, then using postcards to grow the right customer base.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Thomas Grover, Owner of All Right Auto Repair
Cameron Ritter, UpSwell Marketing
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:55] - Postcards remain effective because they’re tangible, personal, and can be highly targeted.[00:05:12] - Tom shares his history in automotive and why he initially avoided marketing.[00:10:40] - Targeting diesel owners boosted ARO and attracted the right type of customers.[00:15:33] - Cameron explains saturation vs. database mailings and when to use each.[00:20:48] - Penetration reports reveal where high-value customers are coming from.[00:28:50] - Response to postcards can be immediate, but they often generate business months later.[00:36:22] - Lost customer campaigns can re-engage clients after 6–12 months of inactivity.[00:44:08] - Keeping postcard messaging simple avoids customer confusion and increases results.[00:53:35] - Combining postcards with digital ads creates a more complete marketing strategy.[00:59:20] - Consistency in marketing prevents the “cruise ship” slowdown effect.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Thank you everybody for joining. Glad you are here, my friends, as we have this conversation. Joining us today is Cameron from Upswell, formerly known as Lik Mail. You may know them from their postcard days, way back in the day. And Cameron is here with us representing the, uh, ever-present world, world of marketing and postcards.
Jimmy Lea: Cameron, thank you for joining us. How you doing, brother? Hey, I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, you know, the, the postcard industry is an industry that's never seen a downturn. Why is that? 
Cameron Ritter: I think in the consumer, when you're, when you're marketing to your consumers, right, you're always looking to give them good incentives to come into your shop, and so that's exactly what that does in a proactive way, and it's something that they can touch and feel.
Cameron Ritter: Right. Digital is something that they can just see, but really when you're sending a personalized direct mail piece, it's got their name on it, they it, it feels like them, right? We can really personalize those messages and tailor that to who we're marketing towards. So I think that's why it's never gonna go away 'cause it's so
Jimmy Lea: personal.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true, and postcards are awesome. I love postcards. I, I love postcards because they always get to the address that you have put on the postcard, whether or not that person lives there anymore, and I just moved recently. Right? You know that it gets there, it gets to that person, or it gets to that residence.
Jimmy Lea: Question for our audience. Have you ever had a client come into your shop with somebody else's postcard? Drop that in into the comments. Let me know if you have ever redeemed a coupon for a, a client or a client at your shop and the coupon was not addressed to 'em because the person had moved or maybe you had an old list.
Jimmy Lea: That, that's interesting. Cameron, thank you for being here, brother. I appreciate it. Absolutely. I appreciate the time. Uh, and joining us as well is Tom Grover. Tom from All right Auto Tom. How the heck are you, brother?
Tom Grover: Doing great. Great to be able to be with you today.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. How's the weather up there in Boise?
Jimmy Lea: Well, you're in Emett outside of Boise.
Tom Grover: I think yesterday it was 102. Today's only supposed to be about a hundred, so not too bad.
Cameron Ritter: When you say only a hundred, it's hot.
Tom Grover: That is hot. That is
Jimmy Lea: hot. That is hot. I, I, I just moved from St. George, Utah to Northern Utah, and I'm, I'm delighted with these mornings where I wake up and it's 65 degrees outside, and the high today is 94.
Jimmy Lea: I don't know what it is today, but the other day it was a high of 94, and I thought, wow, that's great. I'm, I just, I think I'm gonna go outside and work all day. 94 degrees is, is not that hot when you grow up in Vegas. And 115 is your August. That's true in August. Uh, there's many nights. It does not get below a hundred degrees.
Jimmy Lea: I think there's a good three week stretch in August that that happens. Well, gentlemen. What's that, Tom?
Tom Grover: It's all stay in the air conditioning.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We do that too. We do that too. It's climate controlled. 72 degrees and gorgeous. So, Tom, uh, thanks for joining. I wanna get a little bit of a history before we start about, all right, automotive, how'd you get started?
Jimmy Lea: What, what brought you into the industry? Uh, and then let's jump into some marketing questions.
Tom Grover: You know, I actually started into the industry back when I was. A teenager, I had an uncle that had an auto repair shop. Uh, he always said that he wasn't a mechanic because a mechanic made a living fixing cars and he could never make a living.
Tom Grover: So I was introduced into a shop like that, um, back in teenage years. And uh, and I went from there into a dealership setting and some other things. Tried to get out of the automotive world. I actually turned down a full ride scholarship, uh, to Weaver State in the, uh, management program because I did not want to, uh, be in the automotive program.
Tom Grover: And, uh, I actually found myself going back to it because it was something that I knew and I knew I could make money. So I opened my own shop in, uh, 1997. Just a small one person shop. Well, I had, I had another employee for a little while. Um, and I had some injuries to my body that, uh, the doctors just said, you just can't keep doing this.
Tom Grover: You either gotta grow bigger or get out.
Jimmy Lea: And,
Tom Grover: and at the time, I, I got out and I went back and I finished my, uh, education, got my bachelor's degrees in business and, uh, HR management. Uh. I went into the financial world in, uh, 2007. Um, wrong time to jump into the financial world as the markets were crashing.
Tom Grover: And, and I, yeah, oh man, a couple of years and, uh, said, I'm going back to something I know I can make money in. And, uh, had great opportunity to, um. To open up this shop, uh, in Emmett in 2012. Um, and it's, it's big enough that I can grow and not be doing it myself. I mean, the first little bit, it was me doing everything myself, but I quickly grew it and, uh, have come a long way since that day.
Tom Grover: So I've been in the industry quite a while.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, you have, and, and it sounds like a Phoenix story where you started with one that kind of died. You regrew, you rebirthed, and. Uh, after education, you had survived the hardest years in the world, in the financial industry. Oh, seven to 12. Holy cow. That's tough.
Jimmy Lea: And then you decide to jump back into automotive and, and the success you're getting from it now. I, I just love it. At what point in that rebirth, when you came back and, and it was you and somebody else, and, and you were getting things started up again in 20 12, 13, 14, at what point did you look at what you were doing and say, okay.
Jimmy Lea: We've gotta establish a marketing plan.
Tom Grover: You know, I didn't look at marketing plans at all for, not until the last year and a half or so, because oh, I was so busy. Marketing was the farthest from my, from my mind, in all honesty. Um, I was. I was very busy and couldn't keep the work, keep up with the work that I, that I had coming.
Tom Grover: Um, wow. And my biggest struggles were other areas, um, just productivity and trying to get the work out and in a timely manner and things like that. So,
Jimmy Lea: so you, you had that perfect, you had that perfect problem. It was so much word of mouth marketing. It was so successful. Your shop was so busy. Not until a couple years ago did you implement a marketing program.
Jimmy Lea: Correct. Oh my gosh. I mean, Cameron, do you hear that very often?
Cameron Ritter: No, it's, it is pretty hard out there for a lot of shops. Um, you know, a lot of shops have to market, especially in, in, you know, suburban areas, um, where there's a lot of competition. Right. So now you don't hear that too often. No. You really don't.
Cameron Ritter: That's no, the, the main, the main topics I hear are, uh, I don't have enough cars and I don't have enough techs. It's one or the other. Um, so those are the two problems. I'm, I'm always hearing year after year.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Now, when Cameron, when Tom came on with Upswell and, and turned on his postcard program, what were the results?
Jimmy Lea: What did you see from your point of view as you have a, a, a, basically a view of more than one shop, you view all the nation, what did you see happen with Tom?
Cameron Ritter: Yeah, Tom, um, his area is very unique. Um, 'cause when we send out a postcard blast, it, it is immediate return, um, from what we see on our side as far as the analytics.
Cameron Ritter: Uh, just to give you guys an idea, I can pull up in my, in my, uh, screen here, but an, uh, a typical saturation mailing for the automotive industry. Through this is our own database, right? We've been, like you said, Jimmy, we've been doing this a long time. So we've got a pretty substantial database of shops in our system.
Cameron Ritter: And so through all those shops, they're receiving about a 0.8% response rate, which is well above, uh, an average response rate that you would get in the way that if you target differently, right? Um, now Tom here went ahead and did a two and a half percent response rate on his saturation mailings. Um, so it's pretty actually incredible, um, how much more he's doing than, than what the average is.
Cameron Ritter: And a lot of it has to do with area, right? I mean, if you're talking about 0.8% response, I mean, that's a very good response rate in direct mail. Um, but really what you wanna look at is, as far as this stuff goes, is rate of return, right? So a typical rate of return, um, on a saturation mailing would be like an eight to one.
Cameron Ritter: Um, and then database mailings, they, they fluctuate, but all in. Um, and the database ones, I mean, you can get anywhere from 15 to one to a hundred to one. Um, but Tom is, Tom is sitting at like about a 47 to one through all of his postcard marketing efforts. Oh, that's awesome. So, yeah, it's
Jimmy Lea: Cameron. Let's, let's define a couple of terms here so everybody understands.
Jimmy Lea: What's, what's the difference between a database marketing and a saturation marketing?
Cameron Ritter: Right. So database marketing, that's something that we're gonna do, not monthly. Typically it is gonna be more of a, um, quarterly type of endeavor. Can you guys hear me still? Yep. Yep, yep. Oh, okay. Perfect. So yeah, that's gonna be more of like a quarterly type endeavor for us.
Cameron Ritter: Now, a lot of shops, if you've got text messaging, emailing, all that good stuff, that's all good, right? We're just talking about print here. Um, so to give you an example, we'll send out gift cards in the fall, um, getting towards like September back to school. We'll do it in Christmas time as well. Um, rebate checks in the spring.
Cameron Ritter: Holiday cards. There's a multiple, there's multiple products that you can do for. Uh, database mailing. So that's going to your database and that's gonna be either a lost customer mailer, so maybe someone that hasn't been in, in the last, uh, six months or 12 months all the way out to 24 months trying to win those people back.
Cameron Ritter: Um, or it could just be all of your database and your to your top spenders, right? So there's multiple different ways that you can do that. And then saturation mailing is something that, um, Tom has, has done a pretty good bit of. Um, it's where you're basically taking your top performing routes. So for those that don't know a carrier route, if you think of a zip code as a, a pie, a carrier route's just a slice of that pie, right?
Cameron Ritter: And so we're targeting very specific carrier routes in a zip code that fit the demographic that you're looking for, um, and the spin levels that you're looking for, right? We can see all kinds of data on this stuff. Um, and then one, one thing that we forgot to mention here is list mailing. So if you're a diesel shop or if you're a Euro shop, we can go out and find those specific makes and, uh, we can find year ranges.
Cameron Ritter: There's a lot of different stuff that we can do to bring in, uh, those specific customers, right?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. So, Tom, when, uh, Tom, when you got started with Upswell and Upswell marketing. Where did you start? What did you go after
Tom Grover: first?
Jimmy Lea: You know,
Tom Grover: our, our first area, we were, we were still busy, but, uh, the customers, we weren't getting our ideal customer.
Tom Grover: One of the things that we had noticed is our diesel customers were more our style of customer. They were willing to spend the money and, uh, do their work. So we said we wanna get a. More diesel customers in here. And so I reached out to Cameron and I says, Hey Cameron, what can I do here in, uh, getting more diesel customers?
Tom Grover: And we reached out and we looked at how many diesel truck owners there were in my area, and we sent a mailing out just to them and. So those that responded were diesel, diesel truck owners, and all of a sudden our diesel work increased and our, our customer that we wanted increased. So, you know, we were really busy with an a RO of, uh, I don't remember exactly what it was at that point, but it was like $450, uh, average repair order, you know, uh, through changes and stuff like that.
Tom Grover: I mean, now we're. Almost a thousand dollars a RO, you know, but it's, it's getting the right customer. So we were really busy, but we didn't have the right customer. And reaching out and trying to pinpoint some of those, um, of the ideal customers is what one of our focus was.
Jimmy Lea: Nice, nice. That's awesome. What, what kind of results did you expect that you would get, Tom, as you put out these postcards?
Tom Grover: You know, I, I see postcards all the time in the mail and I just throw 'em away. I think, you know, they're not really that, you know, not that big of a deal. Okay. Cameron says, try it. And I sent 'em out there and, and we did see a lot more response. You know, it's like, okay, we're, we're starting to build and, and bring people in.
Tom Grover: Um, the one thing I, I did want to keep from getting was. The guy that was coming in just for the, the cheap, uh, oil change type of a thing, you know, I, I didn't want him to be out there just, uh, looking for the, for the deal and that was it. Well, and that
Jimmy Lea: goes to your setup with your postcard. What did you do to modify the postcard?
Jimmy Lea: So it's not an oil special, this is an oil service postcard. You, you must have clearly. Demonstrated exhibited the ideas that this is a value to you as a diesel owner. What did you do? What was your message?
Tom Grover: You know, we, we got a few people, 'cause we put a, a, a special on there for an oil change, diesel oil change.
Tom Grover: But the thing we got the most was probably, uh, our added value one, which was, uh,
Cameron Ritter: uh, 15 off, 1 50, 30 off, three 50 and 90 off a thousand.
Tom Grover: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Yep. Wow.
Tom Grover: So it, it kind of helped boost that, you know, and, you know, for a diesel truck it's always over a thousand. So, you know, uh, people were coming in not just for their oil change, but for the, that additional repairs and to get, get a little discount there, but it, it got our name out.
Tom Grover: Uh, we had some of our current customers respond to us and say, I didn't realize you did diesel old. And, and so, oh, that told us, you know, that was a education issue that we were lacking. Uh, we did some changes at that point and added diesel into our name, uh, into our, into a lot of our marketing and stuff like that.
Tom Grover: So people did know that we do diesel, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. I, that's exactly where I was gonna go. What was your current client's feedback? And it sounds like they were opened up to a whole new world of, oh my gosh. I can take my diesel there too. Yeah. Yep. That, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Uh, Blake's got a question that we wanna ask and Tom Cameron, I, one of the two of you, which one wants to answer this one?
Jimmy Lea: How are you calculating that rate of return to get a 47 to one? What are you doing? So that is basically
Cameron Ritter: total revenue over total investment, right? So. Tom has invested X amount of dollars and has generated x amount of dollars in revenue that's gonna give you that, that 40, uh, seven to one. Right? So basically all that's saying is, it's just a fancy term of saying every dollar that Tom gives me, I'll give 'em 47 back.
Jimmy Lea: And so you are, you've been able to isolate this to just the postcard. So this isn't all of his marketing. This is isolation down to just the upswell marketing. That's, so this is
Cameron Ritter: what we do is, uh, what we call address matching, right? So postcards are something that are very hard to track. Um, as a lot of people know that have done postcards, not everyone's gonna bring the postcard in.
Cameron Ritter: Um, so what we do is we say, okay, um, we know that Jimmy received a postcard this month
Jimmy Lea: from,
Cameron Ritter: all right, auto repaired. We know that he came in within the last 45 to 60 days, right? So then we match that address up. And not only that, but we also, uh, have call tracking on there where we can say, oh, he called that number on the postcard, right?
Cameron Ritter: So there's ways that we track what the return is on what we can, what we're able to match up, and then also categorize them, right? So was it a new customer that came in? Um, was it a win back, someone who hadn't been in the last 12 months? Was it a loyal customer from a loyal customer campaign or what we would call a database mailing, right?
Cameron Ritter: Yeah. Or was it a upswell loyal, someone that came in initially from the postcard and has returned for a second and third visit. Right. So we're able to categorize that and what they spent on our, uh, on our dashboard to really show you kind of what the whole picture of what you're looking at. Right.
Cameron Ritter: Because it's all, marketing's all about transparency. And so we want you guys to be able to see really who's coming in and what they're spending. And calculate, you know, your cost per customer, revenue per customer, your rate of return, all this fun stuff that lets you know that your marketing's working.
Cameron Ritter: Right.
Jimmy Lea: That's nice. And, and Tom, to, to what Cameron has just said, people with the postcards, not everybody brings it in. Uh, I The question for you, Tom, but also for our listeners, ha, do you honor the postcard? Coupon promotion. Do you honor that if they don't have it in their hands and are able to give it to you?
Jimmy Lea: Or do you say, oh, you know what, that's great. Uh, when you bring the postcard in, then you can claim the promotion.
Tom Grover: We actually do honor it. Um, and basically one thing that we found is a lot of times they won't bring the postcard in. Yeah. Sometimes they won't even mention the postcard. But part of marketing is, you know, them seeing it and reminding them to do it, you know, and so it, it could have been an existing customer that we had.
Tom Grover: Um, and you know, they sat there and thought, oh, I, I've gotta get my vehicle in and get this service done. And, and then they see the postcard and they go, oh yeah, let me get, go in there and do it. And they'll go on their phone and they may have already had my number in there and call. You know, but, um, so sometimes it may have not have even been directly related to what we said on the postcard as much as it was a reminder.
Tom Grover: Um, and we kind of track that as we, um, Cameron had mentioned there was, uh, geo routes, you know, that, that we went, um,
Jimmy Lea: like neighborhoods that's getting neighborhoods, right?
Tom Grover: Yeah. Yeah. Where are our customers and. One of the things we looked at, we said, okay, on those that are, are where the mailing's going to or where our current customers are, Cameron was able to give me a map and says, okay, here's the area.
Tom Grover: And I looked at it and I said, man, I'm not even getting this new neighborhood with all these new people that are moving into town. I says, we need to do some marketing to that area. And, and so we switched and, and marketed to that area and, and another area it's like, okay, the downtown area. They're, they're lower income.
Tom Grover: They're not spending that much. But this neighborhood out through here that I'm not marketing to, they're, they're a more affluent neighborhood. I want marketing to this area. And so I, I started pinpointing these neighborhoods and said, okay, I want this neighborhood and this one, and this one and this one.
Tom Grover: And we started sending postcards to that. Um, 'cause it's really hard to, you know, send it to all. You know, every possibility in your, in your area, just cost-wise. So you can start in and you just start working through each specific area and market to those that are, that are your customer.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, I love that.
Jimmy Lea: You know, and this goes right into John's question, John has a question about how do you determine what's the best approach for those you target and for your marketing? Do you, do you, uh, feel that it should be based on your ideal customer? Uh, a preferred area. They live a targeting brand or model owner, a gas versus diesel.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, John, that's a phenomenal question and yeah. You know, Tom, you, you talk about going to the neighborhoods. Have you ever gone to Cameron and said, Hey, I, I, well, no, you did mention it. You went and said, Hey, I want more diesel customers. So you guys targeted the diesel with cars and trucks, but mostly trucks.
Cameron Ritter: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That, that is a good question. Um, we, I, so really it's a conversation if, if you get started doing direct mail, whether it's with Upswell or whoever you choose to use, it needs to be a conversation between you and that consultant, right? Because we only know what you guys tell us. Um, so if you're, if you're a diesel shop, I'll probably know it 'cause it's in your name.
Cameron Ritter: Um, but I'll still probably ask the question, well, do you want to target diesels? Right? Um, but if you're an auto shop, they just hired a diesel tech. It. Okay. Maybe you want to go after some diesel. So you, if you let me know, then I know that what we can go after and then we'll do a, a, a full evaluation of your shop and really see, you know, how many cars you need, um, to fill up that text time.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So we do a full evaluation of all of that stuff and, and really, uh, all, a lot of it is, you know, on, on the, on the part where you said a preferred area they live, most of your customers are gonna come from right around your shop. And you'll see that, um, if we pull what we call a penetration report, I've got one here.
Cameron Ritter: I don't know. Jimmy, are we able to share screen or
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: At the bottom, click on the, uh, present. Okay. Plus you can share screen. Let's see here.
Cameron Ritter: We will do
Cameron Ritter: this one here. Can you guys see that? Not yet. It's coming up. It's thinking. There it goes. Perfect. So this is Tom's penetration report. And so this is something that we use to identify, uh, where your best customers are, where your best carrier routes are, right? So we're able to see, like, for example, Tom crushes it.
Cameron Ritter: Um, he's got, if we take this first line, for example, here's the zip code carrier out. Um. You know the residential counts here. This is single multifamily, but this is his customer count, right? So he's got 81 customers coming from this single carrier route. So he's, he's dominating, um, penetration percentage.
Cameron Ritter: This, all this is, is market share, right? He's got 11.82% market share of this carrier route. Yeah. Um, we can also see what the average customer spends. So when you're talking about who do we know to target. Well, it's gonna be the routes where you're already having the most success and who is spending money with you, right?
Cameron Ritter: Like Tom said, there's some areas, um, let's find one. Like for here, for example, uh, penetration is not bad here. I mean, you're still getting 5% penetration, but if I had to choose between that route and let's say this route, I'm choosing this one all day, right? They're spending $2,600 and he is already got 53 people coming from there.
Cameron Ritter: Right. Um, so we know that that route is gonna bring new customers once you introduce postcards into it. Um, and then you can see different things like median household income, median home value, net worth. You can see a lot of different stuff here, right? So when you're talking about how do we know who to target on a saturation level, this is it.
Cameron Ritter: And then on like a, uh, on a list mailing level. So that's gonna be your diesels and euros. Um, that is. Really what we're doing is a couple of things. We can pull a radius and find diesels and euros that way, um, which is probably the most common way. Or we can still take your data, run a very similar report to this, but on a zip code level and figure out what your top penetrated zip codes are, and then target those zip codes.
Cameron Ritter: So there's a couple different ways that we can do this. I love
Jimmy Lea: it. And, and Tom, question for you, when you are setting up a, a postcard campaign or you're, you're developing this idea, you're going after a neighborhood, you're going after a vehicle make and model or diesel or gas, how quickly do you see a response from postcards when you send them out?
Tom Grover: You know, sometimes within a week I start seeing them coming in. Um, I mean, I've had some, the, the same day they get the postcard, they pick it up and they make a. Call and set an appointment. So, you know, it's, it's normally fairly soon is when we start to see it. Yeah. But as far as how long does it last?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Tom Grover: We've had people bring 'em in six months later and says, you know, I've had this thing sit in here, will you still honor it? And it's like, well, yeah, I'll still honor it, you know, but that's just telling me, you know what, they saw some value and they stuck it on their refrigerator or on their counter, and they, they kept it there until they needed it.
Tom Grover: And so, yeah. You know, sometimes it is hard to tell what the impact of that mailer is. Um, because they may have sat on it for a long time. We done That's true. Two other mailings since, since the time that, you know, some of these have come in and, and they bring it out. Can I still honor this one? It's like, sure.
Tom Grover: You know, so.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And that's great 'cause it gives you an opportunity. You can either honor it or not. It's your choice. Do you put expiration dates on all of your postcards, Tom?
Tom Grover: Not, not all of 'em, but some of them.
Cameron Ritter: Yeah. A lot of times, uh, we do like limited time only. Yeah. And that, that kind of language leaves it up to the owner to say, you know, no, we're not gonna honor it or we are gonna honor it.
Cameron Ritter: But
Jimmy Lea: yeah. The
Cameron Ritter: thing with expiration dates, now you got me on that, Jimmy. Um, we like to think of expiration dates is that's only hurting you and it's only hurting the customer because once the expiration date hits, the customer can't use that coupon anymore. And that's one less person that's gonna come into your shop.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So you, you want as many at bats as you can if you need car count. Um, and so that's what we're trying to do.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Tom, have you ever, uh, had a situation where you reactivated a client that was lost because of postcards?
Tom Grover: You know, we, we've had a few, uh, I haven't tracked that very much, but, but we have had a few that, you know, it's been a, a while since they've been in and they, they come in.
Tom Grover: So,
Jimmy Lea: yeah. Uh, Cameron, what do you see in the industry as a lost customer campaign? What, at what point do you consider a client lost? That's a great question. Um,
Cameron Ritter: and it depends on the shop. It, a lot of times we, we take a look at what you're currently doing to retain your customers, right? So like text messaging, uh, emailing, reminders, all that sort of stuff.
Cameron Ritter: And then we say, okay, when does that cut off? Yeah. Um, for a lot of shops, that's six months, right? Some shops it's 12 months. So what we do is we say, okay, at the end of whatever campaign that you have going on, now, we'll start there. So if, if they haven't been, you know, if there's six months from visiting your shop and then you stop putting touch points on 'em, okay, well, we can put touch points on 'em with a postcard, right?
Cameron Ritter: And send that out to them. You know, like I said, roughly quarterly. Um, some shops do it monthly. Um, to, to their lost customer campaigns. Right. 'cause you're just trying to get as many as you can back. Um, right. So that, that's a general answer. But for a lost customer, for us in our system is technically 12 months.
Cameron Ritter: Um, oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So that's what we count as what, what I refer to earlier as a win back, but a lost customer could be up to the shop owner, um, on what they,
Jimmy Lea: they define as a lost customer. Oh, and that's so true, Cameron. I was talking to Kathleen Callahan down in Florida, and she's got a lot of snowbirds that are back and forth.
Jimmy Lea: So for her it's 18 months to 24 months. Yeah. That it, that it actually triggers a lost customer campaign for her versus every other shop. It, it is probably somewhere in that six month, nine month, 12 month on the outside. Right in that realm. That you need to make sure that customer's coming back into your shop.
Jimmy Lea: Absolutely. Because if they're not, they, hopefully they're going somewhere else and taking care of the vehicle. Yeah. Hopefully they're into your shop and, and making sure that you got one set of eyes and one set of professionals taking care of your vehicle.
Cameron Ritter: Absolutely. No, for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Um, Tom, to you, Anna, I know that you most recently had the mastermind group come together to your shop to give you a lot of feedback on your shop from.
Jimmy Lea: The street signs to the parking lot, the lobby, the front counter, the, the, the shop, the receiving parts area, the parking lot, marketing, bookkeeping, all the things. What, what value do you see in your mastermind group, you know,
Tom Grover: as a, as that, uh, being in a group? I don't know if it's as much having them come to my shop as much as it is me going to other shops.
Tom Grover: And, you know, as I went to other shops and, and I said, man, I've got to improve this and this and this. And when I'd come home, I had, I had pages of stuff I, I needed to improve in my own shop. And so I would come home and I would make all these improvements. So the nice thing was, is when they visited my shop, I had already hit a lot of these areas and they really focused on.
Tom Grover: Some areas of, um, kind of a little deeper aspects, you know, on how to make a little bit more productive and, and some processes to refine and some things like that. Um, there were a few, few little issues that, uh, you know, came up as far as, um, signage and things like that. It were, there were things that I was already working on.
Tom Grover: Sure, sure. I actually had sign. Coming. They were already ordered when they came, but they weren't up yet. So, um, but it was based off of feedback from other shop owners, from other shops and things like that. So, you know, just to, to see what other guys are doing and seeing what expectations, see what's working out there.
Tom Grover: I mean, it is worth a lot. Um, and then to have 'em come into my shop and say, you know, ask us, is it always this clean? Well, yeah. It and asking the guys, is it always this way? Is always, it is like, yeah, it generally is. Or, or, no, it's not, you know, um, but just kind of backs us up a little bit as Yeah, you're, you're doing good things, you know, you're on the right path, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I think that's awesome. I, my father says that everyone's an example. Some people are a good example of what not to do and some are a good example of what to do. And it sounds like you have learned from other people's scenarios, from their situations, brought it back to your own shop, implemented it so that you were even further down the road when they came to look at your shop.
Jimmy Lea: It was, it was more of a surprise. Oh my gosh, this is so good. Because you did the work, because you put in the time because you visited other shops and said, oh my gosh, I need to fix this at my place as well, Tom, that's phenomenal. Speaking of that, did you run your marketing ideas through your mastermind group?
Tom Grover: Um, I, I've kind of talked about a few of 'em, but, um, not as much as I, as I should have, I guess. Um. Once I started this group, I mean, I only started the group a year and a little over a year and a half ago.
Jimmy Lea: Okay.
Tom Grover: And I tell you, I struggled. I, I always had constant growth, you know, from 2012 to where I'm today, I, I kind of had consistent growth.
Tom Grover: You know, I'd grow a little bit each year, right? I was always growing, I was always behind schedule, you know, had plenty of work. But my biggest focus was getting the work done. How do I get this work done? And, and I tried a couple of different groups out there that, you know, uh, coaching groups and they would come in and they would say, okay, your big focus, you need to be doing marketing.
Tom Grover: And I'd look at 'em, I'd say, why do I need to be spending more on marketing when I can't get the work done that's here? And they says, well, just trust me.
Jimmy Lea: You know,
Tom Grover: do this and this and, and let's start focusing on your marketing. And I, I, I just, you know, I didn't agree with what they wanted to do in the direction.
Tom Grover: And so I'd kind of given up a little bit on, on the coaching groups. I thought, ah, they're just after my money and wanting to do marketing. And, um, then I went to CIMA and, uh, Cecil was, was doing a workshop there. Uh, yeah, I don't remember the title of it, but basically it covered communication in your shop and, uh oh, it's the
Jimmy Lea: front to back conversations.
Tom Grover: Yeah. And I sat down in that meeting and I go, whoa, he just hit exactly what I need to do. I need to improve my communication in my shop. I need to make this, this will make things happen. And I, and I came home and I started putting stuff to work, and I started into doing some coaching. And, uh, all of a sudden I went from, uh, so that was in November?
Jimmy Lea: Yes.
Tom Grover: And that year I finished strong. So that year I finished at 1.2 million.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Tom Grover: I finished the next year, almost 1.7 million after joining the coaching group. Oh, what did that, what did that do? But as a result, I mean, our A A RO went up and everything else, I hired more technicians, but my challenge was then, now I have to market and how do I market?
Tom Grover: And so I actually, I went to Mars last year and I, I brought one of my employees, she was also my sister, and, and she was really wanting to do the marketing and, and I sat down, went down there with her, and we kind of went through some stuff. I came back and did a few things, but it wasn't really, really clicking.
Tom Grover: Hmm. So we, I've, I've thrown some things out there with, uh, you know, as, as I've met with these other shops and see what's working and, um, and then really I'm excited here for, here in a few weeks. I'll be taking my manager down there, uh, and, and going through this marketing again and setting it together a real, we have a marketing plan, but we want to refine it.
Tom Grover: We really want to make it to where our weakness is, uh, is not getting the cars in. I want to be able to just churn, you know? And yeah. So we want to increase that volume of the shop in order to do so. Now we have to focus on marketing, but we've been able to fix a lot of the other aspects that needed to be fixed, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it, Tom. That's amazing. Uh, you, you, do, you know Tracy Holt performance place down here in, uh, Northern? Yep. Very similar story. Very similar story. The two of you, you needed shop efficiencies. You didn't need car counts, you didn't need average repair order, you needed shop efficiencies. And once you got that down, what happens naturally?
Jimmy Lea: Car count went up, average report order, app repair order went up, and now you're at the point where, oh my gosh, okay, we're efficient. Average peer order is perfect. It's where it needs to be. Alright, now we're at the point. Let's bring in more cards. Let's increase. Ah, I love it. That's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Congratulations.
Tom Grover: You know what I also have to say about our postcards? Um, so when we started our postcards, and no one else here was really doing any postcards, and I really don't have a lot of shops here to, to pattern after either. Um, but. I started sending some out and I have to just as far as kudos to Cameron here, I got one of their postcards from one of the other shops and, um, I looked at it and I had to look at it.
Tom Grover: I kid you not for a good minute to figure out what they were trying to sell because they had so much on that postcard and there was. There was just so much. I'm like, well, are they a wrecking yard? Are they towing service? Are they a repair shop? What are they, what are they marketing here? You know? And they just threw so much in there and, and I thought, that's odd.
Tom Grover: Well, my son got the same postcard and he looked at it and he is like, did you see this dad? And I says, yeah. He goes, I couldn't figure out what they're marketing. You know, and so that has been a big example to me. You know, as Cameron as, as we shoot out these different things and he makes recommendations and they try to keep it pretty simple and where our focus is.
Tom Grover: Um, so, you know, sometimes we get stuff out there. Yeah, I looked at that postcard for a long time, but I really wasn't sure what they were marketing. Um, oh wow. So, you know, sometimes it's, it's getting our name out there and it, you know, in the right way.
Jimmy Lea: Right. Hey, it is that kiss method. Keep it simple, Simon.
Jimmy Lea: You've gotta keep it simple. Have a very focused message and know exactly what you're promoting. That's what you want in your shop, so you, that's what you ask for. Oh, I, I love it. I think that's great. I think that's great. What else? Uh, let's see. We've gone it through. Oh, John's got a question here. Let's, let's give John some some love here when it comes to marketing.
Jimmy Lea: Who should make the actual postcard that is sent out? If I make a postcard, can I just send it out to my customers? Anyways? What are the benefits of using someone like Upswell for my marketing? You know, I think that's a great question, Cameron. 'cause yeah, yeah. J John, I, I could go to Kinko's or copy place and, and print all the postcards I'd want.
Jimmy Lea: And you can, and you can put a stamp on every single one of 'em, or Cameron,
Cameron Ritter: or you could use someone like Upswell, right? So obviously your time's valuable and your time is money. Um, and so not only that, right? It's, it's actually a lot of times cheaper to use a company like us because we get print discounts, postage discounts, um, we also, you're not designing it.
Cameron Ritter: Our, we have an in-house design team that is actually designing that for us. Um. It's, makes it a lot easier on you, number one. Number two, when you are targeting, or when you're sending these postcards out yourself, you have no, no backend analytics or tracking, right? Um, so you can't see, you know, like I was talking about earlier with the address match backs, um, it's, it's hard for you to see all of that data on the backend, on what your actual return on your investment is.
Cameron Ritter: Um, and then number three. Targeting is such a big deal. Um, with, with postcards it's much harder for you to do when you go to USPS and you do EDDM, all these things. It's, um, you, you can see the map and you kind of know your area, but there's some areas maybe you don't know where you're getting customers from.
Cameron Ritter: And so that's what we are able to pull that penetration report that I was showing earlier. And really find out, okay, you've got eight people coming from here, but they're only spending 500 bucks, uh, on average in the last 12 months. But you've got, you know, 20 customers coming from here and they're spending 2000 with you on average in the last 12 months.
Cameron Ritter: So it's very, we can very fine tune, target your ideal customers, which is much harder for you guys to do on your own. Um, and so that, that's really three reasons. I, I would say you would want to use someone like Upswell. Um, and like I said, it, as long as you're doing postcards, uh, with somebody and you're doing it the right way, you've gotta have three things, right?
Cameron Ritter: The right, uh, the right people at the right time with the right messaging, right? All those three things have to combine. And we've, and we've been doing, I'll keep saying it, we've been doing it a long time and we've started in the auto repair industry that, you know, Greg Sands, our founder, uh, owned auto shops.
Cameron Ritter: So all of this stuff is from his brain and, and knowing how to do it, um. So we just have it down to a science, right? And we, we have different plans and, and programs that we do, and no contracts. And I mean, a lot, there's a lot of reasons I, I guess I should say on why you should use someone like Upswell.
Cameron Ritter: Um, it makes your life a lot easier and you're gonna, you're gonna get better return if you use, uh, so, so like, if you think of it as a cost savings thing, like, oh, I'll save myself some dollars to. Design it myself and, and do it this way myself. It's really gonna cost you money on the back end because of, you know, our ability to target and track this stuff for you.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. It's stepping over dollars to pick up dimes. I, I wouldn't advise it. Absolutely. Yeah.
Tom Grover: And I'll tell you what I, I do, I mean, Cameron will send me out a a what? A, a print.
Cameron Ritter: Postcard, proof, proof,
Tom Grover: postcard proof. And I look at it and go, that is not at all what I want. And I say, I want this and this and this.
Tom Grover: I want something like this and this and this. And they send it back to me and I go, oh, that's better, but this here, it's not what I want. Send it back. And, and they change. And you know, sometimes
Jimmy Lea: it's
Tom Grover: throwing things out and seeing what works. Um,
Jimmy Lea: yeah,
Tom Grover: we recently, the last two mailings. Which I haven't even reported back to Cameron as to how well this worked, but, um, we added, we have a, a virtual golf place here in town that started up and I thought, you know what?
Tom Grover: Maybe that's our target market. Let's get, let's, let's focus on some golfers, you know, and, and see if we can kind of pick up some of that. And so, uh, up in the top corner it was, if you pick up the thing, first thing that pops into your eye is, is the virtual golf. And, uh. It said, get round of golf on us. And we, we launched this out actually last, was it December, January?
Tom Grover: Ja. It was a winter month, so, you know, yeah. Were closed and, um, we, we sent it out and interesting enough, we did not get, we only had one customer come in and request the code to go get a free round of golf, but. My friend who owns the golf place, who is actually a financial advisor, so he works with my type of clients, um, reported back and said, man, our memberships jumped through the roof this month.
Tom Grover: It was all you, so here it is. We, we sent out, we didn't get people in the door specific to that golf. They didn't want the golf code. We got a lot of people coming back with, with the postcard itself. But, so we didn't, we didn't actually pay for anyone's round. 'cause only one, well, only one person requested it.
Tom Grover: Um, and we gave it to 'em and, and, you know, and so we thought, well, we didn't get anything. So the next round they actually, they sent that postcard to me, um, as a proof. And I go, oh, I haven't taken that off yet. I just. You know what, I'm just gonna run in another round. And so I think that was like in April or something like that.
Tom Grover: We ran it again. And,
Jimmy Lea: and uh,
Tom Grover: same results for us on our side. We did not get anybody coming in to ask for that, that code to do their own round of virtual golf. But on their side it picked up. And so how did that affect us? One thing is they were holding onto that, that card, thinking about the golf side.
Tom Grover: Yeah, they weren't looking for the special, but it, they were bringing in the card for other services. Um, wow. But you know, so sometimes it's throwing stuff out. It's like, was that unsuccessful? Was it successful? Hey, you know what? On the golf side, their memberships went up. They loved it. And so they were happy 'cause I just marketed for 'em.
Tom Grover: You know what, they deal with my clients. They're my type of client every day. So, yeah. Is, is that a loss for me?
Jimmy Lea: I'm seeing a co-marketing opportunity here. That's what I'm seeing.
Tom Grover: Yeah. It works great for that.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. That's super awesome. Tom, what advice would you give to a shop owner that's a little bit hesitant on starting a uh, uh, postcard campaign?
Jimmy Lea: What advice would you give them?
Tom Grover: You know, Cameron told me run at least at at two consecutive mailers. And before you really make a a decision. Um, the mail campaign is not the only thing we do in marketing right now, um, because, uh, it is a, it is, you know, more expensive than doing Google or Facebook marketing, things like that.
Tom Grover: But adding that into, um, our process keeps us in the forefront of people's minds. Um, it brings stuff in, it's just another aspect. So. You know, if you're a struggling shop and just struggling on, on trying to, to get the most dollar for, for value of getting out there, you might wanna start in, in like your Google and your Facebook, because it, it's the cheaper area.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Do the digital stuff first.
Tom Grover: Yeah. When you wanna get into really targeting your ideal person and to grow that a RO and to market specific areas. Um, you know what? The direct mail is a great way to do it, and you mix that in once you have your other campaigns going. So you send the, your direct mail, and then they go to the computer and they look it up and, whoa, your ads pop up on Facebook or Google or, you know, your, your website pops up.
Tom Grover: Now all of a sudden your marketing is, is more complete, more, um. You know who, who actually was responsible for getting that customer in? Was it the ad that they saw after that? Was it the, the original piece of mail? Who cares? You know, it's just another part of your marketing.
Jimmy Lea: And, and the answer is yes, and yes and yes, and yes.
Jimmy Lea: It was all a part of the marketing program. So yes, it was the Google ads. Yes, it was the Facebook ads. Yes, it was the postcards. Yes, it was all of the marketing plan. It worked because you had a marketing plan. You put it in place and you launched it. You track it, you find out what's working and what's not.
Jimmy Lea: Then you really elevate that. I, there were pe I, I've talked to people. I'm, I know we're talking about postcards, but I'm gonna put a billboard. Comment here. I had a friend, uh, two, two different shops that had billboards. They didn't know if they were actually making money off those billboards or not put tracking onto it.
Jimmy Lea: Shazam, now they know exactly. What they're getting from the billboards and neither one of 'em have taken 'em down. They are absolutely there and they're gonna stay there because it works and they're right off the freeway. So it totally makes sense. Yeah. So, uh, Tom, if you were to go back in time, what advice would you give to yourself in starting your postcard program?
Jimmy Lea: What lessons have you learned that you wished you knew a year and a half, two years ago?
Tom Grover: I think. Probably get a marketing process down and, and stick with it. You know, one of the things we did is, is we threw out some marketing. We go, oh, now we're busy. And so we quit marketing. And then when it got slow, I called Cameron, Hey, I, I gotta send something.
Tom Grover: And well, you know, then it takes a little bit to get that going again. And, and so it's like being consistent with the marketing. Um. Uh, trying to keep, keep things in the forefront. Don't wait until it's, uh, you know, a slow day and then say, man, I wish I had more, more cars in the door. Um, but you put together a campaign and, and some of it's just to keep out there in the forefront of, of people's minds.
Tom Grover: And, um, something we're, we're playing with a little bit for, for next year. Um. Two more areas we're gonna focus and use direct mail in. One is we're gonna put together something that's associated directly with the community. So with like a, a calendar of events on there, something that they're gonna take and put on the refrigerator to remember those, those, uh, schedules.
Tom Grover: Um, and that can go out direct mail. And the other thing is we just started doing tires and so we're gonna use, uh, direct mail to, to get our name out there as far as doing tires. So there's different times. Um, but you know, don't wait until there's nobody coming in the door to, to really do it. Just kind of put together, plan on, you know, Cameron knows that right now I'm planning on the end of this year, there's gonna be a couple of, of, uh, pieces going out and so that's
Jimmy Lea: nice.
Jimmy Lea: That's, that's very cool. That's very cool. Uh, uh, Tom, I'm looking forward to seeing you here at the Mars Conference because, uh, we'll take this up to the next level here, helping you to refine your marketing program, your marketing plan. Uh, thank you for coming down here because it's gonna be a lot of fun.
Jimmy Lea: So we're gonna, we're gonna land this plane here now, and Cameron go to you first and then Tom to you, and then we'll land the plane to, uh, Cameron. What is something. What is a concept that you wished automotive shop owners understood about marketing? Like if you had a magic wand, you could wave it and everybody would understand about marketing.
Jimmy Lea: Tom could have said it better.
Cameron Ritter: Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Consistency. Um, that's why, like Tom said earlier, give me two months at least. I mean, that's, that's bare bones minimum. Just gimme that. Um, but I mean, I've got shops that have been mailing with me for four years straight. Um, and so, and they stay consistent and as it's just like your Google ads, right?
Cameron Ritter: You wouldn't just turn your Google ads off, then turn it on and off and on. It's just like your website. You wouldn't do that either, right? Postcards are the same way. All your marketing's the same way. And I guess the other part of that, um, would be to have these two different types of marketing push pull.
Cameron Ritter: Right. So push is gonna be like your direct mail. You're proactively reaching out to customers, trying to entice them to come into your shop. Pull is gonna be your Google Ads, right? You're getting customers that are in need of service right now. Like, Hey, I need brakes right now. Um, I'm gonna type in auto repair near me, or brakes near me.
Cameron Ritter: Um, have those two types of marketing in place because that's how you're gonna get the best results and stay consistent with both. Don't shut them off either. What I always suggest my customers to do if, 'cause I, I have customers call me all the time in the summer, summer months, Hey, I am slammed. I'm too busy, I can't take on another car.
Cameron Ritter: Okay, awesome. Look, let's not shut this off. Let's cut it in half or let's cut it down to a quarter. Let's, but it's like a, it is like a cruise ship, right? It's hard to get that thing going. And you get it going, it's going great. And once you stop it, it's hard to get it back going again. And so then, especially when you come into September, October, November months that are slower for a lot of shops, now we've gotta get that cruise ship back started up again.
Cameron Ritter: And that goes for all of your marketing. So stay consistent with it. Um, it will pay off and it will pay more than what you paid for it. It's an investment. It's not a cost.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's so true. So true. Thank you, Cameron. That consistency is so important, especially in marketing and when it's going well, you don't let your foot off the pedal.
Jimmy Lea: You don't let it off the gas. You should double down. That's fish when the fish are biting. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
Cameron Ritter: Get them in the shop. There's never a bad time to market fish. When the fish are biting. When they're not biting, guess what? Everyone pulls their lines outta the water. Put yours in, keep yours in.
Cameron Ritter: Keep yours in. Yeah, keep in.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, uh, uh, I'll answer Evan's question real quick and then Tom will come to you, Evan, the question that you're asking about the billboards, uh, these two shops put a call tracking phone number on the billboards, and from that they knew how many people were calling, how many of them made appointments, how many of 'em came in to the shop and had services performed on their vehicles.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, and it was a staggering number. It was shocking. Uh, both, uh. Dan and Bill were shocked. They were both surprised that it was such a high number. Um, so that's the way you can track your billboards. Evan is with a call tracking phone number and you would think, oh my gosh, call tracking number. How are they gonna see that and call me from the freeway.
Jimmy Lea: Here they are going 80 miles an hour down the freeway. I don't know. They took a picture of it, they memorized it. I, I don't know, but they called. I, I know that's what they did, and it worked and it was shocking results. So. Evan, try it out. I'd love to hear the results you get from your billboard tracking efforts.
Jimmy Lea: That would be, that would be pretty awesome. Uh, and thank you Elena for putting information out there about the Mars Conference. If you wanna see Tom and shake his hand and uh, be part of the Mars Conference, we would love for you to come check us out. We are the institute.com. Go in there under the events, the Mars event, uh, marketing for automotive repair shops.
Jimmy Lea: You can meet Tom, you can meet myself. We'd love to have you there. Uh, because it's, it's gonna be a great marketing conference, one that just really is gonna elevate your marketing business. Now, Tom, the question I have for you as we close this out is, what does the future look like for Tom and Allright Automotive and Diesel?
Tom Grover: You know, we went through some major struggles these last few months. Uh, kind of, we were getting a lot of our processes done. We grew so much. We really started to focus on culture. And we did a big shakeup and, uh, you know, it cost us a lot. But you know what, when people show up to work now, they love coming to work and they love being able to, to contribute and have their voice heard in, in the things that we do.
Tom Grover: Um, communication's better than ever. Uh, and we're actually starting on the uptick. Um. Now, I mean, it's been a, a rough few months as we've gone through some change, but you know what? We have things in place and moving forward, so, but
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Good. Congratulations. The future is bright. You know, when you're lean and mean, you're a fighting machine, it sounds like you got rid of those bad apples and now you're ready to rock and roll.
Jimmy Lea: That's right. Nice. Congratulations. That's awesome. Well join us at the Mars Conference. All of you who are here, uh, we would love to have you there. Tom, thank you for joining. Cameron, thank you for joining. It is been a, a great conversation. Anytime I get to talk about marketing, I absolutely love it and I look forward to these opportunities.
Jimmy Lea: So to both of you, thank you.
Cameron Ritter: Thanks for the time, Jimmy.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, absolutely. And, and for those of you joining us here, there's a, a 32nd commercial here at the very end. Pull out your cell phones, get ready. The QR code. Scan that QR code and you can get an appointment with my team, so we can talk to you about your business.
Jimmy Lea: We'll give you a little analysis of your shop and say, Hey, you know what? Here's one or two things that you could really do that will help move the needle for your shop, help you improve your process, procedures, help move your needle so that you can retain some more profit. That'd be great, wouldn't it?
Jimmy Lea: Uh, check us out. Also for the leadership intensive. We are coming to North Carolina in October, going to Blowing Rock North Carolina. For those of you don't know, that's Lucas Underwood's shop. He is hosting a leadership intensive at his shop and we are gonna be conducting that. It's a three day super awesome intensive leadership training.
Jimmy Lea: You definitely wanna be there for that. And those of you who have advisors that need some training, you are on the East coast. In December, we are coming to Atlanta, Georgia, Cameron, that's right down the street from you. We're coming to Atlanta, Georgia for a service advisor, three day service advisor intensive.
Jimmy Lea: We just finished the last one here in Ogden, Utah. We're ready now to do it again. We're gonna take it East Coast. So if you have a shop, you're East Coast and you have an advisor that you wanna take up from zero to hero. We can definitely help you do that in December. Look forward to seeing you there. My name is Jimmy Lee.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for the time. I look forward to seeing you again soon at a conference or maybe even at your shop. I.

137 - The Power of Accountability: You Can’t Grow Alone!

137 - The Power of Accountability: You Can’t Grow Alone!
July 21, 2025 - 00:37:26
Show Summary:
Recorded at the Institute Summit 2025, Tracy Holt and Patrece Holt Vance, a brother-sister duo from a family owned shop, share how their business transitioned into a new era of strategic growth and profitability under their leadership. They credit much of their progress to the accountability and peer support they found through the Institute’s Peer Groups. Tracy and Patrice also open up about the critical role of workplace culture and employee well-being in their success, and Tracy reflects on how a personal tragedy reshaped his "why" and fuels his drive today.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Tracy Holt and Patrece Holt Vance, Performance Place, South Jordan, UT
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction (00:00:00)Guest Introductions and Family Business Background (00:01:01)Composite Partner Program and Accountability (00:02:00)Vulnerability and Sharing Struggles (00:04:14)Common Struggles Among Shop Owners (00:05:40)Summit Speakers and Dan Clark’s Message (00:06:12)The Evolving 'Why' and Taking Action (00:07:07) Self-Doubt and Risk in Business (00:08:03)Family Dynamics and Succession (00:08:32)Balancing Work and Family Life (00:09:40)Major Life Pivot and Business Purpose (00:11:18)Lessons from Adversity and Team Building (00:13:08)CRM, Marketing, and Customer Loyalty (00:18:16)Profitability, Expansion, and Growth Mindset (00:19:20)Intuition and Sustainable Growth (00:20:39)Cost Management and Expense Control (00:22:10)Fear of Failure and Shifting Mindsets (00:24:24)Expansion, ROI, and Vision (00:26:38)Customer Relations and Word-of-Mouth (00:26:54)Opportunities, Multi-Shop Growth, and Caution (00:28:41)Conference Takeaways: Culture and Accountability (00:30:30)Continuous Improvement and Community Involvement (00:33:06)Implementing Conference Learnings (00:33:52)
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everyone. Carm Capto. Remarkable Results Radio. Good to have you here. Look at my guest panel. Okay. Maybe it's redundant, but you all know. I'm at Amelia Island at the Institute's Summit 2025, where the theme is stand out. We are the institute.com. Thank you so much to Kent and Cecil Bullard and the entire team from the Institute.
Carm Capriotto: We've had a blast here learning a lot, meeting a lot of our great friends, meeting new friends, and creating content that I know you're gonna continue to appreciate a lot of great stuff coming out of this. Thank you so much to our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold certified program.
Carm Capriotto: This program is for the best of the best who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers. Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop. For over 30 years, Napa Trax has made Selecting the right shop management system easy.
Carm Capriotto: By offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry, we'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the business. Find Napa Trax on the web at N APA tacs dot. Hey, I am with two great people that I met in Buffalo, New York. I don't know, maybe it was about maybe seven, eight months ago, right?
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, yeah. Tracy Holt from Performance Place in South Jordan, Utah, and Tracy's with his sister, Patrice Vance in the operational side of the business. All the book. You work the counter? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I do, yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Whoa, cool. It all. All right. Lemme sell me a diagnostics. No, I'm kidding. 
Patrece Holt Vance: I'll check your car in and make sure you feel comfortable leaving it with us, so yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. I am fine. A family business since 1974. I met you guys at a group meeting in Buffalo. Yeah. When you did a peer review of my friend Tom Cino. Remember that? 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Yeah. Tom is just a great guy, good friend of ours. Good. He's actually a my partner in the group process right now. 
Carm Capriotto: You mean composite partner?
Carm Capriotto: Yep. Yeah. Yes, Tom. Whoa, how cool is that? Uh, 'cause I have the word here. I wanted to talk to you and ask you about composite partners. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Tom's been our partner for the last year and we've grown so much in learning from him. And hopefully he's learned something from us too 
Carm Capriotto: along. Trust me, Tom is a sponge.
Carm Capriotto: He's a great friend. My wife's name is Anne, his wife's name is Anne. We spent some time over the holiday together. And I'm just so happy to hear that. What's composite partnering like? 
Tracy Holt: You know, when you get in, uh, a 20 group from the institute, your coach that you have, but then once you get in there, they assign you a partner that helps hold you accountable for your numbers.
Tracy Holt: And then it's also nice to have somebody else that literally at a text, an email, a phone call away saying, Hey, we've got some issues here. What do you think? It's like getting another coach. 
Carm Capriotto: Is what it does. You said the word account and the word accountability has been talked about a lot here in any of the keynote speakers that we've had.
Carm Capriotto: Do you find accountability one of the hardest things to do? 
Tracy Holt: I do. I mean, I think the accountability is really hard to do, but like. In the instance of it's, but you need it. You do. And it's hard to be accountable if you don't know what you're measuring and being accountable for. Right. And if you don't share those goals or benchmarks with somebody else to help hold you accountable, you know, in your mind they're just thoughts and hopes and dreams.
Carm Capriotto: So would you say to Tom, I know what your, I know what your goals are for this year. I know you're looking for another whole point of margin. We're getting together. We're looking at each other's numbers. We're seeing what's going on with your business. And oh, by the way, Tom, you have not reached that goal.
Carm Capriotto: I'm holding you accountable. I'd like to know, is that how it works? That's exactly 
Tracy Holt: how it works. 
Carm Capriotto: Yep. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. And then usually he can say, this is my struggles and maybe we have some insights and we come up with a game plan and you know, set some new benchmarks and goals and move forward with it. 
Carm Capriotto: Shop owners say, I can't do that.
Carm Capriotto: I can't be that vulnerable. I can't expose my weaknesses. But you guys overcame that. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah, it was really scary at first, like the composite and showing numbers and making sure things were right. Tom was pretty much like Tracy said, our coach during the beginning of it. You know, coming in new and not really knowing what we're doing and making corrections all the time on what our data was.
Patrece Holt Vance: But before we didn't know what any of those numbers were and why we needed to hit these certain goals. And that's what the institute has done for us. Is, okay, well I need to hit this margin, but why? And what does that play a part in? And why are these other margins this? So it's more of just like saying, Hey, you need to hit a number.
Patrece Holt Vance: It's, this is the reason why behind it. Tom's really good about, you know, we're having struggles. He is, it's just more of like a friendship where. Yeah, guess what? We're all not gonna have great months in business, but I have a buddy that's gonna help me through it and instead of just like losing hope, it's like, Hey, bad month.
Patrece Holt Vance: Let's move on. Let's figure out what we can do the next time. 
Carm Capriotto: I say the word struggle a lot on my podcast, and here you are very successful, long-term family business, and you mention the word struggle and Tom mentions the word struggle and you're all doing so well. And when you get that up on the table, life changes.
Carm Capriotto: It does 
Tracy Holt: be, we were sitting at dinner last night with Tom and some other friends, and it's just interesting to hear other shop's, struggles of, my service advisor did this, a technician did this, you know, whatever you want to call it. And it just all of a sudden in your mind, you're like, oh, you know what?
Tracy Holt: His business may be at a different dollar level than mine. But the struggles are the same from one to another personnel issues, you know, whatever it is. We find out that our struggles are the same struggles that everybody's having. 
Carm Capriotto: We've got some great speakers here, loved them so far, there's still one coming up.
Patrece Holt Vance: Mm-hmm. 
Carm Capriotto: Did you like Dan Clark? Oh, 
Tracy Holt: I'd love 
Carm Capriotto: Dan Clark. 
Patrece Holt Vance: That's amazing. 
Tracy Holt: He is amazing. And it's funny, I had not really. Heard of Dan until, you know, I was looking at the summit. Same here. So on the plane ride out, I'm downloading books and I downloaded his book and listened to it halfway out here on the plane and I got a chance to talk and with him a little bit and I'm like, you're absolutely amazing.
Tracy Holt: And 
Carm Capriotto: I interviewed him. Yeah, he was here. He was sitting where you were or you are? Yeah. Hot seat right now. Yeah, in the hot seat. He was fabulous. So. There's a lot of people that I've interviewed while I've been here in Orlando talking about Dan Clark. So if we've not motivated you, my listener, to search for that episode on Dan Clark, please do it.
Carm Capriotto: My big takeaway was, your why is stronger than your why not? That hit 
Tracy Holt: you hard, didn't it? It did. When he was talking about that in this business, as you become coachable and whatever. Aaron Woods, my coach, our first meeting, the first questions out of his mouth to me was, why are you doing this? There was a long pause and you have these, and I gave him some.
Tracy Holt: Answer and it didn't really mean anything. 
Carm Capriotto: He wasn't happy with it. 
Tracy Holt: No, he didn't let me off. He goes, goes, no, you gotta think about why you do this. Mm-hmm. What's gonna cause you to make these changes, you know, after some soul searching. And it's funny, I found that everybody's why for me, changes over time.
Tracy Holt: Why you do something today, may not be why you do it tomorrow. But then when Dan talked about. You know, it's one thing to find your why and why you do something, but what initiates the action is when, when the why becomes stronger than the why not. It initiates the action 
Carm Capriotto: because we think so much Patric, I'm sure this has happened to you.
Carm Capriotto: Why should I do this? Why shouldn't I do it? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. Well, self doubt's huge on that, right? Yeah. It's easier to doubt yourself than to trust yourself just to go do the things that. In any business that you're capable of, right? It's the risk that we're going to take to become these successful people. So self-doubt is a little bit, you know, that's the why not as well.
Patrece Holt Vance: So if we can come become over that, it's kind of the same concept. 
Carm Capriotto: Family businesses, trust me, tons of my listeners are family businesses. From dad to kids to kids, wondering if their kids are coming in. You know, the multi-generational things. How does the dynamic of your family work? And is dad still working in the business?
Carm Capriotto: Let's talk about that. 
Tracy Holt: No, dad, since about COVID time, he's been retired for years, but he just showed up every day at the shop. Mm-hmm. And then since COVID kind of triggered him and forced him to say, stay away, because he was having a few health issues and we said, dad, you gotta stay away. There's just, you know, we don't know what's going on in the world.
Tracy Holt: With what you're dealing with, let's just stay away. So they have a house in Southern Utah and he spent some time down there and I think it opened his eyes saying, yeah, I can be away from the shop and you know what, we're gonna turn the lights on every day and still go to work. You know? And that I think started the process of him stepping away full time and turning it over to us and saying, you know, you guys have got this.
Tracy Holt: These are all your decisions. I'm going to step away a hundred percent. Does 
Carm Capriotto: he consult with you? Do you consult with him? How's 
Tracy Holt: that work? I still talk to him every other day and you know, in the beginning I had a lot of questions. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? The good thing is now it's kind of turned back into a father and son thing to where we, he asked me about the business, but now we just talk about other stuff.
Tracy Holt: So he 
Carm Capriotto: must be so proud of you guys. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Which has been hard. He's been a business partner. I mean, this is the only job I've ever had. You know, in a family business, as everybody knows, 90% of your conversations evolve around what's going on with the business. 
Carm Capriotto: Really? You mean even at Thanksgiving? Oh, yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Huh? Yeah. Yes. Oh, my Thanksgiving. Yeah. I grew up in a family business. I know. Yeah. 
Patrece Holt Vance: That's the only holiday we spend together is Thanksgiving because we're with each other. Every day for five days a week. But yeah, we enjoy each other regardless, 
Carm Capriotto: but, so no rules at the, is there rules at the Thanksgiving dinner table that's gonna talk 
Tracy Holt: work?
Tracy Holt: It's funny, as dad stepped away, it's been easier and easier to separate that because dad was always the one that was instigating. Well, what about this? What about that at the shop? But how about you guys? We're learning to find some balance, I think. You know, I think I've been able to find a little more balance between work is work and I, it's always on my mind, but there's times when you've just gotta shut it off and put that behind you.
Carm Capriotto: It's almost like maybe an emotional sense of relief. Tracy, do I talk? Yes. Oh, she didn't even hear my question. I guess for me it's all about work because that's what it was when I grew up. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah, that's what 
Carm Capriotto: I, okay. Alright. Let's talk about your business. Was there ever a major pivot that you look back on and say, glad we did that.
Tracy Holt: That's one of the things I brought up in the conference and it got me thinking about that, you know, everybody in their life has these pivoting points that move you down a different path. Sorry, I'm gonna probably get emotional there. It's all right, man. You know, for me it was about eight years ago, my son was in a horrific car, a car accident, basically.
Tracy Holt: He was a college football player. And had just started playing football. You know, you have your kids that have these dreams and aspirations, and that was number one of his, since he was eight years old, dad, I'm gonna play college football. I'm like, okay. He gets to play one semester, basically of football and was in a horrific accident.
Tracy Holt: Basically, he was ejected from his car at about 70 miles an hour going down the freeway in an accident. Long story short, he was in a coma for three months, broken neck, broken back. Traumatic brain injury that we were told. You know, he is got a 10% chance to make it through the weekend. If he makes it through the weekend, he's going to be a vegetable.
Tracy Holt: Fast forward a year, he's in the hospital, outta the hospital. They send him home with us and he was home. He had to learn how to walk, talk, everything of that. But he's home. And now I've got a 21-year-old son that's sitting at home. You know, kind of in self-doubt and pity, trying to figure out what do I do with my life?
Tracy Holt: I said, get up. You're coming to work with me. So I drug him to work, made him come to the office and he started progress and get better and better. But over time, all of a sudden I just realized it's like, regardless, this business, I need to make it profitable and sustainable to where, for him, I've always got a place for him to work.
Tracy Holt: You know, that was kind of my why in the beginning, which sprung me in. It became stronger than my why not? I need to make this work for him. Since then, my why has changed dramatically. It's still there for him. He still works for me. But you know, that was the initial pivot point in my life where it's like, we need some coaching, we need some help.
Tracy Holt: We need to make this successful. So no matter what happens to me, you know, this will be here for him. That was the one point that I can look in my life where my life changed because of that. You gave him purpose. I did. I was talking to Dan about this yesterday and kind of sharing a little bit with him about his accident and what happened, and I said, it's one of those points in your life that absolutely, I wish this would've never happened to him, but as a family, it's been a great blessing 'cause we've learned so much about each other, about overcoming adversity.
Tracy Holt: Building a strong team at work, and there's so many life lessons that we've learned because of that. 
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Carm Capriotto: After all, it's your shop. So it's your choice. Visit us on the web at Napa Tracks. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. So Patrice on the counter, I got this quote from 2022 CNBC, said 56% of Americans don't have $1,000 in savings. Think about that when you're talking to clients. Would that change how you look at financing for them and how they come in?
Carm Capriotto: Last place they want to be is an automotive repair. Yeah. Shop. Unless it's routine maintenance. Right. And they're coming in for the right reasons. I thought about that and I thought about all the great financing plans that exist in our industry. Do you use them? 
Patrece Holt Vance: We don't. We've tried some in the past. They haven't been the greatest for us, haven't been.
Patrece Holt Vance: The people who need those that have applied don't seem to get accepted. Uhhuh. That's a huge roadblock for them. We haven't pursued anything recently, but I know there are options out there. Fortunately we're, our business is a pretty successful area of Salt Lake, so we don't see that very often. I'm not saying that it's not there, but we don't come across that very often in in our business.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. Do you use a CRM? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yes. 
Carm Capriotto: How's it working for you? Is it bringing in a new business? 
Patrece Holt Vance: Well with us, it's hard because we are such an established company, been there for 51 years. Our business is repeat customers, generations after generations. We know grandparents, parents, their kids, so for us, marketing and all of that hasn't really been a necessity until we've decided to grow.
Patrece Holt Vance: So we always ask ourselves like, why are you guys so successful? Why are you guys so busy? I don't, we don't know. We were just so fortunate. I think our dad. Growing up being that guy who was, he just took care of people back then. 
Carm Capriotto: It doesn't mean that the customers trust you. Love you. You do great work.
Carm Capriotto: There's hardly any comebacks. The five star reviews I was on your website. It's unbelievable. Wow. All the reviews you got. Yeah, I was looking for a bad one. I couldn't find them. 
Patrece Holt Vance: There's trouble in there, but 
Carm Capriotto: I'm sure there. Trust me, there have to be because we're human. Yeah. 14 bay, 10,000 square feet. How many people do you have working for you?
Patrece Holt Vance: We have 15 people. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: And here it is, this great business and it hit you guys over the head. I gotta get some direction. I don't know what, I don't know. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Well, and, and it stemmed from, you know, when we took over all the day-to-day operations. We were successful. We paid our bills every month. And you know, as I started to do a deep dive into the numbers, I'm like, we are working way too hard for what we have left over.
Tracy Holt: We're doing something wrong. We're doing enough right to survive, but we're not doing enough right to be profitable. So that's really the last, I don't know, few years has been our focus of profitability, making sure we're giving. The customer, the best experience they could have, doing what's right for the customer and putting the customer first, and then pricing ourselves accordingly.
Tracy Holt: And everything's kind of started to fall into place to where now I start to look at expansion. We're expanding the back of the shopper, adding five new bays that should be up and running any day now, which will allow us to expand more technicians, more, you know, better, more opportunity. But you had asked me that a couple years ago.
Tracy Holt: I'm like, I don't want any more bays. I can't handle the workflow we got now, the personnel we got. Now 
Carm Capriotto: you just hit on something that I really wanna talk about your intuition. Every once in a while it is there and you tamp it down and then it comes back up and it gets up a little higher in your head and you tamp it down.
Carm Capriotto: And is that not only what you've learned on how to make more money, how to hire great people. How to take care of your clients, but now all of a sudden I want to grow. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah. I mean you look at, with our staff we've got now and finally getting it to the point where I, you know, they call it the well-oiled machine that everything is doing.
Tracy Holt: Their part never is, but go ahead. Yeah. In your mind, you think that's what're striving for? There's always something broken that needs address addressing, but I think we're finally getting enough stuff right, that we can grow at a pace and sustain it and not hurt us and only make us better. 
Carm Capriotto: After 51 years to a point, you have a foundation that's not just a six inch slab.
Carm Capriotto: You guys gotta have like a four foot foundation and there's probably not a lot you could experiment and do that you can't recover from 
Tracy Holt: No. Yeah, and we're trying new things, but we now step back and say, okay, is this gonna give value to our customers? Is this gonna give value to the company? Is it going to have value to our employees?
Tracy Holt: I always say that everybody needs to win the customer. My employees and the shop as a whole needs to win, you know? And if I can check those boxes off, we'll pursue it. 
Carm Capriotto: Do you guys have a great cost management hack? You can give our listener. Boy, 
Tracy Holt: you know it's funny, we had no cost management hack at all until getting on with the institute and then starting to see your numbers broke down to what everything, every little aspect of your business costs.
Tracy Holt: We realized that after that we were high in some things and really low in other things. Marketing were really low. Because we've never had to market. So you don't really have a big budget for marketing? No, but we're making a shift in that now because we can see with the growth potential. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. The New Bays may account for you to have to reach out.
Tracy Holt: Yeah. Okay. So we're actually just signed up with Sharp Shop Marketing Pros and look forward to a. A relationship with them, Kim and Brian Walker. Yeah. They 
Carm Capriotto: have a show on our network. They're good. Great people love them. 
Tracy Holt: Yeah, so we're excited about that. They're gonna build this new website and it's, I was talking to him yesterday about.
Tracy Holt: I've got enough car count right now to expand, but I'm need to mark it up for down the road. 
Carm Capriotto: That's a very interesting, but not a great cost hack. Yeah, I mean, like I looked at uniforms, I looked at subscriptions. If you've done anything like that, 
Tracy Holt: we're always looking for if certain things are high in the business, what, you know, other options, but.
Tracy Holt: Our expenses have always been kind of in check. Just kind of the way dad taught us. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Oh, family businesses are so like that. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Whatcha you spending that money on? What's that? Who bought that to sound familiar? Oh yeah. Constantly. 
Tracy Holt: That was dad's. You know, we were instilled in that of like, watch what you spend was your, what you spend was your 
Carm Capriotto: mom in the business?
Patrece Holt Vance: She did all the books right now. And so, 
Carm Capriotto: oh my God, she probably stood there at attention with her rifle. A 
Patrece Holt Vance: hundred percent. She did. 
Carm Capriotto: And that was my grandma by the way. And then it's 
Patrece Holt Vance: the same thing. I do that to Tracy. So I've taken my mom's space and I'm ha sitting there with the rifle on the expenses. 
Carm Capriotto: So there we go.
Carm Capriotto: Girl. Yeah, I know, right? Yeah. Wow. So you gotta go through your sister to spend money. Yeah. Yeah. 
Tracy Holt: And I don't know who's scarier, my mom or my sister. So. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, you're filling the good shoes, aren't 
Patrece Holt Vance: you? I know. Like I got good ones to fill, so, 
Carm Capriotto: oh my God. All right. Are you guys afraid of anything? I 
Tracy Holt: think everybody's afraid of something.
Tracy Holt: In the back of your mind. You're always afraid of failure, whatever that means, but you know, we just can't dwell on that. Once you become profitable in this business, it seems like your mind shift always progresses into the future and growth. When you're surviving, all you're thinking about, man, I hope this doesn't blow up on me, because we could.
Tracy Holt: It all could fall apart. 
Carm Capriotto: You guys talked about struggle, you also talked about surviving, and those are two s words that really go together and I think there's a big takeaway here. All the top shops that listen to this show, they get you guys, but the struggle ones, ones that need to get climb up above, if you will, that hole that they're digging.
Carm Capriotto: Okay, you said something so powerful, I wanna talk about it. Once you start making money, you're really, I gotta make more. I gotta learn how to make it. I gotta be smarter at this because look at what the profits can do for a company. The talent you can hire, the what you can pay, the benefits you can provide, the equipment you can buy.
Carm Capriotto: And that I think is so big and it's so powerful when you start making money, life changes. It does. 
Tracy Holt: I look at the way that the businesses ran and I dad did everything. He could at the best of his ability to make it survive. And he did. But you know, I was saying we're doing some expansion in the back, new lifts, new heating lights, and I mean making basically another extension to the shop.
Tracy Holt: And the difference from today after, you know, being profitable versus five years ago, if we would've tried to do this, it would've been just do the bare minimum to get by. When we started this, it was kind of planned, but not really. But we've spent a lot of money in the last few months. But the difference is we've had the money to spend on the expansion and in the back of my mind I think about, you know what, I'm doing this for this goal.
Tracy Holt: That's in the end. And yes, it kind of sucks a little bit now because of the cost, but I haven't lost sight of the vision down the road of we're gonna double. 
Carm Capriotto: You would've never done this if there wasn't the ROI? No. You would've never done it? No. Is it almost done? Just 
Tracy Holt: yes. Wow. It actually got some pictures.
Tracy Holt: We've got a couple cars in there torn apart this week, so I'm excited to get back and obviously staff up for it and move forward. 
Carm Capriotto: Patrice, have you ever fired a customer? 
Patrece Holt Vance: No, I don't think so. Okay. I think I just deal with everybody and 
Carm Capriotto: Okay. 
Patrece Holt Vance: You know, everybody has a story. Everybody has, their things are going through and maybe something's happening in their life and their car breaks down and it's the worst thing and they can ever do.
Patrece Holt Vance: But, or any, the worst thing that could ever happen to them at that moment. But if you can make that experience a good experience for them, it can act, it will seem to help their whole situation. Our customers, like I said before, like we're super fortunate. We have a great clientele, we have a great area we live in.
Patrece Holt Vance: Families and families come in. There's a one lady that comes in, she's very strong personality. She walks in one day and is like. I have to quit telling people about you. And I'm like, why would you do that? She's like, because I can't get in anymore. Now all my friends are coming. I gotta, and I, and she has, all right, 
Carm Capriotto: we need four new bays.
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. For her, she has the biggest personality and she does podcasting and has a very big voice in the community. You know, she's this in our waiting room and she's everyone's best friend the whole time. So, you know, the word of mouth is what's so great for us with our clients because they're telling their friends about us.
Patrece Holt Vance: The whole thing about firing. Customers. We don't really do that. You 
Carm Capriotto: said something very interesting there. This, everybody has a story, and I would love to dig into that in a minute, but you just hit something. There's millions of podcasts out there and there are so many locals. Everybody wants to be a podcaster, number one.
Carm Capriotto: Number two is I love bourbon, so I'm gonna go hook up with a bar and I'm gonna go there on a Friday night and I'm gonna do a podcast and we're gonna drink bourbon, or it's flowers or it's community. If you think about the marketing side of that, get to. Befriend every podcaster in your town in South Jordan.
Carm Capriotto: Make sure they're clients and you, maybe you'll never have to market again. There you go. We may have to keep expanding. So, oh shit. What a bay. Oh, I would never want that to happen. Are you kidding me? Four more bays after these four. 
Tracy Holt: Well, it's funny at times her husband does commercial real estate, and so whenever there's a shop for sale or something that pops up in our area, ooh, I get the email and I turn to her and she's like, no, 
Carm Capriotto: delete.
Tracy Holt: Let's get ours fixed first. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Well, that's interesting that you say that. Get it fixed. It's never going to be fixed. No, and we've realized that. So how many more shops could you have had if Tracy said yes to every one of your husband's things? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I mean, he's sitting like 10 of us in front of us, so there's, who knows?
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Tracy Holt: Well I shouldn't say fixed. Let's get this one duplicatable. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh. I'm sorry. That's pretty damn powerful because you're right, because you know enough about being able to go into another place and you struggle with number two and if you don't have the processes and the systems in play mm-hmm. And you think of even wanting to go into three and I'm all the multis shop operators out there know it and they've come on my show and said confession.
Carm Capriotto: You know about, uh, oh my God, we finally figured it out after store three and a half. Yeah. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: And that's because they did it on their own. They did it with no guidance and they weren't even prepared to do two, but they did it because Camp pass up this opportunity. It just came to me. I had to say yes, the numbers were right and they thought that they could just.
Carm Capriotto: Flip a switch. No. And it just doesn't do that. 
Tracy Holt: No. And we've gotta protect our business and our brand and we will never do anything. If that time comes and it's time to do something like that, we'll pursue it. But you know, right now is, let's make the best of what we've got. 
Carm Capriotto: I have one question for each of you.
Carm Capriotto: A big takeaway from this conference so far that you're gonna go back and do something with? 
Patrece Holt Vance: I think culture's huge. We've always had a positive culture at our shop. We've had a couple. People here and there that can bring the shop down. But if we really focus on the culture ourselves, which start, or it actually starts with us, how do we come to work in the morning?
Patrece Holt Vance: How do we present ourselves to other people? That's just gonna be contagious to our guys. If I walk in the shop all mad and grumpy, and now that it's a Monday, that just sets the tone for them. So I think even just holding ourselves accountable, right? We use that word a lot this weekend too. We need to be accountable for us to start or to, it's contagious.
Patrece Holt Vance: If you have a great attitude, if you, even if you're didn't, I mean just walk into the work and just have a great attitude about things, everybody else will. You have that one guy in the corner that you're just like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with him? Right. Just lift him up. So I think culture is a lot too, about just the way that we hold ourselves.
Patrece Holt Vance: In the management part of the system, 
Carm Capriotto: my friend Shari Pheasant described culture to me this way. She says, Carmen the weather. I took that from her and it just really hit me hard. And then on podcasts, I would say, so is there a Thunder Cloud in Bay three? Yeah. Think about that. Yeah. Now, it may not be a perpetual Thunder cloud, but it could be just for today, something may have happened to that individual and it's maybe bringing down the rest.
Carm Capriotto: And you know, but I guess the goal would be sunshine every day. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. But just knowing that your team members, that they know that we have their back, that we're there to support them. We all have families, we all have other things outside of that shop. So just really understanding them as, you're not just my employee, you're a person and I do care about you.
Patrece Holt Vance: I care about your wellbeing and I care about your family. We come from the family background of the business. We have a family culture in our shop. Like our one technician, Cody, we always joke that he's my little brother. I wish I had, I would take all three of my brothers and take him instead. Our mom says that too.
Patrece Holt Vance: So just the family dynamic that we have inside our shop with our employees, it's just a natural thing for us. 'cause we, that's how we grew. 
Carm Capriotto: You know the word I just thought about, Patrice's fit. He fits, 
Patrece Holt Vance: he does. 
Carm Capriotto: He fits in the organization. He fits in the family. He fits, he knows what we do and how we do it.
Carm Capriotto: And what I took from Dr. Jesse Krieger yesterday was this whole storytelling thing. And I talked to Parker yesterday. Parker starts every meeting twice a day with his service advisors and say, tell me a story. 
Patrece Holt Vance: I like that. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, that's really good. Isn't cool. 
Tracy Holt: Big takeaway for you overall. It's kind of a general term, but we can do better.
Tracy Holt: That's kind of in the, been in the back of my mind from all the speakers and what we can learn. We can have a better culture at the shop. We can do better inspections for our customers. We can have better customer service. We can have a, you know, a better customer experience, we can be better at being involved in the community.
Tracy Holt: There's certain aspects that I think at sometimes you think, well, I do enough community support. I feel like I do enough. But you know what? We can all do better. And I think is that we force ourselves to do more. It's gonna force growth is what it'll do. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. I so wish you guys all the luck in the world and you know, the big thing about.
Carm Capriotto: Conferences, and I think we spoke about it while we're here recording. I used to go to conferences. I still do, but when I owned the business, I'd come back. They'd never car, don't go to a conference. 
Patrece Holt Vance: Yeah. Yep. 
Carm Capriotto: You know the drill, right? Yep, yep. Oh my God. He is gonna come back and we're gonna have to change.
Carm Capriotto: He's gonna upload my new stuff. And I realized that it was, again, I had to learn, I had to grow up, I had to become a better leader. And it was just wow. Gangbusters, right? Zero to 60 in, you know, 1.9 seconds. After a while, Hey, I learned this and I saw this, read this. What do you think of this? And slowly get some buy-in.
Carm Capriotto: And if it's going to work for the company, you can't push. It's gotta be pulled into. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. All right. Great advice. Wow, this was fun. Thank you for sharing this great episode. Very emotional. Thank you for sharing all that. Tracy, hold to Patrice Vance's, brother, sister at Performance Place in South Jordan, Utah.
Carm Capriotto: Thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you, karma. I've, I've enjoyed your podcast. Thank you so much.
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive until time.
 

136 - Hidden Growth Hack Top Shops Use OR Downturn-Proof: The Shop Owner’s Guide to Growing in Any Economy

136 - Hidden Growth Hack Top Shops Use OR Downturn-Proof: The Shop Owner’s Guide to Growing in Any Economy
August 6, 2025 - 00:52:27
Show Summary:
Jimmy Lea hosts a conversation with AutoBoost’s Adam Kushner and Joe Pfender, joined by Eric Henley of H Tek Tire & Auto Care in East Tennessee, exploring how auto repair shops can remain visible, relevant, and profitable no matter the economic climate. The discussion ranges from the early days of phone book ads to today’s data-driven digital strategies, with insights on Google Ads, Local Service Ads, and brand-based website content. Eric shares how targeted marketing and rebranding have fueled major growth in tire sales, how his team uses DVIs to build trust, and how tools like online scheduling and call tracking boost efficiency. The group also dives into reducing no-shows, leveraging video to tell a shop’s story, and shifting the public perception of the auto repair industry through exceptional customer experiences.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Eric Henley, Owner of H-TEK Tire & Auto Care
Adam Kushner, Owner of AutoBoost Business Actualization
Joe Pfender, Director of Growth & Client Success at AutoBoost Business Actualization
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:03:14] - Eric’s journey from a two-person shop to a seven-bay operation in rural East Tennessee.
[00:04:51] - How search engine “real estate” has replaced static, phone-book style marketing.
[00:08:53] - Rebranding with a tire focus delivers a 75% increase in tire sales.
[00:10:47] - Tracking ROI with a goal of at least 300–400% return on ad spend.
[00:12:21] - Using “Google Whisper” to signal advisors when calls are from paid ads.
[00:13:53] - Tailoring the sales process to match customer expectations for higher close rates.
[00:17:17] - Building brand-driven, locally relevant website content.
[00:21:07] - Three must-have videos: testimonials, owner story, and shop culture.
[00:23:21] - Online scheduling with reminders and warm follow-ups to cut down no-shows.
[00:36:24] - Leveraging Local Service Ads and Google Guaranteed to dominate top search placement.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O99j8Iyklbg
 
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________________________________________
Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: So thank you for joining us. Those of you who are here live and those who are joining and the recording, thank you very much. We have lots of questions to ask and lots of people to talk to about our subject today, which is everything to do with your shop and being found and being relevant in any economy no matter what's happening, whether economy is up or down or sideways or backwards.
Jimmy Lea: Whatever that might be, you have to be found. So where are people going? What are they doing? Where are they finding you? Where are they finding your shop? So in order to do this, we've invited Auto Boosto. We've got Adam and Joe joining us from Auto Boosto to talk about what they do as a marketing company with shops and their websites.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for joining us, Joe. 
Joe Pfender: Absolutely. Thanks for having us. 
Jimmy Lea: Yes, and thank you, Adam. Glad that you are here. Honored to be here. Nice, nice. Now you guys are in the same conference room you're sitting across from each other. 
Adam Kushner: Uh, we're in the office. We moved apart a little bit to avoid any echo, but just so that we had, uh, wanted to make sure everybody could see Joe's beautiful face.
Jimmy Lea: That's it. You know, it's all about the Joe Show. It really is. Uh, we were at Tools together and we did some video with Joe and, and he was just so much pent up energy. It's hard to get that boy to stand still. 
Joe Pfender: I did my best Jimmy 
Jimmy Lea: video. It's so good. It's epic. It, it belongs on every bit of YouTube and the internet.
Jimmy Lea: Yo, you did a great job. Thanks, Jimmy. Yes. You, you did. It was, it was the most energy of any video we recorded at Tools, so well done, sir. I appreciate that. Nice, nice. So waving at each other across from the conference table. Hello. Hello. Good to see you everyone. Guys. Hey, and, and joining us for our shop owner today is Eric Hensley with, uh, Eric is with High Tech H Tech.
Jimmy Lea: Are you changing to H Tech or is it High Tech? 
Eric Henley: It's, it's H Tek Tire and Autocare. Yep. 
Jimmy Lea: H Tech Tire Auto Care, Eric Hensley up in the, uh, 
Eric Henley: east Tennessee. 
Jimmy Lea: East Tennessee. I was gonna say you were up in Maine. I, but I knew 
Eric Henley: Sunny East Tennessee, right up in the corner near Bristol. 
Jimmy Lea: Nice. East Tennessee. Nice. And what's the weather like there in Tennessee right now?
Eric Henley: Uh, we're almost 80. It's, we've got a cool spell, so it's pretty nice. 
Jimmy Lea: Hey, 
Eric Henley: that's feeling good. 
Jimmy Lea: I'll tell you, I, I moved to Northern Utah, and, uh, the high yesterday was 94. It felt so good to be at that nice, cool level under a hundred. Wow. We, we live in st. We lived in St. George, Utah, and it was 104 hundred eight on a regular basis.
Jimmy Lea: So to go to 94, you can tell. Hmm, that's a 10, 10 degrees swing. Yeah, it was feeling pretty good. Feeling pretty good. 
Speaker 5: Nice. 
Jimmy Lea: So, Eric, thank you for joining. So glad that you're here with us. We can have this conversation talking about you and your shop and your business. You were recently on with us last December, talking about your shop as well.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. But for those who are joining for the first time, give us a little breakdown of, of who you are, what your shop is, what it looks like. They're in east Tennessee. 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so we're in, uh, right in the corner of the state, very rural area. Uh, been in business now 19 years. Uh, started just me and myself, um, me and my father.
Eric Henley: And, um, now we're at Seven Bays and a full staff. Uh, and, uh, we've grown tremendously through the years. So, uh. Not sure where else you want. 
Jimmy Lea: No, man, I'll tell you, that's, that's fan fascinating. 19 years in business. So I, marketing wise, you have seen a lot of changes that have come through the years. Mm-hmm.
Jimmy Lea: Because I think back 19 years ago when I started my business, it was like, okay, you have to have a full page ad in the newspaper. It's $1,500 a month. Mm-hmm. Yep. Holy crap. Yep. And, and my town had three new, uh, three phone books. 
Eric Henley: I remember the first time they pitched me, SEO was through, uh, Dex and they were pitching me $2,500 a month.
Eric Henley: Yeah. And I couldn't afford $500 a month when we started, so they were like, no, the business will come. And we're like, eh, not sure. So, uh, major difference in what we, the way we market now compared to what we did back then. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah. Made, made huge differences. Uh, mine was a, a little eighth inch. I had a one inch, uh, ad in the phone book.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. And I was still a hundred bucks a month. I had to pay for that one inch. And I had three phone books, so it was 300 bucks a anyways. Uh, yeah. You've seen a marketing change a lot where going from phone books to websites, websites just became a picture of that. Mm-hmm. Phone book. Mm-hmm. Yep. Very static.
Jimmy Lea: No dynamics to it whatsoever. But there was so much that we could do with that. Uh, Joe, Adam, what did you guys do to take it from a, a static phone book website to something more dynamic? 
Adam Kushner: Well, and I just made a comment in the chat, you know, back, I remember those days as well. Um. Uh, you know, 20 years ago when, uh, when we were looking at Yellow page ads and negotiating on space, and that was the search engine result page, right?
Adam Kushner: That's where someone opened up and you had to capture their attention by having the most real estate on the page and having, you know, a website that performs well and shows up organically is extremely important because that's one piece of that real estate. Um, and then, yeah, pay to play Google ads. Um, you know, now with Google local service ads, you're paying twice to be on the same page.
Adam Kushner: Potentially if they 
Jimmy Lea: click on it, right? 
Adam Kushner: Yeah, yeah. Or if they call you with local service ads. Um, and then it's everything else. You know, the Yellow Pages didn't really have local listing directories, and that was one other way to get on the search engine result page. Um, and we call that the real estate of the, the serp, the real estate of the search engine result page, where, you know, you can be into a thread on Reddit where people are having a conversation about the best place to take their car, and that's ranking on Google and maybe your website's not even ranking, but they click through to that Reddit conversation and they see everybody talking about how you're the best, hopefully.
Adam Kushner: And, uh, that's one more place that you get to show up. So, uh, definitely some evolution since the days of the phone book. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, for sure, for sure. Eric. And when it comes to you and your marketing and Google, and Google ads and local ads search and, and everything that's Google's doing, how much of that have you researched to learn on your own versus, Hey, you know what, I'm gonna hire a guy to help out.
Eric Henley: So we have the group process, which has been an education for that, both with you and the institute. And then, uh, Joe has been quite the teacher, uh, between he and, uh, the, uh, representative from Auto Vitals. Uh, they both together have collaborated and really taught me a lot of things about what is effective online, what to do, and we know how to fix cars.
Eric Henley: They know how to turn the knobs on the internet and make things work better for you. And they're very interactive with you. 
Jimmy Lea: And you said auto vitals? Yes. Did you mean auto boosts? I'm sorry. You've been working with both? Well, yes. With both. Yes. So, oh, that's phenomenal. So what, what did, what are some of those things that you have learned that you can do as a shop owner versus he?
Jimmy Lea: These are the things I'm gonna hire auto boost and auto vitals to do for me. 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so the content was one thing. Our content was old and tired, and it was 2016, I guess, uh, version. So we had to update that. And then from there, that basically gives them the machine, uh, of the words to make it work and make it work locally.
Eric Henley: Uh, versus falling two pages down, uh, you become the top band guy, or at least in the top on the first page. Uh, so, and we rely, most of our advertisement advertisement now is with Google and Google AdWords. So these guys, uh, they're making a shine and, uh, I think it, it's reflected in the reviews as well. Oh, that's so 
Jimmy Lea: good.
Eric Henley: Yep. That's 
Jimmy Lea: so good. Yeah. The most important thing for any Google ad, any ROI on those ad spend is making that phone ring. 
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yep. And then they offer you all kinds of tools to see what's, what's calling, who's calling the type of customer, and then they can make adjustments on the fly to, to change up, you know, say you're not hitting, say it's tires.
Eric Henley: We, we rebranded this year with tires. We're up 75% in tire sales and they're doing sponsored ads for us. So, uh. It's a, it's amazing the result just in tires this year, just from the rebrand and then what they're doing to advertise for us. Um, 
Jimmy Lea: well that's phenomenal. So, so do, do you have a, a dashboard or do you have a, how do you track your return on investment with what you're spending on Google Ads versus, uh, what Auto Boosts is making the phone ring?
Eric Henley: So we meet about once a month, uh, Joe, uh, and he's got the Google Analytics. Um. Dashboard and there are tons of metrics, things, I don't know. And so each time 
Jimmy Lea: there's metrics on top of metrics in your Google analytics. I, we know this. 
Eric Henley: And, and he and he, uh, each time I learn a little bit more about what that means and how that affects, uh, our searches.
Eric Henley: Uh, and he can tell me what words are being searched. You know, it's amazing the, the amount of data. That they provide. Oh, 
Joe Pfender: I mean. 
Eric Henley: I 
Joe Pfender: mean, we're getting into the weeds, talking about, um, I mean down to the campaign or the keyword level, how we're allocating Eric's budget, and from that perspective, how it's being spent.
Joe Pfender: And then the next layer that he was referring to beyond just Google Analytics, Eric can log into our call tracking platform. Look at the calls generated from Google Ads. There's advanced features for scoring leads, so it's true visibility into the results, and then the connection between marketing and sales.
Joe Pfender: Um, so you know, a lot of features and a lot of tools to give clients that visibility to justify the investment and understand what they're actually getting for the investment in Google Ads. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. What, what kind of a return do you auto boosts do you promote for shop owners? What should they expect to get from their Google ads?
Joe Pfender: Sure. Um, so we do have a, what we call a revenue attribution tool that, um, is in a beta right now. Um, we had about, uh, 50 ish clients, uh, towards the end of 2024 on our revenue attribution tool. And the average roas or return on ad spend was about 700%. So that means that the average client was making $7 in revenue per dollar spent in Google ads.
Joe Pfender: Um, I've seen higher than that. Though we see a benchmark or what we should be aiming for at a minimum is about three to hundred, 300 to 400% ROAS on Google Ads. So we're looking at a minimum three to $4 in revenue per dollar spent. 
Adam Kushner: Well, and then working backwards from there. Right. Because, um, you know, as Joe kind of touched on briefly, it's that connection between marketing and sales and working with, working with the shop owner and, and with the team.
Adam Kushner: You know, that's picking the phone up and that's fielding those leads. Um. And then giving them visibility into, um, you know, the phone call where they can use it for sales training. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, they can, uh, help us with feedback to optimize. Um, so being engaged like that with your marketing is extremely important.
Adam Kushner: And even if it's not Google Ads, you know, anywhere that those leads are coming from, um. To make sure that, that you're working with your marketing company. Uh, 'cause it's not just, you know, checking the box of I'm, I'm doing Google ads, or I have a website. Um, it goes way beyond that, you know, to sales actions that are being, being taken within the business.
Eric Henley: Oh yeah, sure. And then one other thing I was gonna mention, you mentioned the calls. So they help us set up the Google Whisper. So now we know if it's a Google generated call and we know, uh, the sales process might be a little bit different. So you get a little heads up before you answer. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, isn't that great?
Jimmy Lea: That, that's awesome, because now a service advisor can be with the understanding that this phone call is costing the company 10 bucks, 12 bucks, 15 bucks, 20 bucks, whatever it is. Maybe it's a buck 50. Depends on the keyword that's being spent on, but it, uh, this is a very valuable phone call. Yep. You better close, you better make an appointment.
Jimmy Lea: You better close a deal. 
Eric Henley: Yeah. And then we created a, a Google Doc, uh, to track those calls as well. So they, they, they, they, they'll, the advisor will type in. What the call was, what it was about, whether it was converted or not. Uh, and so he and I can interact, uh, the next month and say, okay, these are the calls we're getting.
Eric Henley: What, what is, is this working well? Could we change something up to where we get this call versus that call? 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, interesting. Yep. So what have you found that is, uh, working the best with your advisors right now? What are they able to close quickly and easily? 
Eric Henley: So it it with the, with the DEI, the transparency with that and the value, um, they pre-sell before, uh, the customer ever gets there.
Eric Henley: Uh, and then the intake process, we changed it up some. So we asked for the expectation, uh, what is your expectation? You wanna drive it to the wheels fall off, or do you just wanna fix what's broken? Now you, you, you still, you still do the 300% rule. You still do a great DVI. It's just the manner in which you come at the customer, uh, post DVI, and it, it's, it's just a way of framing, uh, the way you present the estimate in a way that's non-offensive.
Eric Henley: And then you, for those that come to you, this as a podcast I listened to the other day. Another way to do that, if you say you've got a customer who comes in who thinks they know what's wrong already. You can use that to your advantage and say, you know, you were dead on. We have performed tests and procedures and confirmed that what you said is right and we're not gonna waste your money by replacing a component that doesn't need.
Eric Henley: So it's just those little new it instead of, Hey, this is Joe with Joe's Garage. It's a warm grating, it's interaction, uh, it's setting the expectation. And then get then providing 'em with a great customer experience and then if you screw up, own it and, and make it right. So, 
Jimmy Lea: yeah. 
Eric Henley: Oh, that's powerful. 
Jimmy Lea: And did you hear that, Joe?
Jimmy Lea: You now own Joe's Garage? I guess so. I, I know a guy that can help you with your website, Joe, so. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah, I know a guy too, 
Jimmy Lea: Adam. Uh, we need to hook up Joe with a Joe's garage. Sounds good. We'll 
Adam Kushner: get 'em some t-shirts too. 
Jimmy Lea: T-shirt. Oh yeah. I love it. I love it. So you, uh, I I love that you're educating the customer.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, I've always said that an educated customer, an educated client, makes better decisions. So those DDIs, even though it's a, it's an inspection sheet, it's goes so much into marketing as well. Mm-hmm. Marketing your business, but marketing the, the effectiveness of your business, the effectiveness of your inspections.
Jimmy Lea: I, I'm grateful for those dvs. There were three cars we were looking at buying, and with the DVI, we paid 160 bucks per inspection. Mm-hmm. Thank you for the shop for doing this and avoided some serious headaches. 
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yep. Pre-buy inspection. Yep. Better than post buyer. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh my gosh, yes. Yeah. We found some nefarious, uh, things that a used car dealership was doing with a Honda to bring that O2 sensor out of, uh, out of the flow.
Eric Henley: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I know what that is. I've seen that done before. Yeah. It's a little sketchy 
Jimmy Lea: now in their defense. I don't think it was the used car dealership that was doing it. I think the previous owner had done it because the patina was way too. It was old. It wasn't something, it wasn't new. Like they, they had just done it.
Jimmy Lea: So I, I think they bought it that way, but we weren't gonna buy that headache or that problem, that that's not where we wanted to go. So I appreciate you doing the dvs, the 300% rule. Yep. Look at everything, estimate everything, show everything to the clients, and, and it's their decision. 
Eric Henley: Well, one other thing I wanted to talk about, 'cause we talked about content and about upgrading that, so.
Eric Henley: With the institute's training on, uh, brand and how important context statements are in the way they affect your brand. So just to be sure you've got your mission, your vision, your values, operating principles down, and then wrap your content around that. Make sure it, it talks about those things and live it out.
Eric Henley: You know, you, you have to live those. They, they can't be just something on the wall. It has to be what you believe in. I think that really, that gives you great content and that gives them something to really make you shine on, on the web versus, uh, you know, somebody how their own site built or maybe their some parts vendor site built it for them.
Eric Henley: Uh, your website looks way different than anybody else's, and, and it speaks locally to your, to who you're trying to attract too. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Adam, when you're setting up a website for a shop, how many, how many pages do you set up a shop with, or how much customization does a shop allowed in developing their website?
Adam Kushner: Well, there's definitely no one size fits all. Um, but Eric kind of, you know, he hit the point with making sure that your website represents your brand. Um, you know, we like to say represent your brand, resonates with your local market and, and that it tells your story that it's a differentiator. Um, because if someone does click through on that search engine result, and you know, they're not just calling a phone number that's showing up in Google Maps and, and they're looking at your website, that's affecting their decision to buy and to do business with you.
Adam Kushner: So making sure that it's not cookie cutter content. Uh, making sure that you're not using stock images with people in them that are not your employees or your customers. Um. Making sure that, you know, do the best that you can with the curb appeal that you have with your business to, to take, take pictures and, and to present, you know, what the customer is gonna see and experience once they arrive.
Adam Kushner: Um, so, you know, video is extremely important in, you know, the most authentic way that you can tell a story. Uh, so we always just encourage shop owners to, to invest in video. Um, and it doesn't have to be in your shop, you know, it can be the owner telling their story and why they do what they do and why they're passionate about it.
Adam Kushner: And I mean, that's where I want to take my shop, right? I don't want to take it to, you know, we've got 30 shops within five miles of us, and you know, which one is the, the true, authentic, the, from the owner down to the guy taking the trash out. They all care about the customer. Oh yeah, 
Jimmy Lea: that's important. 
Adam Kushner: So, so getting that, you know, into your digital presence is extremely important.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. There is so much information you can show on video. There's so much you can put in that B roll that doesn't have to be said. You can observe it, you can see it, you can see it happening Professionally, done video is definitely the way to go. I, and I always say that there's three videos you definitely want on your website, uh, Joe or Adam.
Jimmy Lea: What videos do you highly recommend shop owners have on their website? 
Adam Kushner: I'm gonna let you guess what Jimmy was gonna say, Joe. 
Joe Pfender: Well, I think customer testimonials is one for sure. Um, you know, another example, and I mean, Adam alluded to this before, having the auto shop owner talk about why he started the shop, especially when we're talking about, you know, helping people and delivering the best service and keeping people safe.
Joe Pfender: Um, you know, those are two things that come to my mind immediately. Um, and then a third one, Adam, what would you say? 
Adam Kushner: Well, just like a, a, a culture video, you know, other than the owner, but it would be, you know, the employees talking about why they work there. Um, and, uh, you know, that overarching about us, you know, where it's, um, you know, having the owner, you know, talk about, um, why he's passionate about what you do.
Adam Kushner: You know, pictures of happy, smiling customers and service advisors. And, uh, and painting the picture you know of, of your culture and, and what it's like at your shop. Um, you know, especially today, right? You can have customers that never even step foot on the property or they drop their car off after hours.
Adam Kushner: You know, they pick it up before you open and they never even interact with anybody that works at your company. Literally, right. Like never even on the phone, just through text messages. Um, so you can't even hear their voice, um, for them to, you know, have that, um, you know, communication that, that communicates who they are as a company.
Adam Kushner: So you can do it with video, um, even with audio ads. Oh, for sure. 
Jimmy Lea: Eric, have you ever had a client that fits what Adam's talking about, which is a mirror image of me? Where you're texting the client all the time, but uh, you really don't ever get to see them. Have you ever had those clients? 
Eric Henley: Yeah. Yeah.
Eric Henley: Especially during, uh, COVID we had a lot of people that didn't wanna come in and so that, that became a kind of a normal thing. Uh, and we still have that now. Now we really stress a at least conversation after the DBI sent, uh, 'cause we really want that. Uh. Endearment. We want that personal touch. Uh, we want stand out in the way we speak to them different than any other shop.
Eric Henley: Uh, so, uh, we still, we still, uh, promote that, but there are existing customers who trust us that would rather just approved, go ahead, do it, you know, and let me know when it's done. Yeah, those are the 
Jimmy Lea: key tossers. They toss you the keys and say, tell me when they can pick it up. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta love that.
Jimmy Lea: Those are good. Those are really cool. Well, what about, um, online scheduling, Eric, how important has that become to your shop? 
Eric Henley: Yeah, so we, we have another, uh, integration we use for that now and uh, it definitely frees up time for the service advisor, uh, 'cause it'll pop into the calendar. We've got the parameters, set the rules, and, uh, so it knows when it's open, uh, or, or, or if there's a waiting appointment available.
Eric Henley: And they don't, I mean, it saves them on the call so they can build estimates and sell work, manage workflow in the shop and not be on the phone as much. So yeah, we definitely use that, uh, uh, a lot more than, than, uh, and it's, it's unified now too. So a lot of the new softwares will not only take your website book appointment button, but they'll take your, uh, Google My Business button and they all you not to the same funnel and it lands in your calendar and it gathers more data to even some AI components that will, uh, are intuitive.
Eric Henley: They'll learn. The direction that customer's going with their, uh, description and asks more for clarity. So there's less of, um, mistakes on, uh, intake. Uh, so it improves that as well. 
Jimmy Lea: That's good. What, uh, having the, uh, online scheduling, I know it's like super valuable. It, it's something that I always utilize for sure.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, and because I, I drop it off early or the night before and, and let you have the car all day and I'll pick it up in two or three days whenever you're done. Mm-hmm. And we can rearrange that. Um, what, what about the, uh, uh, what are you doing to assure that those who will online schedule with you actually show up?
Eric Henley: Uh, so there is a reminder, uh, text that goes out, uh, 24 hours before. Uh, to remind them and we get them. I see 'em in the replies. Uh, the guys get it in a conversation center, but I, I see 'em in the, in a, in the business email, and I'll look through to see how many reply. There's a lot of 'em just, yes, or maybe they've got some other statement they put in there, but, uh, that's, that's how they confirms it.
Eric Henley: And then, uh, then that, that's pretty much it. The reminder, if they miss the appointment. Uh, there's a way, uh, one of the integrations, uh, if they began a, they call it a lead, if they began a lead and then didn't complete it. So it already gathers their name, it gathers their phone number, and from there we have a nice warm text that's already created.
Eric Henley: It's past it in, they create a profile, I guess, enough to contact that customer and then send a nice, warm text out that, Hey, noticed you started to book an appointment, must have run into a problem or something. How can we help you with that and go ahead and get you scheduled in. Uh, and you'd be surprised how many of those convert.
Eric Henley: Uh, maybe it's an older person or wasn't used to, used to going down that and for some reason they didn't call. 
Speaker 5: Yeah. 
Eric Henley: So, uh. So, yeah, that's, it's definitely helped with that. And then, uh, the reminders that go out, uh, 30, 60, 90 day reminders to keep you busy for all declined work. Oh, really? Uh, yeah. If you've got, I mean, that's, if, if you did a great DBI and say they did their breaks and there was fluids and whatever else declined, uh, you create an automated.
Eric Henley: Text blast and, and you remind them every 30, 60, 90 days, and you'd be surprised how many times on the calendar you say, Mrs. Jones returning for recommended work from last service. 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I would, I would be surprised as well. 
Eric Henley: Yep. 
Adam Kushner: Well, and as a, a marketing company, I mean that's, that's why a relationship with a business owner like Eric can be successful because he's doing all of the other things that need to happen after the click, you know, after that initial ARRA interaction that we can trust that his sales team is taking every action that they can to make sure that that lead converts into revenue in the shop.
Jimmy Lea: You know that, that's an interesting point you bring up there, Adam. What? What do you see that Eric does that other shops don't? That is that difference that makes him just that much more successful in his conversions. 
Adam Kushner: Well, everything that he just spoke about Yeah. Is, you know, it's a differentiator if his competition is not doing that and, um, you know, someone's scheduling an appointment and then not showing up because it wasn't convenient or, you know, something else came up, you know, following up with them to make sure that you get 'em back in to the shop, um, and recapture that, you know, the, you know, unsold service work.
Adam Kushner: Where, you know, keeping the customer from going back to Google and searching for the next automotive repair shop when Anita arises, but keeping your brand name in front of them. So even if they do go back and search for an automotive repair shop, that they already, they recognize you and they remember you and they remember the positive experience that they had.
Adam Kushner: So they choose you again. 
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 
Adam Kushner: And that's something that's happening, you know, not just with automotive repair, that consumers are just not, um. Not necessarily defaulting back to the same business that they used previously. 
Jimmy Lea: No, they're not. They, it is like, they forget about that oil sticker that's up there in the corner.
Jimmy Lea: They don't remember to come back. Um, you know, um, Kyle has a really good question that he's put into, uh, the chat here. I have an issue with this too. Some clients see that as impersonal. The texts going back to confirm an appointment. Where, uh, would there be a better way for us to reach out for that appointment Confirmation.
Jimmy Lea: Uh, because they get so many appointment requests and no follow through. So I'm guessing that Kyle, you probably have a, a pretty high no show rate. Is that what you're saying there? Uh, and to his question, Joe, what, what advice would you give to Kyle? How can he improve his process? 
Joe Pfender: Sure. Um, I mean, we could always be following up with those customers, right?
Joe Pfender: I mean, I think that we'll see some existing customers that may be going to, um, you know, an appointment scheduler to book, uh, simple services, right? Like oil change, something that's gonna be routine, right? We may see more of those customers calling to actually have a conversation, ask questions, and discuss with the shop.
Joe Pfender: Um. I think that, I mean, at some level, yeah. Kyle says a 20% no show, no show rate. So, um, 
Adam Kushner: is that high or low, or is that 
Joe Pfender: okay? Well, it's just Joe, it's the, 
Adam Kushner: it's the reality of working with consumers, right? Like, I'm the guy that if my dentist doesn't call me the day before, they know I'm not gonna show up. And I, I love, know, and trust 'em.
Adam Kushner: Right, but, but I need that reminder and that kind of personal touch. 'cause I'm, I'm a busy guy. I, I don't see all the, I can barely respond to friends and family with a text message. So cutting through that chatter is extremely important. You know, there's services out there where it's straight to voicemail where, you know, you don't have to get the customer on the phone, but.
Adam Kushner: That's another way to potentially have that touchpoint. You know, something that I used to do in training service advisors is the day before, you know, making those phone calls, especially during slow times, right? Because that's when you can't afford to not have a no-show or to have a no-show. A no-show could be a technician going home early, so, you know.
Adam Kushner: Having a service advisor do that one more thing, you know, or having a customer service person within your company, um, it can be an extremely important thing. And, and just making sure the customer shows up because as a business owner, right, Eric, you spent so much money to generate that phone call and to get that even scheduled appointment 
Speaker 5: mm-hmm.
Adam Kushner: That, you know, the person not showing up is wasted marketing dollars. It's, 
Eric Henley: yep. Yeah. Again, like what? You said's lost productivity too. You end up sending a, uh, technician home early, uh, because of that. So one of the things that you can, you can do, and we mentioned, um, I mentioned personalizing the, the text message, but the reminders, depending on what software you're using, you can actually, uh, some of these offer the ability to, uh, personalize the 30 day, 60 day reminder.
Eric Henley: So it's not just. Automated canned looking text. It's, it's, Hey, notice that you're coming in today. You know, whatever you can, you can, you can warm it up and make it fit the culture that you, you want presented the, and, and with that, I think your conversion of appointments will go up. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. 
Eric Henley: Especially the reminder part of it.
Eric Henley: But even, even the appointments, uh, just the little extra things that you do just to stand out. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. Yeah. And, and depending on that software, it can input their name and their vehicle 
Speaker 5: mm-hmm. 
Jimmy Lea: Into it. But something that I've also done and and done with quite a few different shops is to go into chat GPT and say, this is who my shop is.
Jimmy Lea: This is what we do, da, da, da, da. Give it a good history. So chat understands who you are and what your culture is. Also include your website. Mm-hmm. So as a reference, here's my website and here's what we do to make sure that we stand out as different. Yep. Chat, give me eight or nine different text messages that are personable, warm, relatable relationship building.
Jimmy Lea: Mm-hmm. So that they want to come back to us. With those eight, you're gonna look at 'em and go, all right, love, love, hate, hate, love, love, hate, hate, love. You take those ones that you love, put 'em into the rotation. So now when you're communicating with the customer, they see that communication, it's not the same can message that it was previously.
Jimmy Lea: It's, it's a new message. 
Eric Henley: Yeah. We, uh, we did an exercise a couple months ago, I think in HPG, uh, and this went, this goes to already having your contact statement, so. You can take and paste all that into chat and then ask it for a, uh, unique selling points other than the ones that are like normal, like through your 36,000 mile like a SE certified.
Eric Henley: What, what kind of statements can we put out there that fit our culture, that fit the message we want out there and stay away from the generic ones that everybody else uses and, and you can tell it all kinds of stuff and it, it will. It's amazing what you can do to make yourself different than the next shop down the street just.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it, it really is. It really is. And, and Eric, you mentioned HPG, for those who don't understand the high performance group with the institute. The High Performance Group is, is a group of shop owners that are looking to do one of two things. Either they're looking to expand their kingdom and grow it, or they're going to optimize a single location into a multimillion dollar.
Jimmy Lea: Per month, uh, per year location. 
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm. 
Jimmy Lea: So that HPG works very closely with, uh, Mr. Michael Hertzberg Smith. In developing your strategy, what do you want to do? Do you want to optimize the one, do you want to grow the kingdom? What's your exit strategy? Are you selling to a key employee or a child? Or are you looking to build the kingdom and then sell it to private equity?
Jimmy Lea: But you still want to have your toe in the. In the, in the water, so you still have your finger on the pulse of what's happening in the industry. These are all things that Michael can do with shop owners and develop the right strategy so that down the road when you do decide to sell, you're able to get top dollar for your shop because it is ready, it is optimized, it is packaged properly for the best sell.
Jimmy Lea: For those shop owners that wanna sell, they needed to start three years ago. So if you wanna sell in three years, you better start today to get your shop in line and get it ready to go. 
Eric Henley: Yep. Uh, one other thing I wanted to mention about these guys, and, uh, Joe and I talked about this at our last meeting, so it's the Google guaranteed thing.
Eric Henley: Uh, it is really starting to click now. So we, we are going, uh, they're gonna help us with that. Uh, it's a process to get through it, but, uh. Uh, what they can do with ads with that are really, you drill down to local level. Now they do cost more, but you can actually, uh, score them and then ask for one to be removed if it was the wrong call.
Eric Henley: So you don't pay for that. Click. Nice. 
Speaker 5: Uh, 
Eric Henley: but these guys are gonna, uh, that's gonna be the next thing for us, uh, to, to make us stand out just a little more as did, and you guys can expound on that if you want to. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah, I was just gonna jump in and, and talk a little bit about that. So, um, this is called Local Service Ads.
Joe Pfender: It's a newer Google Ads service. Um, it actually operates separately from what traditional Google Ads does with a different model. Traditional Google Ads is pay per click as opposed to local services. Uh, local service ads being paid per lead. Um. So there's a little bit less targeting granularity as what we have with traditional Google Ads.
Joe Pfender: But, um, you get the calls from within the Google Ads user interface, and then you can go in and you can accept them or you can reject them. Um. You know, absolute. Or obviously Google Ads charging you for qualified leads and then you can contest poor leads and attempt to have Google Pay you back. Um, and you know, an important point there is that with local service ads, Google Vets your business, they give you a Google guaranteed badge and the placement as at the very top of the search engine results page, even ahead of what the traditional Google ad placement would be.
Joe Pfender: So in a perfect world, you have the local service ad placement at the top of the page with a Google guaranteed badge. Underneath that, you have a regular Google ad. And then underneath that you have an organic placement within the organic map pack that's dominating the search engine results page and building credibility with the consumer as they scroll down the page.
Joe Pfender: If they don't choose the two ads at the top, they're probably gonna choose you in the organic map pack because it's clear who the best choice is for service as that consumer evaluates their options on the search engine results page. 
Jimmy Lea: And it's amazing when you do that, when you do those searches, Joe, because when you go to page two, that's where you find all the dead bodies.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, but nobody, nobody goes to page two. They really don't. Most don't even 
Joe Pfender: go past, they don't even go past the map pack. Right. They're gonna see the ads at the top. There's three placements within the map pack, and some people will look further than that, but most people, I don't think that's the case.
Eric Henley: Yeah, 
Joe Pfender: it really isn't. 
Eric Henley: Your new movers are gonna click at the top. If they're new to your area, that's where they're going. 
Adam Kushner: Well, if there's local search intent, right, um, then that's what's being served to them. You know, if, if someone's doing more of a informative search of, you know, this is what's wrong with my car, and Google's not showing a map pack, but, um.
Adam Kushner: You know, with that local search intent and having that prominence in the map pack with local service ads is, is definitely an important thing, um, especially when your competition is probably not leveraging that type of ad campaign inside of Google. 
Joe Pfender: This is a point that I also wanna jump in and make that, um, it's early on for local service ads.
Joe Pfender: So if you work through the process of, um, Google does a background check, business registration, there's a pretty intense vetting process, but it's, it's probable that you're gonna be one of the first in your market to leverage local service ads. So the takeaway there is it's never gonna be cheaper than it is right now from a cost per lead perspective, because.
Joe Pfender: You wanna beat your competition to the punch with leveraging new Google ad services. Early adopters are always rewarded. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And the fact that you can contest some of those results to say, Hey, well this was a guy calling me to sell insurance. This was a gal calling to sell me printer cartridges. Yeah.
Jimmy Lea: That's that's not, yeah, that's not for the shop. So that, that's very cool that Google has that. Yeah. And Google's a marketing company. That's what they're doing. 
Joe Pfender: Yeah. Uh, they make it easy for you to give them your dollars unless it's managed properly. Right. Um, so, um, 
Eric Henley: yeah. And didn't you mention, uh, it also, some of it has some AI built into it, so you may not even need to, uh, is it decline the call?
Eric Henley: It knows whether it was a quality call or not, so there are, there is some proofing involved, but some of it, they proof for you, so Right. Eventually that's it. 
Adam Kushner: As it gain more traction, you know, it's been out for a little while. A anything new. We wanna make sure that it's a fit for our client's business model, um, that we can support them in rolling it out seamlessly.
Adam Kushner: And, um. You know, over the months, as, as Google has refined it with what you're mentioning, Eric, where they're starting to just automatically reject the lead as they learn how people talk about an automotive repair shop. Um, you know, prior to automotive, there's other services businesses that Google rolled local service ads out to.
Adam Kushner: Um. And then they continue to expand it. And I always like to say it's whatever Google's new toy is, uh, you want to take advantage of because they're vetting it. They want feedback and they want to improve it, uh, to make sure that it's profitable to the, the customer, you know, the business owner that's advertising, um, and that they're gonna be able to scale it.
Adam Kushner: Um, so it's, you know. Definitely taking advantage of whatever's new, um, you know, that Google or any other marketing platform has that you can leverage to have the competitive advantage over your, over the shop down the street. 
Joe Pfender: Yep. Yep. Totally agree. You know, something that I noticed, um, to Eric's point, yes, Google's AI will kick in, um, after a certain time threshold and attempt to score the lead, but the clients that are doing it manually and also giving feedback to Google on what they see as a non-qualified lead.
Joe Pfender: Seem to be getting the best results. And I think what's happening is that Google is rewarding the accounts that are engaging with them the most and providing feedback they're giving you, or you're getting more results for providing more data to Google as they refine this, as not just something that, um, you know, is, is new in the last couple months, six months.
Joe Pfender: I'm not exactly sure what the timeline is there, but it's here to stay. 
Jimmy Lea: That's true. That's true. Well, that's good. Well, so, uh, as we circle now and look into land, this plane here, as we're talking about marketing and talking about websites, we're talking about SEO, we're talking about Google and Google ads, local ads.
Jimmy Lea: If you had a magic wand and could wave at Joe, then Adam, then Eric, what would you change in the automotive aftermarket, Joe? 
Joe Pfender: Magic wand. Magic wand. What would I change in the automotive aftermarket? You're putting me on the spot, Jimmy. Um hmm. I'm gonna punt this one to Adam.
Adam Kushner: Well, I, I don't know. You know, I, I've been doing this my entire life. Um, literally my entire life. I, you know. Probably made the first website for an automotive repair shop before anybody knew you needed a website. Um, you know, on Google Ads. You know, walking into a group of shop owners and saying, this is the most important thing that you can do, Google ads.
Adam Kushner: And, you know, they all look at me like I'm crazy because they have no idea what it is. Um, you know, if I was gonna change one thing about our industry from a marketing perspective, um, it would be, you know, look outside of the box. And, you know, don't just look at what your competitors are doing, or your friend that has a shop across the country is doing.
Adam Kushner: Look outside of the automotive space, you know, when you're interacting with businesses. It's, it's taking that active role. Um, I was telling a story in the office about, uh, calling my eye doctor to get an appointment, to get a new pair of glasses and have them redo my prescription with an eye exam. And they're, you know, well, it'll be two months.
Adam Kushner: And, you know, first of all, I had to call them Jimmy. And you know, I don't like to call someone to make an appointment. Yeah. I wanna be able to do it online and in a seamless way. Um, but I had to call them and then they told me two months. And I'm like, well, my glasses are scratching. I need new glasses.
Adam Kushner: Well, we can get you in a month and a half. And it's like, well you just lost a customer. 
Speaker 5: Yeah. You know, 
Adam Kushner: whether, I know, I still know, like, and trust them, but. If, if you're not gonna make an exception for me and help me, and that's friction in that relationship and it's identifying, you know, where that is in your marketing, where that is in your sales process and, and focusing on sales enablement and um, and then even, you know, when the customer gets to the shop and, um.
Adam Kushner: So, you know, looking outside of our space with all of your other interactions at what you can apply to your business, um, and then understanding it's not just all about marketing. You know, marketing can put your shop in front of the ideal customer, encourage them to choose you. Um, but it's, you know, it's a partnership between us and a shop owner.
Adam Kushner: And for it to work, it has to be a partnership to be successful. 
Jimmy Lea: I love that. I love that and I love that you're encouraging shop owners to think more dynamic or rather than static. Don't do the standard the same as everybody else. Let's make it bigger, bolder, better. Look at other industries. What are they doing?
Jimmy Lea: How can we implement their best practices in what we're doing? Uh, I love that. Thank you Adam. Really appreciate that. Eric, the magic wand is now to you. Mm-hmm. 
Eric Henley: So you all know, and many people in auto repair land know the perception the public has of us, of our industry. There's 266,000 of us, I think in the, in the US that run independent auto repair shops.
Eric Henley: And, and the, the outstanding thing that we're perceived as is dishonest. Untrustworthy. So we, that's part of our vision statement, is to transform that perception of our industry, to make a difference for the future and to act with integrity no matter what. Whether we make money on it or whether we, we screwed up, we hung the wrong part on it, we're gonna, our commitment is that, so.
Eric Henley: And then the other thing is the best customer experience that, that they can, like no other shop does. We talk on a level they understand, we get to know them as a person, as a family. We remember things about them. And uh, so when they come to us, it's not just throwing their keys at us. They hope we do 'em right.
Eric Henley: They, they know we're gonna do them right. We're gonna be honest. We are gonna treat them exceptionally well. And that's, that's what we're after. 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Thank you Eric. Thank you for emphasizing, uh, the, the, that we want to build our image in the industry. We wanna build the image of the automotive aftermarket, and I'm all about that.
Jimmy Lea: In fact, that's what we are about here at the institute is better business. For you, which in result is a better life for you and your shop, your techs, your service advisors. Better business, better life, better industry that helps us to improve the industry overall. So as we lock arms together and we all make this trip together, we can do it.
Jimmy Lea: We can be that difference in the, in the entire world. And Erica, I'll join you in that battle to change the image of the aftermarket. To be the trusted partners for our clients so that they understand we are the right place for you to bring your vehicle to. We'll keep you safe on the road. 'cause keeping you safe on the road helps also to protect me and my family to keep us safe on the road as well.
Jimmy Lea: So I love that and I love that you're implementing that 300% rule on all cars every single time digital vehicle inspections. That's super awesome. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thank you for your, uh, input and your knowledge, your sharing. And uh, gosh dang, this has been such a great conversation. I, I, I love when it comes to marketing and the things that you can do as a shop and shop owner, there's some things you can do yourself as a shop owner, but there's definitely some guidance that you would be very wise to hire.
Jimmy Lea: A coach for or to hire, uh, a professional with Auto Boosto and have them help you, whether it's Joe or Adam. Thank you very much. You guys been a great day. I look forward to talking to you again soon and we'll see you all soon. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks Jimmy, 
Speaker 5: everyone. See you guys. Thanks.

135 - "Ask Me Anything" Session with Cecil Bullard & Lucas Underwood

135 - "Ask Me Anything" Session with Cecil Bullard & Lucas Underwood
July 23, 2025 - 00:56:34
Show Summary:
In this AMA-style episode where Lucas Underwood and Cecil Bullard dive deep into leadership, shop management, and real-world challenges auto repair shop owners face. Cecil shares his personal journey from resenting his father’s shop to running multiple successful businesses and eventually founding The Institute. The duo tackles essential questions on hiring, pay plans, morale during slow periods, extended warranties, and pricing strategies. They emphasize how attitude and simple systems can drastically improve outcomes. The episode wraps up with marketing insights and the critical mindset shifts needed to sustain long-term success in the automotive industry.
 
Host(s):
Lucas Underwood, Shop Owner of L&N Performance Auto Repair and Changing the Industry Podcast
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
[00:01:34] - Cecil’s entry into the industry after a career-ending injury
[00:03:52] - Transition from shop ownership to coaching
[00:07:57] - First lever to pull during slow months: morale
[00:13:03] - Structuring hybrid pay plans for technicians
[00:19:11] - Gross profit per hour vs. overall gross profit
[00:28:22] - Handling extended warranty work in your shop
[00:34:00] - Marketing for performance vs. general repair
[00:41:56] - Dealing with toxic employees and bad hires
[00:44:30] - Buying new equipment vs. increasing car count
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
 
Lucas Underwood: Welcome everybody. I'm here with Cecil Bullard. My name's Lucas Underwood. We're here for an AMA Cecil. How you doing, buddy? 
Cecil Bullard: I'm great, brother. I'm always great. 
Lucas Underwood: Yes sir. Yes sir. So, uh, we've, uh, we've been through a lot together. You're my current business coach and we've had a lot of really cool stuff happening and, and we've been through some struggles.
Lucas Underwood: We've been through some wins and been through some losses and I'm, I'm honored to have you on my team and working through this with me. And the folks from the management group and, and helping us work with our managers here in the shop. And so, um, excited to be here for the a MA today and, uh, excited to see what all it is that we're gonna talk about and, and the questions we're gonna have here.
Lucas Underwood: Csil. I'm gonna kick it off kind of with you and, and let's talk a little bit about you. I know there's a lot of folks in the room who know who you are, but would you care to share with the ones who don't know who you are? A little bit about your history and, and where the institute came from? 
Cecil Bullard: Dad had a shop, uh, grew up in, uh, didn't have a lot to do with it because dad was, you know, he was overprotective.
Cecil Bullard: So it wasn't fun for me to be there. Uh, we didn't make a lot of money. Uh, dad was always at work. Uh, I resented the shop as a, as a youth, uh, because it stole my father away from me. Um, and. When I turned 19, I was at college playing basketball. That's what I wanted to do, and, uh, shattered an ankle and, uh, uh, in a basketball game about three weeks before the season started.
Cecil Bullard: That kind of ended my basketball career. Uh, I only went to college to chase girls and play basketball, so since I couldn't. Play basketball and I wasn't very good at chasing girls anymore 'cause I didn't have, you know, two legs under me. Um, uh, I went to my dad and said, I, I'd like to come to work for you.
Cecil Bullard: And became a tech and then a service advisor. I. Uh, a few years in and then a few years after that I was the manager of the shop. 'cause I can't leave things alone. Right. You know, it's kind of that thing about me. And, and, uh, then I owned three shops. Uh, I left Utah about 28, 29 years ago. Came up to u uh, excuse me, left California, came up to Utah and, uh, ran some other people's shops, did some other things.
Cecil Bullard: And, um. Kind of, uh, ran a very successful shop in Northern California. Got recognized for that, uh, joined the SCCA there, and, uh, decided that I would be best. Um, my best use would be to be a coach for other people. Uh, we did 2.6 million with fourex and two service advisors, parts guy. Uh, that was 120%, uh, at the time with an 800 and whatever it was, average 8 62, I think was the average repair order.
Cecil Bullard: And, um, at the time our labor rate was $158 an hour. You're talking 2010. And, um, everyone else was under a hundred. And so we had a very successful, very consistent, very productive shop, very happy clients, obviously very profitable, and that's kind of what led me into coaching. Uh, I work for another, another company, and since I am a technician, I, you know, said, wow, they're making all this money and I could do it better.
Cecil Bullard: I'll just start my own. You too. You too. I'll make all the money and I'll, I'll, I'll, and then I can take Wednesdays off and, you know, all that. And, uh, the good news is lately I've been taking, uh, you know, uh, Fridays off and, and, uh, you know, only 25 years after starting a coaching company. Uh, right. So that's my background.
Cecil Bullard: And I think I have a real passion for. Because of my experience with my father, uh, who you know about passed away about 12 years ago, and on his deathbed, um, had been, think he'd been thinking a lot about his life and talking about how he missed out on his family's stuff. Uh, correct. Yeah. And I didn't want, my main drive is I, I don't want any other kids losing their fathers to their business.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so if I can teach someone to run a good business, make good money, that they can have an outside life besides the business, that's kind of my main drive. And, uh, 
Lucas Underwood: absolutely. And, and you know, for, for our listeners, if at any point you have a question, drop over into the comments and ask the question, um, we're, we're here to answer any questions you may have, but since you, you bring up a really good point is, is that fixing the business.
Lucas Underwood: Is a core component of being the good Father is a core component of being the good husband, is being part of your family, being present. You've heard a lot of my reels recently talking about this because I, I kinda lost sight of that. The business became who I was and, and you know, it's easy. It is, it is.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. It's so easy to lose sight of that and, and kind of get ourselves off into a corner somewhere and we think we're alone. And you know, one of the things I've watched with you is I've watched you work with a lot of clients over the past couple of years, and I watch you walk into their businesses or look at their financials and you say, oh, this is wrong and this is wrong, and this is wrong.
Lucas Underwood: It's simple. Just change this and change this and change this. But it's not that simple, right? It takes, well, it is encouragement. 
Cecil Bullard: It is, it's, that's the, that's the problem. You guys overcomplicate the shit out of it. Yeah, it's, it's not, it's very simple. In most cases, it just doesn't feel that way because you don't, you either don't know what you don't know or you don't have the experience.
Cecil Bullard: To feel good about that. So if you look at, at young children, you know, yeah. 12, 13 years old, they got their first boyfriend, their first girlfriend, and all of a sudden they broke up and their life is over. Yeah. I mean, for them it is completely and absolutely devastating. And then a guy like me, I'm like.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, your heart got broke. Okay. Big deal. You know that's gonna happen a lot of times before you find the right person because you have the experience and the knowledge, um, from that experience to make different decisions or to lead in a different way. Yeah, right. And so absolutely for me, I look at running a shop.
Cecil Bullard: I was having a conversation with someone, I can't even tell you who it was, but they had done something amazing. I, I can't remember what it was, uh, it's just a, a week ago. But I was, I was thinking, you know, it's, it's like a technician. They drive their car and they, and they work on people's cars and they don't realize how talented.
Cecil Bullard: They really are. Yeah. Right. To them. Absolutely. The curse of knowledge. Yeah. To them it's easy, right? Oh yeah. I pulled the engine apart and uh, you know, I replaced the pistons and you know, did blah, blah, blah. And I, you know, uh, today, if I was to pull like a timing chain off of a modern car today, I'd be like, huh.
Cecil Bullard: Right. You know, what do I do? Um, and I used to be able to do that in my sleep, right? Yeah. But it's that, it's that. It is easy. Most of what we're gonna ask you to do is easy. The only reason it's hard is because you don't have the knowledge of the experience. Right? Absolutely. And, and so when I tell you to terminate somebody and go, Hey, here's why you need to do this.
Cecil Bullard: Why, why do you 
Lucas Underwood: gotta throw me under the bus like that? Come on now. 
Cecil Bullard: Right? You know, and, and then four months later you're like, oh. I'm sitting here ling, you know that Right? Well that's kind of the point. They, they, that's what they're looking for here, so we gotta give 'em some of that. Right. That's, that's 
Lucas Underwood: good.
Lucas Underwood: So we have our first question. When the shop is having a slow month, what's the first lever you pull? Marketing operations or morale? 
Cecil Bullard: Uh, morale. Um, yours first. Yeah, I guarantee you the, the, the attitude of, oh, it's gonna be another crappy day. I have a client right now, uh, I talk to my clients, uh, about every two weeks.
Cecil Bullard: You know, sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less, depends and, uh. So, you know, how, how you doing? Uh, same shit, same day, right? You know, and you're like, dude, you have to change your attitude, right? Because your attitude affects everyone in your business. And absolutely. The other part about, think about this.
Cecil Bullard: So Lucas, how long you been in business? Uh, 17 years. Almost 18 now. Okay. 17 years. And you're still there? Yep. Absolutely. And how many crappy, crappy days have you had? 
Lucas Underwood: Right, A ton. There's been a couple that I thought it was over, right? I knew it was over a couple times. At least I wished it was. 
Cecil Bullard: So, attitude is in a way, is first because if you can't get your own attitude straight.
Cecil Bullard: Then nobody around you is gonna have their attitude straight. And so your marketing then is gonna like phone rings and instead of, Hey, good morning, thank you for calling Larry's Autoworks. This is Cecil, how can I help you today? It's like, yeah, what do you want? Right? Yeah. And, and it, I mean, you could even go, good morning.
Cecil Bullard: Thank you for calling Larry's Autoworks Cecil, you know, uh, but it's not the same. Right? Yeah. So, so it's a, uh, cascading effect. Attitude is first right now. And, and obviously I think second would be to address, um, if, if all of a sudden I don't have cars, is it I don't have phone calls and I'm not converting phone calls or I don't have cars.
Cecil Bullard: Okay, yes. Which is it? And then yeah, being different, I always say. You know, 'cause it's funny you've heard me say I don't know a thousand times 'cause you've been in a lot of classes and you know, I've had a lot of one-on-ones. Raise your labor rate. Raise your labor rate. So you do that. A shop owner raises labor rate 10 bucks an hour and you know, all of a sudden he has a bad week.
Cecil Bullard: It's because of the labor rate. Oh my God. See, so we raised the labor rate and it's, oh, my business went to crap and look what it did. And oh my God. And the fact is, no, it was gonna be a crappy week. Anyway, we've, we've been through them. If you're in this business, you're going to have no matter what you do.
Cecil Bullard: Now, there are a lot of things you can do to create consistency in your business, but if you're, if you're not consistent, if you're slowed down, if I have a slow period, it's, it's really nice to go. Well, school's starting, so that's my excuse. But you, you know what? School starts in August every year. Yep. So if you're smart and you're, aren't 
Lucas Underwood: we preparing for it?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah. In June, why are we not talking about what kind of thing we're gonna do? What what community event. I've got a couple of shops that are doing backpack programs for the schools, providing backpacks for kids with, with, you know, paper and pens. Crayons and, you know, whatever, um, for, for the schools and that's going to drive more car count.
Cecil Bullard: And hopefully keep your 
Lucas Underwood: attitude up 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. In that 
Lucas Underwood: one slow time. You know, the two things that I see is, is I talk about a guy named Tim Kit all the time. He was a big leadership guy, um, and worked with a number of universities, and one of the things he said is, if it's not happening in you, if you don't believe it in here.
Lucas Underwood: It's not gonna happen through you. Your people will not, uh, rise to the level that you envision if it's not happening in you because they see it. Yeah. And the second thing is, is, you know, when we talk about that marketing aspect, when we talk about bringing people into the shop, it doesn't work immediately.
Lucas Underwood: And so we panic and then we start making adjustments. We start making changes. We break it, right? Like that's not time to be making, you know, those adjustments sometimes you're 
Cecil Bullard: making, sometimes because you are doing it at out of fear. Yep. You're doing the wrong thing. You can't see the force for the trees.
Cecil Bullard: There's some really great research on, uh, decision making when you are wealthy and when you're broke. Yep. And all the research points out that when you're broke. The decisions are very poor decisions. 
Lucas Underwood: You know, I've noticed this and, and you and I have talked about this. We were sitting around having dinner a couple weeks ago and we talked about, um, one of the things that I continue to see in shop owners, and it's like there is a pan full of hot oil on a hot eye and it catches on fire and the shop owner, they go over and they put the cover on the pan and they get the fire to go out, and then they pull the cover off and it starts back and they say, oh my God, what am I gonna do?
Lucas Underwood: I just have to keep putting this fire out. But they never changed the root of which calls are, take the oil off the pan 
Cecil Bullard: or turn the heat down. 
Lucas Underwood: Right. You know? Exactly. They just keep doing the same thing over and over. Yeah. So, uh, we've got another really good question. Um, and it was asking about setting up pay plans for technicians, and I know we gotta kind of keep that short because we wanna be able to, to answer as many questions as we can.
Lucas Underwood: I've been talking a lot about hybrid pay plans in my shop and why I believe that's better. And uh, it says what's the best way to structure a hybrid? Incentive slash pay plan for technicians say hourly plus bonus. What do you think the best way is? 
Cecil Bullard: So I just spent almost two hours doing pay plans for shop, um, theory quickly.
Cecil Bullard: Uh, I need 60% of my pay to be based on showing up, and I need 40% to be based on specific things that I need to accomplish in my position. So if I think about a tech, what do I want from a tech? I want productivity. Uh, most of the shops don't have the productivity they need. It's costing 'em tens of thousands of dollars a month.
Cecil Bullard: And, uh, it's, it's, it's detrimental to your profitability. Uh, I need quality of work, so I need educated people that are, uh, able to think, uh, uh, moving forward, et cetera. And, uh, I want. Quality of work, which means I'm also gonna track comebacks and there'll be some kind of a comeback bonus in the bonus structure.
Cecil Bullard: Bonuses have to be enough to change behavior. You can't give me a dollar an hour and think you're gonna change my behavior. Yeah. So our pay plans, we might start a guy at 28, 30, 32 and give him a 16 to $20 bonus level based on what he does or, or not, and how he produces or she. In that position. Okay. And, and so bonuses have to be enough to motivate behavior and change behavior.
Cecil Bullard: Um, you can never reward someone or punish someone for something they have no control over. Exactly. So for instance, I don't pay text for sales. It's not their job. And I don't pay service advisors for, you know, basic, um, I give them small bonuses for productivity. Because they manage that, but I don't give them huge bonuses for productivity.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause that's not their job. Yeah. Their job make not in their direct control, have what they need to be successful. Right. Yeah. And, and so there are these kind of rules that you base and then you want to have a performance, we call 'em performance enhanced. It's swallows a little better. Uh, and it's so funny because I was just going through one of those plans and we have a, uh, a tech and we're, the other thing is you need to understand financially that.
Cecil Bullard: I wanna pay my tax somewhere around 40% of my labor rate effective with load. So, mm-hmm. Um, if I do that and I have a low production guy that's doing 30 hours and I build this pay plan, then my margins are gonna suck because they're not producing. If I build in a performance enhanced pay plan, so now I'm paying this guy $30 an hour, whether he produces or not, if I give him 30 plus another 15 for producing and and doing what I need, this guy's gonna make 20, 30, 40% more.
Cecil Bullard: But he's also gonna do, you know, 40% more work, which is gonna change my margins and move my margins up, and I'm gonna make more money. And I'm showing this pay plan to this owner and he's like, oh my God, this is genius. No, it's pretty simple. Really. It just follows about seven basic rules and you build, uh, per that way as the business succeeds, I can pay people more money.
Cecil Bullard: Exactly. And they should make more money if they do what I need them to do. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and I think one of the keys that I see often is we, we put too much energy into the pay plan and we make it so complex nobody can understand it. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. They have to be able to, another rule, they have to be able to be simp, keep it simple.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Absolutely. And absolutely. And you have to have a way to measure a, that you both believe is accurate. And you know, I've been in shops where the owner has this convoluted pay plan and the nobody knows what they're getting paid until their check shows up. Which creates, um, anxiety and that anxiety, whether you like it or not, that that's that whole thing.
Cecil Bullard: When you said, Hey, I'm having a, a weak week or a week month or something, you know, it's not that great. What do I work on first? Attitude marketing. You know what? Holy crap attitude, because that attitude comes through. So if you have people that are. That are nervous about their pay 'cause they don't understand kind of how they're gonna get paid or how they're being paid.
Cecil Bullard: Right. They will never give you the kind of productivity that you want because their mind, you know, go to Maslow. If I'm thinking like, how am I gonna feed the family tonight? I can't be thinking about how do I do this timing belt faster. Right. Exactly. Or better. Or how do I do it right or Yeah, yeah. Right.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. I'm just, oh my God, I gotta finish this thing, get it out. 'cause I need that money 'cause I'm gonna, you make bad decisions. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and the core of that is take care of your people. Right? Like take care of your people. 
Cecil Bullard: Well, I think, yeah, the, the whole like our, our better business, better life, better industry, better business, the better you run your business than the better life.
Cecil Bullard: Not just you, the owner, but your people have and their families. 'cause I'm responsible. I mean, we, I, I think we have 27 or 28 people that work for the institute now. They all have families. I'm not responsible for just Cecil, and I'm certainly not responsible for me and my four kids and my wife. I'm responsible for 28 people and their families.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. You're exactly right. And so the better my business runs and, and it, it is simple. If I understand margins, if I understand finance, uh, for the company and. The better it runs and the better I can take care of my people, the better lives they're gonna have and the more opportunity their families are gonna have.
Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right, Cecil and I, it's something that I have seen so much of. Um, I, I do see a question in here, and I, I wanna cover this. We've not popped it up on the screen, but it's asking, what's the best metric to follow when you're pricing yourself to the customer, overall, GP or GP Per hour Now I was always taught overall GP and, and like, I, I see both things, but now Cecil, um, as I've worked more and more with you and, and I truly understand my business' financials.
Lucas Underwood: Mm-hmm. I've started paying more attention to what is my true cost per hour to operate my business. And then I start breaking that down. And, and GP per hour is pretty beneficial in that sense, don't you think? 
Cecil Bullard: I, I've always been a gross profit period guy and never really looked at gross profit per hour until the last four or five years.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Uh, and I wasn't taught by a gross profit per hour guy. And what I do understand, and I've done the math multiple times, so there was a competing coaching company. They put an article out in Ratchet Ranch and it was like, oh, it's all about gross profit per hour, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, you don't get it.
Cecil Bullard: And by the way, it doesn't have to be one or the other. Both is is really good. And we're kind of a one or the other, I don't know, industry, uh, well. Tastes great. Less filling, tastes great, less filling, let's fight about it. No, it tastes great and it's less filling. Great. That's wonderful. Um, so the, the, the fact is you can do jobs that have better gross profit per hour.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But they also probably have higher liability. Okay. So you gotta think about liability as a, as a part of that cost. The other thing is if you don't have gross margin, then you don't have gross profit per hour. So when I'm looking at, um, stuff, people say, what's one of your really K high KPIs? I'm looking at average repair order.
Cecil Bullard: Why do I look at average repair order? Well, if I have a high average repair order, that means that probably I'm bringing the right customers in. So it answers a marketing question. Uh, it means that probably I'm doing enough new clients to find work that because my old clients, we've already taken care of a lot of their work and there's not as much to do.
Cecil Bullard: So it answers a second marketing question. Um, one of the most important things I have in my shop around productivity is how are my inspections going? How, what are we finding and what are we selling? So if I have a higher average repair order, it means that I'm finding work and that I'm also selling work.
Cecil Bullard: So it answers, you know, three more questions that are very important questions. So if I look at my average repair order and I say, well, today I've got a $950 average repair order, I'm running a general repair shop. I go, wow, I've got great customers. My marketing seems to be working. I'm bringing the right clients in.
Cecil Bullard: Um. We must be inspecting cars pretty well, and we're building relationships with our clients because they're buying product from us. Okay? Right. And so, and then if I look and I say, well, my average repair is four 20. Ah, ah, now I have to bring in twice the cars at four 20 as I do at. And well, even more than twice than, than I do at nine 50.
Cecil Bullard: And it also means who am I bringing in? Are they buying? What percentage are they buying? All of a sudden those other five questions start coming up and I gotta go look and see how's my marketing working? What type of a customer's coming in? Am I bringing enough new people in? So there are numbers that you can use that are like, I don't know, they're the, the smoke before the fire.
Cecil Bullard: Right, right. Absolutely. And then there's the fire, like, holy smokes, if I don't have a good average repair order, I better understand why, and I better be able to go backwards to that step and fix that step so that my average repair order comes up. Otherwise, I won't have productivity. I won't have gross profit per hour because we're only doing half the work we should be doing.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, absolutely. And then I won't have profit at the end of the day. 
Lucas Underwood: I take it back to what we talked about a little bit ago is watching you analyze these shops, right? Yeah. 'cause we've been doing these really cool videos behind the scenes where we're talking about, Hey, uh, Cecil, this question came in, answer this question, right?
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. And so as we've been doing that, I watch you analyze the numbers from the shops and there's not one number that gives you the answer. Now, for me personally, now, when we're talking about GP per hour. I'll tell you where GP per hour comes in for me personally, is if I know what it costs to operate my shop and I know how much profit I want, I know that if I look at that ticket and it's below that number, then I'm not making money.
Lucas Underwood: Right? Yeah. And so for me it's, it's a go no go type of scenario. I have to be over this. But it's not the one metric that you can use to, to manage the shop. You have to use all of your metrics. 
Cecil Bullard: Let's say that I have a really good marketing process and I'm bringing in top level customers. Yeah. Okay. People that want their car taken care of.
Cecil Bullard: Right. All. And I have a good, uh, inspection process and I have a good estimating process. In other words, I have a parts matrix that my people follow 99% of the time. Right. And uh, I have a labor matrix that my people follow 99% of the time, et cetera. And so now I'm looking at that and do I really need to check margin once a day or once a week?
Cecil Bullard: No, because margins built in. Now at the end of the month, if I look at things and I go, Hey, I was supposed to have a 58% parts margin, but I only had a 52. Where did, where did my process break down? Right? Right. And so what I'm saying is, if your processes are good and you have, uh, good management and people are following those processes, then you're gonna have your margin, you're gonna have your profit, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yep. And, and you gotta understand the whole thing. So I'm talking to a guy yesterday on the phone, and we've got four technicians and they're doing 1.2 million, and their labor rate's $150 an hour. Yeah, well you're, you start doing the calculations and they're running at about 60% productivity, which is killing them.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And the guy's talking about hiring a Fifth Tech so they can get the workout. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: exactly. That's not your problem, right? Yeah. It's your processes and the fact that your people are not productive. If you don't solve that, you won't be profitable. So. 
Lucas Underwood: I heard a great, I, I gotta, I gotta say this because it's just the perfect time to say it.
Lucas Underwood: I heard, I heard somebody talking the other day and he was talking about corporate entities and he said, did you know that the majority of these giant corporate entities, the first thing that they do, doesn't necessarily mean they come in and raise the prices? They look for efficiency first, right? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood: And, and see we don't do that. And, and if you knew the number of shops that I talked to and they say, I am booked out for six weeks, and then you look at their financials and they didn't make any money, right? Right. There, there was no money there. And it's like, well, you, you're booked out for six weeks 'cause you're not moving any work.
Lucas Underwood: Right. Like the numbers going align with what you're saying. 
Cecil Bullard: But we've had this mentality in the industry that Clark County equals profit. That's, yeah. Activity crap equals profit and it's not true. Yeah, no, you could, I mean, if you look at the industry stats and I, I, I don't know what the recent, the most recent one is, but the average shop, I don't know, last year or year before, 4.2% net.
Cecil Bullard: All right. So that's crazy. And the average chop was somewhere around 800,000. So this guy's making, he's making a salary, right? Yeah. Uh, so he's got a job and he is getting paid. Right. Yeah. And his company provides him a truck and gas and a few toys, and every once in a while he can reach in and grab a hundred dollars if he wants to take his wife out to dinner or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Yeah. But profit wise for the company, they're not making what they should be making even close. Yeah. And, and so 32,000 on 800,000 in sales is what the average shop is making. Now my shops are making 20 to 25% net. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: so I do 800,000 and I'm taking, you know, 200,000 home. Uh, plus a salary and now that's worth doing, right?
Cecil Bullard: That's worth spending some of your life at. 
Lucas Underwood: Just today, my buddy John called me and he said, I need to talk to you. And I said, what John? He said, um, I got this job in the shop. He's a new shop owner and he's a single man operation. And he said, I know you've been fussing at me at these margins. And he said, I just want you to know.
Lucas Underwood: He said, I've got this alternator that 30% gross profit. And he said, it's got me real nervous. He said, I'm thinking about knocking it down. And I said, I tell you what I said, leave it at 30% because that's where the margin should have been for the price. All it was OE that he was dead on the money. Yeah. I said, tell you what, let's do this.
Lucas Underwood: I said, instead of giving him a discount, I said, take a hundred dollars bill outta your wallet. Give it to the man and say, Hey, this is for being a great client. He said, I ain't got a hundred dollars in my wallet. I said, okay, well go get a hundred dollars. He said, Luke, there's 
Cecil Bullard: on paper, because you'll never have a hundred dollars.
Cecil Bullard: Right? Already gave it away. 
Lucas Underwood: Um, next question here. Uh, it says, Hey guys, I love your stuff. It's helped me be a much better manager for my company. Can I ask how do we keep our parts margin with an extended warranty company? Or do we just not do that work? Okay. I'm sorry, Cecil. I gotta hijack here. I just don't work for extended warranty companies.
Lucas Underwood: I just don't like 'em. They take up a ton of time. They take up a ton of energy. I just say, I'm sorry, I, I've got plenty of other work. 
Cecil Bullard: What do you think I have? I have. I think I give the client a choice. And the choice is this. Okay, your extended warranty company is not gonna pay what we're gonna charge.
Cecil Bullard: Okay? Yeah, because they're trying to save every nickel they can. That's their job. They're not trying to do a great job on your car, give you a good warranty, a good quality component. They want it cheap because they wanna save money. So here's the option. The option is a. We don't do the job, you take it somewhere that will put a inferior part or accept whatever the warranty company gives them.
Cecil Bullard: Or option B is, the extended warranty is going to give you X towards your job, but you have a copay, you're gonna have a copay, and the option B is that you pay us, you know what's fair. So we can give you a great job and a, and a great part and stand behind it. I think you're, and most of my clients under that circumstance.
Cecil Bullard: Chose option B. Yep. Uh, to have us do the job. 
Lucas Underwood: Same here, and, and here was my thing with them, the real reason I quit using extended warranty companies is the time component. Yeah. 'cause we, we have so many cars and you're talking about an hour to two hours of, of time spent in there. So I 
Cecil Bullard: have a, I have a, I have a varying labor rate, so it's against the law technically for me to say I have a warranty rate that's a warranty rate and it's much higher.
Cecil Bullard: It's $50 an hour higher than any of my other rates. Right. That's against the law. I'm not supposed to do that. Okay. But I do have varying labor rates in my shop. So when I'm doing, I don't know, oil changes or cooling flushes, maybe I'm charging $120 an hour. When I'm doing heavy duty diagnostics, I might be charging $240 an hour.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. Correct. And, and all in between. Yeah. And that's how shops, that's, that's where we're moving if we're not all there yet. Yes, absolutely. And so now I tell my, my warranty company that here's the rate. So you are at my, my $240 an hour rate and I make up that time by having that rate that they are a part of that includes those types of jobs where there's a lot of research, a lot of time on the phones.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Uh, you know, a lot of trying to find the parts. And so, and I can completely, that's how I do it. 
Lucas Underwood: I completely agree. Very similar way to how I do things as well. And, and look, I think one of the issues, we talk about the pan full of oil on the eye. One of the things that I keep seeing happen is we do this over and over again.
Lucas Underwood: We, we get into these situations and we say, okay, well I'll cut the quality of my product. Well, I'll cut my price. I'll do all these things to make sure I get the job and to make the client happy and to do all this. But the problem is, is you just poured oil. Into the pan and put it on the fire. If you change your process, you break your process when you change it mid job.
Lucas Underwood: And so if you change it and you're doing these things that are different, you're still responsible for the quality of the repair. Just because the warranty company says, I don't wanna pay, that doesn't mean they're not coming back to you if something goes wrong. So, so keep that in mind. 
Cecil Bullard: We have a, we have a group here right now, and I went to dinner with a bunch of the guys, and one of the guys was sitting next to me who has a shop in North Carolina.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. And they do safety inspections in North Carolina at $13 and change. Yep. 13 Dictated by the state. Yep. Right. And that safety inspection to do it properly 20, 25 minutes. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: And they're gonna, I'm gonna get paid 13 something and I have to pay the state for the sticker and. If I do something wrong and the state catches me, it's a $10,000 fine.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Starts at 
Lucas Underwood: $10,000. 
Cecil Bullard: Okay, so, so my answer to that is North Carolina. Go screw yourself. I'm not doing safeties, and nobody else in the state should be doing safeties. And if every shop in the state said, we're not doing safeties at 13.95 because we can't make any money, in fact, I'm taking 25, 30, $40 outta my pocket and accepting all this liability.
Cecil Bullard: What if the state of North Carolina couldn't get a safety done because the industry said no. Exactly right. Exactly. And and the only guys that would do safeties are the guys that are working outta their houses that have no credibility whatsoever. Yep. If we did the same with warranty companies, I'm sorry, then the state would have to change the situation.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. All right. And, and so I'm, I'm Foreign association that has 40 to 80,000 members. 'cause there's 240,000 of us in this industry that starts to say, stop pushing us around. Mr. Government or Mr. State or whatever, because it ain't worth it. Yeah, absolutely. I agree. And then you're, I, I, I, I, there was a. A technician there also and he was like, yeah, it's $10,000.
Cecil Bullard: I said, how many $13 inspections you have to do to make up for one $10,000 fine. Right. Yeah, 
Lucas Underwood: absolutely. 
Cecil Bullard: You, you can't win. It's a no win situation. Exactly. You know what I like with no win situations. It's real. My choice is real simple. I don't play. 
Lucas Underwood: Exactly. And, and listen, you've said that a lot. I I've been talking about that a lot.
Lucas Underwood: At Cecil's Rules, everybody has to win, right? And if everybody can't win, we're not playing the game. Right. Uh, we'll go 
Cecil Bullard: play another 
Lucas Underwood: game. I'll get the oil off the fire and turn fire up. And now they popped up a question. I wanna go back to the other one that was asked, because I think that was a really important question.
Lucas Underwood: If we can find that other question, we'll get this one too. But it's, and, and I, I so connect with this since we just launched my shop and we're pushing hard socials, opening specials, replying in groups, going to events, even hosting our own, we offer everything from basic repair to full custom builds, but we're still low on cars.
Lucas Underwood: Some people assume we only do performance work. How can I better position the shop to bring both general repair and performance customers and just overall cars in general. Now market, market, 
Cecil Bullard: two different shops. Market differently. 
Lucas Underwood: I, I'm not gonna disagree, but I I, we've done a lot of videos talking about performance work.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And, and by the way, that's a different business than it's general repair. It absolutely, it's completely different business 
Lucas Underwood: and it can be a profitable business, but you need to understand it is a different business and it needs to be ran differently. And it is in a lot of ways, a labor of love. As opposed to auto repair.
Lucas Underwood: I, I was in No, it's not. 
Cecil Bullard: No it's not. No it's not. No it's not. Well it 
Lucas Underwood: was when they went into it, it 
Cecil Bullard: has to be about money. Baby changed. So otherwise that fire's going on that pot and I kept to keep putting the lid on it. So you're 
Lucas Underwood: exactly right. So that's where I started. And, and, and it was really that. A lot of those consumers knew what they wanted and they'd already looked up the prices and it was very difficult for me to, to be profitable doing that kind of work.
Lucas Underwood: I will tell you that the name of the shop really does matter to the people that will come into the shop and, and when you're first starting out, sometimes it takes time because you have to gain that reputation. You have to get the Google reviews, you have to get the Yelp. Reviews. You have to start getting your name out.
Lucas Underwood: And I really think that building relationship is the number one way to do that. Cecil, what do you say to 'em? 
Cecil Bullard: I was running, uh, I, I got hired to run two shops in Rancher, Bernardo, California. Okay. Uh, side by side. Uh, they shared eight bays in the middle. Uh, excuse me. They shared an office in the middle.
Cecil Bullard: There were four bays on each side. And, uh, it was being advertised as rancher, Bernardo, German, and Japanese auto care. And there was one door into the office and, uh, they were struggling for car count, struggling for a lot of things. So what did we do? We broke them apart. We put another two doors into the same office.
Cecil Bullard: So we advertised Rancho Bernardo, Japanese, and we advertised Rancho Bernardo German, and we went up, I don't know, I think initially 97 or 98%, and we got rid of one door to come in. Okay. Got it. And, and so the cool thing about the internet is that I only see kind of what you want me to see or what you allow me to see, so I can run, say, Cecil's, you know, high performance rebuilds or you know, uh, restorations shop.
Cecil Bullard: I can also run Cecil's, um, uh, maintenance and, and whatever shop and be seen as two different businesses because I'm really running two different businesses. And I would also tell you, you know, um. The marketing that I would do for high performance and the marketing I would do for general service and repair is two different types of marketing.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. All right. And, and so separate the, the marketing, separate the businesses out in the way that you charge. I mean, holy smokes, if I charge in a restoration shop, like I charge in a service shop, I'll go broke. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: absolutely. It, it, it doesn't work. In fact, I was having a conversation with one of my clients with Restoration Shop and we're about 10% low on productivity.
Cecil Bullard: We're at about 92%. We really want to be over a hundred percent. Okay. And we're building time and materials. A lot of the work is time and materials, and I'm like. We're 10% short. Here's what I want you to do. I want a 20%. Once the time and materials are done, I want a 21 per, I want a 20% charge on top of that time and materials so that the company makes the profit the company needs to make.
Cecil Bullard: So now that job, instead of being a $4,000 job, is now uh, $4,400. But so what The customer that's, that's doing restoration. Is is is not nickel and dimming you unless you're allowing them to nickel and dime you because they don't have that many options to do the work that you need done. Yeah, for sure.
Lucas Underwood: You're exactly right. Right. Now the next question, I feel like I'm being trolled here. Okay. This person says we've all made bad hires. What's your personal, I knew it was a mistake moment. I can't share mine. Okay. And how long did you take that? At this point, I'll give you one. 
Cecil Bullard: I'll give you one. I had an employee for seven years that from the start was not able to do their job and we kept changing the job, hoping we'd find a place 'cause it's just a nice person.
Lucas Underwood: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: And we finally turned after seven years of, you know, 70, 80,000 a year. Think about that. Half a million dollars. Yeah. We finally terminated that person. Got a company to come in, uh, as a, um, you know, um, we hired a company to come in and do that job. Yeah. Cost us 30% of what we were paying the other guy and we're getting results, 
Lucas Underwood: you know, look, I'll tell you my first one, um, I, this one I can share.
Lucas Underwood: Um, long story short, this guy comes to work for me. And I just knew he was gonna be the solution, right? And this was before I had ever hired the first business coach. And I knew that this was gonna solve all my business' problems, getting a good technician in there, be able to do this. And I had listened to what he said.
Lucas Underwood: And, and you know, I don't know if you know this, but not everybody tells the truth. When they're applying for a job or when they're interview, oh, come on. I'm just telling you. Like, they tell you you 
Cecil Bullard: their truth. 
Lucas Underwood: Exactly what they believe. Yeah. And, uh, so let's see, within the first week, this guy, the client's pulling in the parking lot, right?
Lucas Underwood: And, and it, they own a durmax. Chevrolet, 2,500, they passed their truck, and as, as the client's pulling in, he's doing a burnout, going past them, going the other direction. And I knew right then, like, this is not gonna work. I didn't fire him until he changed his ringtone. And this was six months later because the dude was so, I mean, he was abrasive and he was rough.
Lucas Underwood: I thought he was just gonna try and shoot me up if I, if I. Tried to fire him, right? Yeah. Just unbelievable human being. But I finally fired him when he changed the ringtone to, here comes the asshole for me. And so I said, you know, here we go. This is it. We'll just go ahead and call it over. And you know, he was so upset that I fired him.
Lucas Underwood: He could not understand why I let him go. I mean, after all, we were such good friends and it's just unbelievable. I would terminate him. 
Cecil Bullard: I think. Uh, we've all made mistakes. We, we, mm-hmm. The guys I know in this industry, 95% of them are just the salt of the earth and just the greatest people. Yeah. Um, there's a few I don't like imagine that.
Cecil Bullard: Um, but mostly I like 'em and I think they're great. And we think, man, this guy is such a nice guy, or this guy's so good at this, I, I can change 'em. I can fix him. You know? Yeah. And eventually what it comes down to is. They're not fixable. Right? Yeah. And, and so hopefully. Hopefully you change your interview process.
Cecil Bullard: So you, you know, you ask the question, Hey, how many assholes have you worked with? Oh my God, let me tell you about all the assholes I worked with. Yeah, exactly. Well, I don't wanna be the next one in the line. 
Lucas Underwood: The, the key is this is if they are toxic. In other words, if it, you know, you know this. There's a difference 
Cecil Bullard: between I'm not quite doing what I need to or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: And being toxic and poisonous. Yeah, 
Lucas Underwood: exactly. They don't align with the culture of the business. Yeah. And, and at the end of the day, listen, I, I, I'm gonna come back to Tim Kit, he always said, you promote what you permit and if this person isn't in alignment with who you are, is in alignment with what you do and you allow them to stay.
Lucas Underwood: It breeds toxicity. They're not happy, and all they see is that you are the problem. The shop is the problem, the business is the problem. 
Cecil Bullard: Think about your life experience and think about all the people that you've known or worked for who told a great story. Yeah, but never did a great job. Okay. Yeah, exactly.
Cecil Bullard: And all it does is create frustration and at some point you're just like, oh my God, stop talking because everything that comes outta your mouth is crap. Yeah. And, and so what I would tell, like the, the key to management, um, is do what you say and say what you do. Amen. And in, in fact, say less and do more.
Cecil Bullard: Exactly. Right. And, and, uh. 
Lucas Underwood: Yeah, that's, and, and, and here's the thing. True leadership is trust earned by repeated behaviors, right? Let's be real about that. One of the problems that I see is a lot of times, and, and I did not recognize this about myself, but for a while I was the toxic one, right? And I was the owner of the business and I was the problem.
Lucas Underwood: And until we recognize that 
Cecil Bullard: attitude, attitude, first brother, attitude first, I have to be. Like I, I tell this story in classes. It's if the IRS was gonna come lock my doors, do you know when my employees would know as the locks were being put on the doors? Other than that, everything's great. Everything's fantastic, and we're gonna do fantastic.
Cecil Bullard: Yep. You can't have people thinking, I need people thinking we're gonna succeed. We're gonna win this game. Yeah. Right. And if you think that way, y your odds of winning dramatically increase. And if you're toxic, your odds of poisoning everyone around you dramatically increase. Right. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and unfortunately, the people you're gonna poison first are the people you love the 
Cecil Bullard: most, 
Lucas Underwood: right?
Cecil Bullard: Well, the best, the, I have chased away some really, really great people. Mm-hmm. Because I was toxic. And it's a shame when you finally realize, oh my God, I'm, I've got to fire this guy who's a great tech, but now is just the most ornery, miserable SOB. And I'm the fault I let it happen. I allowed it to happen.
Cecil Bullard: I didn't manage this sooner, blah, blah, blah. Oh my God, it's my fault. Fire him anyway. You can't have toxicity around you. 
Lucas Underwood: Amen. I'm a small, new mobile business breaking even and want to know the next step. Do I buy new equipment and offer more services to existing clients or market to new clients? 
Cecil Bullard: So breaking even's a problem for me because breaking even is losing money.
Cecil Bullard: There's no breaking even. Alright, and so. I'm not gonna buy new equipment right now unless I can verify or justify that equipment to create a certain amount of money that would then put 20% net in my pocket. So for instance, Hey Cecil, uh, I wanna buy an alignment rack for my shop. And you look and they're doing.
Cecil Bullard: They, they got a hundred cars a month and they're doing three alignments and they're subbing them out. Right. And now they're gonna do alignments and they buy this alignment rack. 'cause if we do five or six or seven a week, we're gonna make money. The problem is they never do five or six or seven a week because they don't change their process of finding and selling alignments.
Cecil Bullard: Right. Yeah. Now you're into a piece of equipment, $80,000. Yeah. And you have a, I don't know, $2,500 a month, uh, lease payment or $3,000 a month. How many alignments do you have to do for sure to make that profitable for yourself and at what price? 
Lucas Underwood: You, you're so right, Cecil. And, and here's the thing, as I've seen so many guys do this.
Lucas Underwood: I'm guilty of doing it. I've seen a lot of others do this and, and it kind of comes back to some of this diagnostic slash testing training that we're, we're really pushing in the industry because we keep saying, Hey, we need to learn all this new testing. We need this new, great equipment. And I'm not disagreeing with that.
Lucas Underwood: I think we do, but if we're not charging for that, if we're not making money doing it, the real money's made in brake jobs. The real money's made in light services. It's not made in the big jobs. It's not made in the complex testing. It, it and it. Well, it can be. 
Cecil Bullard: It can be. It should be. That's, it should be, that's another, that's another podcast.
Cecil Bullard: It is. Which is, or another webinar, which, which basically is when you are doing whatever you're doing, how do you make that profitable? Exactly. A hundred percent. And that's why you have varying labor rates. And that's why when you're doing diag. If your labor rate is twice as much as your other labor rate, but, but you sure 
Lucas Underwood: don't go out and buy a $10,000 piece of equipment and not charge for it, right?
Lucas Underwood: Like, doesn't work well, no. 
Cecil Bullard: No, no. No, no, no. If you're in the automotive industry in the past, we certainly have gone out and bought lots of 10 and 25,000. I mean, I had one of the first $25,000 scopes that Sun made way back in the day, and we put that thing in the corner. I You just dated yourself, 
Lucas Underwood: brother.
Lucas Underwood: I mean, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah, brother. I know I did sh. You mean the white hair and the, and the white be enough? I mean, didn't date me right? 
Lucas Underwood: That was what, like 1932, something like that. 
Cecil Bullard: Oh, shut up. When I see you buddy. Going down, uh, 1980 something. Uh, I think first scope I bought 25 grand. Now we didn't answer the question.
Cecil Bullard: So right. First, let's make sure that what car count do I need? Yeah. And how many more do I need and or. Will the customers that I have pay a little bit more so that I have the profit that I need to buy that equipment or the profit that I need to market to gain better customers or more customers, right?
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. And so I, I don't want the person that comes here and asked the question, so, man, they went on a tangent. They don't really answer my question. I, I don't have enough information right here to tell you which one. I would tell you probably both. If I can justify the piece of equipment to create a, I've got a guy right now that they don't work on Audi, but they do a lot of BM, bmw, Mercedes work and they want to increase their business.
Cecil Bullard: Well, you might want to think about bringing an Audi tech in and and marketing to Audi because it might increase your business by 25 or 30%. Yep. And. Also marketing vehicle specific. So the way that marketing is changing, it's now about sentiment, and I don't know what the percentage is, but a high percentage of searches probably somewhere around 30 to 40% are now being done through uh, ai.
Cecil Bullard: And AI doesn't look at your business like Google looked at your business. Yeah, for sure. AI is, is looking at the sentiment of what your question is and trying to find the right answers. Yeah. And, and so now if I'm gonna market, I wanna market. Sentiment. We had a whole big meeting the other day here and we're talking about one of our people here who is uh uh, Ms.
Cecil Bullard: Michael Smith, who's the expert on m and a. And I'm like, we have not done a good enough job. 'cause there's people coming into our industry saying, well, I'm an expert on leadership. No education, no. No real experience, but they have a podcast. And now the expert on leadership. I'm trying to cut anybody down.
Cecil Bullard: That's not what I'm doing. Okay. But I have a guy that's got 40 plus years, uh, in m and a, creating m and a. Our company has not done a good enough job. Um, uh, marketing that person and their skillset. And, and, and then we started talking about AI because we did an AI search. Like, if I wanna sell my business, uh, who could, my automotive business, who can help me?
Cecil Bullard: And the first guy that popped up on AI was Michael Smith, and the second guy that popped up was Cecil Bullard. All right. And, and that's cool, but I wanna own. All of those questions on that AI's gonna get asked, and so we've made some shifts in our marketing because of the shifts that are happening in.
Lucas Underwood: Marketing. Well, you know, and, and we started hearing about some of this a few years back. We, we were at the Mars conference a few years back. Yeah. And that's where we started hearing about some of this way before it even got here. Um, and so I, I think that if you've not been to some type of marketing training now, look, I'm a car guy.
Lucas Underwood: I'm not gonna lie to you. I get bored with the marketing thing. It's just not what I enjoy. But when you go to a class like Mars, you know the, the conference Mars that the institute does, and you actually sit through some of that marketing training, holy cow, it is next level you, you begin to understand it in a different way.
Lucas Underwood: It's not the marketing that you thought it was. You know, we used to go knock on doors and go talk to people and carry the cards around. And I'm not saying that doesn't work. I'm just saying that the environment we're in is changing so fast. You need a hyper boost, if you will. You need a crash course really quickly to understand how to market your business.
Lucas Underwood: So I think Mars is a great option for somebody like this who's just starting out so they, they don't have to fake it till they make it in the marketing department. 
Cecil Bullard: You can game the system. Um, and there will be people that game the system, period. And we gamed Google Ads, frankly, and we gained ad words and we gamed a lot of things because we were looking ahead and we knew, or we suspected that, that it was moving in that direction.
Cecil Bullard: I, let me ask you a question, Lucas. You've known me and you've known the institute for a while. Yeah. A long time. When have we ever done anything? Only at the normal level. Never, never, never. And so this is not what people are thinking. It's not sit down and have a bunch of marketing companies try to sell me their marketing.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, this is, here's the future. Here's what we believe it looks like. And by the way, we've been pretty good at this for a long time, and here's how you can take advantage of that. And here's what you can do. Go home with, that's gonna help you to bring more quality people in your business more consistently.
Cecil Bullard: For sure. Now when's 
Lucas Underwood: it, when is the event 
Cecil Bullard: that, 
Lucas Underwood: is it coming up? I wanna say the September. We've got a producer, they're gonna put it at the bottom of the screen over here, right? Fifth or put up? Yeah. September 4th through sixth. There you go. There 
Cecil Bullard: you go. That's awesome. And, and there's still some seats.
Cecil Bullard: We'd love to, you know, fill it because we have the, and the other thing is, I know, I don't know, probably 95% of the marketing companies out there, and I know their strengths and weaknesses, and I try to attract the top 5%. And the top 5% are gonna be at the conference. Yep. We're not inviting everybody. That's not.
Cecil Bullard: It's not come and have us, oh, sell me your program. It's come and help me understand how, what I need to do to be successful in the future. Absolutely. And then if you, if you see somebody there that you like and you say, oh wow, they really knew what they were talking about. I'd like to do business with them.
Cecil Bullard: That's fantastic. But we don't do things at the institute. We, we do them differently than most other companies. Yeah. 
Lucas Underwood: Okay. Well, I know we're running out of time. Cecil, you got anything you wanna add? Anything you drop in at the end here? Anything you wanna share? 
Cecil Bullard: Well, we're gonna, we're gonna do this on a routine basis and we want to answer questions and be specific to those questions for sure.
Cecil Bullard: So if we didn't get to your question, you can, uh, uh, email that question in. Um, uh, um. You can hit Cecil at we are the institute.com. You can send 'em to me. Uh, we will put them on the list and we'll make sure that. When we have our next one, we get to your questions as quickly as we can and get the best answers that we can to your questions.
Cecil Bullard: Absolutely. 
Lucas Underwood: And, and we're gonna, you know, in some of these videos, if they, if they require a more detailed explanation, we're gonna sit down with Cecil and we're gonna make detailed explanations for some of these questions. And so those will be on the Changing The Industry podcast. You'll be able to see those.
Lucas Underwood: It's where we really dig in and begin to debrief and back away and get the, the, the core of the onion peeled back to where we can see exactly what's happening, understand the business, and, and may even look at some numbers and share some shop numbers and some stuff like that. So it should 
Cecil Bullard: never know.
Lucas Underwood: Baby. 
Cecil Bullard: That's 
Lucas Underwood: it. That's it. We're not sharing my numbers. Okay. We're not doing that, Cecil. Ah, we're not doing that. I can't do it. I'll, I'll try not, I'll try to hold back. That's it. You do pretty wells. Absolutely. Good. Well guys, thank you all so much for being here. I see a lot of names that I know and appreciate very much that you guys came and hung out with us and so I'm so excited to see all of you next time.
Lucas Underwood: Again, we're gonna be doing this more often, um, and it is a lot of fun for both of us. So thank you both so much. Uh, thank all of you so much, and uh, Cecil. Thank you for being here, man. Thank you for taking time outta your day. I know you're a busy dude, so it's phenomenal. No 
Cecil Bullard: worries. This is what I love to do the most to help job owners, so 
Lucas Underwood: Yes, sir.
Lucas Underwood: Absolutely. 
Lucas Underwood: Well, thank.

134 - Rehearse to Win: The Secret to Service Advisor Confidence

134 - Rehearse to Win: The Secret to Service Advisor Confidence
June 23, 2025 - 00:39:59
 
Show Summary:
Recorded at the Institute Summit 2025, this episode features brothers Jason and Patrick Brennan in a powerful conversation on leadership, innovation, and growth in the automotive industry. Jason emphasizes redefining training through real-world rehearsal practice for service advisors and technicians, and using “education” language to promote a culture of ongoing development. Patrick brings his marketing expertise to the table, stressing the importance of reputation management and direct response strategies for businesses. Together, they explore how strong leadership, peer networking, and a healthy company culture attract talent and fuel long-term success.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Patrick and Jason Brennan, Fine Tune Auto Service
 
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction (00:00:00)Transition from Plumbing to Automotive (00:02:05)Customer Service and Service Advisor Training (00:03:01)Training vs. Education in the Industry (00:05:15)Reputation Management (00:07:58)Daily Training and Rehearsal Practices (00:09:28)Improvements from Training and Peer Critique (00:12:17)Team Building and Individual Improvement (00:14:08)Teaching as Mastery and Knowledge Sharing (00:22:12)Defining Success and Perseverance (00:23:08)Peer Review and Networking Groups (00:25:16)Innovation and Customization in Business (00:29:36)Attracting and Hiring Smart People (00:30:05)Marketing Strategies for Shops (00:31:42)Organic Social Media and Community Building (00:33:32)Work-Life Balance and Turning Points (00:34:10)Joining Peer Groups and Business Turnaround (00:35:36)Leadership Development and Delegation (00:37:07)Closing Reflections and Family Involvement (00:38:05)
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everybody, it's Carm Caprio Remarkable Results Radio. It's another Town Hall Academy. We are at the Institute Summit in Amelia Island, Florida. Okay, so I left Buffalo with four feet of snow and I came down here and of course it snowed last night. No it didn't.
Carm Capriotto: I'm only kidding what beautiful weather going on here. And we're so happy to be here at the Institute Summit. We're here February 6th through ninth recording this, so whenever you hear it, you'll know that it was a while back. Lots of stuff going on here. The theme is being stand out. And a lot of innovation being discussed, so we're really happy to be here.
Carm Capriotto: But before we get going, couple of great words from our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold certified program. This program is for the best of the best who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers.
Carm Capriotto: Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop. Hey, let's face it. Your shop management system is the most critical tool in your shop, and Napa Tracks will move your shop into the SMS Fastlane with onsite training, six days a week. Support and local representation.
Carm Capriotto: Find NAPA tracks on the web at N-A-R-A-C s.com. I have a great team here today. I got Jason Brennan from Fine Tune Auto. Hi Jason. How you doing? I am great sir. How's business?
Jason Brennan: Going well, thank you. 
Carm Capriotto: And you're here to what? Uh, hang out, learn, talk to your peers.
Jason Brennan: All the above. 
Carm Capriotto: Are you in a special group? 
Jason Brennan: I'm in the institute.
Jason Brennan: G. P. G Group. Three. 
Carm Capriotto: Cool. Group three. Best one. And that's the thing I love about the institute's groups. There's a little bit of a rivalry there, isn't there? You know Your brother's here with you? Patrick Brennan. Hi Patrick. How you doing? Good. You are not in the business, are you? I'm not. And we convinced him to come on because I think he may have some very interesting things to say.
Carm Capriotto: I think he will. 'cause I know he helps you a lot in the business. One of the things that I found fascinating about you guys, or especially the story you told me about the family plumbing business. So you were a family plumbing business, and what I wanna know is how did it become automotive? 
Jason Brennan: That's a good question.
Jason Brennan: I don't know if it was just that I, you know, I did so much plumbing growing up. I was already tired of it by the time I started my career or what it was. I don't know. But automotive, I, you know, that's a good question. We've talked before I started out. Working on lawnmowers and yeah, whatever. I was always just taking things apart and that kind of just naturally progressed into working on cars.
Jason Brennan: I was a technician, so got into the automotive business, but I don't think I would've had the fortitude or the courage to do it if I hadn't grown up. You know? It certainly had helped to grow up in a household. Where, you know, family, business and a, a service business was the environment that I grew up around and in 
Carm Capriotto: to me today.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, there's a lot of discussion out there about excellent customer service. If you forget about the customer, you must well forget about your business. 
Jason Brennan: Absolutely. 
Carm Capriotto: I don't know if we're getting enough customer service training, and I don't mean. Here's how you do it, but the service advisors at our counter today, I think it's the most considered educational series that I have seen anywhere.
Carm Capriotto: Every coaching company is including the institute. They've got a great focus on that front counter and that customer experience. 
Jason Brennan: I agree. They need to, they're service professionals. This isn't a job. And probably never should have been a job where, well, since I know how to fix cars, I'll just go up and you know, maybe I'll write service and I'll advise customers.
Jason Brennan: Can you explain to them the workings, the details of how the car works, why you should or shouldn't do the repair? Maybe. But it is a separate profession. You have to understand as a service advisor, those people have to understand sales. They have to understand customer service and they have to understand enough about the product that they're selling or recommending, and they have to understand all those things.
Jason Brennan: And then if they're gonna be a store manager, they need to understand business too. So it's a lot of stuff. 
Carm Capriotto: I'm curious, Jason, do they need to know more about themselves also? Because if you don't understand who you are and how you communicate, I think it's awfully tough to have a, I mean, well, it's my way or the highway kind of thing.
Carm Capriotto: There's gotta be flexibility built into building relationships. 
Jason Brennan: I would say yes they do, because you know, a lot of people just have a naturally good communication style and ability. But let's face it, some of us don't. And so my natural style might not be the right style. To be communicating to a customer with how'd you survive all these years?
Jason Brennan: So I know it's, I don't know, 
Carm Capriotto: it just happened. They loved you for some reason and they kept coming back. 
Jason Brennan: No, I actually, I did, I took service advisor training when I wrote service, of course. And that helped. So that's great. By the way, I needed it. It is great. And if I hadn't done it, I wouldn't be here. 
Carm Capriotto: You know, for you to, to realize this is a weakness, I may have to do something to fix that, or can I get better?
Carm Capriotto: And I'm on this soapbox of late, you know, this whole language shift thing that's going on in my world that I'm doing keynotes on. One of the most important things is the word removing the word training Jason, and making it the word education. Hmm. Because we train dogs, but we educate people and we go to places to learn.
Carm Capriotto: And there's an educator in, in the room. What are your thoughts on that? 
Jason Brennan: I think that's right. Never thought of it that way, but that's true. 
Carm Capriotto: So if you sit down with your people, you've got this continuing education program for them, I'm gonna send you off on a great training program so when you come back, you'll be able to fetch the ball really well.
Carm Capriotto: I'm really being facetious and I'm really kind of kidding here. Right. But it just hit me so hard. As you know, the Super Bowl is being played in a couple of days from recording this. And I think about athletes, you know, going to training, doing training. And why are we calling what we're doing training.
Carm Capriotto: It's one of those lazy words that has crept into our industry, and I think in order to lift even telling our customers, listen, our guys have gone through a continuous education program. In fact, they get 40 to 50 hours a year. I think it's important for the client. To know what we invest. Well, why do you charge so much?
Carm Capriotto: We don't need to give them the litany of it, but I don't know if you know, but we send all our people to, you know, we're, we're constantly educating them about what, do you have any idea what that computer is on four wheels and. How it works. That's why you're here. Mm-hmm. All that stuff. And I think it could be incorporated into marketing.
Carm Capriotto: And Patrick, I know that's what you're helping your brother do. Talk to me about that. 
Patrick Brennan: Yeah. Well, I have a background in home services and I kind of grew up in the home service business. Wait a minute, does this anything to 
Carm Capriotto: do 
Patrick Brennan: with plumbing? Yes. Air conditioning and plumbing. Okay. That's kind of my background.
Patrick Brennan: But in my career there, I, uh, helped form our marketing budgets across a big business. So. I learned a lot there and that's kind of, Jay bounces ideas off of me and I bounce ideas off of him and, but I like what you said about training and education. To me, training sounds. Like it's not permanent, and education to me is an ongoing, continuous thing.
Carm Capriotto: I love that. 
Patrick Brennan: I don't know. That's what I think about when I think of those two words. Well, 
Carm Capriotto: thank you for helping with that because the more I talk to people, we've been gone for almost 10 days on a road trip. In talking to so many people and I, I've occasionally been known to come here. I have an idea, I wanna run by you, but thank you for that.
Carm Capriotto: Some things that you're helping Jason with, you know, you say he to his ideas back and forth. What's a recent one that you were able to. Use of your brothers an idea. 
Jason Brennan: The most recent thing we've been working on is reputation management. Ooh. So, I mean, we've been talking about it for years, but Patrick actually already had a software platform.
Jason Brennan: He does all kinds of stuff. We don't have time to even talk about all the stuff that he's involved in. But one of the things is that he is doing reputation management for me. And built a software and him and I worked together on a word tracks or a script, whatever you wanna call it, things to say to customers that let them know we would appreciate them giving us a review.
Jason Brennan: Whatever it is, just be honest, give us a review. And the software sends them a reminder and then they give us reviews. We're able to get more reviews, and that's, you know, part of our reputation. 
Carm Capriotto: I think this is huge. Yeah. A reputation management piece of software and using the words, is it written word, typed words, electronic words, or is it the words that we are helping our service advisors say?
Patrick Brennan: I can speak to that a little bit. It's mainly like the surface advisors, the people who interact with the customers. They know our system is gonna send out a request for feedback to customers and to every customer. Now that they know that that's gonna happen, they kind of prime the customers before they know they're gonna get a request for the feedback on the service.
Carm Capriotto: Do you educate them on that? I mean, how you coach them, you rehearse that 
Jason Brennan: you actually Yes, and that it, rehearse is a good word. I think of rehearsal as a format. I think of that as training, so I would think. Education is, okay, I'm gonna go learn about a topic. Mm-hmm. I'm gonna understand it now and I know the theory.
Jason Brennan: And then training is repeating that, you know, repeating those words you wanna memorize or that process that you wanna follow or whatever it is. That's, so we do training. Our service staff do training every morning from seven 30 to 7 45. So if you had that up, that's a lot of hours a year. And they do training with each other.
Jason Brennan: And then on Fridays. We'll do a Google meet. I'm usually there and all of them. So there's currently six counter people and myself, and then we'll take turns hosting that meeting. So whatever we've been training on, just like a sports team that re runs, plays over over. That's how you get good at it. Yeah.
Jason Brennan: So we're getting good at it, we're practicing it, and so it becomes second nature and we could just do it on the spot and we could focus on the customer. Not having to think about what process am I supposed to do right now? What am I supposed to say? Oh yeah, it was that. And then, you know, because when you get busy, you know, sometimes it's like juggling chainsaws.
Jason Brennan: I stole that phrase from one of my store manager managers. I thought it was funny, but it's kind of true. So those things need to be second nature. 
Carm Capriotto: I fallen in love with what you just said. First of all, thanks Carm education is the right thing to do, but when we have to make sure we solidify. The process, the system, the greetings, the everything in the business.
Carm Capriotto: We're gonna go train. I love it. Seven 30 to 7 45. We train on service advising. Give me an idea of what they cover, what they do. 
Jason Brennan: It could be anything that we need to be good at, that we do a lot. So it could be. Listening. One example would be listening to plane, back phone calls. How did we handle this phone call?
Jason Brennan: Let's listen to it. Let's talk about it. 
Carm Capriotto: Is it public? Everyone gets a chance to listen to each other's calls. 
Jason Brennan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, in each store it'll be, you know, the two counter people, they'll listen to each other's calls together. Okay. And then critique it. You know, the once a week meeting that we're doing, it'll be.
Jason Brennan: One shop's turn to host and they'll play a call over the meeting and then everybody gets to critique it. So it could be phone calls, it could be, let's talk about this process for reviews. You know, this reputation management. How are we doing it? Let's talk about our inspection process. How do we do that?
Jason Brennan: What kind of challenges did we have last week? What good things did we have last week? KPIs, you know, 
Carm Capriotto: I'm fascinated by your ROI and chime in anytime, Patrick. You're doing all of this, you're listening to each other's calls, you are motivating someone to maybe possibly get better. I could have done that.
Carm Capriotto: Have you seen a direct reflection in your sales growth because of this? 
Jason Brennan: Absolutely. Yeah. We've added a third store in the last year, so it's hard to say, you know what the true growth would've been if we had three established stores. What I have for sure, what I can say I have noticed is I've noticed improvements.
Jason Brennan: Improvements where you mentioned the people's natural speaking style or something. I've noticed improvements in the way that we communicate with customers because I can listen to calls and I can be there in the shops and observe what's going on. And noticed an I improving in people's 
Carm Capriotto: confidence. 
Jason Brennan: Yeah.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. Confidence and willingness to learn. At first, it's a little awkward. Jason comes in and goes, Hey, guess what? We're gonna play these calls that you screwed up on. So try to find your worst ones and then put 'em. That's what I want you to do. Find your worst ones. 'cause it's great to congratulate each other for the good ones, but we want to solve problems for you and figure out where we can improve.
Jason Brennan: We're always trying to be the best, so do that. There were a bunch of good calls on those Zoom meet or those Google meets, but, and one guy who I'm thinking of who has had, I think, the biggest improvement from where he started. Played some pretty bad calls and then he said, you know, I know I screwed these up.
Jason Brennan: That's what we're supposed to do here, is to get better. We're supposed to be vulnerable and figure out, say, Hey, this is one I'm having a struggle with. So I've seen huge improvements by doing that. 
Carm Capriotto: Is your software, does any AI on your. Calls 
Jason Brennan: We do. I haven't tried it yet. I have inbounds. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, I've seen the dashboard for inbound.
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. And David Boyd's a great guy and he is, he's a sponsor on our network. When I saw the percentage of talking about tires, hey, you guys are talking about tires. We never sell tires. It's amazing how that can happen. The thing that I love about our discussion. Is that every morning we're working with the team for personal improvement.
Jason Brennan: Exactly. That kind of ties in. What I really liked about this summit so far was Dan's comment about teams and, 'cause we're working on with our managers, especially, we're starting with managers and we're gonna, you know, roll it out to everybody. We're working on figuring out what it takes to put together a good team and have a cohesive team, and something Dan said.
Jason Brennan: Yesterday was that it's individuals on the team are what's gonna ultimately make the difference between success and failure. People make the team succeed, the team's, the team, and everybody fails or succeeds together, but it's individuals who make that happen. So we do need to work on individual personal improvement to make the team what it needs to be.
Carm Capriotto: It's amazing. When you think about teams, and I love your analogy about each individual is an individual. You're getting ready to do a timing job and you know that the tools you need to lay out, they all do a different thing. They all have their, their strength in the job. And when we put teams together, sometimes there's a broken tool.
Jason Brennan: Yeah, there could be. And you know, if I was on a team, I am on a team, I'm kinda like the coach of three teams, sort of, if you will, with the three separate shops to count out and then, or maybe the owner and the managers or the coaches. I don't know what the real deal is with that, but if there's somebody that's either not the right fit for the team or not performing, I know I wouldn't wanna be that person, 
Carm Capriotto: but that's you.
Carm Capriotto: That's you, Jason. There are some people that are just willing to just go down the highway, get on the bus and go for the ride. 
Patrick Brennan: I think his process, uh, every morning training and rehearsing is really valuable because you cannot quickly identify individuals who are just not gonna cut it on your team. If you're doing this very regularly and hopefully you're doing everything you can, that's what that provides as well too.
Patrick Brennan: And the education to me is more the why. You know, you understand the fundamental, the training, like Jason said, is like the rehearsing and just. Building the confidence 
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Carm Capriotto: It is such a strong thing. I gotta do more on this. The training is really rehearsing. Let's get the word training away. Let's talk about education. Again, if a technology specialist in the bays goes to a scope and he comes back and he doesn't use what he learned, and so maybe we then say, go and train on what you learned or start rehearsing what your latest educational class was, 
Jason Brennan: right.
Jason Brennan: Go rehearse it. It's a good example with technicians. I think they tend to naturally know that they need to do that. When I was a tech, I remember going to a John Thornton misfire class. This is probably like in the, in the early two thousands, 90% of it was over my head and I was thinking I had just opened my shop and I came from several different places, but I never really got into diagnostics that heavily.
Jason Brennan: And then I learned all these new things that I didn't know, found out about these things I didn't know. Took a bunch of notes and I thought, man, am I ever gonna be able to do this? I don't know. There's nobody else that works here. It's just me. How am I gonna learn this? And when I put it into practice was really when I learned it.
Jason Brennan: It might have taken me longer, I might not have have been able to charge people for all the time I spent on it. But that was the cost of training to me, is the extra time I had to stay after work and learn or whatever I had to do. And we have technicians that do the same thing. The ones who are really committed to learning higher level technology, diagnosis, and you know, programming or whatever it is they're doing.
Jason Brennan: Even mechanical stuff. They'll often, I'll find out that they got together with some other techs, you know, other techs in the industry on a Saturday and took a bunch of waveforms or something and put 'em, then shared 'em all and came back to their shops with a mental tool set and some, you know, computer tools.
Jason Brennan: To be able to do their job effectively and efficiently. They devoted to the training that allowed them to show up to work with a valuable skillset that they can exchange for a really good paycheck and doing a good work. 
Carm Capriotto: That's a great story. That's pure geek. 
Jason Brennan: Oh, 
Carm Capriotto: sure. Yeah. When these guys get together, I love that.
Carm Capriotto: Wow. You talk about John Thornton, one of our best industry trainers to come back from one of his classes and be so humble. It's the old story. I don't know what I don't know. Right. Yeah. I just don't know. Yeah. 
Patrick Brennan: A lot of times that's what training and education is, is figuring out how little you know. I know.
Carm Capriotto: And then take that. And say, I gotta do more, or I gotta dig in or I've gotta find another class. 'cause a lot of times you go to the same class, different trainer, or even the same trainer a year ago, and you test, let me see, hmm. One to 10. I actually knew 4% or 40% of what I didn't the last time. And I still have more to go.
Carm Capriotto: And I think you take the education you get, you go back, you use it, you rehearse with it, you put it to real good usage. And I've always said that when you go to a seminar, I've said this for years and I've known it myself, when you go and learn something. If you can come back and bring that to your people and you teach, even if you go to one of your people, you sent them to vision to do a couple of technology classes and they came back, then let them teach for one hour what they learned, the teaching experience solidifies a lot of what they learned because they were, were able to respeak it.
Patrick Brennan: Absolutely. 
Jason Brennan: I agree. I think that's one of the best ways to master. A topic or a skill is, you know, whatever a profession is to teach it. You'll get asked questions that you never thought of making things you never thought of before, right? Then you have to figure it out, so you're really learning as you're teaching.
Carm Capriotto: What makes you really successful? 
Jason Brennan: I don't know. When I get there, I'll let you know what it was. Pick 
Carm Capriotto: one. 
Jason Brennan: I no. That success. Pick one of the greatest 
Carm Capriotto: traits that you have that you say, I just can't believe this is working so well for me. 
Jason Brennan: What makes us successful as a company and gives me person the most amount of personal satisfaction has changed over the years.
Jason Brennan: It used to be a hard diagnostic challenge or something on a car. Now, I think what makes us successful is the effort that the people who work for us put in toward fulfilling our mission. When someone, you know in what gives me, you know, satisfaction about what I do now, making a good profit is always important so we can have the right resources to continue doing what we're doing and everybody else does too.
Jason Brennan: And, but seeing people succeed and make improvements and achieve the highest level that they can in their career, achieving their goals, being a part of that is what? Makes me feel like I'm being successful. 
Carm Capriotto: 10 years ago, you would've never felt that thought that 
Jason Brennan: I don't think I would've 
Carm Capriotto: because you never got out of the bays.
Carm Capriotto: Right. 
Patrick Brennan: I'll tell you what I think, one thing I think made Jay so successful is perseverance. If I had to say one thing, I mean, yeah, there were probably a a hundred times I'm on the phone with him and he's like, what the hell do I do? I, and if you don't mind me telling this story, one time he called me and he's like, I had to sell my snowmobiles.
Patrick Brennan: I had to sell something, this and that to make payroll this year. And he's like, I got. Some cash in the drawer at home and that's all I got left and he's like, I'm this close to going out of business, but he's far from that now, and because he stuck with it, I think that's what's made him successful. 
Jason Brennan: I love that story.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. I've been there, you know, a couple of times. So that was actually around the time that I joined the, what was RLO training's, bottom Line Impact Groups. Sure. Now the institute, so, um, 
Carm Capriotto: BLIG. Mm-hmm. That was a great group. Yeah. Did you come over to the institute after Cecil bought the RLO? 
Jason Brennan: Yeah, they kept all the groups intact.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. So they're really still the same. Some of the same core people are still with those groups. Yeah. So the group three is still the same, some of the same people. Yeah. Some new guys. Some new people. So 
Carm Capriotto: I heard you just had a peer review. GPG. 
Jason Brennan: We hosted a meeting. Yeah. Okay. We hosted a group meeting. You hosted a group meeting.
Jason Brennan: Right. So our group meetings, most of 'em are hosted at a shop or by a shop. So 
Carm Capriotto: you hosted? 
Jason Brennan: We hosted, but they didn't review your place did. Oh, they did? Yeah. Ah, that's what, I guess what I'm need it is a peer review. Okay. I just didn't think of it that. How'd it go? It went pretty well. Did you work 
Carm Capriotto: hard in prep for it or they just said, come on in, I'm perfect.
Jason Brennan: No, we did a lot of upfront, you know, the low hanging fruit, you know, I've been in the group long enough that I know to have like fire extinguisher signs and don't have the first aid kit in the bathroom and to make sure you have coat hooks and those kind of things, you know, just don't I. 'cause I didn't want, yeah, 
Patrick Brennan: pro tips.
Jason Brennan: Pro tips. I didn't want it to be a waste of people's time and just go there and find all this stuff that I already know I should have had done. So tried to, and that's how I'm gonna get the most value out of it, is to have them find, I wanted them to dig deep and find problems. Find room for improvement.
Jason Brennan: Problems are opportunities. Yeah. So, and they did so working. So you took care 
Carm Capriotto: of the fluff that you didn't want them to find the easy Yeah, the, I walked by it every day. I'm not sure why for the last four years, but I've never fixed that. Right now I've done it. 'cause I don't want them to pick on me. Go deep.
Jason Brennan: Right. That was our approach and we did, the manager was involved in that meeting and they came to the shop. Other business owners, 
Carm Capriotto: I've watched it happen. I've actually watched a GPG group do a peer review on a shop. And it was exciting to be there. I thought there was a lot of fun going on. They found a lot of stuff, but the owner had a chance to say confession to himself for almost six months before and clean and paint the ceiling and get new lights and all this stuff.
Carm Capriotto: And he says, I always wanted to do this. There's nothing like the people that you work closely with and that's why I'm such a believer in networking groups or peer groups like they have here at the institute. To rock your socks, to make some profound changes to let your conscious boil up and say, yeah, coulda, woulda, shoulda, gotta right.
Patrick Brennan: So it is kinda like when you're, you know, you're having guests over the house, you don't clean the house so well until the guests come over and it's similar. It's like your business, you know, you're gonna prepare for that. So I do see a lot of value in that deep cleaning. Exactly. 
Jason Brennan: Yeah. And they did a good job with that, you know, with all that stuff.
Jason Brennan: So I was proud of them. Yeah. I like the peer group process because it's more of a peer group, it's less of somebody standing there telling you things. We'll get information from the Institute, but I think we get just as much information from each other than we do from Aaron Woods, and he's a great facilitator.
Jason Brennan: And I've looked into, over the years, I've looked into probably all the different coaching or consulting groups that there are. This one was the most customizable meaning. It was up to me. I'd be held accountable by my peers for the results that I say that I want to get. Of course, they're gonna help me to figure out what that should look like, but if I say, well, I'm targeting a 20% net profit and these other KPIs, and also I want good employee retention, of course, and this many customers, this many cars per month, et cetera, it's me making those commitments.
Jason Brennan: To my peers and to the facilitator and how I do it. It's just up to me. Nobody's gonna tell me, well, you have to do this process this way. That might not work for me. I probably shouldn't deviate from it if I don't know anything else to do. But I wanted the flexibility to be able to customize my auto repair business to serve the customers the best possible way that it can.
Jason Brennan: You know, and we're not robots. I don't treat my employees like robots. We do have certain things we have to do. And I have certain things I always have to do, but other than that, it's, you know, us as people figuring out, using our brains and being smart about things and figuring out how we want to do it.
Jason Brennan: And that's what I think you need to have that in order for a business to be truly unique in the marketplace and have competitive advantages. 'cause there has to be innovation. If you just follow a rigorous set process all the time and it has to be that way and everybody's doing it that way, then we're just.
Jason Brennan: Too similar to, I think like a box store model or something, rather than When 
Carm Capriotto: you say innovation, Jason, do you mean innovation in leadership? Innovation in being able to retain and hire innovation in policies, or you're talking about innovation in the shop with technology? 
Jason Brennan: I would say all of it. Yeah. You know, just anything.
Jason Brennan: But when people are allowed to think for themselves, they might have a set of rules to follow, but when you hire smart people and they're allowed to think for themselves. And the leadership listens to those people, big improvements can happen. 
Carm Capriotto: How do you hire smart people? Help me. 
Jason Brennan: That's a good question.
Jason Brennan: First of all, I think you have to have a business that attracts those kind of people. The smart people are looking to work for good businesses because they're smart enough to figure out this place seems like they provide a good product to customers. And I'm smart enough to figure out that that's what businesses do mainly.
Jason Brennan: And they're probably also gonna be able to provide a good workplace for me. And have the revenue stream to pay me well for my knowledge. So I'm gonna work there. So I think, and, and the culture's good. It seems like when I walk in there, or I drove, I, I've had technicians tell me, they drove by my shop and looked at our guru reviews and all that stuff to see and they went in, or you know, kinda walked around just to see if everybody was smiling and telling jokes or if it was completely silent.
Jason Brennan: And all they heard was tools. That was part of their decision making process on where to work. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, and it goes back to this whole reputation management thing, Patrick. I think not only is the reputation management important to the client. It really has so much to do with being able to attract great people.
Patrick Brennan: It's a recruiting tool. Absolutely. You know, you're, everybody knows intuitively your reputation matters, right? You are your reputation. You wanna be proud of that at the end of the day, like, you know, it's a public thing when it's reputation management. So yeah, definitely recruiting tool. 
Carm Capriotto: Home services, that's what you do.
Carm Capriotto: What is it exactly? 
Patrick Brennan: Well, I came up in that industry. I'm not in the industry anymore. I focus on helping local service companies with marketing, but I kind of grew up in the air conditioning and plumbing. Industry and I had a lot of experience with the marketing and the operations side of the business.
Carm Capriotto: What kind of marketing do shops have to do? All of it. I, I knew the answer to that. It 
Patrick Brennan: needs, yeah, you need a well-rounded approach. 
Carm Capriotto: So what you talking about internet, you're talking about social media, we're talking about video. Help me. 
Patrick Brennan: Well, as much as you can afford to do, but my advice is to usually small businesses is start with reputation management.
Patrick Brennan: That should be your baseline. If you're gonna spend $1 on marketing. Spend it on reputation and you're talking 
Carm Capriotto: about getting reviews. 
Patrick Brennan: Getting reviews, okay. Improve your public review profile. After that, I recommend direct response marketing, whatever's the highest ROI for you. I wouldn't focus on social media or branding until you have a big budget.
Carm Capriotto: Really? What are you expecting? Somebody that has a big budget would spend on social media. 
Patrick Brennan: That's a good question for automotive shops, a three store chain 
Carm Capriotto: like Jason. Well, 
Jason Brennan: that's, that's a good question. Yeah. We're not doing a very good job with our social media, 
Carm Capriotto: but if you're growing, do you need it? 
Jason Brennan: I think it can be done if the owner or someone, a spouse or somebody in the company.
Jason Brennan: Wants to run it themselves, they can be pretty effective without any cost. 
Jason Brennan: Mm-hmm. 
Jason Brennan: One of our shops, the manager's spouse is doing it for us just 'cause she likes to do it and he said, Hey, can I have Jen do our Facebook page? She's really good at that. I said, sure. We're not doing much with it anyway. Go have at it.
Jason Brennan: Just put good stuff on there and. It's gotten a lot of followers. I don't know how to track it with a, a metric kind of A-A-K-P-I and numbers kind of guy, so I don't know how to track it. So if I was paying somebody to do it, I wouldn't know, you know, what I was looking for anyway. Not my strong point. I don't know what I should, you know, if I was gonna hire a company to do it and I don't want it to be cookie cutter, 'cause I've tried to do that before where it's just all the same standard stuff on there all the time.
Jason Brennan: Right. That I don't think people are really interested in. 
Carm Capriotto: Hire. Just hire Patrick. 
Patrick Brennan: No, actually I will actually say the best social media that I've seen is the most genuine. Yeah. And that comes from within the company because no company you hire can have the same voice or promote your business like you do.
Patrick Brennan: And I think what he's doing is great. The best social media is like posting pictures of the team. 
Carm Capriotto: Organic. 
Patrick Brennan: Yeah, organic. That's a good way to put it. You know, somebody's birthday, it's so and so's birthday today or so and so volunteers at this church over here and they did this event. That's a community building and actually it's also a recruiting tool.
Patrick Brennan: You know, your social media outlets are recruiting tools, and I think that's the best way to do social media. As a smaller, medium sized business, 
Carm Capriotto: we can go a million different places. Are you happy with what you're getting outta life right now, Jason? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There were times you were worried, obviously we've heard the story.
Jason Brennan: Yeah, there were times I was worried. There were times I was working way too many hours. 80 a hundred hour weeks were normal for years. 
Carm Capriotto: Call that being stuck in a hobby. I'm sorry, I'm just gonna say that you were in total struggle mode. Oh yeah. I'm such a big fan of coaches and networking groups because I really do think if you fix your attitude that I need help, I'm not Mr.
Carm Capriotto: Know-it-all that, oh, I wanted to prove to the world that I can do it. But you don't really notice that you're not. Yeah, you are, but you don't wanna admit it. A lot of people, you know, their egos are get in the way. Take us to the day that you said, listen, I gotta turn my life around. Right. And my business, 
Jason Brennan: there's kind of two different times for two different types of turning it around.
Jason Brennan: The financial, I knew I couldn't operate at a loss or a break even, or whatever wasn't gonna work. I wasn't gonna be allowed to continue operating if I didn't make a profit. 
Carm Capriotto: You were done. So 
Jason Brennan: yeah, I was almost done a couple times and just, I just somehow, by the grace of God or or willpower and whatever, all those things, and talking to people.
Jason Brennan: Talking it through with, you know, that's one of the things I do with my brother Pat, is just talk with him. The whole sounding board thing. He's just a smart guy. So yeah. Anyway, talk about that. Talk with a bunch of smart people. Get their ideas, but hey, how do you think I can get out of this? I started that with RLO.
Jason Brennan: Yeah. Which is now the institute in 2011. In 2011, and John Effler was working there was the facilitator, 
Carm Capriotto: great group, great facilitator. And did you come out of those first couple of meetings saying, whoa, this is gonna be good, or, I have a lot of work to do? 
Jason Brennan: Both. I came out relieved because I thought, okay, I think I found some of the answers.
Jason Brennan: I was looking for some of the solutions. To my problems. I know what I need to do now what? That's what I needed. I just needed to know. Jason, 
Carm Capriotto: what did it take for you to do the work this, you know, what kind of flu did you have to do in your world? 
Jason Brennan: I had to slowly start working on the business and not so much on cars, so I was still working in the business, but on different things.
Jason Brennan: I needed to increase my car count. At the time it was really low. I wasn't in a that shop. Still there doing very well now. In Lansing, but we didn't have enough cars to work on. It wasn't 'cause we weren't doing good work. We were do fixing cars right all the time with a great warranty to not enough vehicles to work on.
Jason Brennan: Part of that had to do with not answering the phone correctly. You know, incorrect verbiage, not conveying the value that we provide to customers was part of the problem. And also part of it was marketing. And we weren't doing enough to attract new customers. We weren't doing any customer retention. I didn't even know what our customer retention numbers were or very many numbers.
Jason Brennan: I knew how to read a p and l, but I didn't know about all the automotive specific KPIs that I should look at and where I, what a good benchmark would be for those. 
Carm Capriotto: What's next on your list of improving your skillset? 
Jason Brennan: Well, I'll tell you, you know what I'm working on right now? My skillset right now that I want to improve is teaching leadership, you know, becoming a better leader and also how to teach other people how to lead would be an ultimate goal I'd like to achieve in that area.
Carm Capriotto: That's great because you've got a growing business 
Jason Brennan: and I can't be at all the shops all the time. I can be in them. When I need to be or when I'm able to be. But somebody's gotta steer the ship, you know? And, 
Carm Capriotto: but you don't want many Jasons, you want individuals, right. Leader, individual leaders 
Jason Brennan: that Right.
Jason Brennan: Who believe in our core values and Right. Can carry out the mission and the culture of the people Do that. Taking care of our customers and the employees who they oversee. 
Carm Capriotto: I love this. I think we covered a lot of great territory here. Good to have you on again. And Patrick, for you to just come in like that.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, you brought him to the Institute's conference here just because you wanted him to. Hear all this. 
Jason Brennan: I'm hoping he is having a good time and learning some things. I 
Carm Capriotto: bet you will and can from 
Patrick Brennan: it. I learned something. These types of things I love because I take a little bit of something from every one of 'em.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Think about all the marketing companies that are here that you can just go up and, 
Patrick Brennan: yeah. Or just guys like Jay or you. I could talk to you guys and learn something, you know. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, 
Patrick Brennan: it's all gonna benefit all 
Carm Capriotto: of us. Yeah. Itself. Nothing like having family here to Yeah, it was, it was to run stuff by, 
Patrick Brennan: yeah, it was kind of random.
Patrick Brennan: He just said, Hey, you wanna go to this thing with me? And I'm like, okay. 
Jason Brennan: I guess. Sure. Well, I kind of told him he was going. Yeah. And then I, well, I asked him, and then after he said, yeah, I said, well, I already told him you're going. So 
Carm Capriotto: they called that voluntold, right? Yes. I love it. Oh, this is great. Jason Brennan, fine Tune Auto and his brother Patrick.
Carm Capriotto: This is a blast. Thanks for your wisdom and your insights. Appreciate it. Thanks. Thank 
Jason Brennan: you. Appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast. Until next time.
 

133 - Building Businesses and Believing in Better Days with Cecil Bullard

133 -Building Businesses and Believing in Better Days with Cecil Bullard
June 9, 2025 - 00:40:00
 
Show Summary:
Recorded live at the Institute Summit 2025, explore what it truly means to stand out in today’s evolving automotive industry. Cecil Bullard covers major industry shifts, including electric and autonomous vehicles, the growing influence of private equity, and the increasing specialization of shops. Cecil also opens up about leadership, mentorship, and the personal habits that drive success, such as effective time management, the power of “mindless work,” and adapting communication styles using tools like the DISC profile. Packed with real-world advice on business planning, self-belief, and resilience, this episode is essential listening for industry professionals aiming to thrive and lead amidst ongoing change and innovation.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Cecil Bullard, Founder of The Institute
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction to the Episode (00:00:00)Getting to Know Cecil Bullard (00:01:49)Advice and Mentorship (00:04:49)Industry Trends and Technology (00:05:19)Specialization and Shop Survival (00:06:42)Time Management and Productivity (00:08:05)Stop Stopping: Overcoming Self-Limitation (00:09:56)Personality Types and Communication (00:11:26)Future of ADAS, EVs, and Specialty Shops (00:16:56)Private Equity and Industry Consolidation (00:18:25)Shop Valuation and Selling (00:20:53)Planning for Succession and Exit (00:28:22)Mentorship and Coaching (00:31:07)Lessons to Younger Self (00:33:04)Wealth, Security, and Time (00:34:10)Career Path and Commitment (00:37:42)
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm6Mqmx8_uY
 
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
 
Links & Resources: 
Want to learn more? Click Here
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See The Institute's events list: Click Here
Want access to our online classes? Click Here
________________________________________
Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everybody. Carm Caprio, remarkable Results Radio in Amelia Island. Near Jacksonville. If you've not been here, this is a huge, huge place. I mean, the beach is right over there, but I have never seen it yet. 
Carm Capriotto: When I come to these events, I work my butt off. Probably like you Cecil, right?
Carm Capriotto: Go, go, go. We're at the Institute's Summit 2025. We are the institute.com. Thank you to Cecil and Kent for having us here. The theme stand out. And it's actually been the entire, everything that's happened here, all the keynoters, all the breakout sessions, and some of the best shop owner leaders ever. I'm so impressed with 'em.
Carm Capriotto: So thank you for this award from our sponsors. Hey, take your Autocare center to the next level, the gold level with the Napa Autocare Gold Certified program. This program is for the best of the best, who can provide a consistent consumer experience and earn the trust of returning and new customers. Talk to your NAPA sales representative about how you can become a gold certified shop.
Carm Capriotto: Hey, for over 30 years, NAPA Tracks has made selecting the right shop management system easy by offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry. We'll prove to you that tracks is the single best shot management system in the business. Find Napa tracks on the web at N apa TRA cs.com. I am back with Cecil Bullard, the CEO of the Institute.
Carm Capriotto: I saw your speech on the first day. You knocked it out of the park as usual. But I brought Cecil in here maybe to talk a little bit about the industry, but to find out a little bit more about him. What do you do for fun? Cecil work. I knew you were gonna say that. Why did I know that? 
Cecil Bullard: I like woodworking. So building furniture.
Cecil Bullard: Woods. Interesting. 'cause it's not metal and that's cool. Yeah, I love my family, so spending time with my grandkids. My dad did not build relationships with his grandchildren, and I just thought that was really important. So I try hard to do that, you know, if I do what my wife wants, it's been certain shows, so every once in a while I'm on the couch for Cool.
Cecil Bullard: For a day watching. Yeah, whatever.
Carm Capriotto: I love it. It seems like there's a decade or every decade something kind of different happens with your life. Your world. Here come the grandkids. Oh, it's a new, fun, absolute thing I wanna do. You know, last year was for me, splitting wood. Oh wow. Honest to God, we have burned more wood this year.
Carm Capriotto: Maybe we're going on our third cord. Then ever before, it's been a really cold winter. I have seven and a half acres of woods. We lost 20 ash trees because of the ash Boer. Yeah. Last year we had 10 taken down. I had the arbor take the bottom half and I took the top and I split all of it, and now I have another 10 or 15 that I have to do and I can't wait for the snow to melt in buffalo.
Cecil Bullard: So you can do that. Yes. I always love what I call mindless work. I love to mow the lawn. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because I don't have to think about what I'm doing. I can think about all kinds of other things, but, and when I'm done, I can look and go, wow, that looks really good. Yeah. I mowed the lawn 
Carm Capriotto: instead of worrying about my next interview.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Or the next edit, or the next production, or the next conference. I worry about not hurting my fingers. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I think mindless work, what I would call mindless work like that is extremely valuable. Yeah. Now, I don't know if my shoulders would handle splitting wood. Mowing the lawn. Anything I like to read too, by the way, I'm just an avid reader.
Cecil Bullard: I read. Between three and four books a week. Just no kidding. Yeah. For fun. So when I can't sleep, I'm reading, if you read 
Carm Capriotto: Focus Factor still Focus I, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah, actually I think I'm about halfway through that one. Me, me too. I have about four books open right now. Right. 
Carm Capriotto: And that's a cool way. Zig Ziglar's son, I interviewed him a bunch of years ago, he's sitting on his couch and Barry Barrett made the introduction for me.
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. And he was on with us. He's got a stack of books on his couch and I asked him, and I said. Why all the books he says, to your point, he says, I read so much. I kind of lose interest. I know I want to finish. I go to another one, and then I ask this great question. I says, do you read them all to the very end?
Carm Capriotto: And he goes, hell no, Carm. He says, if I think I got out of the book what I wanted three quarters through, it's on my shelf. 
Cecil Bullard: I would say I, not only do I read them all to the end, but I might read them three or four times. Over time because it's like attending a class. You know, you get a good instructor and you go in and you're like, you come out and you're just pumped up, but you can't get it all right.
Cecil Bullard: Oh no, you're right. And so sometimes you gotta read the book a second or a third time, and then the older I get it's like, oh, I know where was that. I think it's one of the things that are gonna keep me on my toes is just kinda keeping my head in it. Right. I get it. Hey, get any advice over all the years that you still follow today?
Cecil Bullard: So many wonderful people in my life. You know, so many mentors that have helped me be where I need to be. I think that the advice that's probably been most valuable, and I, I don't even know that I could tell you who finally got it through my head. It's like, I think believe in yourself and believe that the world is a good place and that whatever problems you're having, you're gonna get through that and tomorrow's gonna be a a better day.
Cecil Bullard: You watch the industry, what trends do you watch? I think we got a lot of issues right now. Obviously technology is changing the vehicles, so self-driving cars, they're gonna be here at some point and whoever owns the self-driving cars. So just had some conversations. One of the things about events like this.
Cecil Bullard: You get to talk to a lot of different people in the industry, and you have companies that are trying to buy up the Ubers and the et cetera, because like Ford would love to buy Uber, and then they get to sell Fords to all the Uber drivers. And then Ford controls where all the Ubers get fixed. And so I think right now the manufacturers, the issues with manufacturers struggling so hard in their service centers mm-hmm.
Cecil Bullard: Is driving them to think of other ways to control market. And one of the ways they're gonna try to control market is to buy market share. So, and then you have millennials and what we got c gens. They don't necessarily wanna own a car. Yep. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: so I think that you're gonna see like a lease a car for, you know, a self-driving car for 400 bucks a month and it'll show up when you need it, and there's no driver and they're not gonna own the car, which means that they don't control how the car gets taken care of, who takes care of it, et cetera.
Cecil Bullard: I think there's gonna be some real challenges there for whoever may buy that and make that happen. But I think there's real opportunities, but I think that individual shops, I also see this separation of specialists. Yeah. And the mechanic. Yeah. Okay. Mechanical specialists, technology specialists, I, I mean, we still have mechanics, we still have shops.
Cecil Bullard: They're not educating, they're not training. I can get by just enough. I think we still have people that are pirating software instead of investing and training and looking at what's gonna come up in the next five or 10 years that I need to know. And I think we're gonna see a lot of shops close. You also have to think about BlackRock and the other two major private equity companies that own 87% of everything today except for automotive.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, they're coming in. Yeah. Like it or not. Yeah. And I think that. With the advent in technology with the changes, if you can't afford to pay your people well. And run a really profitable business that you're gonna get out of the business. You're gonna sell, you're gonna, you're gonna have to, there's no way.
Cecil Bullard: To your 
Carm Capriotto: point, wall Street Fortune, I've seen some articles come out in the absolute observation 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Of what's going on in the service side of the business. Thank you for that. Any secrets to time suck? We just seem to sometimes mindlessly not pay attention. 
Cecil Bullard: It's funny 'cause Kent was just diagnosed with a DHD.
Cecil Bullard: I've had it my entire life. You have these strategies that you do. I have lists of things, and Kent has his lists and et cetera. What happens if you're not planning your time? Then all of a sudden it's the end of the day, you didn't get done what you wanted to get done. So for me, one of my secrets is I keep a pad, I write things down, I make adjustments to that.
Cecil Bullard: There are things that fall off the list. And I think when you're teaching like the high energy A D, HD or D type personality, people that we have, 
Carm Capriotto: yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: You know, we want to be in charge. We want to take charge. We want to do everything, but you just can't. If you put the list together and then you go through the list and you say, should I be doing this right?
Cecil Bullard: Am I the only one that can do this in my company? And if I am, then I better find somebody else or teach somebody else. Is this something I really want to do? Is this something I hate to do? Is this something I should be passing on to someone else? When you start to create that and you create a list, and then you're going through and saying, okay, I'm gonna delegate those jobs, and then I have to accept what happens.
Cecil Bullard: You know you got a manager, but you need to become a coach for the manager. You can't just let the manager run loose. I would say it's the same thing when you're bringing someone along, and I think a lot of us in our business don't even bring 'em along. It's like, I'll just go do that. It's simpler or, and then all of a sudden our days are gone.
Cecil Bullard: It's the whole week's gone and I didn't get done what I needed to get done 
Carm Capriotto: this week. Be more accountable to the things that you know you want to do. I'm a list guy just like you, and sometimes they move up, they move down, they move. Sometimes I 
Cecil Bullard: pull 'em 
Carm Capriotto: off and sometimes I actually get a chance to check it.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. If nobody noticed that I haven't done it in like three weeks, it disappears. I guess It wasn't important. Right. Yeah. What does stop stopping mean to you? That's interesting. I think that's Marie's comment, but to me it means we hold ourselves up because we limit ourselves. Okay. And so I don't wanna limit my company.
Cecil Bullard: I don't wanna limit my people. I don't wanna limit myself. And so there are things you should stop if you're consciously determining your life and your business, making those conscious decisions, which means you have to stop in the morning every day and go, I need 15 minutes to go through my list. And that's a valid stop.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. But if you're allowing everything else to get in your way, then why are you, if, if that thing that's on your list is that important? Why are you stopping yourself? Yeah. What's holding you back? Those are the words I was just thinking of. Right. I think you really need to say, okay, why am I not doing this?
Cecil Bullard: Or what's holding me back? We as humans, we do this weird thing where. If we don't understand something or if it's really tough for us, we have, we don't have a lot of experience in it. We distract ourselves and to me stop stopping is stop distracting yourself. Mm-hmm. Right. Perfect. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: It's the right answer.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Are you gonna get it done or not? Because if you're, ultimately, if that's not something that is of that kind of value to you, then get it off your lips. Yeah. I think it's, or give it to somebody else. I think 
Carm Capriotto: it's a great two words for people to realize I'm not getting anything done. Yeah. Well, stop, stop.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, basically stop stopping. You have a decision to make. Okay. I, I should have, oh, God should have done that last week. So stop stopping. 
Cecil Bullard: And I think you have to, I don't know. You know you, your beautiful daughter works for you. Yeah. Works with you. My son works with me. Yep. And I'm the d personality. I'm the guy that's like the driver who thinks I should do it.
Cecil Bullard: I can do it faster, I can do it better, blah, blah, blah. Is Ken 
Carm Capriotto: d? Is Ken d 
Cecil Bullard: He says he is okay. But he's got really strong C in him. He does. Oh yeah. Yeah. So if he is a dc, which is probably his personality around me, he's more C than D around some of the rest of the staff. He's probably more D than C. Okay. So, but I'm the guy that's like, oh my God, I have to do this.
Cecil Bullard: 'cause I'm the one that's gonna do it the best I know the most. I. You can't do that. Mm-hmm. Because if you do that, they're not gonna have any opportunity. Yeah. The rest of the staff isn't gonna have opportunity. To your 
Carm Capriotto: point, we're talking about the DISC profile. Yeah. Dominance, influence, interpersonal.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Interpersonal S being kind of a steady as she goes, the customer service person. And the C being conformist. Meaning the accountant style in all of us. Yeah. It's a has to go before. B controller. Yeah, exactly right. Oh, one day, lemme tell you this story about me losing my your mind on a high C. Yeah.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. I'm an id. Okay. D and I are above the line. Yeah. And everything else is below. I won't go into that. But my point was, if we knew what our people's communication style was, our disc, we end up ultimately having the right kind of conversation with them. 'cause if you're a D, gonna talk to an I. They're probably not gonna listen unless you have their conversation with them, not yours.
Cecil Bullard: If you're a salesperson and you have a lot of experience being a salesperson, you know that you have to make adjustments for the people you're talking to. Yeah. And if you're a good manager, it's the same thing. If I'm gonna be Cecil the D and have a good conversation, especially when Kent is like in his total C roll, there's no way we're even gonna talk.
Cecil Bullard: We're just gonna get mad at each other. We're both gonna think, well, you're not listening to me. And then we end up either yelling at each other or not talking to each other for three days. Yeah. Which none of that solves the problem. Yeah. And I think there's, who's the adult in the situation? I know it is probably the wrong way to put it, but if you're the adult in the situation and you say, okay, I'm gonna get more out of this person or out of this communication if I make the adjustment to the other person's style.
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Carm Capriotto: After all, it's your shop, so it's your choice. Visit us on the web at Napa Trax. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. I've got thermal management shops, I've got EV shops. I've got. A s calibration shop. I would tell you, 
Cecil Bullard: I think first of all, ADOS is gonna change with technology. It's gonna become simpler for the average shop to do the calibration.
Cecil Bullard: And so these guys that really invested a lot of money in the big facility and all that, I think that's gonna change electric vehicles. It's not the technology of the future. It's gonna be a hybrid of some sort. It might be gas electric, or it might be gas hydrogen, or mm-hmm. Diesel hydrogen or whatever.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. We're gonna have multiple options because that's really the future of it all. You know, specialty shops. I thought we would be almost all specialty shops by now. I mean, you know, 20 years ago I was like, oh, we're gonna have the BMW shops because the equipment's getting so expensive and. You gotta have specialty training for all of that.
Cecil Bullard: And we certainly, I think, have more of it now, but I don't know that the generalist is ever gonna go away because it solves a problem for a certain part of the population because, and why I 
Carm Capriotto: semi agree with you. That in my house, I've got one of each. Yeah. And why do I wanna have four or three different relationships out there?
Cecil Bullard: No, and it's harder. It's like, okay, if I trust Cecil or if I trust Karm, that's where I want to go. That's where I wanna go. Right? You're my place. And so, Hey Km, I know you work on my whatever, but can you work on my whatever? The answer is, yeah, if I can make it work, if I can make it pay, then yeah, I'm gonna do it for you.
Cecil Bullard: I don't want you going anywhere else, so you can, there's a little part of me that's like, oh, he might really like them better than me. 
Carm Capriotto: You mentioned Blackstone earlier. Private equity. Yeah. I mean the consul, I mean, you got your finger on the pulse of this. I know you do. Yeah. With Michael Smith joining your group Chief Strategy Officer, I think.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, something like that. He's become a great friend of ours and we love to hear him talk. We just sit, 
Cecil Bullard: we, we like him. Yeah. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: So just sit back in the room with Michael and you know, you'll get like a million words coming at you, you know? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Imagine it's hard for me to talk when Michael's involved it.
Cecil Bullard: Cecil Bullard. Oh, has a hard time getting in the conversation. 
Carm Capriotto: Really? 
Cecil Bullard: Oh yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: I just spoke to him before you, I did pretty good, I think. Did you? I think I held my own. You'd be proud. You'd be proud. Yeah. I can't wait to hear it. 
Cecil Bullard: I love Michael De pieces. I mean, if you get to know that guy, he is gonna heart the size of China.
Cecil Bullard: Oh my God. And he cares. And he is so freaking smart. I mean, he's wicked smart. Yeah, that's what they say, right? Yeah. Wicked. He's wicked. Wicked smart. Wicked s smart wicked 
Carm Capriotto: smock. 
Cecil Bullard: And, but I keep telling him. Man, you gotta slow down a little for the rest of us, you know, just for the 
Carm Capriotto: rest of us. Oh my God. Just a little.
Carm Capriotto: I will feel comfortable saying that to him. Yeah. Next 
Carm Capriotto: time. Just 
Carm Capriotto: because I want to hear everything he has to say. Yeah. But a lot of times, like what I do for a living, it's a two-way, and it has to be right. It's gotta be a two-way, this whole Blackstone thing, consolidation, and you're close to it. There's so much talk about it.
Carm Capriotto: I mean, think out five years for me and tell me where you think it's headed 
Cecil Bullard: eventually, especially with like self-driving cars, if companies like Ford end up being the provider for the self-driving cars and the whatever Uber's gonna be in the future and they steal that car 
Carm Capriotto: park, 
Cecil Bullard: yeah. We're gonna have a hurt.
Cecil Bullard: A little bit of a hurt. And, and by the way, if private equity wants to come into our industry, we're not gonna keep 'em out. Right. Okay. Whether we like it or not. You know, if you and I go back, say when we met eight years ago. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: How many private equity companies did you know of? I knew of zero industry. I knew of maybe two or three.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Currently I can tell you that there are probably nine or 10. In the industry right now actively pursuing, hovering, and there's five or six more coming in. Yeah, because I get stuff every day. You're Cecil Bullard, you're the institute. We want you on our board. We're a private equity company. We're gonna come in and consolidate and you know, pay you a bunch of money, blah, blah, blah.
Cecil Bullard: And so I think we're gonna see a consolidation of the industry, whether you like it or not, which there's really good news about that and bad news. So I think 
Carm Capriotto: one of the words is opportunity. Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Because right now the average shop goes at about 2.8 x ebitda. So if I made a hundred thousand, I can sell for 280,000 plus assets.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. So, but my assets are only worth 20 cents on the dollar. So my old equipment. 20 cents on the dollar my car, 20 cents on the dollar, et cetera. Yeah. And my computers and other stuff here, they're not worth anything and the tools are really not worth anything. Maybe 10 cents on the dollar. 
Carm Capriotto: Isn't that the toughest part for any shop owner to have to overcome?
Carm Capriotto: You know, wait a minute. Do you know how much my toolbox, I had a $200,000 toolbox? Yeah. And you want to pay me a thousand bucks for it? Yeah. And how about that? Five years ago I just bought that, uh, road force balancer. 
Cecil Bullard: When I finally realized I wasn't gonna work on cars anymore at all. I gave my tools to a friend who has a shop that needed the tools, because I'd rather do that than try to sell 'em because nobody wanna pay me.
Cecil Bullard: It just me. It pissed me off. Every time I talk to somebody, they call you and they're like, oh yeah, you got this. It's a, I dunno, $500 wrench set that I might pay for Snap on. And they're like, oh, I'll give you $15 for it. And it just was like, I'd rather take 'em all and dump 'em in the ocean than do that. So I, I give my toolbox away.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. I give all my tools away. I mean, I have enough now. That. Like if I need a ranch or something like that, I can, I have it. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, but I don't worry about that at this point. The best assets that any shop owner has to sell is property with a building on it if he owns it. And so 2.8, I just testified in a court case last week.
Cecil Bullard: I got another one next week about the value of shops and 2.8 is 
Carm Capriotto: the multiple on top of the ebitda. Yeah, that's average at a lot of people average at the moment. A lot of people 
Cecil Bullard: don't know that. Okay, but go ahead. Yeah. But with private equity coming in, the value of a. Well run shop now, by the way, the multiple can be higher.
Cecil Bullard: Let's say three years ago would've been between one and four. Okay? So the best run shop in the world where the owner's not involved and there's a manager, and the business has been growing for three years, and it's net 15% plus and no bad check marks four times ebitda. Okay? Yeah. Right? Yeah. And so, but average 2.8.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Well, now. With private equity coming in, some of the private equity companies have kinda learned their lesson. 'cause the first guys that came in, they went to buy crappy shops because they didn't have to pay for 'em. Right? So I could buy it at a one x, I could buy that shop for a hundred grand, or I can buy that shop for 200 grand and the owner will carry 150 of it and they got nothing, right?
Cecil Bullard: And then they bought a bunch of crap, and then it was crap. And now they've learned their lesson and they're coming in and they're saying. I don't want a crappy shop. I want a shop that runs well. Yeah. Yeah. And that is organized well, et cetera. And that's kind of what Michael is kind of doing in our company, is trying to get that, be the evangelist for that word out there.
Cecil Bullard: I love that word. But now you can get five x and I even know some guy's getting six X for a shop. That's well run because private equity wants the business. And if you've got a 20% net. In your shop and you've done that three years in a row when you're not the player and et cetera, and you're checking all the boxes.
Cecil Bullard: I could get a five or a six x for a single shop that maybe net 300 grand. Yeah. So now I have 1,000,005. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Right. 
Cecil Bullard: Instead of 700,000. Right. I, I've almost doubled what I have. Yeah. But there's another part of it too. If we go and put together a bunch of those shops. Like guys that have two and three or five and seven, and we put them into a platform mm-hmm.
Cecil Bullard: That we then present. Yeah. We can get 10, 12 x. Yeah, exactly. So the opportunity is amazing right now. And I think, hang on, I gotta say it. There's a bunch of shop owners when they hear m and a or they hear private equity, they're like, well those rotten sobs, you know they are, I'm sorry. All they care about is money.
Cecil Bullard: But they're coming in our industry. They're coming in our industry hard. And you need to be running a good shop because it will give you opportunity either way. Yeah. Whether you keep it, pass it on to family or whether you decide to sell it to private equity, and I guarantee you, what's gone on in the autobody industry.
Cecil Bullard: Oh yeah. We're 12 years behind them. Mm-hmm. And private equity is much more. Aggressive right now than they've ever been in in our industry. Right. Or they ever were in autobody, and this is gonna happen relatively fast. They'll still be mom and pop, they'll still be well-run jobs, but we're gonna be dealing with private equity in something.
Cecil Bullard: And one of the things that Private Equity's doing a little different is they're not changing the name of all the shops. Now it's still John's Automotive and they're still running it under John's Automotive, but it's no longer owned by John. It's owned by, right. The private equity company, the brand was strong.
Cecil Bullard: The people were great. The owner could walk away and it'll run. Yeah, it gives us opportunities financially, if you're getting in your. You know, late fifties, sixties, and you're like, I want out. Holy smokes. What a better opportunity than being able to double the what I get out 
Carm Capriotto: of the shop. Yeah. Your words are so strong.
Carm Capriotto: And one of my favorite bits of advice that I ever got in my life was the words pay attention. Yeah. And is so if an owner is not paying attention to their net operating income, I'm sorry, all of that means you've gotta do all 30 of those things way up in the umbrella. Right. If this company can run with your minimalist involvement, and it's scary to think, but some of the people that I know received and are still working and are still growing.
Carm Capriotto: In a multiple for their business. And then I was lucky enough to be with you guys in a particular meeting a few years ago and see how you can maybe even get a second payday out of this stuff. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, we got guys that are coming up to their second payday. Uh, wow. Okay. 
Carm Capriotto: So what does that all that mean? Well run a great shop, hook up with Michael and figure it out.
Cecil Bullard: We have too many people in our industry and God bless 'em, who don't really understand your business is an engine. Okay. 
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. 
Cecil Bullard: And if the engine gets air and fuel at the right amount, at the right time, under the right compression and spark at the right time, it runs like a bat outta hell. If any of those things are off, 
Carm Capriotto: yeah, 
Cecil Bullard: then it doesn't give you the performance that you want.
Cecil Bullard: And we need every shop owner to understand how the engine works and what, how much air and how much fuel and all of that. Because when you figure that out. Not only does it run better and it manages better, and you can take care of yourself and your family better. But you can also take care of the families and the people that work for you and create a lot more opportunity, not just for yourself, 
Carm Capriotto: but for them.
Carm Capriotto: Also. Thanks for the motivation on this. We've done so many episodes. We've discussed ad nauseum on this, and I like to often bring this up because there's always a, a new opportunity, a new open mind is set that comes from some stubborn, stuck people. And a lot of new people that constantly are listening to the show.
Carm Capriotto: So where am I going one day, honey? I'm gonna sell this for a million dollars one day. And then they find out that it's not possible because they didn't run like a well-oiled engine. So 
Cecil Bullard: this guy that you and I can, if I said the name, you would know exactly who it is. And currently he owns either five or six shops.
Cecil Bullard: He's been growing, but I knew him. 15 years ago when he was a tech coming into a shop that was gonna be sold. Okay? And they made a seven year deal, him and the owner and seven years go by. The owner wants to sell the shop, but what he needs is way more than the shop is worth. Okay? And they never tightened the deal down.
Cecil Bullard: They never actually wrote anything down. They never put stuff on paper. So all of a sudden this guy has put seven years into this business and now the owner is coming and saying, well, I'm not gonna sell it to you for that. I'm gonna sell it to you. It has to be this, and it's only, it has to be this because he's not okay if he doesn't get that right.
Cecil Bullard: And you know, he comes to me and he goes, what do I do? And I said, well, ah, right. First of all, neither one of 'em should have been at that point. We should have put a plan together seven years ago to make it look like and what does it need to look like so the owner can get out the way the owner needs to, and the guy can come in the way the guy comes in.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. But we ended up paying an extra a hundred grand for it. And you know, I was like, it's worth more because we know we can run it better. So give him an extra a hundred thousand dollars. It's the only way you're gonna get it. And you've already invested seven years of your life and now he has, I dunno, six shops or whatever he is doing fantastically.
Cecil Bullard: But it's that I don't want to come to the point of I gotta sell my shop. But I'm not gonna have what I need to feel comfortable in my retirement. 
Carm Capriotto: Absolutely. Okay. That's 
Cecil Bullard: the problem. You never want to be there. And we've also done other deals with other guys who, like, there's another guy that, if I mentioned his name, you, you know who it was.
Cecil Bullard: And their service advisor, service manager, I think they at the time had two locations. We put a plan, a seven year plan together where. Seven years from now, if you've grown the business to six locations or whatever, then you get 30% of it and you get to buy out the rest. And the owner's going, well, why would I give up 30%?
Cecil Bullard: Well, because it's not a small pie anymore, it's a much bigger pie. So your 70% is a larger pie. Right? And it worked out great. The plan was done. They've gone now, gone through that part of it. And don't let your life come to the point where you're at that point and you don't know what you're gonna do because you haven't figured it out.
Cecil Bullard: Ross Bernstein today. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. Pick up the phone and call somebody. Duh. You see all these people that are stuck. I need this, I gotta have that. They don't know what they don't know, and they continue to walk down the aisle not having a clue. The p and l looks different. The assets are stronger. The business has grown, and to your point, my 70% is even worth more.
Cecil Bullard: I have a coach. I have mentors that people that both work with me and around me that I use all the time. Yeah. And I'm the guy that's 
Carm Capriotto: supposed to know everything. I don't. And that's why, and that's how you know it. Yeah. Hey, if you could pick up an instant skill right now, tomorrow says, God bless me with a new skill, what would it be?
Carm Capriotto: Patience that 
Cecil Bullard: came right away. Although, uh, I make a joke all the time, I have not learned patience. So if I'm at the grocery store and I'm in that line where I'm always in that line. I'm like, oh, God's trying to teach me patience and I haven't learned it. If I'm at the, I don't know if I'm checking into the hotel and it ain't going the way I want, I'm like, God's trying to teach me patience.
Cecil Bullard: I haven't learned it. And I make this joke about I need to not learn patience because if I do, then I've got everything I'm supposed to, and then God's gonna pull me from the earth. So I wanna be here while longer, so I'm not gonna learn patience yet. We all have a dark side kind of a joke. I think the slowing down a little bit.
Cecil Bullard: Trusting with management, the people around you mm-hmm. Can really change the game. I've had to do that in the institute. In order to grow the institute. I've realized that my lack of skills in certain areas will hold it back if I don't use other people and allow other people to have some freedom to do what needs to be done.
Cecil Bullard: Those early decisions, were they painful? Oh. Are you kidding me? I'm still paying for many of the early decisions. Right, okay. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Because I made them without enough information or because I was too forceful. Or was it impulse? Whatever. Impulse. Oh, I think I'm extremely impulsive. Obviously with the D personality, you're like, oh, I don't need any information.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, I can do that. Let's go. I. I would tell you right now, if you ask Kent, you know, what's the worst thing about your dad? He's like, oh, there's a hill. Let's go take it. Doesn't look back and see how much ammo, how many people are following. Yeah. You know, what's the path? Kent wants to plan it out, so patience.
Carm Capriotto: If you could send a message to yourself, your younger you, just to say, 15 years ago, what would you say to the younger Cecil? I would say it's 
Cecil Bullard: gonna be fine. Wow. Okay. Just because everything that happens, like you have this thing that happens and you're, I shattered my ankle. I spent two years in a wheelchair, seven surgeries, and during that time, it was the end of my life.
Cecil Bullard: Okay. But. Because of that, I was able to go back to college, get a couple of degrees. I now have the institute. It's gonna be fine. You know, the, if it doesn't kill you, it's gonna be fine, right? If I had calmed down sooner and been a little more patient, I think that I would live a lot longer and have a much happier existence.
Cecil Bullard: Even today. Now when something happens that's like, you know, my first reaction is like, ah, I wanna kill somebody, or you know, whatever. I'm like, okay, take a couple of deep breaths and it's not the end of the world. No. We'll make it through there. Right. You had all the money in the world gold piled in rooms at the house.
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. What would you buy. I would buy security for my family children. I don't need anything else. If I, I'm not rich, but I am wealthy enough at the point that if I need something, I can go buy it. Got it. Why would I want $25 million? Well, okay, that might buy security for my family and ine, but also we're finding out that.
Cecil Bullard: You know, third generation wealth destroys people. Yeah. Frankly. Yeah. So, I don't know. I don't need a boat. I don't need a motorcycle. I don't, you know, if I need a new pair of Levi's, I'll go get a new pair of Levi's. More time. But you can't do that, right? No, no. That's the one thing, right? You can't buy. You can't buy time.
Cecil Bullard: You kind of can. If you're smart, you're putting people in place and it might cost you money. No, but you're putting people in place to do the things that you don't want to do. You're a hundred percent right. Right? Yeah. So in a way, you can maybe buy time, but it's not more time than you have on the earth anyway.
Cecil Bullard: Right. I 
Carm Capriotto: have one more question. I so loved this off the charts, candid Cecil Bullard thing. Thank you for coming in here at the Institute Summit 2025. One thing that you've done, and no one knows, I always think of the bad stuff, so 
Cecil Bullard: we're not gonna talk about that. Whoa. No, there. No. Oh, dude, never. Oh. You know, we all have our warts and we don't want anybody to see 'em, and that's fine.
Cecil Bullard: I'm a pretty open book. I love my family, I love the industry. I've gotten lots of calls from people that have said, Hey, Cecils, someone needs help. Or you know, and I almost hate to say this here, 'cause then all of a sudden I'm gonna get a bunch of emails, but. I'll give up an hour for anybody in this industry that wants to talk and how can I help you and what can I, what direction can I give you?
Cecil Bullard: We tried a program a couple years ago where we brought in six or eight shops. I remember that. No pay. Yeah. Yeah. Most of those shops wouldn't even make their meetings with me. Yeah. And so we killed that because. If there was no value to it, there has to be an investment in on their part. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. But I routinely, if someone calls me and they're like, oh, I really need help, I'm like, okay, well if you do these couple of things, you're gonna be in good shape.
Cecil Bullard: And I don't know. I mean, what nobody knows. I'm a pretty open book. I almost played college basketball. Oh. You know, that's, that's cool. I had a. 10 inch Afro in high school? No. Oh, I had the best Afro in. Well, wait a minute. High school. Well wait a minute. That's 
Carm Capriotto: the best piece of knowledge right there. 
Cecil Bullard: Oh, I got a picture I gotta show you.
Carm Capriotto: Would you do that? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. With the 10 inch Afro and I was, I only weighed like 165 pounds. I was six four. 
Carm Capriotto: Six four with a 10 inch afro. Yeah. That puts you at seven. What? 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah, it was, it was beautiful. It was beautiful. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh my God. Cil, I must 
Cecil Bullard: see that. I also had a ponytail and a mullet at different times. So yeah, I want a ponytail.
Carm Capriotto: I think a ponytail, like with the white hair and everything. Great. I've seen guys with that. Yeah. I mean, I. I don't know. My wife wants me to grow a ponytail. I don't have the patience for it, so might happen, but I, I tried a few years ago. Yeah. Is my hair continuing to grow? Cil? It didn't get long. It just kept getting more and more bushy.
Carm Capriotto: We were gonna have an afro. Yeah, I know. I was, it was getting so bushy that when I put on a hat it would all just stream out and I. But is wasn't long enough to put any kind of tail anywhere. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. I probably had about an age eight inch ponytail at the time, and I get rid of it. All right. Long time ago when the kids were small.
Carm Capriotto: Completely different view of you. 
Cecil Bullard: Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing is that you probably don't know, is that I'm not supposed to be in the automotive industry. This is never where I was supposed to be. My dad didn't want me here. I didn't wanna be here. Yeah. I ended up here and there was a point in time where I decided.
Cecil Bullard: Wherever I'm gonna be, I'm gonna try to be the best I can be. And I think everybody needs to make that decision, even if you're only gonna be there for a year. 'cause you might find that it's 44 years later and you're still there. Well, 
Carm Capriotto: well, it's good that you're here. You're changing a lot of people's lives.
Carm Capriotto: I've got so many friends that are part of your group and they have done incredible things with their business, and it really all flows down to some of the great people you've hired, the decisions that you've made. And, and watch the commitments. You have to advance this in. Watch for a couple announcements in the next two months.
Carm Capriotto: Ooh. Oh, can't wait. Excited Cecil Bullard. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having 
Cecil Bullard: me. Thanks. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast. Until next time.
 

132 - Your Business Playbook: Strategy, Data, and Accountability with Ross Bernstein

132 - Your Business Playbook: Strategy, Data, and Accountability with Ross Bernstein
May 26, 2025 - 00:42:53
Show Summary:
Recorded live at the Institute Summit, this insightful conversation explores how business leaders can apply sports principles—like team chemistry, leadership, and preparation—to enhance performance. Keynote speaker Ross Bernstein underscores the impact of storytelling as a powerful communication and trust building tool, sharing lessons from icons like Scotty Bowman and Jay Leno. The discussion reinforces the importance of having a solid business playbook grounded in strategy, data, and accountability, while also addressing the need to adapt to change, foster a culture of loyalty, leverage technology for growth, and prioritize meaningful personal connections and networking. A best-selling author of nearly 50 sports books, Ross Bernstein, is an award-winning peak performance business speaker who’s keynoted conferences on all seven continents for audiences as small as 10 and as large as 10,000. Ross and his books have been featured on thousands of television and radio programs over the years, including CNN, ESPN, Bloomberg, Fox News, and “CBS This Morning,” as well as in the Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and USA Today. https://www.rossbernsteinspeaking.com/
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Ross Bernstein, Speaker and Author
 
Show Highlights:
Introduction to the Episode (00:00:00)Importance of Storytelling (00:02:51)Jay Leno's Storytelling Practice (00:03:50)Team Chemistry in Sports (00:05:06)Scotty Bowman's Coaching Insights (00:06:29)Building Team Chemistry (00:08:00)Innovative Recruiting Strategies (00:08:47)The Power of the Playbook (00:12:17)Measuring Performance (00:13:06)Continual Improvement in Business (00:14:21)Ketchup Insights (00:15:45)Practicing What We Learn (00:20:02)Generational Workforce Changes (00:22:11)Creating Loyalty in Teams (00:22:55)Time Perception (00:23:10)Focus and Distractions (00:23:49)Engagement in Presentations (00:24:38)Struggle and Growth (00:27:26)Humility in Leadership (00:28:25)Client Experience Officer Concept (00:30:05)Philanthropy and Business Success (00:30:23)Gamification in Customer Engagement (00:32:36)Adapting to Change (00:35:14)Networking and Personal Connections (00:36:21)Legacy Business Lessons (00:37:08)Business Fundamentals (00:39:00)
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network. Hey everybody. Carm Capto. Remarkable Results Radio, again, back here in Amelia Island in Florida with the Institute 2025 Summit. Theme is standout. My next guest is absolutely outstanding. We are the institute.com. Thanks to Cecil and Kent for having us out here. I've learned a lot, met a lot of nice, neat new friends, and thank you so much to our sponsors.
Carm Capriotto: More than 16% of light duty vehicles on the road are EV and hybrid. Is your shop ready to safely and properly service them? Get your shop trained and equipped to service hybrid and EV vehicles with NAPA Auto Techs. Innovative. Ev Ready, level one high voltage awareness and maintenance training. Hey, for over 30 years, Napa Trax has made selecting the right shop management system easy.
Carm Capriotto: By offering the best, most comprehensive SMS in the industry, we'll prove to you that Trax is the single best shop management system in the business. Find Napa tracks on the web at N apa A-T-R-A-C s.com. Hey, welcome back. Let me tell you about my next guest. In fact, there's so much to talk about that I have to actually read it from his mini bio here.
Carm Capriotto: The best selling author of nearly 50 sports books. Damn, I've always wanted to write just one. He's a peak performance business speaker and proud member of the Speakers Hall of Fame, which is no easy task, and you proved that to us this morning. His keynoted conferences all over seven continents, been featured on CNN, CBS mornings, MSNBC, SPN, and Fox News, as well as the Wall Street Journal, New York Times and USA today.
Carm Capriotto: His mission for us today in the conference, as we heard his keynote, is to get us all thinking differently about how we can raise our game to the next level. Sports was, man, everything you talked about with sports, you opened up with Tom Brady, and so since I'm from Buffalo. I wasn't comfortable with that.
Ross Bernstein: I'm from Minnesota. I wasn't comfortable with that. 
Carm Capriotto: I just thought, here I am figuring out how the damn man beat us forever. Right. I know we may have been one in 10 years, I just don't quite remember that. But Ross Bernstein, you just, you nailed it. You were telling stories up there and you covered 16 different, if you will, strategies or concepts for us.
Carm Capriotto: And I wanna talk about a few of them. But the theme that we've been hearing from all of our speakers, and as I was spending time at the lunches and at the breakfasts, this whole storytelling thing is big. I mean, that's what you did. You got up on stage and all you did and all 16 key strategies was tell us a story.
Carm Capriotto: Mm-hmm. And the audience was glued. Why storytelling so 
Ross Bernstein: important. Well, thank you, Carm. Thanks for having me. I'm honored to be here. Storytelling is just the best way to communicate, right? We've been doing it forever. When a great storyteller tells a story and they talk about their family, you think about your family.
Ross Bernstein: When they talk about their job, you think about your job. We learned that from Walt Disney, right? Books, movies, and our brains are wired for storytelling. So I think it's a muscle. You can get better at it. You can work at it. Yeah. I remember one time I was speaking at a conference with Jay Leno. And I was visiting with him in the green room and I was, you know, in awe, this celebrity.
Ross Bernstein: But of course he was the nicest guy in the world, just as you'd imagine. Asked me all about me. And I was fascinated to learn, and this is back in the nineties before cell phones and social media and video that every Saturday night when he was at the peak of the Tonight Show, when he was making a guy, probably made a hundred million dollars that he would every Saturday night at midnight, he would do like an a standup improv set at the Hermosa Beach Comedy Magic Club for the drunks.
Ross Bernstein: And it, you know, before anyone could record it, but he would basically practice his story. Yeah. He was honing hon it and, and he said, you know, if I could tighten up a story by. Two or three words just do people laugh differently. And I thought, I was amazed that here's a guy who's had such success yet, was so particular and wanted to practice and make it right.
Ross Bernstein: And that really stuck with me about that. That's what makes the great ones great, is that even those little things, they can just, they can work on him. 
Carm Capriotto: Jay Leno was a real guy, man. I mean, he was the real deal. I loved Jay Lenon. I continued to like him today. Of course. I'm old enough to remember Johnny Carson.
Carm Capriotto: Me too. And those were big shoes to fill, weren't they? In this industry, we're small business people and we're trying to teach them through coaching and what I do on the podcast and the networking groups that exist, how to become a more sophisticated business person. And everything you talked about today helped us become more sophisticated.
Carm Capriotto: One of them was team chemistry. I think we struggled with that a lot since most of our CEOs are business owners today. Never went to a leadership class. They came up from the wrench world into being a CEO chemistry. Let me see. I remember going to a class in school and we had something foaming on the counter.
Carm Capriotto: That's not it today, 
Ross Bernstein: chemistry is the biggest thing in sports and that they're aware of and they work on it constantly, and we don't think about it in business. Teams start out the season and they go to training camp in a small town, middle of nowhere, no spouses, no kids. 'cause they need to figure out chemistry, who gets along, 
Carm Capriotto: who they 
Ross Bernstein: are.
Ross Bernstein: Yeah. Do these guys get along? Do they not get along? Who are the team cancers? Who are the bad apples? I did a book called Raising Stanley, right? I interviewed hundreds of professional hockey players who'd hoisted the Stanley Cup, and I wanted to know why. Looking for the trends and the patterns and the commonalities, and I got to know Scotty Bowman, who wrote the foreword for the book, and it was fascinating getting to know this guy.
Ross Bernstein: He's the winningest coach in the history of the National Hockey League. He's got 14 Stanley Cup rings. He even named his freaking kid Stanley, which is pretty cool. Now, Stanley's won three Stanley Cups, so this kid was destined for greatness. But I remember Scotty talking about the importance of chemistry and about not having the best players but the right players.
Ross Bernstein: And when he was at the Detroit Red Wings, it was a masterclass. He was able to put the right people together. And by the way, the 14 cups wasn't a dynasty team, like the Yankees. It was, he had a repeatable process. He was able to recreate in St. Louis and Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Montreal, Detroit, and he would put the right people together.
Ross Bernstein: So in Detroit, he had one line of all Russians. There was actually a movie about 'em called the Russian five. And it's interesting 'cause three of them were there originally and they were really good. They scored a ton of goals. But they were wild. They drank a lot of vodka and it, so he literally, he knew that the only way to get the right chemistry was to get two older veterans that these kids looked up to that would listen to him.
Ross Bernstein: So he literally went to Moscow and like with brown paper, sacks of cash allegedly, and car keys to his fancy car, convinced him to defect to come to America, play hockey, get 'em an apartment. No. And once those old guys got there, these kids shaped up. It was an incredible line. And then they had another line of all Swedes and see, Scotty understood that when you put friends together, high school teammates, college teammates, they had fun, they'd fight for each other, they'd enjoy assists more than goals 'cause that guy's buying beer.
Ross Bernstein: So he was able to do more with less. He didn't have the best players, he had the right players in the right chemistry. And it's cliche, the long to hire, quick to fire, but it's so true. If there's a team can't surf. If there's a bad apple or someone's not, maybe not necessarily performing, but if they're bad for team chemistry, they gotta go.
Ross Bernstein: And that's why I talk about a lot of guys who are like clubhouse guys. The veterans. Yeah. They're the ones that keep the peace. They're the ones that let the managers know, Hey, these guys don't get along. There's, there's gonna be conflict. You gotta trade one of 'em. You gotta do something. If the chemistry is off, the team will never win and you can win in sports.
Ross Bernstein: You don't have to have the best players if as long as you get the right chemistry and players love each other. Whenever teams win Super Bowl, you watch this whenever this after the Super Bowl, when they interview people, they're gonna say, we were like family. Yeah, we all got along right? We wanna want to go out to dinner together.
Ross Bernstein: And teams that lose is drama, conflict, egos. So it's a fascinating thing. 
Carm Capriotto: How do we build chemistry? Obviously we need to be creative like Scotty was and think, if you will, outside of the box. And we have to bring our intuition to the world we live in. We have to observe, we have to listen. We have to see if we've got high fives going on, if we have people supporting each other inside of our service.
Carm Capriotto: You can 
Ross Bernstein: also, you can also incentivize your people to bring in their friends. I have companies that will do that, right? Yeah. They'll, they'll give you a signing bonus. So you bring in a friend. It's hard enough to get kids into the trades these days, right? 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. 
Ross Bernstein: Oh yeah. I worked for a cool company one time.
Ross Bernstein: I speak at about 130 conferences per year, and they're all different industries. I do a lot of work in the automotive space, a lot of different touch points, but I do every industry and I had a, a gig one time at this Precision manufacturing conference and before I came in I was doing some homework and I went and met with this company and they make these little like springs and stamps, like little tiny, but they have to be within like a millionth of a micron of an inch or they.
Ross Bernstein: Because they go into like airplane doors and cell phones. Mm-hmm. They gotta be perfect. And if there's any problem that, you know, lawsuits, it takes a year to apprentice on this machine just to make these tiny parts. And it's monotonous and boring. It's not sexy. And this company was gonna die because they had all these old people that were aging out, that were all retiring and they, they had no pipeline of young talent.
Ross Bernstein: So they had to take some drastic measures. So they went out and they acquired this local community college, which had been disrupted by online university. So they had closed, and they were part of this other college, but there was an empty building. So they bought it and they invested. They put some of those machines in there and they kind of cleaned them up.
Ross Bernstein: They didn't look good, but then they added in some video games, a bar, a little kitchen. And then they got very strategic about recruiting, who they thought would, might be good at operating these machines. So they went for kids who were wanting to get into the trades, farm kids, motorheads, military kids, whoever they thought, and they'd bring 'em in.
Ross Bernstein: And then they brought back some of their older retirees and they trained them. And it was this really fun environment. They had music playing. It was very different than the traditional setting. And a couple things happened. Number one, the kids had fun, and as soon as they liked it, they said, Hey, we'll pay off your student loan at this trade school for what we've created just for this machines, and we'll incentivize you if you bring in some of your buddies.
Ross Bernstein: So they did, and it created this pipeline. So three things happened. Number one, they had a whole pipeline of new talent of kids who wanted to be there. Number two, they created a new culture. The chemistry, the culture changed and the old people wanted to come back to work. They said, Hey, now it's fun. You got this new energy.
Ross Bernstein: There's music. It's like people are going on after work and people like each other. And it wasn't just a job, it was more of a career and it was fun. And number three, the college that they'd partnered with. Had a hundred percent job placement. So it was a win-win win. And that college was promoting them and encouraging.
Ross Bernstein: And that's the thing, like you've gotta be able to find talent these days and acquire, there's two ways to get talent. You draft it, you know, like in sports, you develop it or you acquire it, which is making a trade. And you gotta buy someone. If you need a new CFO or shop manager, it's gonna cost you a lot.
Ross Bernstein: So. But then there's this gray area of finding those sort of emerging leaders, those diamonds in the rough, where you recruit kids who you think would come in and you make it fun. So I'm always fascinated. I don't tell people how to do it. I'm not the hero of my story. I just share other stories of how people say, here's 
Carm Capriotto: maybe this would work for you.
Carm Capriotto: You're challenging, or think, I love what you just said. And I wrote down the words Work, family. And then I wrote down, reinvent the family. It doesn't mean that we can't have the most spotless employee kitchen, a clean refrigerator where all the food's been there for over a week or two. I mean, just as good of a coffee selection as we have for our customers out front.
Carm Capriotto: And that's kind of been a discussion trend lately, is to work on the inside as much as we work on the outside. Since this whole thing was sports themed and I kind of, I've always compared what we do to the medical field to a certain degree because of the knowledge that people have to have and the specialties they have to have, which is really kind of slamming us as an industry.
Carm Capriotto: But there were so many sports analogies and when I heard you talk about playbook, you know it's on the Apple iPad and they've got a playbook. I started to think about the playbook for our people is the career path we outline for them. And the tools that we provide them and the, if you will, the functionality of solving problems for our people.
Carm Capriotto: Talk to me about the power of the playbook in sports. 
Ross Bernstein: Yeah, it's interesting. In that module I was talking about Tom Brady and all the specialized coaching that he would receive and spent extra money for. You know, now they're using, kids are using data, predictive analytics, artificial intelligence algorithms, and they measure everything.
Ross Bernstein: There's a saying in sport, the film don't lie, so they record everything and, and there's no arguing that way because a coach walks out in the huddle and says, they don't ask what happened. I don't want your interpretation of what you think happened. They just show the video. Because the film don't lie. So they record everything and then they discuss it and then they hold them accountable.
Ross Bernstein: And it's pretty fascinating. But each player has a custom playbook. So they, they load it up with data and film, and if they're recovering from a knee injury, they wanna know certain KPIs and metrics. How's it feeling? How many miles did you run today? How about yesterday, last week, last month, last year?
Ross Bernstein: What's your core body temperature? What's your blood pressure? I mean, what are you measuring? You can't get better if you don't measure it. So they measure everything and they wanna know is it a positive or negative measurement? Like, is it good, bad, they don't wanna get better in a big way. They wanna get better in a little way every day.
Ross Bernstein: They wanna get a little bit better and they know there's gonna be setbacks, injuries, there's gonna be confidence issues. So they want to get better and they wanna help build their confidence and get better. So video and data is the sort of the key to that. But then having, instead of just a playbook that is, you know, tired and old and outdated, the second it comes out, they have a, an iPad that they can upload with new information of things you wanna watch.
Ross Bernstein: Then they can hold 'em accountable. Did you watch these videos? It'll tell 'em, did you watch it? Yes. How many times did you watch it in slow motion? Did you, what did you look for? What did you learn? And then they practice over and over and they hold 'em accountable. And if you don't practice and do these things, you're on the bench or you're working our trades you or cut you.
Ross Bernstein: So we don't do that in business. We don't practice making phone calls. We don't teach our young people how to work with the customer. We just say, Nope, I fixed it. Right. Well, you gotta train them. It's like storytelling. You gotta, you gotta practice. Like sometimes my daughter, who's a wonderful storyteller, will tell this long.
Ross Bernstein: I'm like, honey, land the plane. Get to the point like, like make it like if it's funny, like get to it. Right. I love that. Yeah. So I mean, there's no one right way to do it and that's kinda what I do. I celebrate lots of different ways and I just do it to the lens of sports. It's kind of been my passion, but it applies to business, applies to life and you know, the people in your industry do an amazing.
Ross Bernstein: Service, they help to create the American dream. They help to make sure that our vehicles run well and that we're safe and that we can get to where we need to go to run our country. Yeah. And run businesses. And what they do is profound. And you know, I love setting the top producers. Like what makes the great ones great and why?
Ross Bernstein: Right. Like Tom Brady, like love 'em or hate him. I mean, the guys, the winningest. Ever. Mm-hmm. And it's not just getting to the top, it's staying at the top. It's that dynasty mentality. How do you continually deliver extraordinary customer experience? How do you continually hire and recruit and train young Gen Z talent that wants to work with you and stay with you?
Ross Bernstein: How do you continually come up with new, innovative ways to solve problems? This is what great companies do. Yeah. Last week I worked for Kraft Heinz for huge sales group of people that sell ketchup and condiments and Philadelphia cheese. And I'm like thinking like, man, what? You know, these, these guys sell ketchup packets?
Ross Bernstein: But no, they, they make the fun. Right. Like french fries aren't fun without Heinz ketchup. Bingo. And, and I'm like, it was just awesome. And they have so much fun and some they sell to mom and pop stores where they just got the old bottles of ketchup. And they even changed that. 'cause remember in the old days they would have a bottle of ketchup that was like a quarter empty and it was all kind of slimy in there.
Ross Bernstein: And you're like, Ugh, I don't want that. So they created these plastic bottles that are the identical color red. I dunno if you've seen like a Heinz bottle. It's, it won all these awards for packaging. It was really remarkable. And they can't fill 'em up. They make it so the cap, if you take the cap off, it breaks it, can't use it.
Ross Bernstein: It's one use, but it always looks full and it has a flip top. Yeah, it does. But you can't refill it. Okay. Like once you unscrew it, it's toast. It's, 
Carm Capriotto: yeah. 
Ross Bernstein: But you know, some sell packets, some sell those flip tops and they put 'em on the tables, you know, and they got those little baskets in the table. Some sell industrial, like the McDonald's where they buy 'em, where you pump it out at a pumping station.
Ross Bernstein: That's the thing I learn every day about new products, new companies, new, you know, and I'm so, for one day I'm an expert in ketchup. Right. So it's fascinating. 
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Carm Capriotto: Napa Trax is always customized and tailored for you, whether you are a one man shop or a large multi-pay or multi-location company. After all, it's your shop, so it's your choice. Visit us on the web at Napa Tracks. That's N-A-P-A-T-R-A-C s.com. Ross, I'm an expert in ketchup. Can I tell my story? 
Ross Bernstein: Calm the condiment king.
Ross Bernstein: I love it. Can I tell you my story? Let's hear. Let's I 
Carm Capriotto: come back from Apex, get off the plane, meet Anne. We go out with our friends. 'cause every Friday night we go out with friends. We're sitting, there's like eight of us at a table. And the food comes out and there were french fries on my plate, so I right in front of me, I reach for the ketchup bottle.
Carm Capriotto: It's one of those exact bottles you just described and I brought it near me and I flipped the top. It exploded. Oh no. It was, I'm wearing a white shirt, sport coat, the whole, it's all over me. Oh no. It's all over. My friend to the left, it's over, my friend to the right. And we're all scurrying for more napkins.
Carm Capriotto: Water spray bottle, the whole thing. I am glass. Catch it exploded. And what I want to know, and I've never really found out, maybe you can tell me. What happens? I mean, did it ferment? Why was that thing man explosive. I better call craft. 
Ross Bernstein: Maybe it was hunts. Maybe it wasn't their bottle. Let's say it was a competitor.
Carm Capriotto: Right? No, and I don't mean to bring up a brand. I just mean to bring up, yeah. What happens to ketchup bottles that explode? 
Ross Bernstein: I have no idea. We've all been there. Right? 
Carm Capriotto: I thank you. I've never told that story in my podcast. I think this is the first time. Okay. Thank you. You'll land the ketchup story for me.
Carm Capriotto: You mentioned the word practice just a few minutes ago, and in our industry, this continuing education that we have to be involved with CEO leadership training, service advisor training, and all the technology that goes on in the bays, we go out and educate. But if we don't come back and practice what we learned, we lose it.
Ross Bernstein: Yeah. And you know, this business, it's such a mom and pop business at its core. Like everyone who gets in. 
Carm Capriotto: Maybe they start as a mom and pop, but today we're much more sophisticated. Yeah, but they 
Ross Bernstein: know the business, right? It's not like you just bought it and you're hiring people to run. And people in this business are passionate about the business.
Ross Bernstein: Anyone our age certainly knows how to change a tire, change oil, work on the carburetor. Like those are, there's no such thing. Morning, no such thing. But the old Gs, they all, I get it. Know that stuff. I know what you. And it's a different world, so, but I think that's what's cool about this industry though, is that people are passionate about it.
Ross Bernstein: It's like I do a lot of work in the hospitality industry. I work at some of the biggest hotel and restaurant brands, and anytime you interview a restaurant manager who's been around for a little while, they all started out as a barback, a waiter, a waitress, a dishwasher, and they worked their way up.
Ross Bernstein: Assistant manager, swing manager, by the time they get to a manager or a franchisee. They know every touchpoint of the business. And that's the thing that's cool about your industry is that people know, like the CEOs, these companies, the owners, the shop owners, they know Yeah, they, they've been there.
Ross Bernstein: They've been in those bays. Right. Yeah. That's a really cool, unique differentiating factor about this industry is that you have that connection. I work in a lot of industries where people have no idea what goes on. In those other areas. Right? And that, I think that's unique. But how do you, but I think that also creates problems that you sort of take things for granted.
Ross Bernstein: You go, well, we've always done things that way, or, well, I know what's going on 'cause I've been there, done that. But the reality is that young people today and those kids that are in those bays, they think different. They have mental health issues, they care about different things and about work and culture and life after work.
Ross Bernstein: And so now you can't just be a boss, you've gotta be a psychologist, a mom, a dad. A shoulder to cry on. Yeah, you've gotta, kids wanna be promoted, you gotta give micro promotions, you've gotta. You gotta help 'em succeed or they're not gonna stick around. And if you wanna create loyalty, like I, I told a story today I've worked in, I worked for some, some restaurants that have 150 to 200% turnover every year.
Ross Bernstein: I mean, as bad as your listeners think they have it, imagine that that takes into account you might have a typical fast food QSR restaurant. 20 employees, five are lifers. Five have been there 10, 5, 10, 20 years. That's a lifetime in fast food, right? Some, but then you take the other end of the spectrum.
Ross Bernstein: They've been there five minutes or they said, you know what? On the way over the interview, the other guys, Arby's offered me a nickel, an hour more. So I'm gonna go there. So you're constantly, someone shows up day one, you train 'em, they quit. So they quit. That means you're coming in on Sunday, right? Yeah. So to create loyalty, to create that culture, that environment is such a key factor, and that's where being a great leader, being a good storyteller, listening, those are all those, that's the secret sauce.
Carm Capriotto: You said something I think almost near the end of your speech today about. A day, a week and a year. And I think you said, you know how quickly a day and a week goes by? No. You know, here. Oh, a day and a I'll 
Ross Bernstein: give you, it's, it's an old, it's an old proverb. It's not for me, but it's no days and weeks and months.
Ross Bernstein: Drag on. Right. But years fly by. Yeah. And that's, if you've got kids, then you, that connects with you. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, I know. Exactly. And so I wanna jump into the word focus right now because. Sometimes we just don't give our all to understanding what we want to do. I know you talk about goals and purpose and why it's been big at this conference.
Carm Capriotto: It's big, I think for all of us in life to do this. But focus, I think, is something that's pulling us away from really accomplishing our goals and our wives. How do we get some of the distractions away from us, Ross? How 
Ross Bernstein: it's a different world, social media, cell phones, I mean, they're, they're just a part of that world now.
Ross Bernstein: So you're gonna have, we've learned to live with, whenever I, I had a two hour speech today with a room full of people that were tired, hung over many of them, and basically. I look at them, they look at me and a lot of times I, I'll see someone basically with their phone and like this, and they go and they're looking at me like, okay, monkey boy dance, because if you suck, if I'm not interested, I'll be here for the next two hours.
Ross Bernstein: I don't need you. I need to be better than Instagram and Facebook. Whoa. If I can capture the audience, and that was, that's a superpower. That's a weird one. 'cause I don't take a breath for two hours and I'm up there. It's a pretty weird thing. But I'll tell you what, as I looked around the audience today, several hundred people, there were a couple people that were sound asleep.
Ross Bernstein: I'll tell you what, I think that's awesome because that's their time. My gift to them is time, and you never know what someone's going through in their life. I had a guy one time that was sleeping during my program and I didn't, afterwards, she came up to talk to me. He said, I want you to know I lost my mom this morning and I just wanted to listen, and then I wanted to zone out.
Ross Bernstein: I just didn't wanna be at her. Hey, I was really tired because my wife has cancer. And I'm like, man, I, you don't know what people are going through. 
Carm Capriotto: Everyone has a story. 
Ross Bernstein: Everyone has a story. And if I could give them the gift of just giving them a little time to catch up and get recharged, I mean, that's the thing at this conference, we're not on Zoom.
Ross Bernstein: We're not just like zooming in to be 'cause we had to or 'cause it's like they chose to invest to come here. They're not working in the business, they're working on the business and they're present and they're here. And they can take a part of whatever they're not required to be here. The boss is gonna fire them if they don't come to the keynote session.
Ross Bernstein: But they wanted to be there. And my job is to entertain and educate them and inspire them, and hopefully challenge 'em to think differently. But you never know what someone's going through. So I think. You need to be better than Facebook and Instagram. That's just the bottom line. And you need to be more interesting and you need to have a fun work culture, and you need to be able to have a let 'em, let their hair down, take 'em out, go out, make it fun for them, gamify it, make everything a game, right?
Ross Bernstein: That's what great sales organizations do is they gamify everything. So they say, Hey. If you do this, you do this, you win this and, and people wanna win. They wanna win whatever it is. So if you're not gamifying and making it fun, they can incentivize them. They're not gonna stick around. 
Carm Capriotto: Is it a generational thing for gamifying?
Carm Capriotto: A 
Ross Bernstein: hundred percent, yeah. Is it? But you see, like, let's tell you what, I'm on flights every day. Lots of old dudes and gals gaming on their phones. They're playing video games, everything. That little rush of dopamine, right? Whatever it is. But I see people gambling, sports gambling, they're playing roulette 21.
Ross Bernstein: People just, they wanna be entertained. It's a different way we entertain ourselves. Do we talk to each other anymore? Well, that's what these conferences are for, right? I mean, that's what's so good about a con. And that's, you know, during COVID, I lost my humanity, right? Like March 21st, 2020, I was. My first client canceled and then every client canceled, and I didn't know if I'd ever work again.
Ross Bernstein: And we started being on Zoom, and first people were like, oh, this is great. I'll never have to go to work again. And then six months in we're like, zoom sucks. Like I wanna be with people. Yeah. And I remember being that first conference where we were together and we were social distancing. We had masks on, we had wristbands.
Ross Bernstein: Remember, red means don't come near me. Yellow means I'm okay, blue, you can hug me. Do I remember? And these new rules and the P, PP and all these things. I remember that's when it made me think like, that's what's so cool about this. When you come to a conference, it's not about the conference, it's about having a steak and a beer and a glass of wine and shaking hands and making new friends and connecting on LinkedIn and Hey man, I can't wait to see you next year.
Ross Bernstein: And hey, we should. Do a mastermind. We should talk like we should go offline and we could share leads and, Hey, I got a guy, he's got a special vehicle. Maybe you'd be great for this. Or Can I borrow one of your pieces of equipment or whatever. Like that's what this is about. Yeah. It's collaboration. It's coming together.
Ross Bernstein: Right. You can't do that on Zoom. 
Carm Capriotto: Completely agree. I think you summed up what's important in today's world that we're not gonna learn this sitting on our ass. We're not gonna learn this scrolling mindlessly on our phones. We're not gonna learn anything about being better, getting out of our struggle. And I'm sorry to my listener because you hear me talk about struggle a lot today.
Carm Capriotto: We talked a little bit with some of our, our interviews here. The survivorship is the connection that I've made actually in the last interview that I did. If you're struggling and you don't care to survive, then continue to struggle. I have nothing more to do, say, or help you with, but if you do wanna survive.
Carm Capriotto: What we do on our podcast has a lot of the answers and or coming to events like this here at the summit at 2025 from the Institute. So thank you for bringing that up and forcing that into my listener's mind. You talked about being humble and I think for the most part, many in our industry are. Because we got what we got, not by being, I think, boisterous and big and loud.
Carm Capriotto: We just came back because we took care of people. They came in 'cause they loved us. But now I've gotta run a sustainable, profitable business. And I think to a point, we can be humble, but I think we also have to embrace that we've gotta make really tough decisions. If I'm a super humble person, can I really empower my people?
Ross Bernstein: A hundred percent. You know, I just met Cecil who started this whole thing and yeah. You're not gonna meet a more humble dude than Cecil. I know mean he's just salt of the earth as it gets. Right. And that's the thing, I sort of celebrate athletes who just, they've act like they've been there before. Right.
Ross Bernstein: They don't spike the ball, they don't dance, they don't track. Yeah. You told 
Carm Capriotto: the Walter Payton story. Yeah. And that's where this whole humble thing came from. Yeah. And 
Ross Bernstein: you know, and we like doing business of people like that. I mean, look, there's other people, I mean it, look, we're in an era of Trumpism where that's the anti humble, right?
Ross Bernstein: I mean, and you look at Muhammad Ali. Muhammad Ali wasn't humble. He was one of the most cocky athletes. He had swagger, you know, chutzpah, charisma. Call it what you want, but tell you what, there's lots of different ways to do business. And Ali used to say he'd won half his matches well before he ever stepped into the ring.
Ross Bernstein: When you're that confident, and you know what, if I'm going up against some guy for a piece of big piece of corporate business, and now the way to be humble is you people just know like, man, those guys, they have the best service. They got the best waiting room. They take care of you. They just shower you with they.
Ross Bernstein: Take little videos and call you and they don't nickel and dime you and they're not gonna try and, you know, screw your insurance company for extra money or whatever. They just, they're gonna take care of you. And like, that's the new cocky, right? That's the new way of being, like, you just kill 'em with kindness and service.
Ross Bernstein: And that's the new thing. Now, 
Carm Capriotto: I've talked to the industry about hiring A CXO for their small business, and they look at me like I'm really strange. The client experience officer. Our businesses are too small to even think of doing it, but the answer is we all have to be. Mm-hmm. The CXO, 
Ross Bernstein: well, I think you can do it now with social, so cool.
Ross Bernstein: So I talk a lot about philanthropy. I've got a charitable foundation and I'm involved a lot of charities. One of my favorite companies is a company called Starkey. They're a $6 billion medical device company. They make hearing aids, but they're not really known for their hearing aids. They're known for their philanthropy.
Ross Bernstein: Their founders, bill and Tani Austin, their passion is to watch little kids hear for the first time. Mm-hmm. So they have these mission trips and they get rock stars, politicians, professional athletes, they go to Haiti, Ghana, Liberia. They fit and they give kids hearing aids. But the secret of their success is they hire a bunch of young people like your amazing daughter, who understand technology and social, and they get little video snippets and they put 'em to great music.
Ross Bernstein: And they put 'em on TikTok and Snapchat and Instagram and YouTube and they go viral and it's these little kids hearing it and they go viral. And then every year they've got a gala. We get to go. It's, they raise at least $10 million every year. It's a Hollywood A-list event. They fly in 'cause they just love this company.
Ross Bernstein: I could just speak at their expo every other year. I'm a mini keynote and between President Bush and President Clinton Got it. Talk about bipartisanship. Okay. But this company in a. Completely commoditized industry of hearing aids has completely differentiated themselves and quite frankly, kicked butt to their philanthropy.
Ross Bernstein: They're not the low cost leader. They're not the Walmart of hearing aids. In fact, they're the opposite. They're the most expensive. But people choose to do business with them because they give and they serve the communities that serve them, and they do it. Through their social doesn't cost a lot to create great video content.
Ross Bernstein: That's storytelling done in little snippets. 30 seconds, 60 seconds, right? I mean so many of these of your listeners are, you know, they're just beating the dead horse with Facebook, you know, whatever. But you gotta think differently. And if you a CX perfect, that's a person that's gonna think differently about how they're gonna create different experiences, getting video testimonials of those great stories.
Ross Bernstein: How do you coach a young person to say, Hey, can I get a video testimonial? Would you tell the story? Because if the customer tell, like I work for a very similar group like this in the HVAC space, these are coaches like the institute where they tell coach mom and pop owners, plumbers, all these different things.
Ross Bernstein: And they do very similar thing 'cause it's a very similar industry. It was like your listeners, I told them about a story about video testimonials 'cause I have 150 on my website that people watch. That's what gets me booked for speaking. 'cause I'm in a very commoditized business of selling speeches. Yeah.
Ross Bernstein: So, 'cause they get proof from other CEOs, VPs of sales going on and on about how, how great my program was and how much they love my program. Love Ross. It's not me bragging about me, it's my best customers. Yeah. Yeah. So I coached this guy and how he could coach his people. So sure enough, Minnesota's story here.
Ross Bernstein: A guy, mom and pop guy, some big wig has a party going on at New Year's Eve at his house. The heat goes out New Year's Eve at like, you know, 11 o'clock at night. Who are you gonna call? He starts calling. No one's answering. Finally gets a guy after hours, 24 hours. Calls me, says I'll be right over midnight.
Ross Bernstein: Shows up, fix it. You don't have a good heater, Minnesota Midnight, you're gonna die. This guy was so happy that this guy came over and the guy said, Hey, can I ask you for a little video testimony? He remember? 'cause the guy gamified it. So if you bring the video, I'm gonna paid Friday off. Right? We're gonna get, we're gonna reward you gamify.
Ross Bernstein: So this CEO says, I'm switching all my business. I own all these companies. We're switching all our business to, you know, Bob's appliances, whatever it was. 'cause these guys were incredible. They came over. No one else took my call. These guys, he came over, he saved the day. He was so nice. Didn't nickel and dime me work and.
Ross Bernstein: It went viral. They got so much business from this guy telling this Bec, but it's because he asked for that and he didn't want it. Go back to your office. Record it just in the moment with the iPhone. Authentic, bad audio. That's much, much better. More real. And that's the kind of stuff people need, and that's what the CXO does.
Ross Bernstein: You get a kid who understands technology and how do you capture the hearts and minds of the customers? 'cause people have choices, they wanna work with them. And then the C XO is gonna tell people like, Hey, maybe you shouldn't be commenting on Trump and Elon or Hillary and Kamala or abortion or gun laws because maybe half your customers disagree with you.
Ross Bernstein: So don't do that. 
Carm Capriotto: Warning. That was one of the best pieces of advice we've had in a long time. Be careful. 
Ross Bernstein: Yeah. And just don't do it. Right. Half my, I'm Switzerland, half my clients watch Fox News. The other half. Watch M-S-N-B-C. Yeah. It would not be prudent or smart for me to comment on anything political in my life, so I don't 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, that's smart.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. I'm neutral too when it comes to all the great people in our industry. I'm moved by, first of all, your great speech, but in a very short time together, and I wanna leave. Ross with your piece on, be willing to change and we all can change and improve. But when you said lean in, that really grabbed me because I think we talk about stuff, we write things down.
Carm Capriotto: We have our purpose, we have our why, we have our goals. We, we never, if you will, I call it being bold, italic. Leaning into a decision or into a goal and saying, I am going to do it and I am gonna get it done. Talk to us about leaning in 
Ross Bernstein: it's inevitable. Change is here. I gave some examples in my world of certainly when COVID hit going virtual, a lot of my colleagues, competitors went broke.
Ross Bernstein: I have one of my best years ever, I. I was doing four gigs a day, right? I would, companies didn't have a budget. I said, no worries, twofer, bogo, I'll do this one for free. Bring me back next year, full fee, and I'll be in person. And 
Carm Capriotto: this is all online, right? 
Ross Bernstein: It was all online. But I came outta the pandemic as the busiest speaker on the planet because I didn't let those relationships die.
Ross Bernstein: I took care of 'em when they needed me, just like I learned from my grandpa in the furniture stores. Take care of people when they need you the most. Don't charge 'em. Help 'em. And they'll remember you. And I came out smoking and a lot of people never got their traction back. It's a momentum business. You get it, you keep it, but you gotta change, right?
Ross Bernstein: I mean, I wrote 50 books. Guess what? Bookstores are dying, right? Bookstores are gone. And now we've got eBooks and Kindles and nooks and audibles. And so content's changing. So you gotta change, you gotta adapt, you gotta do different things. I've had books are what I call currency. I just, I give 'em away.
Ross Bernstein: They're what I call that first warm puppy wet kiss. If a new client wants to hire me, I don't send them a brochure. I send 'em a bunch of my sports books for their bathroom library in it. Starts that conversation off in a really different perspective. 
Carm Capriotto: Cool. You just hit on something and I, I wanted this to be the last piece, but I can't let it be it.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. Because you talk about pick up the phone and call somebody. It resonated with me. You also said, what would Grandpa Joe do? Mm-hmm. Right? So you're thinking back to some legacy moments, the things that you've learned in your life, and we all have them, but we also have challenges of today that we're not quite sure what Grandpa Joe would do, and even if Grandpa Joe could even understand the situation that I'm in.
Carm Capriotto: So you pick up the phone and you learn to network. I think it's missing. We do have friends. Maybe not to the widest degree that we need to have in our industry as far as an influential network, 
Ross Bernstein: but 
Carm Capriotto: boy, we need to pick up the phone. Yeah, 
Ross Bernstein: I'm old school that way and I still call people. I check in, enjoy it.
Ross Bernstein: You know, I'd rather call someone when I'm up for a run or a walk than being a mastermind where I get pay to talk to them. I would rather just, Hey man, how you doing? How's your family? What's going on? Like, catch me up. Anything new and exciting, and I just check in on people. I remember when my dad took over the furniture stores in Southern Minnesota and he brought, he got a, he bought a computer and that was a big deal.
Ross Bernstein: 'cause we had file cabinets of all of our customers. And look, they would come in and pay it. They run a layaway, right? We would, they'd make payments like every Monday or whatever. First of the month, people would walk into the store and they would sit down, they'd have a cup of coffee and they would make a payment that was credit and those, right?
Ross Bernstein: Yeah. And my grandpa would always under promise and over delivery. He would. Make sure they left with a donut, or maybe we'd always get free carpet samples, those little squares, and that would always be like a new rug for the garage. Right? So people would always say, can I have a carpet? Of course you can.
Ross Bernstein: Right? They'd always leave with something. Right? And when we got the computer, this grandpa's like, well, they're not gonna come in anymore. Then what? It's scary, but every industry from the horse and buggy guys to, to now we've got hyperloops and autonomous vehicles and mass transit and trains and Uber. I mean, are people even gonna have cars in the next 10, 20 years?
Ross Bernstein: I don't know. But it's all about leaning in and saying, Hey man, let's just enjoy this ride and look, if you want out, get out. There's private equity. Let the young guys take in. Right? I mean, just like in Shawshank, get busy living. Or get busy dying, like enjoy this. Take care of people, have fun or find something else to do.
Ross Bernstein: It's okay. That's what this conference is about, man. Figure out that next step. If you're not passionate about it, pass the reins. It's okay. 
Carm Capriotto: That list that you read off of like 150 different things, did you write that last night or is that just kind of a standard piece? 
Ross Bernstein: I have no comment. 
Carm Capriotto: I customize it for every group.
Carm Capriotto: I bet you do. Yeah. Because we heard, of course, so much that it had relevancy to us. My client yesterday 
Ross Bernstein: was Ameriprise Financial Services. So they have very different problems than you have. Right, right. In this world. So every client has different challenges. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh my God. It was We're sitting there and he's going and going and going.
Carm Capriotto: Then he flips this little piece of paper over and he does another 50 or 60 over, and everyone resonated with me. 
Ross Bernstein: Yeah. But then, but the moral of that story was. What are the things you can control? Yeah. So many things you can't. Right, exactly. The economy and politics. Then it just comes back to like picking up the phone and just being nice and taking care of your mental health, your physical health.
Ross Bernstein: I mean, it's not rocket science. Business has always been business forever. People choose to do business with people who they like, who they trust. Who get it right and that at the end of the day, that's what it's about. People can get their car fixed anywhere. Why would they choose to get their car fixed or repaired with you?
Ross Bernstein: That's the secret, and that's what you do. You educate your listeners. You're a proponent of cheerleader for the industry. You're helping them solve problems, creating new ideas, ways to think and. So I just feel really lucky I got to spend a day and be an expert in this world. But I love meeting guys like you and your daughter and 
Carm Capriotto: yeah, thanks.
Carm Capriotto: You're all about helping. Thanks for hanging out with us. This is great. Ross Bernstein and author, former mascot. It's true. Oh my God. Former rodent Golden Gopher. Former former Godin rodent mascot. And you've gotta hear that story someday. You have a book about it. Am I right? 
Ross Bernstein: Well, it's not about me. It's more about the history of my books aren't about, I'm, like I say, I'm not the hero of my story.
Ross Bernstein: I talk about other people. That's a history of Gopher Hockey at the University of Minnesota, as told to a large smelly fury rodent. Thanks for being here, Nick. Great. Great to meet you. Thank you, Carl. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast. Until next time.
 

131 - Struggling to Hire? Imagine Recruiting in the Last Frontier with Mike Simard

131 - Struggling to Hire? Imagine Recruiting in the Last Frontier with Mike Simard
April 28, 2025 - 00:32:39
 
Show Summary:
Recorded at the Institute Summit, Mike Simard dives into the challenges of recruiting and developing talent, especially in a unique setting like Alaska. He shares his innovative strategy of acquiring lube centers as entry points for new team members and highlights the critical role of strong company culture and leadership. Mike also emphasizes the importance of building the right team, balancing the visionary and integrator roles, and the need to continuously adapt in the ever-evolving automotive industry.
 
Host(s):
Carm Capriotto, Remarkable Results Radio
 
Guest(s):
Mike Simard, owner of Simard Automotive
 
Show Highlights:
Mike Simard's Background (00:00:00)Acquisition of Lube Centers (00:02:10)Energy and Problem-Solving (00:02:43)Vision for Training Talent (00:03:41)Geographic Logistics (00:05:12)Talent Development and Apprenticeship (00:05:41)Industry Comparison (00:06:32)Recruitment Challenges (00:09:04)Relocation and Recruitment Process (00:12:31)Motivation for Policy Writing (00:16:03)Understanding Unique Selling Points (00:18:05)Building a Strong Team (00:19:20)Learning from Coaches (00:21:52)Delegating Responsibilities (00:22:30)Building Company Culture (00:25:47)Understanding the 'Why' (00:27:09)Finding the Right People (00:28:34)Balancing Inner Voices (00:30:04)Breaking Barriers in the Industry (00:30:35)
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrZHa2uib2k
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Carm Capriotto: This is the Aftermarket Radio Network everybody. Carm Capriotto Remarkable Results Radio in Amelia Island. We're here at the Institute Summit. We are the institute.com. Thank you so much to Kent and Cecil and the entire team from the institute to be here just a few hours ago. Michael, were you in the room when I gave my little speech?
Mike Simard: I was not. 
Carm Capriotto: You weren't? I was not. Okay. Well, they'll do it right now for you.
Mike Simard: Let's hear it. 
Carm Capriotto: No. It's a little longer than this podcast will warrant. Yeah, and it was great doing that and a lot of great friends, top tier shop owners that are here, and glad you're here with me. So we appreciate everything from the institute and how they're growing and how they have these incredible groups.
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Carm Capriotto: We'll prove to you that TRACKS is the single best shop management system in the business. Find NAPA tracks on the web at N APA TRA cs.com. Also, thanks to aftermarket management network.com for information that can help you move your business ahead. And for the free and informative labor rate tracker.com.
Carm Capriotto: With me is Mike Simard. You were on a couple of years ago at the same event. That's right. Wow. Two, three. 
Mike Simard: That you even pronounced my name right? Still. So, 
Carm Capriotto: all right, throw the dollar over. I've been practicing it seven locations, but there's a couple of really unique things about Michael that you all need to know while you're driving down the highway on your treadmill.
Carm Capriotto: Listening to this, because you're here to listen, to learn. Just one thing from Michael Smart. It's got seven locations, but they're in Fairbanks, Alaska, Fairbanks, and Anchorage. And Anchorage. Now you see I got an incredible update. Last time I knew you, you 
Mike Simard: had four I. So I met you in Florida and at that time I had four locations, comprehensive models in Fairbanks, and then we a few months later had bought three lu and tire stores and a tire warehouse and two are in Anchorage.
Mike Simard: So we're now in the Anchorage market as 
Carm Capriotto: well is the tire warehouses just like they do in Canada where they store the tires for people or you distributor of tires too 
Mike Simard: distributor. So, ah, we have more buying power through this point S group that we join a tire buying group co-op, and we need to house the tires.
Mike Simard: Got it. 
Carm Capriotto: So. Amazing. Where the hell do you find the energy to do this? 
Mike Simard: Well, my wife says if I wasn't doing something, I'd break things just to. Just to stay going, so I like to 
Carm Capriotto: You're the Energizer bunny. 
Mike Simard: Yeah. I like to solve problems. I like to do different things. Oh God. I like to. Oh, I so love that. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah.
Mike Simard: You know, I sleep good at night most of the time. Do you invent problems so you can fix 'em? That's what I said. Yeah. She said if you didn't go find something broken to fix I know. Or build something new. I'm so much like that. Yeah. I really, 
Carm Capriotto: does it still continue to work? Okay. Which 
Mike Simard: parts 
Carm Capriotto: I know Think about it and 
Mike Simard: can it do it better?
Mike Simard: You know? Can we get a better mousetrap? Teresa says, dad, it's fine. 
Carm Capriotto: Well, yeah, it's fine, dad, because I've always been this perpetual upgrader, you know, 2.0, 2.1 2 3, 3 0.0. I've always been, you never stay stagnant, right? 
Mike Simard: Well, our purpose, our vision is always try to elevate others the highest potential, so you better live that yourself.
Carm Capriotto: Michael, it seems crazy for you to go and buy some lube centers 
Mike Simard: and did you have a purpose to do that was the deal, right? The biggest thing, you know, I discovered a lot of new things, so I love learning and it's a new challenge and one of the things we need to do is continue to find great talent and grow our own by buying.
Mike Simard: I always had this vision many years ago, didn't quite understand what it meant, but the vision was like over on that side of town we'd have this teaching training shop. A place that maybe we can find talent, find people that want to come into this industry and train them up. People need to come in for a convenience oil change.
Mike Simard: They need to get some basic services and then get on their way. It's a wonderful place to teach people a better industry and kinda get them started, you know, and make sure they have their basic hygiene, make sure they really want to go down that road, and when we find out that they're a value fit, that there's somebody that wants to learn.
Mike Simard: That somebody we can maybe take all the way into our four year apprenticeship program. And so I had that vision and that just happens to be that one of the stores I bought in Fairbanks was in that same side of town and never thought that'd be the place, this one particular location. 'cause I was like, that's something I can't do.
Mike Simard: I. Had a limiting mindset there for a while. Yeah, sure. And then all of a sudden we did it and then we grew in the Anchorage market. 'cause they're really thirsty for, we believe what we have. And now we actually have promoted, hopefully next month will be the third apprentice. Out of that same location I.
Carm Capriotto: Apprentice out there into, 
Mike Simard: so that's into our general service shops. Into your, okay. And then we can grow them to a level master tech. 
Carm Capriotto: I just logistically need to understand how far away is Fairbanks and Anchorage? 
Mike Simard: Six hours unless, 
Carm Capriotto: oh, okay. You're going faster. So this isn't someone that you train 'em in Anchorage and move 'em into Fairbanks 
Mike Simard: for the Fairbanks market.
Mike Simard: But we actually just last October started our first ever 
Carm Capriotto: Anchorage Apprentice two, so I think we've got seven or eight now. Okay. Alright. It's such a great idea. That an independent successful goes into a specialty shop for entry level maintenance. And looks at that as a team building operation. 
Mike Simard: Yeah, that was the first vision actually.
Mike Simard: It wasn't like, I'm gonna go make a bunch of money or just get more car count. I was like, I wonder if we can find people and attract them and teach them who we are and maybe we can, you know, are you gonna show up in time? Are you gonna comb your hair? Are you gonna wear a uniform? Do you get along as a team?
Mike Simard: Can we teach you some life skills, some basic goal setting. Quality control. Do you care? Do you have customer service so you can actually, the lube model's kind of interesting 'cause a lot of people will change the oil and interface with the customer at the same time. So you actually can get advisors out of this.
Mike Simard: Technicians. And also when I went into that side of the industry, I didn't realize, you know, being part of the institute and ROO and the legacy evolution of this wonderful thing that they're doing here at the summit. I didn't realize how much they need there too. And we can share and learn from both sides of that industry.
Mike Simard: The tire and lube business and the comprehensive model. It's very interesting how they can share and grow together. 
Carm Capriotto: Why don't I hear a lot about that here in the States, and it's going through my mind. Well, they don't want to compete with Jiffy. You must have Jiffy Lubes up there. I 
Mike Simard: think we have two other quick lubes in Fairbanks.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. 
Mike Simard: Wow. It's then us. Okay. And then you have the dealership Fast lubes, of course. 
Carm Capriotto: Okay. So when I think of what you did as a proving ground, if you will, for talent. To feed growth of your other comprehensive stores as I think you called them. Why wouldn't we be thinking of doing that here? 'cause I don't know a lot of independent professional shops that own quick lubes.
Carm Capriotto: I think they have quick lube bays. I get that. I know a bunch of people that have quick lube bays. It's probably an incubation for talent, but it's a brilliant move. 
Mike Simard: Well, I guess I didn't really think of it until you asked me about it. The dealership does it for obvious reasons. They service the same brand.
Mike Simard: Yeah. I have a couple of friends that have done it. I find there's a few of us out there doing it. I can tell you one thing. We also have a couple of gas stations. Now, the reason why we bought them is because they were great quality shops already in excellent locations, and Fairbanks just doesn't have a lot of opportunity to buy shops.
Mike Simard: So I can tell you one thing though, if you can do one thing really well and get really good at it and don't do 27 things and try to do them all really well. Doing one thing really well is easier. And when you say that, you mean 
Carm Capriotto: oil changes 
Mike Simard: Really well. So if you just, if you do tires or you just do lube or you do comprehensive, but we do that and we'd sell gas, and then we have a tire distribution system.
Mike Simard: So I. The complexity of it is challenging, and so maybe that's one reason why not everybody's doing that. 
Carm Capriotto: Okay, got it. The lube centers, are they finding work for your comprehensive, your four other stores? Yes. That's the other benefit. 
Mike Simard: So they, we have a little internal referral system. Okay. We also at this time have branded them differently, so if you go to our website, you won't see that tire and lube model on there.
Mike Simard: Okay. Yeah. Because customers are expecting different things. You, in a convenience store, you expect one thing, you go into a big grocery store, you expect another thing. And so we wanted to be able to still provide to our small communities the opportunity to get the kind of service that they associate with that type of store or that brand.
Carm Capriotto: This is fascinating. I'm with Mike Sard from Fairbanks, Alaska from Sard Automotive, four stores, actually seven locations all together, a couple of quick loses and a tire distribution place. Is this the only place that you're recruiting? No. And so that's the big thing. I mean, you know, listen to my listener, you know, Carm, I'm interested in everything in the industry and including this man from Alaska.
Carm Capriotto: I've always wanted to do a story on mushing. Your mush dogs. 
Mike Simard: Oh, you're gonna come up sometime, right? And see us? Yeah. Yeah, we 
Carm Capriotto: are. Yeah. Yeah. How many hours is that? I mean, from Florida here, 
Mike Simard: driving or flying? You know, it's only like 13, 15 hours. So it's 
Carm Capriotto: only 13 or 15 hours to fly. That's right. Like to Florida.
Carm Capriotto: Yeah, but from Buffalo, maybe what? 10? Add 
Mike Simard: two, three more hours. Go to Boston and then go, 
Carm Capriotto: oh, I live near 
Mike Simard: Toronto. Jets are fast. Okay. You can make it. No excuse. You wanna go Tracy? Next summer. Tracy wants to go take you fishing. Oh, maybe you can bring Michael Smith or somebody. There's, oh my God, 
Carm Capriotto: what I'm telling you, I would, I 
Mike Simard: can buy fuel.
Carm Capriotto: We'll have 'em buy fuel. It would be a blast to hang out with a whole group of, if you ever get a group of institute people that want to just come up for the Alaskan trip of a lifetime, I'm in. 
Mike Simard: Oh, we had Bates and Waffler, and you did Casey last year. We do that. They know how it works. You buy fuel for my, and maybe a bottle of Kraken and then I take a minute when they want to go, oh my God.
Mike Simard: We could do a podcast out to see. Would you like that on Starlink, huh? Yes sir. Okay, done. You continue 
Carm Capriotto: to stretch this balloon here. Maybe you help me 
Mike Simard: recruit. That's not a conflict of interest. We'll, even, well, 
Carm Capriotto: let's talk. I'll buy the fuel. Alright, so let's talk about that, which is where I was going like, Hey, let's go.
Carm Capriotto: Was kind of going down that rabbit hole of. Anybody from the us you see your ads and say, I think I want to go up there where it's cold and there's no sun. Or where there's a need and I can fill it. How do you wanna look? I love that. How do you wanna look at that? I love that. You know? Oh, that's perfect.
Carm Capriotto: That's the exact answer. I see what happens with the sun on my head. Yeah. Too much. Yep. It's making it hardened a little bit from the north. Yeah. 
Mike Simard: I had to buy sunscreen. 
Carm Capriotto: Day one man from the North country, was it the Game of Thrones? Anyway, but I digress. Recruiting, I mean, is it all Alaskan talent you're finding?
Mike Simard: So we continue to evolve in recruiting. I sat down the other day and wrote a well over a couple weeks, a 200 page playbook on recruiting. Just try to dump everything out on my knowledge and Oh wow. This Playbook builder called The Way Book when our coach said many years ago, you gotta recruit. It's coming.
Mike Simard: He was right. And especially in Alaska it became more noticeable. A very small place to, to pull from. And uh, especially since COVID, you know, I think the attrition, people moving around more and more everywhere. And so we recruit, had some really good talent from Florida. It's really weird, Texas. I can't seem to get anybody outta the northwest.
Mike Simard: You think that'd be natural? It's like one plane ride. Just go over the border. But we recruit all over. So we're hoping though, in the next couple years. With, shoot, I think we're close. Like I said, between six and eight apprentices now. That next couple years, they're gonna start getting their master program in a little more time in saddle.
Mike Simard: And so maybe we have a little less room for the people down here now. We'll keep growing shops that'll, if it's right to do so and so we'll continue to, to 
Carm Capriotto: my listener. Don't be pissed that I'm trying to talk to Mike to recruit great talent to go up to Alaska. But my curiosity of where you find great people, then you say, yeah, people, they want a life change.
Carm Capriotto: If the whole family comes up, do you getting single people going up? 
Mike Simard: Yeah. And of course we wouldn't recruit from our friends, so we're not gonna do that here. Sure. We all have a hard time. So we'd be happy to share. That's smart. We do share with our friends. That's smart. Yeah. Like this is how we find technicians and so I wanna help the industry, so I'm not gonna try to pull people other shops, but obviously we don't wanna hold people back.
Mike Simard: So actually I prefer a support system, but we're not gonna discriminate against anybody. So I. We go through a very long process. I can give you the overview if you want. Sure. We've done some stuff on social. I've been in Texas before meetings with like, Hey, that guy in Alaska, and usually I'm out at sea saying, come join us for Alaska, so I gotta sell it a little bit.
Mike Simard: Yeah, I get it. Yeah. And so we have multiple parts of the leadership team, of our leaders, and we all recruit. We talk to them and we kind of reconvene and say, how's this working? What do you think about this position? We really talk about the trial. We do a job trial. If they pass all the interviews, they come up for two weeks.
Mike Simard: We pay them, they work with us. Every shop is a loaner toolbox and they work under the lead tech. And then we have a conversation. We take 'em out to dinner, how's it going? And then we give 'em a pretty substantial relocation package if we make that full-time job offer. And we'll move a whole family up. 
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Carm Capriotto: Well, sometimes you just need a little motivation to write a policy. If only you had something to review and then make your own. You can save so much valuable time when you can grab a document from our library, make a few adjustments for your shop, and move to your next task. There are more than 350 searchable documents with new documents arriving soon@automotivemanagementnetwork.com.
Carm Capriotto: If there's a job fit, you're gonna do what's right. That's right for them. That's right. 
Mike Simard: And then we'll house 'em for the first 90 days as well. Yeah, on top of that. And so usually it's enough to get started. That's an 
Carm Capriotto: expensive, 
Mike Simard: it's very expensive. Whoa. I just actually calculated it three days ago. I 
Carm Capriotto: don't know if you want me to tell you what it costs, but Yeah.
Carm Capriotto: I'm so curious. I'm sure my audience is, I mean, 
Mike Simard: It might scare people. It shouldn't be super 
Carm Capriotto: secret, but it's a reality of life. What it takes to, for you to recruit into Alaska can, I guess. Yeah. 20 grand 
Mike Simard: total cost more. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. Yeah. Can I jump up another 10? 
Mike Simard: If you don't count the money you lost because maybe someone left.
Carm Capriotto: Okay. Yeah. 
Mike Simard: I think it was in the 30 something thousand. Now this is providing them 10,000 plus and then you're providing for the salary when they come up. Yeah. And then your time. It depends, however you wanna break it out. And if you indeed spend and sponsor, there's other ways to do it. That's the current mode.
Mike Simard: And I remember when I had a single one or two stores thinking that a recruitment fee or whatever, it's like, how am I gonna run my store? How am I gonna make payroll? How am I gonna serve customers? How am I gonna fix cars and recruit? That's what we had to do. Right? People don't understand what that takes.
Mike Simard: And it's harder now, 
Carm Capriotto: but you figured it out through. The right profit, the right gross margins, the right sales structure, the right everything. I mean, people can't be listening to this podcast and saying, I don't know how he does it, but you do. And you do it because you have great disciplines, good structures, I'm sure.
Carm Capriotto: Great programs and policies and people and culture. That's right. And all of that allows you to spend that kind of money. Now are you recruiting one or two a year? One every couple of years. Like that 
Mike Simard: depends how much you grow and it depends how well you take care of the people you had. Right? And it depends on how sticky you can make your company.
Mike Simard: So the idea is that people matter. And I think it really comes down to the continual evolution of our understanding. Our ability to find people that, that believe in our values and believe in our purpose. And then of course, Alaska is very unique. So the thing I can tell people, my recommendation to people is like, every place you are okay, has a unique thing about it.
Mike Simard: Now, I wouldn't wanna live in Arizona anytime soon because I was talking to Arizona and friends. I'm like, every day you get up, it's the same except that three days of rain. So for me, I like change. Okay. And so, but that's very appealing to somebody that maybe is sick of the cold or sick of the rain. No, I got it.
Mike Simard: So the grass looks greener on every side of the fence. So find your, you know, unique selling point for your Yeah. Company. But what about your community? And you will find people that want to come to you. And so you have to start that relationship. Obviously you have to start that connection. And then make sure it's a fit, and then you will make mistakes just like any technician minded person like myself.
Mike Simard: And just keep learning, 
Carm Capriotto: keep growing. Mike, what happens if you get hit by a bus tomorrow? People gonna handle it. 
Mike Simard: Well, 
Carm Capriotto: my attorney 
Mike Simard: told me to raise my life insurance, so Okay. That I did that part. Well, good. That's get your will, get your affairs 
Carm Capriotto: in order, get all that in order. But you're gone for a couple of weeks.
Carm Capriotto: You got a great team that's just charging ahead. I mean, the culture, the kind of people tell us you don't have to leave for two weeks. You could leave for, you know, work. Three days at the shop and two at home. As long as you have the right team, and obviously you've had to build that. Yeah. 
Mike Simard: And still learning, still growing.
Mike Simard: You know, I think obviously you can't start that way if you're running a single store. You've gotta pour in your people. I think it was just like, Dan, just like a lot of people talked about at this summit here, is find somebody that you can pour into, find somebody that wants it, find somebody that wants to learn.
Carm Capriotto: I love the word pour into, but they have to have the capacity to drink that Kool-Aid, don't they? Yeah. Yeah, they do. And sometimes you believe in the person, but they don't get what you're trying to do. 
Mike Simard: I'm an activator, right? Yes. So, and I have Woo, and then all those things. So that I'm really good at getting people started.
Mike Simard: And one person said for me from one of my strengths is I've gotten older, getting older, approaching 50. You start, hopefully wisdom comes in with less hair and more gray isn't, wait a minute. That's the idea. I think wisdom, I'm still acquiring it. I'm asking for it and I seem to get a lot of lessons to teach me it, but yeah.
Mike Simard: So you get kicked in the ass and instead of failing backwards, you fail forward. Yeah, exactly. So really trying to learn how to 
Carm Capriotto: do that better. So how do you guys survive the rollercoaster of business and weather and stuff like that? 
Mike Simard: So again, the institute's done a good job. I'm not here to sell the institute.
Mike Simard: Right. But I have some really good coaches that help us plan, forecast. Yeah. You gotta scroll away. What's that? Yeah. Because you're the leader, like you're helping feed all these mouths, all these people relying on you. The weight of leadership. So weight of responsibility. So like right now, first quarter's kind of slow.
Mike Simard: So you have to be ready to weather that storm. 
Carm Capriotto: Do you stop marketing? Do you keep marketing? You know, there's, people are saying, well, I'm really busy. I'm gonna, I'm gonna pull my marketing back, and then all of a sudden they're only four days out instead of eight days out, and then they want to turn it on.
Carm Capriotto: I. But it's tough to turn it on and have an instant result. 
Mike Simard: Right. And when the market and the customer, the demand's not there, or it's around the holidays, they don't always have the money. It's kinda like recruiting. Do you recruit when that person leaves or do you do it before? Yeah, so we really learn that stuff now.
Mike Simard: You can listen to the coaches, you should really listen to coaches, but a lot of us are stubborn. A lot of us are a personalities and like, oh, I'm gonna figure it out myself. Right. Well then you get burned and you get hurt and you can choose to either cry or fail forward, like you said. We 
Carm Capriotto: could do hours on.
Carm Capriotto: I didn't listen to my coach and here's what happened. Yeah. And now I regret. I 
Mike Simard: was right like two times though. I'll just say, 
Carm Capriotto: okay, 
Mike Simard: that's okay. Out of 20 years, two out 20 years, I remember 
Carm Capriotto: two out of how many 
Mike Simard: things they told you. Hundreds, right? Yeah. And with my wife, I think I was right. Less times. I'm just saying that was married for longer.
Mike Simard: But my wife's always right. That's why I'm happily married one time, but 
Carm Capriotto: that's it. She'll listen to this and so you're, hi, nice to meet you. Yep. Long distance. Sorry hun, please don't think terrible of me. No. Type A. What did you call yourself a few minutes ago? Oh, an 
Mike Simard: activator. An 
Carm Capriotto: activator. What kind of skills do you delegate?
Carm Capriotto: 'cause you just don't like to do 'em? 
Mike Simard: Well, it's funny. That's where I was thinking about the wisdom part. Like we didn't stage this at all. I've learned some of us have read the book E Os or Traction. Oh yeah, 
Carm Capriotto: sure. Are you doing that? 
Mike Simard: I. Yeah, we're actually going through the scaling up process, which, okay.
Mike Simard: Which I found out is where, and you're the visionary. You're the visionary. I'm the visionary all the way. I read a book like Rocket of Fuel and I'm like, yeah, so it's okay to be me. Like this is like, I know everything about me. It's okay. I know. So what I have now up there is somebody that compliments me really well.
Mike Simard: She's been with me 12, 13 years and she like, I'm a high di. And I know I'm using a lot of the profiling things and stuff, so I'm just a driven Sure. Like a driven coach. Like I wanna win but I wanna win together. And she's a very high sc so it's a very complimentary so, and if she hears me say this, she'll be a little concerned 'cause she don't like when I say the word friction or a little bit conflict.
Mike Simard: So there's some of that sometimes. 
Carm Capriotto: Yeah. But an SC should be a great integrator. Exactly. Does she want to be an integrator? 
Mike Simard: Yeah. Okay. So you're finding a right role for her? Yeah, and very complimentary. I'll cast the vision, but she's more wired for lingering behind and supporting. Okay. And making sure they're getting all the details.
Mike Simard: Yeah, they need to. So it's like a perfect thing. I don't like great details. I don't like to slow down. And S As and C's. I love the details and really wanna make sure it's, are you high D or high A? High D I'm like 99, 98. 
Carm Capriotto: Okay. 
Mike Simard: Alright. Depends if you depends. 
Carm Capriotto: We're partying, 
Mike Simard: we're gonna have fun or we're gonna fight.
Mike Simard: So whichever one. 
Carm Capriotto: Wow. Not 
Mike Simard: fight, but 
Carm Capriotto: you're an all. We'll fight for my team, like a good coach. You're an all in di or DI. Yeah. Wow. It's fun. I have to tell you, and I know a lot about disc. I went through all kinds of training, got a textbook on it. I've got a great, oh, by the way, go to my website.
Carm Capriotto: Remarkable results is slash downloads are on my downloads page. On the website, there's this great chart on disc for your salespeople to see. I think it's so cool to see a high D that has high I high. I could get along with that person. You and I could be friends for a long time. But for me, a high I to work for only a D, that's a tough thing.
Carm Capriotto: Unless the D is willing to listen to my crazy visionary off the wall. Hey, it's, you know, this is good stuff. It's gonna be fun. I had a boss like that. But ultimately, I believe we ended up becoming really close and good friends at the run of my career. I almost believe I really do that. I changed him a little bit from being such a, just a driver.
Carm Capriotto: Tough D. A tough D, and I got some of his D. When you had to go out and do stuff, you had to make things happen and you want to go out as a high I, Hey, come on everybody. We're gonna do this thing. They say, okay, we're gonna have another fun day of really new important policies with km. And you know, I needed my lu razzi in the room, my high D, to say, alright, here's what we're gonna do right now.
Carm Capriotto: So, and I find that fascinating in building and growing culture in the business. Is it all you or is you bring the team together? Do they know? We do what we love to do. This is the kind of company we have. We take care of people, we take care of you, we take care of the clients. How have you built this great culture?
Carm Capriotto: We're still 
Mike Simard: working on 
Carm Capriotto: it. Okay. We're not, that's a great answer. Not answer, by the way. Honestly, we're not. I love that 
Mike Simard: and I am, you know what? Our values is excellence, so I always want to keep growing. I'm very mindful of that, trying to stay humble. I think the biggest thing that I'm continuing to get, hopefully, some more wisdom on is really in the leadership team, really looking for people that we can compliment each other and also making sure we have the skills to not like get stuck in a certain place like we did the Working Genius the other day.
Mike Simard: Won't go too deep into that. I'm still learning about it, but I really resonated with, I could clearly see what I love to do and what I don't love to do. And then, but then I looked at back at DISC or some of those people on my team. I was like, but you do. And so what I realized, the more I stay in that visionary space, casting the Y, I just, I probably put eight hours in that beach, or I wore a trench.
Mike Simard: And a lot of like earbuds in vacuum, just talking to my people. Yeah. Yeah. And literally, I swear we talked about why, and Dan Clark talked about why. Yeah. And the why. It's like, I know, how do I get through? Like they didn't see that coming and I've been talking about it for a couple months. It's like, how do I get through and talking to my wife or talking to.
Mike Simard: Chief of staff and it's like, how do I get through and help from a perspective of Michael Smith and I talk all the time, and I think I wore him out on the beach too for two different walks, but really coming down to if you can get someone else to see the vision and see the why. Okay. And now that's where I need to live.
Mike Simard: Now I also know how to do the how. So, but what's dangerous for me, I'm finding as I'm getting older, is that if I stand how too long in those details, that's probably not the best space for me at the size of this company right now. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: When I was listening to Dan Clark and I didn't hear his entire presentation today.
Carm Capriotto: He did say it's the why, not the what. And I wrote that down and I was impacted by it because when you talk to people about their why, it's tough for a lot of people. It's tough to know and to figure out. Appreciate, understand their why, but by saying it's not your what, that person maybe can back into the why.
Carm Capriotto: He, it's not what you do, it's why you do it. And I thought that could be a game changer for somebody struggling with their why. Yeah. Now I get the whole how thing. I really understand the how thing, how you know, it's like who not how. Right. Another great book that really helps you understand it's Dan Sullivan.
Carm Capriotto: Dan Sullivan. Yeah. It's, when I hired Tracy was Barry Barrett, who sent me the book and I was telling him about me and Tracy talking and he sent me the book. I realized that she was my how 
Mike Simard: she's a who that can figure out the how that, yeah, exactly. You focus on what you need. Exactly 
Carm Capriotto: right. It's amazing.
Carm Capriotto: We're a tiny little company, but in your company I can see the value that it brings. 
Mike Simard: Wow. Yeah. Actually, just funny, I picked up another book called Who. By Jeff Smart. Okay. Top grading. I think his father wrote the book all about top grading and interviewing and having a players and his book's called Who?
Mike Simard: And it's like, oh my gosh. It's like Dan Sullivan and him had a conversation. Yeah. And he does it a different way. It's a little bit different take on it, but I think that's the whole wisdom part. I was saying that I'm hoping and praying I get smarter as I go and stop beating my head against the wall at times.
Mike Simard: And if you can find those that are really good at something, 'cause you don't have to be the smartest guy in the room, like get over that thing. Right. Find someone that's just loves doing that one thing. And there's things I just don't like to do and I love leading teams, but there's certain parts of that I do really well and there's certain parts I can do and I need to do.
Mike Simard: And when you're a single store owner, have a couple stores, guess what, like which hat you're wearing today? It's tough. It's tough. Yeah. 
Carm Capriotto: Hope to get smart. You just said that about a minute ago. I hope to get smart. You will. Because you hope. Because you know that's something you have to do for so many that just don't want to get ahead, that are languishing and struggling and really hurt our industry.
Carm Capriotto: They don't want to get smart 'cause they're afraid what it looks like. Yeah. I've been there. 
Mike Simard: That guy's still in there. He still talks to me. 
Carm Capriotto: And what do you do? Do you just grab him by the throat and throw 'em in the corner? Well, 
Mike Simard: I tell you, sometimes I lose the battles, but gonna win the war. 
Carm Capriotto: Oh. Is he screaming at you or just whispering in your ear?
Carm Capriotto: Oh, you'd name it. They'll try every little thing. And I 
Mike Simard: don't wanna go too far into that. The devil in one shoulder, angel in the other. But you know, as Michael talked about, and Dan talked about it, you know, we have a soul, we have a spirit, we have our body, we have things, forces, environments around us. We have people that talk to us in the past that are still talking to us that weren't very nice and things.
Mike Simard: And so what you said was very important. I think you have to first believe. I mean really we're such amazing humans, right? You have to first believe you can. I love what Dan said. Dan said today. What he say? Something about when your wise bigger than your why not? Yeah. That's what I took 
Carm Capriotto: away. When your wise bigger than your why not?
Carm Capriotto: And that to me, I was like, helps you understand your why. Mike, thank you so much for the, I enjoy this to a degree that I believe there's a lot of people out there. We always try to break these barriers that, you know, I just believe people have in general, but there's barriers in our industry of people wanting to jump and get ahead.
Carm Capriotto: I, it was a great episode to hear what you're doing and how you're doing it, so I appreciate you being here. Mike Smart's automotive Fairbanks. Anchorage, Alaska, seven locations. God bless you, man. Yes, thank you so much. 
Mike Simard: Yeah, thanks Carmen. 
Carm Capriotto: Thanks for being on board to listen and learn from the Premier Automotive aftermarket podcast.
Carm Capriotto: Until next time.
 

130 - Look Good, Feel Good, Perform Great – How Branding and Culture Drive Team Excellence

130 - Look Good, Feel Good, Perform Great – How Branding and Culture Drive Team Excellence
July 2nd, 2025 - 00:58:42
 
Show Summary:
What if your shop’s uniform was more than just workwear? In this episode, Jimmy Lea is joined by Leah Grubb, founder of Green Bolt Printing, to discuss how automotive shops can turn everyday apparel into a strategic tool for branding, leadership, and culture. Leah shares the origin of her company, born from firsthand experience in multi-shop growth, and explains how the right look can foster pride, unity, and even performance. From choosing the right fabric to using color with purpose, this conversation unpacks the overlooked power of uniforms...and how to get them right.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
Leah Grubb, Founder & CEO of Green Bolt Printing
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:00:23] - Apparel is often the first impression before a customer ever visits your website or talks to staff.
[00:02:35] - Leah shares her journey from rapid shop expansion to founding Green Bolt Printing out of operational necessity.
[00:04:47] - Reframing uniforms as a shop's “constant visual identity” enhances culture, pride, and morale.
[00:08:16] - Rebranding with color and design transformed the team’s enthusiasm, professionalism, and sense of identity.
[00:10:15] - Differentiating technician uniforms still matters, even if they aren’t customer-facing.
[00:14:24] - Biggest mistake shops make: not involving their team in apparel choices.
[00:19:10] - Fit, function, and thoughtful design choices affect confidence and job satisfaction.
[00:24:04] - Unified looks can range from strict uniforms to flexible, branded individuality, find your shop’s identity.
[00:37:10] - Merch stores only work for retail-forward brands or customer loyalty rewards, not just selling uniforms.
[00:49:43] - Use color intentionally: blacks evoke sleek professionalism, while red, blue, or green can cue emotion and expertise.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16XGiHzhxKY
 
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or goodnight, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. It is a beautiful day outside. The power is out in Las Vegas, and that's okay. We're okay with that. We have such exciting conversations to happen today. I'm so excited to have you here with me, my friends, as we have this conversation to talk about something that affects every customer interaction.
Jimmy Lea: Today we are gonna talk about this and before any word is spoken. There's something that happens, and our discussion today is with the founder of Green Bolt Printing. She helps automotive shops all over the country turn their gear into a leadership tool, from bold branding to team building through apparel.
Jimmy Lea: She understands how a look can drive culture, confidence, and performance. She's just not about putting logos on shirts. It's about uniting teams through identity. Give a big round of applause as we help to welcome the incredible Leah Grub. Leah, I'm so excited that you are here with us today to talk about your business and what it is you do to affect the shop's company culture and everything that goes with it.
Leah Grubb: Me too. Thank you so much for having me. I'm looking really forward to today. 
Jimmy Lea: Yes. This is gonna be a great conversation that we're gonna have to talk. I know you've got a lot put together with a PowerPoint and a presentation. So with that I'm gonna turn it to you as questions come up, just be understanding that we're gonna interrupt and ask some questions.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Because marketing is so much fun. This interaction happens before a website. I mean, it's not a website. This is our apparel, this is what we're doing that we wear. Has a uniform to be part of the team. Every team has a uniform and we're now part of it. So Leah, we turn it to you. 
Leah Grubb: Awesome. Thank you so much, Jimmy.
Leah Grubb: Hello. Hello everyone, and thank you again for joining me on this Wednesday afternoon and on a holiday week, nonetheless. I wanna start kind of with the concept and how we frame things before we dive in here, right? Because up until today, what you were to work right, is just kind of that what you wear to work.
Leah Grubb: So instead, I'm want to talk about how it can be so much more than just a uniform and instead your shop's visual identity. And I'm gonna be using that word. A lot, and I'm a bit of a fast talker too here. So, because these t-shirts and polos are something that you wear to work every single day, they can be the very vehicle that creates a feel good, ready to perform environment that achieves excellence.
Leah Grubb: But before we dive in, I do want to tell a little bit of my story here. Because right before I founded Greenbelt, I was working as a marketing director for two local automotive shops. One of them was C and J Automotive. And there I am, right there on the end. And at the time we had two shops. One was our HQ that was founded in 1988 and the other one was a second shop.
Leah Grubb: About 20 minutes down the road that was established. Very recently, I guess 2015, so 10 years ago, comparatively to 1988. Then within about a span of a year and a half, we expanded to not just the third location, not just the fourth location, but five locations in, yeah, about a year and a half in total.
Leah Grubb: Within the next closest one being 40 minutes from our hq, one being in a completely different state. New Jersey. Now you could say that we were learning how to build a rocket ship on the way up, or a parachute on the way down, depending on your outlook for that day, because if that wasn't enough, we decided to rebrand and revamp all of these locations.
Leah Grubb: And this was all at the time of. That post COVID supply chain issue, remember this the toilet paper shortages of that time. So it was a bit of a headache to say the least. And doing it at this scale and in this timeframe exposed a lot of flaws in the screen printing and embroidery industry that I thought could be approved upon.
Leah Grubb: So much so that when my employers decided that, that we decided that we could do something better with this. So Jack, who is right there in the center, and then my other employer at the time who owned a collision shop bootstrapped the idea and Greenbelt was born. And I'm saying all of this because I'm sharing a few other stories from my time in this career because Greenbelt truly was born out of necessity and not just general necessity.
Leah Grubb: Right. Actual specific necessities from growing auto repair shops, and that started with the rebranding process. We had to dive deeper into our brand and our visual identity. And where is that? Not if the most prevalent than in the clothing that we're wearing every single day. You don't need to go through a rebrand of your apparel to do all this.
Leah Grubb: Actually, the main thing I want you to do is to reframe your idea of what uniforms are as you know them, right? Uniforms are for identification, for functionality. They help people identify who works where, like going up to someone in a red shirt at Target and hoping they work there. 'cause a lot of people are wearing red t-shirts.
Leah Grubb: So, or functionally they're just more durable for the wear and tear of the day or the task at hand, or protective, like high visibility gear. But what if we took that one step further and recognized uniforms for their higher purpose that they can serve as a consistent or constant visual identity? And that's gonna be our tongue twister of the day because.
Leah Grubb: If you move past uniforms, just being used for purely identification purposes or purely functional needs, a uniform can reinforce a shared identity, build a sense of pride, boost morale, and set expectations, ideally positive ones, both internally and externally with your customers. Because the reality is uniforms are one of the most visible, consistent expressions of your brand and your culture.
Leah Grubb: Your team wears them every day. Your customers see them first. I. That's powerful. So when you start thinking of uniforms as a constant visual identity and not just the thing you're wearing to work every single day, you unlock their real value as a tool to shape how people feel about your shop and how they feel inside it.
Leah Grubb: So another story time again, right? With c and j, this new concept, this new way of thinking came into play during that rebrand because we especially had to think about where this brand was going to be seen. Would it look good on a mailer, on social media, on a street sign, and of course on people and on our.
Leah Grubb: Buildings. So the current logo already had to go through some refinement to look good for social media, right? There's our social media profile photo, and then it had to go through more refinement to be cost effective, and in some cases even possible, as in just actually able to be embroidered and put on physical products.
Leah Grubb: So then it became this, and then if you look at these suites of logos, it's. A classic auto repair shop logo. You have the wings. And some might say it's dated, especially if we use the full logo and some may say it's cluttered with those cars or things like that, but it's simple, clean to the point.
Leah Grubb: We were a local family owned, rooted in history or vintage depending on when you were born for 1988 at Auto Repair Shop with a friendly and personal service that we wanted to be known for, that our customers knew us for, but we wanted anyone for their first impression to also know us for whether we were there to talk with them about our history or not.
Leah Grubb: And thus our new brand suite was developed and our identity was finally realized, not just in the logo, but in now some red and blue colors that fed into this new visual identity that created a sense of pride within our team. And everyone could agree this was our shop and this is our look so much more so than the black and white chrome or and what it was beforehand.
Leah Grubb: And just look at the, okay. I have a 
Jimmy Lea: question. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. 
Jimmy Lea: That is a significant rebrand to go from the black and white to adding color to being the red and blue. What did that do to the team? The performance, the culture, the feel of the shop? What happened internally when you did this? 
Leah Grubb: Yes. So when we first revealed this new logo, I mean, the reactions were just like that sick.
Leah Grubb: Like it's a logo you could put on a crew neck or a t-shirt, and it looks like maybe a vintage, I don't know, like alcohol brand or some of something else that you would've dug up out of your dad's old box of stuff in the attic. And now it's like worth. A lot more money. Right. There was so much more character to it where people now are just like, no, put it on a t-shirt for today.
Leah Grubb: It's become a brand more so that not just only for the uniform and what they wear to work every day, but they're getting casual t-shirts and casual hoodies that they wanna wear out and about because it just looks cool. It looks vintage. It's a, it's. Providing them a certain identity out and about even that's related to their work.
Leah Grubb: So it's advertising on our end, but it's also just something they feel good about wearing. There's pride in what they're wearing now. It's more fun. You know, we were a really fun shop. 
Jimmy Lea: It changes how they show up. It changes how the, their mindset is, it changes how they show up for work every day.
Jimmy Lea: You know, even to the technicians. So technicians in the back of the shop, they're not necessarily always seen. Usually it's the front counter, the front desk. Where you've got the polos and whatnot. Yeah. But then you've got t-shirts. 
Leah Grubb: Look at that kind of comparison in our teen photo from before with the old brand.
Leah Grubb: And we're all black and white and it's just a kind of typical thing to now how we put this brand together, red and blue, and we actually strip it away from the off from white to like an off white. So again, vintagey, with time beginning that timelessness and, you know, nodding back to our founding in 1988 and now we're wearing all colors, we're wearing dark navy, we're wearing gray, we're wearing some reds, and we can still and have fun with it.
Leah Grubb: Right. 
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So John's got a question and I want to ask his question then I've got another question behind his. How important do you think it is that technicians who are not customer facing to have their uniforms as well, are you thinking logos matching or full uniforms? 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. So if they're not fully customer facing we can do less branding on it per se.
Leah Grubb: Right. So you, for someone customer facing, you might wanna have on the polo a left chest or even something on the back too for when they're turning around. Yeah. But if they're always in the back and they're not really engaging with customers, you could maybe just do one placement on the t-shirt one to still functionally.
Leah Grubb: Identify that this person works here, that this person working on your cars and someone random off the street, they work here. So you still want that identification aspect. 'cause that's gonna build accountability and just build some communication between the customer and the technician that you don't have to say like, oh, don't worry about that guy over there.
Leah Grubb: He does work here. We swear. But you can kind of pull it back and we get some cost effective options there. But you also have to again, consider what if that those one-off times when the customer does like, want to talk to the technician too, right. That they're still looking like you want them to represent the shop and how you want that to look, but doesn't have to be.
Leah Grubb: Full out matching with the service advisors and service managers in that way. 
Jimmy Lea: Okay. So, and back to your picture with the rebranding, you went from all black to a rainbow of colors. 
Jimmy Lea: What was the mindset or what's the algorithm? What's the idea of. Who gets to wear black? Who gets to wear gray?
Jimmy Lea: Who gets to wear blue? Who gets to wear the off white? What? What's the mindset there for the shop? 
Leah Grubb: Yeah, so for that mindset, we went with that functionality too. So we're still blending in the same pre ideas of a uniform with functionality and identification, but now we're just adding more identity and more values and more emotion into it.
Leah Grubb: So the technicians still are primarily wearing black. Because it's a dirty job, right? Like we're not having them going back in those light gray polos. We'd probably never see them looking like that color ever again. So pure utility, the technicians are all in black. But then we also have a line of a lot of casual t-shirts that they can wear out and about and are like, not allowed in the shop because they're nice, like ivory colored and things like that.
Leah Grubb: Whereas the service in the front, you know, it's a little bit of a less dirty job. Maybe you're in the back just every now and then, but they're not. It every single day. So they're able to wear those light gray polos, those red polos, the navy polos and things like that. 
Jimmy Lea: Cool, cool, cool. I love that. I love that.
Jimmy Lea: I, there was a shop I went into Eric, Eric has a screaming mullet from straight outta the seventies and eighties and in his shop, his technicians had the black uniforms, but their accent color specified. Master tech Shop foreman, nice. BT Tech, Ctech, general service. So you could look out into a big shop very quickly and easily to identify.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, yellow, that's the shop foreman, so he's over there. Red is the Atex and you could see where they are. And blue, and then green and gray. It was really cool how the shop used the uniform for identification, which also became a promotional. Yeah. Product as a technician studied, trained, passed, test, and advanced themselves.
Jimmy Lea: They could get a new uniform. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah, exactly. There's that certain pride that people can have in the shirt that they're wearing every day, and that's what we can imbue when we rethink right. Uniforms from, I gotta put this on every single day just to go to work and to write that constant visual identity.
Leah Grubb: I 
Leah Grubb: love that. 
Leah Grubb: And that's the one thing that we really had to do with that rebrand is like, okay, it's not just what we're wearing to work, like what value can we put into it that we can go and say, this isn't just a T-shirt, this isn't just your polo. When we're all wearing these together, you know, we're not just this group of individuals, this person off the street, we pulled in to do your oil change.
Leah Grubb: We're one team representing one mission and we look like a team and we act like a team and we can win like a team. So it's a team building, morale building thing when we're looking at each other and like, we're all in this together, you and that Polo and me and that t-shirt. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it.
Jimmy Lea: I love it. Okay, so you've been in this game for a minute. What's one of the biggest mistakes you see shops make when they're choosing gear for their teams, 
Leah Grubb: not involving their team members in the decision? As a manager or an owner. And yes, maybe you were working in a shop and you've moved into management and ownership and you like a certain T-shirt, so you get everyone that T-shirt, but t-shirts, hats, hoodies are the most personal thing I think we can choose, especially if you're gonna have them wearing it every single day.
Leah Grubb: So if you pick something even as simple as like you love a hundred percent cotton. And how it feels. And then you have someone who comes in and you know, specifically I'm thinking of this shop in Florida. It's hot. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. 
Leah Grubb: And they need something that really wicks the moisture away. But cotton, while it does that, I.
Leah Grubb: Then you're just kind of sitting in your sweat all day. Oh yeah, 
Jimmy Lea: you gotta peel that shirt off. 
Leah Grubb: You gotta peel that off. So when you're, you know, maybe in the comfy, cozy office for a little bit, it's fine. But when you talk with the technicians and they're just literally drenched in that shirt and they're not comfortable working and that's one of the main, they're just thinking that in the back of their head, the entire time they're doing a repair or whatever they're working on, or dealing, interacting with their team members, it just is kind of that little.
Leah Grubb: Rock in the shoe that is gonna start eating away at something. So involving your team members in how and what you're choosing, whether that is a cotton T-shirt or is it a blend T-shirt or is it a fully polyester t-shirt, which is great for really sunny locations. 
Jimmy Lea: Okay. Very cool. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. 
Jimmy Lea: Very cool.
Jimmy Lea: So, what about, are you gonna talk about colors? Yeah. Maybe I'll hold my color question. Okay. 
Leah Grubb: I'm getting, so how can we Right. Create kind of this identity Yeah. And create that environment. And one of the main key considerations that managers can consider is of course function. And we talked about this right?
Leah Grubb: The uniform should support the work. You're not gonna get a technician in a white T-shirt unless you want to give him a white t-shirt every single day. That's up to you. But it needs to hold up to the grease and the wear. It needs to be comfortable in the heat, especially if you don't have AC in your shop.
Leah Grubb: And it can offer utility with as something as simple as pockets, which that was a whole heated thing with another shop on whether or not to have pockets on their shirt. And, you know, everyone had a say in that. The next thing, of course, would be fit. How well it fits is one thing. The size is one thing because that poor fit, right?
Leah Grubb: Whether it's super sweaty and it doesn't function for them or it's just too big or too and baggy. Core fit can make someone feel uncomfortable and overlooked as well within your culture. And I don't think anyone wants to develop a culture where you're just like, ah, here's that for you. And I don't really care about your thoughts or considerations or how you feel in it.
Leah Grubb: When a uniform fits well, it can make people focus better and feel more confident. So example, like what happens when you hire someone who's seven XL tall. True story. Someone hired a seven XLT technician. Or more likely what happens with a lot of shop owners is you hire your first woman service advisor or woman technician, right?
Leah Grubb: Yeah. And what are you going to do? Go back to your office, see rummage through your bag of all the old uniforms you bought from all the previous orders and he got something close. But don't, you know, tell the seven x Excel tall guy like, you know, maybe don't. Bend over too much or reach up too high.
Leah Grubb: 'cause now your shirt's just gonna ride up. Or the woman, you know, just appears a mend. It doesn't 
Jimmy Lea: fit right, 
Leah Grubb: it doesn't fit right, and it just eats away at your self-consciousness. Like if you've ever put on a great jacket or your best fitting shirt and to go to your job interview or whatever it is, it makes you feel so much better and it provides that confidence.
Leah Grubb: And with that confidence, you can then go, in turn, give a better experience to your customers and give, provide better service. So. A lot of times our shop owners come to us to outfit these new, as in unique new hires because they don't have this uniform on the back stock in the back office somewhere.
Leah Grubb: And plus, they wanna be able to get some new and unique styles just for them. Whether it is big and tall or whether it is women's styles or you know, whether they're family, their team members are having new family members, then we can do little baby onesies for 'em. It's super cute, so. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's rad. It is 
Leah Grubb: always there.
Leah Grubb: The last thing to consider is design, and we're gonna dig really deep into design today, but the main takeaway here on is just to be thoughtful about it, right? It's not just how your uniform and how your apparel looks, it's what it says, right? Your design can reflect your shop's values and culture, whether it's.
Leah Grubb: A rugged, you know, blue collar shop or a brother's precise and clean and family oriented. The right uniform isn't about just something your team wears. It's what they represent. And that's what that new concept of a visual identity that's what I want you to keep in your back pocket kind of throughout.
Leah Grubb: Because I will still be using the term uniform moving forward because constant visual identity is a tongue twister. I think I have maybe maximum of 10 tries saying before it starts getting really muddled here. But bottom line, right? Your uniform is your constant visual identity. It's your daily opportunity to show your team who they are and to show your customers who you are.
Leah Grubb: And you get this right, it becomes a quiet but really powerful way to reinforce pride in your brand and in what you do. Unity within your team and boost performance within the team and therefore boosts customer satisfaction. So these three things are main things for Manu managers to consider.
Leah Grubb: But don't make any decisions, right? Like what we talked about before, involving your team. There's plenty of research on how you involving your team is that employee involvement and uniform decisions makes a huge difference when you involve them, even if it's just getting feedback on letting them vote between a few options.
Leah Grubb: It gives them a sense of ownership. It shows them that you value their comfort, their perspective, and how they represent the shop. That has ripple effects too, because people who feel heard are more likely to take pride in what they wear. They wear it consistently. They show up more confidently. And one of the studies I've looked into has even shown that uniform satisfaction, which is influenced by how much involvement they have in picking their uniform, is directly related to job satisfaction.
Leah Grubb: And that's a powerful connection right there. But on the flip side, if someone has no say in the uniform, they can start to feel like what they're wearing is a symbol of hierarchy, of disconnect. Something that's done to them instead of for them. So even if you're not redesigning from scratch, which most of you will not be small moments of input.
Leah Grubb: So surveys, wear tests. Quick feedback can go a long way in helping your team feel included, respected, and more connected to your shop's identity, which I think is something all shop owners kind of want, because at the end of the day, there's only one shop owner, right? Or whatever team of shop owners you have.
Leah Grubb: But how can you get that buy-in from everyone that you bring in here, other than just, you know. Paying them for the job well done. Right. And so one of the things we did at c and j during that rebrand was to have a team discussion and to actually use a questionnaire to get involvement in a formal way because.
Leah Grubb: People were we use the team meetings. We have a team meeting every Wednesday during lunch 'cause they already eat lunch together anyway, so now we just all join in there and kind of take over that lunch so we could talk. We talked about these things, but then we also followed up with a questionnaire, and this is a lot of questions in one slide, but all of these questions we followed up with now and people ranked them on a one to five scale.
Leah Grubb: So it was a pretty quick one to five kind of run through thing. This way, you know, we could accommodate some of our team members who weren't as opinionated in a team setting. They, we know they were just better over in communication or when we could talk to them alone on the side instead of in the group as a team.
Leah Grubb: And that's fine. And this questionnaire also had that open-ended box for them to put an input there. The key thing with this in doing this discussion and doing this questionnaire was that the next team meeting, we followed up again with the same discussion of what we talked about, what like us as management heard from the team, and then also a little bit of the results from the questionnaire because we wanted, again, the team to feel like, Hey, we heard you the first time we've reviewed what you did and the input that you just.
Leah Grubb: Given to the company. And then here's like what our next steps are. Here's what we're kind of gonna do now for the uniforms and things like that, because we heard you like, it's not just they shout it out into the ether and then where's the follow up, where's the follow through on that? And we wanted to, you know, clearly connect those dots from this conversation, this questionnaire, this result for you from you.
Leah Grubb: So, 
Jimmy Lea: wow. That's powerful. 
Leah Grubb: Yep. And then, so with that feedback in mind there's a lot of key and key fundamental conver considerations. Now we can get, talk about the fun part, sorry. And how we can actually build this identity, this brand, this. Uniform. And I do wanna shout out one of the quick studies I actually went through for this webinar and when we were building this uniform back in my c and j days be if anyone else wants to read through it, it really it's mainly about the hospitality industry and how the effective employee uniforms.
Leah Grubb: Affect employee satisfaction for hotels and restaurants. But if you do think about it a lot, auto repair shops are very much like in the hospitality business because every other auto repair shop could do an oil change. How well they do it, you know, is all up for debate, but it's, at the end of the day, it's that customer experience, the customer satisfaction, how they feel going into your shop and how they feel leaving it.
Leah Grubb: That is the differentiator between you and that shop down the road. So especially, you know, first impressions, setting the tone when they walk into that shop. When you think about when you walk into this fabulous hotel lobby versus. A Motel six lobby or something like that, or, and especially the team culture and the, and equaling the customer experience and that specifically your team culture has a huge impact on that customer experience and uniforms can really play into that and thus affect the satisfaction of your customers.
Leah Grubb: And some of the key recommendations from this were about designing the unified look using color intentionally. Offering Gears awards and involving your team, which we already discussed. So we're gonna talk mainly about one, two, and three on designing a unified look. So the first thing with designing that we kind of define what is the uniform, right?
Leah Grubb: Like what is it? Is it the same shirt we're wearing every single day or just what we wear to work? And there's a lot of variable ideas we have around that. So on one end, right, you have uniformed, it is the same shirt every single day. Same color too. Everyone's wearing the same color, everyone's wearing the same shirt.
Leah Grubb: It's consistent. It's highly consistent in the middle ground, which is where I think most of our shops are at, and where most shops do sit is unified, but with a bit of controlled variety, right? We all wear polos, but we have a choice between red, blue, and gray. So we have a few color options there. On the other end is what I like to call branded individuality.
Leah Grubb: So you can have a lot of product options. Maybe it's a polo or a button up, and a lot more different colors, maybe up to like five or six different colors in all of those that follow your brand palette. But there's a lot of variability there. And each one has its pros and cons. You can kind of see on one end you decrease in consistency from being highly uniformed to having more individual expression.
Leah Grubb: But with increased individual expression, oops, my keys were there. You can increase team pride and personal comfort because you have now more input that the team member can put into what they're wearing every single day, increasing your personal comfort and therefore increasing their pride. And like, I chose this.
Leah Grubb: Sure. It's a very narrow down selection of what they could choose from, but it wasn't, you're wearing this every single day, this color. That's what it is. It's, I have a choice. There's I really like this color and I look great in this color, and they can feel good about that. So let's look at some visual examples, right?
Leah Grubb: So Rehouse does a uniformed, high consistency look right? It's the same shirt, same color, every day, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And for. Those of you who follow Jamie's garage on YouTube, this is one of his three shops. Everyone wears Polos and the only choice they get is between pocket or no pocket.
Leah Grubb: And then when Jamie hires someone new, he can simply go to a store, purchase however many polos he needs, but in the case of a new hire, if they need just six, we made it super easy. So even the new hire or the manager can go in and do it without having to remember how much they need with these new hire bundles here.
Leah Grubb: So. But they are even across his brand. So his three shops are Rent House Elite, Motorworks, and Elite Auto and Tire. Three different logos, but all of them all wear all black. All polos, even the technicians, which I found very unique. And then the middle ground, I think where most people are at is something like what we do at c and j where everyone wears polos.
Leah Grubb: I'm specifically talking a lot about service because they are the more customer facing team members, and they're the ones that this impact of the feeling of the uniforms are gonna have the most impact on with the customers. So with c and j. They could pick between three colors, again, the gray Navy or red.
Leah Grubb: And specifically for them we do bundles of six because you never know when someone's doing laundry. You might need to run over into Monday with that fixed polo or something happens and you really need an extra polo during that midweek. And then I wouldn't recommend, usually with this middle ground more than five colors is, it's just a lot to pick from.
Leah Grubb: Three is a three's a pretty good safe number there. So. With c and j, we moved away from that black, right, and we moved on to just navy gray and red. And we'll talk about why, because of the feelings those colors evoke later. But for ordering, right, again, the shop manager could go into the store and of course buy two of each color.
Leah Grubb: But I. That's also dependent on the shop manager knowing what is exactly going into every new hire bundle when they hire someone new. And it's too many clicking, too many clicks for my liking. So we again, made that bundle and oh, look, they also need quarter zips as well. So we include those with all of our new services as well.
Leah Grubb: For that outerwear layering, especially since we're located outside of Philadelphia, weather is, I mean, it felt like winter two weeks ago and now it's like. The heat of summer here, so we can never guess that. And then on the final end of that spectrum is branded individuality. Flexible consistency where there's a lot of product options and a lot of colors to choose from within that colors within that brand color palette.
Leah Grubb: So Brown's Automotive is a four shop, MSO based out in New Mexico. And their main rule is that anyone in the front had to wear something with a collar shirt. That was their only and main rule. They didn't really care what color or what style it was. So there's both button up. And polos and what color it was up to their personal preference.
Leah Grubb: A person could buy the all light gray or all dark gray or you know, that lime green or that teal blue, but two colors were reserved just for management. So there's that differentiation again. So only black and only white was allowed to be worn by management, or specifically the owners in that case. Were able to wear that color so when they go into a shop, anyone, which is odd if they've never met them, but it's very easily identifiable to find them there.
Leah Grubb: Some additional considerations, right? You kind of see either shop leans towards button-ups or polos. And that's again, mainly a preference on what you want your identity to look like, because button-ups could tend to give off a more formal, traditional, precise. Five. You know, we take our work seriously.
Leah Grubb: We've been doing this for a while and it could be a great fit for any shop that wants to project that experience the technical skill or even a higher end service. You know, it's just a little more formal feeling. On the other hand, polos are, offer a more casual, modern, approachable look. They could say that we're friendly, easy to talk to.
Leah Grubb: We're here to help approachable feel. And it's great for shops that wanna focus on, you know, customer connection, quick service, community feel, things like that. And neither again is better or worse. It's about what fits your shop's identity. Are you gonna go for buttoned up and detail driven or more laid back and people first.
Leah Grubb: And again, none of those descriptors either are mutually exclusive. You could. Be people first in a button of, right. So, also don't forget to take into consideration some regional differences and preferences. I'm from outside of Philadelphia. Generally the Northeast is considered pretty preppy, especially the more north and the more east you go.
Leah Grubb: So polos could be considered more casual and modern depending on where you are. In a more laid back area. Like, in my head, I think California is pretty laid back or Hawaii even, right? Polos could be viewed as formal and you should be wearing more just like a t-shirt, and that's, that could be professional enough.
Leah Grubb: So, always take those into consideration. The key, again, is to be intentional. Don't just pick what's the cheapest or what you've always done. Choose a style that tells the right story to your team and to your customers. Every time they walk into that door. You also have branded versus unbranded attire.
Leah Grubb: And I'm not talking about just like the items you put your brand on, like versus not put your brand on like pants, which you may think could be undecorated or should never be decorated. But we actually do have a handful of clients that put their logo onto their shop pants, like specifically their technician's shop pants on the upper thigh and on the back pocket.
Leah Grubb: Which is just a fun little thought of adding a, another touch of branding and another touch point there. But what I more so mean by branded versus unbranded attire is using stuff like Nike or Carhartt or even the North Face because branded apparel can carry a different weight. It can feel more premium, especially depending on the brand you're picking.
Leah Grubb: And it can tell both your team and your customers, you know, we've put some thought. And some additional money into this. Into what? Into what we're wearing every single day. And especially for employees, it can boost confidence even further, right? When wearing something from a trusted retail brand like Carhartt they can make the fee, it can make the uniform feel less like a requirement and more like a benefit or like a perk of working at your shop versus whatever other basic t-shirt there that's out there.
Leah Grubb: And then for customers too, it sends a similar message about quality and standards because you're almost. Co-branding your shop with how they've come to know and perceive Under Armour and Nike as a trusted retail brand as well. Another shop we work with they're called Bimmer Rescue. They're located in Richmond and Virginia.
Leah Grubb: They're actually, it's like a three shop location. But the other ones are called something different, auto rescue. Bimmer Rescue specifically noticed that they had high-end high spending customers coming in and they always had their golf clubs in their cars. So they started co-branding their Bimmer rescue logo with Travis Matthew, golf logos to kind of elevate that experience and their customer's perceptions of them when they walk into that shop.
Leah Grubb: John said that he missed the first half hour, and that will this be sent out in a recording? And I do believe it will be sent out in a recording as well. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think 
Jimmy Lea: I'm wrong. No, you're totally right. Yeah. It is recorded and we'll be sending out a copy of it, but I have a question for you.
Jimmy Lea: You talk about branded logo to apparel like Nike or Under Armour, or Ping or whatever name, name your brand, a adida. What about shops that are on a budget? Where do they start? 
Jimmy Lea: Where do they start when it comes to branded gear? Because for many shops, this is a big expense for 'em, or it is an expense for 'em and they want to spend their money wisely.
Jimmy Lea: Versus there, there are some shops that kind of go hog wild, which I think is cool but what about those that are on a budget? Where should they start? 
Leah Grubb: So my personal, maybe controversial opinion is I think Nike is very overrated and very overpriced. And I say that cautiously 'cause I do know that there's some shops in the institute that use Nike Polos.
Leah Grubb: But I, you know, and for consistency, yes, they continue to use them. But if you're looking at getting something branded to start. I say we use Adidas at c and j because it is one great quality. And two, it's still a well-known brand that everyone can just look and see and immediately recognize that and then they see c and j, right?
Leah Grubb: But it's at the, a much better price point. Under Armor, I think is coming down price point, but it's not. Quite there yet as comparative to Adidas and Nike, I just kind of think it is overpriced for what you're getting. So Adidas, I would say is a really great entry point. There are also a lot of other brands like OGO, which is a little bit more of a golf brand, but I think they're trying to do some other industries now.
Leah Grubb: And a few other and really any other brand too. There's a lot out there. There's on kind of the more. Traditional wear. You have Eddie Bauer for outerwear as well versus the North Face. Right? Right. The north face is gonna be expensive, and I'll be real about that. It's not cheap.
Leah Grubb: But Eddie Bauer offers similar performance and functionality, which we're always looking for, but still offers that at little additional branding that you can put your logo next to. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Alright. And John's just asked the question, this is one that I've thought of quite a bit with different shops and what they're doing.
Jimmy Lea: John's question here is do you feel like having merchandise store available for customers to buy branded logo stuff is a good idea? Spreading the logo and letting people see it more than just on your staff? Is that a good idea for smaller, mid grade shops or is that a bad idea? What's your thoughts there, Leah?
Leah Grubb: So, I. We have one shop that has a store that sells to their customers. 
Jimmy Lea: Right? 
Leah Grubb: But the only way, or the only reason it works is because the merch they're selling specifically in that store isn't their uniform stuff. It's graphic t-shirts that are just. Tiny, slightly branded with Eurotech, right? It's by, it's about the design.
Leah Grubb: It's this really cool car design that looks like it was hand illustrated, really like, like a lot of lines and stuff like that. So it's a cool design. By Auto Tech or Euro Tech. Right. I think as shop owners we can, you know, our brand is our life, our shop is our life, our brand is our life. It's cool.
Leah Grubb: And we're surrounded by a lot of people who are supporting what we do. Right. You're with the institute and your members there with friends and family like. Our work is our life. But when you try and go and then have a customer who's also spending however much money on repair, go and also buy merch it's not always gonna work out.
Leah Grubb: So when opening, if you wanna open a merch store, right, you have to come at it from either two different directions. One, you want to make money from it. That's when you would go the route of creating some really cool designs and actually building a retail brand, which if you wanna, you know, go that route and essentially start another company that's your prerogative, or it's for customer gifting and brand exposure and rewarding customer loyalty because you're gonna get so much more value of giving a really loyal customer a t-shirt for free than having them buy it.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Yeah. You've just spent $2,500 at the shop. Go ahead and pick something off the middle shelf. Yeah. What, how much do I have to spend to get off the top shelf? Well, that's $10,000. Yeah. You're getting there. You're getting close. But this trip middle shelf. 
Leah Grubb: Yep. So we've had a few shops who still explore it and we open a shop for them.
Leah Grubb: It's very easy and we do that. But 
Leah Grubb: yeah. 
Leah Grubb: There's no traction. I mean, we have the numbers on our end. There's no traction there. Unless you go the route of. We are retail forward specific, or we are here just to the shop owner would actually just go on order a t-shirt on their customer's behalf and have it shipped to their house because, you know, you never know what size the t the customer's gonna be.
Leah Grubb: So they use that store to get that item shipped out specifically to them. Nice. 
Jimmy Lea: So, John's asking here are there different places that offer discounted pricing for businesses, for those polos, et cetera? And I think this plays right into you, Leah and your company. Yeah. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. So that was, that's what we would do.
Leah Grubb: Because the only way you're gonna get a quote, like discounted price on that is to get it at wholesale which you don't have the license for, which, but we do. So Right. You would work through US or again, like, any custom apparel. Does manufacturer would be able to access those wholesale prices, put your logo on it, and then we specifically put all that stuff into an online store for you so you can order one at a time or six at a time, or however many you need at a time, whether it's for you, a new hire, or a really loyal customer that just spend thousands of dollars at your shop and that they'll wear with pride out and about them.
Leah Grubb: So. 
Jimmy Lea: Nice. So that's pretty dang cool that you work with these shops and you can order in lower quantities. 
Jimmy Lea: Your equipment has the ability to do the lower quantities, which I think is tremendous. 
Jimmy Lea: Especially for that tech that shows up who's a seven XL t 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why we started Greenbelt as.
Leah Grubb: It was because we were trying to, right, we're opening essentially three shops at a time, which was crazy, to begin with. But you know that you could think, oh, we're gonna bring in all these new people. We're rebranding. We're gonna be outfitting all these people at once. We do a big bulk order. But then a week goes by and someone doesn't wanna move along with a transition and they quit.
Leah Grubb: So now we gotta hire and then we realize like, hey, we actually probably need to hire another person. So, the bulk orders only go so far and we still actually have my other business partner, the one that on the collision shop. Had the same thinking. We were hiring a bunch of people, let's just get a big bulk order in and buy a bunch of these exercises.
Leah Grubb: And we bought like two XL up to four, five xl. 'cause we were hiring some big guys. And I. It's still an inventory. And that was when I was working for them five years ago. Oh my God. And it was still going through that. And anytime we hire them, because after that, of course, all we hired were small and medium high school guys to come in and we had nothing that fit them.
Leah Grubb: So we were really frustrated with one, having to wait almost six months because of the COVID supply chain issues to get what we needed. And even now the turnaround times for some screen printing shops are still a month. Wow. Because they're that busy, especially for the low quantity orders they don't prioritize them in screen printing shops.
Leah Grubb: There's, we're seeing on my end, we're seeing a split in our industry of shops like mine with the online stores that specialize in minimum or no minimum quantity things. Really specializing in that and then screen printing's moving farther and farther away to like, unless you need 200 shirts, don't talk to me, kind of thing.
Leah Grubb: And 
Jimmy Lea: yeah. 
Leah Grubb: That's how they're feeling. Yeah. 
Jimmy Lea: Well, and so back in college, I, I did have a custom apparel company and I sold t-shirts to the college and the football team and other organizations. And the greater the quantity, the bigger the discount that it would be Yeah. For the end user. And it just makes sense.
Jimmy Lea: It's beautiful that you are able to offer such a great price at a low quantity for these shops, especially the shops that are bringing in a seven XLT. 
Jimmy Lea: Which is just amazing. Yeah. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. When I got that call I was like, oh I know. Six xl 
Jimmy Lea: Yes. Seven. Yes. So, I have a question for you. And oh, it kind of goes into John's question here as well.
Jimmy Lea: Do you have a setup fee for the logos or is it basically you get the logo and there's no cost for the items that we pull to the shop you guys set up In the past, I've done that type of stuff, purchasing the shirts, hats, et, and then have them embroidered after the fact. So my question for you is how much into John's question.
Jimmy Lea: My question for you is, how much advice or guidance or consulting do you do for a shop? To say, Hey, your logo really is not embroidery friendly. Or it's not print friendly. Do you re help them rebrand or do you help them modify their current logo so that it looks better? Or do they need to come with to you?
Jimmy Lea: With
Leah Grubb: print ready? Print ready? Probably here. A lot of other shops say like, we need print ready artwork. What does that mean? I'm not a printer. Right. And so because of that I've learned all of that. 'cause I had, I have plenty of time on my hands to try and outfit all these new employees. Yeah. But you as an auto shop owner, unless you've like John, you said that you are ordering a lot of these, so you've probably seen it a bit before, but you're brand new to it.
Leah Grubb: What was that mean? So, I like to say like, we're pretty much full service in that, you know, if you come to me and the logo is. The logo that you have, but for embroidery, right? Maybe it's a very I, we call it dense in the industry, but it has a lot of elements to it, right? It has your name, maybe a picture, maybe something else on it.
Leah Grubb: And altogether that may create a lot of extra stitches, and that's a lot of extra costs. And even though we can do one pole at a time, we still price based off of that. And so we can come we get that and we actually automatically just kind of come back. It's like, Hey, we can do this. It would cost this much though.
Leah Grubb: Or here's like three options of how we could par like par down your logo. So the integrity is still there. It still gets across like this is you and this is your logo, but these items, we can remove them and it saves you a lot of money for that. Yeah. So for embroidery, same thing for printing too. On the design.
Leah Grubb: On the placement, we can, if you just say like, here's my logo, I wanna put it on shirts and I wanna put it on hoodies. And whatever it is, we can take that and run with it because you have plenty of other things on your plate to deal with. And that's the kind of experience I grew, not grew up with what I learned through my career at c and j because Jack would just come in, you know, an awful whirlwind and be like, we need new t-shirts and we need softer ones.
Leah Grubb: And I'm like, that's all I need. And now we're just gonna go and create some designs. And that's what we do for a lot of our clients because again, you have your logo. How is it best gonna look on what color T-shirts, what color, hoodies, polos, or whatever it is. Yeah, that's our, you know, area of expertise.
Leah Grubb: So you can we can do all that for you. And to specifically ask answer John's question on the setup fees for the logo. We don't do setup fees, we don't do hoop fees. We don't do. Any fees. Shipping is included on every single order too, so that's not a surprise thing. Oh, wow. My favorite tagline right now that we're using is, you know, what you see is what you pay.
Leah Grubb: The price you see of that item in your store, you know, 24 99 polo or whatever it is the price you're paying aside from tax. But right now there really is no tax 'cause we're based in PA and we don't have clothing tax. So, that's really tax only gets applied on like drinkware, I think right now.
Leah Grubb: So get it while we're, while we still don't qualify to pay sales tax. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah. But, 
Jimmy Lea: and Leah you also supply more than just hats, hoodies, beanies, t-shirts, polos button downs. You have a full line of. Products that you can offer to shops as well. So if they're doing a car show or they're gonna participate in the county fair, you could do backdrops and.
Jimmy Lea: 10 Taylor Pops and popups. 
Leah Grubb: Yep. We just did a whole outfit for another community event. 'cause summer and fall is a time for community events for a whole new 10 by 10 popup, whole new tablecloth and then a bunch of rubber duckies for the kids. So the rubber duckies are for the Jeep owners and for the kids.
Leah Grubb: That's awesome. So between that and then all the office supplies, they just bring with them as well, all their extra pens and their sticky notepads. And then we also do a lot of. Maybe advertising supplements. So if that's like a poker chip voucher business card or like mints for a giveaway and even wall decals for just kinda freshening up your lobby area.
Leah Grubb: So pretty much anything you wanna put your brand on. The only way we can kind of describe it, there's a lot of items out there. 
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. That is so cool. You know, and if anybody else has questions, comments, concerns, just bursting at the forefront of your mind Leah, how do they get in touch with you?
Jimmy Lea: How can they get in touch with Green Bolt printing? I. 
Leah Grubb: Yeah you can go to green ball printing.com and type in that contact form. It'll reach me and Allie, but mostly I see everything going through it. You're gonna talk to me, but also my email's just leah@greenballprinting.com and you can reach me there as well.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Yeah I, this is absolutely fascinating. The abilities that your business has of these low quantities and the pricing is still such a good price for shops and shop owners. That's just amazing. I love this, that we can do this with you. So Leah, this is phenomenal. 
Leah Grubb: Thank you. 
Jimmy Lea: Other ideas, thoughts, magic wand moments.
Leah Grubb: I would say a little bit, if we wanna talk a little bit about color. Yes, let's talk color. There's a lot of shops and sometimes you guys come to me with your logos and it's just like, put this on a black T-shirt. And I'm like, okay. Which we'll do that. But I think there's a lot of opportunity you can have with.
Leah Grubb: Adding color, even if you just have a black and white logo, right? You can start putting in navy blue or royal blue polos or things like that and evoke a certain emotion with it, which I think you kind of all saw with c and j changing from just an all black outfit to a colorful one or on. Flip side, right?
Leah Grubb: Maybe there's too much color and you wanna reduce down to all black. 'cause you see with like Rent House and Elite, it's very sleek, it's very modern. If you take a look at any of their social media, they do a great job at social media. They do make a lot of content, which I expect Jamie's a YouTuber with 800,000 whatever subscribers or something.
Leah Grubb: So they better be good at some content there. But they, everything they do looks very sleek, very performance driven, very modern and professional There. And so again, it depends on the identity that you wanna bring forward, but if you can throw in maybe some blue, which is a very trustworthy, very go-to color.
Leah Grubb: Everyone loves blue. How can you hate blue? I love blue. That's my favorite color. If you maybe specialize in EVs or you wanna distinguish yourself in the market as an EV specialist and get all those Teslas, and the Ians and the Lucid are in the pole stars, which is my car. Maybe throwing some green in there and start kind of marketing EV specialists.
Leah Grubb: Maybe throw on specifically for your technician, a little EV specialist badge if they go through a certain training like that. Right. Red, yellow and orange. Yellow and orange are definitely, you know, not as popular. Colors red. I see a lot though in the automotive industry 'cause it's, there's. It's just energy and passion and then it's urgency and performance, but it can be overpowering, right?
Leah Grubb: So like if you were to look at these two sets of people when you walk into an auto shop, right? How do you feel comparatively one to the other? And even if you can't place it in like words you get a different feeling with each person. So a lot of times, right, if there's red in a logo and they wanna also put on red poles like this, we can put both of these into your shop and you can kind of see how your logo on this red polo versus something that just has a little bit of red could feel.
Leah Grubb: Same thing with like outerwear. Or something with yellow and gold. There's a lot of options to do accents of colors versus full out, because sometimes that red polo can be a little in your face and that might not be the vibe that you want a customer to feel. So you can have something from all the way up to, oh, there's red and black to, I don't know if you can even tell on the screen the one on the very end for the piping.
Leah Grubb: It's. It's barely there, but it's there and it's just that little bit of accent that provides that feeling again, that the red can provide. So I love playing around with color especially. You can do something like this if you are an all black T-shirt or an all black polo brand right now. Add in these little, just like flex of not just color, but like feeling and a vibe and an intensity there.
Leah Grubb: So. 
Jimmy Lea: I like it. I like it. That is a very cool and to have those different options for the accent colors, that could also be a promotional product that as you progress, you get more color. Or something like that. Yeah. Very cool. Very cool. Well, Leah, thank you very much for the information, the marketing, the colors, the mindset, the culture, the look, the feel, the uniform, the visual.
Jimmy Lea: Reminder that we all have, that we are part of a team that is super awesome. If you were to have a magic wand and you could change anything about this industry, what's one item that you would change in the automotive aftermarket? 
Leah Grubb: I would say having more fun with your brand. I really do think that there's a lot of potential that.
Leah Grubb: It's out there and a, aside from just putting your logo on a shirt, putting it on the back and calling it a day. Right? Yeah. And that, I guess not just in the color, it's in the items that you could be giving out for promotional products, you know? Yeah. We know about the lip balms and we know about the pens and you know, a t-shirt, and those are all safe staples and they're popular for a reason because people use them.
Leah Grubb: But there's a lot of other fun stuff that is really valuable, like. Pizza cutters that people aren't doing because it's not air freshener not gonna go in the car, but now it's in the drawer and every time they make a frozen pizza at home, they're using it. So there's a lot of other fun things that like you don't automatically associate with cars in the automotive industry, but you brand can go on them and I think can become like a keepsake over time.
Leah Grubb: I still have a pizza cutter that my mom got as like a freebie. Like what? Like before I was born and I'm still, I'm using it because it's the best pizza cutter I have. So there, there's so much more that we could be doing than just pens, chapstick shirts. Oh, 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. 
Leah Grubb: So I think we could all have a lot more fun with our brand and still keep brand integrity and still keep that.
Leah Grubb: Yeah, 
Jimmy Lea: I love it. I love it. Elena says she doesn't even have a pizza cutter, but anybody who does it for their next automotive repair shop. We need to send one to Elena. 
Leah Grubb: Absolutely. I'll put you on the list just a little, take a little one off the cart. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. So cool. Leah, thank you so much for joining us today and talking about uniforms.
Jimmy Lea: You know, our military has uniforms, professional sports teams have uniforms, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, we all have uniforms. And as an automotive repair shop, we're family. We're a team. We work together, and because of that, we. Are able to help our team to be better and we can provide leadership and guidance.
Jimmy Lea: So super awesome for that. Yes. Thank you for throwing this up here. Sign up for an appointment with Leah. Go ahead and scan those QR codes and get on her calendar so you can. Help your shop. 
Leah Grubb: Yes. And I'm happy to discuss any questions or any ideas you have about even where you wanna take your uniform, your constant visual identity.
Leah Grubb: As you can see, I could probably talk about this for another half hour maybe, or something like that. So if you wanna sign up for some time there, my calendar's right there. Or you can go straight to that contact form on the left and get a store done. Again, no setup fee. We were. Kind of consider us just like your own apparel director on your team and we work with you like that, so.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. And I love that you've put together the bundles already so that anybody hiring on, okay. You're extra large. Click. All right. Your six search will be here. What's a usual turnaround for you, Leah? 
Leah Grubb: Our standard production time is. About five days. And then depending on where you're in the country, that's another one to five days on shipping.
Leah Grubb: So if you're in the northeast or pretty much actually anywhere on the east coast, you could get your stuff in about seven business days. Oh, that's awesome. West Coast. Sorry, you need probably an extra three days on that, but all told a week and a half, week or two weeks to get all of your stuff. Yeah. 
Jimmy Lea: Love it.
Jimmy Lea: Love it. Thank you very much. Thank you for joining. Thank you. Thank you for joining and talking about uniforms and leadership and unity and branding and value. 
Leah Grubb: Yes, absolutely. My favorite topics. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Thank you very much. Hey, you know that this is my name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute.
Jimmy Lea: This is some valuable information. If you find this valuable and you want to talk more about other aspects of your business. Whether it's your advisors, your managers, or you as a shop owner, you've got questions about your profit and loss, your income statements, or maybe you don't even have a profit and loss, maybe you don't even have a an accurate income statement.
Jimmy Lea: Following my comments for 30 seconds, you want to pull out your smartphone and scan this QR code. You can meet with one of our business specialists to talk to you about your shop, your business. What can we do to work together to help you elevate your business? We at the Institute are all about better business, better life, better industry.
Jimmy Lea: The more we can help you to improve your business, the better your life is gonna be, as well as the lives of your staff, your family, your employees, your technicians, and their families as well. And in the end, the net result is that we are able to, as an industry, elevate and become a better industry. My name is Jimmy Lea.
Jimmy Lea: I'm with the Institute. Look forward to talking to you again soon. Thanks.
 

129 - The New Backbone of a Successful Shop: Software That Actually Works

129 - The New Backbone of a Successful Shop: Software That Actually Works
June 25th, 2025 - 00:58:23
Show Summary:
In this episode, Jimmy Lea hosts a dynamic conversation with John Phelps from Tekmetric, shop owner and Institute coach Jennifer Hulbert, and Tonnika Haynes of Brown’s Automotive. They dive into the realities of switching point-of-sale systems, discussing both the challenges and the rewards. John shares how Tekmetric has evolved, focusing on cloud-based innovation and powerful reporting tools that help shops improve performance. Jennifer and Tonnika provide real-world insights into how Tekmetric impacted KPIs like effective labor rate and average repair order. The conversation highlights the importance of accountability, data transparency, and choosing the right tools and partnerships to help shops grow and succeed.
 
Host(s):
Jimmy Lea, VP of Business Development
 
Guest(s):
John Phelps, Director of Channel Partnerships, Tekmetric
 
Jennifer Hulbert, Owner of Service Plus Auto and Head Coach at The Institute
Tonnika Haynes, Owner of Browns Automotive
 
Episode Highlights:
[00:02:21] Tekmetric celebrates surpassing 10,000 shops using the platform, marking a major growth milestone.[00:03:45] Jennifer shares the top rule of POS transitions: don’t do it unless it meets every business need.[00:06:41] Tonnika chose Tekmetric for its ability to support remote work, which was crucial while raising young children.[00:08:47] John explains how Smart Jobs use VIN decoding to build accurate estimates in just a few clicks.[00:13:29] Tonnika and Jennifer describe Smart Jobs as a virtual assistant that improves efficiency and consistency.[00:17:00] Jennifer uses Tekmetric's deep reporting features to coach shop owners on improving financial performance.[00:23:06] The team discusses real-time reporting and how it helps address issues before they become problems.[00:37:40] Jennifer explains how digital vehicle inspections help build trust and transparency with customers.[00:44:16] John reveals that shops using DVIs with 8 or more images see an average repair order increase of $106.[00:54:54] Tonnika shares how “Do It Right” reflects her mission to serve her community and honor her family legacy.
 
In every business journey, there are defining moments or challenges that build resilience and milestones that fuel growth. We’d love to hear about yours! What lessons, breakthroughs, or pivotal experiences have shaped your path in the automotive industry?
Share your story with us at info@wearetheinstitute.com, and you might be featured in an upcoming episode.
 
👉 Unlock the full experience - watch the full webinar on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZq3oadWJ-o
 
Don’t miss exclusive insights, expert takeaways, and real talk you won’t hear anywhere else. Hit Subscribe, drop a comment, and share it with someone who needs to hear this!
 
Links & Resources: 
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Episode Transcript DisclaimerThis transcript was generated using artificial intelligence and may contain errors. If you notice any inaccuracies, please contact us at marketing@wearetheinstitute.com.
 
Episode Transcript:
Jimmy Lea: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or good night, depending on when and where you're joining us from today. My name is Jimmy Lea. I'm with the Institute. We are going to have a really great conversation coming up here in just a few moments. This is to be an interactive conversation. You've got questions, we've got answers.
Jimmy Lea: You've got questions about different point of sale systems, you've got questions about Tekmetric. We've got the extroverts that are gonna be here with us. So not to give everything away, but we do have Tekmetric in the house today, which is gonna be an awesome conversation. Thank you to everybody who's here.
Jimmy Lea: We have a phenomenal panel that's gonna join us here today, starting with. John Phelps from Tekmetric. John is joining us as the voice of Tekmetric today. John, how are you sir? 
John Phelps: I'm doing very well, Jimmy. Thank you for having us. 
Jimmy Lea: This is gonna be awesome. And just so you all know, I did try to canonize John the other day.
Jimmy Lea: I called him John Paul. 
John Phelps: Yeah. I felt like, I was a pope candidate at the moment, but no, 
Jimmy Lea: you were, 
John Phelps: you're 
Jimmy Lea: in the running. There we go. You just didn't know it. 
John Phelps: No, I was a little late to that one, apparently. Yeah. That he was already he was already selected. Even though he is from the us No I did not make that cut.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. Well, glad to have you here with us, John. Thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate Tekmetric that, and the strides that you are taking as a software of value in the industry. Really making it great for our shops to understand where they are, what they're doing, process, procedures, profit effective labor rates.
Jimmy Lea: Effectivity is super awesome. 
John Phelps: Absolutely no, it's it's really been awesome to see, you know, we've got clients like like we have here today, and I know you said you don't wanna give everything away, so we'll wait to bring them in here in a little bit. But just to be able to see the strides in the growth within Tekmetric, but also within our clients, within our shops over the last few years.
John Phelps: I personally have been with Tekmetric a little over four years now, and in that timeframe it's been very cool to see number one. We've more than, let me see here, quintupled. Almost sex coupled in terms of shop count you know, sub 2000 at the time. And now as we, you know, announced a few months ago, cracking over the 10,000 shop mark across the country and growing bigger and bigger every single month.
John Phelps: Luckily for us, and even more so, and I know we'll get into this a little bit later, but. The strides that those shops have seen since switching. And by no means will we ever take the credit for a shop doing very positive things with their own business, but we're just happy to be a part of that ride.
John Phelps: One of the things I will say, I. Is, you know, the national average based on the most recent metrics that we've seen in terms of a RO which you mentioned, right? The average repair order that parts in labor sales per ticket is between four and four 50. We've heard reports as high as four 80. Whereas Tekmetric customers across our entire user base has cracked over $600 per car that comes across their shop.
John Phelps: So 27% higher than the national average. And I know we've we've got a. Can say a little bit more than that in terms of their growth that they've seen in the last few years. And I'll let them do the description on there, but very happy to be here and and be a part of this. 
Jimmy Lea: Well, thank you John.
Jimmy Lea: Welcome, man. This is awesome. And joining us, Jennifer Holbert. Jennifer is a facilitator coach with the institute. She is a Tekmetric user as well, and she made the leap to go from one point of sale system to another. And Jennifer, we know the rules. We know the rules of jumping and what are those rules?
Jennifer Hulbert: Hello, Jimmy. Thank you for the introduction. So as a facilitator my first rule of changing management systems is don't because it is a very large deal and can be disruptive to your whole shop. I. Went against that rule and made the switch from a different management system to Tekmetric about seven years ago and have seen nothing but an upside from that switch since then.
Jennifer Hulbert: We'll get into some of the reasons why in a little bit later. Yeah. In the podcast. But this has been a very positive move for me as it has been for many of my coaching clients and group members. 
Jimmy Lea: I think the top rule three rules of change your point of sale systems is don't do it.
Jimmy Lea: Don't do it. Don't do it. And then 0.4 says, to your point, make sure when you do it, it does fulfill everything that you're looking for. 
Jennifer Hulbert: Yes. Thoroughly research it. 
Jimmy Lea: Thoroughly research. I'm glad you research it. And you, your client number? 2000 something? Something. 
Jennifer Hulbert: 24 88. 
Jimmy Lea: 24 88. Wow. Wow. Welcome. Glad to have you here with us, Jennifer.
Jimmy Lea: This is awesome. Thank you. And by the way, just so everybody understands, not only is she a coach and facilitator with the institute, she owns a shop. You own a shop and run a shop in nor New York, 
Jennifer Hulbert: Northern New York, yep. Service plus automotive in calcium, New York. Nice. 
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Awesome. Joining us as well is Tanika Hayes.
Jimmy Lea: She's with Browns Automotive. She is phenomenal. Tanika, we are so excited to have you here with us. How are you? 
Tonnika Haynes: I'm great. I'm excited to be here. 
Jimmy Lea: You're, it's exciting and you sound like you're in a cathedral of sorts. 
Tonnika Haynes: I'm sorry, is my mic acting up again? 
Jimmy Lea: No, it's all good. It's all good. It just it's awesome.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you for joining us. We are all in different locations than we normally are Today. I'm in Manta, Utah on the road, helping to take care of family 'cause that's what we do. We help take care of family. And Tanika, I'm glad you're here so we can have this great conversation talking about your journey and what that looks like and Jennifer, your journey and what that looks like.
Jimmy Lea: And to kick it all off, we're gonna give my John a few minutes to talk about Tekmetric. And so any of you who are tuning in, this is the. 32nd commercial, which is a little bit longer than 30 seconds. We're gonna give John some time here to tell us a little bit about Tekmetric and what's happening, what's going on, what the future looks like as well.
John Phelps: Let me actually do this. I'm gonna go off script. Tanika, if I could ask you a question. Yeah. When you were looking to switch Now you joined us in July of 2020, so happy five year anniversary to that. Up here in a few, but when you were looking to make a switch as they've highlighted, it's a pretty big commitment, what were the utmost important things you needed to have in a resource, a software solution in order to consider making a change?
Tonnika Haynes: For me, it was the fact that I could work off site because at the time I had young kids just being able to. Use my phone, use my laptop, wherever I might be. I was able to connect with the shop. That was very important. That was most important to me. 
John Phelps: Perfect. Now, and that's what I wanted. I wanted a live 32nd commercial because I wanted it to be very customizable to her situation, but also it's what we hear.
John Phelps: Across all of our user base, right? One of the biggest things that we highlight at Tekmetric is being cloud-based. Cloud-based means we operate in a web browser and it's as mobile as it possibly can be. Laptop, tablet, cell phone, desktop from anti, from East Texas to upstate New York, wherever you are.
John Phelps: You absolutely have that flexibility and it's always been that way. Now that being said, having that one feature, being cloud-based isn't enough. Right. To Jimmy's point, we've got to continually innovate, and I mentioned, I've been with Tekmetric a little over four years now, and in that time, on average, we've released more than three new features or solutions, as we like to call it, every single month.
John Phelps: Right, that is a hundred. It's a couple hundred different solutions that we've been able to release over the last four years. And I say solutions because it's nice to have a nice, shiny, new object, but if it doesn't bring you value, if it doesn't allow that extra checkbox to be completed, something that you didn't have before, something brand new or a new way to look at it, well then it doesn't do any good.
John Phelps: That's just a shiny object that really nobody's gonna act upon. And so over the last few years, we've released things like our. Our MO, our multi shop owner functionality, right? Our payments platform that has buy now, pay later, actually multiple financing options within that. We acquired a company, right?
John Phelps: We acquired a CRM called Shop Genie. And we're building within a Tekmetric marketing platform inherent into the system. All along the way, we'll sprinkle in some smart jobs to where you can build entire estimates in just a couple of clicks. Instead of having to source every part, every labor line multiple times, go ahead and do a one click feature right there and.
John Phelps: Few smaller things like template text messages. Of course we've got the two way texting, the digital vehicle inspection. Tamika, we spoke the other day talking about moto visuals and having vi videos be able to add it automatically to that digital vehicle inspection, that DVI and the value that brings to you.
John Phelps: Sure. But really your customers and that way that it sets us apart, sets you apart as a shop of anywhere else that they could go. And so, by no means are we satiated with where we are. We absolutely wanna grow as a product. We want to grow our user base. And being a part of things like this allow us to be able to get in front of more people, speak more specifically about the functionality of the software that is important to our shop owners, and the value that each individual solution brings you.
John Phelps: And hopefully hearing more about that throughout the conversation today. Yeah. 
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. I love where Temp Metric has come from and where it's going. And you mentioned Smart Jobs. Would the industry call that a can job Or what is a smart job? What's that definition?
John Phelps: It's a, that's a great question. So we do have CAN jobs which is a portion that we've had in the system for a number of years. However, smart Jobs, it sounds like it's ai, it's not, it's actually built from the bottom up inside of the system. And so. Interestingly enough, you can have a smart can job.
John Phelps: So for instance, if you've got an oil change, right? Jimmy, do you know how many quarts of oil and what type of filter your vehicle takes? If you do, it's gonna be different than mine. Very likely different than Jennifer's and so on and so forth. And so instead of having four different oil change can jobs for our four vehicles here, you can have one Smart Can job it is gonna decode the vin.
John Phelps: It's gonna know the type of oil, the quantity of oil, and the OE part. Number of that filter, which is gonna be then cross-referenced with your inventory or your preferred part suppliers. And within a couple of clicks, it's gonna know that it's 4.8 quarts of zero 20, or 8.3 quarts of five 30. All within the same smart job right there on your estimate, and it's not just the oil changes.
John Phelps: Sure, we've got the oil changes, the air filters, the brakes, but what about spark plugs? Four cylinders, six cylinders, eight cylinders? Where do you buy your split? Your plugs? Does it automatically pull from the labor guide or your own dedicated labor? Time? Answer is both. Whichever you prefer automatically applies.
John Phelps: Your parts markup, your matrix that you prefer, and within a couple of clicks without having to dig through. Is it 4, 6, 8, 10? You've built that estimate, that job with a couple of clicks, so saves a lot of time. We plan to expand upon that to have a couple of hundred, but that is the early onslaught of these smart jobs inside of Tekmetric.
Jimmy Lea: So I have a question. Did he freeze on you guys? Just on me. Is he's frozen. No, 
John Phelps: no. I can hear you Jimmy. I can hear you. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, okay, good. Yeah. Hey, so, with these smart jobs, I, oil changes. Okay. I totally get it. What about timing belts or water pumps? Same idea. Absolutely. Looks up the vin looks up, the part, looks up, poses, brackets, belts, everything that's needed for that 
John Phelps: job, correct?
John Phelps: Correct. Now, again, being that it is a build proprietary solution inside. We've gotta, we've gotta build certain things out. So is it a water pump or does it come with the supplemental labor that goes along with that? Okay. I've gotta, it's a water pump, but I've gotta pull the pulley. I'm gonna go ahead and replace the belts as well.
John Phelps: There's different ways and obviously different vehicles call for different repair. Within that then do you fully. Service the coolant or do you just replace what's drained out? So certain things like that are continuing to be built out, but absolutely it is going to be the same concept. One water pump smart job regardless of vehicle, one water pump or one timing belt, smart job or chain, I guess, regardless of vehicle.
John Phelps: Absolutely. That is going to be the concept with it. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, wow. Jennifer and Tanika what's your experience here with.
Tonnika Haynes: I am back and Can you hear me now? I feel like I froze a lot. Yeah. Okay. So I love the smart jobs. I'm getting used to it. We were definitely in for the can jobs. That was fun. We go ahead and build it and make your notes in there. Everything was great. The smart jobs, when it starts popping up and it's doing the work for you.
Tonnika Haynes: It's amazing. So I have to remember that I don't wanna say this aloud, but I'm gonna say it. I'm not fond of technology. I don't want a new phone when a new phone comes out. So I'm pretty sure a lot of people like that, the same boat as me. But once you get into it and you learn it, you're just like okay.
Tonnika Haynes: This is it. This is what's up. And so it's like adding, maybe not a whole nother employee, but it's like adding an assistant that can do some of that work for you. 
Jimmy Lea: Hello. Yeah. Well, speaking of technology, here we are updating mom and dad's phone. They're 19 updates.
Jimmy Lea: That's painful. Jennifer. Smart, smart jobs. 
Jennifer Hulbert: I for me, I haven't, I. Use them myself, because I'm not in a day-to-day position at the shop, but I know my two service advisors absolutely love them because just like Tanika said, it saves them a significant amount of time. So knowing that we have this technology, we can utilize this technology, it's gonna make our jobs easier.
Jennifer Hulbert: Is one of the reasons that I continue to be a Tekmetric subscriber. 
John Phelps: I want to add to it though, because you know, myself, my, my background is automotive, but I didn't come from a technician role, right? I didn't come from turning riches and having that inherent knowledge. And so to me, when I first saw the Smart job functionality, it was one of those that two things stood out.
John Phelps: One is. A steeper learning curve, right? Getting somebody up to speed so they don't have to guess, what do I do with this? What do I do with that? What do I need to add into this job? And the second and kind of supplementary thing to that is consistency. Yeah. We've all seen it to where one advisor quotes something separately than the other advisor because, well, their experience says this, and then they say, well, that's, that doesn't seem quite right.
John Phelps: So they pad something here or they adjust something there. But if you've got 2, 3, 4, 5 separate advisors. That same smart job is applicable across the board, and that consistency is there. So you don't have to worry about, well, did he quote it and she quote it the same way this time versus last time. So the learning, the training piece of it, but as well as the consistency piece of it.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love that. I love that. I love that consistency. Now you're able to bring in an advisor that doesn't have an automotive background, and the consistency is across all of them. So when an advisor's going to recommend an alternator. Does that include the alternator, the belts, and the bracket? Or is it just the alternator?
Jimmy Lea: Well, it needs to be everything that's involved. Love this. I mean that, that's just amazing. Alright, back on to, I mean, we could go down this, I'm, I could go down this rabbit hole with smart jobs, tell the cows come home, but. I wanna ask you, Jennifer, you were talking about your smart jobs, you know, your advisors using them.
Jimmy Lea: When you, when Tanika came on with coaching and training with the institute, what were some of those first things that you looked at with her and her business? 
Jennifer Hulbert: Typically, the first thing that I go to before we get solid financials is just the KPIs within the system. So with Tekmetric, that would be the end of day report and we can see her sales volume.
Jennifer Hulbert: We can see the gross profit in parts and labor. I. Sublet tires individually, we can see the collection of environmental fees. So if there was anything on the lower end of our benchmarks, that's what I would look at to, to improve first and to make any adjustments into a parts matrix or collecting labor.
Jennifer Hulbert: Tanika had a lot of those items pretty dialed in. Again, she utilized Tekmetrics ability to dive into those reporting to find some of those areas before we started to work together. But I believe, Tanika, correct me if I'm wrong, we looked at the parts matrix and made some decent adjustments to that.
Jennifer Hulbert: And I think effective labor rate too were some of the two that we looked at first. But she was well versed on the software and also had the familiarity to look into the reporting and a general understanding of her key KPIs, and they were in a good range to start off with 
Jimmy Lea: T Tanika.
Jimmy Lea: What were some of those first challenges or process procedures that you looked at with a coach that you were like, okay. I know I'm here, but I know I wanna be here. What do I need to do to get there? What were some of those things that you first looked at when you were with Jennifer? She talked about the KPIs.
Jimmy Lea: What else did you look at? 
Tonnika Haynes: I was really concerned with my effective labor rate and how to increase that and get that closer to my do. And with the help of Jennifer and being able to go into Tekmetric and just make adjustments with the click of Mouse and just watch that effective labor rate and the door rate just start to closer together, that was also, and again, like she said.
Tonnika Haynes: I'm not coachable, but when Jennifer said, Hey, go in here she's laughing 'cause she's, I'm not coachable. I am she said, go in here and let's change the parts matrix. Let's add this and let's do this and let's try this. And I drank the Kool-Aid and I did it. And I'm just slowly watching those KPIs just get to industry standards or even my standards, you know.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Nice. And how close are you now with your effective labor rate and door rate? Are you exceeding the door rate? Are we there yet? 
Tonnika Haynes: Not yet. We're not there yet. We'll be talking about that on our next meeting, but it is a lot closer than what it was before. A whole lot closer. So, you know, just a tweak here, changing in policy there.
Tonnika Haynes: We're gonna get there for sure. 
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. And did it, Tanika, had you never come on with coaching and training with, is this an area that you would've found, discovered, implemented on your own? Or did you need some accountability to make it happen? 
Tonnika Haynes: Oh, Jimmy, I need accountability to make it happen because I was one of those shop owners that, I'm still one of those shop owners that look at, I look at a checkbook, so there's money in the checkbook.
Tonnika Haynes: There's money in a bank account, I can go buy things, so I'm fine. Right? No, Jennifer's not going for that. I mean, she's not, I'm getting better. Can I get it? Am I, look, she said I'm getting better. I'm getting better at really understanding, not being afraid of those numbers. If I don't understand it, I'll get frustrated.
Tonnika Haynes: Just like I don't want new technology, anything new. But learning each and every thing that she's teaching me and when she's learn, teaching me how to. Get that to a better place, let's decrease that. We need to look at this. What does this mean? I'm getting to the point that I can answer most of the questions.
Tonnika Haynes: So nice. The Tekmetric reports, they make a huge difference in being able to see what's really happening in the shop and not waiting for that credit card batch to hit the bank account and say, oh, I won. I know exactly how much I'm winning by percentages. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's good. Jennifer, a question for you.
Jimmy Lea: How do you what's the method, what's the strategy? How do you take someone like Tanika, and I'm not gonna say survive because I think Tanika was doing well. How do you change that mindset to go from a survival or a coasting mode to a thriving mode where she is implementing and she is holding accountability and she is.
Jimmy Lea: How did you do that? How do you. Guide someone down that path. 
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, you first start looking at the reporting. So again, that was one of the reasons I changed to Tekmetric was the high level of reporting and the ability to dig down deep to find the areas of improvement that we need. So if we're talking about parts gross profit, then we're gonna look at the Matrix and then we're gonna look at.
Jennifer Hulbert: Where do the majority of the cost of those parts fall within the matrix? Are we making the right adjustments to the matrix to really impact the total parts gross profit? So again I'll say this a million times. One of the reasons I love Tekmetric is you can dive deep into pretty much any area that you need to.
Jennifer Hulbert: Just before this webinar I was on with another GPG member and we were looking at possibilities and ways to increase the average repair order. So we started looking at the vehicle inspections. Are the technicians identifying enough work to be able to be estimated? To present to the customer. And that inTekmetric is called average written repair order.
Jennifer Hulbert: So that's a KPI in a report that we can look at to say, Hey, you know, if I'm in the thousand dollars range, I'm typically gonna have a lower average repair order, where if I am consistently estimating 2000 or 2,500, which is. What we recommend, I'm gonna be able to get to that eight, $900,000 average repair order if we have an effective service advisor.
Jennifer Hulbert: So depending upon which KPI is we're trying to improve. Tekmetric has an ability to look at a report and say, okay, these are the areas that we're identifying. Now we know. Do we go to the technician for a change in the DVI process? Do we go to the service advisor for an upgrade or an a higher sales training ability?
Jennifer Hulbert: Do we look at a change in a matrix? Do we need to increase our labor rate or our labor matrix? So it's a little bit of a loaded question, Jimmy, as to where we look first, but it depends on what area that we're focusing on. And again, Tekmetric makes it easy because we typically have a report that we can dive deep into.
John Phelps: Well, for sure. Can I add to that real quick? Only because, you know, I do say this a lot, but you just verbalized it and kind of put it to life in that there's a few different reports that Tekmetric provides you that allow you to go from a 30,000 foot view to a three foot view very quickly.
John Phelps: Right. How we do and how'd this ro get to this point? Yes. And whether that be the A WRO, what advisor, what technician what matrix didn't get applied. Oh, we had a discount, we had a coupon, we had a one-off. And it allows you to find those, but it does allow you to see how are we doing? What happened here?
John Phelps: I. Within just a couple of clicks on various reports. 
Jennifer Hulbert: Absolutely. And that's what I did just before this webinar was to go in and look at individual service advisor and we found that it was one service advisor that we need to focus with and one technician, and they had worked together quite a bit the month before, so that, that had the effect or the negative effect in this case on.
Jennifer Hulbert: The average repair order. So, yeah, being able to dive deep and to see okay, what's the overall KPI for a timeframe, and then dig down into each individual repair order is very simple. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that's awesome. Ika, I've got a question for you, but I'm gonna ask John first. John. What do you hear from shop owners that are coming over and adopting Tekmetric?
Jimmy Lea: What's one of their, what's their reasons for coming over? Why do they choose Tekmetric? 
John Phelps: I. You know, there we're gonna hear any number of reasons, dozens and dozens of reasons. However, we have actually boiled down to really one of four things, right? Simplicity or ease of use, right? How easy is it to actually operate the system?
John Phelps: We've already mentioned change is hard. We wanna minimize that difficulty to a matter of a couple of days, if that, not a couple of weeks or a couple of months. So simplicity or ease of use is a key portion. A second is consolidation. How many systems can Tekmetric replace? Right? If you've got a system for texting, a system for digital vehicle inspections, you have a separate payment processor, you even have a separate marketing piece and the list goes on.
John Phelps: Tekmetric has all that built in, and it's all right there. Now we have the integrations with a lot of other companies, but we also have that product built right in. So consolidation is another one. The other two are performance and depend dependability. Performance is, does it work how it's supposed to, meaning does it work like it's supposed to run in an auto shop?
John Phelps: And yes, I have had that said to me many times. It actually looks like it's supposed to run in a repair shop. Well. That's how it was designed. That was the whole intent. It wasn't a a restaurant software that we thought would work in auto shops. No, it was built for auto shops. And then dependability does it work when it's supposed to?
John Phelps: With over a 99.9% uptime, even in the cloud, you've got very minimal, if any, downtime in the actual software because if something happens, it's usually fixed very quickly. So, regardless of everything that the shop owners say. Simplicity, consolidation, performance, and dependability are the four things that those all kind of bundle up into in terms of the reasons that they switch.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And Tanika then, now the question comes to you, you were on a different point of sale system before you decided to switch over to Tekmetric. What was that deciding factor for you?
Tonnika Haynes: For me, it was exactly what he said. I needed something that was more dependable. So I needed something that could give me reporting, even though I didn't even know how much reporting I actually needed at the time. I needed something that was easy for my customers as well. Everything is under the umbrella with Tekmetric, the text to pay the dvi, all of that information because I'm in a college town, so there's a lot of students, and so when the parents are a couple cities or a couple states away, I need to be able to communicate effectively with them.
Tonnika Haynes: So the DVI, giving them full picture of what's going on with the vehicle, in case they're too busy, I can send it to their email, I can send it to a text. They don't have to, we don't have to play phone tag. So that, that made the biggest difference for me being able to effectively communicate with all of my customers.
Tonnika Haynes: That was a bi big sales. Sales point for me and like he was saying, what I had before I believe was designed for a dental office and so it really didn't fit automotive as well as it should have, but these guys have built it from the ground up and everything that works seamlessly. I love it.
Jimmy Lea: That's awesome. I'm glad it's working. I'm glad it's working extremely well for you too. Jennifer, you have the rules that thou shalt not change nine point of sale system. What was that deciding factor? What's the tipping point for you with the rule that says, thou shalt not. 
Jennifer Hulbert: For me, it was, we had three different systems.
Jennifer Hulbert: We had a DVI system, we had a time clock. We, well, four, we had a text platform and then we had the management system and there were constant communications between the four systems and the level of reporting. So. As my group members know, I'm a very detailed numbers person, so being able to dive deep into identifying an area of improvement is important to me.
Jennifer Hulbert: And my old management system didn't allow that to happen as easy as Tekmetric did. So just having all of the communication systems working together was the key factor in the reporting. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And does that help you with your coaching and training with shop owners? Having a point of sale system that has good reporting, good data, good information, 
Jennifer Hulbert: it's imperative.
Jennifer Hulbert: I can't detect what I can't see and I can't coach it for an improvement of what I can identify. So having detailed reporting is. Imperative from a coach and a facilitator standpoint? Absolutely. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Oh man. Yeah, it sure is. Sure is. Makes all the difference. Tanika, were you at all afraid or fear fearful of switching from one point of sale system to another?
Tonnika Haynes: I can't say that I was afraid. I was ready. I'm shop number 9 67. I was ready to get on board for something new. And it worked seamlessly for me. Onboarding was easy. Actually. It's probably a lot easier than I can remember. I remember it was just easy overnight. We had everything uploaded. The learning curve kept with anything new.
Tonnika Haynes: You're gonna have a learning curve. But I remember just thinking like, wow, where has this been all my life? You know? So for me it was easy. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. Props to you, John. Props to you and your team. That's pretty cool. To have an easy transition, an easy thing like that, that's pretty dang cool to make it easy for everybody to come over.
John Phelps: Yeah. I mention a lot when I'm doing any kind of presentation, right. Day one is tough. It's 'cause it's just something different. If, I mean, quite frankly, we are going through a transition in our own CRM and what we use to record to, to take record of our customers and prospects and so on. We're absolutely in that transition as a company right now.
John Phelps: So by all means I've done it before on the automotive side, but we're doing it here at Tekmetric as well. And what I always say is, yeah, day one's tough. Day one's a little less tough, right? Get gets a little bit better, but by day five, you're able to show the person next to you. Look at this feature I found.
John Phelps: Look at how. I do this, look at what we're able to do with this now. And I've said that in rooms, and by all means I wanna make sure there's corroboration. And people in the room say, yeah, absolutely. It was that way. You're gonna find nuggets along the way. You're gonna find things that maybe were you glossed over or didn't you know, didn't absorb quite frankly that, that first try.
John Phelps: But along the way, especially as we update, there's those new things that you find and wow, okay, that's a simpler click. I can open that in a new tab. I don't have to jump out of this. And it just. Becomes a little bit more seamless day after day. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, that, that is so cool. And Tim's piping in here talking about how techs love using their cell phones with the app rather than using a tablet or a computer.
John Phelps: I. Yeah, it's, it is one of those things that, you know, we always, early on, especially touted, Hey look, you can use this on a tablet. No, you don't have to buy the thousand, $1,500 ones. You can buy the $200 ones. And you know, I have the ability and the privilege of visiting a lot of shops with my role.
John Phelps: And you see tablets kind of sitting on a charging cord on a toolbox. And technicians specifically like the mobile use of the phone, it's their phone. They're used to the screen, they know where the buttons are, and they can take the picture and they can put it in their pocket. And then they can move to the next one.
John Phelps: They can take the picture, they can put it in their other pocket, and they can use voice to text and type if they would need to, whatever the case is. And knowing that, that's why we developed the app. The app started off, it was released last fall but it started off specifically for digital vehicle inspections.
John Phelps: It was technician focused to ensure that they had an optimized, app ability to use that on their phone because it could have gotten a little clunky. Right. And I'm on my phone. I like it better than the tablet, but it jumps over here and it's not optimized specifically for that because I'm just logging into the website.
John Phelps: On my phone. Phone as opposed to an app. So releasing that and now coming up with new iterations, VIN scanning, license plate scanning, being able to add prefixed shapes and colors and text boxes to the pictures. I think we're on version 1.9 or something like that now with the app itself. So it is continuing to evolve.
Jimmy Lea: Nice. That's awesome. Tanika, Jennifer Tanika first, was there anybody resistant to this change?
Tonnika Haynes: I'd say, yeah, I've had, you know, tech that's been with me for a few years and he's just not sold on the DBI, but I think since it's on the phone, so we have the app that was dedicated just for the text, that's so much easier than the big clunky tablet now. And so he's buying it. He's buying in. I can see the dbis getting better, more pictures on each DVI, that 300% to that 300% rule is ruling.
Tonnika Haynes: So, 
Jimmy Lea: yeah, 
Tonnika Haynes: for sure. 
Jimmy Lea: Nice. Jennifer, any any holdouts, any resistance at your shop? 
Jennifer Hulbert: I was the biggest holdout, 'cause I had used my previous management system for 20 years and the change was very difficult for me, for my technicians. We didn't have the app at that point, but they moved pretty seamlessly.
Jennifer Hulbert: And my second advisor at the time was a little more up on technology than I was, so I fall into to Tanika's shoes a little bit there. And he picked up on the software. Much more quickly than I did. 'cause it was a different process for me. We didn't start in the same screen with my old system, so it was like a thought process change that I had to get myself over.
Jennifer Hulbert: But the technicians they worked pretty well. 'cause we were, well, I don't wanna say this. We went from paper to digital and then to metric pretty quickly. So they enjoyed the ease of the DVI because that is an area that we were very focused on at that time. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. DVI is a drum that I'm very familiar with and I absolutely pounded that drum for four or five, six years in the industry.
Jimmy Lea: Tanika to the DVI and educating the customer. What do you find it works best in educating that customer? 
Tonnika Haynes: The DVI along with motor visuals, that is a game changer. Like for example, we all speak different languages. I can try to explain to the customer a certain way and try to make it apply to everyday life or try to find something that it I can compare it to.
Tonnika Haynes: So you can do that. You've got the DVI with the images of their car, and if they still don't understand it, it's connected to motor visuals. So you gotta win, and win. So the and then the reporting, and I'm so happy for Jennifer for point this, there's so many reports on here, but the reporting on which check is doing the dbis, how many photos, how many videos per DBI is he doing?
Tonnika Haynes: And the more photos and the more image the more videos, the easier it is to sell that. Job to the customer. So the DBI reporting is winning. The dbis themselves are winning. The integration with more visual is all a win. And again, like I said, I have a lot of customers who have students. I mean, their students and their parents need to make these decisions.
Tonnika Haynes: Not only that, as we are close to UNC and SUNC hospital, major hospital, so we have the physician and hospital staff, we've got nurses, we have a lot of people that are just busy in their everyday life. And so maybe I, they don't get to talk to me about. The findings on their vehicle. But the DVI helps communicate everything that we found and if they don't understand or they need to dive deeper into it, they get a break.
Tonnika Haynes: They to pick up the phone and give us a call. Hey, I've looked at the pictures. Oh my goodness. Is that my car? Yes, it's my car. Did you follow the link to the video? Yes. That is pretty cool. Thank you. What should we do? And then we can go ahead with our sales process from there on out. So the DBI, again, like another employee?
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And the answer is fix it. Fix it. Keep me safe on the road. Whatever it takes, keep me safe. Yeah, educated customers are the best. They make the best decisions, especially when you're having to send it to mom and dad. They might be in New York or Maine or Florida, and there you are in North Carolina helps them make those decisions as well.
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, the DVI does that, but it also creates that trust and transparency. So there is no question on what needs or the reason it needs to be repaired. And that, I mean, that's what we teach in the group process of the number one reason to do I. DVI is to create that level of trust with your customer and to build that relationship that what you're saying is absolutely what the vehicle needs.
Jennifer Hulbert: And we can prove it with a picture and a video of your vehicle, not just something that's prefabbed and out there of, you know, this is what a, a clunky ball joint looks like. No, this is your vehicle and I can move your tire because it's, you know, you actually have it at that loose. So it's that level of trust and transparency that, that I push the DVI for.
Jimmy Lea: Oh yeah, it is. And that transparency is paramount. Tanika, what is the 300% rule? You mentioned that a couple of times now. 
Tonnika Haynes: You know, I think that's one of the hardest rules for shop owners that are, have been in the industry for a long time to apply is you write up a hundred percent everything that you look over a hundred percent of the car present.
Tonnika Haynes: A hundred percent estimate, a hundred percent. And it is hard to do because you feel like you might be pencil whipping, but you're not. You're giving them a full picture of what's going on with their vehicle and that's very important. Not to get off subject, but I had my vehicle at the dealership when I was on vacation for something and they did not follow the 300% rule.
Tonnika Haynes: They did the DVI, they showed me the problem, they showed me the video, did not present me with an estimate for that, did not do anything other than show me the picture. Personally for me, I would've gotten it done while I was there, while I was on vacation. 'cause that's not a job I wanted to do in my own shop.
Tonnika Haynes: It'll never get done, you know, call the daughter never has shoes. So the 300% rule is effective. And I said it is difficult to buy into, is difficult for tech to buy into, especially if you haven't been doing it the whole time. But once you do it, the average repair order automatically goes up. That means you have less cards that you have to bring in to hit the KPIs.
Tonnika Haynes: You can explain to the technicians, Hey, if you go through this car thoroughly, and if I do my job, then that means you have less cards to get on the lift every day. So instead of working on 10 cards to make your goal, you can work on four, you can work on five. And so I think everybody just needs to get on board, study it, understand it, and do it right, and it'll work out for you in the long run.
Jimmy Lea: Oh, so true. 
Jennifer Hulbert: You're also ma helping the customer make an educated decision on what investment to make in their vehicle. So if you're only giving them the bare minimum and say that the estimate is $800, but they really need. $8,000 worth of work, is it, should they put the $800 into that vehicle or would they make a different decision?
Jennifer Hulbert: Or is this something that they want to last? So, you know, they are gonna make that investment so they have that long-term vehicle and they don't need to purchase something else. 
Jimmy Lea: I, I love that 300% rule where everything gets, you take a picture of every recommendation, you estimate everything, and you present everything to the client, the customer.
Jimmy Lea: That customer's gonna make a much better decision about their vehicle and being safe on the road. Or, Jennifer, to your point, am I gonna put. $20,000 into a car that's worth 1200? Well, it depends. Is it sentimental? Yes. I'm gonna put 20,000 into it. Is it not applicable? Yeah. Okay. We just paperweight that sucker and let's go get a new vehicle.
Jimmy Lea: John, I have a question for you about the 300% rule in Tekmetric. What reporting do you have in Tekmetric that helps us to know if a technician and a service advisor working together is presenting everything to the customer? 
John Phelps: A few of them actually. So one, one of the things they were talking about earlier and being able to dive in I didn't mention this, but it's coming to now, is the real time reporting.
John Phelps: Being able to see what's happened before it actually closes. So if a correction needs to be made. You don't have to wait for the fire to burn down the house. You can put the fire out before it gets started, and so there's the realtime service writer report. Then the realtime technician report, and it allows you to kind of see things as they're happening, as they're being estimated.
John Phelps: Now, we've talked a lot about the digital vehicle inspection that DVI and to go back on why people say, yes, I gave you the four main things of what it rolls up into, but the most common feature mentioned. Is the DVI, is that D vehicle digital vehicle inspection. And within the inspection report, which falls under the employee reports, it allows you to see and Tanika already kind of mentioned this, I believe, was that, well, how many vehicles do we have?
John Phelps: How many of those actually have a DVI on them? How many of those are completed? How many of those were sent? How many of those were viewed by your customers? And then you can see the breakdown of how many pictures. How many average findings per tech, per advisor, per inspection. If you have multiple in there, you can see which ones are most effective, most impactful, and it really allows you, like I said, to kind of drill down and see, okay this DVI is my default one, of course is gonna be the most common.
John Phelps: However, we're supposed to do some extra checks on any car over 150. We're not seeing that being by this advisor, but it this. 12 pictures and their a RO is through the roof compared to this technician's adding six. And it's really kinda the four corners in the driver door open. It's the default pictures that we have.
John Phelps: Right? And so those, that inspection report is one of those that really allows you to inspect what you expect. Just so happens to be called the inspection report you know, setting those goals. A lot of times we have the outcome based goals. I want to be here, but really it's the performance side that allows us to achieve those goals.
John Phelps: And these are the reports that allow you to see the performance as opposed to just, well, let's just see what the outcome is at the end of the month. I wanna see what the performance is as we go. So can I can make. End game adjustments, whether that be in the RO throughout the day, throughout the week, or the month.
John Phelps: It allows you to make those adjustments and really start to improve that before it is too late. 
Jimmy Lea: John, I'm gonna put you on the spot here a little bit with pictures and DVI do. You, are there natural breaks that you see in patterns that says hey, if a technician takes 12 pictures, his average repair order probably is in this range.
Jimmy Lea: If he takes 20 or 40 or 60. Do you see a, an absolute correlation between the number of pictures in the average repair order? 
John Phelps: Absolutely. More than eight is, is that number now, within that inspection report it breaks it down by those picture ranges and I wanna say it says zero to six, six to 12, 12 to 15 or 18 or something like that.
John Phelps: And it gives you that bar graph. An a RO bar or line graph I should say, of, well, here's my a RO. And then when I get up to the eight, to 12 to 15 pictures, and then when I get down to when I get 20, 20, all means different shops have different processes. Talk to shops that say, I require 30 pictures. Now, when you aggregate the data, you're gonna see those peaks a little bit earlier and it really is that greater than eight.
John Phelps: In fact, we did a study, and it was a few years ago now, but what we found was when there's at least eight pictures, eight pictures or more, and it is sent to the customer at least 50% of the time, right? Take all the pictures you want. If you don't send it, they never see it. Yeah, if you send everything but take zero pictures, you're not doing yourself any good.
John Phelps: So if it has at least eight pictures and sent to the customers at least 50% of the time, shops that did versus shops that didn't saw $106 higher ticket, a RO was $106 higher for those that met that criteria versus those that didn't. So that sweet spot that we see is, let's just say six to 15. In that peak, in that a RO for the number of attachments.
John Phelps: And it is, it does say attachments because you can add videos, you can add PDFs as well. But pictures is the most common and it is that nice mid range of, call it six to 15. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. When I was pounding on this DVI drum standard pictures to take on every single vehicle, whether it's the four corners, the engine, the door.
Jimmy Lea: The license plate. You've got some standard pictures that you want to take, and anytime a technician makes a recommendation, take a picture. Take a picture. Take a picture. It will sell it Every single time. There was a shop I was talking to and we were doing a little bit of a DVI audit and here and a DVI came in from the tech and we're looking through there and I says, Hey, look right there.
Jimmy Lea: He's the technician's recommending a battery that a battery needs to be replaced. That it of 660 cold cranking amp, it was at 300. And the tech didn't take a picture. And I says, Hey, tell the tech to take. And this had already gone to the client, the customer. The customer declined the battery because what do we know about cold cranking amp?
Jimmy Lea: It's middle of the summer. I don't need cold cranking amp. It's not cold. Take a picture to show the customer. And they took a picture of the little report that comes out of the battery tester. Sent it to the customer, and the customer says, oh, yes, absolutely no. Now I understand I am borderline gonna be stuck on the, in the parking lot somewhere, not able to start my car because it's not gonna start.
John Phelps: What I've always found is people's biggest objections, right? The most common objections we hear really boil down to one of two things, time or money. But when you take that money piece and you dig into it a little bit more, it's not necessarily the cost, it's the value or the lack thereof. And if a customer doesn't see that value, and that's brought to them by information and benefits, right?
John Phelps: I need to have the information so that I can see the benefit. And if that's the case, the value outweighs the cost. Therefore, money is an objection should really be about, they just simply don't have it, versus they don't see the value in it. If it were to boil down to that, and that's what this allows.
John Phelps: We've talked about the education and the transparency. It's providing that information. They don't need to know how to replace it themselves. They don't need to know how the inner workings of the alternator actually work, but to know what it does and the importance of it to the running of a vehicle.
John Phelps: That alone allows them the educational piece, that information to see the benefits and allows them to say yes to the repair. Nice. And 
Jennifer Hulbert: sometimes seeing those benefits is not even connecting with the customer. It's all digital, which to, to me, in, in my generation I love that personal connection, so I want to have that call and that explanation, but I.
Jennifer Hulbert: The newer generation sometimes don't like that. So if they can see the reason why on the DVI and then receive the estimate digitally, then they can make a decision and have very little interaction with the shop. So we have that ability to do both. 
John Phelps: I had a shop owner tell me that they did 83% of their business, their dollars.
John Phelps: Touchless. Wow. Text message. That was it. Now we're not gonna say we're gonna eliminate the phone calls, but it may help to increase that efficiency if you can text back and forth to set up the phone call as opposed to the four time phone tag back and forth throughout the day. And then it's too late in the day to order parts, can't get the card done.
John Phelps: All that possibly could have been done via text. So hopefully we can increase that efficiency with the phone calls. And in some cases, with some customers, you can actually eliminate it because. It can be as touchless as you want it to be. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, it's so true. I mean, Tanika was talking about the university parents that are around the hospital.
Jimmy Lea: There's so many professionals where they can't check their phone, they can't take a phone call, but they can check for a text message and from that text message, respond, yes, fix everything, do it all, whatever that case may be. That texting, I didn't know as high as 83% That is. That's really high. I think 
John Phelps: That, that was the highest side scene.
John Phelps: I will say that. But even now and you know, we've got, obviously you can text the inspection with the pictures and videos. You can text the. Then you can, number one, you can capture a digital signature. And number two, if you do have our payment processor and our buy now pay later, they can actually apply for a buy now pay later on the estimate itself.
John Phelps: So granted, you've gotta set the expectation with your customers. I will be texting this to you because you can send 'em text all day if they don't know who it's coming from or what it's about. Those can go unread. Otherwise, if you're setting that expectation and letting them know is if this is the preferred way, we could do everything via text.
John Phelps: They can send you pictures, you can reciprocate, they can approve, sign their name, even apply for financing options all while they're sitting in a meeting. Hopefully still paying attention to the meeting though. 
Jimmy Lea: So true. Hey, congratulations, Tim. Tim went up $300. $1,700 average repair order. That's pretty dang good.
Jimmy Lea: Gotta love that. It's, it is awesome to be able to witness that, John as you're standing on the bench or on the sidelines watching the game happen in front of you, you get a see and witness all this shop greatness. 
John Phelps: The success stories are awesome. 
Jimmy Lea: Oh they cer they absolutely are.
Jimmy Lea: Tanika has a theme that she likes to run in her shop, which is do it right. So, John, I wanna hear from you what does do it right mean to you? Because we're gonna land this plane here, John, and then Jennifer Ika will let you close it out. But with the institute, we are here to help you as a shop. As a shop owner.
Jimmy Lea: You're a part of our industry. We are part of your industry. We wanna lock arms with you and help you meet you where you are, so we can help you to progress, to grow, to get better. Let's lock arms. This is a crazy storm we're in. No two ships are the same, but if we lock arms together, we will not leave anybody behind.
Jimmy Lea: We will all make it together. At the institute, we have coaching and training for advisors, managers, shop owners. We have group environments that helps you to see other peers. What might be a mountain to you is really a mole hill. In that group environment, we can help you to discover ways around that mole hill very quickly, which might be a mountain to you, but to others, they already did that on Tuesday.
Jimmy Lea: So we can get together and take care of that business, John, to you do it right. 
John Phelps: Remembering who you're doing it for. You know, at Tekmetric we do have the automotive background. I saw somebody in the chat post about Sunil story and kind of how it got started. I mentioned my background is entirely automotive.
John Phelps: For the last two decades, I've done nothing but be in the automotive industry. That being said, I don't have all the good ideas. We see it all the time with shop owners or even just those that work in the shop, they've worked at other places. They come in with their own ideas and those processes tend to change a little bit over time for the better of that individual and maybe for the better of the shop, but not necessarily for the betterment of their end user, their customer.
John Phelps: And if we as Tekmetric and our shops can continue to keep. Who it's for in mind for us, it's for the shop owner, but we also have to think through that and for your customers as well, because if we do only things for you, it may lose contact with your customer. So doing it right to me is gonna mean keeping in mind who you're actually doing it for.
John Phelps: Keeping that message the same in driving to improve that. We've said it in early on and continue to say it. Sunil started out with Tekmetric with a vision to introduce a technology shift in the automotive industry, right? We've got the cars that are half computer, we've got consumers that can do everything on their phone, and a lot of times in the industry we're still trying to get to 1999.
John Phelps: Y 2K is upcoming in some of our minds. So we've got to think in advancement of all that and get ahead of that curve with in mind who we're doing it for so that we continue to strive in the right direction. 
Jimmy Lea: Yeah, it's paramount that you partner with the right people so that even though you may be technology adverse, you partner with the right people that help you get there in the right direction.
Jimmy Lea: Jennifer, what does it mean to you here? Do it right. 
Jennifer Hulbert: Well, the core values of the institute is to build a better business, helps build a better life, and build a better industry. So. As a group facilitator, that is my number one goal is to help make our shop owners businesses better, which in turn makes their individual lives better, which in turn enhances the industry.
Jennifer Hulbert: So software programs and management systems like Tekmetric make that. Simpler to do because we are able to identify areas that need improvement and to help our clients and our group members to take that next level and that next step. So, doing it right is just utilizing all the information that we have and then.
Jennifer Hulbert: Encouraging and sometimes pushing right Tanika members to make those improvements, to see that there are better profitability angles to go and work towards. And just do it with a lot of fun. So Jimmy, you mentioned locking arms and supporting each other. And that's exactly what our group process and our coaching does for our individual clients.
Jimmy Lea: Beautiful. Yeah I agree. Locking arms is the best way for us to do that, and we'll do it together. Tanika, this is your mantra. This is your motto. Do it right. You have said it to me quite a few times in the past. Past webinars. Past conferences and trade shows. What does that mean to you? To do it right in your shop?
Jimmy Lea: Hold on, sister. You're muted.
Tonnika Haynes: Am I here? 
Jimmy Lea: Yep. 
Tonnika Haynes: Yeah. So I was saying for me, second generation shop owner one of the things everybody knows that's important to me is make my father happy. So I want to continue to do things right so our name lives on in a positive way, and I also have to get it re ready for the next generation. My kids, not only is it about my family, it's about my community.
Tonnika Haynes: We're responsible for. For fixing and keeping our customers safe on the road. And these are the same people that I have to drive beside every day. I have to see them in the grocery store. I'm responsible for keeping them and their families safe. I have to do it right. I will see them in the grocery store, I'll see them at church.
Tonnika Haynes: So, my, my father's name is on that building. So doing it right is the only way that it can be done. There's no second guessing it. And so with the help of the institute and Tekmetric I feel like I'm getting. Writer and writer every time. You know? So the more that I learn and the more that I'm coach with the institute and everybody, Cecil, you, Jimmy.
Tonnika Haynes: I'm just thinking I can't, can I get any more writer? 
Jimmy Lea: And then we discover. We discover new levels of writer, 
Tonnika Haynes: new levels of rightness is happening here. It's righteous. How about that one? 
Jimmy Lea: Oh, I love it. I love it. I love it. I love that we're getting there and you know, if you're seeing this information, you find value in what you're seeing.
Jimmy Lea: We are the institute. We are here to meet you where you are, to help you grow. If you wanna work with a coach like Jennifer, that's gonna hold you accountable and show you what the possibilities are of that writer, of that better way of operating, a better way of doing things, we Woo. Did you see that? I kicked my camera?
Jimmy Lea: We would love to partner with you on this so that we become that value Partner with you. Let's lock arms. Let's lock arms together. We analyze different. Softwares, different programs in the industry to bring to you the what we feel is a best of industry program and Tekmetric is one of the best that we have in the industry.
Jimmy Lea: They're doing a phenomenal job to that. We applaud you, John. We applaud your team. We applaud Check Tekmetric and where you're going. We appreciate that, the reporting that's available. It definitely helps our coaches. It helps our shop owners to be the best that they can possibly be. 
John Phelps: Well, I'll take none of the credit, but I will absolutely accept it on our behalf.
Jimmy Lea: Yeah. And send the message, make sure everybody knows how much we appreciate what you're doing and the difference that they are making as an industry for our industry. Absolutely. That's awesome. With that, thank you very much for joining us today, Tanika. Thank you for joining, Jennifer. Thank you, John.
Jimmy Lea: Thank you. And with that, we are gonna call this a very good day. Thank you. And we'll see you again soon.